Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
Hated is no use unless it’s hated AND feared.
That's not the mission statement of your company is it?
No. The strategic mission to be independent and family owned on a 25, 50 and 100 year basis. The mission statement is to treat customers as we would want to be treated ourselves
I hope you wish to be treated grandly, like an Ottoman Sultan then, since as a customer I would love companies to treat me that way.
If that's your mission statement, it's stupid and you're doomed.
Your mission statement should be "we plan to continue to exist, screw your parochial 'family company' bullshit, this is capitalism and we've got bills to pay".
The true strategic mission should be 'become an Amazon affiliate'. Because it's either that or wait for the day Amazon decides to get into your line of business and uses its terrifying economies of scale and logistic networks to undercut you until you bleed to death.
Mrs Bezos may soon prove to be the first person who has managed to bleed Amazon once her divorce gets under way
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
She will have to, the most powerful person in the country for the next few weeks is no longer Theresa May, it is John Bercow, ably supported by Dominic Grieve.
That likely means a Remain v Deal referendum, though May can at least blame it on Parliament forcing EUref2 on her rather than she proposing it herself. Secretly I also doubt she would be that unhappy, the Deal tends to be rather more popular with voters than MPs, especially if head to head with Remain and the only means to preserve Brexit
The only way May can exercise and control now is by calling an election, which is why I think it is likely.
She can't as even if she got a majority of 100, given at least a third of Tory MPs would likely be committed No Dealers that would still not ensure her Deal got through.
In fact the only way the Deal may get through now is in a Remain v Deal referendum (or better still but less likely to pass the Commons, a Deal v No Deal referendum)
I think those 380 or so Tories (in a 100 maj) would find it pretty difficult not to vote her Deal through if she had just won an election on the back of a promise to deliver her Deal (a manifesto all the Tories had stood on).
At what point does repeatedly saying repeatedly saying "nothing has changed" in response to every unfolding national crisis switch from being an amusing mental illness to a terrifying risk to national security?
Asking for a Prime Minister.
Your repeated comments on TM mental illness is an insult to all the people suffering in this country
You use it to try and make yourself feel better but it is just pathetic
TM has many faults but to continue to imply she has a mental illness is absurd unless you can prove your accusation.
I expect May has at least some symptoms of mild high functioning aspergers, indeed I expect plenty on PB probably are in a similar boat, myself included. Though I state that as a suspected fact not an insult
We know she is diabetic but unless medical confirmation of other conditions are made it is not in anyone's interest to make statements without evidence
I mean she's not high-functioning. One of the features of a high-functioning individual is, though they are neurologically incapable of *understanding* human behaviour, they at least have learned how to fake competence.
I don't think anybody would credibly accuse May of faking competence.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Somebody should have told Vote Leave that three years ago.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
Everyone wants the responsibility out of their hands. That's the problem.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Don't we have more admirals than ships these days?
41 Admirals and 50 ships (if you count OPVs, MCMs and don't count HMS Victory)
The British Army has more more horses than tanks though.
I stand corrected.
Not sure about your implication that the Army equivalent of Admirals is horses though.
At least you can ride horses.
Yes, but if you do it at sea the horses drown. It's a problem.
This is why so few admirals plough the waves these days.
Although on a serious note, shouldn't we include commodores as well when talking about admirals? There are rather a lot of them and they rank above a ship's captain.
They could fix it all by constraining 'rank inflation'. The Captain of QNLZ is a Rear Admiral for fuck's sake. I feel justified in militating for this now that my largely meaningless OF-4 promotion is under my belt.
At what point does repeatedly saying repeatedly saying "nothing has changed" in response to every unfolding national crisis switch from being an amusing mental illness to a terrifying risk to national security?
Asking for a Prime Minister.
Your repeated comments on TM mental illness is an insult to all the people suffering in this country
You use it to try and make yourself feel better but it is just pathetic
TM has many faults but to continue to imply she has a mental illness is absurd unless you can prove your accusation.
I expect May has at least some symptoms of mild high functioning aspergers, indeed I expect plenty on PB probably are in a similar boat, myself included. Though I state that as a suspected fact not an insult
We know she is diabetic but unless medical confirmation of other conditions are made it is not in anyone's interest to make statements without evidence
I mean she's not high-functioning. One of the features of a high-functioning individual is, though they are neurologically incapable of *understanding* human behaviour, they at least have learned how to fake competence.
I don't think anybody would credibly accuse May of faking competence.
Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
Hated is no use unless it’s hated AND feared.
That's not the mission statement of your company is it?
