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  • Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/the-16m-new-york-penthouse-fit-for-a-uk-civil-servant

    The government has bought a $15.9m (£12m) seven bedroom luxury New York apartment for a senior British civil servant charged with signing fresh trade deals in a post-Brexit world, the Guardian can reveal.

    The foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt oversaw the purchase of a 5,893 sq ft (574 sq metre) apartment as the official residence for Antony Phillipson, the UK trade commissioner for North America and consul general in New York.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    Which makes me wonder why Nicky Morgan signed it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Bercow will pick

    • Labour's Brexit Plan (CU & SMA)
    • Revoke A50
    • 2nd Referendum
    • Norway Plan (Common Market)
    • Malthouse Compromise
    • A No Deal Brexit

    Shouldn't Bercow pick everything? Every single unicorn should be on the table

    Time for everyone to lay all their cards on the table once and for all and lets see what the scoundrels have got...
    And woe betide them if they've taken us to this constitutional crisis and they STILL can't agree anything.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Bercow will pick

    • Labour's Brexit Plan (CU & SMA)
    • Revoke A50
    • 2nd Referendum
    • Norway Plan (Common Market)
    • Malthouse Compromise
    • A No Deal Brexit

    Shouldn't Bercow pick everything? Every single unicorn should be on the table

    Time for everyone to lay all their cards on the table once and for all and lets see what the scoundrels have got...
    We have a winner Methinks unless Govt whips against #CCU with 3 Tory proposers and 3 Blairite proposers.

    Clever Clever stuff from Corbyn again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited March 2019
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anything's possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Bercow will pick

    • Labour's Brexit Plan (CU & SMA)
    • Revoke A50
    • 2nd Referendum
    • Norway Plan (Common Market)
    • Malthouse Compromise
    • A No Deal Brexit

    Shouldn't Bercow pick everything? Every single unicorn should be on the table

    Time for everyone to lay all their cards on the table once and for all and lets see what the scoundrels have got...
    We have a winner Methinks unless Govt whips against #CCU with 3 Tory proposers and 3 Blairite proposers.

    Clever Clever stuff from Corbyn again.
    Of course its originally the proposal of Blairites all along that pushed hard on this until Corbyn belated adopted it.

    But sure, its all Corbyn's idea. Of course it is.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    GIN1138 said:

    Wonder if we'll see a Boris/Nicky "dream ticket" when Tess gets the boot? :D
    How can I live in a world where apparently sane people believe the Malthouse Compromise is an actual real thing?
    Because MPs have been given a task that is beyond their abilities and they are engaging in displacement activity until time runs out or they produce an impossible solution, at which point they will blame the EU.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    dixiedean said:

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...
    Off-topic:

    Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
    Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
    Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
    Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
    Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
    Harry Potter and the Deathly ...

    Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ... ;)
    Works for Indiana Jones of course

    Raiders of the lost ...
    Temple of ...
    The last ...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anythings possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
    So that rules out the Customs Union amendment then.
  • GIN1138 said:

    I think Bercow will pick

    • Labour's Brexit Plan (CU & SMA)
    • Revoke A50
    • 2nd Referendum
    • Norway Plan (Common Market)
    • Malthouse Compromise
    • A No Deal Brexit

    Shouldn't Bercow pick everything? Every single unicorn should be on the table

    Time for everyone to lay all their cards on the table once and for all and lets see what the scoundrels have got...
    We have a winner Methinks unless Govt whips against #CCU with 3 Tory proposers and 3 Blairite proposers.

    Clever Clever stuff from Corbyn again.
    You really are besotted with Corbyn and his unicorns.

    None of them will win - deadlock beckons
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Will May's deal be one of the options tomorrow?

    Or does Bercow rule it out as it's already been rejected?

