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IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
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Citation required.Anazina said:
Reminds me of last weekend when you blamed Remainers for the mess that Brexit was in.CarlottaVance said:
You keep writing 'he won't be affected by a bad deal or no deal' - you don't know that.SouthamObserver said:
I am not attacking his personal circumstances. I am pointing out that someone accusing the British Prime Minister of potentially being a traitor for possibly proposing a Brexit deal he does not like lives and works in Australia.CarlottaVance said:
Mr Archer's personal circumstances are his own business - none of ours. Much better (and frankly more in character) to attack his ideas than his personal circumstances, of which you admit you are completely ignorant.SouthamObserver said:
I think that it is reasonable to assume that someone who lives and works in Australia is not likely to have his job or living standards negatively impacted by a No Deal Brexit. If that is not the case, Mr Archer is at perfect liberty to inform us.
Not that its any of our business, but below he replied 'all of the above' when I suggested it entirely possible for an Australian resident to have family, property, investments or pensions in the UK.
Perhaps engage with his argument than his current geographical location?0 -
David_Evershed said:
We need not only a divorce deal (the Withdrawal agreement), but also a Trade Deal or at least a binding agreement about the future trade relationship plus a refund on the Withdrawal agreement terms if the trade deal is not finally signed.archer101au said:
That would appear to mean that Olly Robbins has sold out the UK and he is waiting to inform TM of what he has done. It would be absolutely extraordinary if Robbins has reached a deal without having political approval. But then May does not have Cabinet approval for anything other than Chequers. The conventions of Government that have been in place for centuries being overturned in a desperate attempt to sell out the country.CarlottaVance said:
Why would the EU agree to that?0 -
Surely a perfectly reasonable precedent for NI customs though.David_Evershed said:
IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
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Not having umlauts and accents is another good reason for everyone to adopt English - nicht wahr?OldKingCole said:
Kein Platz fur Die Linke, nicht wahr?TheWhiteRabbit said:
Polling pretty closeAlanbrooke said:
Bavarian election result - first forecast
https://wahltool.zdf.de/wahlergebnisse/2018-10-14-LT-DE-BY.html?i=1
(Can't do umlauts)0 -
But are ruled by the British Crown, via an individual that has the support of the local assembly.David_Evershed said:
IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
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Slam dunk?archer101au said:
Always delighted to answer a direct question. And this is probably the most important point I have made.LordOfReason said:
I’m not going to attack Archie simply because of location, he’s entitled to his views and his passion for the country wherever he is. As we all are.
But
“Remaining in a CU for any period of time would be a disastrous outcome for the UK; far worse than either Remaining or No Deal”
I genuinely want to know the evidence supporting that statement
Under the CU, the EU can negotiate FTAs on behalf of the CU. BUT although the UK would be bound by the terms of these treaties and the tariff agreements, the third parties with which the EU is signing the FTAs are NOT bound to provide these benefits to the UK - the UK will not be part of the EU, and the FTA is between the third country and the EU. The UK is not a party to the FTA.
So it is a totally one sided arrangement. We are bound by whatever the EU agrees, but we don't get access to the FTAs terms, only the tariff arrangement. The EU can therefore sign an FTA which gives a third country preferential access to parts of the UK market, and the UK has no say, but the UK does not get the reciprocal rights in the third country.
