Even though Chris Grayling is 5x as stupid as Diane Abbott, he doesn't receive the same level of stick from the public. Three possible reasons for this are 1. most people wouldn't recognise him if they met him, 2. press go much harder on lefties, and 3. he's a bloke. Any others?
Point of order - I am not sure it is possible to be 5 x more stupid than Abbott
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
Even though Chris Grayling is 5x as stupid as Diane Abbott, he doesn't receive the same level of stick from the public. Three possible reasons for this are 1. most people wouldn't recognise him if they met him, 2. press go much harder on lefties, and 3. he's a bloke. Any others?
I think he's better than Abbott at media interviews and that counts for a lot with people in the media.
I also think that right now, and ever since the ferry-company-with-no-ferries thing, he's been getting a LOT more stick than Jezza's ex.
There can't be many Transport Secretaries who have been as well known.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.
We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.
Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.
By coincidence, I had a Byron burger for lunch (it was a bit of a heavy night last night). It was only £8.95.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
They have split. Whether more can be pushed over their personal limit remains to be seen, but having weathered the temptations of the Tiggers for a week and having achieved the dream of campaigning for Remain again that many regard as their biggest priority, how many more are feeling more comfortable in sticking it out and fighting for the party rather than giving up?
It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.
We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.
Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.
I'm sure I've spent only a few quid less than that on a burger from Burger King, which is hardly fine dining*.
£48 for a steak is a bit more outside of my usual but I assume London prices are playing a factor there.
Edit: *Actually I take this back it's delicious just not posh.
Rubbish. A sirloin steak at Hawksmoor Knightsbridge is only £31!
£48 is astronomical even for down here. Also, S&W is slightly naff. As @Floater says, the only possible reason for their dining there is that it is very often empty, even on Thirsty Thursday.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
They have split. Whether more can be pushed over their personal limit remains to be seen, but having weathered the temptations of the Tiggers for a week and having achieved the dream of campaigning for Remain again that many regard as their biggest priority, how many more are feeling more comfortable in sticking it out and fighting for the party rather than giving up?
The intensity today of Lucianna on Sky and the toxic nature of Corbyn and his cabal must see more leave. It does not stop them acting as MPs and voting as they wish
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
My response - is he able to think at all !!!!
Corbyn only thinks in platitudes and the clichés of the Sixth Form College left wing bore. Other than IDS, it is difficult to recall a LoTO who comes close to him in terms of low intellect.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.
We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.
Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.
That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
My response - is he able to think at all !!!!
Corbyn only thinks in platitudes and the clichés of the Sixth Form College left wing bore. Other than IDS, it is difficult to recall a LoTO who comes close to him in terms of low intellect.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
You really are an offensive little toe rag. Go and iron your blackshirt, or shine up your jackboots so you can continue to sell your country down the river to Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
I'd read it somewhere and checked with Wikipedia, where it's quoted. I've not read Das Reich, but if it suggests the 'marching of people down the streets etc', it doesn't square with the reports of Oradour. That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.
It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.
We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.
Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.
That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.
please sir, Osborne on the train, with the reporters all waiting at Euston, that one.
Even though Chris Grayling is 5x as stupid as Diane Abbott, he doesn't receive the same level of stick from the public. Three possible reasons for this are 1. most people wouldn't recognise him if they met him, 2. press go much harder on lefties, and 3. he's a bloke. Any others?
I don't think as dreadful as Grayling is that he is worse, let alone 5x worse, than Abbott. The difference is that Grayling is in power so has more chance to f**k things up. Abbott is powerless and just has her easily quoted words to mess up with.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
Personally I'd probably want to strike back. I suspect Corbyn isn't as up for fighting, a common complaint among his supporters but I can understand it, it is probably more sensible.
My guess is cooperate when Watson is being reasonable or things the leadership is happy enough with and pretty much ignore him when not.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.
Alsace-Lorraine has always been somewhere switched between whichever side won last!
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
My response - is he able to think at all !!!!
Corbyn only thinks in platitudes and the clichés of the Sixth Form College left wing bore. Other than IDS, it is difficult to recall a LoTO who comes close to him in terms of low intellect.
He is in a league of his own way below anyone
Perhaps Comic Relief could do a kind of reverse Child Genius competition where Corbyn and IDS thrash it out to see who is the most stupid. It could be called Adult Dunce.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
I'd read it somewhere and checked with Wikipedia, where it's quoted. I've not read Das Reich, but if it suggests the 'marching of people down the streets etc', it doesn't square with the reports of Oradour. That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.
