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If the public refuse to ratify the new deal, then HMG must either a) revoke, b) extend, c) do a new new deal, or d) exit with no deal. A) is politically appalling, b) and c) may be rejected by the EU, and d) would be the only one left.Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
It appears that Labour have successfully hoodwinked the second ref brigade into believing that their proposal is an actual second referendum. Got to hand it to them!0
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No no no no ...viewcode said:
If the public refuse to ratify the new deal, then HMG must either a) revoke, b) extend, c) do a new new deal, or d) exit with no deal. A) is politically appalling, b) and c) may be rejected by the EU, and d) would be the only one left.Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
The ratification vote will be:
Should the UK...
Leave the EU with this deal
or
Remain in the EU0 -
Not really clear what the latest version of Kyle-Wilson does for Tories since it no longer seems to contain the quid-pro-quo of passing TMay's deal?0
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Where does it say that?Benpointer said:
No no no no ...viewcode said:
If the public refuse to ratify the new deal, then HMG must either a) revoke, b) extend, c) do a new new deal, or d) exit with no deal. A) is politically appalling, b) and c) may be rejected by the EU, and d) would be the only one left.Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
The ratification vote will be:
Should the UK...
Leave the EU with this deal
or
Remain in the EU
The proposal is "leave the EU with this deal? Y/N"0 -
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew0 -
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
Sent out in the Gov't leaflet to every household before purdah "This is your decision, the Gov't will implement it".MikeSmithson said:
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
That comment sums it up really. A profound misreading of the relationship between parliament and the people by reducing it to that of a dodgy salesman exploiting a gullible pensioner.MikeSmithson said:
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
The hard choice was made in 1975 which you choose to ignore.isam said:
The country already made the hard choice. So has the government to a degree... parliament is making the easy choice of ignoring it and hoping it will go away, like a smoker deciding not to give up after the doctor told him to... it will catch up with them in the endIanB2 said:The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?
Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.0 -
Clearly it should be leave with or without the deal; the decision to leave has already been made.MaxPB said:
Where does it say that?Benpointer said:
No no no no ...viewcode said:
If the public refuse to ratify the new deal, then HMG must either a) revoke, b) extend, c) do a new new deal, or d) exit with no deal. A) is politically appalling, b) and c) may be rejected by the EU, and d) would be the only one left.Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
The ratification vote will be:
Should the UK...
Leave the EU with this deal
or
Remain in the EU0 -
Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.0
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Totally agree - they are all an abject failure to our nationisam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
Make sure one substitutes out the word Twins AFTER the word Goblet. Far better that way round.JosiasJessop said:And also SeanT's books.
I particularly liked: "Kissing Cum", "Millions of women are waiting to meet cum", and "The marks of cum"
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is us without any alcohol.0 -
"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"MikeSmithson said:
The hard choice was made in 1975 which you choose to ignore.isam said:
The country already made the hard choice. So has the government to a degree... parliament is making the easy choice of ignoring it and hoping it will go away, like a smoker deciding not to give up after the doctor told him to... it will catch up with them in the endIanB2 said:The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?
Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.
The European Community doesn't exist any more.0 -
Yeah, I expect a lot of the payroll vote will now come out against.edmundintokyo said:Not really clear what the latest version of Kyle-Wilson does for Tories since it no longer seems to contain the quid-pro-quo of passing TMay's deal?
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The Brexits on offer are already of the lite, vegetarian and vegan varieties. Parliament won't allow the 3000 calorie full english cooked in a vat of lard on the basis it might clog our arteries.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
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It is a convention in this country, and most successful societies, families or firms, that promises are kept. The government promised the result of the referendum would be enacted.MikeSmithson said:
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
The number of Liberal Democrat MPs returned in the 2015 election shows what happens when politicians adopt a carefree attitude to solemn commitments. The public don’t like it.0 -
Yeah, surely they were hoping for government support in order to get the WA over the line. Without that it's a weird yes/no question on some undefined deal. I'm not sure if the MPs are that idiotic, though I'm sure they will prove me wrong.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
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I agree but it is how the EU elections are mandated by the HOC by the 12th Aprildixiedean said:
Which the public may not like. But politicians do. They like elections. They also like well-paid jobs for the party faithful. Not convinced it is an insurmountable hurdle.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The idea a second referendum will feature in any GE post 12th April assumes we will have sitting MEPsPulpstar said:Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...
If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alteirnative is the Tory status quo.
Besides. If we are still in, we should have representatives. To not have would be the worst of all outcomes.
Expect fireworks once the public realise what is happening
And of course your last sentence cannot happen0 -
Not allowed to change our minds? An odd stance to take.MikeSmithson said:
The hard choice was made in 1975 which you choose to ignore.isam said:
The country already made the hard choice. So has the government to a degree... parliament is making the easy choice of ignoring it and hoping it will go away, like a smoker deciding not to give up after the doctor told him to... it will catch up with them in the endIanB2 said:The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?
Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.0 -
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.0 -
Well said. Come the next election it will be time to vote accordingly... We'll have our day of reckoning.isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
Thylacineydoethur said:
Or perhaps as an Aurochs?kle4 said:
I feel like the poor dodo gets overmentioned as far as extinct, flightless birds go. Perhaps it could be dead as a great auk instead?bigjohnowls said:
#CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMOBig_G_NorthWales said:To sum up.
The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline
TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones
The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today
So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision
No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April0 -
What was the 1975 hard choice?MikeSmithson said:
The hard choice was made in 1975 which you choose to ignore.isam said:
The country already made the hard choice. So has the government to a degree... parliament is making the easy choice of ignoring it and hoping it will go away, like a smoker deciding not to give up after the doctor told him to... it will catch up with them in the endIanB2 said:The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?
Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.
0 -
It is perfectly legitimate to point out that legally there was no commitment, but equally it is pretty silly to pretend that therefore it should be easy or simple to disregard the referendum. Revokers and remainers have always known this, hence why for a long time plenty pretended they were not seeking remain all along, and why even now when people are honest about such things, most are still seeking the cover of an additional democratic mandate to counter that of the 2016 vote - because they are not so blase as to act like the lack of legal obligation is irrelevant, even though the argument many use, that any leave is terrible, would suggest that revocation should be used if that is how they feel, and face the consequenes at a GE, rather than risk any form of deal at a referendum again.isam said:
That comment sums it up really. A profound misreading of the relationship between parliament and the people by reducing it to that of a dodgy salesman exploiting a gullible pensioner.MikeSmithson said:
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
To the extent that plenty of people assume any fanfiction is sexual in nature.Sean_F said:
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.
I'm sure I heard of a popular Harry Potter fanfic which is literally longer than the series itself, which is impressive given it is not a short series.0 -
Labour knows the main effect of revocation or any sort of referendum will be to absolubtely crucify the Tories. Hence why they're pushing it !MaxPB said:
Yeah, surely they were hoping for government support in order to get the WA over the line. Without that it's a weird yes/no question on some undefined deal. I'm not sure if the MPs are that idiotic, though I'm sure they will prove me wrong.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
0 -
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew0 -
The petition is still getting about 180 signatures per minute.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840 -
You measure to the withers I believe, so without the horn.Pro_Rata said:
Does one rank unicorns by height with or without the horn?TudorRose said:
May doesn't do consensus.solarflare said:
Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.IanB2 said:The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.
Corbyn doesn't do consensus.
The SNP doesn't do consensus.
Ranking unicorns by height won't solve anything.
Besides, judging by height is ridiculous, since proper unicorn judgement should be on the ostentatiousness of the horn alone. All about that horn.0 -
Harry Potter And The Methods of Rationality is an enormous fanfic, which quite a few people prefer to the original.kle4 said:
To the extent that plenty of people assume any fanfiction is sexual in nature.Sean_F said:
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.
I'm sure I heard of a popular Harry Potter fanfic which is literally longer than the series itself, which is impressive given it is not a short series.
Most fanfic (of any genre) is horrible, but a small percentage is very good, and another small percentage is so bad it's good.0 -
But that's why the government will never revoke. I'd stop being a Tory voter the next minute along with 80% of the rest of them.Pulpstar said:
Labour knows the main effect of revocation or any sort of referendum will be to absolubtely crucify the Tories. Hence why they're pushing it !MaxPB said:
Yeah, surely they were hoping for government support in order to get the WA over the line. Without that it's a weird yes/no question on some undefined deal. I'm not sure if the MPs are that idiotic, though I'm sure they will prove me wrong.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
Anyway, the proposal is a yes/no on the deal question not deal/remain. A no vote simply brings us back to this point.0 -
Why on God's green earth is Huw Merriman supporting Kyle-Wilson, I haven't seen him remain-rebel in any divisions so far.0
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Presumably, although once you've considered the point that a deal will need 'confirmation' I don't see how one justifies disagreeing with 'confirming' any deal. They haven't done the former yet, of course.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
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This is all a making of Tory party internal politics...one of the most disingenuous statements is to bring other parties into it like they have equal culpability....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Totally agree - they are all an abject failure to our nationisam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
The Tories got into this mess..they need to get us out, and not at the expense of making poor people poorer/ or our public services worse funded...
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Let’s not forget My Immortal.Sean_F said:
Harry Potter And The Methods of Rationality is an enormous fanfic, which quite a few people prefer to the original.kle4 said:
To the extent that plenty of people assume any fanfiction is sexual in nature.Sean_F said:
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.
