As we daily hear how uniquely rubbish the UK government is - worth reflecting that that 'Trust AI to make important decisions' in the UK (31%) is in line with Germany (31%), Italy (30%) and Ireland (29%), with the Spanish (26%), French (25%) and Portuguese (19%) less trusting and the Dutch (43%) very much more so.
I reckon there's value on Theresa May surviving a bit longer, maybe to the end of the year. I just laid her being gone by end March at 13 on bf. If we get no deal, she will feel it's her duty to soldier on for at least the immediate disruption.
I am not so sure. Every MP I have heard since is seething; they all know she has gone out of her way to sideline Parliament and keep them out of the process (even her ministers and former ministers know that) and grandstanding like this with the public attempting to dump the blame on MPs for her own ineptitude has gone down appallingly. And even her friends can see that she has lied repeatedly, and failed on her own terms. Her credibility in parliament is at rock bottom.
Her credibility is not the main point at the present time. If they dont like the choices she has presented then they can bloody well do something about it.
If the choices are not as she says they can pick something else.
If they try but find she is right about the choices then moaning about those choices is pointless, moaning about her is pointless. They would still need to decide which of several options they dont like they must choose.
It is clear objection to the deal is hardening as Labour MPs, who are the only ones with the numbers to save it, are by their words tonight essentially committing to oppose it. How could they now justify voting for it, when they are busy being offended at the way May frames the choice?
That being so they all have no excuses for not definitively choosing something else at the earliest opportunity.
Blair’s political error on Iraq was not to recognise his own policy failure. When the United Nations did not back military action, he should have accepted it. He should have told the public that he had been willing to try everything to win support for invasion, but that Britain could not now proceed. He would have been right and wildly popular. Instead, from that moment to this, he was pigeonholed as delusional.
May’s political mistake on Brexit is very similar. When she applied for an article 50 extension this week, she should have recognised the verdict. The old policy is dead. Even now, she could still turn to the country and remind us that she has done everything she conceivably could to get the Brexit she preferred. With regret, she could say, we must now go in a different direction, perhaps leaving the EU but preserving the benefits from the single market and customs alignment. It wouldn’t please all the marchers any more than it would persuade the European Research Group. But it would be pretty popular, all the same.
The overarching question that faces British politics is not whether May’s Brexit policy will succeed – because it has failed. Until Wednesday, the succession was a secondary issue, because the arithmetic in the House of Commons will not change. Now, though, parliament is faced by both questions. The country needs a new Brexit policy, and it may soon need a new leader to try to implement it.
I don't see why not, firstly there are British people all over the world on different timezones, and secondly even without insomnia there's always somebody awake if you combine the early-risers and the night owls. I think evolution sets it up that way so there's somebody to keep an eye out for predators.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
Revoke now 363,000 and should overhaul the no deal petition (369,000) before lunchtime.
It’s not a dick measuring exercise
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.
Leaders have to be comfortable in their own skin and do well on TV. You need to view all leadership candidates through that prism.
That's right. But that's not enough in itself. It's about the Person & Personality but it has to be about the Politics/Political Vision and the Proposition.
And in a crowded field, a successful candidate needs a distinctive proposition, a USP - Unique Selling Proposition. Which the print media can understand and get behind.
My comments below re 'The Sun Says' refer. A proposition that isn't 'virtue signalling and hectoring us over what we eat or throw away' can give the comfort in their own skin and do well on TV.
The punters want substance as well as media performability.
Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot
Greetings Bunnco! long time no hear.
The flaw is that Truss is a gaffe prone half wit, though that would still be a step up from May.
Revoke now 363,000 and should overhaul the no deal petition (369,000) before lunchtime.
It’s not a dick measuring exercise
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.
But MPs will, and they’re the ones that can remove her.
Revoke now 363,000 and should overhaul the no deal petition (369,000) before lunchtime.
It’s not a dick measuring exercise
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.
Insofar as it will have any effect it would be to stiffen the resolve of weak-willed MPs who are already sympathetic.
Edit: A not very complicated script could be written that would email each MP when the number of signatures for the revoke petition exceeded the number for the no deal petition. And then when it reaches 50% more, 100%, etc. Alas, I have to document the code for a black box today.
