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That's true. But unlike opinion polls I can get a feel for the actual thinking behind the views they hold. And the thinking is very different to what we talk about on this forum. I for instance favour remaining, but I can see that on balance some kind of Norway option wouldn't be too bad and I could probably live with it. Talking to my daughter her reaction to the calling of the referendum was 'why would anybody want to leave the EU?'. It was a question I was very able to answer as it has always for me been a matter that could be debated. But she didn't really follow any of the arguments.another_richard said:
You're clearly talking to a very narrow sub-section of the population.Recidivist said:
.another_richard said:
How many young people start their own business ?Recidivist said:
What would you describe a young person who starts a small business as other than aspirant?another_richard said:
There may be problems between the Conservatives and big business but small businesses seems solid for the Conservatives.Recidivist said:
B.kle4 said:
here.Recidivist said:
And cabinet members opposing the PM and party policy in the press is just one of those things?MarqueeMark said:That argument between Watson and Formby sounds awfully like the death-rattle of Labour...
If there was a risk that the Conservatives would lose small business support it would be to a 2015 UKIP.
The 2017 GE and the opinion polls since show no evidence that small business support is going to another party.
Where the Conservatives have lost out is among the aspirant young through tuition fees, unaffordable housing etc.
And they might be desperate or deluded rather than aspirant.
They also might be more Conservative inclined than the average young person.
Now we all do that to a greater or lesser degree but its unwise to draw too many, and too wide, conclusions from our personal experiences.
In some ways the fact that the attempt to leave the EU has been bungled and may well now fail is a red herring. It could have been carried out with ruthless efficiency. We could be definitely leaving later this month. It wouldn't have altered the fact that once our cohort has moved on Britain will simply rejoin - probably with the minimum of fuss and argument.
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The other characteristic the two share is excessive self-righteousness.Cyclefree said:
Corbyn has throughout his career been one of the most disloyal Labour MPs of all. He also invited to Parliament in the days after the IRA killed the wives of Tory MPs in Brighton the men who ordered those killings.Roger said:
It's all relative but I can't imagine him writing letters behind his leaders back as Watson did with Blair or reporting Leon Britten to the Met police for being a paedophile without evidence.Cyclefree said:Roger said:
Yes. Watson is driven by naked ambition. The extent of his interest in anti semitism is virtue signalling about a subject he has no knowledge of in the hope of becoming a leadership contender. Corbyn's faults are out-dated policies and lack of leadership abilities but essentially for a Labour leader at least his hearts in the right place.rottenborough said:
Seriously?Roger said:
I think that's right. However bad many of us think Corbyn is Watson is infinitely worsedaodao said:
One of Labour's problems at present stems from the way the deputy leader is chosen, i.e. independently from the leader. The trouble-maker Watson (who has form for sedition) needs to be dispatched and replaced by a Corbynite. His latest action has correctly been called out by the party secretary Formby.SquareRoot said:Not sure its about the blame game anymore. Labour have split into three different groupings, you can hear the tearing apart noises in Sussex.
No. Corbyn’s heart is not in the right place.
If you look at Watson's history a pattern emerges of a particular type of disloyal self aggrandising sleazeball. I don't sense that with Corbyn
Yeah: I’d say that makes him both disloyal and a sleazeball.
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Thread with highlights from Barnier’s interview in El Mundo.
https://twitter.com/suanzes/status/1101773676498862082?s=21
https://twitter.com/suanzes/status/1101776829373968390?s=210 -
Juncker won't be around after July - his EPP nominated replacement is Manfred Weber. We may think Mr Juncker subtle by comparison given some of his recent comments.ydoethur said:
We should definitely make it a condition of the referendum that no politician from the EU mentions it at any point or in any way whatsoever and the Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Tusk are locked in an oubliette for the duration of the campaign.brendan16 said:
Presumably if the EU insists on a second referendum to agree the extension they will also make it a condition that Mrs May leads the campaign for her deal?Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
I can't think of any surer way to a no-deal calamity than having any of them try to help.0 -
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:
Good point.Sandpit said:
There’s thousands of excellent online courses, the issue is trying to get meaningful qualifications at the end of it. The institutions that award the certificates have their expensive business model and don’t want to see it undermined.another_richard said:
How often do you buy something physical which was made abroad compared with how often do you buy a service which was made abroad.Sean_F said:
We have a services surplus of £28bn with the EU. Even if that fell by two thirds, which seems excessive if the WA is passed, it's still equivalent to a very small proportion of service sector output. What I find striking is how small international trade in services is, compared to trade in goods.FF43 said:
It was some work by Sam Lowe, I think. He looked at UK exports through GATS modes 2 and 4 (cross border supply and presence of persons), which would no longer be supported by the trade agreement. Although a chunk of the business would move to Mode 3 (in country subsidiaries), UK employment and tax revenues would be lost.Sean_F said:
Where is the two thirds estimate taken from?FF43 said:
You don't think people will miss the jobs and opportunities they used to have, or the funding for hospitals etc. If trade in services with the EU is cut by two thirds, which is the estimation, that will impact real wealth and real jobs.Sean_F said:
I've always been convinced that a single market in services required far too much harmonisation of laws to be acceptable to us or a lot of European voters. What we don't have, we won't miss.Cyclefree said:.
If the Deal passes, it will be because enough people see it as second best. No Deal and Remain or more popular, but also more loathed.
International trade in services is concentrated in a few sectors - tourism, high end finance, some professional and educational services.
