I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
What did Australia do to deserve that?
Like the original Golgafrinchams, the Hard Brexiteers never reach Australia. Nor do the rest of us leave the UK. That oversexed overhaired underbrained wazzock Johnson saying he knows more about building cars than the boss of Jaguar. It really is Trump level politics. "I think we should do this and everything will be fine" "no here are precise details as to why it won't based on years of professional experience" "WRONG. Sad. Fake News"
Why do we need to listen to the boss of JLR giving 20 years of expert advice about Brexit and car making? What does he know that Brian the angry Brexiteer backed by 20 years of reading the Daily Mail cant tell us better? What next? Cornwall who rely on EU monies voting to leave deciding to appoint a Cornish ambassador to the EU to go begging for the continuation of the monies Cornish voters insisted didn't exist?
Because these erses like JLR boss have lied and filled their own pockets for years and years, so now when they cry wolf most people just assume they are just lying again and getting an extra pocket in their suits.
You may like to point me to the cars that you build...
To think we could have done this one month ago. May did us such a disservice by delaying.
No question. Given the Sun is basically suggesting once the deal is voted down perhaps more concessions might come (not that I believe that), it only emphasises that the only thing it seemed designed to accomplish was to prevent a leadership challenge which they seemed to think would come once the MV was lost. And it provoked it anyway. May lost a lot of the respect she still retained that day.
Indications are she has not lost respect from the public.
Indeed, I belive she is one of the reasons the party has held up in the polling
I meant my respect. I still have some, but that decision was pointless, self defeating in an attempt to be self preserving, and undermined all those loyal MPs who had parroted her line for weaks that there would be no changes, could be no changes.
To think we could have done this one month ago. May did us such a disservice by delaying.
No question. Given the Sun is basically suggesting once the deal is voted down perhaps more concessions might come (not that I believe that), it only emphasises that the only thing it seemed designed to accomplish was to prevent a leadership challenge which they seemed to think would come once the MV was lost. And it provoked it anyway. May lost a lot of the respect she still retained that day.
Indications are she has not lost respect from the public.
Indeed, I believe she is one of the reasons the party has held up in the polling
This is getting silly. A second referendum for the losers' options without a Leave option?
A second referendum with a leave with the negotiated deal vs leave with no-deal makes some sort of sense.
Mr B2,
"To force through such a major traumatic change, a second confirmatory vote is entirely reasonable."
Joining was not a major traumatic change then? A second vote needed to confirm? News to me and nearly everyone else. I think that's called changing the rules after the result is known. Do you honestly believe any sentient being thinks that's logical?
I believe I am a sentient being.
We programmed you to think that. Now tell me about the dream you had with the baby spiders...
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
Unfortunately, that is the lesson to be learned, and that is why it's so dangerous. 'All that matters is winning' might make the winner feel good, but pretending it's a form of democracy is embarrassing.
Come clean, some of the losers can't take it, and to them, that's all that matters.
If the result went the other way, Remain would not be the losers.
I take your point that referendums are intrinsically severely flawed and should have no real place in our constitution.
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions?
Yes, that the EU is not prepared to walk away because it would take a hit from it. Which completely ignores that the people suggesting it are the ones most keen on us saying we'll walk away and be willing to take a hit from it.
I'm beginning to think May just gets a bit overexcited when Merkel, in sympathy, says something like 'I'll see what I can do' on the other end of the phone.
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
We have no idea who is spinning what but it is clear a big defeat tomorrow will focus minds in Brussels and Ireland. Just a few weeks from a default no deal will be chaos for them and will devastate Ireland
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
We have no idea who is spinning what but it is clear a big defeat tomorrow will focus minds in Brussels and Ireland. Just a few weeks from a default no deal will be chaos for them and will devastate Ireland
It will only concentrate minds in Brexit's favour, potentially, if no deal is taken on as government policy. Given the resignations lined up for that, and that the Commons have demonstrated it will act to stymie preparations for it, it is not enough to float any old possibility as though all are of equal chance.
As for who is spinning I think the ancient question of cui bono exists for a reason.
I have read about the best solution to the problem. A terrible disaster is going to befall the United Kingdom and we all need to leave for Australia. Two very large ark ships are to be built (in Poland) to accommodate us on the voyage, but as we all hate each other so much people need to be split up. Supporters of Hard Brexit please board Ark B (for Brexit). Everyone else will follow on ark A
What did Australia do to deserve that?
