politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A massive Westminster day ends with TMay still in place
Options
Comments
-
Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.0 -
Is Gove a tosser?Jonathan said:
To the question is, is Gove a tosser?kle4 said:
And yet I bet polls won't back that up, given remaining and no deal still command significant support.KentRising said:The ERG and the plotters have misjudged the mood today. Folks I've spoken to who otherwise take little or no interest in politics have stated their admiration of May and think she should be allowed to get 'the thing done'. They're very fuzzy on the facts of course but the mood seems to be that May is to be supported.
In any case it is MPs she needs to persuade, and we are still waiting to find out if a few more Cabinet Members will quit, so in fact the opposite is occurring as people supposedly on board like Gove are wrestling with tossing it out.
Yes.0 -
It wasn’t necessarily people who also wanted to leave, but admiration for the democratic process.rpjs said:
Interesting given that Ireland has one of the largest approval ratings for membership in the entire EU! You must have been very lucky to meet just Irexiters.Mortimer said:
I’ve never heard this from anyone but Remainer expats.edmundintokyo said:
Can confirmrpjs said:
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.DavidL said:
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.
Last time I went on holiday, to Dublin, unprompted and without knowledge of my position more people expressed admiration for the Leave vote...
No mention of a laughing stock.0 -
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.Richard_Nabavi said:
None. It's just that the year or so while UK manufacturers submit their existing cars for re-approval in the EU might not be terribly conducive to not going bust in the meantime, and there's nothing the UK government can do to help if there's no deal.ralphmalph said:Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.0 -
TBF it's mostly more of a "sympathetic that your mentally retarded uncle set fire to your house" vibeAndyJS said:
The Japanese view us as a laughing stock?edmundintokyo said:
Can confirmrpjs said:
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.DavidL said:
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.-1 -
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes0 -
Not sure the IOW ferries can be counted on:rpjs said:
We had a mercantile marine that consisted of more than the Isle of Wight Ferries during the war!williamglenn said:
According to an audience member on Question Time it will be ok because we had the Atlantic convoys in the war.Richard_Nabavi said:Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman
- An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft
- Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars
- No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU
- No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU
- Delays at French ports
- An end to access to Galileo
- The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement
- An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines
- An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
https://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/16997632.investigation-launched-after-red-funnel-car-ferry-collided-with-yachts-and-ran-aground/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-45322032
Though I can highly recommend the cooked breakfast on the Redfunnel.0 -
I'm all for local pride but that police thing is mental. What an absolute waste of resources.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
It'll be Cornwall next.0 -
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.0 -
Even Dimblebore is finding him ridiculous.Mortimer said:
The whole Labour position is unsustainable. The sad reality is that if the ERG had accepted the deal we’d be ridiculing Labour at the moment...Pulpstar said:What an absolute nonsense from Barry Gardiner - We'll have a customs union, but not THE customs union, but definitely not Turkey and do our own free trade deals on top !
Unicorns on unicorns.0 -
This QT audience is thicker than normal; I hear last week's was better ?0
-
Didn't Gove favour an EEA type Brexit at the time of the referendum? The idea that he is credibly considering quitting in order to push for a renegotiation backed up by a threat of no deal is laughable.0
-
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.kle4 said:Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
Good night.0 -
I do not disagree but it is not going to change. Indeed if anything it is becoming far more required in the public sector and local government. Every announcement including all planning and local government jobs require bilingual notices doubling the space at huge costsMortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.0 -
I don't think so. Maintaining the language and culture are perfectly sound policies.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Neither should it get in the way of providing good public services.0 -
Thinking about the NHS and Brexit planning.
I just remembered their IT protection failures......