Revoke now 363,000 and should overhaul the no deal petition (369,000) before lunchtime.
It’s not a dick measuring exercise
Quantity has a quality all of its own. If it becomes the most signed petition that means something, however minor in the scheme of things.
It does, but given that May ignored the biggest parliamentary defeat ever as if nothing had happened, the chance she’ll pay any attention to an online petition tends to 0. It’s simply therapeutic for us Remainers.
Therapy for remainers is no small thing.
But it is a demonstration of how Brexit is being undemocratically imposed against the will of the people, so will be a very helpful card for the rejoin campaign down the road.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.
Even French people who are completely agnostic about the Brexit project now feel utter incomprehension. No-one can make head or tail of what’s going on...we French do not understand the intricacies of UK parliamentary procedure, let alone the terrifying factions fighting for the soul (or the wine cellar, it sometimes seems to us) of the Tory Party, from the ERG to Olly Robbins’s briefs. But we know what a furious Englishman beating up an Austin 1800 with a branch looks like, and it’s not a pretty sight.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
So what?
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.
Nevertheless she has no benenfit of the doubt left and is surely going to be defeated now
I’ve moved my money to rebacking No Deal this morning.
No Deal would represent the most astonishing failure. We could have had that on Day 1 of 1001. And then spent a thousand days preparing. But when the only thing the politicians could agree on was that No Deal was an unimaginable, unmitigated disaster - to vote it down, and for it then to happen anyway - because they were too stupid to realise that they had already voted for it as the default setting.....
The Student Anarchist within me does give a little "Yay!".
I was watching Elementary last night (Pick, 10pm, Wednesdays) and, before that, winning magnificently at XCOM 2. I gather the statement was an utterly damp squib, just bleating for MPs to support her, yes?
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
So what?
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.
That’s a masterclass in confirmation bias.
You want to revoke and, if we do Leave, rejoin in prompt order.
There’s certainly a large constituency for that but don’t fall into a trap of thinking it’s where the centre of gravity of public opinion is.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.
I was watching Elementary last night (Pick, 10pm, Wednesdays) and, before that, winning magnificently at XCOM 2. I gather the statement was an utterly damp squib, just bleating for MPs to support her, yes?
Bleating is too kind. Sheep are cute. This was a particularly aggressive crow cawing to defend its territory despite the fact both its wings are broken. The overwhelming sense is please, someone, put it out of its misery.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
SKY: ANALYSIS Theresa May turns offensive after charm fails: The charm falls very flat as Mrs May manages to offend the very people she needs to persuade to vote for her Brexit deal.
That's angry, but when does it convert into actual resignation. I've never heard so many month of angry briefings, but she's still in place. Maybe last night was the last straw for them, but we'll have to see.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
Also interesting that most of the Irish border areas are like yeah whatever
I suspect that many of those people in that area most bothered by the border are also people who do not recognise the legitimacy of the Westminster Parliament's jurisdiction over Northern Ireland, so they're hardly likely to sign a petition to it.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
So what?
It's a part of the public discussion of Brexit, and is pretty strong evidence that a lot more people find revoking appealing than no deal. It may be too late, and I think it probably is, but ultimately that has to factor into MPs voting behaviour. But if revocation doesn't happen it will certainly be very encouraging for the rejoin campaign which will no doubt be forming once we leave.
That’s a masterclass in confirmation bias.
You want to revoke and, if we do Leave, rejoin in prompt order.
There’s certainly a large constituency for that but don’t fall into a trap of thinking it’s where the centre of gravity of public opinion is.
I don't know where the centre of gravity in public opinion is. But confirmation bias aside, we both know which direction it is travelling in.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
Im surprised youre still living here :-)
Unlike you, I have no easy way out. In all seriousness, though, if I were a younger man without the responsibilities I now have I’d definitely be looking to leave the UK. It’s certainly not a country I feel proud to be from these days and its prospects are poor.
I’d be interested in a transcript of that discussion
It seems unlikely - I suspect she may be making it up / exaggerating for effect
Why does it seem unlikely? If she has made it up her Tweet would be actionable.