Therefore this outcome is far more damaging to the UK than any of the alternatives and would result in massive damage to UK trade internationally if it became permanent. It would be simply mad to agree to this.0 -
Given the Channel Islands status traces to 1066, I'm not sure that provides a helpful precedent for Northern Ireland.Foxy said:
Surely a perfectly reasonable precedent for NI customs though.David_Evershed said:
IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
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But we have things like 'rough' rhymes with 'buff' or 'photography' begins with the same sound as 'f'.David_Evershed said:
Not having umlauts and accents is another good reason for everyone to adopt English - nicht wahr?OldKingCole said:
Kein Platz fur Die Linke, nicht wahr?TheWhiteRabbit said:
Polling pretty closeAlanbrooke said:
Bavarian election result - first forecast
https://wahltool.zdf.de/wahlergebnisse/2018-10-14-LT-DE-BY.html?i=1
(Can't do umlauts)0 -
Because it is logical - and a negotiation.CarlottaVance said:David_Evershed said:
We need not only a divorce deal (the Withdrawal agreement), but also a Trade Deal or at least a binding agreement about the future trade relationship plus a refund on the Withdrawal agreement terms if the trade deal is not finally signed.archer101au said:
That would appear to mean that Olly Robbins has sold out the UK and he is waiting to inform TM of what he has done. It would be absolutely extraordinary if Robbins has reached a deal without having political approval. But then May does not have Cabinet approval for anything other than Chequers. The conventions of Government that have been in place for centuries being overturned in a desperate attempt to sell out the country.CarlottaVance said:
Why would the EU agree to that?0 -
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Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.0 -
"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d0 -
The Channel Islands are not in the EU of course.CarlottaVance said:
The Channel Islands are not part of the UK ( they "report" to the queen, not the UK government, the queen delegates oversight to the UK government, but by treaty and custom they are self governing, although many UK laws are adopted more or less automatically).Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
Channel Islanders never benefited from Freedom of Movement in the EU.0 -
Strictly speaking the Channel Isles are not part of the British Isles. They are part of Normandy.David_Evershed said:
IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
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As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/10513891432871321600 -
It is concerning that Olly Robbins thinks a plan can be agreed that won't pass the first hurdle of his political masters - Raab - let alone the Cabinet - suggests poor communication (or a bit of theatre.....though 'cock-up' is almost always the best explanation.)AlastairMeeks said:
Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.0 -
That’s just good manners.AndyJS said:"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d0 -
That comment is a classic.TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
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CarlottaVance said:
Citation required.Anazina said:
Reminds me of last weekend when you blamed Remainers for the mess that Brexit was in.CarlottaVance said:
You keep writing 'he won't be affected by a bad deal or no deal' - you don't know that.SouthamObserver said:
I am not attacking his personal circumstances. I am pointing out that someone accusing the British Prime Minister of potentially being a traitor for possibly proposing a Brexit deal he does not like lives and works in Australia.CarlottaVance said:
Mr Archer's personal circumstances are his own business - none of ours. Much better (and frankly more in character) to attack his ideas than his personal circumstances, of which you admit you are completely ignorant.SouthamObserver said:
I think that it is reasonable to assume that someone who lives and works in Australia is not likely to have his job or living standards negatively impacted by a No Deal Brexit. If that is not the case, Mr Archer is at perfect liberty to inform us.
Not that its any of our business, but below he replied 'all of the above' when I suggested it entirely possible for an Australian resident to have family, property, investments or pensions in the UK.
Perhaps engage with his argument than his current geographical location?
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CarlottaVance said:
It is concerning that Olly Robbins thinks a plan can be agreed that won't pass the first hurdle of his political masters - Raab - let alone the Cabinet - suggests poor communication (or a bit of theatre.....though 'cock-up' is almost always the best explanation.)AlastairMeeks said:
Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.
How does anyone know? we are standing on the sidelines guessing.0 -
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
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I am not sure that you are right here. Once the UK leave the EU, their signature on the agreements is invalid because it is a term of the agreement that the agreement applies to EU members. The UK are a signatory, not party to the agreement.rcs1000 said:
Unusually, I disagree with you from a technical perspective rather than a moral one.archer101au said:
Always delighted to answer a direct question. And this is probably the most important point I have made.LordOfReason said:
I’m not going to attack Archie simply because of location, he’s entitled to his views and his passion for the country wherever he is. As we all are.
But
“Remaining in a CU for any period of time would be a disastrous outcome for the UK; far worse than either Remaining or No Deal”
I genuinely want to know the evidence supporting that statement
Under the CU, the EU can negotiate FTAs on behalf of the CU. BUT although the UK would be bound by the terms of these treaties and the tariff agreements, the third parties with which the EU is signing the FTAs are NOT bound to provide these benefits to the UK - the UK will not be part of the EU, and the FTA is between the third country and the EU. The UK is not a party to the FTA.
So it is a totally one sided arrangement. We are bound by whatever the EU agrees, but we don't get access to the FTAs terms, only the tariff arrangement. The EU can therefore sign an FTA which gives a third country preferential access to parts of the UK market, and the UK has no say, but the UK does not get the reciprocal rights in the third country.