Not exactly showing stellar levels of competence.0 -
Or you could say that we are having a very healthy debate on a key issue for the country.kle4 said:
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.kle4 said:Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
Good night.0 -
At the risk of sounding ridiculous, because we haven't filled out the forms.ralphmalph said:
Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?Richard_Nabavi said:
I mean that any car imported into the EU has to have EU Type Approval (i.e. tests where they crash them into barriers etc) before it can legally be driven on EU roads:ralphmalph said:
You really need to offer more detail as a lot of the above is meaningless.Richard_Nabavi said:Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman
- An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft
- Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars
- No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU
- No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU
- Delays at French ports
- An end to access to Galileo
- The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement
- An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines
- An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
So what do you mean by "Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_type_approval
IIRC, the type approval lapses on departure in the absence of a deal and will need to be reapproved. Which would require the approvals to be redone. Which takes time.
The problem is not the level of bureaucracy per se, it's the fact that in the absence of a deal it all has to be done in the time remaining: 134 days.
0 -
"Britain’s government slides into chaos"
https://www.economist.com/bagehots-notebook/2018/11/15/britains-government-slides-into-chaos0 -
Keep an eye on the comments blow this piece;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/15/elementary-way-brexit-impasse-second-referendum/
Should be a good laugh.
0 -
Imagine that. Heaven forfend Leave should exhibit such a trait.Floater said:
Strange isnt itMortimer said:
I’ve never heard this from anyone but Remainer expats.edmundintokyo said:
Can confirmrpjs said:
Believe me, living outside the UK it's quite clear that the UK is already an international laughing stock.DavidL said:
Instead we face a real risk of being stuck as supplicants back in the EU without some of our opt outs, probably without our rebate and absolutely no influence in any event as we will be a complete laughing stock.
Last time I went on holiday, to Dublin, unprompted and without knowledge of my position more people expressed admiration for the Leave vote...
Almost like they are just saying what they want to be true0 -
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.0 -
The EU has said that type approval pre brexit will be valid post brexit. They then made another massive concession, which the car industry never expected, that if a car with type approval is modified then just the modifications need to be tested not the whole car seeing as the testing location would move from the UK to a EU 27 country. Nobody expected this.viewcode said:
At the risk of sounding ridiculous, because we haven't filled out the forms.ralphmalph said:
Obviously but what impact has no deal got on getting type approval for UK made cars. Millions of cars made outside the EU get type approval and are sold into EU every year. Why are we so special that we will not get type approval if we follow the correct EU procedures?Richard_Nabavi said:
I mean that any car imported into the EU has to have EU Type Approval (i.e. tests where they crash them into barriers etc) before it can legally be driven on EU roads:ralphmalph said:
You really need to offer more detail as a lot of the above is meaningless.Richard_Nabavi said:Several people seem to be blaming the government/Phil Hammond/David Cameron for not preparing for No Deal.
I'm curious to know what preparation the UK should have be done for:
- No access to European markets for our fisherman
- An immediate end to our aerospace components being certified for use in aircraft
- Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars
- No legal basis for British ex-pats to continue living in the EU
- No approval for UK agricultural products to be sold in the EU
- Delays at French ports
- An end to access to Galileo
- The impact of No Deal on the Good Friday Agreement
- An end to the existing arrangements for licensing of veterinary and human medicines
- An end to recognition by EU countries of the Certificates of Competency of UK seafarers
I'm sure this is all terribly easy. It must be so because Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't think any of this is a problem.
So what do you mean by "Type approval by the EU for UK-manufactured cars"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_type_approval
IIRC, the type approval lapses on departure in the absence of a deal and will need to be reapproved. Which would require the approvals to be redone. Which takes time.
The problem is not the level of bureaucracy per se, it's the fact that in the absence of a deal it all has to be done in the time remaining: 134 days.0 -
A lot of ERG members are trying to leave it. But they don't seem to know how to.OblitusSumMe said:I think we should pay a lot less attention to the ERG in future. They are clearly not the well-organised highly disciplined party within a party that the media have portrayed.
0 -
Just 19% of the Welsh population are Welsh speakers according to the 2011 census down from 21%Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20677528
Plaid's vote at the 2016 Welsh Assembly election? 20%.
