politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile the approval rating of the EU leadership by UK voter
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+1TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
It's about time the people felt the cold hard smack of What They Asked For.0 -
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
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A no deal crash out followed by our burning husk of an economy heading through the full accession procedure would at least comprehensively punish both sets of headbangers.grabcocque said:
The EU if they were being mean would force us to go through the full accession procedure.Mortimer said:
No deal (combined with our legislation) almost certainly precludes short term rejoin - so I don’t see the steps to a second referendum.Pulpstar said:
No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)0 -
Spot on. I think, as ever, cock-up is more likely than conspiracy!Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm not sure, I think the vote might be lost because of stupid miscalculations on both sides - you see here some people still clinging to the myth that there's some better deal available, and plenty of Brexiteers who have convinced themselves that crashing out without any deal would mean a painless transition to WTO terms with no economic catastrophe in the meantime.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)0 -
As a feat of political engineering it's truly impressive to construct an edifice that can be simultaneously all things to everyone and nothing to anyone.Scrapheap_as_was said:I was intrigued at Starmer's reaction throughout the PMs statement - he wasn't shaking his head, posturing etc as she went but genuinely seemed to be listening rather than the normal panto reactions....
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But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
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Amazed to see the Greig-edited Mail criticising the ERG for being, and I quote, "pale, male and stale". Not only is that a coinage of the decidedly Mail-hostile identity politics brigade, it also characterises much of the Mail's own readership.0
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May is doomed to be reviled on all sides, by leavers for failing to deliver their unicorns and by remainers for pretending she could do so. She will cut a sad and lonely figure in retirement I fear.Richard_Nabavi said:
For the avoidance of doubt, I have zero attachment to Mrs May, I think she's a dreadfully poor leader. That doesn't make her wrong on this point, not does it mean that anyone else could have bamboozled the EU into a better deal - in fact, I think by her obstinacy she's actually done OK.grabcocque said:
There's no deal, there's an A50 extension and Norway4Now, there's a Labour BRINO, there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal. There's Super-remain. There's remain--. There's getting rid of May, apologizing to the EU for wasting their and our time for two years on her incompetence and dishonesty and restarting the whole process, in good faith, this time not under the control of a useless, dishonest and pointless waste of space.Richard_Nabavi said:
What other possibilities are there?grabcocque said:
There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
There are so many possibilities for you as a saboteur to undermine Brexit properly. You just have to let go of your frankly untenable attachment to May.0 -
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
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What really gets my goat is the "people voted for" brigade.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.
52% of the people voted to leave: we are leaving. Of that 52%, there were a whole raft of reasons and motivations. Significant chunks of the leave side, including Farrage, Bannks and Hannan, campaigned for staying in the single market. Yet now, suddenly, anything but total isolation brexit is a betrayal?
What's particularly galling is how few of our MPs take the time to educate themselves about what such a complex deal entails, frequently confusing transition deal elements with permanence.
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As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.0 -
Very probably. That doesn't make her wrong.anothernick said:May is doomed to be reviled on all sides, by leavers for failing to deliver their unicorns and by remainers for pretending she could do so. She will cut a sad and lonely figure in retirement I fear.
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That's pretty rich coming from the #1 supporter of the establishment's lumbering attempts to lock the UK in perpetuity to BRINO vassalage.Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
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No, the fact that she's wrong makes her wrong.Richard_Nabavi said:
Very probably. That doesn't make her wrong.anothernick said:May is doomed to be reviled on all sides, by leavers for failing to deliver their unicorns and by remainers for pretending she could do so. She will cut a sad and lonely figure in retirement I fear.
Hilarious, profoundly, deeply, terribly wrong.
And incompetent.
And dishonest.
And thick.0 -
looks modest #1? Me, really? You are too kind, Mr Cocquegrabcocque said:That's pretty rich coming from the #1 supporter of the establishment's lumbering attempts to lock the UK in perpetuity to BRINO vassalage.
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88 - Gordon Henderson
Over 50% of Tory backbenchers are now out and proud Noes.0 -
May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
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The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.0 -
Seriously I can't believe people keep writing this nonsense. We voted to leave, we have a deal that means we leave. Politicians should not go against the referendum result.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.0 -
On here, not in the world. You're no Olly Robbins, don't start getting all soppy on me.Richard_Nabavi said:
looks modest #1? Me, really? You are too kind, Mr Cocquegrabcocque said:That's pretty rich coming from the #1 supporter of the establishment's lumbering attempts to lock the UK in perpetuity to BRINO vassalage.