    Or does it not need to be on the list tomorrow on the basis that the Govt will bring it back separately if / when it so desires?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anythings possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
    So that rules out the Customs Union amendment then.
    No, because that says we pass the existing WA and bind the government to seek a customs union as the long term trade deal. I disagree with it, but it is definitely possible as it requires changes to the political statement, not the WA.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeL said:

    Will May's deal be one of the options tomorrow?

    Or does Bercow rule it out as it's already been rejected?

    Or does it not need to be on the list tomorrow on the basis that the Govt will bring it back separately if / when it so desires?

    Everything tomorrow has been rejected already by the Commons, except Malthouse which was approved once already and straight revoke which has never been proposed yet. The indicative votes are giving a chance for everyone to address all issues at once, so ruling out any based on prior votes wouldn't make sense.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293



    None of them will win - deadlock beckons

    If that happens after all this then it's time the HMQ to step in and tell them in the name of god go!!!
  • Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019
    Barnesian said:
    How does he know it has the maximum prospect?

    Presumably there are many who want all other options to fail, so that one like this must be used.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    We head to the No Deal exit. At which point the shit hits the fan. The shit needs to fly before people get serious. Will it mean May's Deal? Perhaps. EU elections and long extension? Perhaps. Revoke Article 50? That would take courage, but it would be the only more or less definitive outcome. The other two are storing up problems and decisions for later.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anythings possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
    So that rules out the Customs Union amendment then.
    No, because that says we pass the existing WA and bind the government to seek a customs union as the long term trade deal. I disagree with it, but it is definitely possible as it requires changes to the political statement, not the WA.
    It says "any WA and PD negotiated with the EU must include, as a minimum, a commitment to negotiate a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU".

    The existing WA doesn't have that commitment so it would need to be renegotiated.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:
    How does he know it has the maximum prospect?
    He doesn't explain.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Bercow will pick

    • Labour's Brexit Plan (CU & SMA)
    • Revoke A50
    • 2nd Referendum
    • Norway Plan (Common Market)
    • Malthouse Compromise
    • A No Deal Brexit

    Shouldn't Bercow pick everything? Every single unicorn should be on the table

    Time for everyone to lay all their cards on the table once and for all and lets see what the scoundrels have got...
    We have a winner Methinks unless Govt whips against #CCU with 3 Tory proposers and 3 Blairite proposers.

    Clever Clever stuff from Corbyn again.
    Of course its originally the proposal of Blairites all along that pushed hard on this until Corbyn belated adopted it.

    But sure, its all Corbyn's idea. Of course it is.
    Ha Ha Ha Ha
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    Barnesian said:
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. It virtually guarantees no deal. I have comprehensively criticised Leavers for twisting on 18, and must criticise these misbegotten Remainers on the same grounds. This is juvenile behaviour. Just when you think MPs couldn't get lower in my estimation, they dig a deeper hole. Silly, petty, children.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    MikeL said:

    Will May's deal be one of the options tomorrow?

    Or does Bercow rule it out as it's already been rejected?

    Or does it not need to be on the list tomorrow on the basis that the Govt will bring it back separately if / when it so desires?

    Putting it on would be a potential spoiler from the Government's point of view.
  • GIN1138 said:



    None of them will win - deadlock beckons

    If that happens after all this then it's time the HMQ to step in and tell them in the name of god go!!!
    Yes all 650 of them
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    GIN1138 said:



    None of them will win - deadlock beckons

    If that happens after all this then it's time the HMQ to step in and tell them in the name of god go!!!
    Would be worth it to see her quote Cromwell like that!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    It seems increasingly clear that the ERG et al. are expecting May to come along to the '22 at 5pm tomorrow and pre-announce her resignation. Yet every previously trailed dramatic announcement from May (tbf the 2017 GE excepted) has resulted in yet another "nothing has changed" homily. I can't see such going down too well tomorrow?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anythings possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
    So that rules out the Customs Union amendment then.
    No, because that says we pass the existing WA and bind the government to seek a customs union as the long term trade deal. I disagree with it, but it is definitely possible as it requires changes to the political statement, not the WA.
    It says "any WA and PD negotiated with the EU must include, as a minimum, a commitment to negotiate a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU".

