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I have certainly felt sympathy for her. She is, in a very literal, and literary, sense a tragic figure. Her great strength, her determination, has become her fatal flaw, stubbornness and a refusal to compromise.Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
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Both sides are responsible. How many remainers authorised A50 with default no deal and now want to stop brexitIanB2 said:
You can't blame the remainers when if they win all these sort of problems will go awayBig_G_NorthWales said:
We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved onThe_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the aceStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavymportant to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy
Of course my position is TM deal or similar or remain0 -
I imagine you have to add sales tax in a great many states.Pulpstar said:I heard on the radio that Teslas are $45k or so and Musk wants to get this down to $35K.
Apparently they'll be here in 2 years time and be £50k !!
I'm using ~1.264 USD to GBP for year end conversions but it seemingly works the other way round with cars.
Are we ripped off or is there some whopping tariff on US cars ?0 -
Not strictly true either, in the 1999 European elections UKIP got 5.6% and still got 3 MEPs.No_Offence_Alan said:
Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
So party A1 and A2 would still get candidates elected even on just 6% each0 -
"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
The vote was split in 2014 - it cost Ukip two seats.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think I might do a thread on the D'Hondt method this Sunday to show how two Pro-Brexit could split the vote to the detriment of their cause.No_Offence_Alan said:
Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=210 -
Snowing here too.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't Northern Softies complain about the lack of first class on a relatively short train ride from Manchester to Sheffield?TheScreamingEagles said:We have snow in Sheffield.
Only light snow, the sort of snow that sees Southern softies declare a state of emergency.
But Northerners aren't usually found in Manchester or Sheffield. They are at least 100 miles further North.0 -
I was a participant in that poll and I recorded the view that I have no sympathy for her.Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
She is being paid to execute a job that has significant responsibility and kudos. Literally hundreds of other people could as competently make the decisions she has made. She is a victim of her own inability to communicate at a level usually associated with the job. Her management skills might be worthy of the office she leads but overall, her judgement and her communication to the country have been found wanting.
The only thing that keeps her in office is the alternative or rather the fear of something even worse. That said, in the same poll it asked who would be the best PM: May or Corbyn - I chose May!0 -
If Leave means Leave is going to have a party to make traction from say a Remain v Deal EUref2 then Farage is still the best to lead itAlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=210 -
Curious. What’s the reason for disliking Paul Boateng?Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.0 -
There are going to be plenty of hard Leave parties around. There may be as many as six Leave parties standing in Peterborough if there’s a by-election there.0
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Yep. Not actually fatal yet, but certainly very likely so. However Brexit goes I see a change of leadership after matters have settled down, and a relatively early GE. (Have layed the 2022 GE which is a nice bet in that losing will almost certainly mean I'm happy otherwise)dixiedean said:
I have certainly felt sympathy for her. She is, in a very literal, and literary, sense a tragic figure. Her great strength, her determination, has become her fatal flaw, stubbornness and a refusal to compromise.Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.0 -
kinabalu said:
New experience for me watching Boris Johnson today. Genuine embarrassment for the guy.
Nothing has gone right for him since the Brexit result. He could have quite passionately argued for either cause. He did a calculation that glorious defeat in a Brexit referendum sets him to be the next PM. Hmm. Didn’t quite go well.0 -
Not really. Take out no deal, hand everything to remainers and the EUStereotomy said:
If you think May's response to "Take No Deal off the table" should be a screeching U-Turn on whether her deal is the best possible deal, then fine. She can go and join the ERGers. But if she does do that, that still represents Corbyn having boxed her in to a very awkward position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
For one thing, completely contradicting her previous position is embarassing. For another, it'll alienate her from her previous allies, the people who agree with her argument that her deal is the only deal around (apart from those- and I'm afraid you appear to be falling into this category- who are happy to perform whatever cognitive handbrake turns are required to track her current position). For a third, and perhaps most important, it means that in the likely event that the backstop doesn't get taken out of the WA, she'll have undermined her own main argument for the deal when it comes back up to vote again.
I think causing her that much trouble represents smart politics from the opposition, doesn't it?
And by the way, I am 100% opposed to no deal0 -
Hard not to agree.The_Taxman said:
I was a participant in that poll and I recorded the view that I have no sympathy for her.Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
She is being paid to execute a job that has significant responsibility and kudos. Literally hundreds of other people could as competently make the decisions she has made. She is a victim of her own inability to communicate at a level usually associated with the job. Her management skills might be worthy of the office she leads but overall, her judgement and her communication to the country have been found wanting.