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Watching all these technical Qs to TMay and trying to imagine how some of her predecessors would have coped in these circumstances and if they would have such a detailed understanding of these matters.0
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Steve Baker complaining about this text:
"Where a party fails to take measures necessary to comply with the binding resolution of a dispute within a reasonable period of time, the other Party would be entitled to request financial compensation or take proportionate and temporary measures, including suspension of its obligations within the scope of the future relationship.
What planet is he on if he thinks any trade agreement would not have similar dispute resolution clauses?0 -
If the DUP prefer the pre-2016 status quo then they know what to do. Give the people of NI what 56% of them voted for.
The problem is that the meme of "betrayal" clanging about in loyalists' heads can confuse their judgement even when they have sight of a big pile of money.0 -
"Oh hello yes, we're the government, and we think you're too thick to really understand the question we asked you the first time. Think carefully this time, you thickie! ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE?"Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.0 -
Hmm. It's actually got a rather heavily feminised readership for a newspaper.El_Capitano said:Amazed to see the Greig-edited Mail criticising the ERG for being, and I quote, "pale, male and stale". Not only is that a coinage of the decidedly Mail-hostile identity politics brigade, it also characterises much of the Mail's own readership.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/380710/daily-mail-the-mail-on-sunday-monthly-reach-by-demographic-uk/0 -
Another fine example:Benpointer said:Steve Baker complaining about this text:
"Where a party fails to take measures necessary to comply with the binding resolution of a dispute within a reasonable period of time, the other Party would be entitled to request financial compensation or take proportionate and temporary measures, including suspension of its obligations within the scope of the future relationship.
What planet is he on if he thinks any trade agreement would not have similar dispute resolution clauses?
Kate Hoey, the Labour Brexiter, says there is no need for the backstop to be in a legal agreement.0 -
The most worrying part to me of the lot is that @grabcocque is seemingly the manifestation of the collective will of parliament right now.0
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It is astonishing how much detailed knowledge she has. Steve Baker asked a question and she responded with chapter and verse rebutting itScrapheap_as_was said:Watching all these technical Qs to TMay and trying to imagine how some of her predecessors would have coped in these circumstances and if they would have such a detailed understanding of these matters.
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Isn't the EU leadership in the UK Theresa May? At least for the time being.0
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I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
They will do it, I think. The moment May tries to move a meaningful vote, the DUP will end the C&S deal. Meaning that whilst trying to put together a path out of the woods once her party marmalises her shitty deal, she'll also be trying to fight off the motions of no confidence Labour will be moving, to keep her on her toes.Notch said:If the DUP prefer the pre-2016 status quo then they know what to do.
The problem is that the meme of "betrayal" clanging about in loyalists' heads can confuse their judgement even when they have sight of a big pile of money.0 -
I think they mean approval in the UK for the leadership of the EU (whatever that means).David_Evershed said:Isn't the EU leadership in the UK Theresa May? At least for the time being.
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If you are so sure that is how the public will see it, then why are you clearly terrified of a 2nd vote?grabcocque said:
"Oh hello yes, we're the government, and we think you're too thick to really understand the question we asked you the first time. Think carefully this time, you thickie! ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE?"Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.
It should be a Leave landslide.0 -
How many times is it necessary to point out that the 'will' was only that of just over half of the people.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
Not even that, if you count those who didn't bother voting.logical_song said:
How many times is it necessary to point out that the 'will' was only that of just over half of the people.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
A slight edit to your post above, Logical.logical_song said:
How many times is it necessary to point out that the 'will' was only that of just over half of the people that actually voted.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
That question seems to be a bit loaded.Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.0 -
Obsessives failing to see the bigger picture should not be a surprise.0
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Accidental No Deal is still Brexit. It will accord with the will of the people.currystar said:
Seriously I can't believe people keep writing this nonsense. We voted to leave, we have a deal that means we leave. Politicians should not go against the referendum result.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
And the will of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
You're both masochists (by proxy).grabcocque said:
+1TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
It's about time the people felt the cold hard smack of What They Asked For.0 -
I'm not terrified of a public vote. I just don't think it's the electorate's job to save Parliament from their own incompetence. They have their instructions, the fact that they are too dysfunctional to implement them isn't my problem.rottenborough said:
If you are so sure that is he the public will see it, then why are you clearly terrified of a 2nd vote?grabcocque said:
"Oh hello yes, we're the government, and we think you're too thick to really understand the question we asked you the first time. Think carefully this time, you thickie! ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE?"Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.