All the Plaid MPs and most of their AMs come from Anglesey, Gwynedd and Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire which are the Welsh speaking heartlands0 -
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
0 -
The time for debate is at an end and Its time for a decision. The Tories are unable to come up with one.ralphmalph said:
Or you could say that we are having a very healthy debate on a key issue for the country.kle4 said:
The final final note is that while the ERG are getting a lot of stick, at the end of the day that was expected to some degree. Tory remainers and Labour rebels not being willing to countenance even a crap deal has been more critical for dooming it. Now, that may well show just how bad it is, but let us be honest, some are clearly just hoping remain somehow succeeds even if no deal is risked, and others are falling back on the childish notion that, no matter the national interest, oppositions must oppose. I don't doubt the vast majority of the opposition do think the national interest is served by opposing in this instance, as in most instances, but to rely upon it as an absolute without assessing the merits of the circumstance, and the risk they are willing to take, would be a grave mistake, for the Tory rebels too. He has talked of looking his children in the eyes over this issue, I wonder how Grieve will look at them if he causes no deal.kle4 said:Well it has been a long day and since I was off sick I've spent far too much time, even than usual, obsessing over this. I expect we'll get some more resignations tomorrow, and we may even finally get to the magical 48 letters and the endgame for May can begin.
But this isn't about May, it's about the UK, and it is not looking good. Remain or no deal seem to be the most plausible scenarios unfortunately, yet we have to spend probably weeks waiting for a vote we know will fail.
And well done the Tory party for showing just how far you can push total incompetence.
Good night.0 -
Exactly my point and reason for my incredulity.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=190 -
He's probably the brightest member of the cabinet but he is both flawed and undermined by his Machiavellian nature - which has led him to overreach at the key moment. I think he should have watched less "Game of Thrones" or taken less notice of the plots from Shakespearean tragedies.alex. said:Didn't Gove favour an EEA type Brexit at the time of the referendum? The idea that he is credibly considering quitting in order to push for a renegotiation backed up by a threat of no deal is laughable.
"Thou wouldst be great. Art not without ambition ..."0 -
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.0 -
LD hold in Oxfordshire - LD 1925, Con 1447, Lab 459, Green 185.0
-
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
Edit if BMW got MINI approval in Germany before brexit then nothiong has changed.0 -
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.0 -
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.Scrapheap_as_was said:Exactly my point and reason for my incredulity.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=190 -
Services are not constrained by language.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Oh and of course your frankly silly comparison to Quebec doesnt hold. Welsh is not a global language; both French and English are.0 -
I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.ralphmalph said:
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.0 -
That link doesn't support your position. It *allows* EU27 to recognise UK certification but doesn't *insist* that they do.ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
"...Internal Market Committee rapporteur Marlene Mizzi said: “Given the current political scenario concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, manufacturers and consumers need certainty where type approvals for vehicles are concerned, to avoid unnecessarily disrupting this important industry. Manufacturers shall now be provided with the required period and legal framework to continue trading within the EU.”
Having received a mandate from the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, the updated EU motor vehicle type approval regulation will be passed to the European Council for negotiation, pending approval in the European Parliament’s plenary sessions. Negotiations must conclude before the UK’s set withdrawal date of March 30, 2019..."
So you have to get the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee to provide a mandate, then negotiate with the European Council, then get it approved by Europarl by March 30th 2019.0 -
The Conservatives put a lot into that. Very good result for the Lib Dems.slade said:LD hold in Oxfordshire - LD 1925, Con 1447, Lab 459, Green 185.
