politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there are UK Euro elections in May Farage’s new Brexit part

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MJowen174/status/1101429247762141184

Delayed due to Leavers on the Line...

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.

Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/185157-tiger-812-tiki/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16115490-das-reich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

Thanks for links , I have bought the book.

I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.

Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........

A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

kle4 said:

Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?

My response - is he able to think at all !!!!

williamglenn said:

To a lot of people, the 80s was a period of increasing national self-confidence and swagger.

That is not how I remember the 80s at all.

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.

kle4 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

They have split. Whether more can be pushed over their personal limit remains to be seen, but having weathered the temptations of the Tiggers for a week and having achieved the dream of campaigning for Remain again that many regard as their biggest priority, how many more are feeling more comfortable in sticking it out and fighting for the party rather than giving up?

The intensity today of Lucianna on Sky and the toxic nature of Corbyn and his cabal must see more leave. It does not stop them acting as MPs and voting as they wish

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ExiledInScotland said:

FF43 said:

williamglenn said:

"Being in the EU isn't that bad"

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1101433384117698561

The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.

Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?

We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.

Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.

That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.

Selling your nation for a bit of money?

Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

That was Abbott

Big_G_NorthWales said:

kle4 said:

Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?

My response - is he able to think at all !!!!

Corbyn only thinks in platitudes and the clichés of the Sixth Form College left wing bore. Other than IDS, it is difficult to recall a LoTO who comes close to him in terms of low intellect.

notme2 said:

stodge said:

Afternoon all

It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.

We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.

Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.

That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.

I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.

Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/185157-tiger-812-tiki/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16115490-das-reich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

Thanks for links , I have bought the book.

I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.

Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........

A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?

That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism

I'd read it somewhere and checked with Wikipedia, where it's quoted. I've not read Das Reich, but if it suggests the 'marching of people down the streets etc', it doesn't square with the reports of Oradour.
That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.

FrancisUrquhart said:

notme2 said:

stodge said:

Afternoon all

It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.

We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.

Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.

That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.

please sir, Osborne on the train, with the reporters all waiting at Euston, that one.

MTimT said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.

Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/185157-tiger-812-tiki/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16115490-das-reich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

Thanks for links , I have bought the book.

I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.

Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........

A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?

That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism

Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.

Alsace-Lorraine has always been somewhere switched between whichever side won last!

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.

Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.

http://forum-console.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/185157-tiger-812-tiki/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16115490-das-reich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

Thanks for links , I have bought the book.

I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.

Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........

A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?

That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism

I'd read it somewhere and checked with Wikipedia, where it's quoted. I've not read Das Reich, but if it suggests the 'marching of people down the streets etc', it doesn't square with the reports of Oradour.
That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.

Sorry - I should have been clearer - I think I read that in the book but there were other incidents and that might not have been in Oradour

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ExiledInScotland said:

FF43 said:

williamglenn said:

"Being in the EU isn't that bad"

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1101433384117698561

The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.

Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?

We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.

Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.

That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.

Selling your nation for a bit of money?

Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.

Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.

Philip_Thompson said:

Dadge said:

Even though Chris Grayling is 5x as stupid as Diane Abbott, he doesn't receive the same level of stick from the public. Three possible reasons for this are 1. most people wouldn't recognise him if they met him, 2. press go much harder on lefties, and 3. he's a bloke. Any others?

I don't think as dreadful as Grayling is that he is worse, let alone 5x worse, than Abbott. The difference is that Grayling is in power so has more chance to f**k things up. Abbott is powerless and just has her easily quoted words to mess up with.

Yet Grayling has a shedload of presumably experienced officials advising him, yet still staggers from one disaster to another. Whereas Abbott is pretty much on her own.

TheJezziah said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.

I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.

The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.

How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheJezziah said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.

I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.

The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.

How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc

It may be easier to recall the number that did vote for the smug little thicko

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

It will be the first time I have canvassed in a Euro election, and the first time I have not canvassed for the Tories. Cant wait!

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1101529676017795077

Reminds me of when I used to hear Glaswegian taxi drivers say, "I don't hate the English but...."

OldKingCole said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

It will be the first time I have canvassed in a Euro election, and the first time I have not canvassed for the Tories. Cant wait!

Third for me, although last time was leafletting in the local market place.

I may have to leaflet after dark!

Ishmael_Z said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ExiledInScotland said:

FF43 said:

williamglenn said:

"Being in the EU isn't that bad"

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1101433384117698561

The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.

Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?

We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.

Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.

That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.

Selling your nation for a bit of money?

Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.

Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.

..and nasty little jingoistic English nationalist pipsqueeks like Philip_Thompson

MODERATORS

Can we hope for a time when you decide the site is better of without this poster's content-free venom? He has never said anything remotely interesting or entertaining or insightful or counter intuitive (see his posts on this thread). If I come here and find he is posting I go away again. I doubt it's just me that does that.

Please do go away. Before you do, take the beam from your own eye. That particular individual who you are happily defending basically made a comment so offensive that anyone with Irish ancestry would regard as outrageous, if not racist.

FrancisUrquhart said:

notme2 said:

stodge said:

Afternoon all

It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.

We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.

Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.

That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.

Indeed, I'd rate it as slightly above average, having munched one earlier.

I doubt I am the only one who longs for the days when politicians eating burgers or bacon sarnies was all we had to worry about.

