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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now Corbyn and TMay are scrapping over whether the BBC or ITV

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  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Corbyn should do the ITV by himself, taking questions from lots of colourful, salt-of-the-earth folk.

    And then an hour later, May can do the BBC, answering carefully pre-screened tedious technicalities from a small panel of elderly civil servants in shiny lounge suits.
  • RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    Your hatred of Theresa May is affecting your judgement on this one
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,291

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Corbyn prefers ITV , could May accept that ?

    If not why ?
    Why does Corbyn call the shots?
    Because he won the last election
    I am minded of the mild primary school corruption of the Christmas carol:

    While shepherds washed their socks at night
    All watching ITV
    The angel of the lord came down
    And turned to BBC

    (Although the less spoken of baby baboons, the better)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,909

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Putting the predictable dig against Labour to one side, I'm confused.

    May obviously wants the opportunity to evangelise further about her Treaty about which she can no doubt quote chapter and verse. Being able to discuss the minutiae of the objections to her Deal would suit her ideally and keeping the debate wholly to the Deal works for her.

    It's a bit like you going on to Mastermind and one of your opponents getting to choose your specialist subject.

    As this morning showed, May can bore for Britain on the detail of the Treaty so, as I argued when this was first mooted, what's in it for Corbyn?

    I'd like the debate to be expanded beyond the Deal but would May agree to it?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,746

    RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1068103801058381824?s=21
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    Wow, I'm amazed. You missed several opportunities to call her a xenophobe. ;)
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    Your hatred of Theresa May is affecting your judgement on this one
    Hatred will negatively impair judgement as well as a lot of other things in life.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    Out of respect for the person who got us to where we are now, shouldn't the TV debate be on Dave?

    I think Corbyn's really holding out for Press TV. ;)
  • RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    You are showing your bias again
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234


    Your hatred of Theresa May is affecting your judgement on this one

    FWIW, I don't really *hate* her. It would be a waste of a powerful emotion on one so pitiable.

    Perhaps there is a pro-May explanation for why she's trying to wriggle out of a head-to-head, and I'm sure it'll be made in due course by Carlotta.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
  • RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.
    Your hatred of Theresa May is affecting your judgement on this one
    It comes through on most of his posts but he is not alone

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    May won't accept ITV, because the ITV format is head to head with Jeremy, and in front of an audience of real people.

    May is deathly afraid of both, it seems.
  • The TV debate is a very clever metaphor for the whole Brexit issue. We can't even decide which TV channel they should be on, never mind what type of customs union we want.

    Sums everything up nicely.
  • stodge said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Putting the predictable dig against Labour to one side, I'm confused.

    May obviously wants the opportunity to evangelise further about her Treaty about which she can no doubt quote chapter and verse. Being able to discuss the minutiae of the objections to her Deal would suit her ideally and keeping the debate wholly to the Deal works for her.

    It's a bit like you going on to Mastermind and one of your opponents getting to choose your specialist subject.

    As this morning showed, May can bore for Britain on the detail of the Treaty so, as I argued when this was first mooted, what's in it for Corbyn?

    I'd like the debate to be expanded beyond the Deal but would May agree to it?
    Why - brexit is the issue and Corbyn needs to come under the microscope.

    TM is under daily examination by all sides of this. When has Corbyn
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Mrs May: "I am going to put the deal to the people!"
    ITV: "Okay, here is some people."
    Mrs May: "No, not those people. I meant other people. Andrew Neil."

  • Your hatred of Theresa May is affecting your judgement on this one

    FWIW, I don't really *hate* her. It would be a waste of a powerful emotion on one so pitiable.

    Perhaps there is a pro-May explanation for why she's trying to wriggle out of a head-to-head, and I'm sure it'll be made in due course by Carlotta.
    You are being riduculous. The BBC format is no different to ITV and is head to head

  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779

    Out of respect for the person who got us to where we are now, shouldn't the TV debate be on Dave?