Sorry - I should have been clearer - I think I read that in the book but there were other incidents and that might not have been in Oradour
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.
Being serious, there are clearly many people in the Labour party (whether it is a tiny minority, minority or majority) who appear to believe Tom Watson is actively seeking to bring down Jeremy Corbyn and anyone who supports him. The question for me is what does Corbyn make of that and what does he do? He cannot very well 'encourage' through inaction more MPs to jump ship, purity is all very well but he's been leader long enough to know he cannot afford to constantly be driving off MPs. So how does he win this fight? The members are probably on his side, but how does he bring that further to bear on Watson? Or does he not think Watson is after him at all?
Personally I'd probably want to strike back. I suspect Corbyn isn't as up for fighting, a common complaint among his supporters but I can understand it, it is probably more sensible.
My guess is cooperate when Watson is being reasonable or things the leadership is happy enough with and pretty much ignore him when not.
Or perhaps Corbyn is just a coward, or stupid, or both. Either way he is likely to come off worse against Watson because whatever Watson is, he is neither of those things.
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
Even though Chris Grayling is 5x as stupid as Diane Abbott, he doesn't receive the same level of stick from the public. Three possible reasons for this are 1. most people wouldn't recognise him if they met him, 2. press go much harder on lefties, and 3. he's a bloke. Any others?
I don't think as dreadful as Grayling is that he is worse, let alone 5x worse, than Abbott. The difference is that Grayling is in power so has more chance to f**k things up. Abbott is powerless and just has her easily quoted words to mess up with.
Yet Grayling has a shedload of presumably experienced officials advising him, yet still staggers from one disaster to another. Whereas Abbott is pretty much on her own.
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.
..and nasty little jingoistic English nationalist pipsqueeks like Philip_Thompson
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
But it does stretch across Labour's voters. Party memberships for both Labour and Tory now represent the mouldy concentrated scum at the bottom of the old unwashed teacup. They are caricatures of the parties they represent, as most of the decent moderates have left them to the thugs and nutters .
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc
It may be easier to recall the number that did vote for the smug little thicko
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
It will be the first time I have canvassed in a Euro election, and the first time I have not canvassed for the Tories. Cant wait!
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
It will be the first time I have canvassed in a Euro election, and the first time I have not canvassed for the Tories. Cant wait!
Third for me, although last time was leafletting in the local market place.
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.
..and nasty little jingoistic English nationalist pipsqueeks like Philip_Thompson
MODERATORS
Can we hope for a time when you decide the site is better of without this poster's content-free venom? He has never said anything remotely interesting or entertaining or insightful or counter intuitive (see his posts on this thread). If I come here and find he is posting I go away again. I doubt it's just me that does that.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
It will be the first time I have canvassed in a Euro election, and the first time I have not canvassed for the Tories. Cant wait!
Third for me, although last time was leafletting in the local market place.
That, indeed, is Trump's biggest failing - not to realize that politics is way more complex than business, so much so that, for the most part, entirely different strategies and tactics are required (for which he is impressively ill-equipped).
And conversely and perversely perhaps his biggest plus in the eyes of his base.
All of those years on The Apprentice being beamed into the living rooms of the ignorami as the very embodiment of the tough but fair alpha male with the common touch who takes no crap and gets results. The drip drip impact of that is not to be underestimated.
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
Ireland's motivation for remaining in the EU is to prevent themselves being screwed by us for another 800 years or so.
..and nasty little jingoistic English nationalist pipsqueeks like Philip_Thompson
MODERATORS
Can we hope for a time when you decide the site is better of without this poster's content-free venom? He has never said anything remotely interesting or entertaining or insightful or counter intuitive (see his posts on this thread). If I come here and find he is posting I go away again. I doubt it's just me that does that.
Please do go away. Before you do, take the beam from your own eye. That particular individual who you are happily defending basically made a comment so offensive that anyone with Irish ancestry would regard as outrageous, if not racist.
That, indeed, is Trump's biggest failing - not to realize that politics is way more complex than business, so much so that, for the most part, entirely different strategies and tactics are required (for which he is impressively ill-equipped).
And conversely and perversely perhaps his biggest plus in the eyes of his base.
All of those years on The Apprentice being beamed into the living rooms of the ignorami as the very embodiment of the tough but fair alpha male with the common touch who takes no crap and gets results. The drip drip impact of that is not to be underestimated.
It's always curious that whenever someone in Labour is seen eating out, the cost of it gets publicised. What do they think Labour people should do - forage from bins? The fixation of the Right with everything relating to costs and status shows the class war is far from dead.
