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Isn’t this because it’s a withdrawal agreement and they won’t negotiate until we have left?williamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/10681347255780352010 -
And the alternative to not having chicken is leaving the restaurant and going hungry of their own volition. Or something.CarlottaVance said:
On Peston one of the reporters explained it thus: "Ten friends go to a restaurant and they have to agree on what to eat. Five like beef, but not fish, the other five like fish but not beef. So they settle on Chicken, none of their favourites, but good enough."Andrew said:
Probably inevitably. Let's face it, the other two options are not exactly attractive, so the middle of the road was always going to draw some converts .... even if without any enthusiasm.Big_G_NorthWales said:That is a substantial move to TM. And I was ignored when I said she was cutting through
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Mogg, yes.ydoethur said:
Could have been worse. What Mogg and Corbyn are proposing is getting kicked out of the restaurant in a violent and disorderly fashion and being forced to eat pizza, outside, while cold, with extra pineapple.CarlottaVance said:
On Peston one of the reporters explained it thus: "Ten friends go to a restaurant and they have to agree on what to eat. Five like beef, but not fish, the other five like fish but not beef. So they settle on Chicken, none of their favourites, but good enough."Andrew said:
Probably inevitably. Let's face it, the other two options are not exactly attractive, so the middle of the road was always going to draw some converts .... even if without any enthusiasm.Big_G_NorthWales said:That is a substantial move to TM. And I was ignored when I said she was cutting through
Then they wonder why they are less popular than they feel they should be.
Jezza though, is saying: 'I don't like whatever you've chosen and would like something that's not on the menu but don't press me to tell you what it is'.
Meanwhile the restaurant's about to close btw.0 -
Yes, maybe (though I doubt it - and it needs some Labour votes too do not forget, since the DUP at the least are not on board). But if the vote happens and no deal is included, at least you accept that as a risk. Too many believe it impossible, or that the public would never vote for it. I don't think they would. But they might.Foxy said:
The #peoplesvote vote would only happen if May's deal is voted down.
I predict that it will pass though. Tory Brexiteers are chickens.0 -
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
"Jesus was a ‘somewhere’. Paul was an ‘anywhere’"
https://unherd.com/2018/08/jesus-somewhere-paul-anywhere/0 -
The client in my first big arbitration was called Randy Kruk.....ydoethur said:
Dear me. 'The American student is a Burke' just writes itself as a bullying line in the first week.rpjs said:
My wife's brother-in-law and his wife just had a baby boy. His first name is Burke.TheScreamingEagles said:
So he clearly won't be doing a year abroad in the UK when he goes to college then.
Edit - the local squire where I grew up had the unfortunate name of Robin Hoare.0 -
At worst, it buys us four years (including the extension) to sort out a proper exit, while getting rid of much of the problem stuff.Nemtynakht said:
Isn’t this because it’s a withdrawal agreement and they won’t negotiate until we have left?williamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
At best, it could lead to the best of all worlds - free trade, but no politics.
I doubt if either extreme will happen. What we can say for definite is it is better than the alternative - which is No Deal right now.
Good night and sleep well.0 -
It hasn't been negotiated. The Political Statement is a set of parameters for a future negotiation. It's not even smoke and mirrors. The Withdrawal Agreement agrees the terms of leaving, sets up a backstop for the Irish border in the absence of any other arrangement and allows a two year extension. That's it. The easy bit. The real negotiations start after Brexit.ydoethur said:
Can we consider the possibility it's because they're idiots who haven't bothered to read what's on offer?Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
The funny thing is, I'm really drawn to it as a Remainer as well. It offers the prospect of keepin gmost of the stuff I like about the EU - free markets, free travel, security co-operation etc - while getting rid of the deeply problematic stuff like the ludicrous cumbersome bureaucracy, the old boys clubs, whoops, Parliament, Commission and Council and eliminates the kangaroo court, er CJEU.
What's not to like?0 -
Baby Burke's grandfather is named Randy.MarqueeMark said:
The client in my first big arbitration was called Randy Kruk.....ydoethur said:
Dear me. 'The American student is a Burke' just writes itself as a bullying line in the first week.rpjs said:
My wife's brother-in-law and his wife just had a baby boy. His first name is Burke.TheScreamingEagles said:
So he clearly won't be doing a year abroad in the UK when he goes to college then.
