politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A no deal Brexit on March 29th move from a 12% chance to 22% i
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That depends on how fast the 17.4 million total is coming down.Philip_Thompson said:0 -
Try before 6am - it's now at 369,861Philip_Thompson said:0 -
As we daily hear how uniquely rubbish the UK government is - worth reflecting that that 'Trust AI to make important decisions' in the UK (31%) is in line with Germany (31%), Italy (30%) and Ireland (29%), with the Spanish (26%), French (25%) and Portuguese (19%) less trusting and the Dutch (43%) very much more so.Sandpit said:I’m not saying that trust in government is low and falling, but...
Poll: 25% of European voters would trust AI more than human politicians to make policy decisions.
https://qz.com/1576057/could-ai-make-better-policy-than-politicians/
https://politics.slashdot.org/story/19/03/20/207206/many-people-think-ai-could-make-better-policy-decisions-than-politicians0 -
Her credibility is not the main point at the present time. If they dont like the choices she has presented then they can bloody well do something about it.IanB2 said:
I am not so sure. Every MP I have heard since is seething; they all know she has gone out of her way to sideline Parliament and keep them out of the process (even her ministers and former ministers know that) and grandstanding like this with the public attempting to dump the blame on MPs for her own ineptitude has gone down appallingly. And even her friends can see that she has lied repeatedly, and failed on her own terms. Her credibility in parliament is at rock bottom.rkrkrk said:I reckon there's value on Theresa May surviving a bit longer, maybe to the end of the year. I just laid her being gone by end March at 13 on bf. If we get no deal, she will feel it's her duty to soldier on for at least the immediate disruption.
If the choices are not as she says they can pick something else.
If they try but find she is right about the choices then moaning about those choices is pointless, moaning about her is pointless. They would still need to decide which of several options they dont like they must choose.
It is clear objection to the deal is hardening as Labour MPs, who are the only ones with the numbers to save it, are by their words tonight essentially committing to oppose it. How could they now justify voting for it, when they are busy being offended at the way May frames the choice?
That being so they all have no excuses for not definitively choosing something else at the earliest opportunity.0 -
This morning needs some Tory resignations.0
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Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:
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Blair’s political error on Iraq was not to recognise his own policy failure. When the United Nations did not back military action, he should have accepted it. He should have told the public that he had been willing to try everything to win support for invasion, but that Britain could not now proceed. He would have been right and wildly popular. Instead, from that moment to this, he was pigeonholed as delusional.
May’s political mistake on Brexit is very similar. When she applied for an article 50 extension this week, she should have recognised the verdict. The old policy is dead. Even now, she could still turn to the country and remind us that she has done everything she conceivably could to get the Brexit she preferred. With regret, she could say, we must now go in a different direction, perhaps leaving the EU but preserving the benefits from the single market and customs alignment. It wouldn’t please all the marchers any more than it would persuade the European Research Group. But it would be pretty popular, all the same.
The overarching question that faces British politics is not whether May’s Brexit policy will succeed – because it has failed. Until Wednesday, the succession was a secondary issue, because the arithmetic in the House of Commons will not change. Now, though, parliament is faced by both questions. The country needs a new Brexit policy, and it may soon need a new leader to try to implement it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/20/uk-politicians-ignore-mass-public-protests-peril-theresa-may-tony-blair0 -
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Leave without a deal petition 369941 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963eek said:
Try before 6am - it's now at 369,861Philip_Thompson said:0 -
The identity of the cheese is far more consequential.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
He's part of the reason for this mess in the first placeCarlottaVance said:While not in the Howe class an impassioned speech from Grieve:
https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/11084436279975772170 -
Shift workers too, of course.edmundintokyo said:
I don't see why not, firstly there are British people all over the world on different timezones, and secondly even without insomnia there's always somebody awake if you combine the early-risers and the night owls. I think evolution sets it up that way so there's somebody to keep an eye out for predators.AndyJS said:Are 5,000 people an hour really signing an online petition in the middle of the night?
https://petition.parliament.uk0 -
Brie reasonable! May is stuck between a Roquefort and a hard place.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Morning all.