I'm sure I heard of a popular Harry Potter fanfic which is literally longer than the series itself, which is impressive given it is not a short series.
Most fanfic (of any genre) is horrible, but a small percentage is very good, and another small percentage is so bad it's good.
0 -
Given the way Parliament is behaving towards the people why shouldn't we have an "appalling and unsuitable" character as PM? Why not Boris? Why not Jezza? Why not Farage?anothernick said:
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew
Nothing can be any worse than the betrayal Parliament is inflicting at the moment so yeah... Whatever the consequences are that flow from what it currently going on, the establishment will just have to suck it up.
And I would say things can and probably will get a lot worse than Boris Johnson being Prime Minister in the end.0 -
I do wonder how many have twigged we are not leaving on Friday yet? That Rubicon has been crossed with relatively little fuss. Suspect all other rivers may be forded a little easier now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but it is how the EU elections are mandated by the HOC by the 12th Aprildixiedean said:
Which the public may not like. But politicians do. They like elections. They also like well-paid jobs for the party faithful. Not convinced it is an insurmountable hurdle.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The idea a second referendum will feature in any GE post 12th April assumes we will have sitting MEPsPulpstar said:Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...
If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alteirnative is the Tory status quo.
Besides. If we are still in, we should have representatives. To not have would be the worst of all outcomes.
Expect fireworks once the public realise what is happening
And of course your last sentence cannot happen
It really is mind-boggling that it is March 26 and we still have no clue what is happening.0 -
I predicted earlier (half-joking) that we might soon see some Tories hoping for the Kyle/Wilson referendum between May's Deal and Remain. If they realise that May's deal is the hardest Brexit on offer, and that even that will only go through with a referendum clause.Pulpstar said:Why on God's green earth is Huw Merriman supporting Kyle-Wilson, I haven't seen him remain-rebel in any divisions so far.
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Sure, but all but six Tories will vote against (and probably more Labour MP's would vote against than Tories vote in favour). Both motions seem likely to get the Tories off the hook. Either they'll be defeated, or they'll pass in the face of United Tory opposition, and a very weak Labour government will have to try to implement them.Pulpstar said:
Labour knows the main effect of revocation or any sort of referendum will be to absolubtely crucify the Tories. Hence why they're pushing it !MaxPB said:
Yeah, surely they were hoping for government support in order to get the WA over the line. Without that it's a weird yes/no question on some undefined deal. I'm not sure if the MPs are that idiotic, though I'm sure they will prove me wrong.Sean_F said:Extending Kyle/Wilson to make *any* form of Brexit contingent on a second referendum must surely reduce its appeal.
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I've seen extracts - a masterpiece. In one sense.RoyalBlue said:
Let’s not forget My Immortal.Sean_F said:
Harry Potter And The Methods of Rationality is an enormous fanfic, which quite a few people prefer to the original.kle4 said:
To the extent that plenty of people assume any fanfiction is sexual in nature.Sean_F said:
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.
I'm sure I heard of a popular Harry Potter fanfic which is literally longer than the series itself, which is impressive given it is not a short series.
Most fanfic (of any genre) is horrible, but a small percentage is very good, and another small percentage is so bad it's good.0 -
GIN1138 said:
Given the way Parliament is behaving towards the people why shouldn't we have an "appalling and unsuitable" character as PM? Why not Boris? Why not Jezza? Why not Farage?anothernick said:
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew
Nothing can be any worse than the betrayal Parliament is inflicting at the moment so yeah... Whatever the consequences flow from what it currently going on, the establishment will just have to suck it up.
And I would say things can get and probably will get a lot worse than Boris Johnson being Prime Minister in the end.
Ultimately, I think history will point the finger at the likes of Farage and Johnson for this nonsense. I'm no Corbynista...but seriously you cannot drag him into the same metaphorical lows as the Brexit ideologues and their self serving henchmen...
0 -
Aided and abetted by a hopeless opposition but I do agree with your general pointtyson said:
This is all a making of Tory party internal politics...one of the most disingenuous statements is to bring other parties into it like they have equal culpability....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Totally agree - they are all an abject failure to our nationisam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
The Tories got into this mess..they need to get us out, and not at the expense of making poor people poorer/ or our public services worse funded...
0 -
I don't get the madness of those yearning for revoke.
I'm sure I recollect the notion that doing the same thing and expecting a different result was madness.
Revoke puts us in the position that caused us to choose to leave. How would revoke and remaining in the EU change that dynamic?0 -
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
On that we are at onedixiedean said:
I do wonder how many have twigged we are not leaving on Friday yet? That Rubicon has been crossed with relatively little fuss. Suspect all other rivers may be forded a little easier now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree but it is how the EU elections are mandated by the HOC by the 12th Aprildixiedean said:
Which the public may not like. But politicians do. They like elections. They also like well-paid jobs for the party faithful. Not convinced it is an insurmountable hurdle.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The idea a second referendum will feature in any GE post 12th April assumes we will have sitting MEPsPulpstar said:Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...