Edit - the local squire where I grew up had the unfortunate name of Robin Hoare.0 -
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.
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At least it would be Brexit I guess.FF43 said:
It hasn't been negotiated. The Political Statement is a set of parameters for a future negotiation. It's not even smoke and mirrors. The Withdrawal Agreement agrees the terms of leaving, sets up a backstop for the Irish border in the absence of any other arrangement and allows a two temporary extension. That's it. The easy bit. The real negotiations start after Brexit.ydoethur said:
Can we consider the possibility it's because they're idiots who haven't bothered to read what's on offer?Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
The funny thing is, I'm really drawn to it as a Remainer as well. It offers the prospect of keepin gmost of the stuff I like about the EU - free markets, free travel, security co-operation etc - while getting rid of the deeply problematic stuff like the ludicrous cumbersome bureaucracy, the old boys clubs, whoops, Parliament, Commission and Council and eliminates the kangaroo court, er CJEU.
What's not to like?
Interesting pieceAndyJS said:"Jesus was a ‘somewhere’. Paul was an ‘anywhere’"
https://unherd.com/2018/08/jesus-somewhere-paul-anywhere/0 -
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
Well now there was an interesting surprise this evening.
An old friend of mine from school who I only keep in contact with via FB popped up a posting. Life long old fashioned left winger, Labour party member and activist. He was posting one of the latest pieces from Spiked. I knew he had voted Remain last time and In the conversation below I said jokingly I was surprised he was posting pro-Leave stuff. His reply was:
"I voted remain, for economic reasons, but I'm so disillusioned by the liberal elite trying to destroy what the people voted for that I will vote leave should we ever have to do it again (which we shouldn't)."
Now I don't doubt for a minute he will be a pretty rare beast with that view but coming from the Leave side I was obviously pleased to see there are at least a few hardy souls who have been swayed away from Remain by the attitudes of the political classes.0 -
You are safe Ben. I will never concide thatBenpointer said:
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.0 -
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
And everybody asks "why am I friends with a person who insists I can't eat what I want?"kle4 said:
Three decide immediately to just go home instead, and four others refuse to pay for it as it is not what they initially wanted, and a punch up ensues.CarlottaVance said:
On Peston one of the reporters explained it thus: "Ten friends go to a restaurant and they have to agree on what to eat. Five like beef, but not fish, the other five like fish but not beef. So they settle on Chicken, none of their favourites, but good enough."Andrew said:
Probably inevitably. Let's face it, the other two options are not exactly attractive, so the middle of the road was always going to draw some converts .... even if without any enthusiasm.Big_G_NorthWales said:That is a substantial move to TM. And I was ignored when I said she was cutting through
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Easy to call it an outlier but the direction of travel is brexit. You do seem worried to be fairwilliamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
BellwetherBenpointer said:
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.0 -
It might surprise you to hear this but if we do Brexit I think the first focus should be on UK constitutional reform (and possibly dissolution) before rejoining. Not rejoining immediately as we are.Benpointer said:
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
You came close the night that TM's Chequers plan was so rudely and mockingly rejected by Brussels.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are safe Ben. I will never concide thatBenpointer said:
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.0 -
Not sure if anyone watched May answering questions to the Commons Liaison Committee this morning. Last two questioners were Bernard Jenkin and Bill Cash; what a pair of rude miserable arseholes they came across as.0
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You always think I sound worried.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Easy to call it an outlier but the direction of travel is brexit. You do seem worried to be fairwilliamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another 0 -
Remind me, "What's the definition of an outlier?"williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
Oh yes! "One I don't like."0 -
Shall we stick with reality for now rather than the imagined crimes of your straw man?ydoethur said:
So we should assume it will happen?kle4 said:
That would be incredibly intellectually dishonest of them.Casino_Royale said:Let's see how quickly the p**ple's vote campaign rolls back on a 2nd referendum once they realise there's a serious chance they might actually lose it.