    The existing WA doesn't have that commitment so it would need to be renegotiated.
    Jezza has done the groundwork Eu will bite our hand off
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...
    Off-topic:

    Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
    Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
    Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
    Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
    Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
    Harry Potter and the Deathly ...

    Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ... ;)
    Works for Indiana Jones of course

    Raiders of the lost ...
    Temple of ...
    The last ...
    Which gives a whole new perspective to the 'He chose unwisely' scene ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    It seems increasingly clear that the ERG et al. are expecting May to come along to the '22 at 5pm tomorrow and pre-announce her resignation. Yet every previously trailed dramatic announcement from May (tbf the 2017 GE excepted) has resulted in yet another "nothing has changed" homily. I can't see such going down too well tomorrow?

    In fairness whenever it is trailed that the ERG or DUP might be wavering they never deliver either.
  • FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
    Big_G versus BigJohn

    Haha :lol:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    A rare point of agreement. Bercow needs to select only the proposals that have a realistic proposition of success. Anything that proposes changes to the WA needs to be ignored.
    Yes that's what I thought but then again... with a sufficient extension anythings possible (ooh-er!).

    I think you're right though - it would be a reasonable criteria for Bercow to use.
    So that rules out the Customs Union amendment then.
    No, because that says we pass the existing WA and bind the government to seek a customs union as the long term trade deal. I disagree with it, but it is definitely possible as it requires changes to the political statement, not the WA.
    It says "any WA and PD negotiated with the EU must include, as a minimum, a commitment to negotiate a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU".

    The existing WA doesn't have that commitment so it would need to be renegotiated.
    You could include it as an additional thing in another declaration. I think they've done that before with a different thing but I forget what.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    FF43 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    We head to the No Deal exit. At which point the shit hits the fan. The shit needs to fly before people get serious. Will it mean May's Deal? Perhaps. EU elections and long extension? Perhaps. Revoke Article 50? That would take courage, but it would be the only more or less definitive outcome. The other two are storing up problems and decisions for later.
    I am increasingly confident that if it comes down to a no deal v revoke choice, up against the wall, Parliament will revoke. May knows this too, hence the statement within her speech yesterday.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    GIN1138 said:



    None of them will win - deadlock beckons

    If that happens after all this then it's time the HMQ to step in and tell them in the name of god go!!!
    Yes all 650 of them
    Hey now, the Sinn Fein MPs are blameless at least.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    It also works for Brexit:

    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Brexit
    (What the Brexiteers promised)

    Harry Potter and the Chamber of Brexit
    (The HoC at the moment)

    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Brexit
    (Which we all are)

    Harry Potter and the Goblet of Brexit
    (Give us back our British Goblets!)

    Harry Potter and the Order of the Brexit
    (The new name for the ERG)

    Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Brexit
    (Because leavers are too old and decrepit to fight properly)

    Harry Potter and the Deathly Brexit
    (Enuf said).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited March 2019

    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    Which is why it is a wrecking amendment from MPs that are trying to duck the real choices the country faces.
    Which makes me wonder why Nicky Morgan signed it.
    Why did she make Amanda Spielman, a disastrous failure at OFQUAL, with no experience of working in schools and no understanding of something so basic as safeguarding procedures, HMCI?

    For the same reason.

    Because she's an idiot.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
    Conversely "the only winning move is not to play" feels fairly apt for Brexit
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
    You Sir have been offered a lifeline.

    What the hell is wrong with the Clarke, Letwin #CCU proposal.


