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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile the approval rating of the EU leadership by UK voter

SystemSystem Posts: 12,144
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile the approval rating of the EU leadership by UK voters is at a record high

Since it stopped carrying out voting surveys for the Telegraph after the 2001 general election Gallup has not really been a force in British political polling. This was the firm, of course, that really started the business and on which so much has been based.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    He has just moved votes to the deal
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83

    The GFC seems to have been the watershed.

    Both approval and disapproval have risen by 8% since then.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,228
    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    TM assured as ever and drowning Corbyn in detail
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018
    86 and 87

    Bob Stewart: "I will be highly likely to vote against Mrs May’s deal"
    Rob Halfon: "I do not believe the Prime Minister's deal as it stands fulfils what people have voted for"

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1065623828653621249
    We can do it, guys, the big 100 by the weekend.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Ha! Corbyn says “Chequers has been chucked”.

    Isn't that what he wanted? It's certainly what Tory rebels wanted.

    (It's even partially true, in that what is being proposed seems to be slightly looser and less cumbersome than Chequers.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    FPT +1
    rottenborough said:

    AEP this morning, basically saying May's deal is a complete disaster.

    But that,

    "My working assumption is that a bloc of Labour MPs will support Theresa May’s package and push it over the top in December."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/11/21/theresa-mays-culpable-naivety-means-explosive-brexit-showdown/

    That's fantastic. How could anyone not vote for it now? Success is nailed on.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    If May really wants the vote to pass she needs to get Eddie Izzard to say he's against it.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    Anorak said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
    I am not sure my liver is up to a Jean-Claude Juncker day. Maybe we could give him a couple of hours?
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    This has to be a reflection of the complete failure of the British Gov to handle the negotiations professionally or competently rather than anything else. The EU have highlighted a complete failure of British statecraft as the U.K. Gov has cravenly sought a deal at any price.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    grabcocque said:

    If May really wants the vote to pass she needs to get Eddie Izzard to say he's against it.

    I think she already has Lord Adonis and AEP against. Surely that is enough?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    oxfordsimon said:

    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83
    DavidL said:

    Anorak said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Yes everyone had such high regard for Juncker...

    Maybe we should have a national Jean-Cluade Juncker Day? :D

    Trebles all round?
    I am not sure my liver is up to a Jean-Claude Juncker day. Maybe we could give him a couple of hours?
    I wonder who would win a contest between Jean Claude Juncker and Edward VII.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    grabcocque said:

    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    And some of them will resign to vote against.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
    Yes - but you would have hoped for a forensic analysis - but you never get that from him
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    grabcocque said:

    Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    Most of the country, then.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    Also, she's forgotten about the implicit seventh, "we just don't want to, ok?" test.
    The tests are designed to be impossible to meet.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    May's had her Weetabix today.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Anorak said:

    grabcocque said:

    Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    Most of the country, then.
    We don't get a vote.

    Well, not yet.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2018
    Bercow called IDS and Cash so far on Tory side.. and now Oklahoma Paterson.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Never in a million cold, dead, desolate years will this horrible bint we call a Prime Minister ever get this Magical Unicorn Withdrawal Agreement through Parliament.
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83
    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    IMHO, there are benefits and costs to leaving the EU, though my view is that the benefits outweigh the costs.

    But, it's certainly not possible to leave and have exactly the same benefits. That's like saying a square is a circle.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    grabcocque said:

    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    I wonder if it will ever get to a vote. It would be a very unusual step for a government to bring forward a flagship policy when it knows it will be defeated by a substantial majority.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    The declared Tories against just hit 87
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
    It was originally a quote from David Davis.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    williamglenn said:

    Slackbladder said:

    Well May has just utterly stuffed the entireity of Corbyns basis of arguements.

    https://twitter.com/jgforsyth/status/1065625920340459525?s=21
    Yes, well, hardly worth measuring a deal against that, is it?
    To anyone who “believes in Brexit” it’s a very reasonable test.
    No, not at all. You can reasonably believe in other benefits that aren't the exact same benefits.
    It was originally a quote from David Davis.
    That's not much of an appeal to authority!
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83
    anothernick said:

    grabcocque said:

    There are, what, 120-ish Tories on the government payroll?

    We seem to rapidly moving towards a situation where pretty much 100% of the Tory backbenches is opposed to the deal.

    That's an *astonishing* failure of May. Literally the only people who support the deal are those whose job depends on it.

    I wonder if it will ever get to a vote. It would be a very unusual step for a government to bring forward a flagship policy when it knows it will be defeated by a substantial majority.
    Yes. The Commons should own any decision that we take in the end, whether it's May's deal, revoking A50, or crashing out.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018
    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    You know, there's an easy way for her to put this to the People, perhaps in some kind of Vote.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    rottenborough said:

    Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.

