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Their votes did not affect a fundamental changewilliamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.0 -
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.0 -
Alex Salmond comes to mind.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.0 -
So far as one can tell, support for the Conservatives is pretty solid. I don't doubt that there are millions of people who hate Brexit, but there are also millions who love it.Cicero said:Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.0 -
Who is "Wor Lass" xD ?!SandyRentool said:
So just me and Wor Lass then? Both signed the Revoke petition.Pulpstar said:
There's a 0.96 r correlation between the 2nd ref and revoke petitions. The idea there is a whole heap of leavers for revoke out there is for the birds.eek said:
But that is a 3 year old article that you are pretending is about today's petition. Good try but zero bananas.AndyJS said:Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics, Royal Holloway.
"Unfortunately for bremainers, the constituencies which have been most supportive of this petition are also the places that voted most strongly for Remain. I’ve been able to remap the results of last Thursday’s referendum onto Westminster constituencies (currently for England and Wales only). Using that, I can work out the association between the percentage voting to leave, and the percentage of the electorate who have signed the petition.
The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
In other news buy bananas now - future supplies are unknown...0 -
I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??0 -
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.Danny565 said:
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.CarlottaVance said:
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.0 -
Well, yes, come to think of it, 21 SNP MP's lost their seats.TudorRose said:
Alex Salmond comes to mind.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.0 -
I am one of those (almost) lifetime Tories. I am pretty pissed off. Not enough to vote for Mr. Thicky's party while he heads it, but a change to someone more moderate would be enough for me to vote for them for the first time ever.Cicero said:Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
Yes "just a petition", but I think it would be incredibly stupid not to recognize that opinion has shifted and may well shift still further against Brexit. A second referendum would probably crush leave.Philip_Thompson said:
16.4 million to go - and it would still be just a petition even then.Theuniondivvie said:1000000+ on the petition.
So Leavers should be very careful. At the current rate, and despite the site collapsing under the weight of demand there are millions of people who are very, very angry and concerned. I suspect that the demonstration on Saturday could be one of the biggest ever seen in London, maybe even THE biggest... sure "its only a demonstration", but if so many people feel that they were simply ignored by the Conservatives, then the hatred dished out to May will make the loathing of Tony Blair look like a storm in a tea cup.
There is a backlash coming against the Party that has taken us to the brink of the precipice. If Tories are seeing what I'm seeing on the doorsteps then they must be white with fear. I'm getting lifetime Tories who can barely speak their name without rage.0 -
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
Which is about 1 in 5 of those who voted against A50.Sean_F said:
Well, yes, come to think of it, 21 SNP MP's lost their seats.TudorRose said:
Alex Salmond comes to mind.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.0 -
The Tory Revoke. It sounds like a post Brexit car made by a revitalised British Leyland, based on a chassis of an Austin Maxi, with all the reliability of Boris Johnson's marriage vows.TOPPING said:I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??0 -
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.Endillion said:
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
I agree we need a second referendum - how do we get one if the EU doesn't allow an extension?TOPPING said:I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
0 -
If you are a remain supporting MP then you must be looking at the situation and be thinking that voting for May's deal is the least 'bad' option in what has realistically become a binary choice.
All the other avenues have been blocked off either by process, time compression or indeed just their perilous nature.
I find it hard to believe there will be very enough EU supporting zealots who will be brave enough to press the nuclear revoke button when the deal is still available.0 -
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:0 -
Tajani saying preference is no extension beyond April 110
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I think the problem is that everybody on this board believes they do. Much like MPs.El_Capitano said:
Just due to periodic air pockets we encountered. There's no reason to be alarmed.Richard_Nabavi said:
A bit of turbulence, nothing to worry about.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
I take it everything's going well?
By the way, is there anyone on this board who knows how to run a country?0 -
This is also my view. It's weird isn't it?TOPPING said:I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??