We saw this with the snide comments about the TIG dinner at Nando's as well.
Didn’t George Osborne getting Byron Burgers delivered to no 11 cause a story? With his luxury £11 burger that only a rich public school Tory Toff would spend £11 on a burger narrative.
That had to be one of the most ridiculous outrage stories of the past few years. Byron Burger isn't even that expensive (nor that amazing). Its just yet another of a million burger chains.
Indeed, I'd rate it as slightly above average, having munched one earlier.
That, indeed, is Trump's biggest failing - not to realize that politics is way more complex than business, so much so that, for the most part, entirely different strategies and tactics are required (for which he is impressively ill-equipped).
And conversely and perversely perhaps his biggest plus in the eyes of his base.
All of those years on The Apprentice being beamed into the living rooms of the ignorami as the very embodiment of the tough but fair alpha male with the common touch who takes no crap and gets results. The drip drip impact of that is not to be underestimated.
You see it in armchair Brexit negotiators here who think you just need to take the money off the table and wait for them to come to you.
In the latter half of WWII, the Germans came up with phenomenal tank designs but (for various different reasons) could not make them reliable nor in sufficient numbers. As a result there were not many Tigers, King Tigers, Panthers et al. This means that individual tanks can be identified.
Your tank is Tiger 812 (nicknamed "Tiki") of the 8/SSPzRgt 2, a regiment better known as "Das Reich". This bunch of murderous bastards were immortalised in Max Hastings' book also called "Das Reich", which detailed their attempts to make it from their posting to the Normandy beaches to help repel D-Day. Their route was crucially delayed by Allied bombing, British special forces, and the French Resistance, some of whom died hideous deaths in their efforts to halt the German advance, including the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
I'd read it somewhere and checked with Wikipedia, where it's quoted. I've not read Das Reich, but if it suggests the 'marching of people down the streets etc', it doesn't square with the reports of Oradour. That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.
In Belarus, or Yugoslavia such anti partisan atrocities were fairly routine. Hundreds of Belarussian villages were obliterated that way. Similar incidents in France were remarkeable because they were isolated. The excellent, albeit very gruelling, film "Come and See" covers well this horrible period.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.
Alsace-Lorraine has always been somewhere switched between whichever side won last!
All sorts of people have found themselves fighting for the Germans. I have a book somewhere that mentions that US forces were surprised to capture some Korean prisoners in Normandy - they'd had an interesting history of being captured by the Russians when fighting for the Germans, then captured by the Germans when fighting for the Russians and finally surprising US soldiers. Given that history they may not have been fighting to the last. (I may have somewhat misremembered here, but that's the gist)
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Can anyone tell me whether Ishmael_Z is simply a contrarian? He says he voted remain, but seems very keen to come to the defence of the most virulent Brexit supporters, even when they have said really offensive things? Weird. maybe he just enjoys trolling?
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
It'll be interesting to see what it does to turnout.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
I can see TIGers aligning OK with LDs, but the Greens are seen even by centre right moderates as very left wing
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.
The only way of leaving is by accepting it's worse than Remaining, which is what I think Lilico intended to write. That's why a bunch of the more aware voted Remain. It's better than Leave.
Remain Now may be better than Leave Now. But what about the future?
We have no crystal ball. What we can see is that the EU has many fundamental problems as they try to forge an ever closer union. They may be able to pull together amicably or they may require force (economic or military) to build it. Human history strongly suggests the latter - either to forge it (as per the US Civil War) or prevent its breakup (Yugoslavia). Personally I want no part of that.
Don't forget our own history of forming a union. Which makes it more amusing to me that Nationalists are so pro-EU.
That the one that was done by 12 Tory chancers for money and has led to the people being ripped off for 300 years.
Selling your nation for a bit of money?
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
Not really. Ireland spent a long time post-secession trying to distance itself from the UK sphere of influence, but for various reasons this was and remains difficult. So it took pride in its membership of the EU and its predecessors, considering it a pole of influence to counterbalance the UK. Its interest in the EU isn't solely financial.
I have read the Das Reich book and been to the site - unbelievable really.
Marching people down the street with their nooses and stopping at each lamp post if I recall........
A number of the 'German' troops were in fact from Alsace Lorraine were they not?
That I cannot remember - but still changes nothing as regards the inhumanity and barbarism
Didn't the Germans at the time consider any native-German speakers to be German, regardless of nationality? The Belgian German-speakers were certainly recruited into the military as Germans.
Alsace-Lorraine has always been somewhere switched between whichever side won last!