Like the original Golgafrinchams, the Hard Brexiteers never reach Australia. Nor do the rest of us leave the UK. That oversexed overhaired underbrained wazzock Johnson saying he knows more about building cars than the boss of Jaguar. It really is Trump level politics. "I think we should do this and everything will be fine" "no here are precise details as to why it won't based on years of professional experience" "WRONG. Sad. Fake News"
Why do we need to listen to the boss of JLR giving 20 years of expert advice about Brexit and car making? What does he know that Brian the angry Brexiteer backed by 20 years of reading the Daily Mail cant tell us better? What next? Cornwall who rely on EU monies voting to leave deciding to appoint a Cornish ambassador to the EU to go begging for the continuation of the monies Cornish voters insisted didn't exist?
Said “EU monies” being a percentage of the money the U.K. sends to them.
Oh sure. But the Cornish have twigged that instead of receiving money via the EU they will instead get dick all from the UK government.
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
We have no idea who is spinning what but it is clear a big defeat tomorrow will focus minds in Brussels and Ireland. Just a few weeks from a default no deal will be chaos for them and will devastate Ireland
Why would it devastate Ireland? We're not planning to impose tariffs upon their exports to us? I assume they'll hold off imposing a hard border, and they can route traffic to Europe via the Cork ferries to cover delays. Am I missing something?
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions?
Yes, that the EU is not prepared to walk away because it would take a hit from it. Which completely ignores that the people suggesting it are the ones most keen on us saying we'll walk away and be willing to take a hit from it.
I'm beginning to think May just gets a bit overexcited when Merkel, in sympathy, says something like 'I'll see what I can do' on the other end of the phone.
But the ' Mutti will save us ' thing predates the Referendum. It was a key strategy in Cameron's renegotiation. As an Uber Remainer it amuses me how much of ' Taking back control ' involves pleading with the Bundeskanzlerin for concessions but then so much Tory euroscepticism is on the BDSM scale. But what fascinates me is such an obviously failed strategy just keeps soldiering on no matter how many times it fails.
In the deal v Remain vote, how will those leavers who believe it the most actually campaign? Throwing themselves behind the deal might be a tad difficult given the smoke from all the burning bridges.
Bless. You think the contents of the deal will actually matter during a referendum campaign. Leave will run on people vs politicians. That’s all they need to do. It may not be enough, but anything else would be a distraction.
Yeah, it's not even about the EU and Brexit anymore really. It's about who has control. The Establishment or The People.
And there`s the rub... It is the Establishment (ie top Tory politicians) who have taken over the management of the People side..... They get everywhere. You can vote against them, but then you are voting for them - a different set of them, of course.
Yes, I remember Leave banner ads on this very site going on about the 'posh boys' i.e. Cameron and Osbourne. This time the 'posh boys' are Johnson and Rees Mogg.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around. And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.
It would not go away.
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.
The people against the powerful.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.
Lol. When was the last time that the turnout in any vote actually mattered, in terms of the result? You need to take a step back and look at some of the nonsense you post.
We will make it matter. Like I said, you might win that particular battle but you will lose the war. Why? Because will never give up. You Remoaners will have taught us a very important lesson over the past two years. Democracy no longer matters. What matters is keeping the pressure on and taking every opportunity to undermine and destroy your enemies. In the end you will wish you had lost
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
This is getting silly. A second referendum for the losers' options without a Leave option?
A second referendum with a leave with the negotiated deal vs leave with no-deal makes some sort of sense.
Mr B2,
"To force through such a major traumatic change, a second confirmatory vote is entirely reasonable."
Joining was not a major traumatic change then? A second vote needed to confirm? News to me and nearly everyone else. I think that's called changing the rules after the result is known. Do you honestly believe any sentient being thinks that's logical?
+1 CD13. As ever back to Maastricht and the creation of the EU.
And there Mr B2 we can agree. Get Maastricht confirmed by a referendum - by two votes under your reasonable rule. Indeed, have a minimum turnout and a four nation lock if you like. Any Europhiles interested? They weren’t then.
In the deal v Remain vote, how will those leavers who believe it the most actually campaign? Throwing themselves behind the deal might be a tad difficult given the smoke from all the burning bridges.