(That phrase fits so many brexit debates)0 -
Not nowPhilip_Thompson said:
You came close the night that TM's Chequers plan was so rudely and mockingly rejected by Brussels.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are safe Ben. I will never concide thatBenpointer said:
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.0 -
Thank-you. I actually knew that one too dammit!TheScreamingEagles said:
BellwetherBenpointer said:
You're a bellweather Big_G...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
I'll start to panic when you begin suggesting a no deal crash-out is the best option.
(I'm feeling a bit sheepish now!)0 -
Aha, I assume you wish to prioritise a rerun of the AV referendum first up?williamglenn said:
It might surprise you to hear this but if we do Brexit I think the first focus should be on UK constitutional reform (and possibly dissolution) before rejoining. Not rejoining immediately as we are.Benpointer said:
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
I reckon they only polled ministers of online churches....CarlottaVance said:
Remind me, "What's the definition of an outlier?"williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
Oh yes! "One I don't like."0 -
They are ultra brexiteers and do not represent my viewsBenpointer said:Not sure if anyone watched May answering questions to the Commons Liaison Committee this morning. Last two questioners were Bernard Jenkin and Bill Cash; what a pair of rude miserable arseholes they came across as.
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I’m not sure that follows. The agencies have a panel of people - like YouGov etc - about whom they know a bunch of data and can pick a selection to match what’S needed. That said, this inclusion looks at best careless/unfortunategrabcocque said:
Except, we now know Maitlis was either lying or mistaken. The fake vicar came from an agency that specialises in providing "representative focus groups" (i.e. actors).CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1068202257408294913AndyJS said:Has Newsnight explained yet why they had a fake woman vicar on the show a few days ago?
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What else is new? Those two have always been a pair of . . . I can't think of a polite phrase.Benpointer said:Not sure if anyone watched May answering questions to the Commons Liaison Committee this morning. Last two questioners were Bernard Jenkin and Bill Cash; what a pair of rude miserable arseholes they came across as.
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No, Scottish independence first.kle4 said:
Aha, I assume you wish to prioritise a rerun of the AV referendum first up?williamglenn said:
It might surprise you to hear this but if we do Brexit I think the first focus should be on UK constitutional reform (and possibly dissolution) before rejoining. Not rejoining immediately as we are.Benpointer said:
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
Sir Bernard Jenkin and Sir William Cash, majorities of 14356 and 17495 respectively. They can be as rude and miserable as they like, they've clearly got it made already.Benpointer said:Not sure if anyone watched May answering questions to the Commons Liaison Committee this morning. Last two questioners were Bernard Jenkin and Bill Cash; what a pair of rude miserable arseholes they came across as.
0 -
Indeed. We don't really have any choice over the Withdrawal Agreement. Actually it's an OK agreement, as far as it goes. The problem no-one is being honest about Brexit. Certainly not Theresa May. We will Brexit and find there's no deal there.kle4 said:
At least it would be Brexit I guess.FF43 said:
It hasn't been negotiated. The Political Statement is a set of parameters for a future negotiation. It's not even smoke and mirrors. The Withdrawal Agreement agrees the terms of leaving, sets up a backstop for the Irish border in the absence of any other arrangement and allows a two temporary extension. That's it. The easy bit. The real negotiations start after Brexit.ydoethur said:
Can we consider the possibility it's because they're idiots who haven't bothered to read what's on offer?Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
The funny thing is, I'm really drawn to it as a Remainer as well. It offers the prospect of keepin gmost of the stuff I like about the EU - free markets, free travel, security co-operation etc - while getting rid of the deeply problematic stuff like the ludicrous cumbersome bureaucracy, the old boys clubs, whoops, Parliament, Commission and Council and eliminates the kangaroo court, er CJEU.
What's not to like?
0 -
His remark comes straight out of Brendan’s lexicon. Sounds as if Spiked has radicalized him to me. Anyone know a good de-programmer?Richard_Tyndall said:Well now there was an interesting surprise this evening.