    If its just because its #CCU. You need to grow up
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    What should have been a process to force MPs to address the difficult choices facing the country is turning into a farcical dilemma for Bercow as every half baked crackpot way forward lands on his desk being put forward by this or that MP in a pitiful attempt to duck out of making said choices.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. It virtually guarantees no deal. I have comprehensively criticised Leavers for twisting on 18, and must criticise these misbegotten Remainers on the same grounds. This is juvenile behaviour. Just when you think MPs couldn't get lower in my estimation, they dig a deeper hole. Silly, petty, children.
    Surely the amendment has it backwards anyway. At the last moment there should be a vote to revoke, if that fails we exit with no deal. Not the other way around.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,586
    edited March 2019

    Boris live on Sky just now engineering his move to back TM deal

    It is comical watching ERG going into full throttle reverse and funnier still if it is too late

    Yes, I think they may have foolishly missed the bus, and that peak TM deal was at the 2nd attempt. However the real problem of course is not the ERG, but that Labour won't vote for the the deal, or at leadt abstain, given that there is nothing in TMs deal they actually don't agree with. The DUP have been giving the strong impression that actually they want to oppose any deal at all of the TM type and 'Remain', as long as they don't have to take any blame for it. In which case TMs deal was always doomed.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
    You Sir have been offered a lifeline.

    What the hell is wrong with the Clarke, Letwin #CCU proposal.


    If its just because its #CCU. You need to grow up
    Because the customs union is a terrible idea which is why neither Norway nor any other developed European nation has gone with it.
  • FF43 said:

    The other two are storing up problems and decisions for later.

    There are always problems and decisions for later.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    What should have been a process to force MPs to address the difficult choices facing the country is turning into a farcical dilemma for Bercow as every half baked crackpot way forward lands on his desk being put forward by this or that MP in a pitiful attempt to duck out of making said choices.

    Karma's a bitch.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
    "Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. Would you like a nice game of chess?"

    (Incidentally I found out the other day that the professor is an able-bodied expy of Hawking, hence the name - Falken/falcon)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
    You Sir have been offered a lifeline.

    What the hell is wrong with the Clarke, Letwin #CCU proposal.


    If its just because its #CCU. You need to grow up
    Because the customs union is a terrible idea which is why neither Norway nor any other developed European nation has gone with it.
    I forecast it comes top in indicative votes (if chosen)
  • To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    IanB2 said:

    Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.

    Theresa's going before the 1922 tomorrow...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    And also SeanT's books.

    I particularly liked: "Kissing Cum", "Millions of women are waiting to meet cum", and "The marks of cum"

    And this, ladies and gentlemen, is us without any alcohol.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.

    The problem has always been that when she agrees to that it becomes public about 5 seconds later. While it is very obvious that her time as PM is effectively over in any case, I can understand procedurally things being a bit tricky if it is known that she has already stated she will leave on 1 May or whatever.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
    I miss the 80s. All we had to worry about was nuclear war, AIDS and Den Vs Angie. But at least our MPs were grown-ups.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    viewcode said:

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
    "Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. Would you like a nice game of chess?"

    (Incidentally I found out the other day that the professor is an able-bodied expy of Hawking, hence the name - Falken/falcon)
    They actually approached Hawking to be in the film but he turned the role down. Amusing considering later in life how happy he was to be in television shows etc that broadened dramatically his popular appeal.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April

    #CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMO
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I wonder how the EU would react if Malthouse got a majority in the Commons again and nothing else did again.

    We head to the No Deal exit. At which point the shit hits the fan. The shit needs to fly before people get serious. Will it mean May's Deal? Perhaps. EU elections and long extension? Perhaps. Revoke Article 50? That would take courage, but it would be the only more or less definitive outcome. The other two are storing up problems and decisions for later.
    I am increasingly confident that if it comes down to a no deal v revoke choice, up against the wall, Parliament will revoke. May knows this too, hence the statement within her speech yesterday.
    I know I'm a bitter Remoaner but revocation is genuinely the best of a set of bad choices. The alternatives are all extremely problematic. Which is not to say countermanding a democratically determined decision is good. But in business or any other way of life if you can't make a decision stack up, you put it on hold. You would be a fool to plough on regardless, simply because of the way you made the decision.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. It virtually guarantees no deal. I have comprehensively criticised Leavers for twisting on 18, and must criticise these misbegotten Remainers on the same grounds. This is juvenile behaviour. Just when you think MPs couldn't get lower in my estimation, they dig a deeper hole. Silly, petty, children.
    Surely the amendment has it backwards anyway. At the last moment there should be a vote to revoke, if that fails we exit with no deal. Not the other way around.
    You're applying common sense and rational analysis to a circumstance signally lacking in both... :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April