Bless. You think the contents of the deal will actually matter during a referendum campaign. Leave will run on people vs politicians. That’s all they need to do. It may not be enough, but anything else would be a distraction.
Yeah, it's not even about the EU and Brexit anymore really. It's about who has control. The Establishment or The People.
And there`s the rub... It is the Establishment (ie top Tory politicians) who have taken over the management of the People side..... They get everywhere. You can vote against them, but then you are voting for them - a different set of them, of course.
Yes, I remember Leave banner ads on this very site going on about the 'posh boys' i.e. Cameron and Osbourne. This time the 'posh boys' are Johnson and Rees Mogg.
If those two believe what they say they should be backing remain in a referendum rather than vassalage.
Despite this guy being a total git (and I am being very polite), I am not sure what he is supposed to do different? Is he supposed to never sell his portfolio?
TBH, I am surprised that nobody is wanting to buy these at least parts of his portfolio of properties off him as a going concern with current tenants, as clearly they are nice little earner.
One of the most underanalysed aspects of Brexit is what happens when we revert to a normal US administration. If we think the Irish issue us tough niw with just the EU behind them wait till the Irish-American lobby reasserts itself via a traditional State Departnent.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
Well there can be a royal commission to come up with options and then a further referendum in due course for people to decide what they want to replace the HOL with.
But the first step is to get rid of their Lordship's in principle.
Actually, I think Gene Wilder explained hard Brexiteers best, the people who insist that if May's deal passes and we leave the EU that we haven't left the EU:
"You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
We have no idea who is spinning what but it is clear a big defeat tomorrow will focus minds in Brussels and Ireland. Just a few weeks from a default no deal will be chaos for them and will devastate Ireland
"Focus minds" is fast becoming one of my least favourite entries in the politico lexicon.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
Well I'm not a fan of the term brainwashing, but I think you do capture a major problem in that large numbers simply won't accept any leave but X type of leave, or at least not Y type of leave. So the argument does not truly focus on whether this is a good enough leave (although that is part of it), but on if it is leaving at all. And we know that to be true since that is the thrust of the whole vassalage criticism, that it is not enough to say the deal is a bad brexit, it must be equated to no brexit.
I don't see a way out for that. The people who can find a way out, the MPs, are the ones least likely to do so - even on the other side of things they want the public to find a way out for them.
Actually, I think Gene Wilder explained hard Brexiteers best, the people who insist that if May's deal passes and we leave the EU that we haven't left the EU:
"You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.
Is there a single hypothesis in the whole Brexit debate that has been more completely falsified than the belief Angela Merkel will save the British government with last minute concessions ? If that's the line the Downing St bunker is pushing as it's prebuttal of defeat then God help us.
We have no idea who is spinning what but it is clear a big defeat tomorrow will focus minds in Brussels and Ireland. Just a few weeks from a default no deal will be chaos for them and will devastate Ireland
Why would it devastate Ireland? We're not planning to impose tariffs upon their exports to us? I assume they'll hold off imposing a hard border, and they can route traffic to Europe via the Cork ferries to cover delays. Am I missing something?
You do know that 85% of Irish freight passes through British ports, of which 60% is for Britain
One of the most underanalysed aspects of Brexit is what happens when we revert to a normal US administration. If we think the Irish issue us tough niw with just the EU behind them wait till the Irish-American lobby reasserts itself via a traditional State Departnent.
Any US-UK trade deal has to get through Congress. It just won’t happen. The Irish-American lobby is immensely powerful - particularly in the Democrats.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
The same could be said for Brexit.
In fact, I did. Too many times.
It's a fair point. I rather naiively assumed both parties would come up with clear ideas before A50 was triggered, then after a lot of sound and fury those things would merge together into something no one loved but which broadly worked, and would take enough years that it was not a mere reactionary measure. I was truly very wrong.
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDbRxH9Kiy4 h ttp://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/07/31/the-referendums-of-1975-and-2016-illustrate-the-continuity-and-change-in-british-euroscepticism/
A good, if somewhat depressing, read/watch, thank you.
I normally have music on when I work, and coincidentally I had Hans Zimmer's "Time" on in the background when I was looking at them. It did not help...
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
As we are constantly (and quite rightly) reminded the number of votes involved one way or another are small. even if remain wins they will still be facing close to 50% of the electorate who think they have been cheated. And there will be plenty of us right there to stir things up and point out every single failing and every single problem that develops because of Remaining in. And of course every other problem which might not be anything to do with EU membership but which we will make sure is pinned on you.
