politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now what?
Comments
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It's not you GabyScott_P said:0 -
He has only one thought in his head, Remain Remain Remain. Until Labour come out for Remain he cannot make that happen no matter his intelligence. He's definitely not able to help come up with a Brexit solution.Benpointer said:Time for Dominic Grieve to sort it out.
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Corbyn’s best chance of ensuring No Deal stays on the table is by refusing to talk about any Deal unless No Deal is taken off the table.
Got it?0 -
Maybe the message to Corbyn is...I'm waiting for you to complete the set of parties coming to me pushing for a 2nd referendum at which point I'll go you've forced my hand.0
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Tell you what, maybe we could do a deal? You get rid, so do we.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
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I’m starting to think we’d be better off with the comedian that is Bozza.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
At least he is able to get around a table, a la his negotiations with Bob Crow back in the day.
I never thought I’d write that but there it is.0 -
Missed it. What did she say? Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes, was it?0
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Where did I say I liked itgrabcocque said:Well, at least Big G liked it. There's always a silver lining.
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I'm in for that deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
Tell you what, maybe we could do a deal? You get rid, so do we.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
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It's very peculiar that the tin-eared automaton has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
I don't know how to put this, but...is she not compos mentis right now? Not in the nasty sense, but the sense where she's stressed to a point where she isn't making sense any more?0
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Ah, I see.Big_G_NorthWales said:
iBenpointer said:
Who was she talking to then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be fair she was not talking to uskle4 said:Well, I'm reassured.
The nation not us politicos
I am not sure it's appropriate that she can get free primetime coverage to simply make a pointed comment about Labour when they have no right of reply.0 -
No insight, no inside information, no stories.Casino_Royale said:
Laura K is very good.Anazina said:
Nor me. Laura K is so shit she has turned me to ITV. Quite happy there. Tom B and Pezza very entertaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BBC 24 hour news is the main one these daysBenpointer said:Theresa relegated to BBC2
I never watch BBC 1 for news
I remember similar jibes about toenails Robinson, or lefty Andy Marr, during the previous administration in the past. I might have even joined in at times.
Goes with the territory.
Name three good stories she has got in her entire career.
She’s a conduit, not a journalist, I’m afraid.0 -
On the basis of that I'm voting Corbyn. He might be useless and dishonest, but at least be comes across as human.0
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He just turned up briefly, promised Crow he would get what he wanted, and left his TfL oppos to write it all up. Not what we want or need at all.Anazina said:
I’m starting to think we’d be better off with the comedian that is Bozza.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
At least he is able to get around a table, a la his negotiations with Bob Crow back in the day.
I never thought I’d write that but there it is.0 -
You think Labour needs the chance to look sillly too?Benpointer said:
Ah, I see.Big_G_NorthWales said:
iBenpointer said:
Who was she talking to then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be fair she was not talking to uskle4 said:Well, I'm reassured.
The nation not us politicos
I am not sure it's appropriate that she can get free primetime coverage to simply make a pointed comment about Labour when they have no right of reply.0 -
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
I bet she goes out and does the full walk on her walking holidays even if it is absolubtely lashing it down with hailstones; has blisters from the day before and there is freezing rain.0
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Very little but put the boot into Corbyn for not taking up her invitationdixiedean said:Missed it. What did she say? Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes, was it?
As I said it was short and sweet and directed to voters to confirm she would complete Brexit0 -
Nothing has changed - Corbyn can't be bothered to talk to me.dixiedean said:Missed it. What did she say? Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes, was it?
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Sturgeon does human too.FF43 said:On the basis of that I'm voting Corbyn. He might be useless and dishonest, but at least be comes across as human.
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Despite being utterly irrelevantTOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
Agreed.MarqueeMark said:
Back in the day, Laura K had quite a fan base on here. Sadly, she hasn't grown into the role.Anazina said:
Nor me. Laura K is so shit she has turned me to ITV. Quite happy there. Tom B and Pezza very entertaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BBC 24 hour news is the main one these daysBenpointer said:Theresa relegated to BBC2
I never watch BBC 1 for news0 -
Me and many millions more.Anazina said:Richard_Tyndall said:
No they call look equally stupid. Lowest common denominatorBenpointer said:
So Labour, SNP and LDems all saying they will only participate in talks if No Deal is ruled out.Scott_P said:
JC not looking quite so stupid now.