An old friend of mine from school who I only keep in contact with via FB popped up a posting. Life long old fashioned left winger, Labour party member and activist. He was posting one of the latest pieces from Spiked. I knew he had voted Remain last time and In the conversation below I said jokingly I was surprised he was posting pro-Leave stuff. His reply was:
"I voted remain, for economic reasons, but I'm so disillusioned by the liberal elite trying to destroy what the people voted for that I will vote leave should we ever have to do it again (which we shouldn't)."
Now I don't doubt for a minute he will be a pretty rare beast with that view but coming from the Leave side I was obviously pleased to see there are at least a few hardy souls who have been swayed away from Remain by the attitudes of the political classes.0 -
Should that not wait until after the transition period (assuming we get one)? The shape of things after the transition period could be relevant to our dear northern comrades.williamglenn said:
No, Scottish independence first.kle4 said:
Aha, I assume you wish to prioritise a rerun of the AV referendum first up?williamglenn said:
It might surprise you to hear this but if we do Brexit I think the first focus should be on UK constitutional reform (and possibly dissolution) before rejoining. Not rejoining immediately as we are.Benpointer said:
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another0 -
What happens if we go for ‘no deal’ and in the run up a series of side deals are agreed to prevent interruption of trade, medicines food etc?Stark_Dawning said:
Good point! I’m starting to think No Deal and all the misery, impoverishment and humiliation it will entail will be salutary in the long term. Let’s leave the Leavers nowhere to hide. After that we can grind the bastards into the dust.OllyT said:
Dear god there is always going to be an excuse isn't there.MarqueeMark said:
In which case the Brexit Show-trials that OGH is so keen on will be of those who blocked efforts to prepare - and left us unprotected from such an outcome.Beverley_C said:
I think we have to Leave with No Deal. It is the only way to sort this out.HYUFD said:
Survation this week had Remain 10% ahead of No Deal Leave and 9% ahead of Leave with a Deal but this Delta poll shows those relying on a ' People's Vote' are not guaranteed a Remain winCarlottaVance said:
If we are stupid enough to go down the No Deal route then we need to ditch May, let a hardliner take over, delay A50 for 24 months then leave.MarqueeMark said:
In which case the Brexit Show-trials that OGH is so keen on will be of those who blocked efforts to prepare - and left us unprotected from such an outcome.Beverley_C said:
I think we have to Leave with No Deal. It is the only way to sort this out.HYUFD said:
Survation this week had Remain 10% ahead of No Deal Leave and 9% ahead of Leave with a Deal but this Delta poll shows those relying on a ' People's Vote' are not guaranteed a Remain winCarlottaVance said:
At that point the leavers will finally have run out of f**ing excuses and there will be nobody else to blame, though I have no doubt some more will be dreamed up in the meantime. Iron law of Brexit, nothing is the fault of Brexit it is always just the wrong sort of Brexit.
We roll over into April and the world carries on, no empty shelves, no grounded planes, typhoid epidemics or insulin dependent diabetics collapsing in the street. . What do you think of our chances of ever rejoining Eu are ?0 -
The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=210 -
Ms Abbott is not going to be happy...unless it is armed with water pistols.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068267479984676867?s=210 -
TBF I agree. I suspect by 2050 Ireland will be united and Scotland, England, and Wales (or possibly Scotland and England & Wales) will be independent members of the EU.williamglenn said:
No, Scottish independence first.kle4 said:
Aha, I assume you wish to prioritise a rerun of the AV referendum first up?williamglenn said:
It might surprise you to hear this but if we do Brexit I think the first focus should be on UK constitutional reform (and possibly dissolution) before rejoining. Not rejoining immediately as we are.Benpointer said:
I admire your consistency in support of Remain William but I think you should start focusing on the long Re-join campaign (which would have my support).williamglenn said:
The Deltapoll people are quoting looks like an outlier. In any case it doesn't worry me if Deal starts out ahead of Remain. At least that shows it's a balanced debate and not a stitch up, so leavers shouldn't fear a referendum to seek 'informed consent' for the withdrawal agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tonight for the first time the polls are showing the referendum losing considerable tractionwilliamglenn said:
The questioning leading up to this summary from Yvette Cooper shows why you're wrong to assume this will deliver what you expect. It's very much a pseudo-Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Or, people realise May's deal isn't actually that bad.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems like project fear 2.0 is working.CarlottaVance said:OGH Tweets
twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1068251408661659650
It's actually quite a hard Brexit. I'm baffled why more Brexiteers aren't fully behind it. I'd have killed for this (figuratively) three years ago.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1068134725578035201
If this momentum continues we will brexit one way or another
(The Yorkshire First Party will be campaigning for independence, no doubt.)0 -
What a grim situation. What is there to refer for? Ffs.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=210 -
It's yet another of a long series of Guardian campaigns.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
Since Viner has taken over as editor the Graun has really upped its game on investigative journalism. Some campaigns have been more successful than others of course, as is to be expected.0 -
0
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Remember the lack of preparedness of the German military.....