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
Actually, I think Gene Wilder explained hard Brexiteers best, the people who insist that if May's deal passes and we leave the EU that we haven't left the EU:
"You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.
"This is a bad deal and let's get the brexit people voted for".
Ok. How? Bear in mind yelling at the EU to give us a new deal which benefits us more than them in 2 months might, just possibly, run into some stumbling blocks.
I don't mean to be funny....He is Britain's (Scotlands) greatest ever tennis player, and yes once at a press conference he put a reporter being a sexist in their place, but a role model for us all ON the court.
You really want your kids screaming and shouting obscenities after ever point and generally been pretty bad tempered. And press conferences, he is famously Mr Dull before quickly disappearing away from the cameras.
Without taking away that he has done incredibly well and works his knackers off, and absolutely deserves lots of praise for his achievements, but he isn't bloody Roger Federer, who is the GOAT mixed with the ability to show absolute class on and off the court in about 27 different languages year after year after year.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
Well that seems obvious, but begs the question what another leader will accomplish pursuing the same policy, and if not the same policy what option they, as loyal cabinet ministers, were previously opposed to and telling other people to oppose, they now expect total loyalty on?
"To force through such a major traumatic change, a second confirmatory vote is entirely reasonable."
Joining was not a major traumatic change then? A second vote needed to confirm? News to me and nearly everyone else. I think that's called changing the rules after the result is known. Do you honestly believe any sentient being thinks that's logical?
The Join referendum was indeed done once the terms were known, since at that point Britain had already joined. Referendums on things that 1) won't be clear until subsequently negotiated 2) aren't supported by the government that will implement them ... are very unusual, and for good reason.
A referendum on Remain vs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ was David Cameron's constitutional innovation, done for purely internal political reasons, and I don't see why subsequent parliaments should be bound by Cameron's obviously terrible idea, particularly given Cameron himself instantly broke his promise to stick around and see it through.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
Hm That could keep the clock ticking a few more weeks to 29th March.
Perfect, just what we need!
Yes, That's good news. The 2nd Referendum amendment may fail tomorrow as Labour holds back, but after her deal is defeated, it's good if she presents her deal again so the 2nd referendum amendment can be added and passed as the last hope of avoiding a crash out.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
The term is a bit too clever by half but some people have argued the West has entertered an age of " negative soveriegnty " where by deep sociological forces mean electorates can only forge majorities against things. It's just the logical conclusion of the atomisation/post-modernity theories applied to government. But it fits what's happening to Brexit with the majority against the status quo that destroyed our EU membership now destroying any particular type of Brexit. You can see it with the Yellow Vests as well. The ultimately empty symbol onto which everything can be projected.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
Perhaps it was just put together by a bad graphic designer.
So you want how many flags around the edge? You know what, I'll just put as many as can fit.
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
As we are constantly (and quite rightly) reminded the number of votes involved one way or another are small. even if remain wins they will still be facing close to 50% of the electorate who think they have been cheated. And there will be plenty of us right there to stir things up and point out every single failing and every single problem that develops because of Remaining in. And of course every other problem which might not be anything to do with EU membership but which we will make sure is pinned on you.
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
If it happens, and I don't very much expect it will, I will have to live with it. This has nothing to do with Remainers. They continue to want to stay in the EU. It will be because Leavers have changed their minds. I don't think the continuing Leavers have a special right to grievance and I don't particularly like threats.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
Russia was already gone by the time the war ended so that might be why they are not included. Still not clear what the red white and black flag is though?
Hm That could keep the clock ticking a few more weeks to 29th March.
Perfect, just what we need!
Yes, That's good news. The 2nd Referendum amendment may fail tomorrow as Labour holds back, but after her deal is defeated, it's good if she presents her deal again so the 2nd referendum amendment can be added and passed as the last hope of avoiding a crash out.
Agreed. We seem to be arriving at a consensus on this with Benpointer
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
I rather think his point was about the influence he had on the consideration of the debate issues prior to going, which still impact us.
No wrong think allowed....No wrong think even allowed to be debated...
Officials said the survey by students at Warwick University was ‘highly inappropriate’ because gender issues were ‘not up for debate’.