My grandma (RIP) used to tell a fable about that Richard. “Oh you bogger, everyone out of step except you?”0 -
Fair point.Jonathan said:
You think Labour needs the chance to look sillly too?Benpointer said:
Ah, I see.Big_G_NorthWales said:
iBenpointer said:
Who was she talking to then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be fair she was not talking to uskle4 said:Well, I'm reassured.
The nation not us politicos
I am not sure it's appropriate that she can get free primetime coverage to simply make a pointed comment about Labour when they have no right of reply.0 -
And over 50% voted for parties that explicitly ruled out a No Deal Brexit.TOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.
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One might suggest you are obsessed.Anazina said:
No insight, no inside information, no stories.Casino_Royale said:
Laura K is very good.Anazina said:
Nor me. Laura K is so shit she has turned me to ITV. Quite happy there. Tom B and Pezza very entertaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BBC 24 hour news is the main one these daysBenpointer said:Theresa relegated to BBC2
I never watch BBC 1 for news
I remember similar jibes about toenails Robinson, or lefty Andy Marr, during the previous administration in the past. I might have even joined in at times.
Goes with the territory.
Name three good stories she has got in her entire career.
She’s a conduit, not a journalist I’m afraid.
I'd have thought the BBC Political Editor job was more conduit than journalist anyway to be honest. It's their job to show up every day to say 30 seconds for us dumb dumbs.0 -
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To be fair, she ain't a good listener!Benpointer said:
Nothing has changed - Corbyn can't be bothered to talk to me.dixiedean said:Missed it. What did she say? Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes, was it?
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Assumes that she has any intention of conceding anything substantive. Come Monday we could very easily be treated to another serving of aerated drivel from behind the dispatch box, with another five days having been run off the clock.kle4 said:
I will defend on that point. What exactly did she not get there? It was a short, pretty pointless statement, but the only clear part was she was claiming to be open to discussions with other parties and would be doing so tomorrow to try to come up with something. Is that not what parliament has told her they want? So she did get it.Fenman said:What was that about? She really doesn't get it does she.
It always comes back to the same question: if May is unwilling to budge then MPs have to decide whether they do something effective to take control of this process, or persist with their posturing.0 -
Oh my, if only!Richard_Nabavi said:
Tell you what, maybe we could do a deal? You get rid, so do we.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
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Most MP's think that a No Deal Brexit will be good for them.kle4 said:
The biggest mistake we are making is believing they are genuine about thinking it a disaster. The actions of MPs do not bear that out. They clearly think it will be bad. But not so bad they need to compromise to a deal, or referendum, or whatever. Not yet anyway.Black_Rook said:Because, if they genuinely believe No Deal to be an unthinkable disaster then, given that they have the means to prevent it, how can they - simply for want of the ability to agree a common plan - fail to do so and emerge with one shred of credibility left? ..
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Not at all it is a fact and relevant what with us being in a democracy an' all.IanB2 said:
Despite being utterly irrelevantTOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
She gives insight and inside information. She also supplies decent analysis and explanations of political events just after they occur for the viewers.Anazina said:
No insight, no inside information, no stories.Casino_Royale said:
Laura K is very good.Anazina said:
Nor me. Laura K is so shit she has turned me to ITV. Quite happy there. Tom B and Pezza very entertaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BBC 24 hour news is the main one these daysBenpointer said:Theresa relegated to BBC2
I never watch BBC 1 for news
I remember similar jibes about toenails Robinson, or lefty Andy Marr, during the previous administration in the past. I might have even joined in at times.
Goes with the territory.
Name three good stories she has got in her entire career.
She’s a conduit, not a journalist I’m afraid.
I’m not sure it’s the job of the BBC political editor to do scoops.0 -
Brexit or a penalty shootout? the choice is yours...0
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I really don't think she wants to No Deal. Or she wouldn't be here fighting over the WA.SouthamObserver said:
And over 50% voted for parties that explicitly ruled out a No Deal Brexit.TOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
I like Nicola Sturgeon now she has shaken off Alex Salmond's influence. He is an aggressive individual and she was picking up bad behaviour from him.williamglenn said:
Sturgeon does human too.FF43 said:On the basis of that I'm voting Corbyn. He might be useless and dishonest, but at least be comes across as human.