I'm rather surprised that low cost education and training via the internet isn't a bigger thing.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.0 -
I was assuming we would have to find a way to hold a referendum before then. That's one of the reasons why I'm confident it won't happen.brendan16 said:
Juncker won't be around after July - his EPP nominated replacement is Manfred Weber. We may think Mr Juncker subtle by comparison given some of his recent comments.ydoethur said:
We should definitely make it a condition of the referendum that no politician from the EU mentions it at any point or in any way whatsoever and the Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Tusk are locked in an oubliette for the duration of the campaign.brendan16 said:
Presumably if the EU insists on a second referendum to agree the extension they will also make it a condition that Mrs May leads the campaign for her deal?Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
I can't think of any surer way to a no-deal calamity than having any of them try to help.0 -
Which is fine. Democracy is what it is. The whole saga has been a reminder that the gritty reality of democratic consent matters. The UK/EU relationship has created a clear democratic deficit and with a bit of good fortune this will be avoided in future.Recidivist said:
That's true. But unlike opinion polls I can get a feel for the actual thinking behind the views they hold. And the thinking is very different to what we talk about on this forum. I for instance favour remaining, but I can see that on balance some kind of Norway option wouldn't be too bad and I could probably live with it. Talking to my daughter her reaction to the calling of the referendum was 'why would anybody want to leave the EU?'. It was a question I was very able to answer as it has always for me been a matter that could be debated. But she didn't really follow any of the arguments.another_richard said:
You're clearly talking to a very narrow sub-section of the population.Recidivist said:
.another_richard said:
How many young people start their own business ?Recidivist said:
What would you describe a young person who starts a small business as other than aspirant?another_richard said:
There may be problems between the Conservatives and big business but small businesses seems solid for the Conservatives.Recidivist said:
B.kle4 said:
here.Recidivist said:
And cabinet members opposing the PM and party policy in the press is just one of those things?MarqueeMark said:That argument between Watson and Formby sounds awfully like the death-rattle of Labour...
If there was a risk that the Conservatives would lose small business support it would be to a 2015 UKIP.
The 2017 GE and the opinion polls since show no evidence that small business support is going to another party.
Where the Conservatives have lost out is among the aspirant young through tuition fees, unaffordable housing etc.
And they might be desperate or deluded rather than aspirant.
They also might be more Conservative inclined than the average young person.
Now we all do that to a greater or lesser degree but its unwise to draw too many, and too wide, conclusions from our personal experiences.
In some ways the fact that the attempt to leave the EU has been bungled and may well now fail is a red herring. It could have been carried out with ruthless efficiency. We could be definitely leaving later this month. It wouldn't have altered the fact that once our cohort has moved on Britain will simply rejoin - probably with the minimum of fuss and argument.
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Even on Yougov's numbers 43% of the youngest voters find the WA good or acceptable, rising to 61% for soft Brexit. 30% prefer No Deal to a second referendum.Recidivist said:
That's true. But unlike opinion polls I can get a feel for the actual thinking behind the views they hold. And the thinking is very different to what we talk about on this forum. I for instance favour remaining, but I can see that on balance some kind of Norway option wouldn't be too bad and I could probably live with it. Talking to my daughter her reaction to the calling of the referendum was 'why would anybody want to leave the EU?'. It was a question I was very able to answer as it has always for me been a matter that could be debated. But she didn't really follow any of the arguments.another_richard said:
You're clearly talking to a very narrow sub-section of the population.Recidivist said:
.another_richard said:
How many young people start their own business ?Recidivist said:
What would you describe a young person who starts a small business as other than aspirant?another_richard said:
There may be problems between the Conservatives and big business but small businesses seems solid for the Conservatives.Recidivist said:
B.kle4 said:
here.Recidivist said:
And cabinet members opposing the PM and party policy in the press is just one of those things?MarqueeMark said:That argument between Watson and Formby sounds awfully like the death-rattle of Labour...
If there was a risk that the Conservatives would lose small business support it would be to a 2015 UKIP.
The 2017 GE and the opinion polls since show no evidence that small business support is going to another party.
Where the Conservatives have lost out is among the aspirant young through tuition fees, unaffordable housing etc.
And they might be desperate or deluded rather than aspirant.
They also might be more Conservative inclined than the average young person.
Now we all do that to a greater or lesser degree but its unwise to draw too many, and too wide, conclusions from our personal experiences.
In some ways the fact that the attempt to leave the EU has been bungled and may well now fail is a red herring. It could have been carried out with ruthless efficiency. We could be definitely leaving later this month. It wouldn't have altered the fact that once our cohort has moved on Britain will simply rejoin - probably with the minimum of fuss and argument.0 -
I think there are many obstacles to Weber getting the job. The main one being that if he did get the job it will basically be a clean sweep of Germans at the top. The Eastern Europeans, Italians and the Greeks will I think oppose it. Other countries will also think very hard about the consequences.brendan16 said:
Juncker won't be around after July - his EPP nominated replacement is Manfred Weber. We may think Mr Juncker subtle by comparison given some of his recent comments.ydoethur said:
We should definitely make it a condition of the referendum that no politician from the EU mentions it at any point or in any way whatsoever and the Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Tusk are locked in an oubliette for the duration of the campaign.brendan16 said:
Presumably if the EU insists on a second referendum to agree the extension they will also make it a condition that Mrs May leads the campaign for her deal?Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
I can't think of any surer way to a no-deal calamity than having any of them try to help.0 -
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
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That seems rather narrow.Recidivist said:
Business owners that supply the domestic market would include people like window cleaners. I only know one of those - only having one set of windows.Sean_F said:
40% of AB voters supported Brexit. That proportion would be far lower among City workers and exporters to the EU, as well as university workers; but higher among occupations like solicitors, accountants, and business owners that supply the domestic market.Recidivist said:
Large numbers of older working class voters still support Labour. My point was that the automatic link was broken. I am not convinced the minority of business folk who support Brexit is very big.Sean_F said:
Loads of business and professional people support the Conservatives, in my experience. After all, a large minority of them are anti-EU.Recidivist said:
Both parties have the problem that their one time strongest supporters no longer like them very much. Older working class voters don't seem keen on what Labour has become. The link between the Conservatives and small businesses has completely vanished. The winner will be the one that creates a new support base most effectively. I am not sure which one I'd back.kle4 said:
Ha. True, that's pretty remarkable and worrying for them. Divisions over Brexit could wreck the Tories yet. But it does feel like that is the only major problem within that party, whereas Labour have several issues at play here.Recidivist said:
And cabinet members opposing the PM and party policy in the press is just one of those things?MarqueeMark said:That argument between Watson and Formby sounds awfully like the death-rattle of Labour...