400 000.0 -
The Revoke Article 50 petition overtook the no deal petition at about 5:30 this morning.OblitusSumMe said:
I wish it the best, but people are heading to bed now and it might not be all over Twitter by the morning.Recidivist said:
Well its at 256,000 signatures now, so about 2/3 of the way there. And it was putting on about 1,000 per minute earlier.OblitusSumMe said:There's a pro no deal petition with nearly 370,000 signatures. The revoke petition has some way to go.
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Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.kjohnw said:
I see the Prime Minister's deal received an extra signature overnight, taking it to 49.0 -
So not Jaffa Cakes right?CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
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And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.0
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It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.OblitusSumMe said:0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWaMIpSIOVwkjohnw said:0 -
What is "their view"?Scott_P said:0 -
Greetings Bunnco! long time no hear.bunnco said:
That's right. But that's not enough in itself. It's about the Person & Personality but it has to be about the Politics/Political Vision and the Proposition.ExiledInScotland said:
Leaders have to be comfortable in their own skin and do well on TV. You need to view all leadership candidates through that prism.
And in a crowded field, a successful candidate needs a distinctive proposition, a USP - Unique Selling Proposition. Which the print media can understand and get behind.
My comments below re 'The Sun Says' refer. A proposition that isn't 'virtue signalling and hectoring us over what we eat or throw away' can give the comfort in their own skin and do well on TV.
The punters want substance as well as media performability.
Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot
The flaw is that Truss is a gaffe prone half wit, though that would still be a step up from May.0 -
Depends on whether any LibDem Orange Bookers join (aren't they extinct? - ed.)Recidivist said:
So not Jaffa Cakes right?CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Edam right.Foxy said:
Brie reasonable! May is stuck between a Roquefort and a hard place.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
But MPs will, and they’re the ones that can remove her.El_Capitano said:
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.OblitusSumMe said:0 -
Insofar as it will have any effect it would be to stiffen the resolve of weak-willed MPs who are already sympathetic.El_Capitano said:
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.OblitusSumMe said:
Edit: A not very complicated script could be written that would email each MP when the number of signatures for the revoke petition exceeded the number for the no deal petition. And then when it reaches 50% more, 100%, etc. Alas, I have to document the code for a black box today.0 -
The signers of the petition of the PMs deal are always right thoughOblitusSumMe said:
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.kjohnw said:
I see the Prime Minister's deal received an extra signature overnight, taking it to 49.
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About 5:55 actuallyRecidivist said:
The Revoke Article 50 petition overtook the no deal petition at about 5:30 this morning.OblitusSumMe said:
I wish it the best, but people are heading to bed now and it might not be all over Twitter by the morning.Recidivist said:
Well its at 256,000 signatures now, so about 2/3 of the way there. And it was putting on about 1,000 per minute earlier.OblitusSumMe said:There's a pro no deal petition with nearly 370,000 signatures. The revoke petition has some way to go.
And currently at 7am 20 people a second are signing it...0 -
Therapy for remainers is no small thing.El_Capitano said:
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.OblitusSumMe said:
But it is a demonstration of how Brexit is being undemocratically imposed against the will of the people, so will be a very helpful card for the rejoin campaign down the road.0 -
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So what?Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
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Nevertheless she has no benenfit of the doubt left and is surely going to be defeated nowCasino_Royale said:0 -
I reckon it is just increased demand from the Cabinet.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Brexit: Toilet paper maker stockpiles in a case of no-deal
https://bbc.in/2Fpr8nV0 -
''twas from a PB'er..keep up!OblitusSumMe said:
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.kjohnw said:
I see the Prime Minister's deal received an extra signature overnight, taking it to 49.0 -
I like this map.