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Did you declare your interest @solarflare . If not you should be sent to the naughty step (aka ConservativeHome)solarflare said:
As long as they're not planning a vote to pull Earth out of the Solar Union, can't see howrpjs said:
They couldn’t be any worse, could they?solarflare said:
I for one welcome our new Saturnian overlords.kle4 said:
I'll have you know I have many relatives among the secret alien denizens of Saturn and I find that highly offensive.solarflare said:
Genuinely lol'd, particularly at war with Saturn :-Dviewcode said:
OH HOLY F*****G S**T. EVERYTIME SHE OPENS HER MOUTH THE POUND TAKES A BATH. WHAT IS IT THIS TIME? ELECTION? RESIGNATION? GONU? WAR WITH SATURN? CAN'T YOU LAY OFF THE DRAMA FOR A FEW DAYS GODSDAMMIT?! I CAN ONLY COPE WITH ONE B****Y EMERGENCY AT A TIME.Scott_P said:0 -
No, you are right. I must have taken leave of my senses! Still, he could barely be worse than May so - in those narrow terms - I suppose my OP was fair.IanB2 said:
He just turned up briefly, promised Crow he would get what he wanted, and left his TfL oppos to write it all up. Not what we want or need at all.Anazina said:
I’m starting to think we’d be better off with the comedian that is Bozza.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
At least he is able to get around a table, a la his negotiations with Bob Crow back in the day.
I never thought I’d write that but there it is.0 -
Hip hip hooray.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Very little but put the boot into Corbyn for not taking up her invitationdixiedean said:Missed it. What did she say? Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes, was it?
As I said it was short and sweet and directed to voters to confirm she would complete Brexit
Three cheers for our noble PM.0 -
May wants to use No Deal as a threat to get opposition parties to accept the deal they have previously rejected, because she won't be able to convince her MPs to do likewise.TOPPING said:
I really don't think she wants to No Deal. Or she wouldn't be here fighting over the WA.SouthamObserver said:
And over 50% voted for parties that explicitly ruled out a No Deal Brexit.TOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
You fight fire by taking what it breathes away. This crisis is fuelled by brexit still defined in an infinite number of ways, running at odds with a referendum result which defined it as just one thing. What makes this situation feel like gridlock is people use the word democracy as though democracy is just one thing too, “must honour the democratic mandate” “the credibility of democracy is at stake”. Democracy is not just one thing, there are different forms of it, different as chalk and cheese, the words of Burke on strength of representative democracy versus what voters say on voxpop about their instruction to representatives via the ref result. switch from representative to direct needs strong understanding what to do with direct result in what is still representative system. Where is the evidence this is understood, clarified and mitigated?The_Taxman said:
An interesting post.dots said:Wot now? I say look at how we got here. To be fair to May, Cammo’s policy this will be settled once and for all with remain/leave referendum looks worst decision ever in British politics, putting out a fire by pouring petrol all over it. And some people think it’s good idea to have another one, the fire can be put out by adding even more petrol?
Whether what is Brexit is clear or not, what is role of parliament in delivering ref result? should parliament have a meaningful say, especially to fill in variances where voters were only asked to provide one dimensional answer to multifaceted outcome? We traditionally have representative democracy, a conviction it helps us achieve strong outcomes, strong as in consensual, strong as in delivering results. Let’s remind ourselves what representative democracy is. Edmund Burke (who some call Father of Conservatism): Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
I think the basic problem is only a small part of the population understand the issue and the complexities arising from Brexit. People, particularly vocal Leave supporting individuals seem to think the decision and method of Leaving has little consequence for Government, Parliament, Business and individuals. It is one of the paradox's about Brexit that those members of the public who complain loudest about the EU, do not seem to understand how just leaving will blow the lives apart of millions. They claim economists, trade advisors, business leaders, health managers and others are part of project fear and it will all be alright. David Cameron did make a very poor judgement in calling that referendum but the current PM has built on the foundation of his misjudgement and poured petrol on the mess that could engulf us all. Maybe fighting fire with fire is the only way out via a second referendum?0 -
Combine the two. Get MPs to put out four teams for a special penalty competition (Norwegians, People's Voters, Dealers and No Dealers.) Mr Speaker conducts a semi-final draw, then they get on with it. Can get the whole thing resolved in an hour.Foxy said:Brexit or a penalty shootout? the choice is yours...
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Any PM in the last two hundred years would have resigned yesterday0
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Scott_P said:
Isabel Oakeshott got "good stories" but she's a fucking terrible journalistAnazina said:No insight, no inside information, no stories.
Name three good stories she has got in her entire career.