    I think Corbyn's really holding out for Press TV. ;)
    Head to head debate. Is that not just going to be Corbyn and May deflecting one point, and trying to make another? Why not screen it on an appropriate channel (BBC Parliament?) and hold it in an appropriate setting, like the Palace of Westminster. You could get MP's to be the audience and have Corbyn ask questions from the public. Perhaps put it during the day - like a Wednesday lunchtime... You could even give it a name 'Questions to the Prime Minister' perhaps. If it was really popular you could make it a weekly event...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,291
    edited November 2018

    Out of respect for the person who got us to where we are now, shouldn't the TV debate be on Dave?

    I think Corbyn's really holding out for Press TV. ;)
    I hate to imagine the trials faced by the scantily clad, dubiously moralled, Z-list celebrities on their reality TV finals.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,159
    edited November 2018
    justin124 said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
    There is only one debate. The BBC are the national broadcaster. It is the correct media for this
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
    There is only one debate. The BBC are the national broadcaster. It is the correct media for this
    The BBC is one of several national broadcasters!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Stick it on Babestation
  • Perhaps we need multiple debates...BBC..ITV..Sky....

    Runs away....
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
    There is only one debate. The BBC are the national broadcaster. It is the correct media for this
    The BBC is one of several national broadcasters!
    The only one that is tax payer funded though.
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
    There is only one debate. The BBC are the national broadcaster. It is the correct media for this
    The BBC is one of several national broadcasters!
    I would expect it would be streamed across the media
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    Perhaps we need multiple debates...BBC..ITV..Sky....

    Runs away....

    Russia Today?
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471
    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.
  • justin124 said:

    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.

    He has not been publically examined throughout this in a meaningful way unlike TM daily grind

    It does look as if he is scared to be cross examined by a panel of experts
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    tpfkar said:

    Perhaps we need multiple debates...BBC..ITV..Sky....

    Runs away....

    Russia Today?
    They do have a dog in the fight!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,296
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the Cohen plea, recall that Trump only just submitted a sworn open book reply to Mueller questions which included this one:

    What communication did you have with Michael D. Cohen, Felix Sater and others, including foreign nationals, about Russian real estate developments during the campaign?

    What odds that he lied, under penalty of perjury ?

    His replies will have been written by lawyers (and they will have been checked 100 times) who will have couched every response in ways that make them hard to be direct lies.

    There will be lots of "I do not recall" and "to the best of my knowledge".

    Much, much more possible is that Trump Jr will have lied under oath. And I think would be a big issue for the Trump Presidency. There's no way that the President can allow his son to plead guilty and go to jail, even for a few days. There's no way that he can end up in court. There's no way he can be pardoned. That's why the Trump administration has been getting increasingly frenzied and have been retweeting the image of Rosenstein, Clinton and Obama behind bars and suggesting they should be jailed for treason. (Which is pretty astonishing, when you think of it.)

    The assumption in the Trump camp had been - pre-Manafort - that trials would be seen to be politically motivated and a witchhunt, and therefore that there would always be at least one juror who would choose to ignore the evidence. That assumption has now changed.

    Interesting times.
    I wouldn't bet against Trump having incriminated himself - look at the quality of his lawyers (cough..Guiliani).
    And yes, Jnr. is a bigger risk - and twice as stupid.
  • tpfkar said:

    Perhaps we need multiple debates...BBC..ITV..Sky....

    Runs away....

    Russia Today?
    Russia Today is far too right wing for Corbyn.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    edited November 2018
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the Cohen plea, recall that Trump only just submitted a sworn open book reply to Mueller questions which included this one:

    What communication did you have with Michael D. Cohen, Felix Sater and others, including foreign nationals, about Russian real estate developments during the campaign?

    What odds that he lied, under penalty of perjury ?

    His replies will have been written by lawyers (and they will have been checked 100 times) who will have couched every response in ways that make them hard to be direct lies.

    There will be lots of "I do not recall" and "to the best of my knowledge".

    Much, much more possible is that Trump Jr will have lied under oath. And I think would be a big issue for the Trump Presidency. There's no way that the President can allow his son to plead guilty and go to jail, even for a few days. There's no way that he can end up in court. There's no way he can be pardoned. That's why the Trump administration has been getting increasingly frenzied and have been retweeting the image of Rosenstein, Clinton and Obama behind bars and suggesting they should be jailed for treason. (Which is pretty astonishing, when you think of it.)