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
Say what you like about Heidi Allen but she represents her voters.0 -
I’ve moved my money to rebacking No Deal this morning.IanB2 said:
Nevertheless she has no benenfit of the doubt left and is surely going to be defeated nowCasino_Royale said:0 -
Macron calls in the army to deal with gilets jaunes
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/citations/2019/03/20/25002-20190320ARTFIG00241-gilets-jaunes-les-chefs-de-parti-s-echarpent-sur-le-recours-a-l-armee.php0 -
over 423 000 now. Should hit half a million before I head off for work.eek said:
About 5:55 actuallyRecidivist said:
The Revoke Article 50 petition overtook the no deal petition at about 5:30 this morning.OblitusSumMe said:
I wish it the best, but people are heading to bed now and it might not be all over Twitter by the morning.Recidivist said:
Well its at 256,000 signatures now, so about 2/3 of the way there. And it was putting on about 1,000 per minute earlier.OblitusSumMe said:There's a pro no deal petition with nearly 370,000 signatures. The revoke petition has some way to go.
And currently at 7am 20 people a second are signing it...
Or 49 in @Casino_Royale counting.
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I’d be interested in a transcript of that discussionHYUFD said:
It seems unlikely - I suspect she may be making it up / exaggerating for effect0 -
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.0
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Only 200 in Hartlepool.edmundintokyo said:I like this map.
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
Say what you like about Heidi Allen but she represents her voters.0 -
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.0 -
Even French people who are completely agnostic about the Brexit project now feel utter incomprehension. No-one can make head or tail of what’s going on...we French do not understand the intricacies of UK parliamentary procedure, let alone the terrifying factions fighting for the soul (or the wine cellar, it sometimes seems to us) of the Tory Party, from the ERG to Olly Robbins’s briefs. But we know what a furious Englishman beating up an Austin 1800 with a branch looks like, and it’s not a pretty sight.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/20/french-feel-nothing-pity-basil-fawlty-brexit/0 -
Im surprised youre still living here :-)SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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The map is basically LD/TIG target seats at the forthcoming election...edmundintokyo said:I like this map.
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
Say what you like about Heidi Allen but she represents her voters.0 -
Foxy said:
I reckon it is just increased demand from the Cabinet.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Brexit: Toilet paper maker stockpiles in a case of no-deal
https://bbc.in/2Fpr8nV
yet people pay to read it...Casino_Royale said:0 -
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.Casino_Royale said:
So what?Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
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No Deal would represent the most astonishing failure. We could have had that on Day 1 of 1001. And then spent a thousand days preparing. But when the only thing the politicians could agree on was that No Deal was an unimaginable, unmitigated disaster - to vote it down, and for it then to happen anyway - because they were too stupid to realise that they had already voted for it as the default setting.....Casino_Royale said:
I’ve moved my money to rebacking No Deal this morning.IanB2 said:
Nevertheless she has no benenfit of the doubt left and is surely going to be defeated nowCasino_Royale said:
The Student Anarchist within me does give a little "Yay!".0 -
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Good morning, everyone.
I was watching Elementary last night (Pick, 10pm, Wednesdays) and, before that, winning magnificently at XCOM 2. I gather the statement was an utterly damp squib, just bleating for MPs to support her, yes?0 -
PB's wordplay giocatori must be hungover this morning.Foxy said:
I reckon it is just increased demand from the Cabinet.IanB2 said:BREAKING: Brexit: Toilet paper maker stockpiles in a case of no-deal
https://bbc.in/2Fpr8nV0 -
It will cause cognitive dissonance for lefties thoughCarlottaVance said:Voodoo poll Klaxon!
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1108607878057861120
Thatcher or May?
Which woman to they hate more?0 -
Also interesting that most of the Irish border areas are like yeah whatever0
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That’s a masterclass in confirmation bias.Recidivist said:
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.Casino_Royale said:
So what?Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
You want to revoke and, if we do Leave, rejoin in prompt order.