    Not a chance
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    May seems to be faltering all of sudden. Backstop related detail.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    rottenborough said:

    May seems to be faltering all of sudden. Backstop related detail.

    It's hard for May to put a brave face on the backstop, since it's it the single greatest foreign policy fuckup since Suez and it's hers.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    malcolmg said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh dear. There was talk the other day that SNP might save May's deal in the end.

    Doesn't look like it now.

    Not a chance
    I have no idea who would have thought that but so many on here seem to think they know Scots politics
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1065629835324731393

    Good point.

    Why?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    No - the inevitable consequence
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1065629835324731393

    Good point.

    Why?

    I mean I'm sure he wants to call a Tory backbencher in favour of May's deal.

    A search party has been dispatched.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    rottenborough said:

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    Big_G is correct.

    Keep your diary free in May/June.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Is that a threat or a promise?
    No - the inevitable consequence
    :+1:

    Seems a matter of time to me now. Just a question of when May is forced to pull that trigger.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    edited November 2018
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rottenborough said:

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Jonathan said:

    T

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    No. Perhaps the ERG are actually a bunch of latent remainers though.
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    I think it's far from certain what the outcome of a second referendum would be.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    edited November 2018
    grabcocque said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rottenborough said:

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
    I'll be fine, it'll yield a profit if he becomes leader/PM.

    Plus JohnO gets his peerage and I get my GCMG.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    grabcocque said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rottenborough said:

    Raab: 'top reason people vote leave was take back control of laws.'

    Utter tosh.

    Migration was the top issue by a country mile.

    He's another deluded Leaver.

    Next he'll tell you he's amazed France is geographically close to the UK.
    I want to be there when you find out he's been elected your next leader.

    Also Raab is hot, so I forgive him for being as thick as a brick box set.
    Is Raab C Brexit hot? Really?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    T

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    No. Perhaps the ERG are actually a bunch of latent remainers though.
    I *absolutely* would not be surprised if Bojo flipped and became a People's Vote-r.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Sean_Fear said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    I think it's far from certain what the outcome of a second referendum would be.
    The return of Farage in a big way.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    edited November 2018
    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Jonathan said:

    T

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    I do think she has been single minded to get a deal, put it to the HOC, and if it falls she will open it to the will of the HOC
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    grabcocque said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Slackbladder said:

    May's had her Weetabix today.

    She is certainly trying to take the fight to those who oppose her.

    And with a certain degree of success.
    She is reaching over the heads to the public. She knows they want a deal and are sick of all this.
    The public will view this with horror. They have had enough
    Big G joins the People's Vote team.
    Sink this and a second referendum is inevitable
    Steady on! I thought you were backing the deal.
    I do but if it falls remain becomes inevitable
    Has May been playing for this all along?
    The historians will tell us, or perhaps her memoirs.

    It seems at least as likely that she faced the reality and this is the best that could be done.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited November 2018
    oxfordsimon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Corbyn's ranting tone today looks very ill-judged. No content just rant.

    Isn't that what Corbyn does all the time?
    Yes - but you would have hoped for a forensic analysis - but you never get that from him
    Corbyn has been on the blower, what asked what does forensic mean? He claims he has managed to get to page 10 of the draft withdrawal agreement now. He hopes to get it all read by Christmas...2020.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    I see the disgraced Ian Paisley Junior is back in Parliament.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited November 2018
    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will, let's say for argument's sake, a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I see the disgraced Ian Paisley Junior is back in Parliament.

    Another -1 for the deal.

    Every little helps.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    edited November 2018
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    "I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right."

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    edited November 2018
    CD13 said:

    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will. let's say for argument's sake. a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

    Have you run out of straw?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2018
    Jonathan said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right.

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
    She is right, without question. But you are right that she is useless at bringing people with her.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Grieve's a no on this by sound of it.
  • Sean_FearSean_Fear Posts: 83
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Sean_Fear said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    Exactly
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
    No deal (combined with our legislation) almost certainly precludes short term rejoin - so I don’t see the steps to a second referendum.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    No it's blackmail. It's not clever.

    I am right. Do what I say. I am right. The world will end if you don't. I am right.

    It would have worked if

    1) She was right, she isn't
    2) People didn't really care about this.

    She appeals to the heads of the converted and the hearts of none.
    She is right, without question. But you are right that she is useless at bringing people with her.
    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1065631458822447104?s=21
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Sean_Fear said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    I'm not sure, I think the vote might be lost because of stupid miscalculations on both sides - you see here some people still clinging to the myth that there's some better deal available, and plenty of Brexiteers who have convinced themselves that crashing out without any deal would mean a painless transition to WTO terms with no economic catastrophe in the meantime.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal, there's an A50 extension and Norway4Now, there's a Labour BRINO, there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal. There's Super-remain. There's remain--. There's getting rid of May, apologizing to the EU for wasting their and our time for two years on her incompetence and dishonesty and restarting the whole process, in good faith, this time not under the control of a useless, dishonest and pointless waste of space.