    The assumption in the Trump camp had been - pre-Manafort - that trials would be seen to be politically motivated and a witchhunt, and therefore that there would always be at least one juror who would choose to ignore the evidence. That assumption has now changed.

    Interesting times.
    I wouldn't bet against Trump having incriminated himself - look at the quality of his lawyers (cough..Guiliani).
    And yes, Jnr. is a bigger risk - and twice as stupid.
    I hope it is Ivanka.

    I’ve seen those films about prisons with all female inmates.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited November 2018
    Cicero said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    He can agree to a debate on ITV. Would May accept?
    There is only one debate. The BBC are the national broadcaster. It is the correct media for this
    The BBC is one of several national broadcasters!
    The only one that is tax payer funded though.
    I thought channel 4 has a public service broadcasting remit .?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.

    He has not been publically examined throughout this in a meaningful way unlike TM daily grind

    It does look as if he is scared to be cross examined by a panel of experts
    May is the one who appears desperate for the debate , and as such she is hardly in a position to dictate. Frankly the idea seems a load of nonsense principally designed to divert attention from her own failure..
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,909


    Why - brexit is the issue and Corbyn needs to come under the microscope.

    TM is under daily examination by all sides of this. When has Corbyn

    Why does Corbyn need to come under the microscope? Seriously, why?

    He has had nothing to do with the negotiations or the Deal and the last I heard there isn't a GE so the argument that we should now what his view would be in the event of him becoming a PM only matters if May is going to voluntarily resign and the Conservatives are voluntarily going to go into Opposition and I'd have to believe pigs can fly first.

    So, again, why does Corbyn need to be "put under the microscope" ? I understand the strategic and political advantages from a Conservative perspective but Corbyn isn't going to be PM before 29/3/19 - it's solely a game and if Corbyn has any sense he'll make sense the cards are as stacked in his favour as possible.
  • rcs1000 said:

    What does Theresa hope to achieve with this? Apart from supporters of her deal - who you could surely fit in a telephone box - everyone will be willing her to fail. I can't see here changing any minds, even if she has a blinder, and she runs a terrible risk.

    Tory members like Corbyn even less than they like her and they put pressure on MPs, so there's a benefit to making it look like the dispute is between her and Corbyn, rather than between her and half the parliamentary Conservative party.
    +1
    +2 - The Tory backbenches, which have been surly at best were in full throated approval when May steered PMQ replies away from Brexit and onto the damage Labour would do to the economy.
  • Xenon said:

    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.

    The way out is to have the meaningful vote and see the way the cards fall and of course each mps voting record will be on display

    As I said earlier it is then for TM to announce her way forward. She may have a plan for the deal falling, she may seek cabinet advice, she may summon all the leaders for cross party talks, she may resign and many other options

    BBC saying their is cross party alliance growing between conservatives, labour, lib dems, snp and others to try to put in place a new approach, no doubt Norway plus

    Seems Norway is becoming a cross party position and looks more likely by the day
  • Yorkcity said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Corbyn prefers ITV , could May accept that ?

    If not why ?
    Why should she?

    May is PM, May was the first to accept a broadcaster's proposal while Corbyn has dithered.

    Either Corbyn goes to the BBC or the debate doesn't happen.
  • RobD said:


    Why does Corbyn call the shots?

    He doesn't, necessarily. But it's about the optics.

    May, apparently, wants a head to head debate. ITV are offering it and May's running scared.

    May wanted to "sell the deal to the people". ITV are offering an audience of real people, and May's running scared.

    Labour are going to say (with some justification) that she wants to go with the Brexit-horny BBC because she knows they'll soft-pedal her, and she's a coward, avoiding a head-to-head in front of real people.

    And we know May *is* a coward, so I think the charge will stick.

    Citations required....... "apparently"......
  • Xenon said:

    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.

    The way out is to have the meaningful vote and see the way the cards fall and of course each mps voting record will be on display

    As I said earlier it is then for TM to announce her way forward. She may have a plan for the deal falling, she may seek cabinet advice, she may summon all the leaders for cross party talks, she may resign and many other options

    BBC saying their is cross party alliance growing between conservatives, labour, lib dems, snp and others to try to put in place a new approach, no doubt Norway plus

    Seems Norway is becoming a cross party position and looks more likely by the day
    Saves us having a referendum.