She’s a conduit, not a journalist I’m afraid.
Yes, for different reasons. The odious Oakeshott is a non-journalist who shops her sources. Nobody is accusing Laura of stepping into any such gutters.0 -
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https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?0 -
Her Plan B in a few days is going to be quite a moment. All ready cringing at that the very thought of it. Nothing has changed.0
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Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.0
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Gallowgate said:
https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?
Now that is a good story.Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?0 -
The most hopeful news in ages.Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?
May needs to meet Corbyn so he gets the blame for 'forcing' her into it?0 -
I honestly don't know how she can say anything but, as she still seems to be against any alternatives. What is going to be said tomorrow that would persuade her she can politically carry enough of her MPs plus opposition MPs on options she has said are terrible?Jonathan said:Her Plan B in a few days is going to be quite a moment. All ready cringing at that the very thought of it. Nothing has changed.
It's going to be to ask for a godsdamned extension from the EU isn't it?
Hadn't heard this,but he's not wrong on the headline stuff there.Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?0 -
It's been repeated far too often already. The clue to the purpose of a general election is in the name.TOPPING said:
Actually she did point out that 80% of people voted for parties committed to Brexit which probably needs to be repeated.grabcocque said:It's very peculiar that the tin-eared has no idea what "it" is, but she's absolutely determined that whatever "it" is, the public want us to get on with "it".
She's convinced she's doing the right thing, even when she has no idea what it is she's doing. That's deranged behaviour.0 -
Black_Rook said:
Combine the two. Get MPs to put out four teams for a special penalty competition (Norwegians, People's Voters, Dealers and No Dealers.) Mr Speaker conducts a semi-final draw, then they get on with it. Can get the whole thing resolved in an hour.Foxy said:Brexit or a penalty shootout? the choice is yours...
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Great, or really great?Luckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
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Since Burke was opposed to 95% of the population having any say in government, why would anyone treat his words as Gospel?dots said:
You fight fire by taking what it breathes away. This crisis is fuelled by brexit still defined in an infinite number of ways, running at odds with a referendum result which defined it as just one thing. What makes this situation feel like gridlock is people use the word democracy as though democracy is just one thing too, “must honour the democratic mandate” “the credibility of democracy is at stake”. Democracy is not just one thing, there are different forms of it, different as chalk and cheese, the words of Burke on strength of representative democracy versus what voters say on voxpop about their instruction to representatives via the ref result. switch from representative to direct needs strong understanding what to do with direct result in what is still representative system. Where is the evidence this is understood, clarified and mitigated?The_Taxman said:
An interesting post.dots said:Wot now? I say look at how we got here. To be fair to May, Cammo’s policy this will be settled once and for all with remain/leave referendum looks worst decision ever in British politics, putting out a fire by pouring petrol all over it. And some people think it’s good idea to have another one, the fire can be put out by adding even more petrol?
Whether what is Brexit is clear or not, what is role of parliament in delivering ref result? should parliament have a meaningful say, especially to fill in variances where voters were only asked to provide one dimensional answer to multifaceted outcome? We traditionally have representative democracy, a conviction it helps us achieve strong outcomes, strong as in consensual, strong as in delivering results. Let’s remind ourselves what representative democracy is. Edmund Burke (who some call Father of Conservatism): Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
I think the basic problem is only a small part of the population understand the issue and the complexities arising from Brexit. People, particularly vocal Leave supporting individuals seem to think the decision and method of Leaving has little consequence for Government, Parliament, Business and individuals. It is one of the paradox'sgers and others are part of project fear and it will all be alright. David Cameron did make a very poor judgement in calling that referendum but the current PM has built on the foundation of his misjudgement and poured petrol on the mess that could engulf us all. Maybe fighting fire with fire is the only way out via a second referendum?0 -
Not quite what you're looking for, I suspect, but a personal favourite Game Theory result of mine...viewcode said:
Possible explanations:Black_Rook said:...if they genuinely believe No Deal to be an unthinkable disaster then, given that they have the means to prevent it, how can they - simply for want of the ability to agree a common plan - fail to do so...
* Isn't there some kind of weird game theory thing that predicts this: a bad outcome because nobody can agree on the good?
* Some MPs actually want the chaos
* Some MPs are too stupid to understand the implications
* Some MPs are sufficiently wealthy to be insulated from the bad effects and have insufficient incentive to avoid them.