Approximately three quarters of SME's don't trade abroad. You don't know anyone in the hospitality industry? Or tradesmen like electricians, plumbers etc? No pub landlord or restauranteur? Accountants or solicitors?
Could explain why you've got such a narrow viewpoint on business. I suspect the proportion of electricians etc who voted for Brexit is not tiny. No idea if its a majority or minority but it will be around half one way or another.0 -
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.0 -
I think the other problems he has include:ralphmalph said:
I think there are many obstacles to Weber getting the job. The main one being that if he did get the job it will basically be a clean sweep of Germans at the top. The Eastern Europeans, Italians and the Greeks will I think oppose it. Other countries will also think very hard about the consequences.brendan16 said:
Juncker won't be around after July - his EPP nominated replacement is Manfred Weber. We may think Mr Juncker subtle by comparison given some of his recent comments.ydoethur said:
We should definitely make it a condition of the referendum that no politician from the EU mentions it at any point or in any way whatsoever and the Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Tusk are locked in an oubliette for the duration of the campaign.brendan16 said:
Presumably if the EU insists on a second referendum to agree the extension they will also make it a condition that Mrs May leads the campaign for her deal?Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
I can't think of any surer way to a no-deal calamity than having any of them try to help.
1) the outcome of the election is uncertain and it is far from clear the EPP will have the votes to put forward a candidate of their own and make it stick;
2) The EU are aware that Juncker having proved such an utter fiasco the system he was chosen with is discredited and will therefore be amenable to a clean break from it by picking a total outsider.
Frankly I think Barnier would be a value bet. He's high profile, personally popular and available. I don't think he's a great candidate, but that might not be the most important factor if they reach for a compromise outsider.0 -
Do you have evidence for that?Sandpit said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:Good point.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Maybe for large corporations with HR departments looking for someone green they can train. In my experience the first question employers have is what can you do and what experience do you have. Again probably a difference between SMEs and large corporations.0 -
Barnier's only available if Brexit is finalised and a deal is ratified. Otherwise if this is dragging on his availability and reputation could take a hit.ydoethur said:
I think the other problems he has include:ralphmalph said:
I think there are many obstacles to Weber getting the job. The main one being that if he did get the job it will basically be a clean sweep of Germans at the top. The Eastern Europeans, Italians and the Greeks will I think oppose it. Other countries will also think very hard about the consequences.brendan16 said:
Juncker won't be around after July - his EPP nominated replacement is Manfred Weber. We may think Mr Juncker subtle by comparison given some of his recent comments.ydoethur said:
We should definitely make it a condition of the referendum that no politician from the EU mentions it at any point or in any way whatsoever and the Juncker, Barnier, Selmayr and Tusk are locked in an oubliette for the duration of the campaign.brendan16 said:
Presumably if the EU insists on a second referendum to agree the extension they will also make it a condition that Mrs May leads the campaign for her deal?Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
I can't think of any surer way to a no-deal calamity than having any of them try to help.
1) the outcome of the election is uncertain and it is far from clear the EPP will have the votes to put forward a candidate of their own and make it stick;
2) The EU are aware that Juncker having proved such an utter fiasco the system he was chosen with is discredited and will therefore be amenable to a clean break from it by picking a total outsider.
Frankly I think Barnier would be a value bet. He's high profile, personally popular and available. I don't think he's a great candidate, but that might not be the most important factor if they reach for a compromise outsider.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?0 -
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.Sandpit said:
Good point.another_richard said:
There’s thousands of excellent online courses, the issue is trying to get meaningful qualifications at the end of it. The institutions that award the certificates have their expensive business model and don’t want to see it undermined.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
But that only impacts the last qualification before first hiring. For the whole world of continuing education and professional educational credits, online is taking over rapidly. And, in my view, that is the biggest growth sector in the industry.
Furthermore, in the US at least, campus education is getting too expensive to be unsustainable. More and more universities are going the online route, or at least a hybrid route. This is particularly true for universities targeting those gaining degrees as adults, and those tend to be more vocational degrees than high school graduates select.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Under a fortnight until the first race of the F1 season, when we find out who sandbagged the most.0 -
But that only impacts the last qualification before first hiring. For the whole world of continuing education and professional educational credits, online is taking over rapidly. And, in my view, that is the biggest growth sector in the industry.MTimT said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.Sandpit said:
Good point.another_richard said:
There’s thousands of excellent online courses, the issue is trying to get meaningful qualifications at the end of it. The institutions that award the certificates have their expensive business model and don’t want to see it undermined.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Furthermore, in the US at least, campus education is getting too expensive to be unsustainable. More and more universities are going the online route, or at least a hybrid route. This is particularly true for universities targeting those gaining degrees as adults, and those tend to be more vocational degrees than high school graduates select.
Sorry, got the quotes thing wrong there. The last two paras are mine.0 -
Not sure what point you're trying to prove.Streeter said:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.0 -
A big assumption that sometime in the future there will be a LAB government. Maybe Gordon Brown's departure from Downing Street on May 11th 2010 was the last time ever that the party was in power.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.0 -
To my mind the stupidity in question has been more on the part of self-serving politicians than the electorate.CD13 said:Mr Chris,
Insulting the voters isn't always the best way to gain those votes.
But I'm quite happy to amend my characterisation to read:
"Complying with our treaty obligations in return for your helping us get out of this appalling mess we've got ourselves into through our own actions."
Any argument now?0 -
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
The original observation was about voters, not the Government. Are you agreeing with him that we should take more account of Tory voters during the period of a Tory government?Philip_Thompson said:
Not sure what point you're trying to prove.Streeter said:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.