The only thing that keeps her in office is the alternative or rather the fear of something even worse. That said, in the same poll it asked who would be the best PM: May or Corbyn - I chose May!0 -
Which side would he be on in Remain v Deal?HYUFD said:
If Leave means Leave is going to have a party to make traction from say a Remain v Deal EUref2 then Farage is still the best to lead itAlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=210 -
That is possibleHYUFD said:
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.williamglenn said:
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our casewilliamglenn said:
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal0 -
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.The_Taxman said:
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?ralphmalph said:
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
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I can't prove the reasons therefore I probably shouldn't respond. He had some strong and very wrong views when he was young connected with policing.notme2 said:
Curious. What’s the reason for disliking Paul Boateng?Omnium said:Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.
I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).
Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.
@AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
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I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!ralphmalph said:
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.The_Taxman said:
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?ralphmalph said:
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...0 -
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
Neither, he would be crying 'betrayal' whichever wondixiedean said:
Which side would he be on in Remain v Deal?HYUFD said:
If Leave means Leave is going to have a party to make traction from say a Remain v Deal EUref2 then Farage is still the best to lead itAlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=210 -
Jobs were being regularly exported to coal burning EU economies whilst we were fully in the EU.The_Taxman said:
I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!ralphmalph said:
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.The_Taxman said:
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?ralphmalph said:
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
In this ongoing negotiation it will be absolutely bonkers to take no deal off the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
We need to keep pointing a massive bazooka at our own head until the EU sees sense.0 -
I think it is the likely outcome once all other alternatives have been eliminated.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is possibleHYUFD said:
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.williamglenn said:
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our casewilliamglenn said:
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
Plus about 500 to 550 MPs back either Remain or the Deal and barely more than 100 at most back No Deal even though almost a third of the voters back No Deal as their first preference0 -
No.Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.0 -
Why why why? How does it help?! A pox on all these bastards.AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
0
-
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...0 -
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
It helps if a bunch of Labour MPs in Leave seats are going "Gulp!!!!" at the idea. Maybe they'll put out some feelers on what it takes to get a Brexit outcome.....?kle4 said:
Why why why? How does it help?! A pox on all these bastards.AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general
Who knows.....0 -
Yeah I quite liked Blair, but disagreed with him almost entirely. Like him less in his more recent thoughts. Didn't like Brown at all - I oddly think he was less humble than Blair and all faux dignity.Mortimer said:
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, which has has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.
0 -
So much for the Tories winning it then.AlastairMeeks said:There are going to be plenty of hard Leave parties around. There may be as many as six Leave parties standing in Peterborough if there’s a by-election there.
0 -
This may in a sense be good for Corbyn in the political game, but at this stage the voting public might be starting to wonder whether he is interested in what is good for the country.Stereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
0 -
I feel there's some weight behind those two lettersAlastairMeeks said:
No.Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
(Thanks for replying though - sort of interesting how we mostly hate our political opponents, but sometimes we don't - we just disagree.)0 -
Have you ever read any of the accounts of Browns time as PM and the abuse he dissed out to the employees of Downing Street? Humble and dignified I would not call him, undignified, paranoid nasty piece of work, I would.Mortimer said:
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.0 -
That's a rather pointless pissing contest. I imagine Sheffield would be at a standstill with the 15" of snow we've had in the past 2 days, and the Canadians would laugh at our inability to deal with snow.TheScreamingEagles said:We have snow in Sheffield.
Only light snow, the sort of snow that sees Southern softies declare a state of emergency.0 -
Currently, there is net growth in jobs, with rising real wages.The_Taxman said:
I have noticed with advocates of Brexit, the cheque is always in the post about the future. The only thing the UK will be exporting in the future is jobs by the look of it!ralphmalph said:
One of the main issues manufacturing has here and in the other developed EU nations is costs, regulatory, energy, etc. We can not change that whilst in the EU. When we leave at least we have the option to, whether our politicians will seize the day is another subject altogether.The_Taxman said:
Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?ralphmalph said:
The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
FPT
@Benpointer I wish to clarify that I do, occasionally, a MaccyD although I prefer both Burger King and Five Guys. I also eat at Fullers pubs in preference to Wetherspoons.