Burning money in opera vs football
You can get better results if you are genuinely able to commit to self-harm, even if you don't end up using that option.0 -
The last place to look for objective analysis of Brexit.Luckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
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Here’s hoping!!!Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1085655514854305795?s=21
Has this been discussed? Seems incredible that the CoE is telling people this in an official capacity?
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Actually think inviting opposition leaders WAS her Plan B. She seemed genuinely shocked and grimaced when it was revealed they might not agree with her or would set conditions.0
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Well, what has changed? The options remain crashing out without a deal (the default if parliament can't agree anything else), agreeing the withdrawal deal, or revoking Article 50. That's it, there are no other options, although we could perhaps delay things a bit and then decide between these options in another referendum. And if we agree the current deal, this or another government can adjust the final trade relationship over the next couple of years.Jonathan said:Her Plan B in a few days is going to be quite a moment. All ready cringing at that the very thought of it. Nothing has changed.
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Casino
Peston did a good job of proper journalism when he was at the Beeb.
If bland comprehension is your thing then stick with Laura.
That’s why we have several channels I guess.0 -
Derby go throughBlack_Rook said:
Combine the two. Get MPs to put out four teams for a special penalty competition (Norwegians, People's Voters, Dealers and No Dealers.) Mr Speaker conducts a semi-final draw, then they get on with it. Can get the whole thing resolved in an hour.Foxy said:Brexit or a penalty shootout? the choice is yours...
Waghorn, Nugent and Lawrence all Leicester rejects of course 0 -
In fairness that is true. The EU have made that clear as well. This is it. Three choices, and a lot of faff around how you get to some of those choices.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, what has changed? The options remain crashing out without a deal (the default if parliament can't agree anything else), agreeing the withdrawal deal, or revoking Article 50. That's it, there are no other options, although we could perhaps delay things a bit and then decide between these options in another referendum. And if we agree the current deal, this or another government can adjust the final trade relationship over the next couple of years.Jonathan said:Her Plan B in a few days is going to be quite a moment. All ready cringing at that the very thought of it. Nothing has changed.
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He seems to have been right on that!Sean_F said:
Since Burke was opposed to 95% of the population having any say in government, why would anyone treat his words as Gospel?dots said:
You fight fire by taking what it breathes away. This crisis is fuelled by brexit still defined in an infinite number of ways, running at odds with a referendum result which defined it as just one thing. What makes this situation feel like gridlock is people use the word democracy as though democracy is just one thing too, “must honour the democratic mandate” “the credibility of democracy is at stake”. Democracy is not just one thing, there are different forms of it, different as chalk and cheese, the words of Burke on strength of representative democracy versus what voters say on voxpop about their instruction to representatives via the ref result. switch from representative to direct needs strong understanding what to do with direct result in what is still representative system. Where is the evidence this is understood, clarified and mitigated?The_Taxman said:
An interesting post.dots said:Wot now? I say look at how we got here. To be fair to May, Cammo’s policy this will be settled once and for all with remain/leave referendum looks worst decision ever in British politics, putting out a fire by pouring petrol all over it. And some people think it’s good idea to have another one, the fire can be put out by adding even more petrol?
Whether what is Brexit is clear or not, what is role of parliament in delivering ref result? should parliament have a meaningful say, especially to fill in variances where voters were only asked to provide one dimensional answer to multifaceted outcome? We traditionally have representative democracy, a conviction it helps us achieve strong outcomes, strong as in consensual, strong as in delivering results. Let’s remind ourselves what representative democracy is. Edmund Burke (who some call Father of Conservatism): Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
I think the basic problem is only a small part of the population understand the issue and the complexities arising from Brexit. People, particularly vocal Leave supporting individuals seem to think the decision and method of Leaving has little consequence for Government, Parliament, Business and individuals. It is one of the paradox'sgers and others are part of project fear and it will all be alright. David Cameron did make a very poor judgement in calling that referendum but the current PM has built on the foundation of his misjudgement and poured petrol on the mess that could engulf us all. Maybe fighting fire with fire is the only way out via a second referendum?0 -
Yes, Nicola is very likeable - the most capable of all the party leaders.FF43 said:
I like Nicola Sturgeon now she has shaken off Alex Salmond's influence. He is an aggressive individual and she was picking up bad behaviour from him.williamglenn said:
Sturgeon does human too.FF43 said:On the basis of that I'm voting Corbyn. He might be useless and dishonest, but at least be comes across as human.