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And me - as I said this is a failed project. Do you go live when you know the system doesn't work or revoke and keep things as they were.SandyRentool said:
So just me and Wor Lass then? Both signed the Revoke petition.Pulpstar said:
There's a 0.96 r correlation between the 2nd ref and revoke petitions. The idea there is a whole heap of leavers for revoke out there is for the birds.eek said:
But that is a 3 year old article that you are pretending is about today's petition. Good try but zero bananas.AndyJS said:Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics, Royal Holloway.
"Unfortunately for bremainers, the constituencies which have been most supportive of this petition are also the places that voted most strongly for Remain. I’ve been able to remap the results of last Thursday’s referendum onto Westminster constituencies (currently for England and Wales only). Using that, I can work out the association between the percentage voting to leave, and the percentage of the electorate who have signed the petition.
The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
In other news buy bananas now - future supplies are unknown...0 -
Revoke petition passes 1,000,0000
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Off topic, but there seem to be a number of (other) gamers on here, and I thought this was fascinating:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/top_scores_video_game_music
On topic, Sterling taking a bath again.0 -
She has as much of a Messiah complex as Blair had, with about one-third of the ability.anothernick said:
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.Danny565 said:
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.CarlottaVance said:
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.0 -
He (he being Maguire) has form about lying about other parties of course. He’s not a journalist, he’s an enthusasist.El_Capitano said:Off-topic, but interesting snippet in Kevin Maguire's New Statesman column:
"Lib Dem staff are launching a covert ABC campaign – Anyone But Charmless – with resignations predicted should the brusque Jo “charmless” Swinson replace Vince Cable. My snout claims the Karl Marx of Twickenham was driven to despair by his deputy. I’m told he secretly favours Oxford’s Layla Moran."0 -
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.0 -
And despite all the theoretically-workable scenarios which we (me included) come up with, I'm still looking at 650 people who couldn't even force indicative votes a couple of weeks out.dyedwoolie said:
No, the PM would have to enact it using the prerogative. If she refuses parliament cannot force her, only no confidence and try and get a new PM before 11pm 29th to do it.numbertwelve said:
Or HMQ herself but she would never do it0 -
Yeah. How do we go about getting some of those again?AlastairMeeks said:
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.Endillion said:
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
I'd assumed that was how it was going to be done back in 2016. It isn't really a party political issue, and I would have thought that leavers would have wanted to keep it that way.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
Or even enemies.AlastairMeeks said:
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.Endillion said:
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
Range bound 1.30-1.33. Deal is upside to 1.45-1.48. Downside? Pick your number.Endillion said:Off topic, but there seem to be a number of (other) gamers on here, and I thought this was fascinating:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/top_scores_video_game_music
On topic, Sterling taking a bath again.0 -
I want to say no. But the last 3 years don't really help the case.TOPPING said:I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??0 -
We should have done it ourselves, but the Tories and Labour have suicidally stupid leaders.Endillion said:
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.
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Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
What is going through the minds of negotiators in those countries who we will be trying to do a deal with??Endillion said:
Yeah. How do we go about getting some of those again?AlastairMeeks said:
Candidly, British politics looks as though it needs an intervention from friends.Endillion said:
I'm torn between outrage at the implied intrusion into our democracy, and hope that it might actually help. I wonder how the Greeks and Italians felt when the EU tried the same trick on them.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Looks like it.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1108748072744636416
I'm surprised this hasn't been considered sooner.0 -
Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.0
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Some pretty chunky sums each way for Brexit by 29/3/2019 at 4.4-4.5. It seems to me that is underestimating the possibility now. Personally it looks much closer to evens to me.
I'd welcome other views.0 -
... it is an Ex Government.RochdalePioneers said:
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
Slight edit for precision.Danny565 said:
She has as much of a Messiah complex as Blair had, with about one-third of one percent of the ability.anothernick said:
Yes. She clearly thinks she embodies the will of the people and parliament should put aside its better judgment and bend to her wishes. This is a stance which was adopted by a number of European leaders in the early part of the last century who used referendums to circumvent representative democracy. With disastrous results.Danny565 said:
Sorry, but her behaviour this last 24 hours (appealing directly to the public rather than to MPs, suddenly putting out videos with captions after usually being so averse to social media) only makes sense if she is planning a general election.CarlottaVance said:
Whether her own MPs would allow her to lead them into an election is another matter. She seems to have gone completely deranged to me.0 -
CarlottaVance said:
Yes, in the least surprising news of the day, the frothing europhobes' deepest fantasies turn out to be exactly that.0 -
Why not?Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.0 -
There is a deal available, a poor deal, but the alternative is civil war.