That sounds like a very dangerous form of democracy to me.0 -
Maybe. But we've only had one govt since 1945 that wasn't either LAB or CON. Labour is the biggest party in terms of membership. And the Conservatives are sufficiently split over Brexit for them to be losing MPs and for cabinet collective responsibility to have broken down. I'd say there is at least as good a chance of May being the last Tory PM. But a continuing duopoly must be the most likely.MikeSmithson said:
A big assumption that sometime in the future there will be a LAB government. Maybe Gordon Brown's departure from Downing Street on May 11th 2010 was the last time ever that the party was in power.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.0 -
Surely no argument that 2010 was the last time that Labour was in power?MikeSmithson said:
A big assumption that sometime in the future there will be a LAB government. Maybe Gordon Brown's departure from Downing Street on May 11th 2010 was the last time ever that the party was in power.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.0 -
MTimT said:
But that only impacts the last qualification before first hiring. For the whole world of continuing education and professional educational credits, online is taking over rapidly. And, in my view, that is the biggest growth sector in the industry.MTimT said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.Sandpit said:
Good point.another_richard said:
There’s thousands of excellent online courses, the issue is trying to get meaningful qualifications at the end of it. The institutions that award the certificates have their expensive business model and don’t want to see it undermined.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Furthermore, in the US at least, campus education is getting too expensive to be unsustainable. More and more universities are going the online route, or at least a hybrid route. This is particularly true for universities targeting those gaining degrees as adults, and those tend to be more vocational degrees than high school graduates select.
In practical terms online education is already a huge thing - it's called YouTube. If you want to know how to bake a cake, fix a leaking tap or sing a tricky anthem there is probably at least one video telling you how. The same is true of many academic subjects (although here I can spot when they are misleading, over-simplyfing or outright wrong in my own subject at least).
Learning things has never been easier. Proving to someone else that you have is the tricky part, particularly at university level.
I’m probably too old to worry about it, but this should have a huge impact on teaching in the next few decades.0 -
I do not think she will but Labour should allow her the chance to do so. If there is to be a 2nd referendum it is probably less bad for the Tories if they are able to say that Labour forced it on them.Dadge said:I don't think Labour needs to amend its motion; I predict that after May fails again to get her agreement passed, she'll pivot to putting it to a referendum.
0 -
That indeed is the first question the hiring manager asks, the issue is getting in front of him in the first place and past the HR droid or recruiter who just sees boxes not ticked without having a clue about the actual job. This mentality is moving from large corporates down the chain to medium-sized firms too.Philip_Thompson said:
Do you have evidence for that?Sandpit said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:Good point.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Maybe for large corporations with HR departments looking for someone green they can train. In my experience the first question employers have is what can you do and what experience do you have. Again probably a difference between SMEs and large corporations.0 -
Mercedes.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Under a fortnight until the first race of the F1 season, when we find out who sandbagged the most.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, maybe Red Bull? Williams?0
-
I agree. In particular, Barnier would be a really good choice if one wants the Commission to stick to being a serious civil service without political ambitions. He lacks charisma, which Juncker has in a certain jovial, indiscreet, Boris-like way, but probably most national governments don't really want that.ydoethur said:
Frankly I think Barnier would be a value bet. He's high profile, personally popular and available. I don't think he's a great candidate, but that might not be the most important factor if they reach for a compromise outsider.0 -
Boxes not ticked can be a issue with recruiting good teachers as well. We had a problem with one who we wanted to teach Physics as he did not have GCSE maths: his PhD in Physics and previous job as a professor (of Physics) in an American University didn’t count...Sandpit said:
That indeed is the first question the hiring manager asks, the issue is getting in front of him in the first place and past the HR droid or recruiter who just sees boxes not ticked without having a clue about the actual job. This mentality is moving from large corporates down the chain to medium-sized firms too.Philip_Thompson said:
Do you have evidence for that?Sandpit said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:Good point.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Maybe for large corporations with HR departments looking for someone green they can train. In my experience the first question employers have is what can you do and what experience do you have. Again probably a difference between SMEs and large corporations.0 -
This is a betting site and as far as betting what outcome will occur yes absolutely the views of the government's voters will count more than the views of the opposition voters as the government [and the government's MPs] will instinctively and for self-preservation act along the lines of what their own voters want. That's both why they're of the same party as their own voters and part of their own electoral appeal.Streeter said:
The original observation was about voters, not the Government. Are you agreeing with him that we should take more account of Tory voters during the period of a Tory government?Philip_Thompson said:Not sure what point you're trying to prove.
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.
That sounds like a very dangerous form of democracy to me.
Is it right? In an ideal world maybe not. Is it dangerous? Not really as if the government goes too far looking after its own voters then they can be chucked out at the next election.
Again its part of democracy but its better than any alternatives. No alternative form of government has us as easily able to chuck out the government if they get it wrong.0 -
I’d love it to be Williams, but sadly don’t think that one is likely to come off.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, maybe Red Bull? Williams?
I think Red Bull might be fast but unreliable, same as last year.0 -
I don’t think either. Both had problems with running time - Williams obviously more so - and Kubica was quite clear that even his last day running was hampered by a lack of parts. Williams were simply not ready in time for testing.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, maybe Red Bull? Williams?
That said, Red Bull now have plenty of room to surprise.
0 -
Doubt it. They have real setup problems, and a possible ‘diva’ car again.Sandpit said:
Mercedes.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Under a fortnight until the first race of the F1 season, when we find out who sandbagged the most.
If they solve them, they will be quick, though.
The Ferrari looked incredibly well sorted from its first run. Whether its ultimate pace is sufficient for the WC is unknowable at this point, but they’ve got a head start.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, I don't think Williams will be world-beaters, I'm just saying the performance to expectations gap will be relatively large.
Mr. B, for the Constructors, Mercedes may be in some trouble if your diva prediction is correct. Leclerc's the real deal, almost certainly, and Vettel's got a quartet of titles. It's a damned good lineup, assuming a Hamilton-Alonso scenario doesn't develop.0 -
0
-
True. I wonder whether contemporaries of David Lloyd George ever thought he'd be the last Liberal PM?MikeSmithson said:
A big assumption that sometime in the future there will be a LAB government. Maybe Gordon Brown's departure from Downing Street on May 11th 2010 was the last time ever that the party was in power.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
And its entirely possible a TIG and Corbyn's Labour split could be as real as the Liberals between Asquith and Lloyd George in 1922 seeing them both drop down and stay down even after the parties reunite.0 -
But none of that really applies with a minority government.Philip_Thompson said:
Not sure what point you're trying to prove.Streeter said:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.