@FrancisUrquhart boxed wine is great when you only have the occasional glass. I only bring out the good stuff when I the company of people who will appreciate it
I am, after all, a man of the people0 -
Mogg as the modern day Benn, history in a mirror?tlg86 said:
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.RobD said:
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise0 -
Yes, I think that's a good parallel.dots said:
Mogg as the modern day Benn, history in a mirror?tlg86 said:
I heard Tony Benn speak at the Oxford Union and really enjoyed it. He was thoroughly charming and very engaging.Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.0 -
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?0 -
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?0 -
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
What no thread on the quality of the boxed wine in weatherspoons?0
-
Hated is no use unless it’s hated AND feared. Hated and pitied is not a good combinationAlastairMeeks said:Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
0 -
Totally agree with Five guys (in the us).Charles said:FPT
@Benpointer I wish to clarify that I do, occasionally, a MaccyD although I prefer both Burger King and Five Guys. I also eat at Fullers pubs in preference to Wetherspoons.
@FrancisUrquhart boxed wine is great when you only have the occasional glass. I only bring out the good stuff when I the company of people who will appreciate it
I am, after all, a man of the people
No offense I just can’t see you sitting down on a chilly Friday night and cracking open the 3l box of vinegar tasting white wine.0 -
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.HYUFD said:
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?0 -
German Green MEP on Sky at the moment love bombing us Brits. Must be getting serious now.0
-
It is the most damaging of the scenario for the EU of those on table, yet it is also the most damaging for ourselves.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.RobD said:
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
The truth is it’s on the table pointing at both sides.
Those who come off worse if it goes off we can agree is us? It’s genuinely debatable but most fact checkers point to that?
But what we are agreeing is, it’s not who will come off worse when it goes off who wants it off the table but those left in weaker position once it’s off the table who most want it to stay there. Is that the honest truth with it?
0 -
This one?ralphmalph said:German Green MEP on Sky at the moment love bombing us Brits. Must be getting serious now.
https://twitter.com/TerryReintke/status/10757948298781982740 -
That's very nice. Doesn't change the dynamic between us and the EU though.ralphmalph said:German Green MEP on Sky at the moment love bombing us Brits. Must be getting serious now.
0 -
Is it better to be feared or loved?Charles said:
Hated is no use unless it’s hated AND feared. Hated and pitied is not a good combinationAlastairMeeks said:Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
0 -
Bercow wants to go down in history as the Speaker who assured the supremacy of the legislature over the executive and he may well achieve itOmnium said:
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.HYUFD said:
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?0 -
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
For me, yesdots said:
It is the most damaging of the scenario for the EU of those on table, yet it is also the most damaging for ourselves.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.RobD said:
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise
The truth is it’s on the table pointing at both sides.
Those who come off worse if it goes off we can agree is us? It’s genuinely debatable but most fact checkers point to that?
But what we are agreeing is, it’s not who will come off worse when it goes off who wants it off the table but those left in weaker position once it’s off the table who most want it to stay there. Is that the honest truth with it?0 -
His handling of the treaty of Lisbon is as much to blame for Brexit as David Cameron is.ralphmalph said:
Have you ever read any of the accounts of Browns time as PM and the abuse he dissed out to the employees of Downing Street? Humble and dignified I would not call him, undignified, paranoid nasty piece of work, I would.Mortimer said:
I felt the same for Blair. One of the most negative impacts to have ever stood on our political stage, an impact that has poisoned politics since his fall. But boy could he speak...Omnium said:
Sure, you won't agree with him, but do you have any liking for the man? I rather liked Tony Benn - I disagreed with almost every word he ever spoke, but did enjoy listening to his thoughts. I felt he was an enormous danger to our country.AlastairMeeks said:
He’s the individual who singly has done most to set Britain on a long term course of cultural and economic decline. The question of any honour is presumably being held over until the findings of the Mueller inquiry in relation to him are known.Omnium said:
Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.HYUFD said:
The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PRAlastairMeeks said:Oh when thieves fall out:
https://twitter.com/ukip/status/1086194874347671558?s=21
I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.
Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
I shed a tear when Brown left office. He was far more humble, and more dignified.0 -
Totally O/T...YouTube keep pushing us tv late night “comedy” segments at me. They are as unfunny as Trump is calm and collected.0
-
I presume the tyres story is this one from a few miles away from me - it was first in the newsback in OctoberBenpointer said:
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those wht out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46917382
But they're taking jobs to Serbia I thought.0 -
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes."TheScreamingEagles said:I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
- P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either.""