It should a Leave landslide.
It sets a bad precedent. They work for us, not vice versa. But we're being called in to resolve their fuckups? I do not approve.0 -
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
0 -
It all probably went over the quarterwit Baker's head, but credit to TM for knowing it in any case.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is astonishing how much detailed knowledge she has. Steve Baker asked a question and she responded with chapter and verse rebutting itScrapheap_as_was said:Watching all these technical Qs to TMay and trying to imagine how some of her predecessors would have coped in these circumstances and if they would have such a detailed understanding of these matters.
0 -
Yes, the collective imbecility of this rabble is a chastening sight.Richard_Nabavi said:
Another fine example:Benpointer said:Steve Baker complaining about this text:
"Where a party fails to take measures necessary to comply with the binding resolution of a dispute within a reasonable period of time, the other Party would be entitled to request financial compensation or take proportionate and temporary measures, including suspension of its obligations within the scope of the future relationship.
What planet is he on if he thinks any trade agreement would not have similar dispute resolution clauses?
Kate Hoey, the Labour Brexiter, says there is no need for the backstop to be in a legal agreement.0 -
Why the public shouldn't be trusted to be asked about anything...
Demand for Aldi's new merchandise sparks crushing queues and even FIGHTS in stores as shoppers grapple to snap up the toys
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6418089/Aldis-Christmas-hero-Kevin-Carrot-sells-hours-shoppers.html0 -
Indeed. Does she understand the meaning of the word agreement?!Richard_Nabavi said:
Another fine example:Benpointer said:Steve Baker complaining about this text:
"Where a party fails to take measures necessary to comply with the binding resolution of a dispute within a reasonable period of time, the other Party would be entitled to request financial compensation or take proportionate and temporary measures, including suspension of its obligations within the scope of the future relationship.
What planet is he on if he thinks any trade agreement would not have similar dispute resolution clauses?
Kate Hoey, the Labour Brexiter, says there is no need for the backstop to be in a legal agreement.0 -
It is also more likely to end in rejoin. Which I'm sure is not what Leavers had in mind.MarqueeMark said:
Accidental No Deal is still Brexit. It will accord with the will of the people.currystar said:
Seriously I can't believe people keep writing this nonsense. We voted to leave, we have a deal that means we leave. Politicians should not go against the referendum result.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
And the will of Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
-
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.0 -
I'd rather voters think policies were a bit naff than think democracy was a bit naff.logical_song said:
You're both masochists (by proxy).grabcocque said:
+1TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
It's about time the people felt the cold hard smack of What They Asked For.
There were two opportunities for the voters to ensure that No Deal wouldn't happen, by voting Remain in 2016 or Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP and others in 2017.0 -
I think that is right. Despite the personal problems Brexit causes for me I was happy to respect the result. After the utter nonsense of the past week I now look forward to Britain never leaving the EU and giving all the credit to the ERG.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.0 -
The majority of anti deal seem to think this should have been the deal itself and do not recognise the process.matt said:Obsessives failing to see the bigger picture should not be a surprise.
Also on full view were the two extremes attacking the deal from polar opposites, each with an agenda for no deal or remain
Impossible to square the circle but this time next year the ERG will be crying into their beer as their dream of Brexit, which they once had, disappears into oblivion.0 -
That was the thread I nearly wrote last weekend.felix said:I think that is right. Despite the personal problems Brexit causes for me I was happy to respect the result. After the utter nonsense of the past week I now look forward to Britain never leaving the EU and giving all the credit to the ERG.