    Ultra Brexiteers, Faragists and Tommy Robinson will spend years causing trouble over this betrayal, but I think that will happen whatever happens.
  • stodge said:


    Why - brexit is the issue and Corbyn needs to come under the microscope.

    TM is under daily examination by all sides of this. When has Corbyn

    Why does Corbyn need to come under the microscope? Seriously, why?

    He has had nothing to do with the negotiations or the Deal and the last I heard there isn't a GE so the argument that we should now what his view would be in the event of him becoming a PM only matters if May is going to voluntarily resign and the Conservatives are voluntarily going to go into Opposition and I'd have to believe pigs can fly first.

    So, again, why does Corbyn need to be "put under the microscope" ? I understand the strategic and political advantages from a Conservative perspective but Corbyn isn't going to be PM before 29/3/19 - it's solely a game and if Corbyn has any sense he'll make sense the cards are as stacked in his favour as possible.
    At times I do find responses puzzling. Sky were mapping out Corbyn as PM by Xmas and you think Corbyn should not have his ambiguity challenged. Everyone knows TM position so you want Corbyn to be shielded
  • Xenon said:

    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.

    Seems Norway is becoming a cross party position and looks more likely by the day
    Very 'brave' allowing continued FoM.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Seriously, they're arguing about which channel screens a debate and what time it airs? What a load of garbage.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2018
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.

    He has not been publically examined throughout this in a meaningful way unlike TM daily grind

    It does look as if he is scared to be cross examined by a panel of experts
    May is the one who appears desperate for the debate , and as such she is hardly in a position to dictate. Frankly the idea seems a load of nonsense principally designed to divert attention from her own failure..
    May offered the debate, agreed to have it with the BBC, and she's the fucking PM. If Corbyn can't agree to something so utterly grey and banal as a chat on the BBC then he is pathetic beyond all reasonable measure.

    This is an opportunity to lay out the issues and the proposed resolution. Understanding is sorely lacking in the public at large. An hour of answering "why can't we just get on with it and LEAVE" and "I can't afford to pay for Sky because a Bulgarian took my job" in front of a crowd chosen for the ratings would add nothing, nothing to the debate and would be an utter waste of everyone's time.
  • kle4 said:

    Seriously, they're arguing about which channel screens a debate and what time it airs? What a load of garbage.

    Brexit in a nutshell.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    Xenon said:

    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.

    Seems Norway is becoming a cross party position and looks more likely by the day
    Very 'brave' allowing continued FoM.....
    Well the MPs who are most opposed to that are doing all they can to see we remain instead, unintentionally, so that's tough on them and a problem for the public later.
  • malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
  • stodge said:


    Why - brexit is the issue and Corbyn needs to come under the microscope.

    TM is under daily examination by all sides of this. When has Corbyn

    Why does Corbyn need to come under the microscope? Seriously, why?

    He has had nothing to do with the negotiations or the Deal and the last I heard there isn't a GE so the argument that we should now what his view would be in the event of him becoming a PM only matters if May is going to voluntarily resign and the Conservatives are voluntarily going to go into Opposition and I'd have to believe pigs can fly first.

    So, again, why does Corbyn need to be "put under the microscope" ? I understand the strategic and political advantages from a Conservative perspective but Corbyn isn't going to be PM before 29/3/19 - it's solely a game and if Corbyn has any sense he'll make sense the cards are as stacked in his favour as possible.
    It also means he will be pressed to be clear what he would do. No doubt it will just be a rant about foodbanks and thereby dodge the question yet again, but surely some of his Cult, especially the young, will be more likely to start to wonder.

    He is a eurosceptic to his very bones and always has been.
  • This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.

    He has not been publically examined throughout this in a meaningful way unlike TM daily grind

    It does look as if he is scared to be cross examined by a panel of experts
    May is the one who appears desperate for the debate , and as such she is hardly in a position to dictate. Frankly the idea seems a load of nonsense principally designed to divert attention from her own failure..
    Or avoid examination of the leader of the opposition who is demanding a GE
  • Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1068168429415424001
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    edited November 2018
    justin124 said:

    At the end of the day if May is keen to have this debate , it is not for her to dictate the terms or format on another participant. Corbyn is quite correct not to be bounced into an a predetermined arrangement.