0 -
Are there genuinely any 'Welsh speakers' who are not also fluent in English? I would find it very hard to believe.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.0 -
#pbcelebrityAlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
I had this experience a few months ago. It was someone I had met years ago but didn't know very well. It was indeed a bit unnerving to find he knew all about my political position and betting from reading PB.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
No they do not have to reapply at all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.ralphmalph said:
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.0 -
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general electionPhilip_Thompson said:
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.Scrapheap_as_was said:Exactly my point and reason for my incredulity.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=19
0 -
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:
Services are not constrained by language.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.0 -
Pleased to hear it. Perhaps you could let the author of the article you linked to know, since he or she doesn't seem to agree with you: "Car manufacturers whose vehicles have been type approved in the UK will be able to apply for new EU motor vehicle type approval after Brexit."ralphmalph said:
No they do not have to reapply at all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.ralphmalph said:
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.0 -
What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.viewcode said:
That link doesn't support your position. It *allows* EU27 to recognise UK certification but doesn't *insist* that they do.ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:
United Kingdom type-approval authority will cease to be an EU type-approval authority and will no longer be able to fulfil any of the powers and obligations of a type-approval authority under EU legislation. Manufacturers who obtained approvals in the United Kingdom in the past will thus need to obtain new approvals from EU-27 type approval authorities, including for products already in production, in order to ensure continued compliance with EU legislation and retain access to the Union market.ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
"...Internal Market Committee rapporteur Marlene Mizzi said: “Given the current political scenario concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, manufacturers and consumers need certainty where type approvals for vehicles are concerned, to avoid unnecessarily disrupting this important industry. Manufacturers shall now be provided with the required period and legal framework to continue trading within the EU.”
Having received a mandate from the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, the updated EU motor vehicle type approval regulation will be passed to the European Council for negotiation, pending approval in the European Parliament’s plenary sessions. Negotiations must conclude before the UK’s set withdrawal date of March 30, 2019..."
So you have to get the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee to provide a mandate, then negotiate with the European Council, then get it approved by Europarl by March 30th 2019.0 -
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.YBarddCwsc said:
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:
Services are not constrained by language.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
0 -
If you believe that, then perhaps you can link to the decision of the European Council and the approval of the European Parliament that your link says has to be negotiated and passed.ralphmalph said:
No they do not have to reapply at all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.ralphmalph said:
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
Type approvals for cars, which establish their capacity to meet requirements on safety, environmental and production concerns, must be obtained in the EU from one of the union’s national approval bodies. Once the UK leaves the EU, according to draft legislation approved by the Internal Market and Consumer Protection Committee, manufacturers will be compelled to source an EU motor vehicle type approval in order to market their vehicles within Europe.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.0 -
What I'm wondering is why TMay did the 5:30 TV show. Every one was expecting a big announcement, resignation, even a"I will fight on" and nothing. That was probably the most useless conference meeting I've ever seen.0
-
Do you understand the word already?Richard_Nabavi said:
Pleased to hear it. Perhaps you could let the author of the article you linked to know, since he or she doesn't seem to agree with you: "Car manufacturers whose vehicles have been type approved in the UK will be able to apply for new EU motor vehicle type approval after Brexit."ralphmalph said:
No they do not have to reapply at all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Recognition of tests, yes. But they still need to reapply for the approval based on those tests.ralphmalph said:
But that is new models.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks. That's a more up to date confirmation of my point:ralphmalph said:
https://www.governmenteuropa.eu/eu-motor-vehicle-type-approval-brexit/91039/Richard_Nabavi said:ralphmalph said:
Do keep up, the EU announced a long time ago that type approval pre brexit would still be valid after brexit. They sell far more cars to us than we do to them so in their interest.
If you keep this up some headbanger brexiteer will accuse you of project fear.
PDF here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-2236797_en
Now, it is true that they've agreed streamlined procedures for getting the new approvals. But manufacturers would still need to get the approvals.
As for the EU selling more cars to us than we do to them: yes, of course it's in their interests to do a deal whereby we continue mutual recognition. But if there's no deal, there's no deal. My point - which you seem to have missed - is that there's no preparation the UK can do for that. You can't unilaterally prepare for something which requires the other side to do something.
.
The article also says this. "The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
In any case, as I said this is not something the UK can decide or prepare for. As regards imports, we can say we'll recognise EU type approvals in the absence of any deal. We can't insist on the converse.
"The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
See the already. It means something.0 -
Portillo says May's Deal worse than remaining in the EU on This Week, says the Cabinet must remove her0
-
'Most Tory MPs' won't command the majority of the House of Commons.HYUFD said:
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general electionPhilip_Thompson said:
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.Scrapheap_as_was said:Exactly my point and reason for my incredulity.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=19
'All Tory MPs' won't either.0 -
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.Mortimer said:
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.YBarddCwsc said:
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:
Services are not constrained by language.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:
I studied History Big G, I understand.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:
Most of my family live in Wales, many in Llandudno and Rhyl. They all learned at school. All but one consider it a waste of energy. My mother and all my aunts and uncles learned Welsh in the 60s/70s and can’t rememeber hardlya word. Because it isn’t a live language.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
But Wales was largely anglicised centuries ago. Spending taxpayer money on a minority language is a shame on the Welsh public sector.