If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alteirnative is the Tory status quo.
Besides. If we are still in, we should have representatives. To not have would be the worst of all outcomes.
Expect fireworks once the public realise what is happening
And of course your last sentence cannot happen
It really is mind-boggling that it is March 26 and we still have no clue what is happening.0 -
I remember doing a reading with friends for which we took it in turns to read chapters. We had to stop because some people were crying with laughter.kle4 said:
I've seen extracts - a masterpiece. In one sense.RoyalBlue said:
Let’s not forget My Immortal.Sean_F said:
Harry Potter And The Methods of Rationality is an enormous fanfic, which quite a few people prefer to the original.kle4 said:
To the extent that plenty of people assume any fanfiction is sexual in nature.Sean_F said:
The Goblet of Cum sounds like the sort of thing you'd be offered at one of Caligula's parties.SandyRentool said:
I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!JosiasJessop said:
Off-topic:dixiedean said:
Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...FF43 said:
One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:solarflare said:Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?
Malthouse Compromise
Chequers Plan
Letwin Amendment
Norway Option
Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
Harry Potter and the Deathly ...
Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ...
As it happens, there's a huge cottage industry of fanfics dedicated to pornographic "reinterpretations" of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Frozen, My Little Pony etc.
I'm sure I heard of a popular Harry Potter fanfic which is literally longer than the series itself, which is impressive given it is not a short series.
Most fanfic (of any genre) is horrible, but a small percentage is very good, and another small percentage is so bad it's good.0 -
The assumption is enough people will have been worn out by the Brexit process that they will just put up with it from now on. But I think the ongoing situation will be bitter and unhelpful for the wider EU.philiph said:I don't get the madness of those yearning for revoke.
I'm sure I recollect the notion that doing the same thing and expecting a different result was madness.
Revoke puts us in the position that caused us to choose to leave. How would revoke and remaining in the EU change that dynamic?
In fairness, there are a lot more people effusive in their support for the EU and a european identity than 3 years ago.0 -
I feel sure that if there was one thing that Leave voters in Hartlepool really wanted it was for the government to spend $16 million on a penthouse apartment for a senior UK civil servant in New York to live in while pursuing post-Brexit trade deals. With a couple of 'staff bedrooms' smaller than the master bedroom's walk in wardrobe, natch. Liam Fox has probably already had a wank in the bath.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant
0 -
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
Plus, I'm sure it would have been totally fine if Remain had won 70:30 and Cameron had then said, "Actually, I've realised my renegotiation was total crap, so I'm invoking Article 50 tomorrow anyway. What are you all complaining about? The referendum was only advisory."kle4 said:
It is perfectly legitimate to point out that legally there was no commitment, but equally it is pretty silly to pretend that therefore it should be easy or simple to disregard the referendum. Revokers and remainers have always known this, hence why for a long time plenty pretended they were not seeking remain all along, and why even now when people are honest about such things, most are still seeking the cover of an additional democratic mandate to counter that of the 2016 vote - because they are not so blase as to act like the lack of legal obligation is irrelevant, even though the argument many use, that any leave is terrible, would suggest that revocation should be used if that is how they feel, and face the consequenes at a GE, rather than risk any form of deal at a referendum again.isam said:
That comment sums it up really. A profound misreading of the relationship between parliament and the people by reducing it to that of a dodgy salesman exploiting a gullible pensioner.MikeSmithson said:
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
Well now that just makes me wonder if there is a policy on such activities in a government owned property, even for the person assigned to live in it. Putting in an expenses claim for damaging furnishings during fun times, in off hours, might be frowned upon for instance.OnlyLivingBoy said:I feel sure that if there was one thing that Leave voters in Hartlepool really wanted it was for the government to spend $16 million on a penthouse apartment for a senior UK civil servant in New York to live in while pursuing post-Brexit trade deals. With a couple of 'staff bedrooms' smaller than the master bedroom's walk in wardrobe, natch. Liam Fox has probably already had a wank in the bath.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant0 -
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
I don’t think a Remainer like you is the best person to work out Leaver feelings, whether they live in Hartlepool or not.OnlyLivingBoy said:I feel sure that if there was one thing that Leave voters in Hartlepool really wanted it was for the government to spend $16 million on a penthouse apartment for a senior UK civil servant in New York to live in while pursuing post-Brexit trade deals. With a couple of 'staff bedrooms' smaller than the master bedroom's walk in wardrobe, natch. Liam Fox has probably already had a wank in the bath.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant0 -
No the point I'm making is now that Parliament in breaking the bond of trust with the people any and all consequences could flow from that.tyson said:GIN1138 said:
Given the way Parliament is behaving towards the people why shouldn't we have an "appalling and unsuitable" character as PM? Why not Boris? Why not Jezza? Why not Farage?anothernick said:
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew
Nothing can be any worse than the betrayal Parliament is inflicting at the moment so yeah... Whatever the consequences flow from what it currently going on, the establishment will just have to suck it up.