    I think the whole argument is one of the most pathetic things seen yet in Brexit, and that's saying something.

    Why not just have May speak for an hour on BBC and Corbyn for an hour on ITV - it's not like they are going to actually alter much of what they'd say because the other one is physically there and contradicting them.

    Edit: Though even that might not work - I don't see what Corbyn gains from having such a debate.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited November 2018

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    An actress giving political views in a focus group is of course an episode of The Thick of It.

    Armando should be getting royalties for Brexit
  • That's not a name that's a child learning to type.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?
  • This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    It does provide a useful amendment for the HoC to ponder and vote upon. But would the ERG get it through the HoC? Who else is going to support it?

    https://twitter.com/IanWishart/status/1068063321482567682
  • This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    I have not heard of this draft and I would be intetested in reading it. Do you have a link
  • kle4 said:

    Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?
    Remember the woman who complained to Thomas Cook because nobody told her there would be fish swimming in the sea when she booked a beach holiday?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    What does Theresa hope to achieve with this? Apart from supporters of her deal - who you could surely fit in a telephone box - everyone will be willing her to fail. I can't see here changing any minds, even if she has a blinder, and she runs a terrible risk.

    Tory members like Corbyn even less than they like her and they put pressure on MPs, so there's a benefit to making it look like the dispute is between her and Corbyn, rather than between her and half the parliamentary Conservative party.
    That's the only reason I could think of for Mrs May coming up with the wheeze of a televised debate that surely makes a deal even harder than it already is. It assumes revolting Tory and DUP MPs will be won over by Theresa seeing off Jeremy on TV when PMQs in a much more tribal setting has no effect whatever. I have my doubts.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    kle4 said:

    Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?
    Remember the woman who complained to Thomas Cook because nobody told her there would be fish swimming in the sea when she booked a beach holiday?
    No. But I suppose there's clicks in both 'share in the outrage of this mum' and 'mock the outrage of this mum'.

    This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    It does provide a useful amendment for the HoC to ponder and vote upon. But would the ERG get it through the HoC? Who else is going to support it?

    https://twitter.com/IanWishart/status/1068063321482567682
    Perhaps they could convince 100 Tories and the Labour party of that.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    kle4 said:

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?

    No, it's the Sun fishing for traffic and links (like the one I provided) from people laughing at the absurd name.

    Welcome to the internet :D
  • Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
    Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.

    Maybe your bias showing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Anorak said:

    kle4 said:

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?

    No, it's the Sun fishing for traffic and links (like the one I provided) from people laughing at the absurd name.

    Welcome to the internet :D
    It's more the parents in these situations I wonder about - do they think this will lead to less mockery about the name?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2018

    This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    I have not heard of this draft and I would be intetested in reading it. Do you have a link
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1068157687689592834

    https://twitter.com/paulmcgrade/status/1068172249650421760
  • I can't think of a more suitably tawdry end to the Brexit fiasco than May and Corbyn fighting over which of the two main broadcssters' Reality TV shows will be gazumped by a mass debate.

    If the Sceptred Isle is destroyed by an asteroid strike 5 minutes before Brexit we will frankly deserve it.
  • Mrs May: "I am going to put the deal to the people!"
    ITV: "Okay, here is some people."
    Mrs May: "No, not those people. I meant other people. Andrew Neil."

    I think all politicians would rather those people than Andrew Neil!
  • Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
    Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.

    Maybe your bias showing
    To be fair she did shirk the public in the general election she chose to call and once you've done that its hard to shake the reputation.

    Of course then she was riding high, cocky and arrogant. Now she's getting scrappy as she's desperate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited November 2018

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
    Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.

    Maybe your bias showing
    No public at all met in Scotland yet again G, she has yet to ever talk to anyone from the public in Scotland ever. She flew in , limousine to a Tory donor's factory, rudeness of not even advising local MP's , then straight back to helicopter in darkened cars and whisked away.