No. The strategic mission to be independent and family owned on a 25, 50 and 100 year basis. The mission statement is to treat customers as we would want to be treated ourselves
I hope you wish to be treated grandly, like an Ottoman Sultan then, since as a customer I would love companies to treat me that way.
If that's your mission statement, it's stupid and you're doomed.
Your mission statement should be "we plan to continue to exist, screw your parochial 'family company' bullshit, this is capitalism and we've got bills to pay".
The true strategic mission should be 'become an Amazon affiliate'. Because it's either that or wait for the day Amazon decides to get into your line of business and uses its terrifying economies of scale and logistic networks to undercut you until you bleed to death.
Mrs Bezos may soon prove to be the first person who has managed to bleed Amazon once her divorce gets under way
If I were him I'd just pay to have her 'taken care of'.
"Make it look like an accident. And please, I don't want her to suffer... much."
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
Everyone wants the responsibility out of their hands. That's the problem.
Except May, who's too unable to read human behaviour to realize that everyone else is boxing her in to take 100% of the blame.
She still thinks the game is "deliver the best deal for Britain" rather than the actual game which is "no deal Chaos, May blamed".
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
But obviously that would involve a danger of splitting the parliamentary Tory party almost exactly in two.
It has seemed pretty apparent to me for quite some time that the cost of a getting a Brexit deal would be the fall of the Tory government, both for the reason you mention and the DUP. Sucks for them, but if May and most of her party do not, in fact, believe no deal is better than a bad deal, then the national interest they talk about would be to do what it takes to get a deal through even at the cost of a split and a fall.
I suppose it's not a question of whether No Deal is worse, but of how much worse. And the same for Labour's calculation of its party advantage.
I can see either party putting political advantage above the good of the country. I can't see them initiating absolute catastrophe for party advantage. I wonder how well informed most MPs are about what would happen if we leave with No Deal.
But that won't be the trade off. So you exit to No Deal. Now what? It's the catastrophe that makes No Deal so bad for the Party (and incidentally for the country)
Well, if the Tories thought it would be a catastrophe that would be another strong reason for them not to do it - because they'd get the blame.
But the point I'm making is that if they just thought it would be damaging to the country but not catastrophic, then they might think that was preferable to splitting the party.
You've been fairly quiet this week. Hope all is well.
If you wouldn't mind indulging me on a cold Friday night, first question - do you think an election at this time desirable or beneficial or necessary?
Second question - the Prime Minister has always stood four square opposed to a second referendum, do you support this or would you like to see the WA put to the people in a referendum?
Third question (to win absolutely nothing at all) - should Leaving without a Deal be on the ballot paper and how do you think elements of the Conservative Party will react if it is not?
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Somebody should have told Vote Leave that three years ago.
Fair call, however repeating an error doesn't make things better. Perhaps parliament will manage to have a plan, I hope so, but people parroting a line about 'taking back control' because it throws a Leave line back in leave's face is not initself a sign that anything positive will come of it. It's like if people throw the 'Brexit means Brexit' line back in May's face to counter their own vague unicorn ideals with her previous vague unicorn statements. It was stupid when she said it, and it'd be stupid if anyone else says it.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
Not sure how much comfort pity is. I pity May, I don't respect her.
Whilst obviously a PM would prefer to be respected than pitied, it's better to have the pity than neither? Which is one thing May still has over Brown, since, even after the public had lost respect for him, they also thought he was such an unlikeable, untrustworthy person that they didn't even sympathise with him.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Vote for the only thing there probably is a majority for in Parliament now, a Remain v Deal referendum
Already noted. There's nothing unbelievable about it, nor even unreasonable. She's told them and everyone before she could not deliver without certain things, which the EU won't give, and she isn't lying or bluffing about that, the parliamentary vote proves that. They've no reason to change their minds now, but May cannot give more to the EU or ask for less without losing loads more votes, so as stupid as repeating the demands are they cannot be a surprise to any diplomat, on any side, who is keeping up with the political situation.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
But obviously that would involve a danger of splitting the parliamentary Tory party almost exactly in two.
It has seemed pretty apparent to me for quite some time that the cost of a getting a Brexit deal would be the fall of the Tory government, both for the reason you mention and the DUP. Sucks for them, but if May and most of her party do not, in fact, believe no deal is better than a bad deal, then the national interest they talk about would be to do what it takes to get a deal through even at the cost of a split and a fall.
I suppose it's not a question of whether No Deal is worse, but of how much worse. And the same for Labour's calculation of its party advantage.
I can see either party putting political advantage above the good of the country. I can't see them initiating absolute catastrophe for party advantage. I wonder how well informed most MPs are about what would happen if we leave with No Deal.