Therefore this outcome is far more damaging to the UK than any of the alternatives and would result in massive damage to UK trade internationally if it became permanent. It would be simply mad to agree to this.
If you look at - for example - CETA, you will see that the UK itself is a signatory to it. It is not solely a treaty between the EU and Canada. Turkey, by contrast, is not a signatory to CETA. It is therefore at the discretion of the EU and the UK what happens to the arrangement post Brexit if the UK remained in the Customs Union.
Usually a party cannot unilaterally give a third party the benefit of a contract to which it is not a party. In am FTA between (say) the EU and Canada, the UK will cease to be a party to that agreement. It would seem to require the consent of both parties to extend the benefits to the UK. The EU cannot just 'include' the UK.
And the whole point here is that the EU may consider it in their interests to offer up access to UK markets in an FTA and it is quite obvious from what we have seen that they may also consider it appropriate to screw the UK by not including the UK in the agreement.0 -
It's darkest before dawn*CarlottaVance said:
(OK, it isn't. But if you want to be correct, perhaps 'coldest' is better.)0 -
Are you needing new glasses? that surely is a cetatean.Recidivist said:CarlottaVance said:
Citation required.Anazina said:
Reminds me of last weekend when you blamed Remainers for the mess that Brexit was in.CarlottaVance said:
You keep writing 'he won't be affected by a bad deal or no deal' - you don't know that.SouthamObserver said:
I am not attacking his personal circumstances. I am pointing out that someone accusing the British Prime Minister of potentially being a traitor for possibly proposing a Brexit deal he does not like lives and works in Australia.CarlottaVance said:
Mr Archer's personal circumstances are his own business - none of ours. Much better (and frankly more in character) to attack his ideas than his personal circumstances, of which you admit you are completely ignorant.SouthamObserver said:
I think that it is reasonable to assume that someone who lives and works in Australia is not likely to have his job or living standards negatively impacted by a No Deal Brexit. If that is not the case, Mr Archer is at perfect liberty to inform us.
Not that its any of our business, but below he replied 'all of the above' when I suggested it entirely possible for an Australian resident to have family, property, investments or pensions in the UK.
Perhaps engage with his argument than his current geographical location? 0 -
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.0 -
Sounds totally accurate to me. Own itTheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered. 0 -
See this legal analysis, which I think confirms the position I have set out:archer101au said:
I am not sure that you are right here. Once the UK leave the EU, their signature on the agreements is invalid because it is a term of the agreement that the agreement applies to EU members. The UK are a signatory, not party to the agreement.rcs1000 said:
Unusually, I disagree with you from a technical perspective rather than a moral one.
If you look at - for example - CETA, you will see that the UK itself is a signatory to it. It is not solely a treaty between the EU and Canada. Turkey, by contrast, is not a signatory to CETA. It is therefore at the discretion of the EU and the UK what happens to the arrangement post Brexit if the UK remained in the Customs Union.
Usually a party cannot unilaterally give a third party the benefit of a contract to which it is not a party. In am FTA between (say) the EU and Canada, the UK will cease to be a party to that agreement. It would seem to require the consent of both parties to extend the benefits to the UK. The EU cannot just 'include' the UK.
And the whole point here is that the EU may consider it in their interests to offer up access to UK markets in an FTA and it is quite obvious from what we have seen that they may also consider it appropriate to screw the UK by not including the UK in the agreement.
https://lawyersforbritain.org/staying-in-the-eu-customs-union-after-exit
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Greetings, Archbrexiteer.archer101au said:
See this legal analysis, which I think confirms the position I have set out:archer101au said:
I am not sure that you are right here. Once the UK leave the EU, their signature on the agreements is invalid because it is a term of the agreement that the agreement applies to EU members. The UK are a signatory, not party to the agreement.rcs1000 said:
Unusually, I disagree with you from a technical perspective rather than a moral one.
If you look at - for example - CETA, you will see that the UK itself is a signatory to it. It is not solely a treaty between the EU and Canada. Turkey, by contrast, is not a signatory to CETA. It is therefore at the discretion of the EU and the UK what happens to the arrangement post Brexit if the UK remained in the Customs Union.