Buttigieg would end the Electoral College:

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/02/28/pete-buttigieg-comes-to-claremont-to-campaign-for-president-and-talk-about-big-ideas/

OldKingCole said:

Sensible post.

☺

I will try to bounce back from that asap.

williamglenn said:

You see it in armchair Brexit negotiators here who think you just need to take the money off the table and wait for them to come to you.

Indeed you do. It's seductive. It sounds right.

But sadly it is bollox.

OldKingCole said:

MTimT said:

Floater said:

OldKingCole said:

Floater said:

malcolmg said:

viewcode said:

malcolmg said:

FPT for Floater


Floater said:

» show previous quotes
Nice Avatar pic Malc - is it new or have I not being paying attention?

Been there a while now. I got my grandson one of these painted in the TIKI colours etc, very nice. Also got him this one recently.
https://www.rctank.de/New-Panther-F-metal-edition-with-Taigen-BB-shoot-unit-metal-lower-hull-and-turret-steel-41-gearboxes

(snip)

Thanks for links , I have bought the book.

I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.

Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........

A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?

That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism

Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.

Alsace-Lorraine has always been somewhere switched between whichever side won last!

All sorts of people have found themselves fighting for the Germans. I have a book somewhere that mentions that US forces were surprised to capture some Korean prisoners in Normandy - they'd had an interesting history of being captured by the Russians when fighting for the Germans, then captured by the Germans when fighting for the Russians and finally surprising US soldiers. Given that history they may not have been fighting to the last. (I may have somewhat misremembered here, but that's the gist)

Can anyone tell me whether Ishmael_Z is simply a contrarian? He says he voted remain, but seems very keen to come to the defence of the most virulent Brexit supporters, even when they have said really offensive things? Weird. maybe he just enjoys trolling?

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

It'll be interesting to see what it does to turnout.

kle4 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?

Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ExiledInScotland said:

FF43 said:

williamglenn said:

"Being in the EU isn't that bad"

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1101433384117698561

The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.

Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?

We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.

Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.

That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.

Selling your nation for a bit of money?

Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.

Not really. Ireland spent a long time post-secession trying to distance itself from the UK sphere of influence, but for various reasons this was and remains difficult. So it took pride in its membership of the EU and its predecessors, considering it a pole of influence to counterbalance the UK. Its interest in the EU isn't solely financial.

Foxy said:

kle4 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?

Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.

It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.

anothernick said:

Foxy said:

kle4 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?

Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.

Foxy said:

kle4 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?

Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.

It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.

I had sort of assumed the lack of party creation right from the start was in part so they could explain why they are not fighting various elections...yet, and so risk a very poor result which kills any momentum they might be after. There are practical reasons not to of course, but many a new party has been created first and attempts (usually failed ones) to create the infrastructure afterwards, and with 7 MPs to start with they could probably have managed.

As it is if they are not standing in Newport West it would be a bit noteworthy for the new kids on the block not to get involved as such, but they are still figuring stuff out.

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Uh... Not sure why two parties to the right and one to the left would combine

kinabalu said:

OldKingCole said:

Sensible post.

☺

I will try to bounce back from that asap.

You do have several you know from time to time !!!!!!!!!

anothernick said:

Foxy said:

kle4 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?

Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.

It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.

I understand the election starts around the 21st April so parties would need to be up and running by then

IanB2 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.

Depends on the threshold per constituency if and where it makes sense.

I'd certainly have stretched to Plaid as well in the Wood era. Not sure now. SNP more problematic.

OT - Sporting brains trust...

Got a weekend break in Oxford booked in a hotel from this evening with the family but also a secret ticket to Spurs v Arsenal for tomorrow requiring me leaving the family car-less if I break away and go.

What is the correct action here - esp as I'm expecting the football week from hell to continue?

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

_Anazina_ said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1101480975048024065

Watson! Walk your people out of this cesspit.

I used to work across the street from there. It was never that busy. There are better places in the West End to enjoy a steak.

I'm assuming Philip Collins the Times writer ?

Possibly. There is some doubt. In fact, you could say it's a Land of Confusion...

I know this is a betting site, but you have to imagine the chances of Watson joining the Tiggers are against all odds?

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1101529676017795077

She won't go far in Corbyn's Labour then.....

IanB2 said:

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

AndyJS said:

"UK must hold EU polls if Brexit delayed beyond May, says Bundestag" (£)

https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663

Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.

Fun, fun, fun!

Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.

In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.

How would they order the people on the lists? Normally the members vote for those on the list. Who would get the top slots - the only ones that matter? Draw lots?

TheJezziah said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheJezziah said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.

Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.

How soon before labour split. It cannot be long

The split was nearly two weeks ago.

The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.

I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.

The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.

How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc

Do you expect all the Tory MPs who voted no confidence much more recently to defect?

That could happen, and it is something the Conservatives should be concerned about. Politics is in such an upheaval that it's perfectly possible for a once-in-a-century tectonic shift to occur. Anyone betting on politics at the moment - at the national level at least - needs balls of steel.

But instead of "Look squirrel!" over the Conservatives, I'd expect a genuine Labour person to be soul-searching over the mire their party has descended into. But you won't do that, because you're not Labour.

You're a Corbynite: a party within a party; a diseased, sick group; a bunch of anti-Semites and excusers of anti-Semitism; a group who denounce Labour MPs and members who have spent decades working for the cause just because they're not fully in tune with the sickness.