Well presumably it was in the green room or equivalent. I suspect that he tried to continue the discussion from the sofa. But “abuse and intimidate” doesn’t seem realistic from an objective standpoint.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
Good to hear Sir Oliver Letwin on R4 this morning. A reminder that there are still some decent parliamentarians motivated by a sense of duty to the country, and a consequent desire to find a workable compromise.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.
And the worst of it is that - even if by some miracle May does manage to bludgeon her deal through - there will be no goodwill or stable consensus for all the decisions that need to be taken thereafter, nor for the bigger task of fixing our future that lies ahead. May is focused entirely on getting through the next few days and thereafter we will once again be adrift.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
I agree up to a point, but we're under no unexpected organisational or economic/administrative pressure yet. It's become a cliche, but we're now just coming up to a week away from such a test, if things continue in the same way.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
There was one noteworthy thing from May's speech - apart from how dishonest and, literally irresponsible it was: she mentioned No Deal but didn't argue against it, unlike extension or referendum.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
I disagree. Failure comes in many forms. Ceasing to exist as a consequence of an inability to build consensus is one measure, for example; as are deliberate self-harm, international humiliation and the ceding of all control to foreign powers.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
So what can we expect first? A confidence vote by Tory MPs in her leadership of the party? A vote of no confidence in whats left of her government? A new record sized defeat for her deal (allowed by Bercow as he knows it'll be a massive NO again) Accidental no deal crash out next Friday night
OK so May has shown herself unfit to be PM but not for the reasons popularly stated.
Given all the mistakes she made (and there were many) the deal she negotiated was just about the best possible. She is right that it is MPs who have refused to pursue the least bad, most pragmatic. Her deal is just about the only sensible way forward.
It is how she has handled its passage including notably last night that marks her out as manifestly not up to the job.
Good to hear Sir Oliver Letwin on R4 this morning. A reminder that there are still some decent parliamentarians motivated by a sense of duty to the country, and a consequent desire to find a workable compromise.
The idea that there is a workable compromise at this stage is the problem - at this moment the best advice would be to pause the project in such a way that we can continue afterwards
Revoking knowing and ensure the courts will rule the revoking illegal is the perfect way to restart the clock
There was one noteworthy thing from May's speech - apart from how dishonest and, literally irresponsible it was: she mentioned No Deal but didn't argue against it, unlike extension or referendum.
And the rate of signing on the Revoke Article 50 petition is back up to the 1,000+ per minute it was managing yesterday. At this rate it will hit a million sometime this evening.
Until recently, although I voted Remain and thought leaving was a stupid decision, I always thought it was right to honour the result of the referendum, provided we didn't leave without a deal.
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.
I think that's a pretty common journey. In my case I was arguing for May's deal at a dinner party last November, and going on the march on Saturday with the people I was arguing against. When the history books get to be written I think the story that will emerge will be of a potential consensus for leaving being thrown away.
And the worst of it is that - even if by some miracle May does manage to bludgeon her deal through - there will be no goodwill or stable consensus for all the decisions that need to be taken thereafter, nor for the bigger task of fixing our future that lies ahead. May is focused entirely on getting through the next few days and thereafter we will once again be adrift.
A deal followed by a leadership election focused on the shape of the future (and then a GE)!should create at least a discussion and mandate for the future
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
I disagree. Failure comes in many forms. Ceasing to exist as a consequence of an inability to build consensus is one measure, for example; as are deliberate self-harm, international humiliation and the ceding of all control to foreign powers.
Yes. Much of that can be summed up in the absolute, conscious failure to investigate any American and Russian interference in the most crucial and epochal constitutional change of the last seventy years.
We are at the point where in other countries the military would be taking over or the people would be in the streets or both. We are a failing state bereft of leadership with no coherent, credible alternative available. The deceptions and delusions of Brexit have destroyed us.
The fact that neither the army nor people are in the streets shows that we are not a failing state.
Comments
If the choices are not as she says they can pick something else.
