On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?
It is a convention in this country, and most successful societies, families or firms, that promises are kept. The government promised the result of the referendum would be enacted.
The number of Liberal Democrat MPs returned in the 2015 election shows what happens when politicians adopt a carefree attitude to solemn commitments. The public don’t like it.
But the Government which made that promise - David Cameron's - no longer exists!
HMG carries on whoever leads it.
Indeed so - but no Government is bound by its predecessors!
So if this government agrees to a customs union PD and then May resigns her successor can say we are leaving the customs union actually?
Election Maps UK forecasts CU, 2nd ref and FTA will all get more support than May's Deal but BINO SM and CU will do best of all and actually get a majority of 2
The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?
What was the point of holding it then, if REMAIN was the only answer that would be enacted? I'm not sure, but perhaps you can point us to some posts back in 2016 where you perhaps said that only REMAIN would be accepted, and LEAVE ignored?
This was meant to have been a week of national jubilation. It was meant to be the week when church bells were rung, coins struck, stamps issued and bonfires lit to send beacons of freedom from hilltop to hilltop. This was the Friday when Charles Moore’s retainers were meant to be weaving through the moonlit lanes of Sussex, half blind with scrumpy, singing Brexit shanties at the tops of their voices and beating the hedgerows with staves.
Looks like BDS is spreading among the LEAVE crew as well.....
On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
The Warren-Trump head-to-heads are pretty bad for Warren who is quite well-known. The Harris numbers don't tell you much since the voters generally have no idea who she is.
I have been laying all the usual suspects for next Tory leader on Betfair for some time. Mainly at overly generous prices, which I am sure many here have taken up!
Well, recently I've laid some of the longer prices, so I'm now finally all GREEN whoever wins. If it's anyone obvious, I win between £0-£10.
For many of the unconsidered outsiders, including Oliver "Cromwell" Letwin, I could win £4k+.
The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.
The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
Where in the legislation setting up the referendum did it say it would be acted upon?
It is a convention in this country, and most successful societies, families or firms, that promises are kept. The government promised the result of the referendum would be enacted.
The number of Liberal Democrat MPs returned in the 2015 election shows what happens when politicians adopt a carefree attitude to solemn commitments. The public don’t like it.
But the Government which made that promise - David Cameron's - no longer exists!
HMG carries on whoever leads it.
Indeed so - but no Government is bound by its predecessors!
So if this government agrees to a customs union PD and then May resigns her successor can say we are leaving the customs union actually?
That rather depends. A political promise made by a PM is not binding on a successor. To the extent that legal obligations have been incurred, it might be necessary to introduce Repeal legislation. Were this not so, no new Government could effectively reverse the policies or commitments of its predecessor.
On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
The Warren-Trump head-to-heads are pretty bad for Warren who is quite well-known. The Harris numbers don't tell you much since the voters generally have no idea who she is.
Harris is 1 of 2 Senators from the biggest state in the Union, hardly coming from nowhere
On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
The Warren-Trump head-to-heads are pretty bad for Warren who is quite well-known. The Harris numbers don't tell you much since the voters generally have no idea who she is.
Harris is 1 of 2 Senators from the biggest state in the Union, hardly coming from nowhere
Sometimes late has the same effect as never, so it us not always better
As I fear it will be in this case. Having so frequently voted against the government the ERG fanatics have removed from their hitherto loyal Tory Remain colleagues any obligation to not do the same...
On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
Name recognition: Biden was Vice President for eight years and Sanders ran last time in an extended battle against Hillary Clinton. The rest are new to most of the country.
This was meant to have been a week of national jubilation. It was meant to be the week when church bells were rung, coins struck, stamps issued and bonfires lit to send beacons of freedom from hilltop to hilltop. This was the Friday when Charles Moore’s retainers were meant to be weaving through the moonlit lanes of Sussex, half blind with scrumpy, singing Brexit shanties at the tops of their voices and beating the hedgerows with staves.
Looks like BDS is spreading among the LEAVE crew as well.....
Adonis...Grayling...
Lillico...Johnson....
Boris johnson is in the wrong job. He's creative, but ethically challenged, and intellectually undistinguished.
Sometimes late has the same effect as never, so it us not always better
As I fear it will be in this case. Having so frequently voted against the government the ERG fanatics have removed from their hitherto loyal Tory Remain colleagues any obligation to not do the same...
And those colleagues now have other horses to back.