And I would say things can get and probably will get a lot worse than Boris Johnson being Prime Minister in the end.
Ultimately, I think history will point the finger at the likes of Farage and Johnson for this nonsense. I'm no Corbynista...but seriously you cannot drag him into the same metaphorical lows as the Brexit ideologues and their self serving henchmen...
We might have PM Boris but I don't think he'd be anywhere near as damaging to the establishment as PM Farage would... But then again a marxist PM and Chancellor in Corbyn would probably be worse for the establishment than either of them...
Whatever consequences flow from what's happening at Westminster right now they'll just have to suck it up.
MPs have made their choice. Voters will have to act accordingly...0 -
Time to go
In the middle of various medical issues and hoping for a good conclusion shortly .
I do hope everyone has a good nights rest
Good night folks0 -
But who will you vote for on this day of reckoning?GIN1138 said:
Well said. Come the next election it will be time to vote accordingly... We'll have our day of reckoning.isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.0 -
They may not react anywhere near as much as we think they should, whether to reward or punish various parties and individuals.GIN1138 said:
No the point I'm making is now that Parliament in breaking the bond of trust with the people any and all consequences could flow from that.tyson said:GIN1138 said:
Given the way Parliament is behaving towards the people why shouldn't we have an "appalling and unsuitable" character as PM? Why not Boris? Why not Jezza? Why not Farage?anothernick said:
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew
Nothing can be any worse than the betrayal Parliament is inflicting at the moment so yeah... Whatever the consequences flow from what it currently going on, the establishment will just have to suck it up.
And I would say things can get and probably will get a lot worse than Boris Johnson being Prime Minister in the end.
Ultimately, I think history will point the finger at the likes of Farage and Johnson for this nonsense. I'm no Corbynista...but seriously you cannot drag him into the same metaphorical lows as the Brexit ideologues and their self serving henchmen...
We might have PM Boris but I don't think he'd be anywhere near as damaging to the establishment as PM Farage would... But then again a marxist PM and Chancellor in Corbyn would probably be worse for the establishment than either of them...
Whatever consequences flow from what's happening at Westminster right now they'll just have to suck it up.
MPs have made their choice. Voters will have to act accordingly...0 -
Labour's hopeless and hapless lurch to Corbyn hasn't helped of course.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Aided and abetted by a hopeless opposition but I do agree with your general pointtyson said:
This is all a making of Tory party internal politics...one of the most disingenuous statements is to bring other parties into it like they have equal culpability....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Totally agree - they are all an abject failure to our nationisam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
The Tories got into this mess..they need to get us out, and not at the expense of making poor people poorer/ or our public services worse funded...
I just want Brexit to stop...it's like a slow motion nightmare that you cannot wake up from. You know it ends badly..and there is nothing you can do.
I know you are a little bit older BigG....I hope that this Brexit diversion doesn't eclipse your later experiences of UK politics. My very good friend has just been diagnosed with late stage terminal cancer...and his main gripe is that he will never be able to live through this fog
0 -
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
Have you?Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
I'm going from what has actually been proposed, a "confirmatory vote" that's a yes/no question. If it was a second referendum they would have said it.
As I said before, I'm impressed as to how well Labour have hoodwinked the second referendum supporters into thinking this would be what they want.0 -
That's like saying a good psychiatrist shouldn't be sane.RoyalBlue said:
I don’t think a Remainer like you is the best person to work out Leaver feelings, whether they live in Hartlepool or not.OnlyLivingBoy said:I feel sure that if there was one thing that Leave voters in Hartlepool really wanted it was for the government to spend $16 million on a penthouse apartment for a senior UK civil servant in New York to live in while pursuing post-Brexit trade deals. With a couple of 'staff bedrooms' smaller than the master bedroom's walk in wardrobe, natch. Liam Fox has probably already had a wank in the bath.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant0 -
Maybe they’ll go for a really radical change and vote in the TIGGIN1138 said:
No the point I'm making is now that Parliament in breaking the bond of trust with the people any and all consequences could flow from that.tyson said:GIN1138 said:
Given the way Parliament is behaving towards the people why shouldn't we have an "appalling and unsuitable" character as PM? Why not Boris? Why not Jezza? Why not Farage?anothernick said:
Well I agree it's hardly news. But it remains incredible that many Tories believe that such an appalling and manifestly unsuitable character is a serious candidate for PM.MikeSmithson said:
Hold the front pageanothernick said:
Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.IanB2 said:Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
" Boris is an unprincipled chancer " We never knew
Nothing can be any worse than the betrayal Parliament is inflicting at the moment so yeah... Whatever the consequences flow from what it currently going on, the establishment will just have to suck it up.