There’s certainly a large constituency for that but don’t fall into a trap of thinking it’s where the centre of gravity of public opinion is.0 -
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.Chris said:
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.0 -
Bleating is too kind. Sheep are cute. This was a particularly aggressive crow cawing to defend its territory despite the fact both its wings are broken. The overwhelming sense is please, someone, put it out of its misery.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
I was watching Elementary last night (Pick, 10pm, Wednesdays) and, before that, winning magnificently at XCOM 2. I gather the statement was an utterly damp squib, just bleating for MPs to support her, yes?0 -
Calm down.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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SKY: ANALYSIS
Theresa May turns offensive after charm fails: The charm falls very flat as Mrs May manages to offend the very people she needs to persuade to vote for her Brexit deal.0 -
That's angry, but when does it convert into actual resignation.Scott_P said:
I've never heard so many month of angry briefings, but she's still in place. Maybe last night was the last straw for them, but we'll have to see.0 -
To borrow from Alastair Meeks, have MPs reached the panic point or do they all still consider themselves the cleverest people the the room?0
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They all hate May and think they can get what they want by holding out, and then blaming her.matt said:To borrow from Alastair Meeks, have MPs reached the panic point or do they all still consider themselves the cleverest people the the room?
It’s stupid, but that’s where we’re at.0 -
Don’t Gouda him. I cammerbert any more of these puns.MarqueeMark said:
Edam right.Foxy said:
Brie reasonable! May is stuck between a Roquefort and a hard place.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
I am very calm.Casino_Royale said:
Calm down.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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I suspect that many of those people in that area most bothered by the border are also people who do not recognise the legitimacy of the Westminster Parliament's jurisdiction over Northern Ireland, so they're hardly likely to sign a petition to it.edmundintokyo said:Also interesting that most of the Irish border areas are like yeah whatever
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Paul Mason is just predjudiced against the Dolce latte life.Charles said:
Don’t Gouda him. I cammerbert any more of these puns.MarqueeMark said:
Edam right.Foxy said:
Brie reasonable! May is stuck between a Roquefort and a hard place.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
I don't know where the centre of gravity in public opinion is. But confirmation bias aside, we both know which direction it is travelling in.Casino_Royale said:
That’s a masterclass in confirmation bias.Recidivist said:
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.Casino_Royale said:
So what?Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
You want to revoke and, if we do Leave, rejoin in prompt order.
There’s certainly a large constituency for that but don’t fall into a trap of thinking it’s where the centre of gravity of public opinion is.0 -
It's not a dick measuring exercise. Were this a project the options now are:-Casino_Royale said:
Scrap the project and start again
or continue and see what happens..
either way management is going to lose their jobs the question is do we adopt the sane approach or do we go all in...
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Unlike you, I have no easy way out. In all seriousness, though, if I were a younger man without the responsibilities I now have I’d definitely be looking to leave the UK. It’s certainly not a country I feel proud to be from these days and its prospects are poor.Alanbrooke said:
Im surprised youre still living here :-)SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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Well presumably it was in the green room or equivalent. I suspect that he tried to continue the discussion from the sofa. But “abuse and intimidate” doesn’t seem realistic from an objective standpoint.SouthamObserver said:
I’m curious whether her threshold is.0 -
May for some extraordinary reason thinks victory for her deal is stilton.Charles said:
Don’t Gouda him. I cammerbert any more of these puns.MarqueeMark said:
Edam right.Foxy said:
Brie reasonable! May is stuck between a Roquefort and a hard place.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God - I thought they might be crackers, masquerading under a posh name......CarlottaVance said:
Elite neoliberal biscuits, if you must know.MarqueeMark said:
Er....I feel I have to ask: what type of biscuits?CarlottaVance said:0 -
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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Good to hear Sir Oliver Letwin on R4 this morning. A reminder that there are still some decent parliamentarians motivated by a sense of duty to the country, and a consequent desire to find a workable compromise.0
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There’s a fair amount more space for panicking yet. The weekend should be full of it.matt said:To borrow from Alastair Meeks, have MPs reached the panic point or do they all still consider themselves the cleverest people the the room?