It's a joke by the MPs surely. "I was going to vote for it, but Mrs May dissed me, so civil war it is." Are they adults?
0 -
Even if Theresa May is singing to the choir invisible, it is doubtful they are listening. Maybe she is pining for the Norway + !!logical_song said:
... it is an Ex Government.RochdalePioneers said:
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
NoCD13 said:There is a deal available, a poor deal, but the alternative is civil war.
It's a joke by the MPs surely. "I was going to vote for it, but Mrs May dissed me, so civil war it is." Are they adults?0 -
Their parties' members would not forgive them for it. There are a whole load of voters out there who are nowhere near as committed.Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.0 -
Civil war?CD13 said:There is a deal available, a poor deal, but the alternative is civil war.
It's a joke by the MPs surely. "I was going to vote for it, but Mrs May dissed me, so civil war it is." Are they adults?0 -
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
We do not have available armaments. Da Yout wid dem blades will probably win.Recidivist said:
Civil war?CD13 said:There is a deal available, a poor deal, but the alternative is civil war.
It's a joke by the MPs surely. "I was going to vote for it, but Mrs May dissed me, so civil war it is." Are they adults?0 -
Most Conservative voters will be furious they stopped Brexit; most Labour voters will be furious they stopped Corbyn becoming PM. And first past the post is pitiless to candidates in the middle.logical_song said:
Why not?Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.0 -
Showing over a million signatures now, so clearly enough getting through.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/2415840 -
That would make her a Norwegian Blue. Seems to fit the situation nicely.Nigel_Foremain said:
Even if Theresa May is singing to the choir invisible, it is doubtful they are listening. Maybe she is pining for the Norway + !!logical_song said:
... it is an Ex Government.RochdalePioneers said:
Its the desperation of it. Its obvious to ANY observer that we do not have a functioning government. Its not a democratic outrage that the EU are proposing this, or that the Irish PM announces that the British PM will make a statement, its that our government has expired.El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
The IT for the petitions website is pretty good. Scaling for one-off peaks in demand like this, without wasting a heap of money on wasted capacity, is hard.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
0 -
Labour's voters would, for the most part, forgive them. Most are pro-remain, and there is evidence that even Labour Leave voters do not feel especially strong about it.logical_song said:
Why not?Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Maybe that's why May is so hostile. It assists the opposition. By comparison, the fact that it gets the country out of a hole is of relatively little importance.0 -
It would be far more achievable if we had PR. At the moment, the middle gets squeezed (Ipsos Mori gives TIG just 2%).AlastairMeeks said:
Their parties' members would not forgive them for it. There are a whole load of voters out there who are nowhere near as committed.Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.0 -
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.Sean_F said:
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.
0 -
I'd rather that than those that seem to be doing the bidding of a HOSTILE foreign power, either intentionally or unintentionally! It would be more honest if they admitted that they have secret fantasies about riding bareback with Vladimir Putin.ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
Happened in 1688, and that time “the answer is an Orange”. Maybe this time the answer is a GNU.ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
It's only doable if a new PM is amongst them. They cant agree Jack shit without the royal prerogativeExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
The EU is not a foreign power, at least not until the 30th!ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
Well we have an unwritten, i.e. flexible constitution and I think Dominic Grieve entertained French ministers to a meeting in his office. Anything seems worth considering if it's more effective than the Maybot.ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
But regardless the PM weildjng the RP is required to formalize any treatyrural_voter said:
Well we have an unwritten, i.e. flexible constitution and I think Dominic Grieve entertained French ministers to a meeting in his office. Anything seems worth considering if it's more effective than the Maybot.ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
Indeed it is quite clear who gets the blame:Peter_the_Punter said:
Labour's voters would, for the most part, forgive them. Most are pro-remain, and there is evidence that even Labour Leave voters do not feel especially strong about it.logical_song said:
Why not?Sean_F said:
There is that.CarlottaVance said:
A cunning plan.....I'm sure PM Corbyn would fall into line......Sean_F said:
That's why I think they'd have to pass a VONC, and then presumably, a resolution requesting revocation. I expect the EU would grant an extension in that situation.numbertwelve said:
You'd need loads of Conservative and Labour MPs to break from their parties, in the certain knowledge that their parties' voters will not forgive them for it.