An odd fair point, though. The results announcement is at 9 pm and it is likely to interrupt the debate on the A50 extension which will conclude with a later vote, maybe back to the same 10pm. Indeed if the ERG plays silly buggers it could be a late night for TND; he ain't going home early.
We should just be thankful they aren't voting in the small hours of the morning, as the same crisis in the 70s would have meant.
Wow. Has Theresa really now got both Rees-Mogg and Boris on her mantelpiece? But how on earth do they square that with their previous assertions that No Deal would be just fine and dandy and Theresa's deal is worse than Remain?
There is no practical route to No Deal with the HoC having taken control. That is how they can justify it. And it has been clear for a while that May's Shit Deal would not get renegotiated by May. And not by the HoC.
The ERG will fracture into oblivion. Send neither flowers nor donations.
I am glad they are coming round to the deal but actually I still believe your basic comment about No Deal is wrong. The HoC cannot force May to revoke short of a VoNC. Now of course they may do that but 'having taken control' does not rule out their being No Deal as long as they refuse to endorse an alternative. The EU has confirmed it will only deal with May for as long as she is PM so until she decides to revoke instead of No Deal the risk remains.
But I think that they would.
A bunch of senior Tories have said (many several times) that they would resign the Conservative Party if the government took us to no deal. There are likely to be a fair few backbenchers who would follow.
Now there is a possibility they are bluffing, of course, although on such a critical high profile and damaging issue I think this is low.
If they are going to leave their party and potentially their careers, why wouldn't they resign beforehand and then do everything they can to bring down the government and sink no deal? It's their chance to make a mark on history - which all politicians hanker for.
The alternatives are resigning afterwards and slinking away into the dark, or triggering a political realignment but when it is too late to change the course of events. If the realignment succeeded they might even finish in office presiding over the mess they had resigned in order to prevent.
The stakes are so high that I think a VONC and revocation are very likely if we are days from no deal.
It would have been amusing had they called their forum 'calamitous crash out no deal Brexit', just for some ironical fun.
The ERG strategy here is laid bare. Yet do they really seriously think Parliament as a whole, faced with that eventual choice, would go for no deal? Rather than say the same long delay their own PM almost just asked for?
On topic. I don't think Trumps insults make that much difference, but I too have written off Biden and Sanders as too old. Thats with 2 years before even taking office, and the Dems want two terms.
They have to beat Trump first and the only Democrats beating Trump in the polls are Biden and Sanders, Harris and Warren both lose to Trump. They could also pick a younger VP candidate like O'Rourke who could run for the second term
The Warren-Trump head-to-heads are pretty bad for Warren who is quite well-known. The Harris numbers don't tell you much since the voters generally have no idea who she is.
Harris is 1 of 2 Senators from the biggest state in the Union, hardly coming from nowhere
Comments
Election Maps UK forecasts CU, 2nd ref and FTA will all get more support than May's Deal but BINO SM and CU will do best of all and actually get a majority of 2
I'm not sure, but perhaps you can point us to some posts back in 2016 where you perhaps said that only REMAIN would be accepted, and LEAVE ignored?
Adonis...Grayling...
Lillico...Johnson....
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1110703035624423425
Well, recently I've laid some of the longer prices, so I'm now finally all GREEN whoever wins. If it's anyone obvious, I win between £0-£10.
For many of the unconsidered outsiders, including Oliver "Cromwell" Letwin, I could win £4k+.
Oliver's Army are on their way ....
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1110672621962694658
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1110342969050181637
These Tories have been so remarkably slow on the uptake.
We should just be thankful they aren't voting in the small hours of the morning, as the same crisis in the 70s would have meant.
A bunch of senior Tories have said (many several times) that they would resign the Conservative Party if the government took us to no deal. There are likely to be a fair few backbenchers who would follow.
Now there is a possibility they are bluffing, of course, although on such a critical high profile and damaging issue I think this is low.
If they are going to leave their party and potentially their careers, why wouldn't they resign beforehand and then do everything they can to bring down the government and sink no deal? It's their chance to make a mark on history - which all politicians hanker for.
The alternatives are resigning afterwards and slinking away into the dark, or triggering a political realignment but when it is too late to change the course of events. If the realignment succeeded they might even finish in office presiding over the mess they had resigned in order to prevent.
The stakes are so high that I think a VONC and revocation are very likely if we are days from no deal.
Or was....
The ERG strategy here is laid bare. Yet do they really seriously think Parliament as a whole, faced with that eventual choice, would go for no deal? Rather than say the same long delay their own PM almost just asked for?
Over half of voters had heard of Harris and Booker