The poll was set up by the university’s Politics, Philosophy and Law (PPL) society on its official Facebook page. It asked whether students thought there were just two genders, or whether there was a ‘spectrum’.
But the students’ union, which oversees all societies, forced the group to delete it and claimed the topic should not be debated because gender fluidity is a ‘scientific fact’.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
Russia was already gone by the time the war ended so that might be why they are not included. Still not clear what the red white and black flag is though?
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
As we are constantly (and quite rightly) reminded the number of votes involved one way or another are small. even if remain wins they will still be facing close to 50% of the electorate who think they have been cheated. And there will be plenty of us right there to stir things up and point out every single failing and every single problem that develops because of Remaining in. And of course every other problem which might not be anything to do with EU membership but which we will make sure is pinned on you.
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
If it happens, and I don't very much expect it will, I will have to live with it. This has nothing to do with Remainers. They continue to want to stay in the EU. It will be because Leavers have changed their minds. I don't think the continuing Leavers have a special right to grievance and I don't particularly like threats.
Tough. It is you Remainers tat will have brought this about and you will be held responsible for the consequences.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
The same could be said for Brexit.
In fact, I did. Too many times.
It's a fair point. I rather naiively assumed both parties would come up with clear ideas before A50 was triggered, then after a lot of sound and fury those things would merge together into something no one loved but which broadly worked, and would take enough years that it was not a mere reactionary measure. I was truly very wrong.
We are where we are, I guess. Unlike you, I expect Brexiteer's to go ahead. Something will have to be worked out.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
The same could be said for Brexit.
In fact, I did. Too many times.
It's a fair point. I rather naiively assumed both parties would come up with clear ideas before A50 was triggered, then after a lot of sound and fury those things would merge together into something no one loved but which broadly worked, and would take enough years that it was not a mere reactionary measure. I was truly very wrong.
We are where we are, I guess. Unlike you, I expect Brexiteer's to go ahead. Something will have to be worked out.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
I think the argument is that the damage was done before he left.... Nothing will be good enough for your average Brexitter unless Boris and Nigel proclaim its the perfect deal while riding sparkly unicorns down Whitehall....
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
As we are constantly (and quite rightly) reminded the number of votes involved one way or another are small. even if remain wins they will still be facing close to 50% of the electorate who think they have been cheated. And there will be plenty of us right there to stir things up and point out every single failing and every single problem that develops because of Remaining in. And of course every other problem which might not be anything to do with EU membership but which we will make sure is pinned on you.
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
It won't be 50% who think they were cheated, it'll be 20% who think they lost, and 30% who think they were cheated. But the 30% will also think they're being cheated if parliament goes ahead with the Withdrawal Agreement, or if the country exits with No Deal then subsequently makes some other, more minimal deal. Everything is a traitrous betrayal to these people, so there's no point in pandering to them.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
Which is exactly my point. Greig can say what he likes, Dacre has already persuaded "the common clay of the new west/morons" that leaving isn't leaving.
You say if we don't leave there will be Consternation and Uproar. And that's true. But if this deal passes there will be the very same Consternation and Uproar from the same morons. When we did a Brexit street stall before Christmas the people who were the most against the May deal were Brexit supporters. Because the May deal isn't Brexit apparently.
We cannot satisfy morons whatever we do. Let them rant.
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
As we are constantly (and quite rightly) reminded the number of votes involved one way or another are small. even if remain wins they will still be facing close to 50% of the electorate who think they have been cheated. And there will be plenty of us right there to stir things up and point out every single failing and every single problem that develops because of Remaining in. And of course every other problem which might not be anything to do with EU membership but which we will make sure is pinned on you.
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
It’s going to happen either way. The referendum has split the country in multiple ways. It’s hard to see how it will be put back together again.
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
The same could be said for Brexit.
In fact, I did. Too many times.
It's a fair point. I rather naiively assumed both parties would come up with clear ideas before A50 was triggered, then after a lot of sound and fury those things would merge together into something no one loved but which broadly worked, and would take enough years that it was not a mere reactionary measure. I was truly very wrong.
We are where we are, I guess. Unlike you, I expect Brexiteer's to go ahead. Something will have to be worked out.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
Russia was already gone by the time the war ended so that might be why they are not included. Still not clear what the red white and black flag is though?