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Unless they are on lifesaving Meds..or their elders are.....or they have pension pots, or capital invested in any kind of UK assetsSean_F said:
Most MP's think that a No Deal Brexit will be good for them.kle4 said:
The biggest mistake we are making is believing they are genuine about thinking it a disaster. The actions of MPs do not bear that out. They clearly think it will be bad. But not so bad they need to compromise to a deal, or referendum, or whatever. Not yet anyway.Black_Rook said:Because, if they genuinely believe No Deal to be an unthinkable disaster then, given that they have the means to prevent it, how can they - simply for want of the ability to agree a common plan - fail to do so and emerge with one shred of credibility left? ..
I cannot quite believe how a traditionally liberal pro business based party could quite so easily take to a policy that will destroy wealth and lives....Brexit, an ideology based on hatred. Discuss.
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What about a reality show where you swap leaders for a week? 🙃Richard_Nabavi said:
Tell you what, maybe we could do a deal? You get rid, so do we.Jonathan said:Seriously Tories, you need to get rid. We’re going nowhere with May.
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"Increasingly clear"
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/10856633581062594570 -
The judgement of the 5% is no better than the 95%.Richard_Nabavi said:
He seems to have been right on that!Sean_F said:
Since Burke was opposed to 95% of the population having any say in government, why would anyone treat his words as Gospel?dots said:
You fight fire by taking what it breathes away. This crisis is fuelled by brexit still defined in an infinite number of ways, running at odds with a referendum result which defined it as just one thing. What makes this situation feel like gridlock is people use the word democracy as though democracy is just one thing too, “must honour the democratic mandate” “the credibility of democracy is at stake”. Democracy is not just one thing, there are different forms of it, different as chalk and cheese, the words of Burke on strength of representative democracy versus what voters say on voxpop about their instruction to representatives via the ref result. switch from representative to direct needs strong understanding what to do with direct result in what is still representative system. Where is the evidence this is understood, clarified and mitigated?The_Taxman said:
An interesting post.dots said:Wot now? I say look at how we got here. To be fair to May, Cammo’s policy this will be settled once and for all with remain/leave referendum looks worst decision ever in British politics, putting out a fire by pouring petrol all over it. And some people think it’s good idea to have another one, the fire can be put out by adding even more petrol?
Whether what is Brexit is clear or not, what is role of parliament in delivering ref result? should parliament have a meaningful say, especially to fill in variances where voters were only asked to provide one dimensional answer to multifaceted outcome? We traditionally have representative democracy, a conviction it helps us achieve strong outcomes, strong as in consensual, strong as inu, not his industry only, but his judgment; he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
I think the basic problem is only a small part of the population understand the issue and the complexities arising from Brexit. People, particularly vocal Leave supporting individuals seem to think the decision and method of Leaving has little consequence for Government, Parliament, Business and individuals. It is one of the paradox'sgers and others are part of project fear and it will all be alright. David Cameron did make a very poor judgement in calling that referendum but the current PM has built on the foundation of his misjudgement and poured petrol on the mess that could engulf us all. Maybe fighting fire with fire is the only way out via a second referendum?0 -
The suggestion was whether MPs believe it will be good for them, politically (I assume), not whether it actually would be good for them. Many who claim to hate no deal would politically gain from it.tyson said:
Unless they are on lifesaving Meds..or their elders are.....or they have pension pots, or capital invested in any kind of UK assetsSean_F said:
Most MP's think that a No Deal Brexit will be good for them.kle4 said:
The biggest mistake we are making is believing they are genuine about thinking it a disaster. The actions of MPs do not bear that out. They clearly think it will be bad. But not so bad they need to compromise to a deal, or referendum, or whatever. Not yet anyway.Black_Rook said:Because, if they genuinely believe No Deal to be an unthinkable disaster then, given that they have the means to prevent it, how can they - simply for want of the ability to agree a common plan - fail to do so and emerge with one shred of credibility left? ..
I cannot quite believe how a traditionally liberal pro business based party could quite so easily take to a policy that will destroy wealth and lives....Brexit, an ideology based on hatred. Discuss.0 -
Interesting, thank youMyBurningEars said:
Not quite what you're looking for, I suspect, but a personal favourite Game Theory result of mine...viewcode said:
Possible explanations:Black_Rook said:...if they genuinely believe No Deal to be an unthinkable disaster then, given that they have the means to prevent it, how can they - simply for want of the ability to agree a common plan - fail to do so...