Usually a party cannot unilaterally give a third party the benefit of a contract to which it is not a party. In am FTA between (say) the EU and Canada, the UK will cease to be a party to that agreement. It would seem to require the consent of both parties to extend the benefits to the UK. The EU cannot just 'include' the UK.
And the whole point here is that the EU may consider it in their interests to offer up access to UK markets in an FTA and it is quite obvious from what we have seen that they may also consider it appropriate to screw the UK by not including the UK in the agreement.
https://lawyersforbritain.org/staying-in-the-eu-customs-union-after-exit
Earlier you said if Raab walked out of the negotiations, said that regrettably no deal was possible, and resigned from the Government, he could be PM within a month. I’m beginning to think you’re right.
We are out of time. May cannot be the leader for No Deal.0 -
0
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The concern is that Olly Robins is trying to bounce the PM into an agreement to suit the EU rather than the UK.CarlottaVance said:
It is concerning that Olly Robbins thinks a plan can be agreed that won't pass the first hurdle of his political masters - Raab - let alone the Cabinet - suggests poor communication (or a bit of theatre.....though 'cock-up' is almost always the best explanation.)AlastairMeeks said:
Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.0 -
Don't worry Mr Eagles. We all know you're as working class as Jeremy Corbyn.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.0 -
I'm sure he doesn't see it like that - but there does appear to be a breakdown in communication somewhere along the Robins - May - Raab axis...David_Evershed said:
The concern is that Olly Robins is trying to bounce the PM into an agreement to suit the EU rather than the UK.CarlottaVance said:
It is concerning that Olly Robbins thinks a plan can be agreed that won't pass the first hurdle of his political masters - Raab - let alone the Cabinet - suggests poor communication (or a bit of theatre.....though 'cock-up' is almost always the best explanation.)AlastairMeeks said:
Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.0 -
Holy crap, we have to pay a fortune for that kind of bull merde. Time these clowns were cast adrift and forced into the real world.AndyJS said:"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d0 -
AndyJS said:
"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d
Why not use it instead of he or she? It is a perfectly sound pronoun.0 -
The island dependencies don't send MPs to Westminster however.Foxy said:
Surely a perfectly reasonable precedent for NI customs though.David_Evershed said:
IofM and Channel Isles are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK.Foxy said:
Just a matter of interpretation. Are Manxmen or Islanders less British than Northern Irish?rcs1000 said:
Technically those are not part of the United Kingdom, so your comparison is not accurate.Foxy said:
Or between UK and Channel Islands, Isle of Man?SouthamObserver said:
So it would be like mainland Spain and the Canary Islands? Or Ceuta and Melilla?archer101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
0 -
Well you are a lawyerTheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.
0 -
Cetacean, surely!Foxy said:
Are you needing new glasses? that surely is a cetatean.Recidivist said:CarlottaVance said:
Citation required.Anazina said:
Reminds me of last weekend when you blamed Remainers for the mess that Brexit was in.CarlottaVance said:
You keep writing 'he won't be affected by a bad deal or no deal' - you don't know that.SouthamObserver said:
I am not attacking his personal circumstances. I am pointing out that someone accusing the British Prime Minister of potentially being a traitor for possibly proposing a Brexit deal he does not like lives and works in Australia.CarlottaVance said:
Mr Archer's personal circumstances are his own business - none of ours. Much better (and frankly more in character) to attack his ideas than his personal circumstances, of which you admit you are completely ignorant.SouthamObserver said:
I think that it is reasonable to assume that someone who lives and works in Australia is not likely to have his job or living standards negatively impacted by a No Deal Brexit. If that is not the case, Mr Archer is at perfect liberty to inform us.
Not that its any of our business, but below he replied 'all of the above' when I suggested it entirely possible for an Australian resident to have family, property, investments or pensions in the UK.
Perhaps engage with his argument than his current geographical location?0 -
I realised the other day that I will always be a Northerner.ydoethur said:
Don't worry Mr Eagles. We all know you're as working class as Jeremy Corbyn.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.
In a restaurant I ordered circa £40 for a main, when it arrived it was a very small portion and I said 'Is that it?' in a very Northern accent.