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.0 -
One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up Slow/araf, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !0
-
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.0 -
I believe you. But those processes haven't finished yet and if they aren't finished by Brexit day we have a problem. You're referring to it as a done deal, but it hasn't been signed off yet. And given that one of the steps is Europarl approval, it's not guaranteed that it will.ralphmalph said:What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.
0 -
I'm off to bed, but really! Read you own link. The manufacturer applies for APPROVAL. To get that it needs to submit the results of TESTS. Get the distinction?ralphmalph said:
Do you understand the word already?
"The draft regulation, which covers all motor vehicles and their associated systems, components and technical units, would allow recognition of tests already carried out by UK type approval authorities."
See the already. It means something.
In any case, none of this affects my point.0 -
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
The DUP don’t get to choose the leader of the Conservatives. They might get a say in the identity of the next Prime Minister. Those people might not be the same.0
-
YBarddCwsc said:Mortimer said:YBarddCwsc said:Mortimer said:YBarddCwsc said:Mortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Mortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:HYUFD said:
Most of /blockquote>Big_G_NorthWales said:
I ask again, is there a single person in Wales who can only speak, read and write Welsh?0 -
Were they wearing any expensive bling??AndyJS said:
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?YBarddCwsc said:
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.Mortimer said:
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.YBarddCwsc said:
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:
Services are not constrained by language.YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Just suppose Quebec treated English speakers like this. Mortimer would be railing against it and blabbering of Fascism.
It is not Fascism to recognise that one language is vastly dominant over the other, and that money spent on translation might be better spent on schools and hospitals.
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
0 -
Yes.KentRising said:
I ask again, is there a single person in Wales who can only speak, read and write Welsh?
0 -
The fetishisation of Welsh first is equally troubling.YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.0 -
In the Valleys Welsh is largely pointless. I think that is true for much of South Wales, there are areas where it is quite heavily spoken but outside of that large parts of Wales exist almost exclusively on English.
I agree that Welsh somewhat limits Plaid's appeal as well, pre Corbyn when I was looking for someone to vote for (Greens not available) the Welsh language side of Plaid put me off slightly, admittedly the nationalist aspect would put me off anyway, would take a lot for me to vote for a nationalist party but the language aspect would probably help put off other people who are a bit less wary of nationalism.
The areas where it is still going strong support it and help it by all means but in areas like mine it feels rather forced and a waste which probably isn't actually reversing the situation.0 -
Someone who was correctly awestruck by the spreadsheet.AndyJS said:
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
I agree, but one must have a little bit of faith that if the EU bigwigs have decided to do something then they can get it through in time.viewcode said:
I believe you. But those processes haven't finished yet and if they aren't finished by Brexit day we have a problem. You're referring to it as a done deal, but it hasn't been signed off yet. And given that one of the steps is Europarl approval, it's not guaranteed that it will.ralphmalph said:What do you not understand that the EU is moving this through the EU legal mechanism. Nothing to do with the UK Govt.