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/10682559236034150460 -
How the mighty have fallen.CarlottaVance said:Remember the lack of preparedness of the German military.....
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/10682559236034150460 -
It has always seemed absurd to me that referring to "coloured people" is highly offensive and racist, while referring to "people of colour" is highly right on!FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=210 -
Car industry? Financial services?notme said:
What happens if we go for ‘no deal’ and in the run up a series of side deals are agreed to prevent interruption of trade, medicines food etc?Stark_Dawning said:
Good point! I’m starting to think No Deal and all the misery, impoverishment and humiliation it will entail will be salutary in the long term. Let’s leave the Leavers nowhere to hide. After that we can grind the bastards into the dust.OllyT said:
Dear god there is always going to be an excuse isn't there.MarqueeMark said:
In which case the Brexit Show-trials that OGH is so keen on will be of those who blocked efforts to prepare - and left us unprotected from such an outcome.Beverley_C said:
I think we have to Leave with No Deal. It is the only way to sort this out.HYUFD said:
Survation this week had Remain 10% ahead of No Deal Leave and 9% ahead of Leave with a Deal but this Delta poll shows those relying on a ' People's Vote' are not guaranteed a Remain winCarlottaVance said:
If we are stupid enough to go down the No Deal route then we need to ditch May, let a hardliner take over, delay A50 for 24 months then leave.MarqueeMark said:
In which case the Brexit Show-trials that OGH is so keen on will be of those who blocked efforts to prepare - and left us unprotected from such an outcome.Beverley_C said:
I think we have to Leave with No Deal. It is the only way to sort this out.HYUFD said:
Survation this week had Remain 10% ahead of No Deal Leave and 9% ahead of Leave with a Deal but this Delta poll shows those relying on a ' People's Vote' are not guaranteed a Remain winCarlottaVance said:
At that point the leavers will finally have run out of f**ing excuses and there will be nobody else to blame, though I have no doubt some more will be dreamed up in the meantime. Iron law of Brexit, nothing is the fault of Brexit it is always just the wrong sort of Brexit.
We roll over into April and the world carries on, no empty shelves, no grounded planes, typhoid epidemics or insulin dependent diabetics collapsing in the street. . What do you think of our chances of ever rejoining Eu are ?0 -
-
Right all. That's me done for the evening.
It's fantastic to see that the great Brexit conundrum is finally comeing to a satisfactory resolution.
(Oh well, I can dream
) 0 -
Paging @Grabcocque
May's deal is the clear Schulze method winner. p[M,N] = 59; p[M,R] = 56; p[N,R] = 52. No other paths. Therefore M > N > R
It is also the alternative vote winner. [R = 39, M = 33, N = 28] -> [M = 56, R = 44]0 -
That could be the clincher! May's deal looking more certain by the dayScott_P said: 0 -
I have to say I have totally missed what has caused everybody to turn against Taylor.Benpointer said:
It's yet another of a long series of Guardian campaigns.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
Since Viner has taken over as editor the Graun has really upped its game on investigative journalism. Some campaigns have been more successful than others of course, as is to be expected.