    There are so many possibilities for you as a saboteur to undermine Brexit properly. You just have to let go of your frankly untenable attachment to May.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    Sky hitting out at Bercow for calling a stream of ERG members
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    Sean_Fear said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    That sums it up pretty much. It's a game of chicken.

    Frankly the Brexiteers have the upper hand in theory, as No-Deal is the current default option.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,528
    grabcocque said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1065629835324731393

    Good point.

    Why?

    I mean I'm sure he wants to call a Tory backbencher in favour of May's deal.

    A search party has been dispatched.
    Could it be that he doesn't like the proposed deal and so is quite happy to avoid supporting voices
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    CD13 said:

    It seems the second referendum-ites are getting excited. It's not a "with one bound they were free" solution. What will, let's say for argument's sake, a 52 - 48 result for Remain, going to achieve? Peace in our time?

    To make things worse, a sub-set of Remainers would waste no time rubbing the Leave voters noses' in it. Especially as it would be made clear, there's be no more referenda ever.

    be careful what you wish for.

    A Remain vote would mean the people's will at that point in time was, narrowly, in line with the majority of Parliament.

    The fundamental constitutional problem is that the current leave result is not supported in Parliament.

    It is a f***ing mess.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    "Have you straw?"

    A valid comment in a Panglossian world. As it's you, I know it's firmly tongue in cheek, but seriously, what do you think would happen?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal,
    there's an A50 extension -no there isn't
    and Norway4Now-no there isn't
    , there's a Labour BRINO-no there isn't
    , there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. -no there isn't
    There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal.- no there isn't
    There's Super-remain. No there isn't
    There's remain-no there isn't
    .
    Fixed for you.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
    Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal, there's an A50 extension and Norway4Now, there's a Labour BRINO, there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal. There's Super-remain. There's remain--. There's getting rid of May, apologizing to the EU for wasting their and our time for two years on her incompetence and dishonesty and restarting the whole process, in good faith, this time not under the control of a useless, dishonest and pointless waste of space.

    There are so many possibilities for you as a saboteur to undermine Brexit properly. You just have to let go of your frankly untenable attachment to May.
    For the avoidance of doubt, I have zero attachment to Mrs May, I think she's a dreadfully poor leader. That doesn't make her wrong on this point, not does it mean that anyone else could have bamboozled the EU into a better deal - in fact, I think by her obstinacy she's actually done OK.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    No deal followed by years of chaos followed by another referendum is a possibility.
    No deal (combined with our legislation) almost certainly precludes short term rejoin - so I don’t see the steps to a second referendum.
    The EU if they were being mean would force us to go through the full accession procedure.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I have a major problem with conforming to EU law, without either a say in shaping it or a bulletproof independent way out.

    So do I. Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
    Well quite. But for that reason 'the deal' is a no-no for me.
    Sure, but that doesn't alter the fact that the alternatives are either 'no deal' or cancelling Brexit. What she has come up with is about the best implementation of Brexit attainable.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I was intrigued at Starmer's reaction throughout the PMs statement - he wasn't shaking his head, posturing etc as she went but genuinely seemed to be listening rather than the normal panto reactions....

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Slackbladder said:

    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    grabcocque said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    There are no other possibilities until there are. No deal was better than a bad deal, until it wasn't, and then a bad deal was better than no deal.

    If you believe anything May says at this point, you're a fool.
    What other possibilities are there?
    There's no deal,
    there's an A50 extension -no there isn't
    and Norway4Now-no there isn't
    , there's a Labour BRINO-no there isn't
    , there's May's deal without all the stupid ass backstop bollocks. -no there isn't
    There's a not-quite-no-deal minimal transition deal.- no there isn't
    There's Super-remain. No there isn't
    There's remain-no there isn't
    .
    Fixed for you.
    The reason you guys have ended up in this mess in the first place was because you listened to May's lies. Continuing to believe her bullshit isn't going to help you out again.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    Sean_Fear said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    I am tired of the blackmail arguments from May

    Do my deal or

    1) No deal is inevitable*
    2) No Brexit is inevitable*

    (delete whichever you fear least)

    She's not saying that. She's saying that either of those could easily be the outcome, which is true enough. There are no other possibilities.
    Everything turns on how many Remainers would prefer a crash out Brexit (because it would teach their opponents a lesson) and how many Brexiters would prefer to remain in the EU (because it would punish the traitors on their own side) to any kind of deal.
    I'm a democrat, I respect the will of the people, they voted to Leave despite being warned No Deal was a risk.

    So if this deal fails, then so be it, we crash out next March.

    Not my fault the Leave voters the ignored the excellent advice of experts.
This discussion has been closed.