0 -
Yes it does. Especially when that minority is very close to a majority and has a majority with allies.Nigelb said:
But none of that really applies with a minority government.Philip_Thompson said:
Not sure what point you're trying to prove.Streeter said:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.
Just as in Germany Frau Merkel's parties voters get what they want more than opposition parties voters like the AfD.0 -
Much will come down to the two teams’ relative competence during the season.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, I don't think Williams will be world-beaters, I'm just saying the performance to expectations gap will be relatively large.
Mr. B, for the Constructors, Mercedes may be in some trouble if your diva prediction is correct. Leclerc's the real deal, almost certainly, and Vettel's got a quartet of titles. It's a damned good lineup, assuming a Hamilton-Alonso scenario doesn't develop.
Mercedes were clearly the better at development and race management last year. Will it be the same this year, or can Ferrari get their act together ? They clearly have a competitive car.
I’ve closed out my championship bet for a nice profit (why wait for the rest of the season ?), and again looking for opportunities...
0 -
Yes, that's a division which also appears big time in party preference and deserves study. Labour has a sustained lead among people in work; Conservatives have a sustained lead among retirees, even relatively young ones. I'm not really sure why - perhaps there's still an instinctive feeling that if you're working for someone, you need a government friendly to employees? But there must be more to it than that.williamglenn said:
The more important dividing line among the AB group was between workers and retirees.
On loyalty, to pick up a passing comment from Cyclefree - most party loyalists are not really too bothered if MPs frequently express a different view to the leadership, especially if it's further left and therefore more of a "try harder" argument than a gift to the Conservatives - we may see it as unrealistic, but as Roger says we feel we see a heart in the right place. If they attack the leadership personally, write articles for the Mail attacking their own party, etc., then loyalists start to eye the deselection button. Corbyn, whatever his faults, has never done either of those things.
Much the same applies in reverse to the Tories, I expect. Someone like Rees-Mogg, critical of policy but not abusive about May, is seen by members as having the right instincts, even if his ideas aren't quite feasible. I doubt if most Tories would say he was disloyal.0 -
Mr. B, don't recall the date but Raikkone got out to 61 (with fifth top 3 available) after the first few races of 2018. May be worth keeping an eye for something like that.
Edited extra bit: +n0 -
There is a distinction to be made between the views of party members, and the view of voters. For both parties, their memberships’ views are radically at odds with a significant proportion of their voters’.NickPalmer said:
Yes, that's a division which also appears big time in party preference and deserves study. Labour has a sustained lead among people in work; Conservatives have a sustained lead among retirees, even relatively young ones. I'm not really sure why - perhaps there's still an instinctive feeling that if you're working for someone, you need a government friendly to employees? But there must be more to it than that.williamglenn said:
The more important dividing line among the AB group was between workers and retirees.
On loyalty, to pick up a passing comment from Cyclefree - most party loyalists are not really too bothered if MPs frequently express a different view to the leadership, especially if it's further left and therefore more of a "try harder" argument than a gift to the Conservatives - we may see it as unrealistic, but as Roger says we feel we see a heart in the right place. If they attack the leadership personally, write articles for the Mail attacking their own party, etc., then loyalists start to eye the deselection button. Corbyn, whatever his faults, has never done either of those things.
Much the same applies in reverse to the Tories, I expect. Someone like Rees-Mogg, critical of policy but not abusive about May, is seen by members as having the right instincts, even if his ideas aren't quite feasible. I doubt if most Tories would say he was disloyal.
0 -
Only a couple of weeks until the fun starts.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, don't recall the date but Raikkone got out to 61 (with fifth top 3 available) after the first few races of 2018. May be worth keeping an eye for something like that.
Edited extra bit: +n
0 -
Quite clearly not with Brexit. The next three weeks will be interesting.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does. Especially when that minority is very close to a majority and has a majority with allies.Nigelb said:
But none of that really applies with a minority government.Philip_Thompson said:
Not sure what point you're trying to prove.Streeter said:Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they do, because their representatives are the ones that sit on the government benches.Streeter said:
Tory votes count for more because we have a Tory government?brendan16 said:
Sorry - I misread the figures highlighted in grey as being the current figures as they didn't reproduce the dates on the third page and headline it as 'weighted sample'. It could of course just be the unseasonably warm weather causing people to become confused about what they really want!williamglenn said:
Those are the January figures. It's now moved to 39% good and 41% bad. Crossover approaching.brendan16 said:
Of course none of the options are exactly popular.williamglenn said:Interesting polling which suggests the most popular outcome is now 'no Brexit'. Not only does it have the highest figures for it being a good outcome, but it has less opposition than May's deal or No Deal.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/nevch5kcuu/Brexit update 1.pdf
What if the outcome was we had a second referendum and voted to remain in the EU.
Would you consider this to be a good outcome 37%
Would you consider this to be a bad outcome 43%
But even you admit despite all the current chaos more people think a second referendum and a remain outcome would be a bad not a good outcome!! And Tory voters reject that by 67 to 19% - and we do nominally have a Conservative PM and government.
Well it’s a view.
When we had a Labour government and when we have one next time their votes will count more as far as what happens is concerned.
Gawd bless ya Guv’nor, hain’t it a luvverly day?
Like it or loathe it, its the government not the Opposition whose views counts more as they set the law. At an election everyone's say counts the same but after the election and before the next one it is the election winners who take control. That's democracy for you.
If you object to democracy I'd love to hear a better solution.
Just as in Germany Frau Merkel's parties voters get what they want more than opposition parties voters like the AfD.
0 -
That's due to splits within the parties and MPs own passionate views in many instances trumping their own voters preferences. However even there given how much of Parliament is Remain backing MPs if others parties voters counted more that the government's voters we'd be nailed on for a second referendum. The fact its still odds-against is because the government's voters would hate it so the government will avoid it at all costs.Nigelb said:
Quite clearly not with Brexit. The next three weeks will be interesting.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does. Especially when that minority is very close to a majority and has a majority with allies.Nigelb said:But none of that really applies with a minority government.