All sorts of people have found themselves fighting for the Germans. I have a book somewhere that mentions that US forces were surprised to capture some Korean prisoners in Normandy - they'd had an interesting history of being captured by the Russians when fighting for the Germans, then captured by the Germans when fighting for the Russians and finally surprising US soldiers. Given that history they may not have been fighting to the last. (I may have somewhat misremembered here, but that's the gist)
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.
It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
I can see TIGers aligning OK with LDs, but the Greens are seen even by centre right moderates as very left wing
Their (the Greens) problem is that they try to overreach - I'm enormously interested in the Green's policy on the environment, slightly interested in their energy policy, and wouldn't use as loo-paper their economic policy.
It strikes me that we should almost have a third (lower) chamber for single issue politicians. A hundred Greens that are clueless on the Economy will never get the votes for the Commons, but they'd get single issue votes to be noisy and awkward in a different forum, even from me.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.
It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.
I had sort of assumed the lack of party creation right from the start was in part so they could explain why they are not fighting various elections...yet, and so risk a very poor result which kills any momentum they might be after. There are practical reasons not to of course, but many a new party has been created first and attempts (usually failed ones) to create the infrastructure afterwards, and with 7 MPs to start with they could probably have managed.
As it is if they are not standing in Newport West it would be a bit noteworthy for the new kids on the block not to get involved as such, but they are still figuring stuff out.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.
It still matters, in 2014 Labour got 20 MEPs from 4 million votes, while LD got 1 for 1 million, and Green 3 from 1.1 million.
On the other hand the Farage Ego party and UKIP may well split the frothing at the mouth Brexiteer vote.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Uh... Not sure why two parties to the right and one to the left would combine
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Uh... Not sure why two parties to the right and one to the left would combine
To fight on a combined #peoplesvote ticket. This is the Euro-Parliament, not for a Sovereign Westminster government.
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
Why? Are they not distinct entities? Did Tigger spokesman not talk about ideas coming from left and potentially right?
Certainly are, but in a list system of multimember Euroconstituencies, something to be said.
It's hard to see the Tiggers being ready to fight an election by June. They have no party organistiaon, no system for selecting candidates, no members, no electoral databases. They are not even registered as a political party. Chuka may come over well on Newsmight but you can't run a campaign on that basis.
I understand the election starts around the 21st April so parties would need to be up and running by then
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.
Depends on the threshold per constituency if and where it makes sense.
I'd certainly have stretched to Plaid as well in the Wood era. Not sure now. SNP more problematic.
I'd rate it as slightly above average, having munched one earlier.
Quite absurdly salty. Not your comment, the Byron Burger. If people were to make a habit of plotting 'a new politics for a new 21st century paradigm' there they would be unlikely to live to see the dream realized.
Got a weekend break in Oxford booked in a hotel from this evening with the family but also a secret ticket to Spurs v Arsenal for tomorrow requiring me leaving the family car-less if I break away and go.
What is the correct action here - esp as I'm expecting the football week from hell to continue?
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc
Do you expect all the Tory MPs who voted no confidence much more recently to defect?
Poor old Chuka, he never really felt at home in the Labour Party.
"He added that when he briefly stood for the party leadership in 2015, before withdrawing, he was warned that being of BAME background could count against him."
Fairy nuff. Another fine mess we've got ourselves into. Candidates from, Right to Left, UKIP, , Brexit Party, Tory, TIGger, LD (although the last two might, I suppose, be combined) Labour.
Fun, fun, fun!
Greens too. Something to be said for a combined LibDem, Tigger, Green coupon list system.
In an FPTnP election, for sure. Doesn't really work so well in a PR list system for the EU elections.
How would they order the people on the lists? Normally the members vote for those on the list. Who would get the top slots - the only ones that matter? Draw lots?
Got a weekend break in Oxford booked in a hotel from this evening with the family but also a secret ticket to Spurs v Arsenal for tomorrow requiring me leaving the family car-less if I break away and go.
What is the correct action here - esp as I'm expecting the football week from hell to continue?
Why would you take a car to london. Train there and back and the family have the car, or am I missing something
Sheffield Hallam CLP calling Williamson suspension a witchhunt and wanting him re-instated and apparently many more CLP following.
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
The split was nearly two weeks ago.
The start yes but 170 labour mps need to join TIG in one single move.
I think that's setting the bar a bit too high. If enough Labour MPs join TIG so that it becomes the Official Opposition that would be something. That would take another 115 or so MPs, depending on how many further defections there are from the Tories. Also, if the defections take place in stages over a few months I don't think that will be a problem.