But that won't be the trade off. So you exit to No Deal. Now what? It's the catastrophe that makes No Deal so bad for the Party (and incidentally for the country)
Well, if the Tories thought it would be a catastrophe that would be another strong reason for them not to do it - because they'd get the blame.
But the point I'm making is that if they just thought it would be damaging to the country but not catastrophic, then they might think that was preferable to splitting the party.
Indeed they have lost their minds. Or rather, to return to your original question, some of them have. Other Tory MPs are well aware of the looming disaster.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
She will have to, the most powerful person in the country for the next few weeks is no longer Theresa May, it is John Bercow, ably supported by Dominic Grieve.
That likely means a Remain v Deal referendum, though May can at least blame it on Parliament forcing EUref2 on her rather than she proposing it herself. Secretly I also doubt she would be that unhappy, the Deal tends to be rather more popular with voters than MPs, especially if head to head with Remain and the only means to preserve Brexit
The only way May can exercise and control now is by calling an election, which is why I think it is likely.
She can't as even if she got a majority of 100, given at least a third of Tory MPs would likely be committed No Dealers that would still not ensure her Deal got through.
In fact the only way the Deal may get through now is in a Remain v Deal referendum (or better still but less likely to pass the Commons, a Deal v No Deal referendum)
I think those 380 or so Tories (in a 100 maj) would find it pretty difficult not to vote her Deal through if she had just won an election on the back of a promise to deliver her Deal (a manifesto all the Tories had stood on).
Except I doubt they all would stand on that promise, many would issue their own manifestos backing No Deal as many Tory candidates issued their own manifestos in 1997 ruling out the single currency against official party policy under Major which still left the option open to join it
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
Parliament has chopped her legs off and you expect her to be able to sprint in two opposite directions simultaneously? That's basically what she's facing, given she loses votes whichever way she goes. She's helped get to that point, but that is the point we're at regardless, she cannot change position without knowing parliament will back it, and they cannot agree.
Unless Labour agree to back something it's no deal. Labour would agree a GE, and many of them want a referendum too. I don't see what else is up for discussion. In the meantime, it's a holding pattern with the EU - since they've insisted they won't change anything substantive, it doesn't matter what May says to them except to confirm our eventual capitulation to remain, acceptance of the deal or telling them to bugger off.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Truth is, she doesn't. There is zero room for manoeuvre.
* Labour will not support any deal, under ANY circumstances. * The ERG and the DUP will only support a deal without a backstop. * The EU will never agree to a deal without a backstop.
May will sooner or later realise that circumstances and politics are determined to push her all the way to the cliff edge.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Truth is, she doesn't. There is zero room for manoeuvre.
* Labour will not support any deal, under ANY circumstances. * The ERG and the DUP will only support a deal without a backstop. * The EU will never agree to a deal without a backstop.
May will sooner or later realise that circumstances and politics are determined to push her all the way to the cliff edge.
On this, at least, I think you have summed it up completely correctly.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Well you could be correct. One would hope May could see reality then eventually before it is to late. However I think she is past any sort of rational reasoning .
You've been fairly quiet this week. Hope all is well.
If you wouldn't mind indulging me on a cold Friday night, first question - do you think an election at this time desirable or beneficial or necessary?
Second question - the Prime Minister has always stood four square opposed to a second referendum, do you support this or would you like to see the WA put to the people in a referendum?
Third question (to win absolutely nothing at all) - should Leaving without a Deal be on the ballot paper and how do you think elements of the Conservative Party will react if it is not?
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
On your first question no I do not think an election is desirable and personally I backed May's Deal but think it will have to be put to the people now in a referendum given there is no majority in Parliament for any 1 option but may be for a Remain v Deal ballot. I would be happy with having No Deal on the ballot but Parliament would not, if we do get a Remain v Deal referendum it will be Labour, LD, SNP MPs and say 50 Tory MPs (Remainers and a few ex Deal switchers) who will pass it, most Tory MPs will vote against
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
Labour don't want No Deal, they want to destroy the Tories. All they need to do is push May all the way to the cliff edge. If we get to there May will have only two choices:
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins 2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
Everyone wants the responsibility out of their hands. That's the problem.
Except May, who's too unable to read human behaviour to realize that everyone else is boxing her in to take 100% of the blame.
She still thinks the game is "deliver the best deal for Britain" rather than the actual game which is "no deal Chaos, May blamed".
But May can simply turn it on the Remainers and say "if you wanted to avoid No Deal, you should have voted for my deal".