Just as in Germany Frau Merkel's parties voters get what they want more than opposition parties voters like the AfD.
A referendum will only happen as a last resort not a first preference.0 -
I started training to be a Physics teacher a few years ago and quite enjoyed learning to teach Physics (I've a PhD in Physics, but teaching is a skill in itself, of course). But I hated having to teach Biology too, as is expected of a science teacher, and that was the final straw that made me pack it in. Chemistry, no problem, and I'd have happily taught Maths or Computing, but no, they insisted that I also had to teach Biology. So that was that :-(Fysics_Teacher said:
Boxes not ticked can be a issue with recruiting good teachers as well. We had a problem with one who we wanted to teach Physics as he did not have GCSE maths: his PhD in Physics and previous job as a professor (of Physics) in an American University didn’t count...Sandpit said:
That indeed is the first question the hiring manager asks, the issue is getting in front of him in the first place and past the HR droid or recruiter who just sees boxes not ticked without having a clue about the actual job. This mentality is moving from large corporates down the chain to medium-sized firms too.Philip_Thompson said:
Do you have evidence for that?Sandpit said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:Good point.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Maybe for large corporations with HR departments looking for someone green they can train. In my experience the first question employers have is what can you do and what experience do you have. Again probably a difference between SMEs and large corporations.0 -
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
I’ve been teaching since ‘92 and in that time I haven’t taught a single chemistry or biology class (ignoring the occasional cover lesson where work was set by the usual teacher). In most schools you would be the only specialist Physics teacher and could insist on only teaching Physics.FeersumEnjineeya said:
I started training to be a Physics teacher a few years ago and quite enjoyed learning to teach Physics (I've a PhD in Physics, but teaching is a skill in itself, of course). But I hated having to teach Biology too, as is expected of a science teacher, and that was the final straw that made me pack it in. Chemistry, no problem, and I'd have happily taught Maths or Computing, but no, they insisted that I also had to teach Biology. So that was that :-(Fysics_Teacher said:
Boxes not ticked can be a issue with recruiting good teachers as well. We had a problem with one who we wanted to teach Physics as he did not have GCSE maths: his PhD in Physics and previous job as a professor (of Physics) in an American University didn’t count...Sandpit said:
That indeed is the first question the hiring manager asks, the issue is getting in front of him in the first place and past the HR droid or recruiter who just sees boxes not ticked without having a clue about the actual job. This mentality is moving from large corporates down the chain to medium-sized firms too.Philip_Thompson said:
Do you have evidence for that?Sandpit said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.another_richard said:Good point.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Maybe for large corporations with HR departments looking for someone green they can train. In my experience the first question employers have is what can you do and what experience do you have. Again probably a difference between SMEs and large corporations.0 -
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
0 -
Tell the whips the price for their backing the deal is her resignation.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
As an exercise in irony, Republican activists labelling Democrats “batshit crazy” is up there...
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/432261-cpac-attendees-say-biden-poses-greatest-threat-to-trump0 -
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
That’s not a mechanism, so much as a bid whose bluff can be called.Philip_Thompson said:
Tell the whips the price for their backing the deal is her resignation.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
And they don’t have the greatest record on that score.
0 -
-
Of course its a mechanism and it would provide May with a dilemma. Its not too dissimilar to how Labour MPs led by Watson forced Blair out. Not everything needs to be a confidence vote.Nigelb said:
That’s not a mechanism, so much as a bid whose bluff can be called.Philip_Thompson said:
Tell the whips the price for their backing the deal is her resignation.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
And they don’t have the greatest record on that score.
Since she's going anyway she may see a deal ratified before the deadline as a price worth paying to go this year. She can see us through to Brexit, say job done and I was planning on going before the next election anyway, so now is my time to retire.0 -
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
This is based on earlier in the thread Big_G saying that Barnier on Sky has confirmed movement on the backstop to accomodate our concerns. I've not seen that personally so not sure what that's about.Foxy said:
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
The deal has issues but the backstop is the deal-breaker. If the backstop is dealt with the rest can be swallowed as a reasonable compromise, especially if we get a new PM to negotiate the trade deal which is the really important issue.0 -
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'0 -
Not just ERG that want May nowhere near the next stage of negotaitions.Foxy said:
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
Look at the complete fiasco she has made of the Deal. Election, WA - she won't have a chance for a hat-trick with the trade agreement.....0 -
Agree entirely. Education now is not about knowledge acquisition. Knowledge is, for the most part, now a commodity available at the push of a button.Fysics_Teacher said:MTimT said:
But that only impacts the last qualification before first hiring. For the whole world of continuing education and professional educational credits, online is taking over rapidly. And, in my view, that is the biggest growth sector in the industry.MTimT said:
Absolutely, they’re a fantastic resource and great for broadening one’s mind - but in the real world employers (well, HR departments rather than hiring managers) are looking increasingly for pieces of paper over real-world experience.Sandpit said:
Good point.another_richard said:
There’s thousands of excellent online courses, the issue is trying to get meaningful qualifications at the end of it. The institutions that award the certificates have their expensive business model and don’t want to see it undermined.
But for people who already have the needed qualifications then those 'unofficial' courses are highly useful in broadening your education and skills base.
Furthermore, in the US at least, campus education is getting too expensive to be unsustainable. More and more universities are going the online route, or at least a hybrid route. This is particularly true for universities targeting those gaining degrees as adults, and those tend to be more vocational degrees than high school graduates select.
In practical terms online education is already a huge thing - it's called YouTube. If you want to know how to bake a cake, fix a leaking tap or sing a tricky anthem there is probably at least one video telling you how. The same is true of many academic subjects (although here I can spot when they are misleading, over-simplyfing or outright wrong in my own subject at least).
Learning things has never been easier. Proving to someone else that you have is the tricky part, particularly at university level.
I’m probably too old to worry about it, but this should have a huge impact on teaching in the next few decades.