Maybe that's why May is so hostile. It assists the opposition. By comparison, the fact that it gets the country out of a hole is of relatively little importance.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1108724428815388672?s=190 -
Civil war. Not in the sense of two armies but of two antagonistic blocs where co-operation will break down. The anger has ratcheted up. From being banter to accusations of treachery to downright hatred.
We had a referendum on something that only a few people were bothered about. Now we have a massive split, real anger, and no easy way to solve it as positions become entrenched. Once you pick and choose your democracy, you've lost it. Telling people to simmer down won't do.0 -
It's achievable but the costs of doing it easily (you would need a cloud provider) is far higher than hosting it in an unscaleable way (using your own servers)...OblitusSumMe said:
The IT for the petitions website is pretty good. Scaling for one-off peaks in demand like this, without wasting a heap of money on wasted capacity, is hard.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance". If I were a leaver and I had been denied access to a "Stop all immigrants" petition I would be claiming it was a govt plot. However, I know how shit government IT generally is, so it is more likely cock-up than conspiracy! It'll probably be fixed on 30th March.
0 -
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.eristdoof said:
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.Sean_F said:
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.0 -
Lots of bots swamping the server.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance".
0 -
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaanothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
0 -
Some Brexiteers have already been trying to provide political cover for revocation by framing it as rethinking and doing Brexit properly later.Harris_Tweed said:
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.eristdoof said:
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.Sean_F said:
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.0 -
It's working now. 1,060,708Andrew said:
Lots of bots swamping the server.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance".
0 -
Usually it's the Maybot causing havoc in No. 10Andrew said:
Lots of bots swamping the server.Nigel_Foremain said:Petitions still "down for maintenance".
0 -
indeed and the EU would not seek to make any kind of legal arrangement - unless of course people want a civil war with competing governments claiming legitimacy - I think some people have been sent so mad by Brexit they would argue themselves into thinking that was the 'principled' thing to do.dyedwoolie said:
It's only doable if a new PM is amongst them. They cant agree Jack shit without the royal prerogativeExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
In a normal life or business decision where you are unable to get the favoured option stack up, you would put it on hold. In effect cancel it, although you may revisit later.0
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That is not what I said. It is possible to use revoke as a way to avoid EU collusion!Harris_Tweed said:
If you're dreaming of getting EU collusion, I think any emergency solution will be around a long extension rather than revoke. IMO, revoke without a referendum is still very much a minority sport.eristdoof said:
Revoke does not need to equal "cancel". The UK's prime minister can revoke article 50 and then the next day sign a new article 50 with a new date at least 2 years away. The advantage of this is that the EU cannot do anything at all to stop this, where as a 2 year delay needs the permission of 27 states.Sean_F said:
Opposing Brexit is a different thing to cancelling it.williamglenn said:
How many MPs who voted against invoking Article 50 suffered for it in the 2017 General Election?Sean_F said:
I think that the electoral consequences would be unpleasant for MPs who backed Revoke, which is why it has not been attempted.anothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to see the back of it. A small minority hold "die in the ditch" positions on either side but the vast majority of people do not. The usual nutters may try to stir things up but recent efforts by leave supporters to mobilise people on the streets have been a flop - Farage's risible march being the latest example.dyedwoolie said:
That's not what will happen. No deal or revoke will cause chaos and civil unrestRecidivist said:
I'll concede that there will be a group of confused old guys wandering around somewhere in the North at the moment who won't be best pleased.dyedwoolie said:
Yes because revoking without a referendum will be wildly popular and cause no unrest at allRecidivist said:
Corrected that for you.dyedwoolie said:
You're welcome.