And I would say things can get and probably will get a lot worse than Boris Johnson being Prime Minister in the end.
Ultimately, I think history will point the finger at the likes of Farage and Johnson for this nonsense. I'm no Corbynista...but seriously you cannot drag him into the same metaphorical lows as the Brexit ideologues and their self serving henchmen...
We might have PM Boris but I don't think he'd be anywhere near as damaging to the establishment as PM Farage would... But then again a marxist PM and Chancellor in Corbyn would probably be worse for the establishment than either of them...
Whatever consequences flow from what's happening at Westminster right now they'll just have to suck it up.
MPs have made their choice. Voters will have to act accordingly...
0 -
Sorry to hear that Big G. Hope you fell better soon.Big_G_NorthWales said:Time to go
In the middle of various medical issues and hoping for a good conclusion shortly .
I do hope everyone has a good nights rest
Good night folks
0 -
Andrea Jenkyns on Newsnight saying she still won't back the deal even if Theresa May quits.0
-
The closest I can think of is the Greek referendum on the austerity deal. That was a stupid idea as well.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
It doesn't 'have' to be so. They can call it that, but if they have the votes they can legislate for whatever options and outcomes they want.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:0 -
It's Jezza for me at the next general election (as I think he's most likely to cause the most damage to Westminster and the especially the Tories)mwjfrome17 said:
But who will you vote for on this day of reckoning?GIN1138 said:
Well said. Come the next election it will be time to vote accordingly... We'll have our day of reckoning.isam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
After that I don't know. Maybe I'll never vote again...0 -
But this new version of Kyle-Wilson doesn't even agree in principle to this deal going to the referendum. It simply rules out any deal without one, which is not the same thing.Danny565 said:
I predicted earlier (half-joking) that we might soon see some Tories hoping for the Kyle/Wilson referendum between May's Deal and Remain. If they realise that May's deal is the hardest Brexit on offer, and that even that will only go through with a referendum clause.Pulpstar said:Why on God's green earth is Huw Merriman supporting Kyle-Wilson, I haven't seen him remain-rebel in any divisions so far.
0 -
That would come back to the Commons in a subsequent vote; I think Corbyn would have a hard time holding the line against including a Remain option.MaxPB said:
Have you?
I'm going from what has actually been proposed, a "confirmatory vote" that's a yes/no question. If it was a second referendum they would have said it.
As I said before, I'm impressed as to how well Labour have hoodwinked the second referendum supporters into thinking this would be what they want.0 -
Hope so too! Sleep well.Big_G_NorthWales said:Time to go
In the middle of various medical issues and hoping for a good conclusion shortly .
I do hope everyone has a good nights rest
Good night folks0 -
-
You are kind Tyson and my wife knows I will not give up on politics though I do say it everyday as I share your utter frustration, and just want it done, one way or another but not no dealtyson said:
Labour's hopeless and hapless lurch to Corbyn hasn't helped of course.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Aided and abetted by a hopeless opposition but I do agree with your general pointtyson said:
This is all a making of Tory party internal politics...one of the most disingenuous statements is to bring other parties into it like they have equal culpability....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Totally agree - they are all an abject failure to our nationisam said:The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
The Tories got into this mess..they need to get us out, and not at the expense of making poor people poorer/ or our public services worse funded...
I just want Brexit to stop...it's like a slow motion nightmare that you cannot wake up from. You know it ends badly..and there is nothing you can do.
I know you are a little bit older BigG....I hope that this Brexit diversion doesn't eclipse your later experiences of UK politics. My very good friend has just been diagnosed with late stage terminal cancer...and his main gripe is that he will never be able to live through this fog
So sorry to hear of your friend and it is so hard in those circumstances and hope your friend and their family find strength and support at this most dreadful time.