    Only reason for it was to pretend she was meeting public, the tame media were allowed in and the only newspaper that supports independence was banned on her orders. Is it any wonder she is hated in Scotland.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
    There is a big reason that May will not want to widen the remit - if she wins the debate she is more likely to eventually get her deal through and I cannot see a Corbyn winning as he is exceptionally poor on detail. If the debate is widened - then Corbyn can use his grand slogans, and vague promises to land more blows.

    IMO I don’t see why the debate should be widened if the debate is about the deal. It would be a big risk for Corbyn as he will have to argue the case for something he doesn’t believe for an hour.
  • Mr. Anorak, clickbait, indeed.

    It's a wretched practice. Fortunately, my new video, 5 Top Ways to Avoid Clickbait will help ensure you never end up reading or watching stupid content ever again.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
    Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.

    Maybe your bias showing
    It was a rather bizarre flying visit to a leather factory in Scotland yesterday, to a few handpicked workers and not for the public.

    I dont think she likes pressing the flesh much.
  • This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    It does provide a useful amendment for the HoC to ponder and vote upon. But would the ERG get it through the HoC? Who else is going to support it?

    https://twitter.com/IanWishart/status/1068063321482567682
    Because they think they have a deal. We need to rub the smug grins off their faces and say no, no, no!
  • Xenon said:

    Maybe this gives them both a way out of this bad idea.

    The way out is to have the meaningful vote and see the way the cards fall and of course each mps voting record will be on display

    As I said earlier it is then for TM to announce her way forward. She may have a plan for the deal falling, she may seek cabinet advice, she may summon all the leaders for cross party talks, she may resign and many other options

    BBC saying their is cross party alliance growing between conservatives, labour, lib dems, snp and others to try to put in place a new approach, no doubt Norway plus

    Seems Norway is becoming a cross party position and looks more likely by the day
    Whilst you are right that there seems to be some momentum towards a Norway-ish endpoint, I'm puzzled as to how this actually helps. That certainly can't be negotiated in a hurry, not least because it requires the unanimous consent of 31 countries, but also because there would be a load of detail to discuss (voting rights, possible customs union, payments etc). In any case the EU won't start talking about it in detail until we get into the transition period, so we'd still have the withdrawal agreement to sign, and therefore we'd still have the backstop.

    The only way in which I can see it helping is by giving MPs an excuse to switch to supporting what Theresa May's team have negotiated on the withdrawal agreement. As such, it might be helpful, but it would be a hell of a kick in the teeth for people who voted Leave because they didn't like free movement, or indeed the EU running much of our law with us having no say.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1068168429415424001
    She is a fake, self-ordained vicar. The BBC cannot be trusted with the Brexit Debate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
    There is a big reason that May will not want to widen the remit - if she wins the debate she is more likely to eventually get her deal through and I cannot see a Corbyn winning as he is exceptionally poor on detail. If the debate is widened - then Corbyn can use his grand slogans, and vague promises to land more blows.

    IMO I don’t see why the debate should be widened if the debate is about the deal. It would be a big risk for Corbyn as he will have to argue the case for something he doesn’t believe for an hour.
    I don't really see the point of the debate at all really. The two party's positions are 'negotiate a new deal' and 'this deal' (for now anyway), it's not exactly a broad spectrum, and presumably they'd spend a lot of time trying to trap the other into coming down to backing hard deal or remain if their own way cannot be had. May at least has the benefit of getting some number of people to hear her sell the deal against someone who at least in theory also wants a deal, but there's literally no benefit to Corbyn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Doesn't it mean she gets five adjacent seats?
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
    Here in Wales it was not hand picked when she attended a farmers market and I was really surprised how much support she had from ordinary voters. Also in Northern Ireland and that is reflecting in her poll approval

    As far as the debate is concerned Corbyn would be facing the same panel and twitter

    But as so much with brexit everyone is falling out with everyone and it does sadden me

    The cross party move to supplant the deal with Norway could just unlock the deadlock with good support in the HOC already and of course it prevents a horrible divisive referendum

    Of course it has a problem with FOM but I do not have that problem
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
    There is a big reason that May will not want to widen the remit - if she wins the debate she is more likely to eventually get her deal through and I cannot see a Corbyn winning as he is exceptionally poor on detail. If the debate is widened - then Corbyn can use his grand slogans, and vague promises to land more blows.