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
They might vote for a Remain v No Deal referendum but would prefer Remain v Deal
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Easily enough - if she put the National Interest ahead of her Party. She says nothing, writes a letter to Brussels revoking A50 and sends it off via courier. When it is safely there, she goes quietly to the Dispatch Box and announces an immediate free vote - back A50 revocation or the cliff-edge.
It is a binary choice. The choice that was always on offer. Stay or Go - no ifs, no frills, no buts.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Vote for the only thing there probably is a majority for in Parliament now, a Remain v Deal referendum
Is there a majority for that ? Neither front bench is keen.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
But May can simply turn it on the Remainers and say "if you wanted to avoid No Deal, you should have voted for my deal".
She could, if she wanted to be laughed at I guess. It was barely convincing as an argument before the deal was monstered by Parliament and opinion polls on a truly galactic scale.
I suppose you could say the argument was "retro kitsch" or something.
Be under no illusions, if we go over the cliff edge with May at the wheel, the Tories are finished for a looooong time.
What a bad week. May drove us down a cul de sac. She has no reverse gear, no steering wheel. Meanwhile Corbyn, who could push us out of the mess rammed us into a brick wall and started kicking the car. Any other potential route out is immediately closed down.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
Labour don't want No Deal, they want to destroy the Tories. All they need to do is push May all the way to the cliff edge. If we get to there May will have only two choices:
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins 2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
Note that in this strategy there is not the slightest consideration for what might be best for the country as a whole - or even certain classes within it, such as the working class for example.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Vote for the only thing there probably is a majority for in Parliament now, a Remain v Deal referendum
Is there a majority for that ? Neither front bench is keen.
"Things don't happen just because Prime Ministers are very keen on them! Neville Chamberlain was very keen on peace."
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
Labour don't want No Deal, they want to destroy the Tories. All they need to do is push May all the way to the cliff edge. If we get to there May will have only two choices:
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins 2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
1. The Tory Party will never revoke, neither I expect will Corbyn, if we Remain it will only be through EUref2.
2. If Corbyn has not committed to back EUref2 and we crash out with No Deal then the LDs or a new centrist party could benefit from any Tory defections, not Labour
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
They might vote for a Remain v No Deal referendum but would prefer Remain v Deal
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
Now, I do actually think they have enough allies across the House to get a referendum, but they clearly are prepared to see no deal happen in the attempt, even if unsuccessful. They don't fear it as they say they do. Indeed, politically Labour might gain from it, and the idea that is not in some of their minds would not hold up, any more than the idea it is not firmly in many Tory minds.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
What a bad week. May drove us down a cul de sac. She has no reverse gear, no steering wheel. Meanwhile Corbyn, who could push us out of the mess rammed us into a brick wall and started kicking the car. Any other potential route out is immediately closed down.
Yep. Monday looks like being a laughing stock, or a horror show, and no one is showing any sign of coming down off the ledge (oh, by the way the cul de sac is on the edge of a cliff as well). There's been this assumption all along that they won't really let it happen like that, but the politics is closing off the options, and the sides appear to be getting more unreasonable, not less. No one is breaking first. It makes me sick.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Easily enough - if she put the National Interest ahead of her Party. She says nothing, writes a letter to Brussels revoking A50 and sends it off via courier. When it is safely there, she goes quietly to the Dispatch Box and announces an immediate free vote - back A50 revocation or the cliff-edge.
It is a binary choice. The choice that was always on offer. Stay or Go - no ifs, no frills, no buts.
But an absence of concern for the interests of the country is the one thing she has in common with the Leader of the Opposition.
We wouldn't be in this effing mess if our politicians were in the habit of putting the country's interests ahead of the Party's.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on the staying in the single market and customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Perhaps the best we can hope for now is that May will carry on making the noises she thinks will keep the Tory party in one piece, but will acquiesce in the House of Commons taking the responsibility out of her hands.
Yes. Personally I don't think it's in our interest for the EU to agree to an extension otherwise, since we all know what will happen: TM will spin things out until the new deadline, and we'll have had some more months of uncertainty and achieved nothing further.
Which way should you move to get more MPs to support your deal?
I'll give you a clue - it doesn't involve inviting the ERG and the bowler hats round for tea and biscuits.
A majority of Tory MPs back May's Deal or No Deal though and it is actually about 300 MPs not 400 MPs who think May's Deal is not BINO enough (100 of the 400 MPs who voted against May's Deal were No Dealers) and 90% of those who think May's Deal is not BINO enough are not Tory MPs.
Hence May cannot move any further towards BINO, so votes on staying in the single market and permanently in the customs union and on EUref2 with a Remain option will have to come from MPs themselves not the PM which will come into play in the next few weeks thanks to the Grieve amendment and with Bercow's support.