Yes indeed. Around the rim I think there is the Russian flag at the bottom upside down (it should be white, red, blue horizontal, with white uppermost), and also the Belgian (black, yellow, red, vertically). But like you I'm puzzled by the black,white,red on the left of the main picture, and also by some of the other flags on the rim (what's the red square in a yellow outline at around 7 or 8 o'clock?)
Whichever way Brexit plays out in the end we need something to bring the country back together again. Something to which everyone can unite around And a referendum on abolition of HOL is just that very thing.
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
Abolishment without an idea of what we should replace it with, if anything, as a reactionary measure to short term frustrations, is unlikely to lead to a positive outcome.
The same could be said for Brexit.
In fact, I did. Too many times.
It's a fair point. I rather naiively assumed both parties would come up with clear ideas before A50 was triggered, then after a lot of sound and fury those things would merge together into something no one loved but which broadly worked, and would take enough years that it was not a mere reactionary measure. I was truly very wrong.
We are where we are, I guess. Unlike you, I expect Brexiteer's to go ahead. Something will have to be worked out.
Something will have to be worked out.
I can but salute you sir for your understatement!
A Japanese Emperor would be proud
The situation has developed not necessarily to Brexit’s advantage...
79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.
It would not go away.
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.
The people against the powerful.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.
Why would remain see a significant decrease? Few have switched as we continually hear, and this is the last best hope they have.
Because there are many who voted remain reluctantly last time who are turned off by being asked to vote again. There was really very little great enthusiasm for the EU in the last vote. That will be even less if it happens again.
There were a lot of Tories who voted remain last time out as a result of loyalty to Cameron and Osborne along with the Tory establishment. Remainers are a handful of eccentrics in the Tory party these days and Mays successor will be campaigning for the revised deal. I think remainers are wildly over confident about the result.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
Which is exactly my point. Greig can say what he likes, Dacre has already persuaded "the common clay of the new west/morons" that leaving isn't leaving.
You say if we don't leave there will be Consternation and Uproar. And that's true. But if this deal passes there will be the very same Consternation and Uproar from the same morons. When we did a Brexit street stall before Christmas the people who were the most against the May deal were Brexit supporters. Because the May deal isn't Brexit apparently.
We cannot satisfy morons whatever we do. Let them rant.
The final FTA will look a lot like the WA, not least because the same factors would apply in the next 21 months, were the Deal to pass.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Montenegro or Mongolia are the only two that I could find with a red background and yellow border.
79% chance that we won’t leave the EU at all I would have thought.
Not quite I think. I'm very confident, unfortunately, that Remain would win any referendum but it is at least possible, say, deal would win, so while referendum or other options mean a delay past March is very likely, it is not quite as likely that we do not leave at all.
Despite all the superficially persuasive slogans that have been offered for the Leave (the sequel) campaign, Remain has the absolute killer line - You can have years and years more of all this arguing and chaos of Brexit, or it can all simply go away: you choose.
It would not go away.
Not wholly,no, but it is a superficially good line.
The people against the powerful.
You told them once. Tell them again.
They weren't listening then. They're still not listening now.
Remind them who they work for.
They have nothing but contempt for you. This is your chance to tell them what you think of them.
And so on. And so forth. Forever.
Might help get out the Leave vote, but will convert no one and will fail unless it turns out nearly all the survivors of the 17.4 million voters. I cannot see it myself.
That assumes that Remain would get anywhere near the support they got last time. They would not. Both sides would see a significant decrease in their turnout - which in itself would hugely undermine the legitimacy of the vote.
Lol. When was the last time that the turnout in any vote actually mattered, in terms of the result? You need to take a step back and look at some of the nonsense you post.
We will make it matter. Like I said, you might win that particular battle but you will lose the war. Why? Because will never give up. You Remoaners will have taught us a very important lesson over the past two years. Democracy no longer matters. What matters is keeping the pressure on and taking every opportunity to undermine and destroy your enemies. In the end you will wish you had lost
If Remain win a second referendum, it will be because Leavers have changed their minds. By definition.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
It doesn't necessarily mean that, it could be the result of a much lower turnout.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!
60 % of the youngest voters supported Remain in 1975. 36% of those same voters did in 2016. Case closed.
It's always fascinating imagining what the huge percentage of 18-29 year olds who didn't vote world have voted. By the time they are in their sixties every one of them is voting. Maybe the non voters back then were hugely eurosceptic.