    IMO I don’t see why the debate should be widened if the debate is about the deal. It would be a big risk for Corbyn as he will have to argue the case for something he doesn’t believe for an hour.
    I don't really see the point of the debate at all really. The two party's positions are 'negotiate a new deal' and 'this deal' (for now anyway), it's not exactly a broad spectrum, and presumably they'd spend a lot of time trying to trap the other into coming down to backing hard deal or remain if their own way cannot be had. May at least has the benefit of getting some number of people to hear her sell the deal against someone who at least in theory also wants a deal, but there's literally no benefit to Corbyn.
    Describing Labour as "having a position" is way too complimentary. Margaret Beckett from Labour's NEC was on R4 just now and dodged every single question about both her own views and the party's, simply slagging off the PM for the entire interview.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    This leaking of a draft unilateral way out of the backstop is dynamite. How can May hold the line if Olly Robbins had something drafted mid negotiations ? It's almost designed to offer credibility to the ERG loons. ' We'll swallow the WA if you get *that* into it '. It legitimises voting the deal down on the 11th on a ' come back when you've got this ' basis. It's a leak almost designed to make May's life as difficult as possible and timed just as she was getting a bit of momentum. How convenient.

    It is certainly fuckmuppetery of the highest order.

    "Don't intoduce it - it might slow up the process..."

    And losing the vote by 192 votes because of its absence is putting turbo-boosters under the process how, exactly?

  • As was pointed out below, the TV debate is Brexit.

    PREMISE: Lets debate each other on TV head to head
    1st ARGUMENT: lots of other politicians want in. NO - must be head to head
    2nd ARGUMENT: lets get lots of punters in. So that people can ask us questions in our head to head
    3rd ARGUMENT: Sky News laid down the challenge to us. So lets argue about whether its BBC or ITV
    4th ARGUMENT: What time is best Lets go before I'm a Celebrity
    At which point the purpose of the exercise is long forgotten

    Neither politician should do this debate. May is convinced that if she takes her fabulous deal to the people everyone will Love Her and back it and then she can get on with being Prime Minister until 2042. Corbyn is convinced that if he mentions austerity and food banks everyone will forget about Brexit and focus on the real National Emergency (that he isn't Prime Minister)

    Both are going to fall flat on their face. Nothing that May can do disguises that this deal is a shit sandwich and she is demeaning herself and her office by begging. Nothing that Corbyn can do disguises that he has no alternative plan for Brexit.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1068168429415424001
    She is a fake, self-ordained vicar. The BBC cannot be trusted with the Brexit Debate.
    Evangelicals mostly don't set much store by ordination. If you're called by the Holy Spirit to minister to a congregation, you don't need to be ordained by a bishop.
  • I can't think of a more suitably tawdry end to the Brexit fiasco than May and Corbyn fighting over which of the two main broadcssters' Reality TV shows will be gazumped by a mass debate.

    If the Sceptred Isle is destroyed by an asteroid strike 5 minutes before Brexit we will frankly deserve it.

    My grandchildren wont
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,909


    At times I do find responses puzzling. Sky were mapping out Corbyn as PM by Xmas and you think Corbyn should not have his ambiguity challenged. Everyone knows TM position so you want Corbyn to be shielded

    I'm no supporter of Corbyn but there are a variety of opinions against the Deal for a variety of reasons. Corbyn isn't wholly representative of anti-Deal opinion (he doesn't represent me for example).

    As for Corbyn becoming PM by Christmas, how? Seriously, how? Unless the Tories are immeasurably more stupid than even I believe, they won't vote for a GE and with 315 seats, they aren't going to voluntarily step away from power.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    In the last few days Theresa May not only banned the"National" newspaper from a press conference, but she also banned the "Camden New Journal" from NHS premises in Camden. She does not like scrutiny.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    Theresa May proposed a head to head debate with Jeremy and is now trying to wiggle out of it.

    That is not a head-to-head debate, that's a job interview for the people's commissar for tractor statistics.