Sorry 300 not 400.
However, just because the only route to a majority is cross party is not a reason to rule it out.
May might not want to acknowledge the reality but I think the majority of the cabinet now do.
Indeed and Parliament is about to take control
What do they intend to do with it? Control without a plan won't be control at all.
Vote for the only thing there probably is a majority for in Parliament now, a Remain v Deal referendum
Is there a majority for that ? Neither front bench is keen.
It will be backbenchers who vote for it using the Grieve amendment
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
Labour don't want No Deal, they want to destroy the Tories. All they need to do is push May all the way to the cliff edge. If we get to there May will have only two choices:
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins 2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
1. The Tory Party will never revoke, neither I expect will Corbyn, if we Remain it will only be through EUref2.
2. If Corbyn has not committed to back EUref2 and we crash out with No Deal then the LDs or a new centrist party could benefit from any Tory defections, not Labour
This is my point, of course. Corbyn doesn't care about remain or no deal. He seems totally uninterested in Brexit as anything other than a means to an end.
As an old Trot, what he REALLY cares about is laying waste to the Tories. *If* he can force May all the way to the cliff edge, every possible decision from there leads to disaster for them.
We should be surprised not in the least that Corbyn is trying to push May to the cliff edge, for that is where the best interests of himself and his party lie.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
What a bad week. May drove us down a cul de sac. She has no reverse gear, no steering wheel. Meanwhile Corbyn, who could push us out of the mess rammed us into a brick wall and started kicking the car. Any other potential route out is immediately closed down.
Grieve/Bercow/Boles will betray the people rescue sterling...
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
Good luck with that. I hope you receive good news.
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
It pleases his members, and he can say it is a free vote and lay low like the last one, while watching the Tories blow themselves apart.
But his seeming (and surprising) reticence is one reason why risking no deal in pursuit of remain (sorry, a referendum) is a genuine thing, and why MPs who want one but cry about no deal are being phoney. They wouldn't do anything to stop it, they are content to see it happen rather than vote for the deal for instance, and fair enough if that is what they want, but they won;t convince me they truly think no deal is a disaster therefore.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
They might vote for a Remain v No Deal referendum but would prefer Remain v Deal
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
Now, I do actually think they have enough allies across the House to get a referendum, but they clearly are prepared to see no deal happen in the attempt, even if unsuccessful. They don't fear it as they say they do. Indeed, politically Labour might gain from it, and the idea that is not in some of their minds would not hold up, any more than the idea it is not firmly in many Tory minds.
I think most MPs who back a referendum, certainly on the Labour side, back the People's Vote argument that it should be Deal v Remain but of course until we get to the vote we will not know
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
How does she turn it off Mr Hat Trim? On her desk next to the A50 button is bright one saying revoke. Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Easily enough - if she put the National Interest ahead of her Party. She says nothing, writes a letter to Brussels revoking A50 and sends it off via courier. When it is safely there, she goes quietly to the Dispatch Box and announces an immediate free vote - back A50 revocation or the cliff-edge.
It is a binary choice. The choice that was always on offer. Stay or Go - no ifs, no frills, no buts.
But an absence of concern for the interests of the country is the one thing she has in common with the Leader of the Opposition.
We wouldn't be in this effing mess if our politicians were in the habit of putting the country's interests ahead of the Party's.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
You misunderstand. May truly isn't pursuing a No Deal endgame. She still believes, because she's dangerously broken, that her deal is the best deal and she can deliver it.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
Wrong, it is only Corbyn and Hoey and a handful of others in Labour who want No Deal, the vast majority of Labour MPs want EUref2 with a Remain option
They don't want no deal, but nor do they mind it as much as they blubber about it. They'd happily see it happen on the chance of getting a remain option. So would many Tories.
Labour don't want No Deal, they want to destroy the Tories. All they need to do is push May all the way to the cliff edge. If we get to there May will have only two choices:
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins 2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
1. The Tory Party will never revoke, neither I expect will Corbyn, if we Remain it will only be through EUref2.
2. If Corbyn has not committed to back EUref2 and we crash out with No Deal then the LDs or a new centrist party could benefit from any Tory defections, not Labour
This is my point, of course. Corbyn doesn't care about remain or no deal. He seems totally uninterested in Brexit as anything other than a means to an end.
As an old Trot, what he REALLY cares about is laying waste to the Tories. *If* he can force May all the way to the cliff edge, every possible decision from there leads to disaster for them.
We should be surprised not in the least that Corbyn is trying to push May to the cliff edge, for that is where the best interests of himself and his party lie.