The down side to this of course is the animosity caused to the EU, with whom some sort of deal would need to be worked out. Unless of course the EU actively agree revoke and re-invoke as a means of avoiding no deal next friday.0 -
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.0 -
Now for a bit of light relief....
The Zambian authorities have banned an energy drink after a Ugandan man complained it had caused him to have a prolonged erection.
Power Natural High Energy Drink SX, which is made in Zambia, is not marketed as a sexual aid. But an investigation by Ugandan health authorities in December found that the beverage contained Sildenafil Citrata - the active ingredient in Viagra.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-476540200 -
In more important news than Brexit; I would like to point out to Pointless fans that the capital of Kazakhstan has changed from Astana to Nursultan, surely a new pointless answer.0
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Mr Cicero,
"Civil War??? FFS Grow up."
I think you're proving my point. Now simmer down and explain a simple solution (apart from the bad deal I mentioned) which will stop you and others becoming more and more demented?0 -
Revoke while anouncing the date of a second referendum.eek said:
I agree we need a second referendum - how do we get one if the EU doesn't allow an extension?TOPPING said:I think revoke is wrong. I'd prefer a second referendum miles before revoke.
I know that no deal would bring havoc however so perhaps that is the least bad option.
But, although a seemingly delusional view, I still think the deal will go through. Precisely because the other options are so damaging. I mean we can't be that absolutely stark raving mad as a nation can we??0 -
People may be fed up with it now, but they will be annoyed as soon as something they wanted is no longer possible..eristdoof said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaanothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.0 -
Fair enough - make your case then.eristdoof said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaanothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.0 -
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."148grss said:https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad20 -
As far as I can tell, there is only one poll that puts No Deal against Revoke, from Survation, in December. Helpfully, it's 49% to 51%.0 -
Well, they certainly aren't domestic are theyFoxy said:
The EU is not a foreign power, at least not until the 30th!ExiledInScotland said:
MPs negotiating directly with a foreign power. That does not seem right.Nigel_Foremain said:
I can only dream!El_Capitano said:What could this mean? Government of National Unity?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11087480727446364160 -
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...ExiledInScotland said:
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."148grss said:https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad20 -
.
Including Corbyn's own constituency...148grss said:https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.0 -
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Since you must have missed the first time it was posted...eek said:
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...ExiledInScotland said:
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."148grss said:https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad2
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/11087013938363023360 -
Apologies - I thought it was relevant. I accept that the current petition is gaining signatures fast. I wonder whether the geographic split will be similar?eek said:
Keep referencing an old survey about a different petition if it makes you feel happier...ExiledInScotland said:
University towns. Snowflakes, Woke Remoaners. Actually "The correlation between the percentage of voters who voted Remain and the proportion of the electorate who have signed the petition is extremely high (r=0.93). There’s little to cut against the idea that this petition comes from people who lost and are unhappy about the result."148grss said:https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
I do find this map very interesting; some constituencies have upto 5% signing the petition, which isn't too bad.
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/are-we-bremorseful-yet-e0506c826ad20 -
0
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How pleased will the revokers be if their petition reaches 100 million signatures?0
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Perhaps a theme but for most people background noise rather than front and centre. Whicht is what, I think, without putting words in his mouth, anothernick was suggesting. Certainly, where I’m sitting now, life goes on as normal and there are, as far as I can tell, no union jack underpants wearers or people humming ode to joy in grenade lobbing distance. The airport this morning was no different to normal.eristdoof said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaanothernick said:
No - it will cause a huge storm in the political world but about 99% of people are fed up to the back teeth with Brexit and will be happy to *see the back of it.*
What ever happens Brexit will continue to be a major theme for years, and probably decades.
The campaign to rejoin will start one week after the official exit.
For you it’s perhaps central to your life but don’t suggest that’s the case for everybody.0 -
Does Varadkar now get on the blower to Macron ?0
This discussion has been closed.