    If May is now scared of debating yer man Jez head on, then why in the name of ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY did she challenge him to one?
    I do not understand your point and there is no need to shout

    She has agreed a one on one on BBC - it is upto Corbyn to accept
    Her own propaganda unit, how obvious can she be. Looking for an easy ride.
    It was the BBC who put the format to her and she accepted. It is not her format
    G, All I can see is her always avoiding scrutiny , it is always hand picked audience , menu of pre-approved questions etc. Exceedingly poor and just highlights how poor she is.
    There is a big reason that May will not want to widen the remit - if she wins the debate she is more likely to eventually get her deal through and I cannot see a Corbyn winning as he is exceptionally poor on detail. If the debate is widened - then Corbyn can use his grand slogans, and vague promises to land more blows.

    IMO I don’t see why the debate should be widened if the debate is about the deal. It would be a big risk for Corbyn as he will have to argue the case for something he doesn’t believe for an hour.
    I don't really see theto Corbyn.
    Describing Labour as "having a position" is way too complimentary. Margaret Beckett from Labour's NEC was on R4 just now and dodged every single question about both her own views and the party's, simply slagging off the PM for the entire interview.
    The position is not realistic, and ignores they would have their own unity issues were they actually trying to negotiate, but it is technically a position practically all or literally all are sticking to. And the more hollow a position it is the more there is no reason for Corbyn to allow that to be pointed out in a debate.
  • To be serious for a moment a Corbyn/May head to head is a democratic outrage. Two ' releavers ' , two opponents of a second referendum, two opponents of SM membership, two English people. Deliberately excluding no and new dealers, Norways and People's Voters is outrageous. It's not national broadcasters job to jump whenever the PM of the day day's " here's my frame, please rescue me. "

    Everything possible should be done to resist and if need be delegitimise this ghastly format.
  • Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1068168429415424001
    She is a fake, self-ordained vicar. The BBC cannot be trusted with the Brexit Debate.
    And "fake, self ordained vicars" (your words) can't be members of the public too?

    Why not? Or are only Labour Party activists acceptable as "members of the public"?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    kle4 said:

    Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Sounds unprofessional, but this is a national story? Mum gets upset?
    It's an international story: the woman is American and this happened in America.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV

    That is labour's policy right there.

    She is scared to meet the people!
    Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.

    Maybe your bias showing
    She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
  • As was pointed out below, the TV debate is Brexit.

    PREMISE: Lets debate each other on TV head to head
    1st ARGUMENT: lots of other politicians want in. NO - must be head to head
    2nd ARGUMENT: lets get lots of punters in. So that people can ask us questions in our head to head
    3rd ARGUMENT: Sky News laid down the challenge to us. So lets argue about whether its BBC or ITV
    4th ARGUMENT: What time is best Lets go before I'm a Celebrity
    At which point the purpose of the exercise is long forgotten

    Neither politician should do this debate. May is convinced that if she takes her fabulous deal to the people everyone will Love Her and back it and then she can get on with being Prime Minister until 2042. Corbyn is convinced that if he mentions austerity and food banks everyone will forget about Brexit and focus on the real National Emergency (that he isn't Prime Minister)

    Both are going to fall flat on their face. Nothing that May can do disguises that this deal is a shit sandwich and she is demeaning herself and her office by begging. Nothing that Corbyn can do disguises that he has no alternative plan for Brexit.

    Sounds like you want some form of sensorship to be fair. If they fall on their faces so be it
  • Anorak said:

    This is all the airlines fault. ALL OF IT.
    https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1068157310030221313

    Somehow, and this is somewhat crazy, I think she's a friend of a friend. All checks out - mate posted the name ca. 5 years ago and, well, laughed at it.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Maybe the BBC could get an actor to play Jeremy Corbyn?

    They had an actress on Newsnight claiming to be a vicar who supported Theresa May.
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1068168429415424001
    She is a fake, self-ordained vicar. The BBC cannot be trusted with the Brexit Debate.
    And "fake, self ordained vicars" (your words) can't be members of the public too?

    Why not? Or are only Labour Party activists acceptable as "members of the public"?
    When Newsnight said she was a vicar that suggests COfE, not some loony sect with one member. All very misleading at best.
This discussion has been closed.