That is where Corbyn thinks his interests lie but most of his party remain committed to EUref2 with a Remain option
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
Irrespective of our political differences, I wish you and especially your father well and hope the procedure has the desired outcome and your father enjoys a swift recovery.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
Good luck with that. I hope you receive good news.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
Irrespective of our political differences, I wish you and especially your father well and hope the procedure has the desired outcome and your father enjoys a swift recovery.
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
It pleases his members, and he can say it is a free vote and lay low like the last one, while watching the Tories blow themselves apart.
Not the members he cares about. PV-ers are all Blairite traitor scum.
Corbyn's only mildly polite concession to the irritating fungible mass of centrist FBPE fungus going on endlessly and tediously about a people's vote is that he's just ignored a second ref rather than publicly denounce what an obviously terrible, stupid idea it is.
In any case, Corbyn's wheeze of boxing May in and pushing her closer to the cliff edge and disaster seems to be working beautifully. I see zero reason for him to change.
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
In a normal world, some of the route maps out of this might include a Labour leadership election. I think in current circumstances, if one were triggered, there is something in the rules linking a challenge to conference, so perhaps a bloody minded NEC would still try to schedule it for October!
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
It pleases his members, and he can say it is a free vote and lay low like the last one, while watching the Tories blow themselves apart.
Not the members he cares about. PV-ers are all Blairite traitor scum.
Corbyn's only mildly polite concession to the irritating fungible mass of centrist FBPE fungus going on endlessly and tediously about a people's vote is that he's just ignored a second ref rather than publicly denounce what an obviously terrible, stupid idea it is.
In any case, Corbyn's wheeze of boxing May in and pushing her closer to the cliff edge and disaster seems to be working beautifully. I see zero reason for him to change.
He might not, hence my anger at the phoney no deal complainers.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
I agree. My point was there's no guarantee they will get any referendum and in seeking one to the end they might cause the no deal they falsely claim they will not permit.
What reason does Corbyn have for backing a referendum? What does it gain him?
In a normal world, some of the route maps out of this might include a Labour leadership election. I think in current circumstances, if one were triggered, there is something in the rules linking a challenge to conference, so perhaps a bloody minded NEC would still try to schedule it for October!
Yes, Labour needs to convene a special conference to affirm the result of the electoral college vote. And the NEC controls the timetable. And the NEC is majority Momentum-slate.
Joe Biden is going to be very hard to beat if he runs. Age is NOT a factor if the last presidential round is anything to go by plus who gives a toss if he is up against an equally aged Trump? O'Rourke at this point is a name in the news and f**k all else so his position in the betting is not yet good value. He is a wait and see.
Senior Democrats are seeking a solid and optimistic middle of the roader just as much as some 'he/she is the next Kennedy' figure. What they want to avoid is a leftist packed field and bloody primary season.
Re: Sanders. The hierarchy will seek to bring him down. That has already started, the aim being that he doesn't even start a run.
Guys, we're less than an hour away from 19th Jan. You know what that means?
19th Jan is the day that Prof. John Curtice estimates, based on demographic trends, that the UK's leave majority will have died off from old age, gammon-related illness and general wastage.
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
So sorry to hear that - I hope the operation goes well.
Thanks, operation is on Monday so will keep my fingers crossed and will be going to see him later in the week provided all goes to plan. The consultant seems to think they got it reasonably early which is something but of course you never really know
I will be surprised if we have an election before May 2nd this year - same day as Local Elections.
And while you are here did you know Scottish labour has produced a media video extolling the wonder of Scotland and it's scenery using mountains from ......North Wales
Widely panned in Scotland and laughed at here in North Wales as the Welsh media to to town over it
And while you are here did you know Scottish labour has produced a media video extolling the wonder of Scotland and it's scenery using mountains from ......North Wales
Widely panned in Scotland and laughed at here in North Wales as the Welsh media to to town over it
They were STUNT SCOTTISH MOUNTAINS. You just need to learn to suspend your desbelief.
...Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel...
Just remember that we are a bunch of nutters who spend too much time talking about politics on the internet, but family is the important thing. Go look after your Dad for a while: he has a good chance and I hope he will be OK. We'll be here when you get back. Good luck.
You've been fairly quiet this week. Hope all is well.
If you wouldn't mind indulging me on a cold Friday night, first question - do you think an election at this time desirable or beneficial or necessary?
Second question - the Prime Minister has always stood four square opposed to a second referendum, do you support this or would you like to see the WA put to the people in a referendum?
Third question (to win absolutely nothing at all) - should Leaving without a Deal be on the ballot paper and how do you think elements of the Conservative Party will react if it is not?