All the best Tyson0 -
How? If the legislation is for a confirmatory vote then the EC will struggle to write anything other than a yes/no question.kle4 said:
It doesn't 'have' to be so. They can call it that, but if they have the votes they can legislate for whatever options and outcomes they want.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
It's literally the best question to kick the can as both extremes can legitimately say that "no" means no deal/revoke.0 -
FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
It's a marginally less stupid idea than an actual second referendum (on the grounds that there are only two, not three (or more) options, and also that it can't actually make the situation worse, other than by wasting a lot of time we don't have).MaxPB said:
The closest I can think of is the Greek referendum on the austerity deal. That was a stupid idea as well.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
And, as you point out below, it satisfies Labour's need to continue triangulating between those who won't vote for it unless they carry out Brexit, and those who won't vote for it unless they stop it dead.0 -
Tbh, I think he'd be where Corbyn is sitting and we'd have got rid of May in 2017.Philip_Thompson said:0 -
That was stupid because one of the options wasn't really deliverable. I mean, the government could have done what it specified, but it would have been too obviously disastrous even for populist trots.MaxPB said:
The closest I can think of is the Greek referendum on the austerity deal. That was a stupid idea as well.
May-WA and Remain are definitely deliverable; I'm not sure about whatever Boles or Corbyn or whoever are cooking up.0 -
Which is why I think it will get less support than the earlier version would have done. It's drafted as an attempt to block Brexit, rather than to facilitate it.Philip_Thompson said:
But this new version of Kyle-Wilson doesn't even agree in principle to this deal going to the referendum. It simply rules out any deal without one, which is not the same thing.Danny565 said:
I predicted earlier (half-joking) that we might soon see some Tories hoping for the Kyle/Wilson referendum between May's Deal and Remain. If they realise that May's deal is the hardest Brexit on offer, and that even that will only go through with a referendum clause.Pulpstar said:Why on God's green earth is Huw Merriman supporting Kyle-Wilson, I haven't seen him remain-rebel in any divisions so far.
0 -
As usual when people begin sentences with the word clearly, what follows is not at all clear.RobD said:
Clearly it should be leave with or without the deal; the decision to leave has already been made.MaxPB said:
Where does it say that?Benpointer said:
No no no no ...viewcode said:
If the public refuse to ratify the new deal, then HMG must either a) revoke, b) extend, c) do a new new deal, or d) exit with no deal. A) is politically appalling, b) and c) may be rejected by the EU, and d) would be the only one left.Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
The ratification vote will be:
Should the UK...
Leave the EU with this deal
or
Remain in the EU0 -
The legislation was my point - they may not word it so in that, even if that would make sense if it was initially floated as confirmatory. But there's been a very careful softly softly approach, and careful use of words - it's why the words second referendum were not used as much as people's cote - and I frankly don't believe that people whose main intent is to see the country remain will ever pass legislation for a referendum without a remain option. Once the hurdle of a vote at all is managed, given the time it would then take to sort out I have very little doubt moves would not take place to strengthen any remain aspects in any act, or put them in.MaxPB said:
How? If the legislation is for a confirmatory vote then the EC will struggle to write anything other than a yes/no question.kle4 said:
It doesn't 'have' to be so. They can call it that, but if they have the votes they can legislate for whatever options and outcomes they want.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
It's literally the best question to kick the can as both extremes can legitimately say that "no" means no deal/revoke.0 -
Major elections this year:
Israel, 9th April
India, 11th April to 19th May
Finland, 14th April
Indonesia, 17th April
Spain, 28th April
South Africa, 8th May
Australia, by 18th May (House and Senate) or 2nd November (House only)
Belgium, 26th May
Denmark, by 17th June
Portugal, by 6th October
Greece, by 20th October
Canada, by 21st October
Argentina, 27th October
Ukraine, 27th October
Poland, by November
Sri Lanka, by 9th December
Switzerland, (2019)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elections_in_20190 -
I want Brexit so bad I wont vote for it for a million pounds and a kitten. I'll die in my britches before I vote for what I want. /gammonoffDanny565 said:Andrea Jenkyns on Newsnight saying she still won't back the deal even if Theresa May quits.
0 -
And how on Earth is SM+CU leaving the EU? Pathetic. Lets leave, but keep all the benefits and obligations and just say we've left.Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=19
That's the Mr Burns version of leaving the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Stf9IQyH7A0 -
Thanks Gin. At least I am not facing terminal cancer as Tyson's good friend isGIN1138 said:
Sorry to hear that Big G. Hope you fell better soon.Big_G_NorthWales said:Time to go
In the middle of various medical issues and hoping for a good conclusion shortly .