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
Which is exactly my point. Greig can say what he likes, Dacre has already persuaded "the common clay of the new west/morons" that leaving isn't leaving.
You say if we don't leave there will be Consternation and Uproar. And that's true. But if this deal passes there will be the very same Consternation and Uproar from the same morons. When we did a Brexit street stall before Christmas the people who were the most against the May deal were Brexit supporters. Because the May deal isn't Brexit apparently.
We cannot satisfy morons whatever we do. Let them rant.
The final FTA will look a lot like the WA, not least because the same factors would apply in the next 21 months, were the Deal to pass.
So they might be right to be wary of that.
Will it? The main factor at play has been the EU's lack of ability to negotiate on the future trading relationship.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Montenegro or Mongolia are the only two that I could find with a red background and yellow border.
I don't think Mongolia existed as a country in 1900. I wondered if it was the flag of an anti-Boxer faction of the Qing dynasty, but I cannot find one that looks like that.
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Montenegro or Mongolia are the only two that I could find with a red background and yellow border.
I don't think Mongolia existed as a country in 1900. I wondered if it was the flag of an anti-Boxer faction of the Qing dynasty, but I cannot find one that looks like that.
Ah, Montenegro had a white border back in 1900, and you are right that the Mongolian flag was from 1911. The hunt continues...
And a Japanese one. Not sure what the bird is meant to represent.
Japan were on the Allied side (Or Entente as they were known) in WW1. I have an account of Japanese destroyers hunting down and sinking Turkish submarines in the Mediterranean.
During the Boxer Rebellion, the "allied" powers were Blighty, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, Russia, Austria and the USA. There is no Austria or Russia on the flags around the lion.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
I cannot identify the flag with the red square within a yellow flag on the rim.
Trying to find it on this wiki list of timelines of national flags, no luck so far!
I back the deal too, Daily Mail, but I think you might be overselling the positive impact it would have.
Their problem is simple - Dacre. The referendum question was put - should we leave the EU. May's deal delivers on the question put, yet millions of people out there have been convinced by the Daily Mail and others that the UK leaving the EU on 29th March would be the UK not leaving.
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
You might have missed it but Dacre isn't there anymore.
Which is exactly my point. Greig can say what he likes, Dacre has already persuaded "the common clay of the new west/morons" that leaving isn't leaving.
You say if we don't leave there will be Consternation and Uproar. And that's true. But if this deal passes there will be the very same Consternation and Uproar from the same morons. When we did a Brexit street stall before Christmas the people who were the most against the May deal were Brexit supporters. Because the May deal isn't Brexit apparently.
We cannot satisfy morons whatever we do. Let them rant.
The final FTA will look a lot like the WA, not least because the same factors would apply in the next 21 months, were the Deal to pass.
So they might be right to be wary of that.
Will it? The main factor at play has been the EU's lack of ability to negotiate on the future trading relationship.
The simplest way for the backstop to become a non issue, and for supply chains to stay intact is for the UK to have alignment in customs and regulations with the EU.
Meanwhile, on Mumsnet, a poster asks when people think that the airports will get busy in March with people deciding they're best off out of the country temporarily in case there is disruption on Brexit day and the immediate aftermath.
This would be a bit like Dunkirk in reverse then?
Would you like to buy a BYOB* ticket on Seabourne Ferries?
Comments
a) Angela Merkel’s confidantes, or
b) Theresa May’s confidantes
I know which one I think it is, and how much I believe them.
No accounting for taste.
See posts at 22.16 and 22.24:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-46867621
I take your point that referendums are intrinsically severely flawed and should have no real place in our constitution.
I'm beginning to think May just gets a bit overexcited when Merkel, in sympathy, says something like 'I'll see what I can do' on the other end of the phone.
As for who is spinning I think the ancient question of cui bono exists for a reason.
And not "oh shit oh shit oh shit" as she really ought to be
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/brianodwyer/irish-americans-will-not-accept-brexit-dividing-ireland
Do You Want To Abolish The Current House Of Lords?
YES
NO
Yes wins by 90%+
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
And there Mr B2 we can agree. Get Maastricht confirmed by a referendum - by two votes under your reasonable rule. Indeed, have a minimum turnout and a four nation lock if you like. Any Europhiles interested? They weren’t then.