What is valuable is knowing the right questions to ask, and then all the tacit knowledge of knowing how to turn knowledge into effective action, particularly in complex situations. We make ourselves valuable in a knowledge economy by developing expertise in the sense that Gary Klein uses it - deep knowledge coupled with practical experience that enables us to apply pattern recognition decision-making in novel, urgent situations. That requires more doing that book knowledge.
At some point in the future, HR departments will catch on that books smarts is no longer a valid measure for employability, if it ever was.0 -
This interview?Philip_Thompson said:
This is based on earlier in the thread Big_G saying that Barnier on Sky has confirmed movement on the backstop to accomodate our concerns. I've not seen that personally so not sure what that's about.Foxy said:
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
The deal has issues but the backstop is the deal-breaker. If the backstop is dealt with the rest can be swallowed as a reasonable compromise, especially if we get a new PM to negotiate the trade deal which is the really important issue.
https://twitter.com/StefanieBolzen/status/1101761383832666112?s=190 -
That will be a first - Falconer can resign before even appointed.....Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Mark, something cannot end before it begins.
Unless you're suggesting a future Lord Falconer uses a muon-pen to write his resignation, the ink and document then travelling back in time to a period before he accepted the position from which he resigns.
Edited extra bit: I think it's muons that might break the normal function of time. Tachyons do too, as well. Should've gone for them to be safe.
Oh well.0 -
We ARE talking about right-wing Tory politicians.Foxy said:
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point0 -
If she tried, the '22 would just change the rules....brendan16 said:
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'
"No further challenge shall be made within twelve months after the Prime Minister has survived a Vote of No Confidence, unless letters from 20% of the Parliamentary Party are received....."0 -
They could, but would they ?MarqueeMark said:
If she tried, the '22 would just change the rules....brendan16 said:
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'
"No further challenge shall be made within twelve months after the Prime Minister has survived a Vote of No Confidence, unless letters from 20% of the Parliamentary Party are received....."
I think it would depend on a majority consensus as to who the next leader should be. I’m not convinced that exists.
0 -
0
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https://twitter.com/freakonometrics/status/1101316115496611845Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mark, something cannot end before it begins.
Unless you're suggesting a future Lord Falconer uses a muon-pen to write his resignation, the ink and document then travelling back in time to a period before he accepted the position from which he resigns.0 -
Mr. P, ha, that's rather good.
Time travel's used a lot in fiction but sometimes can be more interesting than others. Capaldi explaining the Bootstrap Paradox was good, and both the recent first series of Krypton and the latter series of Continuum had nice angles on alternate reality/history versions of people being evil, or preventing a necessary evil (destruction of Kandor City, in the former).0 -
There'll be a consensus. "Thanks Theresa, for all you've done. Now just fuck off....".Nigelb said:
They could, but would they ?MarqueeMark said:
If she tried, the '22 would just change the rules....brendan16 said:
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'
"No further challenge shall be made within twelve months after the Prime Minister has survived a Vote of No Confidence, unless letters from 20% of the Parliamentary Party are received....."
I think it would depend on a majority consensus as to who the next leader should be. I’m not convinced that exists.0 -
If it were that simple, she’d already be gone.MarqueeMark said:
There'll be a consensus. "Thanks Theresa, for all you've done. Now just fuck off....".Nigelb said:
They could, but would they ?MarqueeMark said:
If she tried, the '22 would just change the rules....brendan16 said:
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'
"No further challenge shall be made within twelve months after the Prime Minister has survived a Vote of No Confidence, unless letters from 20% of the Parliamentary Party are received....."
I think it would depend on a majority consensus as to who the next leader should be. I’m not convinced that exists.
0 -
If she lands her deal, she will get a second honeymoon.MarqueeMark said:
There'll be a consensus. "Thanks Theresa, for all you've done. Now just fuck off....".Nigelb said:
They could, but would they ?MarqueeMark said:
If she tried, the '22 would just change the rules....brendan16 said:
She can just renege on the deal afterwards can't she - and stay until at least November.MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
I think my quote of the week was on Gogglebox when they were featuring her interview about leaving the EU on 29 March still 'being within our grasp'.
'Even Mrs May doesn't seem to believe her b*llsh*t anymore!'
"No further challenge shall be made within twelve months after the Prime Minister has survived a Vote of No Confidence, unless letters from 20% of the Parliamentary Party are received....."
I think it would depend on a majority consensus as to who the next leader should be. I’m not convinced that exists.
And in any event, people don't want Boris now, they won't want him after.0 -
The aim was damage limitation. The outcome is damage maximisation.
These are not necessarily contradictory if you parse "no deal is better than a bad deal" in a non-standard way.0 -
I am not at all sure TM will go if she gets the deal through
She has a domestic agenda she wants to develop and she has said that post the WA, the HOC will have a much bigger role in the negotiations. I could imagine her creating a new committee, headed by a brexiteer, possibly Cox, as she delegates all responsibility to that committee allowing her to concentrate on her priorities.
A time will come for her to resign but I cannot see it in the immediate aftermath of brexit and she cannot receive a vonc until december
0 -
Why on earth is Tom Watson's price moving in for the labour leadership ?0
-
She can face a VoNC in the House; just not in the Tory Party.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not at all sure TM will go if she gets the deal through
She has a domestic agenda she wants to develop and she has said that post the WA, the HOC will have a much bigger role in the negotiations. I could imagine her creating a new committee, headed by a brexiteer, possibly Cox, as she delegates all responsibility to that committee allowing her to concentrate on her priorities.
A time will come for her to resign but I cannot see it in the immediate aftermath of brexit and she cannot receive a vonc until december0 -
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:0 -
I would assume that those markets operate on the basis of next *permanent* leader. However, there is also the matter of Watson already being, of course, the deputy (i.e. very senior, and already a proven mass ballot winner himself); and also his moves to promote himself at the head of the estranged centre-left wing of the party.ydoethur said:
If Corbyn resigns, he is the next leader of the party, in technical terms. Not sure if that counts.Pulpstar said:Why on earth is Tom Watson's price moving in for the labour leadership ?