    #CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMO
    I feel like the poor dodo gets overmentioned as far as extinct, flightless birds go. Perhaps it could be dead as a great auk instead?
  • Letwin, Ken Clarke, Sarah Newton propose #CorbynsCustomsUnion
    Not Corbyn's unicorns with a say in EU trade deals
    Is that all you got in response

    Seriously

    Time to get behind #CorbynsCustomsUnion Big G
    I will never ever support Corbyn and all he stands for

    And you are deluded if you think Corbyn wants anything to do with the EU. He seeks no deal
    You Sir have been offered a lifeline.

    What the hell is wrong with the Clarke, Letwin #CCU proposal.


    If its just because its #CCU. You need to grow up
    I think at 75 I have grown up and it is not like you to be personal BJO

    CCU is pointless and we are better revoking and remaining than that
  • kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:



    None of them will win - deadlock beckons

    If that happens after all this then it's time the HMQ to step in and tell them in the name of god go!!!
    Yes all 650 of them
    Hey now, the Sinn Fein MPs are blameless at least.
    Indeed
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    The other two are storing up problems and decisions for later.

    There are always problems and decisions for later.
    Indeed. But here we have politicians who are not solving anything now because it is genuinely a bad set of choices saying, never mind, we will deal with it ALL later. Revocation at least delivers a concrete outcome now.
  • IanB2 said:

    Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.

    It will be unconditional by tomorrow night
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Those were the names of some of the Global Thermonuclear War scenarios that the WOPR computer runs through at the end of the film Wargames
    "Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. Would you like a nice game of chess?"

    (Incidentally I found out the other day that the professor is an able-bodied expy of Hawking, hence the name - Falken/falcon)
    They actually approached Hawking to be in the film but he turned the role down. Amusing considering later in life how happy he was to be in television shows etc that broadened dramatically his popular appeal.
    I did not know that, thank you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    I think there’s still a fair chance he won’t run.

    The entire US media seems to think he will. Is that wishful thinking because he has a decent chance of beating Trump if he does run or are they attempting to give an unvarnished assessment of what they see as a racing cert.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?

    Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April

    #CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMO
    I feel like the poor dodo gets overmentioned as far as extinct, flightless birds go. Perhaps it could be dead as a great auk instead?
    Or perhaps as an Aurochs?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    dixiedean said:

    FF43 said:

    Begs the question what's Malthouse Compromise Plan B?

    One in a series of airport novels. Titles in the series include:

    Malthouse Compromise
    Chequers Plan
    Letwin Amendment
    Norway Option
    Harry Potter and the ...goes before all of them. In which our intrepid band of MPs come up with ever more incredible wheezes to ensure they are defeated...
    Off-topic:

    Many years ago, Mrs J and I realised that you could replace the last word in every title of the Harry Potter series with the word 'cum' and get a very different set of books:
    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's ...
    Harry Potter and the Chamber of ...
    Harry Potter and the Prisoner of ...
    Harry Potter and the Goblet of ...
    Harry Potter and the Order of the ...
    Harry Potter and the Half-Blood ...
    Harry Potter and the Deathly ...

    Although some work better with the word in the middle: for instance, 'Harry Potter and the Cum of the Phoenix' is a rather mind-boggling title ... ;)
    I've just laughed so much that my skull aches!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?

    Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.