TBH, I am surprised that nobody is wanting to buy these at least parts of his portfolio of properties off him as a going concern with current tenants, as clearly they are nice little earner.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jan/14/familes-facing-homelessness-after-tycoon-issues-eviction-notices
And this is why the whole concept of Brexit is fucked, which is why the practicalities in delivering it are weapons grade fucked. I read from contributors on here and elsewhere than if Brexit is cancelled that there will be an uprising of angry people. But alternately if Brexit goes ahead there will be the same uprising of the same angry people who have been brainwashed by Dacre et al that Brexit isn't Brexit, leaving isn't leaving, not being a member is being a member.
But the first step is to get rid of their Lordship's in principle.
"You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.
You know… morons"
'Afghan Justin Trudeau' finds fame on TV talent show
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46862510
In fact, I did. Too many times.
I don't see a way out for that. The people who can find a way out, the MPs, are the ones least likely to do so - even on the other side of things they want the public to find a way out for them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/14/theresa-may-will-asked-stand-suffers-heavy-defeat-brexit-vote/
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDbRxH9Kiy4
h ttp://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/07/31/the-referendums-of-1975-and-2016-illustrate-the-continuity-and-change-in-british-euroscepticism/
A good, if somewhat depressing, read/watch, thank you.
I normally have music on when I work, and coincidentally I had Hans Zimmer's "Time" on in the background when I was looking at them. It did not help...
Like I say you might win the battle but you will definitely lose the war.
Ok. How? Bear in mind yelling at the EU to give us a new deal which benefits us more than them in 2 months might, just possibly, run into some stumbling blocks.
Andy Murray: more than a champion?
He’s a role model for us all, on and off the tennis court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06y2gc2
I don't mean to be funny....He is Britain's (Scotlands) greatest ever tennis player, and yes once at a press conference he put a reporter being a sexist in their place, but a role model for us all ON the court.
You really want your kids screaming and shouting obscenities after ever point and generally been pretty bad tempered. And press conferences, he is famously Mr Dull before quickly disappearing away from the cameras.
Without taking away that he has done incredibly well and works his knackers off, and absolutely deserves lots of praise for his achievements, but he isn't bloody Roger Federer, who is the GOAT mixed with the ability to show absolute class on and off the court in about 27 different languages year after year after year.
1) won't be clear until subsequently negotiated
2) aren't supported by the government that will implement them
... are very unusual, and for good reason.
A referendum on Remain vs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ was David Cameron's constitutional innovation, done for purely internal political reasons, and I don't see why subsequent parliaments should be bound by Cameron's obviously terrible idea, particularly given Cameron himself instantly broke his promise to stick around and see it through.
And I'm trying to think what bird is supposed to represent the Chinese. I think it's the German Eagle
And then you have all the flags around the rim of the plate, including Russia, Serbia and Belgium.
So you want how many flags around the edge? You know what, I'll just put as many as can fit.
Officials said the survey by students at Warwick University was ‘highly inappropriate’ because gender issues were ‘not up for debate’.
The poll was set up by the university’s Politics, Philosophy and Law (PPL) society on its official Facebook page. It asked whether students thought there were just two genders, or whether there was a ‘spectrum’.
But the students’ union, which oversees all societies, forced the group to delete it and claimed the topic should not be debated because gender fluidity is a ‘scientific fact’.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6591657/Students-union-zealots-demand-poll-two-genders-taken-down.html
I can but salute you sir for your understatement!
You say if we don't leave there will be Consternation and Uproar. And that's true. But if this deal passes there will be the very same Consternation and Uproar from the same morons. When we did a Brexit street stall before Christmas the people who were the most against the May deal were Brexit supporters. Because the May deal isn't Brexit apparently.
We cannot satisfy morons whatever we do. Let them rant.
https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=21
https://twitter.com/JosephineCumbo/status/1084920673296961536
So they might be right to be wary of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_national_flags
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46838567
God this is even more OTT....
Yes he was briefly ranked #1, but nobody is going to look back and say he was better than the big three.
In comparison, Faldo, twice as many majors, world #1 for 2 years straight. Redgrave greatest ever Olympian, etc etc etc. All those listed against him are indisputably the world best at their peak, Murray has always been behind the big three by varying amounts.
https://fotw.info/flags/mn-early.html
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1084952943667937281
Good, frankly.