0 -
It was a work of art. Hope to buy @AndyJS a drink or ten at some future PB Gathering to say thanks properly.AlastairMeeks said:
Someone who was correctly awestruck by the spreadsheet.AndyJS said:
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
Does the total number of people fit inside a minibus?YBarddCwsc said:
Yes.KentRising said:
I ask again, is there a single person in Wales who can only speak, read and write Welsh?0 -
NoKentRising said:
Does the total number of people fit inside a minibus?YBarddCwsc said:
Yes.KentRising said:
I ask again, is there a single person in Wales who can only speak, read and write Welsh?0 -
I thought it was Slow Araf...YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.0 -
The fact that there are fewer Welsh speakers is all the more reason to preserve and promote the language. The French language is not under threat.Mortimer said:
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?YBarddCwsc said:
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.Mortimer said:
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.YBarddCwsc said:
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Just suppose Quebec treated Englis
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
I am a little surprised that you are so utilitarian about language when it is such a core part of Welsh history and national consciousness. Are you as keen for the English to be homogenized ?0 -
What about Twp ? The English of the Valleys incorporates many Welsh loan words.TheJezziah said:
I thought it was Slow Araf...YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.0 -
This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..0 -
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.Foxy said:
The fact that there are fewer Welsh speakers is all the more reason to preserve and promote the language. The French language is not under threat.Mortimer said:
Maybe we should discuss this when there are 220m Welsh speakers worldwide?YBarddCwsc said:
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.Mortimer said:
No, it’s a facile comparison. Because both French and English have wider application.YBarddCwsc said:
So Quebec is overwhelming French-speaking. Less than 20 per cent of the population speak English.Mortimer said:YBarddCwsc said:
So Welsh speakers pay taxes but can't expect Welsh services in return.Mortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Llandudno and Rhyl are Anglicised. Cross the River Conwy and you are in Welsh speaking WalesMortimer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not really. It is taught in Schools. All my grand children can speak Welsh, indeed my children have a passable knowedge of it.HYUFD said:
Most of Wales can't speak WelshBig_G_NorthWales said:
Also most local authority jobs require it and my sons partner who has just joined the police service has to go to Welsh classes
Just suppose Quebec treated Englis
Your advice to the English speakers of Quebec is that French is overwhelming dominant and they should not expect services in English, correct?
All the English translation that the Canadian government does to ensure that the English speakers of Quebec can access services in their own language is a waste of money, correct? It could be better spent on hospitals in Quebec.
Funnily enough, when English speakers are the minority, they wail the fecking house down that they have a right to expect services in English.
I am a little surprised that you are so utilitarian about language when it is such a core part of Welsh history and national consciousness. Are you as keen for the English to be homogenized ?0 -
Mortimer said:
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!0 -
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.shiney2 said:This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..0 -
TBH It did ring a bell after I looked it up and saw the translation I think some of my friends might have a similar reaction (some none at all even after translation) but I'd say that word is probably dying out rapidly as slang among younger groups, struggling to remember where I have heard it but I think they were a fair bit older than me and it was a while ago.YBarddCwsc said:
What about Twp ? The English of the Valleys incorporates many Welsh loan words.TheJezziah said:
I thought it was Slow Araf...YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.
I could swear it is as I have the same stupid thought in my head about a person named Araf who isn't particularly bright. Also one of the few Welsh words I would have claimed to know.
Edit: cwtch, that is a word lots of English speaking people here know. One good example0 -
No it is an exact analogy. There are 20 per cent English speakers in Quebec. There are 20 per cent Welsh speakers in Wales.
Would only be an exact analogy if it were 20% of Quebec spoke French.
0 -
All I did really was put a whole lot of census data together on the same page. But thanks for the appreciation.Mortimer said:
It was a work of art. Hope to buy @AndyJS a drink or ten at some future PB Gathering to say thanks properly.AlastairMeeks said:
Someone who was correctly awestruck by the spreadsheet.AndyJS said:
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS0 -
The minority language in both places is spoken by 20 per cent of the people.dixiedean said:
Would only be an exact analogy if it were 20% of Quebec spoke French.0 -
Not always:YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.
0 -
Interesting. Where I live Araf comes first.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not always:YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.0 -
Probably because it's a Welsh-speaking area.YBarddCwsc said:
Interesting. Where I live Araf comes first.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not always:YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.0 -
As I’ve proved, English is a sufficiently difficult language to learn as it is.YBarddCwsc said:Mortimer said:
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!