    The country already made the hard choice. So has the government to a degree... parliament is making the easy choice of ignoring it and hoping it will go away, like a smoker deciding not to give up after the doctor told him to... it will catch up with them in the end
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.

    Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.
  • IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices. Bercow could force MPs back to reality but does he have the political capital to be able to do so, when so many are in denial?

    Revocation is looking increasingly sensible.

    It would be sensible but toxic as well
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. It virtually guarantees no deal. I have comprehensively criticised Leavers for twisting on 18, and must criticise these misbegotten Remainers on the same grounds. This is juvenile behaviour. Just when you think MPs couldn't get lower in my estimation, they dig a deeper hole. Silly, petty, children.
    Surely the amendment has it backwards anyway. At the last moment there should be a vote to revoke, if that fails we exit with no deal. Not the other way around.
    You can tell if an amendment might pass by the signatories. Letwin is probably around the median vote and hasn't put his name to the amendment.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    IanB2 said:

    Boris hinting he'll vote for the WA if May agrees to go.

    Which further proves that Boris is an unprincipled chancer willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal advancement. Either the deal is in the national interest, in which case he should support it. Or it is not, in which case he should oppose it. The identity of the PM has no bearing on the acceptability of the deal.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    The mask slips even further.

    There's zero intention to honour either the referendum result or the 2017 manifesto.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    kle4 said:

    To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April

    #CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMO
    I feel like the poor dodo gets overmentioned as far as extinct, flightless birds go. Perhaps it could be dead as a great auk instead?
    Or Tibbles, the lighthouse owner's cat, who reputedly single-handedly made the Stephens Island Wren extinct. (Tibbles may have had some help from other feral cats.)
  • viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    No deal is becoming very real sadly
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    How?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...

    If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alternative is the Tory status quo.
  • It does make you wonder how many serious legal challenges will happen no matter what the mps decide to do

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    To sum up.

    The HOC has to agree a brexit that commands majority support in the HOC but that is also able to meet the 12th April deadline

    TM deal, (or similar), and no deal are the only relative straight forward ones

    The rest including revoke, anthing with a referendum, or a GE requires the HOC to mandate the UK EU elections, starting on the 12th April as confirmed by Mark Stone, Sky's Europe editor, today

    So in 17 days we have to have reach a majority agreement for a course of action, some complicated by the EU elections, and pass relevant legislation to enact the decision

    No deal or TM deal still remain the most likely by the 12th April

    #CCU replaces dead as a Do Do Deal tomorrow night IMO
    I feel like the poor dodo gets overmentioned as far as extinct, flightless birds go. Perhaps it could be dead as a great auk instead?
    Or Tibbles, the lighthouse owner's cat, who reputedly single-handedly made the Stephens Island Wren extinct. (Tibbles may have had some help from other feral cats.)
    You sound like legal defence for poor Tibbles trying to argue reasonable doubt.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Thought that might happen with Labour. They don't really want Brexit with a Customs Union, they just needed to differentiate themselves from the Tories once May went down the soft Brexit route. Thus they've moved their attention to another alternative which has no chance of passing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Pulpstar said:

    Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...

    If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alternative is the Tory status quo.

    People seem to have hit on the idea that using confirmatory sells better than 'remain remain remain, no matter how we get it'. Though that last one is increasing in popuarity anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Artist said:

    Thought that might happen with Labour. They don't really want Brexit with a Customs Union, they just needed to differentiate themselves from the Tories once May went down the soft Brexit route. Thus they've moved their attention to another alternative which has no chance of passing.

    Cynical, but possibly effective, and as you say very predictable.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...

    If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alternative is the Tory status quo.

    The idea a second referendum will feature in any GE post 12th April assumes we will have sitting MEPs
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    Indeed.

    The argument for a GE, which just might produce a majority government, or at least a working coalition grows by the hour.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    How?
    What happens if the people say no?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Artist said:

    Thought that might happen with Labour. They don't really want Brexit with a Customs Union, they just needed to differentiate themselves from the Tories once May went down the soft Brexit route. Thus they've moved their attention to another alternative which has no chance of passing.