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
On your first question no I do not think an election is desirable and personally I backed May's Deal but think it will have to be put to the people now in a referendum given there is no majority in Parliament for any 1 option but may be for a Remain v Deal ballot. I would be happy with having No Deal on the ballot but Parliament would not, if we do get a Remain v Deal referendum it will be Labour, LD, SNP MPs and say 50 Tory MPs (Remainers and a few ex Deal switchers) who will pass it, most Tory MPs will vote against
And while you are here did you know Scottish labour has produced a media video extolling the wonder of Scotland and it's scenery using mountains from ......North Wales
Widely panned in Scotland and laughed at here in North Wales as the Welsh media to to town over it
They were STUNT SCOTTISH MOUNTAINS. You just need to learn to suspend your desbelief.
It was Tryfan, a much loved mountain 25 miles from my home
Joe Biden is going to be very hard to beat if he runs. Age is NOT a factor if the last presidential round is anything to go by plus who gives a toss if he is up against an equally aged Trump?
There is stacks of footage of Biden being handsy and creepy with women young and old. He was damn lucky to make it out with the Vice-Presidency and his reputation semi-intact. He would not survive scrutiny in these #MeToo times.
...Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel...
Just remember that we are a bunch of nutters who spend too much time talking about politics on the internet, but family is the important thing. Go look after your Dad for a while: he has a good chance and I hope he will be OK. We'll be here when you get back. Good luck.
It's going to be No Deal, because the malfunctioning Maybot will let it happen, and the chickenshit simpletons of the Tory front bench have no idea how to turn it off.
Surely at some point Hammond Gauke Rudd and others will resign if May continues to a no deal endgame .
I've never heard of Liz Kershaw but if she isn't a spoof she must be one of the stupidest people ever to have been asked to do a paper review.
From the report: "if you believe in Brexit you can say ‘isn’t it good news that means Philips believes it can still transport these bottles and warmers frictionless trade back into the UK."
You've been fairly quiet this week. Hope all is well.
If you wouldn't mind indulging me on a cold Friday night, first question - do you think an election at this time desirable or beneficial or necessary?
Second question - the Prime Minister has always stood four square opposed to a second referendum, do you support this or would you like to see the WA put to the people in a referendum?
Third question (to win absolutely nothing at all) - should Leaving without a Deal be on the ballot paper and how do you think elements of the Conservative Party will react if it is not?
Been busy at work and my father is having surgery next week to remove a tumour in his bowel so have not had a great deal of time to post with other things going on (and may have lost my permission anyway for a time) but have been lurking from time to time.
On your first question no I do not think an election is desirable and personally I backed May's Deal but think it will have to be put to the people now in a referendum given there is no majority in Parliament for any 1 option but may be for a Remain v Deal ballot. I would be happy with having No Deal on the ballot but Parliament would not, if we do get a Remain v Deal referendum it will be Labour, LD, SNP MPs and say 50 Tory MPs (Remainers and a few ex Deal switchers) who will pass it, most Tory MPs will vote against
Hope your father's op goes well.
Don't feel obliged to acknowledge all the best wishes individually, but I join in hoping the op and recovery go well.
Comments
I don't think anybody would credibly accuse May of faking competence.
"Make it look like an accident. And please, I don't want her to suffer... much."
She still thinks the game is "deliver the best deal for Britain" rather than the actual game which is "no deal Chaos, May blamed".
But the point I'm making is that if they just thought it would be damaging to the country but not catastrophic, then they might think that was preferable to splitting the party.
So the USMCA is the Navy's Army's Air Force.
This is only matched by the planes that fly off a Chinese aircraft carrier. Which is the People's Liberation Army Navy Airforce.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/18/theresa-may-leaves-diplomats-disbelief-presenting-eu-leaders/
If you wouldn't mind indulging me on a cold Friday night, first question - do you think an election at this time desirable or beneficial or necessary?
Second question - the Prime Minister has always stood four square opposed to a second referendum, do you support this or would you like to see the WA put to the people in a referendum?
Third question (to win absolutely nothing at all) - should Leaving without a Deal be on the ballot paper and how do you think elements of the Conservative Party will react if it is not?
And yes, I have said it myself.
PERFECTLY FINE.
On the other hand, the DUP, the ERG and Labour are pursuing a No Deal endgame. They all want to box her in, push her right to the cliff edge.
She hasn't realised this.
A snap election didn’t work out so well last time but Theresa May could find herself with little choice.
By Charlie Cooper"
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-a-uk-general-election-is-more-likely-than-you-think/
Do you concede how hard it is politically, not just a vociferous bunch of Her MPs but party members, donors, voters supporting her party for her to hit that button?