0 -
Don't know, ask Big_G. I didn't see the interview on Sky.Foxy said:
This interview?Philip_Thompson said:
This is based on earlier in the thread Big_G saying that Barnier on Sky has confirmed movement on the backstop to accomodate our concerns. I've not seen that personally so not sure what that's about.Foxy said:
Are their convictions that shallow and petty?MarqueeMark said:
By trading their voting for her Deal for her early departure.Nigelb said:
By what mechanism ?MarqueeMark said:
But he won't. He - and many other MPs - will say the deal was shite, due to her inability to negotiate. Which is why she'll have to leave the stage pronto, before we go to the next level of the trade arrangements....Stark_Dawning said:
It would certainly be a joy to see Rees-Mogg, who only a few weeks ago was actively trying to destroy Theresa's leadership, grovel and tell the world that she's a great stateswoman and how wonderful her deal with the EU is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We will see - everything is very fluid at presentStark_Dawning said:
Problem is that Labour and the ERG/DUP would have to swallow an enormous amount of humble pie: the former in conceding that Theresa's played a blinder; the latter in conceding that the EU were accommodating and helpful. I can't see any of the aforementioned ever doing that.Big_G_NorthWales said:Catching up this morning there seems to be lots of ideas on the way forward, some plausible others not so
However, Sky reporting just now that Barnier has confirmed movement in their position to accommodate UK issues on the backstop and that really is the key
Interesting to see if this is a turning point
The deal has issues but the backstop is the deal-breaker. If the backstop is dealt with the rest can be swallowed as a reasonable compromise, especially if we get a new PM to negotiate the trade deal which is the really important issue.
https://twitter.com/StefanieBolzen/status/1101761383832666112?s=19
We're all waiting to see if there's movement. If there is movement a deal can be made, that is the art of compromise.0 -
She says all sorts of things, her word is not worth very much I'm afraid. Cameron said he'd stay after a Leave vote too don't forget.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not at all sure TM will go if she gets the deal through
She has a domestic agenda she wants to develop and she has said that post the WA, the HOC will have a much bigger role in the negotiations. I could imagine her creating a new committee, headed by a brexiteer, possibly Cox, as she delegates all responsibility to that committee allowing her to concentrate on her priorities.
A time will come for her to resign but I cannot see it in the immediate aftermath of brexit and she cannot receive a vonc until december
She has form here. She agreed to stand down before the next election as the price to ensure she won the Confidence Vote.
If the whips tell her she can win her deal but she'll need to commit to stand down this year, I think she'll do it. I doubt she'd seek to lose the MV and get an extension just to ensure she stays on a little bit longer.0 -
Because he is acting like a leader in waiting. If Corbyn goes Watson is first in line to stand to represent the centre-left wing of the party.Pulpstar said:Why on earth is Tom Watson's price moving in for the labour leadership ?
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But why would the membership vote for him when they could vote for a Zio baiter?Philip_Thompson said:
Because he is acting like a leader in waiting. If Corbyn goes Watson is first in line to stand to represent the centre-left wing of the party.Pulpstar said:Why on earth is Tom Watson's price moving in for the labour leadership ?
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She is not going to open the door to JohnsonPhilip_Thompson said:
She says all sorts of things, her word is not worth very much I'm afraid. Cameron said he'd stay after a Leave vote too don't forget.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am not at all sure TM will go if she gets the deal through
She has a domestic agenda she wants to develop and she has said that post the WA, the HOC will have a much bigger role in the negotiations. I could imagine her creating a new committee, headed by a brexiteer, possibly Cox, as she delegates all responsibility to that committee allowing her to concentrate on her priorities.
A time will come for her to resign but I cannot see it in the immediate aftermath of brexit and she cannot receive a vonc until december
She has form here. She agreed to stand down before the next election as the price to ensure she won the Confidence Vote.
If the whips tell her she can win her deal but she'll need to commit to stand down this year, I think she'll do it. I doubt she'd seek to lose the MV and get an extension just to ensure she stays on a little bit longer.0 -
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.0 -
Chris Williamson is currently ineligible.rottenborough said:
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.
And even if he were not suspended, the fact he would make Julius Streicher look vaguely sane probably disqualifies him for good.0 -
Pidcock is always mentioned on here as the anointed successor. However, she would be utter electoral poison so it’s not happening.rottenborough said:
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.
Thornberry is surely a shoo-in when she wants it.0 -
Popular with members, or at least the Momentum part.ydoethur said:
Chris Williamson is currently ineligible.rottenborough said:
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.
And even if he were not suspended, the fact he would make Julius Streicher look vaguely sane probably disqualifies him for good.0 -
Keep an eye on Raynor.Gardenwalker said:
Pidcock is always mentioned on here as the anointed successor. However, she would be utter electoral poison so it’s not happening.rottenborough said:
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.
Thornberry is surely a shoo-in when she wants it.0 -
Re the changing state of education provision.
You’re referring there to what (at least non-vocational) degrees used to be - an exercise in thinking and knowing what questions to ask. My impression is that many degrees are now “taught” to a far greater extent than they were and they are increasingly an extension of A Levels (that is that there’s an expectation that somebody will give you the framework). I’ve only slightly used my degrees in the subject they were in but what they did do was make me learn how to swiftly assimilate, search and analyse information. Then present in a coherent way in my own voice.
It has perhaps changed but most arts/social science lectures were useless. I certainly didn’t go to one.0 -
Have the DUP actually been made aware of the consequences of the fantasy plans for a US trade deal from their fellow ultra Brexiteers in ERG?
https://twitter.com/Ramseconomics/status/11014799220386488320 -
What’s your reasoning for the final assertion? In any event, you want to play the Nazi theme, he’s far more of a low rent Goebbels.ydoethur said:
Chris Williamson is currently ineligible.rottenborough said:
BF is permanent leader market.ydoethur said:
Tell that to Sir Menzies Campbell. Or George Brown. Or Rab Butler.Foxy said:
Watson price coming in because he will probably stand now and so there's the well you never know factor. Long-Bailey not ready yet. May be a three way race with Emily Thornberry and Williamson.
And even if he were not suspended, the fact he would make Julius Streicher look vaguely sane probably disqualifies him for good.0
This discussion has been closed.