* Isn't there some kind of weird game theory thing that predicts this: a bad outcome because nobody can agree on the good?
* Some MPs actually want the chaos
* Some MPs are too stupid to understand the implications
* Some MPs are sufficiently wealthy to be insulated from the bad effects and have insufficient incentive to avoid them.
Burning money in opera vs football
You can get better results if you are genuinely able to commit to self-harm, even if you don't end up using that option.0 -
Likeable? Well, chacun à son gon goût and all that, but I must say that's not a word which I would use of her. Effective, talented, capable, yes, but not likeable.Anazina said:
Yes, Nicola is very likeable - the most capable of all the party leaders.FF43 said:
I like Nicola Sturgeon now she has shaken off Alex Salmond's influence. He is an aggressive individual and she was picking up bad behaviour from him.williamglenn said:
Sturgeon does human too.FF43 said:On the basis of that I'm voting Corbyn. He might be useless and dishonest, but at least be comes across as human.
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'increasingly' is really working hard in that sentence, given the byline of the paper.williamglenn said:"Increasingly clear"
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/10856633581062594570 -
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Government has been telling business there won't be a no deal exit from the very start. And quite rightly so. What they have promised they will have to deliver, one way or another.0
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Thanks to your recommendation I took a read. Half of it saying the people that do the stuff day and day out like the Road Haulage Association are wrong about their own processes. Half of it straw men. Paint a picture of lurid catastrophe. Not going to happen, so it's all going to be fineLuckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
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The last 24 hours? Let's extend that a bit.Scott_P said:0 -
Whether you like the Speaker or not...you have to admit he's very fucking good at the whole theatrics of the show. Not quite up to that Yank who does the boxing pre announcements- but Bercow's Parliamentary antics are class...0
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When MPs triggered article 50...................
What on earth were they expecting ?0 -
They will print any old crap that makes a hard Brexit sound good. That piece they published about the faults of May's deal turned out to contain huge dollops of fake news.FF43 said:
Thanks to your recommendation I took a read. Half of it saying the people that do the stuff day and day out like the Road Haulage Association are wrong about their own processes. Half of it straw men. Paint a picture of lurid catastrophe. Not going to happen, so it's all going to be fineLuckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
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Let’s get ready to (censored)*. That guy?tyson said:Whether you like the Speaker or not...you have to admit he's very fucking good at the whole theatrics of the show. Not quite up to that Yank who does the boxing pre announcements- but Bercow's Parliamentary antics are class...
* as OGH would get a big bill...0 -
More violence I know but to put things in a historical prospective https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/10856682566549995530
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Something better than this. Which is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is pretending that it is unfair they are now faced with the prospect they agreed to set in motion should things not go well.Pulpstar said:When MPs triggered article 50...................
What on earth were they expecting ?0 -
So 'lurid catastrophe' is a straw man is it? That's quite an admission.FF43 said:
Thanks to your recommendation I took a read. Half of it saying the people that do the stuff day and day out like the Road Haulage Association are wrong about their own processes. Half of it straw men. Paint a picture of lurid catastrophe. Not going to happen, so it's all going to be fineLuckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
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An independent Scotland would yield a Tory majority of 17 for rUK. When you add in 10 DUP and North Down, Corbyn's path to Government becomes way more difficult.kle4 said:
'increasingly' is really working hard in that sentence, given the byline of the paper.williamglenn said:"Increasingly clear"
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/10856633581062594570 -
Peter Lilley had quite a good argument that No Deal wouldn't be as bad as expected.FF43 said:
Thanks to your recommendation I took a read. Half of it saying the people that do the stuff day and day out like the Road Haulage Association are wrong about their own processes. Half of it straw men. Paint a picture of lurid catastrophe. Not going to happen, so it's all going to be fineLuckyguy1983 said:Good piece in The Spectator about the realities of 'no deal' Brexit.
He said the Millennium Bug wasn't as bad as expected.0 -
The Telegraph transcript of the telephone between Hammond, Clark and Barclay and some business association leaders, consultants et al is perfectly clear. There is no plan B. All May is going to do is push her plan. Hammond consistently says that the plans to take no deal of the table is a backbench initiative and that the Govt will not take it off the table because it reduces their leverage in both the HoC and the EU.
Edit: In the interests of clarity the Telegraph has no confirmed that their were more businesses on the call than they quoted and listed in their initial article.0