Unless Labour agree to back something it's no deal. Labour would agree a GE, and many of them want a referendum too. I don't see what else is up for discussion. In the meantime, it's a holding pattern with the EU - since they've insisted they won't change anything substantive, it doesn't matter what May says to them except to confirm our eventual capitulation to remain, acceptance of the deal or telling them to bugger off.
* Labour will not support any deal, under ANY circumstances.
* The ERG and the DUP will only support a deal without a backstop.
* The EU will never agree to a deal without a backstop.
May will sooner or later realise that circumstances and politics are determined to push her all the way to the cliff edge.
One would hope May could see reality then eventually before it is to late.
However I think she is past any sort of rational reasoning .
On your first question no I do not think an election is desirable and personally I backed May's Deal but think it will have to be put to the people now in a referendum given there is no majority in Parliament for any 1 option but may be for a Remain v Deal ballot. I would be happy with having No Deal on the ballot but Parliament would not, if we do get a Remain v Deal referendum it will be Labour, LD, SNP MPs and say 50 Tory MPs (Remainers and a few ex Deal switchers) who will pass it, most Tory MPs will vote against
1. Revoke - Tory party fractures in civil war, Labour wins
2. Crash out with May at the wheel - Tories get the blame for economic chaos, Labour wins.
Labour do not want No Deal, but it is in their strong interests to do nothing that stops May from marching ever closer.
It is a binary choice. The choice that was always on offer. Stay or Go - no ifs, no frills, no buts.
I suppose you could say the argument was "retro kitsch" or something.
Be under no illusions, if we go over the cliff edge with May at the wheel, the Tories are finished for a looooong time.
Corbyn knows this, of course. Hence his actions.
2. If Corbyn has not committed to back EUref2 and we crash out with No Deal then the LDs or a new centrist party could benefit from any Tory defections, not Labour
Now, I do actually think they have enough allies across the House to get a referendum, but they clearly are prepared to see no deal happen in the attempt, even if unsuccessful. They don't fear it as they say they do. Indeed, politically Labour might gain from it, and the idea that is not in some of their minds would not hold up, any more than the idea it is not firmly in many Tory minds.
We wouldn't be in this effing mess if our politicians were in the habit of putting the country's interests ahead of the Party's.
As an old Trot, what he REALLY cares about is laying waste to the Tories. *If* he can force May all the way to the cliff edge, every possible decision from there leads to disaster for them.
We should be surprised not in the least that Corbyn is trying to push May to the cliff edge, for that is where the best interests of himself and his party lie.
But his seeming (and surprising) reticence is one reason why risking no deal in pursuit of remain (sorry, a referendum) is a genuine thing, and why MPs who want one but cry about no deal are being phoney. They wouldn't do anything to stop it, they are content to see it happen rather than vote for the deal for instance, and fair enough if that is what they want, but they won;t convince me they truly think no deal is a disaster therefore.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1086252588088082432
Corbyn's only mildly polite concession to the irritating fungible mass of centrist FBPE fungus going on endlessly and tediously about a people's vote is that he's just ignored a second ref rather than publicly denounce what an obviously terrible, stupid idea it is.
In any case, Corbyn's wheeze of boxing May in and pushing her closer to the cliff edge and disaster seems to be working beautifully. I see zero reason for him to change.
Yeah, he loves the Labour movement. But he HATES Tories. And we all know hatred is the more powerful emotion.
Playing his part in rendering the Tories unelectable for a generation, regardless of beneficiary, would allow him to retire happy.
Keep positive and do not worry about PB
We will still be around for a long time
Joe Biden is going to be very hard to beat if he runs. Age is NOT a factor if the last presidential round is anything to go by plus who gives a toss if he is up against an equally aged Trump? O'Rourke at this point is a name in the news and f**k all else so his position in the betting is not yet good value. He is a wait and see.
Senior Democrats are seeking a solid and optimistic middle of the roader just as much as some 'he/she is the next Kennedy' figure. What they want to avoid is a leftist packed field and bloody primary season.
Re: Sanders. The hierarchy will seek to bring him down. That has already started, the aim being that he doesn't even start a run.
19th Jan is the day that Prof. John Curtice estimates, based on demographic trends, that the UK's leave majority will have died off from old age, gammon-related illness and general wastage.
I feel like 19th Jan should be a public holiday.
Thanks BigG
Widely panned in Scotland and laughed at here in North Wales as the Welsh media to to town over it
"if you believe in Brexit you can say ‘isn’t it good news that means Philips believes it can still transport these bottles and warmers frictionless trade back into the UK."
Why isn't this woman a cabinet minister?