Personally I have never been a fan as his position is normally one of being totally unwilling to condemn any player no mattter what they have done, but i caught a bit last week or so of a load of ex-pros sticking the boot in.0 -
Aw, diddums. If MPs want to vote against the deal in mid December that's fine, but it seems reasonable that they then have to work throughout the period - we will be in crisis and needing to come up with another option, which might require substantial parliamentary debate, and a long recess can ill be afforded. Buckle up.Scott_P said:
But in contrast to some of the optimism on here, another story about opposition to the deal growing, not shrinking.0 -
And have a good nights rest, indeed to everyone as I retire tonight as wellBenpointer said:Right all. That's me done for the evening.
It's fantastic to see that the great Brexit conundrum is finally comeing to a satisfactory resolution.
(Oh well, I can dream)
Good night folks0 -
Serves em right to be honest.Benpointer said:0 -
And they want France's UN Security Council seat......?CarlottaVance said:Remember the lack of preparedness of the German military.....
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/10682559236034150460 -
In parliament maybe just as the country backs TMkle4 said:
Aw, diddums. If MPs want to vote against the deal in mid December that's fine, but it seems reasonable that they then have to work throughout the period - we will be in crisis and needing to come up with another option, which might require substantial parliamentary debate, and a long recess can ill be afforded. Buckle up.Scott_P said:
But in contrast to some of the optimism on here, another story about opposition to the deal growing, not shrinking.
She is right to appeal over their heads0 -
It's informed politeness Foxy, as you probably know; refer to people the way they wish to be referred to.Foxy said:
It has always seemed absurd to me that referring to "coloured people" is highly offensive and racist, while referring to "people of colour" is highly right on!FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
'Coloured' has perjorative overtones from the pre-civil rights US and the SA aprtheid eras. But you know that really 0 -
I think there should be a referendum on whether the Brexit debate is on BBC or ITV.0
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Of course I know it, but it is linguistically absurd!Benpointer said:
It's informed politeness Foxy, as you probably know; refer to people the way they wish to be referred to.Foxy said:
It has always seemed absurd to me that referring to "coloured people" is highly offensive and racist, while referring to "people of colour" is highly right on!FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
'Coloured' has perjorative overtones from the pre-civil rights US and the SA aprtheid eras. But you know that really
And don't tell the NAACP...
0 -
Perhaps May should do a cameo on Strictly , whilst Jezza is flown out to eat Kangaroo bollocks in the jungle.0
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Leftwingers with a notion of "liberal elite" are rare in themselves, but a referendum with a Remain option shouldn't give you much to worry about, @Richard. The campaign is already being fought, below the line. Hence Tommy Robinson's intervention in the Huddersfield bullying story, which has probably entered millions of minds by now with its age-old racist message. I knew when I heard the Huddersfield story that it would help Leave.Richard_Tyndall said:Well now there was an interesting surprise this evening.
An old friend of mine from school who I only keep in contact with via FB popped up a posting. Life long old fashioned left winger, Labour party member and activist. He was posting one of the latest pieces from Spiked. I knew he had voted Remain last time and In the conversation below I said jokingly I was surprised he was posting pro-Leave stuff. His reply was:
"I voted remain, for economic reasons, but I'm so disillusioned by the liberal elite trying to destroy what the people voted for that I will vote leave should we ever have to do it again (which we shouldn't)."
Now I don't doubt for a minute he will be a pretty rare beast with that view but coming from the Leave side I was obviously pleased to see there are at least a few hardy souls who have been swayed away from Remain by the attitudes of the political classes.
Then there was the 1997 Winchester parliamentary by-election. The Tory candidate who lost to the Liberal Democrat by two votes successfully challenged the result on the wholly justified ground that a few dozen ballots had been improperly voided. Few cared about the technical details or the fairness argument. Many considered that the umpire had called the Tory out and he was refusing to walk. The LibDem won the by-election 5 months after the GE on a swing of 20%.
Justine Greening's "22 weeks" contribution should be taken with a mountain of salt. What are they going to do - have a "conditional" campaign for the EU election running simultaneously with the referendum campaign? Idiocy!0 -
Troughing it massively springs to mind.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have to say I have totally missed what has caused everybody to turn against Taylor.Benpointer said:
It's yet another of a long series of Guardian campaigns.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
Since Viner has taken over as editor the Graun has really upped its game on investigative journalism. Some campaigns have been more successful than others of course, as is to be expected.