Incidentally, I don’t see Gaelic translations across Scotland. I wonder why Welsh is so fetishised across the nation?0 -
And afterwards?GIN1138 said:
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.shiney2 said:This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
0 -
It is not a false choice as that is the only Deal the EU will offer and No Deal is worse than bothshiney2 said:
Actually he said it was a false choice, but don't let a verifiable fact stop you..HYUFD said:Portillo says May's Deal worse than remaining in the EU on This Week, says the Cabinet must remove her
0 -
Spreadsheets can be so powerful.AndyJS said:
All I did really was put a whole lot of census data together on the same page. But thanks for the appreciation.Mortimer said:
It was a work of art. Hope to buy @AndyJS a drink or ten at some future PB Gathering to say thanks properly.AlastairMeeks said:
Someone who was correctly awestruck by the spreadsheet.AndyJS said:
Maybe someone who found the referendum spreadsheet helpful.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve been approached this evening by a lurking reader. It’s a bit unnerving - I can’t imagine how celebrities deal with it.
Correctly, however, my interlocutor had most praise for @AndyJS
On one consulting project I did a spreadsheet favour for one business function in some slow time; I honestly wonder if it had more of a positive effect on the business than the project I was actually working on.0 -
Ahh yes I was sure of it, I see Slow Araf everywhere. It is slow first here as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Probably because it's a Welsh-speaking area.YBarddCwsc said:
Interesting. Where I live Araf comes first.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not always:YBarddCwsc said:
It is Araf/Stop.Pulpstar said:One thing I noted about signs - in wales the roads are doubled up STOP/ARAF, but in France it it not "arretez" used on stop signs, but STOP !
Araf comes first.0 -
Well if the DUP dictate who the Tory leader is they control not just the House of Commons but the Tory Party too and that is unacceptable for a party with just over a third of votes even in NIPhilip_Thompson said:
'Most Tory MPs' won't command the majority of the House of Commons.HYUFD said:
Most Tory MPs will tell the DUP to sod off rather than having their leader dictated to them even if it requires a general electionPhilip_Thompson said:
Had May not royally f###ed up an unscheduled and unnecessary election throwing away both Cameron's majority and an over 20% lead they would be in no place to make any demands. If the DUP demand May's head on a silver platter that is no more than karmic justice for what she did last year.Scrapheap_as_was said:Exactly my point and reason for my incredulity.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1063218582174224384?s=19
'All Tory MPs' won't either.0 -
Indeed. And my comment was not intended to be anti Welsh.YBarddCwsc said:
The minority language in both places is spoken by 20 per cent of the people.dixiedean said:
Would only be an exact analogy if it were 20% of Quebec spoke French.
But French is the majority language in Quebec.
0 -
You're out of touch, my babyMortimer said:
As I’ve proved, English is a sufficiently difficult language to learn as it is.YBarddCwsc said:Mortimer said:
I don't believe in using government subsidy to prop up Welsh to a status beyond it's natural position. Its not an issue of cultural homogenisation, but fiscal rectitude.
Hilarious .. "it's natural position" .. you seem to have enough difficulty with English.
And then "Its not " fails to have an apostrophe!!
Incidentally, I don’t see Gaelic translations across Scotland. I wonder why Welsh is so fetishised across the nation?
My poor discarded baby
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
There are Gaelic translations across Scotland.
Obviously, you have not visited in ages.0 -
The ERG pulled back today as they know they do not have the votes to topple May and the DUP can huff and puff but they cannot topple her either. The Cabinet has already collectively backed the PMshiney2 said:
And afterwards?GIN1138 said:
Portillo seemed to think it will play out as I suggested which is that the Cabinet, realizing that the deal is dead and the DUP are going to pull the plug, will then step in and tell May to resign as she's lost their confidence.shiney2 said:This Week considers Brexit:.. there is no way yada yada.
Perfect.
The Peoples' LEAVE is coming..
0 -
Yes! The Draft agreement can be changed! Not necessarily to our advantage:
BRUSSELS/PARIS (Reuters) - France on Thursday led calls among European Union states for changes to the draft agreement on Britain’s exit from the bloc, adding to uncertainty over the fate of the deal as British Prime Minister Theresa faced an uproar at home.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-27/french-led-eu-states-call-for-changes-to-britains-draft-exit-deal-idUKKCN1NK21E?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter0
This discussion has been closed.