I do fear violence on the street if Brexit isn't delivered though, especially with UKIP now being the political wing of the EDL.0 -
Ah, thank-you. And does the govenment have to take any notice of a meaningful vote? I.e. could they just say "yeah, thanks for that but we're going to sign the deal anyway"?grabcocque said:
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.0 -
Government by referendum is a stupid idea, but this is apparently where we are. We asked the people, we told them what would happen, and the daft fuckers wanted it anyway.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd rather voters think policies were a bit naff than think democracy was a bit naff.logical_song said:
You're both masochists (by proxy).grabcocque said:
+1TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
It's about time the people felt the cold hard smack of What They Asked For.
There were two opportunities for the voters to ensure that No Deal wouldn't happen, by voting Remain in 2016 or Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP and others in 2017.
So we should give it to them.
Oh how we should give it to them.
Drink deep, for your suffering tastes of democracy.0 -
Migration is a sub set of taking back control of laws from the EU.rottenborough said:Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'
Utter tosh.
Migration was the top issue by a country mile.0 -
I for once promise to happy slap any gammon that I meet.TheScreamingEagles said:
That was the thread I nearly wrote last weekend.felix said:I think that is right. Despite the personal problems Brexit causes for me I was happy to respect the result. After the utter nonsense of the past week I now look forward to Britain never leaving the EU and giving all the credit to the ERG.
I do fear violence on the street if Brexit isn't delivered though, especially with UKIP being the political wing of the EDL.0 -
My biggest criticism of May throughout the entire negotiation process is her belief that by running out the clock she could get parliament to agree to any deal she put forward. For that reasoning alone she deserves to fail.0
-
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.0 -
No, the act is very clear that the Meaningful Vote must pass before the government can ratify the deal. So if the MV fails, the legislation providing for it just sort of gets stuck.Benpointer said:
Ah, thank-you. And does the govenment have to take any notice of a meaningful vote? I.e. could they just say "yeah, thanks for that but we're going to sign the deal anyway"?grabcocque said:
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.0 -
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.0 -
Trouble is, she fails - we all pay the price.AllyPally_Rob said:My biggest criticism of May throughout the entire negotiation process is her belief that by running out the clock she could get parliament to agree to any deal she put forward. For that reasoning alone she deserves to fail.
0 -
Blair caused most of the problems were dealing with nowBenpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.0 -
Ok thanks once again.grabcocque said:
No, the act is very clear that the Meaningful Vote must pass before the government can ratify the deal. So if the MV fails, the legislation providing for it just sort of gets stuck.Benpointer said:
Ah, thank-you. And does the govenment have to take any notice of a meaningful vote? I.e. could they just say "yeah, thanks for that but we're going to sign the deal anyway"?grabcocque said:
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.0 -
Big demo planned in Paris on Saturday aginst Macrons fule increases
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/11/22/01016-20181122ARTFIG00224-toute-la-france-a-paris-samedi-la-mobilisation-desorganisee-des-gilets-jaunes.php0 -
Nobody got harmed during Blair's reign.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
Nobody we know or care about anyway.0 -
You can't increase fuleAlanbrooke said:Big demo planned in Paris on Saturday aginst Macrons fule increases
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/11/22/01016-20181122ARTFIG00224-toute-la-france-a-paris-samedi-la-mobilisation-desorganisee-des-gilets-jaunes.php
as any fule kno0 -
So an amended Meaningful Vote does not make a law.grabcocque said:
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.0 -
Nonsense isn't limited to one side, mind:
Paul Williams, a Labour MP and GP, says patients will be worse off under Brexit. As members of the EU, patients get early access to drugs because the UK is part of the European Medicines Agency. But he says the document just talks about the possibility of cooperating with the EMA.0 -
-
The country = UK in my comment, clearly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
Given that most people appear to be weary of Brexit and just want the politicians to sort something out, I doubt that they could be motivated to violence. Most people just do not care.TheScreamingEagles said:
That was the thread I nearly wrote last weekend.felix said:I think that is right. Despite the personal problems Brexit causes for me I was happy to respect the result. After the utter nonsense of the past week I now look forward to Britain never leaving the EU and giving all the credit to the ERG.
I do fear violence on the street if Brexit isn't delivered though, especially with UKIP now being the political wing of the EDL.