Personally I have never been a fan as his position is normally one of being totally unwilling to condemn any player no mattter what they have done, but i caught a bit last week or so of a load of ex-pros sticking the boot in.
0 -
I thought that was a given in football administration positions?Benpointer said:
Troughing it massively springs to mind.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have to say I have totally missed what has caused everybody to turn against Taylor.Benpointer said:
It's yet another of a long series of Guardian campaigns.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
Since Viner has taken over as editor the Graun has really upped its game on investigative journalism. Some campaigns have been more successful than others of course, as is to be expected.
Personally I have never been a fan as his position is normally one of being totally unwilling to condemn any player no mattter what they have done, but i caught a bit last week or so of a load of ex-pros sticking the boot in.0 -
Your secret's safe with me.Foxy said:
Of course I know it, but it is linguistically absurd!Benpointer said:
It's informed politeness Foxy, as you probably know; refer to people the way they wish to be referred to.Foxy said:
It has always seemed absurd to me that referring to "coloured people" is highly offensive and racist, while referring to "people of colour" is highly right on!FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
'Coloured' has perjorative overtones from the pre-civil rights US and the SA aprtheid eras. But you know that really
And don't tell the NAACP... 0 -
That's what happens when you screw up in business.CarlottaVance said:
Are you watching, politicians?0 -
Indeed, but Blatter and Platini have been knocked off their perches, which brings others into the limelight.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought that was a given in football administration positions?Benpointer said:
Troughing it massively springs to mind.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have to say I have totally missed what has caused everybody to turn against Taylor.Benpointer said:
It's yet another of a long series of Guardian campaigns.FrancisUrquhart said:The knives are really out for Taylor at the PFA.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1068262586200805378?s=21
Since Viner has taken over as editor the Graun has really upped its game on investigative journalism. Some campaigns have been more successful than others of course, as is to be expected.
Personally I have never been a fan as his position is normally one of being totally unwilling to condemn any player no mattter what they have done, but i caught a bit last week or so of a load of ex-pros sticking the boot in.0 -
Well well well it looks like it's going to get worse, much worse before it gets worse.0
-
Sacked with a massive pay-off no doubt.MarqueeMark said:
That's what happens when you screw up in business.CarlottaVance said:
Are you watching, politicians?
Politicians pay a brutal price at times too - just look at every living former PM.0 -
"the value of your investment can fall as well as plummet"Pulpstar said:Well well well it looks like it's going to get worse, much worse before it gets worse.
0 -
It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.0
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Err, nothing has changed™.Pulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
0 -
If I might suggest a slight change abovePulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward soft Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
0 -
The Sun is reporting, helped in their distribution by Google, that the Syrian bullying victim in Huddersfield has received £135000 in donations. That kind of news helps Leave a lot.Pulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
The country is f*cked.0 -
Sure, but lets wait and see what parliament decides (or doesn't)...Benpointer said:
If I might suggest a slight change abovePulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward soft Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
0 -
If MPs are for anything it’s for working over Christmas at times like this.0
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To be fair, I wonder if the RAF would be in any better place. The long-haul VIP jets are just moonlighting from their day jobs as tankers, so if the one taking the PM to a conference went tech they too might be hard pressed to rustle up a replacement. In fact, is May even taking a RAF plane? Usually for these sorts of thing they charter from BA or fly scheduled.CarlottaVance said:Remember the lack of preparedness of the German military.....
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/10682559236034150460 -
There is no debate possible that will create a solution. The EU negotiates with governments not parliaments. All cutting the recess will do is give people more time to repeat their lines - there is no willingness to listen or compromise being shown by those who oppose the deal.kle4 said:
Aw, diddums. If MPs want to vote against the deal in mid December that's fine, but it seems reasonable that they then have to work throughout the period - we will be in crisis and needing to come up with another option, which might require substantial parliamentary debate, and a long recess can ill be afforded. Buckle up.Scott_P said:
But in contrast to some of the optimism on here, another story about opposition to the deal growing, not shrinking.
Parliament cannot set the terms for any negotiation - we don't have a system that makes that in any way feasible.