    The front bench is an absolute disgrace. At least Lucy Powell, Stephen Kinnock and a few others have genuinely been trying to work cross party on the most important matter in years in the house.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    viewcode said:

    Barnesian said:
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. It virtually guarantees no deal. I have comprehensively criticised Leavers for twisting on 18, and must criticise these misbegotten Remainers on the same grounds. This is juvenile behaviour. Just when you think MPs couldn't get lower in my estimation, they dig a deeper hole. Silly, petty, children.
    Surely the amendment has it backwards anyway. At the last moment there should be a vote to revoke, if that fails we exit with no deal. Not the other way around.
    Much easier for MPs to say they voted against No Deal rather than for Revoke.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.

    Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.
    May doesn't do consensus.
    Corbyn doesn't do consensus.
    The SNP doesn't do consensus.

    Ranking unicorns by height won't solve anything.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.

    Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.
    May doesn't do consensus.
    Corbyn doesn't do consensus.
    The SNP doesn't do consensus.

    Ranking unicorns by height won't solve anything.
    Does one rank unicorns by height with or without the horn?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    MaxPB said:

    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    How?
    What happens if the people say no?
    Revoke
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    edited March 2019

    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    How?
    No positive motion passes HoC in time for it to be confirmed by referendum before 12 April, no EuCo-UK agreement struck for long extension, bingo.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2019
    The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.

    The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Pro_Rata said:

    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.

    Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.
    May doesn't do consensus.
    Corbyn doesn't do consensus.
    The SNP doesn't do consensus.

    Ranking unicorns by height won't solve anything.
    Does one rank unicorns by height with or without the horn?
    Best to keep your unicorn proclivities and fantasies to yourself
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Pulpstar said:

    Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...

    If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alternative is the Tory status quo.

    The idea a second referendum will feature in any GE post 12th April assumes we will have sitting MEPs
    Which the public may not like. But politicians do. They like elections. They also like well-paid jobs for the party faithful. Not convinced it is an insurmountable hurdle.
    Besides. If we are still in, we should have representatives. To not have would be the worst of all outcomes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    viewcode said:

    ...which again opens the possibility of "no deal". Jeez, what a mess.
    How?
    What happens if the people say no?
    Revoke
    Where does it say that? The decision (or indecision) just goes back to parliament. Approval is a straight yes/no question.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Pulpstar said:

    Ffsake 2nd ref is now being labelled as "confirmatory"...

    If Corbyn wins the next GE do we get a confirmatory referendum where he 'll need over 50% to approve him getting in ? Obviously the alternative is the Tory status quo.

    Also, does this apply whenever the public appears to change its mind on anything they had a vote on. i.e. whoever wins the GE do we get the opportunity to vote again as soon as the opinion polls turn against the government of the day?

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    isam said:

    The House of Commons is a, & is in, complete disgrace.

    The grandest establishment of the land is acting like a celebrity getting off a ban for speeding on a technicality by hiring an expensive lawyer, filibustering the voters in order to deny them what was promised to be ‘your decision’ in a ‘once in a generation vote’. Absolutely disgusting.

    Can’t hear you over all that ridiculous rhetoric.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    philiph said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    The power of government to duck the hard choices facing the country has simply moved to MPs who are doing their best to duck the same hard choices.

    Hang on, at least let them have the votes first, at least there's a plan to move from straight votes to whatever ranking preference plan they're coming up with to try and find some sort of consensus.
    May doesn't do consensus.
    Corbyn doesn't do consensus.
    The SNP doesn't do consensus.

    Ranking unicorns by height won't solve anything.
    Does one rank unicorns by height with or without the horn?
    Best to keep your unicorn proclivities and fantasies to yourself
    Look, Mummy, no Hands.
This discussion has been closed.