It is always those on the extremes who threaten violence if they fail to get their way. They are usually called terrorists.0 -
Not sure I believe that statement.williamglenn said:0 -
Let them burn cake.Alanbrooke said:Big demo planned in Paris on Saturday aginst Macrons fule increases
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/11/22/01016-20181122ARTFIG00224-toute-la-france-a-paris-samedi-la-mobilisation-desorganisee-des-gilets-jaunes.php0 -
Like he did with his brilliant negotiation on Maggie's rebate, giving away half of it for... err.. well... err..Benpointer said:The country = UK in my comment, clearly.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
In exchange for looking into the possibility of revising somewhat the Common Agricultural Policy.Richard_Nabavi said:
Like he did with his brilliant negotiation on Maggie's rebate, giving away half of it for... err.. well... err..Benpointer said:The country = UK in my comment, clearly.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
Remember when she said no snap election, many many times.williamglenn said:0 -
20 March 2017: "There will be no early general election, Downing Street says"williamglenn said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/early-general-election-may-2017-theresa-may-article-50-brexit-negotiations-labour-polls-a7639246.html0 -
Which is why a hard Brexit would be almost as unrepresentative as no Brexitlogical_song said:
How many times is it necessary to point out that the 'will' was only that of just over half of the people.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am afraid that if the idiocy of these hard Brexit purists leads to a reversal of the referendum result - as is very likely - it is you and these Tory backbenchers who will be responsible for frustrating the will of the people.grabcocque said:
That's because it isn't a reasonable deal.currystar said:
Exactly, how these idiots asking questions think they could do any better is beyond me. We voted to leave, she has come up with a reasonable deal which should see minimum disruption, yet these fucking MPs all seem to want to stop it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
If it were reasonable, she'd be able to convince anyone whose job didn't depend on voting for it.
I understand you guys, I really do.
Nabavi, Big G, Carlotta... Y'all thought that as saboteurs, May was going to lead us to the BRINO promised land.
But... you miscalculated. You underestimated May's total lack of talent for any of the skills required to pull this off. And now you're left holding a deal nobody wants, defending a failed husk of a PM, and all around you opposition to this deal is growing by the day.
But there is still a way out for you. Let May go, she's no longer useful to you saboteurs as a going concern. You wanna frustrate the will of the people, it's time to start thinking bigger.0 -
The final text of the act says that a minister of the crown must move a motion in neutral terms, to the effect that the House of Commons has considered the matter of the statement mentioned in subsection. This seems to be a one-time thing.David_Evershed said:
So an amended Meaningful Vote does not make a law.grabcocque said:
For public bills, if they're voted down at second or third reading, they can't be reintroduced in the same parliamentary session.Benpointer said:
Is there not some paliamentary convention that prevents a measure that has been voted down from being re-presented in the same parliament?DanSmith said:May's deal gets voted down, everyone tries to get their alternative to happen. If they can find a majority in parliament, bob's your uncle, but if they fail, another vote in Jan/Feb on May's deal where it really is a case of Deal or No Deal would see it through Parliament pretty easily.
But: this isn't a bill, this is a Meaningful Vote, and the legislation that provides for it unhelpfully says nothing about what should happen next should the vote fail to carry.
It doesn't provide for the government to ask the House to keep voting until it gets the correct answer.0 -
Bollox. The government and the rest of us have learned a whole heap of new information. In the light of that it is perfectly normal to think again.grabcocque said:
"Oh hello yes, we're the government, and we think you're too thick to really understand the question we asked you the first time. Think carefully this time, you thickie! ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE?"Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.
If you put a deposit on a car and get it inspected by the AA and they find the engine knackered, most people walk away. Brexiteers are like salesman trying to secure the sale of a total pup.0 -
I don't think he could have done, because he is so opposed.Benpointer said:
The country = UK in my comment, clearly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
Rule 1: May liesrottenborough said:
Not sure I believe that statement.williamglenn said:
Rule 2: ...badly0 -
Well yes as the only route to a new referendum is following Parliament rejecting her deal.williamglenn said:
She can't continue as PM if her deal is rejected as it's basically a vote of no confidence in her leadership.0 -
Mr cocque,
"We asked the people, we told them what would happen, and the daft fuckers wanted it anyway. So we should give it to them."