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And the worst of it is that - even if by some miracle May does manage to bludgeon her deal through - there will be no goodwill or stable consensus for all the decisions that need to be taken thereafter, nor for the bigger task of fixing our future that lies ahead. May is focused entirely on getting through the next few days and thereafter we will once again be adrift.Recidivist said:
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.Chris said:
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.0 -
I agree up to a point, but we're under no unexpected organisational or economic/administrative pressure yet. It's become a cliche, but we're now just coming up to a week away from such a test, if things continue in the same way.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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The people will be on the streets on Saturday.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The army is merely on standby:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-469105350 -
There was one noteworthy thing from May's speech - apart from how dishonest and, literally irresponsible it was: she mentioned No Deal but didn't argue against it, unlike extension or referendum.Scott_P said:0 -
I disagree. Failure comes in many forms. Ceasing to exist as a consequence of an inability to build consensus is one measure, for example; as are deliberate self-harm, international humiliation and the ceding of all control to foreign powers.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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But remember there will only be 5 of you to control.Foxy said:
The people will be on the streets on Saturday.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The army is merely on standby:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-469105350 -
So what can we expect first?
A confidence vote by Tory MPs in her leadership of the party?
A vote of no confidence in whats left of her government?
A new record sized defeat for her deal (allowed by Bercow as he knows it'll be a massive NO again)
Accidental no deal crash out next Friday night0 -
OK so May has shown herself unfit to be PM but not for the reasons popularly stated.
Given all the mistakes she made (and there were many) the deal she negotiated was just about the best possible. She is right that it is MPs who have refused to pursue the least bad, most pragmatic. Her deal is just about the only sensible way forward.
It is how she has handled its passage including notably last night that marks her out as manifestly not up to the job.0 -
I think we're still at the stage where most MP's believe total victory is achievable.AlastairMeeks said:
There’s a fair amount more space for panicking yet. The weekend should be full of it.matt said:To borrow from Alastair Meeks, have MPs reached the panic point or do they all still consider themselves the cleverest people the the room?
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The idea that there is a workable compromise at this stage is the problem - at this moment the best advice would be to pause the project in such a way that we can continue afterwardsThomasNashe said:Good to hear Sir Oliver Letwin on R4 this morning. A reminder that there are still some decent parliamentarians motivated by a sense of duty to the country, and a consequent desire to find a workable compromise.
Revoking knowing and ensure the courts will rule the revoking illegal is the perfect way to restart the clock0 -
Extend or referendum (edit). May was arguing against these in her speech.CarlottaVance said:
What is "their view"?Scott_P said:0 -
Actually I have seen recent several occasions where hardliner Leavers completely lose it. Unfortunately it rings all too true.SouthamObserver said:0 -
A deal followed by a leadership election focused on the shape of the future (and then a GE)!should create at least a discussion and mandate for the futureIanB2 said:
And the worst of it is that - even if by some miracle May does manage to bludgeon her deal through - there will be no goodwill or stable consensus for all the decisions that need to be taken thereafter, nor for the bigger task of fixing our future that lies ahead. May is focused entirely on getting through the next few days and thereafter we will once again be adrift.Recidivist said:
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.Chris said:
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.Recidivist said:And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.0 -
Yes. Much of that can be summed up in the absolute, conscious failure to investigate any American and Russian interference in the most crucial and epochal constitutional change of the last seventy years.SouthamObserver said:
I disagree. Failure comes in many forms. Ceasing to exist as a consequence of an inability to build consensus is one measure, for example; as are deliberate self-harm, international humiliation and the ceding of all control to foreign powers.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
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You do realise that just because Gavin Williamson says something it doesn’t actually happen?Foxy said:
The people will be on the streets on Saturday.Sean_F said:
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.SouthamObserver said:We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The army is merely on standby:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-469105350