If they try but find she is right about the choices then moaning about those choices is pointless, moaning about her is pointless. They would still need to decide which of several options they dont like they must choose.
It is clear objection to the deal is hardening as Labour MPs, who are the only ones with the numbers to save it, are by their words tonight essentially committing to oppose it. How could they now justify voting for it, when they are busy being offended at the way May frames the choice?
That being so they all have no excuses for not definitively choosing something else at the earliest opportunity.
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1108607878057861120
May’s political mistake on Brexit is very similar. When she applied for an article 50 extension this week, she should have recognised the verdict. The old policy is dead. Even now, she could still turn to the country and remind us that she has done everything she conceivably could to get the Brexit she preferred. With regret, she could say, we must now go in a different direction, perhaps leaving the EU but preserving the benefits from the single market and customs alignment. It wouldn’t please all the marchers any more than it would persuade the European Research Group. But it would be pretty popular, all the same.
The overarching question that faces British politics is not whether May’s Brexit policy will succeed – because it has failed. Until Wednesday, the succession was a secondary issue, because the arithmetic in the House of Commons will not change. Now, though, parliament is faced by both questions. The country needs a new Brexit policy, and it may soon need a new leader to try to implement it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/20/uk-politicians-ignore-mass-public-protests-peril-theresa-may-tony-blair
400 000.
I see the Prime Minister's deal received an extra signature overnight, taking it to 49.
The flaw is that Truss is a gaffe prone half wit, though that would still be a step up from May.
Edit: A not very complicated script could be written that would email each MP when the number of signatures for the revoke petition exceeded the number for the no deal petition. And then when it reaches 50% more, 100%, etc. Alas, I have to document the code for a black box today.
And currently at 7am 20 people a second are signing it...
But it is a demonstration of how Brexit is being undemocratically imposed against the will of the people, so will be a very helpful card for the rejoin campaign down the road.
Well, knock me down with a feather.
https://bbc.in/2Fpr8nV
This is why May’s Deal will never pass: we’re moving to a straight No Deal v. Revoke fight.
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=241584
Say what you like about Heidi Allen but she represents her voters.
Macron calls in the army to deal with gilets jaunes
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/citations/2019/03/20/25002-20190320ARTFIG00241-gilets-jaunes-les-chefs-de-parti-s-echarpent-sur-le-recours-a-l-armee.php
Or 49 in @Casino_Royale counting.
It seems unlikely - I suspect she may be making it up / exaggerating for effect
But what's happening now is plain ridiculous, so I've signed it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/20/french-feel-nothing-pity-basil-fawlty-brexit/
The Student Anarchist within me does give a little "Yay!".
I was watching Elementary last night (Pick, 10pm, Wednesdays) and, before that, winning magnificently at XCOM 2. I gather the statement was an utterly damp squib, just bleating for MPs to support her, yes?
Thatcher or May?
Which woman to they hate more?
You want to revoke and, if we do Leave, rejoin in prompt order.
There’s certainly a large constituency for that but don’t fall into a trap of thinking it’s where the centre of gravity of public opinion is.
Theresa May turns offensive after charm fails: The charm falls very flat as Mrs May manages to offend the very people she needs to persuade to vote for her Brexit deal.
I've never heard so many month of angry briefings, but she's still in place. Maybe last night was the last straw for them, but we'll have to see.
It’s stupid, but that’s where we’re at.
Scrap the project and start again
or continue and see what happens..
either way management is going to lose their jobs the question is do we adopt the sane approach or do we go all in...
I’m curious whether her threshold is.
The army is merely on standby:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46910535
A confidence vote by Tory MPs in her leadership of the party?
A vote of no confidence in whats left of her government?
A new record sized defeat for her deal (allowed by Bercow as he knows it'll be a massive NO again)
Accidental no deal crash out next Friday night
Given all the mistakes she made (and there were many) the deal she negotiated was just about the best possible. She is right that it is MPs who have refused to pursue the least bad, most pragmatic. Her deal is just about the only sensible way forward.
It is how she has handled its passage including notably last night that marks her out as manifestly not up to the job.
Revoking knowing and ensure the courts will rule the revoking illegal is the perfect way to restart the clock