- David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates.""
- Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?0 -
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.williamglenn said:
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.0 -
If we're helped off the ledge, we cannot do it again. Once the deal's done it's done.FF43 said:
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.williamglenn said:
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.0 -
2/3 of the House voting to dissolve, thus avoiding the 14 days?viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
You don't need the 14 days if Parliament votes for an election, instead of a no confidence vote, like they did in 2017. Since Labour surely would back such a motion if Theresa May announced one it would sail through and no 14 days needed.viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
Has the ring of truth and common sense about it.HYUFD said:
I think it is the likely outcome once all other alternatives have been eliminated.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is possibleHYUFD said:
We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.williamglenn said:
We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our casewilliamglenn said:
If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
Plus about 500 to 550 MPs back either Remain or the Deal and barely more than 100 at most back No Deal even though almost a third of the voters back No Deal as their first preference0 -
My, she is tenacious, isn't she?MarqueeMark said: 0 -
Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-to-send-all-16-year-olds-on-a-month-s-national-service-7rw5g3fx80 -
Suppose it makes a change from angle grinding cash machines open.....TheScreamingEagles said:Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-to-send-all-16-year-olds-on-a-month-s-national-service-7rw5g3fx80 -
I think you're right and the New Statesman is wrong.viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
https://news.sky.com/story/historic-tyre-maker-to-axe-300-jobs-as-production-moves-overseas-11522931Benpointer said:
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
Such fondly remembered days, the sun shining, the PM gayly dressing like the bay city rollers as we all looked forward to having our cake and eating it. All those new trade deals to look forward to 29th March 2019. Power stations were being built. A new welfare reform was about to deliver for the better. We probably weren’t even aware of all the people in dentention centres for the crime of being unable to prove they stepped off a boat aged three and were waved through customs?williamglenn said:
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law.Omnium said:
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.HYUFD said:
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it.
*Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.0 -
what do you think has been going on for the last 20 years. Manufacturing in the UK has been butchered and Brexit is simply the result,The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare displd you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
HP Sauce, Cadburys. Bendinck mints, Twinings, PSA Ryton, Ford Southampton, Ford Dagenham just off the top of my head - all closed and work transferred to Europe.
Out in the provinces UK workers have been serially shafted and nobody gave a toss. Now that theyve got uppity suddenly everyones concerned, Crocodile tears.
The time to worry about closures was 2000 and after and nobody did.
0 -
"Sail thru" is not zero time. To hit Feb 28th she'd have to dissolve parliament next Thursday at the latest. Is that even possible?Quincel said:
You don't need the 14 days if Parliament votes for an election, like they did in 2017. Since Labour surely would back such a motion if Theresa May announced one it would sail through and no 14 days needed.viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/17368721.unions-blame-300-cooper-tire-job-losses-on-cheap-imports/Benpointer said:
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that0 -
Good point, but see my post above about next Thursday.kle4 said:
2/3 of the House voting to dissolve, thus avoiding the 14 days?viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0 -
You mean when St Tone was in charge??Alanbrooke said:
what do you think has been going on for the last 20 years. Manufacturing in the UK has been butchered and Brexit is simply the result,The_Taxman said:
29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.Stereotomy said:
Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flagStereotomy said:
On the contrary, I think this is a rare displd you do?"Big_G_NorthWales said:
Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threatBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808
Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.
Yeah.
He is not good at politics
I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.
Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
HP Sauce, Cadburys. Bendinck mints, Twinings, PSA Ryton, Ford Southampton, Ford Dagenham just off the top of my head - all closed and work transferred to Europe.
Out in the provinces UK workers have been serially shafted and nobody gave a toss. Now that theyve got uppity suddenly everyones concerned, Crocodile tears.
The time to worry about closures was 2000 and after and nobody did.0 -
And me: "House of Unelected Has-Beens".dixiedean said:
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law.Omnium said:
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.HYUFD said:
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it.
*Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.0 -
Self harm isn't a card. Surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.RobD said:
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise0 -
As someone unkindly but accurately pointed out, Labour's vision for Scotland is what they're doing in Wales.Big_G_NorthWales said:About that labour recovery in Scotland Justin keeps claiming
Just had a tweet from the Daily Post (North Wales news) that the Scottish labour party have been called out for releasing a promotional video featuring scenes filmed in ..........Wales
The video for social media shows Richard Leonard discussing labour's vision for Scotland
It says 'our Country is run by an elite few. It belongs to all of us. Watch and share the three minute 'Vision for Scotland' promotion featuring clips of Scottish scenery, families and businesses'
At 1.25 mins in the camera pans out to a striking shot of a mountain range ........ Tryfan in the Snowdonia National Park
Scotland has magnificient mountains and scenery - maybe next time film in Scotland0 -
Still think No Deal *is* more dangerous to us than the EU27.. just on a numbers/size game. (Basically, a lot more consumers to soak up any displaced trade within the 27 then there are for us). I'm willing to accept most on both sides are reasonably keen to avoid it, but I'm guessing some of their red lines may end up redder than ours.
At a more basic level than the dealing and brinkmanship, the truth of 'taking it off the table', oft-stated on these pages, is that *she can't*. Or rather she can only do so by a majority of the HoC voting positively in favour of something else. Which is where Corbyn's stance falls down for me, as he has influence over a reasonable chunk of them.
On the question of platforms in any snap election.. my guess is both front benches will sit pretty much where they are, Lab petrified of a WWC backlash, Tories holding the line between crash and remain, both scared of being branded hypocritical. Essentially a Deal v Deal+Unicorns referendum, plus a question of whose whips you trust most to get their lot through the lobby (albeit a week after being elected on that platform).
But it'll be a lottery, with unknown numbers of voters peeling off. I can see the LibDems picking some up (more time elapsed since student loans; vote of last resort for centrist remainers who see the clock ticking and think the others will screw it up). But they'll be limited by their current scale and invisibility. I think UKIP are dead.. but I can see several dozen committed Faragists - including him, Suzanne Evans and one or two other recognisable ones - taking the fight to key constituencies to make a point. They may pick up one or two, but disrupt the balance in many more.0 -
Who surrendered at Yorktown?TheScreamingEagles said:Does it really take a month to teach 16 year olds how to surrender?
France to send all 16-year-olds on a month’s national service. All French 16-year-olds will wear a uniform and salute the flag under a national service scheme that will start trials in June, the government said yesterday.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-to-send-all-16-year-olds-on-a-month-s-national-service-7rw5g3fx8
0 -
It's possible - if she decides that No Deal would be really bad, she can revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. It would be suicidal in the Tory party, but she might accept an instruction from Parliament (with the implication of a VONC if she refuses).dots said:
On the topic of No Deal
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?0 -
That's not the mission statement of your company is it?Charles said:
Hated is no use unless it’s hated AND feared.AlastairMeeks said:Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
0 -
AV is NOT proportional!Andy_Cooke said:
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes."TheScreamingEagles said:I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
- P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either.""
- David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates.""
- Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?0 -
The answer is you negotiate.FF43 said:
Sorry, should always check before hyperventilating.williamglenn said:
That's a 2 year old front page about her Lancaster House speech.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
Anyhoo, Mrs May hasn't ruled out No Deal. Far from it. Which brings me to a semi-serious question. What should you do if someone threatens to self-harm if you don't do what they demand? You obviously want to prevent anything bad happening, but you also don't want to encourage destructive behaviour. I
I think this is what the Germans were referring to yesterday.
There are some indications Countries in the EU are waking up to the default nature of A50's no deal and are getting very worried
As the days pass and no deal remains the likelihood of compromise increases. Take no deal off the table and that is extinguished at a stroke, playing into EU and remainers hands
See Italy broke ranks today telling the EU to negotiate.
Across in Canada my daughter in law, who works in tourism for BC, has said the Canadian shot by the Chinese has not died but Canada - China diplomatic relationship heats up by the day and is not looking good.
She has been stopped from all promotional tours to China which accounted for a lot of her work and BC tourism and China is 'high risk' for any Canadians intending visiting it
Who would have thought Canada would be involved in a major dispute with China0 -
"What also sticks in the gullet is that Cooper Tires constructed a purpose-built factory in Serbia, where labour costs are much cheaper than the UK, which is now going to take on the work from Melksham.ralphmalph said:
https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/17368721.unions-blame-300-cooper-tire-job-losses-on-cheap-imports/Benpointer said:
Do you have a link for the west country tyre manufacturer story Taxman?