I do hope everyone has a good nights rest
Good night folks
As we get into our mid seventies and beyond we have to accept we face many health issues but we are so blessed that today's medical science helps us in a good way0 -
So Remain but without MPs having the guts to revoke?Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=19
Sounds about right for this lot...0 -
So the problem with this is: Say Parliament votes for SM+CU, then votes through the WA with a rider saying "we're totally doing SM+CU". Is TMay or any other Tory PM really going to go off and negotiate a deal that includes free movement? And once they do, how many of the people who are currently supporting it are going to keep supporting it?Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
Because Leavers and Remainers are now such separate subspecies that they have literally no insights into each others' motivations? I keep getting told that Brexit was a rebellion against 'elites' and reflected a desire to spend public money closer to home where it was most needed. So I surmised that Leave voters would be unhappy to see taxpayers' money spaffed up the wall on a grace and favour pad in New York where the Ferrero Rocher set could do cosy trade deals with K Street's finest. But with your superior insights into real people's thinking perhaps you can enlighten me, maybe this was really what they voted for.RoyalBlue said:
I don’t think a Remainer like you is the best person to work out Leaver feelings, whether they live in Hartlepool or not.OnlyLivingBoy said:I feel sure that if there was one thing that Leave voters in Hartlepool really wanted it was for the government to spend $16 million on a penthouse apartment for a senior UK civil servant in New York to live in while pursuing post-Brexit trade deals. With a couple of 'staff bedrooms' smaller than the master bedroom's walk in wardrobe, natch. Liam Fox has probably already had a wank in the bath.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant0 -
That seems a very high estimate for single market and customs union. I feel like if there was enough backing for that softest of soft brexits things would have played out differently before now.Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
304 is a lot of votes for FTA. I'm surprised that many, I'd have thought that was backed only by Tories and not all of them.edmundintokyo said:
So the problem with this is: Say Parliament votes for SM+CU, then votes through the WA with a rider saying "we're totally doing SM+CU". Is TMay or any other Tory PM really going to go off and negotiate a deal that includes free movement? And once they do, how many of the people who are currently supporting it going to keep supporting it?Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
There's no majority for a second referendum in parliament. That's why this is a "confirmatory vote" they are legislating for a yes/no question and it seems to have tricked second referendum types into believing that labour are actually in favour of one (which entirely what the proposal exists to do).kle4 said:
The legislation was my point - they may not word it so in that, even if that would make sense if it was initially floated as confirmatory. But there's been a very careful softly softly approach, and careful use of words - it's why the words second referendum were not used as much as people's cote - and I frankly don't believe that people whose main intent is to see the country remain will ever pass legislation for a referendum without a remain option. Once the hurdle of a vote at all is managed, given the time it would then take to sort out I have very little doubt moves would not take place to strengthen any remain aspects in any act, or put them in.MaxPB said:
How? If the legislation is for a confirmatory vote then the EC will struggle to write anything other than a yes/no question.kle4 said:
It doesn't 'have' to be so. They can call it that, but if they have the votes they can legislate for whatever options and outcomes they want.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
It's literally the best question to kick the can as both extremes can legitimately say that "no" means no deal/revoke.0 -
Is the plan to get the WA through then go to the country knowing this parliament can't bind the next one?edmundintokyo said:
So the problem with this is: Say Parliament votes for SM+CU, then votes through the WA with a rider saying "we're totally doing SM+CU". Is TMay or any other Tory PM really going to go off and negotiate a deal that includes free movement? And once they do, how many of the people who are currently supporting it going to keep supporting it?Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
FTA will do worse.Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=19
May’s Deal and CU will do better.
Second referendum will do worse.0 -
Revoke less popular than No Deal.kle4 said:
That seems a very high estimate for single market and customs union. I feel like if there was enough backing for that softest of soft brexits things would have played out differently before now.Foxy said:FWIW, Electoral maps have tommorows results:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1110602936353214464?s=190 -
Worth noting that ignoring the referendum has done Tsipras no harm.MaxPB said:
The closest I can think of is the Greek referendum on the austerity deal. That was a stupid idea as well.Endillion said:
It's a "confirmatory" referendum. It has to be a Yes/No question.Benpointer said:
Have you seen the wording of the ballot already?MaxPB said:
Where is remain an option, it's a yes/no approval ballot. The no option brings the process back to this step.Benpointer said:
If the public go apeshit they will vote for the HoC approved deal rather than Remain won't they!viewcode said:
That's insane. There was a referendum. Yes, I know it was only advisory but it should at least be tried. You can't set up an implausible series of events then say "Naah, let's not bother". The public would go apeshit and they would be right to do so.Benpointer said:
RevokeMaxPB said:
What happens if the people say no?Benpointer said:
How?viewcode said:
...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.williamglenn said:
-1 -
Any bets on how long it takes the Belgians to form a government?AndyJS said:Major elections this year:
Israel, 9th April
India, 11th April to 19th May
Finland, 14th April
Indonesia, 17th April
Spain, 28th April
South Africa, 8th May
Australia, by 18th May (House and Senate) or 2nd November (House only)
Belgium, 26th May
Denmark, by 17th June
Portugal, by 6th October
Greece, by 20th October
Canada, by 21st October
Argentina, 27th October
Ukraine, 27th October
Poland, by November
Sri Lanka, by 9th December
Switzerland, (2019)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elections_in_20190