Stalemate means No Deal - that is what the existing legislation means. We leave without a deal at the end of March.
There is but one deal on the table. There is no prospect of re-opening the negotiations. MPs have to come to terms with that fact.
Refusing the accept the deal means no deal. Nothing they can say or do alters that fact.
Is it a great deal? No. It is workable - probably. Is there a viable alternative? No.
Yes, opposition is there to oppose - but it is also there to put forward a viable alternative and vision. As of yet, I have seen nothing resembling that from anyone who has spoken out against the deal.0 -
What would there be for Parliament to do over the holidays?
Surely as discussed on here a few days ago there would be a cosmetic renegotiation leading to a clarification of the backstop which will take a few weeks, followed by the clarified deal returning to the Commons in late Jan / early Feb after approval at a Jan EU Summit.0 -
Can Labour find someone to appear on QT who doesn’t just shout?0
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What has Leave got to do with teenage racist bullying?Notch said:
The Sun is reporting, helped in their distribution by Google, that the Syrian bullying victim in Huddersfield has received £135000 in donations. That kind of news helps Leave a lot.Pulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
The country is f*cked.0 -
I agree with you, but MPs do not and they are going to vote down the deal and then demand we do something else. All the more reason not to recess. If you are right and they need to face up to the facts they should exhaust all their options and come to terms with it before Christmas, not waste even more time and wait until afterwards.oxfordsimon said:
There is no debate possible that will create a solution. The EU negotiates with governments not parliaments. All cutting the recess will do is give people more time to repeat their lines - there is no willingness to listen or compromise being shown by those who oppose the deal.kle4 said:
Aw, diddums. If MPs want to vote against the deal in mid December that's fine, but it seems reasonable that they then have to work throughout the period - we will be in crisis and needing to come up with another option, which might require substantial parliamentary debate, and a long recess can ill be afforded. Buckle up.Scott_P said:
But in contrast to some of the optimism on here, another story about opposition to the deal growing, not shrinking.
Parliament cannot set the terms for any negotiation - we don't have a system that makes that in any way feasible.
Stalemate means No Deal - that is what the existing legislation means. We leave without a deal at the end of March.
There is but one deal on the table. There is no prospect of re-opening the negotiations. MPs have to come to terms with that fact.
Refusing the accept the deal means no deal. Nothing they can say or do alters that fact.
Is it a great deal? No. It is workable - probably. Is there a viable alternative? No.
Yes, opposition is there to oppose - but it is also there to put forward a viable alternative and vision. As of yet, I have seen nothing resembling that from anyone who has spoken out against the deal.0 -
+1AlastairMeeks said:If MPs are for anything it’s for working over Christmas at times like this.
0 -
Maybe, though the odds of a Yes to May's deal are drifting on Betfair. Now at 5.5.Pulpstar said:It definitely feels like the zeitgeist is swinging back toward Brexit this evening, parliament out of touch.
0 -
They certainly used to. Why, a bill to ban Xmas was itself proposed in parliament on Xmas, which shows people had a sense of humour even in 1656.AlastairMeeks said:If MPs are for anything it’s for working over Christmas at times like this.
0 -
Layla Moran talking about a second referendum going down like a bucket of cold sick in Penzance...0
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If they're going to cock about they might as well be there the whole time - since it will have been parliament telling May (or caretaker PM) that the deal won't fly, perhaps they should stay to receive daily updates and give their views on it - no point in waiting to hear the progress at the end and it is still not acceptable.MikeL said:What would there be for Parliament to do over the holidays?
Surely as discussed on here a few days ago there would be a cosmetic renegotiation leading to a clarification of the backstop which will take a few weeks, followed by the clarified deal returning to the Commons in late Jan / early Feb after approval at a Jan EU Summit.0 -
It's interesting that when someone in the audience said we should have another vote there were lots of cheers, but when a politician said it, the reaction was more negative.Mortimer said:Layla Moran going down like a bucket of cold sick in Penzance...
0 -
Why can't we train more doctors here in the UK?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/29/government-set-to-relax-restrictions-on-non-eu-doctors0
This discussion has been closed.