Unfortunately, what is happening is "We don't need to ask the people because we know better. We'd have got away with it if it hadn't been for those pesky voters in a referendum which should never have been allowed to happen." That's a rough approximation of the stated LD policy position, but it fits many MPs.0 -
You mean when he gave away Thatcher's rebate for SFA?Benpointer said:
The country = UK in my comment, clearly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
If she removes this as an option, then she will have to come up with some other reason to extend A50 when the HoC rejects her deal. The EU seem to be saying only a GE or a new ref would be sufficient conditions for them to allow an extension, now it has been triggered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Remember when she said no snap election, many many times.williamglenn said:
Triggering A50 before she flushed out how many purist loons, who would reduce the country to a wreck for their unicorn hunt, there were on her own backbench is now looking even more stupid.0 -
Dr Kelly?grabcocque said:
Nobody got harmed during Blair's reign.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
Nobody we know or care about anyway.0 -
We haven't learned any new information. The full horrific economic and human cost of a hard brexit was explained *in excruciating detail* by the Remain camp before the referendum, and the great unhosed still want it.Jonathan said:
Bollox. The government and the rest of us have learned a whole heap of new information. In the light of that it is perfectly normal to think again.grabcocque said:
"Oh hello yes, we're the government, and we think you're too thick to really understand the question we asked you the first time. Think carefully this time, you thickie! ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE?"Jonathan said:
The most respectful outcome is to ask the public, "we have discovered that can only exit the EU with significant economic or democratic cost. Do you still want to do it?"Richard_Nabavi said:
It does if you either want us to leave the EU, or want to respect the result of the referendum.Jonathan said:
But that does not mean that we should do it.Richard_Nabavi said:
Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.Jonathan said:
Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.Richard_Nabavi said:
So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.Jonathan said:I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
The referendum was about taking back control, the deal does the opposite of that and therefore does not respect the result.
A second vote gives control back to the public.
If you put a deposit on a car and get it inspected by the AA and they find the engine knackered, most people walk away. Brexiteers are like salesman trying to secure the sale of a total pup.
And no, "I listened to David Davis because I am a very stupid man" will also not get me to take pity on you.
The electorate made their Hard Brexit bed, let them lie in it.0 -
That was the fault of the BBC.GIN1138 said:
Dr Kelly?
Have you forgotten about the brilliant Hutton inquiry?0 -
the man who got taken to the cleaners by Chirac ? LOLBenpointer said:
The country = UK in my comment, clearly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.0 -
Someone is very sure Boris will not be the next Tory leader as they are laying £80,000 on Betfair at 9 on that event not occurring.0
-
You know, enough time has passed between now and the Blair era that I sometimes struggle to remember what was real and what was Malcolm Tucker.TheScreamingEagles said:
That was the fault of the BBC.GIN1138 said:
Dr Kelly?
Have you forgotten about the brilliant Hutton inquiry?0 -
You are obviously not very well versed in the UK rebate history. Here's a little easy primer for you:TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean when he gave away Thatcher's rebate for SFA?Benpointer said:
The country = UK in my comment, clearly.TheScreamingEagles said:
Unless you were an Iraqi.Benpointer said:
Now you've just reminded me how well run the country was while Blair was PM compared with the fucking mess Cameron and May have made of it.TheScreamingEagles said:
The voters were warned.Benpointer said:
As a democrat, you shouldn't be happy with a No Deal crash because that is supported only by a very small percentage of our democratically elected representatives.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.Sean_Fear said:
Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.Jonathan said:I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May
Do my deal or
1) No deal is inevitable*
2) No Brexit is inevitable*
(delete whichever you fear least)
So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.
Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
Accidental No Deal is a real danger but it would not be 'democratic'.
Is like when the Tories warned about Demon Eyes Blair, given the number of dead brown people on his watch and the GFC, we were right, but the voters voted for him anyway.
We eventually overturned it when we were proven right.
The Iraq war was a massive mistake and Blair's reputation was irretrievably tarnished as a result...
...but he'd still have made a much better fist of Brexit than Cameron/May have done - by a country mile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate0 -
Probably Charles. I have always suspected he lights the fire using £50 noteseek said:Someone is very sure Boris will not be the next Tory leader as they are laying £80,000 on Betfair at 9 on that event not occurring.
0 -
This discussion has been closed.