“What adds insult to injury is that our members went over to Serbia to train the workers there in production techniques – and now they have lost their jobs to them."0 -
It's not irrational to be prepared to pay a price to stand up for your principles. The problem comes when you miscalculate the price and misapprehend your principles.FF43 said:
Self harm isn't a card. Surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
This ultra sensible Big G NW understands you do not take your ultimate card of not agreeing in any deal off the table.RobD said:
Why? It removes probably the most damaging scenario for the EU from the table.FF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
It is not my preferred option but option it is and must remain until replaced with a sensible compromise0 -
Fair enough. There are precious few anywhere to be found in Parliament. All is perfect in UK politics but for the influence of the EU.Sunil_Prasannan said:
And me: "House of Unelected Has-Beens".dixiedean said:
But it isn't a shocker. It may defy precedent, but the Speaker is an absolute Monarch w.r.t. Parliamentary procedures. His Word is Law.Omnium said:
That'd be a constitutional shocker. Bercow may finish up not just missing out on honours, but having his head lopped off in the Tower. You can't simply usurp control and get away with it.HYUFD said:
May won't do it, Parliament will, led by Grieve with Bercow's supportdots said:
On the topic of No DealFF43 said:
I feel the barely perceptible twinges of sympathy for Theresa May and then she comes with this nonsense. The woman's dangerous.TheScreamingEagles said:
And on the topic of No Deal, let me make this as clear as I can. You avoid No Deal like you avoid bubonic plague. You do actually rule it out. It's bonkers we're even discussing this. We even have the normally ultra sensible Mr G NW saying Mrs May can't rule out the plague, sorry No Deal, because it might us look weak in front of the EU. Those whom the gods wish to destroy ...
Not just Corbyn, who unwisely won’t go in and discuss with May or Liddington, but just about everybody else who have been in have also stated the condition take No Deal off the table. But has any of these people explained how that is done? Have the media asked this enough? If she wanted to, if she thought she could get away with taking No Deal off the table, how does May do it? For the sake of clarity is it technically possible or impossible?
And, as I have pointed out before, Leavers* have shown the square root of no interest in any type of Constitutional reform of any kind ever, so it is a bit rich to moan about it.
*Richard Tyndall being a lone exception in the wilderness.
Then bitch and moan when someone uses our ludicrous and outdated Constitution against them.0 -
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I think you are right. I don't see how Corbyn offering a referendum harms him, particularly if May holds to an unpopular deal. It would be hard for leavers to paint Corbyn as a remainer if he is offering a referendum on a harder brexit than May is offering, but he is also giving remainers the chance to overturn the vote if they can get the numbers. Meanwhile May clings to her deal which even most of her own party won't support.ping said:FPT; kyf_100
re lab reacting to a GE by offering a referendum in the manifesto.
I did dismiss your post (a GE offering a ref? Why not just say what you want and do it? Brenda from bristol reaction.. etc)
But thinking more about it... Labour could use Brexit as a bribe for their real agenda quite successfully.....
Something like: Vote Lab and we'll hold an immediate referendum, offering;
A ) No Deal Brexit. Extend A50 for 12 months & throw £100bn at no deal preps
B ) Remain. Spend the £100bn on social housing / social care / Laboury stuff.
Money from borrowing and moderate tax increases.
Corbyn will implement the result, as advised by the British people.
Could work to unite lab factions & win back the WWC Brexit heartlands?
I firmly believe that all Corbyn needs to reach Number 10 is for May to call another snap election "to get the people to endorse her deal" and for Corbyn to pivot to a second referendum on the first day of campaigning.
The reason why he does not endorse a second referendum now is not because he wants to leave (although he probably does), it is because he is hoping May will walk directly into this enormous bear trap.0 -
Um - correct. So?Sunil_Prasannan said:
AV is NOT proportional!Andy_Cooke said:
So - three people, who were each given majority power by a minority of the vote, defended the system that gave them that power?Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes."TheScreamingEagles said:I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
- P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.
"Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either.""
- David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
"Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates.""
- Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
Are we supposed to find this surprising or illuminating in any way?
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Thank you, but see the points others have raised about a 2/3rds vote overriding the 14 days. However, even given that it's a bit tight. As in Parliament would have to dissolve next Thursday?AndyJS said:
I think you're right and the New Statesman is wrong.viewcode said:
Um, hold on a minute. Under FTPA 2011 as amended you need 14 days to do the second vote of confidence, then the washup, then 25 working days to the election. That's a minimum of seven weeks. If she started yesterday the earliest she could do it would be March 7th. What am I missing?AndyJS said:"At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/01/three-cabinet-ministers-have-told-their-local-parties-prepare-general0
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