The problem is whilst Labour do have a decent number of centrists MPs they are not 50% of the party. Of the original 7 leavers 5 nominated Liz Kendall for the leadership, which is fine there's nothing wrong with Liz but they come from an ideological position in the Labour party which does not stretch across the majority of the party.
How many labour mps voted against Corbyn in the vonc
Do you expect all the Tory MPs who voted no confidence much more recently to defect?
That could happen, and it is something the Conservatives should be concerned about. Politics is in such an upheaval that it's perfectly possible for a once-in-a-century tectonic shift to occur. Anyone betting on politics at the moment - at the national level at least - needs balls of steel.
But instead of "Look squirrel!" over the Conservatives, I'd expect a genuine Labour person to be soul-searching over the mire their party has descended into. But you won't do that, because you're not Labour.
You're a Corbynite: a party within a party; a diseased, sick group; a bunch of anti-Semites and excusers of anti-Semitism; a group who denounce Labour MPs and members who have spent decades working for the cause just because they're not fully in tune with the sickness.
Got a weekend break in Oxford booked in a hotel from this evening with the family but also a secret ticket to Spurs v Arsenal for tomorrow requiring me leaving the family car-less if I break away and go.
What is the correct action here - esp as I'm expecting the football week from hell to continue?
Comments
Lucianna Berger being interviewed on Sky saying a member of the shadow cabinet was present at Hackney CLP that passed demands for Williamson to be re-instated and did not object.
How soon before labour split. It cannot be long
https://richardosley.com/2019/03/01/left-wingers-enjoy-near-clean-sweep-in-hampstead-and-kilburn/
£48 is astronomical even for down here. Also, S&W is slightly naff. As @Floater says, the only possible reason for their dining there is that it is very often empty, even on Thirsty Thursday.
Good place to plot...
Seems like Ireland's motivation to be in the EU.
That's not to be read as whitewashing Oradour which was incredibly hideous and brutal.
My guess is cooperate when Watson is being reasonable or things the leadership is happy enough with and pretty much ignore him when not.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-labour-members-in-tears-diane-abbott-s-local-party-passes-motion-questioning-instituti-1.480825
https://www.ft.com/content/8642139e-3c04-11e9-b856-5404d3811663
Fun, fun, fun!
Can we hope for a time when you decide the site is better of without this poster's content-free venom? He has never said anything remotely interesting or entertaining or insightful or counter intuitive (see his posts on this thread). If I come here and find he is posting I go away again. I doubt it's just me that does that.
All of those years on The Apprentice being beamed into the living rooms of the ignorami as the very embodiment of the tough but fair alpha male with the common touch who takes no crap and gets results. The drip drip impact of that is not to be underestimated.
Thank god our version only has Lord Sugar.
https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/02/28/pete-buttigieg-comes-to-claremont-to-campaign-for-president-and-talk-about-big-ideas/
I will try to bounce back from that asap.
https://youtu.be/fqKDg5pPzsg
But sadly it is bollox.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6760195/Joe-Biden-presidential-campaign-ready-doubts-right-man-moment.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong
It strikes me that we should almost have a third (lower) chamber for single issue politicians. A hundred Greens that are clueless on the Economy will never get the votes for the Commons, but they'd get single issue votes to be noisy and awkward in a different forum, even from me.
As it is if they are not standing in Newport West it would be a bit noteworthy for the new kids on the block not to get involved as such, but they are still figuring stuff out.
On the other hand the Farage Ego party and UKIP may well split the frothing at the mouth Brexiteer vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
I'd certainly have stretched to Plaid as well in the Wood era. Not sure now. SNP more problematic.
Got a weekend break in Oxford booked in a hotel from this evening with the family but also a secret ticket to Spurs v Arsenal for tomorrow requiring me leaving the family car-less if I break away and go.
What is the correct action here - esp as I'm expecting the football week from hell to continue?
"He added that when he briefly stood for the party leadership in 2015, before withdrawing, he was warned that being of BAME background could count against him."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/01/chuka-umunna-i-never-felt-totally-comfortable-in-the-labour-party
But instead of "Look squirrel!" over the Conservatives, I'd expect a genuine Labour person to be soul-searching over the mire their party has descended into. But you won't do that, because you're not Labour.
You're a Corbynite: a party within a party; a diseased, sick group; a bunch of anti-Semites and excusers of anti-Semitism; a group who denounce Labour MPs and members who have spent decades working for the cause just because they're not fully in tune with the sickness.