The only downside to having a Northern accent is that I'm dropping the c-bomb every time I say 'couldn't'.0 -
Leonard is among the thickest of the thick regional managers for labour since time immemorial. I would have said it was impossible for them to get any further down the evolutionary chain than previous dolts, but they have managed it.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/10513891432871321600 -
Jeez, ee still talking about the Brexit.
Yes, we know it's a calamity and all Brexiteers are thick moronic fantasists, but what's new?
And, good evening all.0 -
I'll put you down as a 'maybe' thenmalcolmg said:
Leonard is among the thickest of the thick regional managers for labour since time immemorial. I would have said it was impossible for them to get any further down the evolutionary chain than previous dolts, but they have managed it.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
0 -
Thanks for putting your technical response out there. Proper conversation like this gets to nub of.archer101au said:
Always delighted to answer a direct question. And this is probably the most important point I have made.LordOfReason said:
“Remaining in a CU for any period of time would be a disastrous outcome for the UK; far worse than either Remaining or No Deal”
I genuinely want to know the evidence supporting that statement
Under the CU, the EU can negotiate FTAs on behalf of the CU. BUT although the UK would be bound by the terms of these treaties and the tariff agreements, the third parties with which the EU is signing the FTAs are NOT bound to provide these benefits to the UK - the UK will not be part of the EU, and the FTA is between the third country and the EU. The UK is not a party to the FTA.
So it is a totally one sided arrangement. We are bound by whatever the EU agrees, but we don't get access to the FTAs terms, only the tariff arrangement. The EU can therefore sign an FTA which gives a third country preferential access to parts of the UK market, and the UK has no say, but the UK does not get the reciprocal rights in the third country.
Therefore this outcome is far more damaging to the UK than any of the alternatives and would result in massive damage to UK trade internationally if it became permanent. It would be simply mad to agree to this.
I can give you another argument to use. Since we gave up negotiating on our own, with some cost benefit to that, we gave up freedom of choice, some of what came to us from EU we would have no problem accepting, some would and should create debate within British politics, where Britain stand not together as a group on choices. The example I would use is Basel 3, leave campaign referenced within the campaign, fairly enough it came to us part of EU directive, and ideologically given freedom some would not have signed.
Given that freedom of choice, would UK government have signed up to Basel 3? This is weakness of remainer argument, locking us into an ideological direction we may not choose to take if we had freedom.0 -
Do Northerners value quantity above quality then?TheScreamingEagles said:
I realised the other day that I will always be a Northerner.ydoethur said:
Don't worry Mr Eagles. We all know you're as working class as Jeremy Corbyn.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.
In a restaurant I ordered circa £40 for a main, when it arrived it was a very small portion and I said 'Is that it?' in a very Northern accent.
The only downside to having a Northern accent is that I'm dropping the c-bomb every time I say 'couldn't'.0 -
These seems daft to me, but not because it’s OK to be rude to people who want to be called by a different gender to their physical sex. My objection is that most trans people know whether they want to be called he or she. Why not just do that, rather than jump through grammatical hoops for the 0.0001% of millennials who are so special they need a new category.malcolmg said:
Holy crap, we have to pay a fortune for that kind of bull merde. Time these clowns were cast adrift and forced into the real world.AndyJS said:"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d
Rant over.0 -
I disagree, and that document talks about Turkey, which is not a signatory to the EU's customs deals so is not directly relevant.archer101au said:
See this legal analysis, which I think confirms the position I have set out:archer101au said:
I am not sure that you are right here. Once the UK leave the EU, their signature on the agreements is invalid because it is a term of the agreement that the agreement applies to EU members. The UK are a signatory, not party to the agreement.rcs1000 said:
Unusually, I disagree with you from a technical perspective rather than a moral one.
If you look at - for example - CETA, you will see that the UK itself is a signatory to it. It is not solely a treaty between the EU and Canada. Turkey, by contrast, is not a signatory to CETA. It is therefore at the discretion of the EU and the UK what happens to the arrangement post Brexit if the UK remained in the Customs Union.
Usually a party cannot unilaterally give a third party the benefit of a contract to which it is not a party. In am FTA between (say) the EU and Canada, the UK will cease to be a party to that agreement. It would seem to require the consent of both parties to extend the benefits to the UK. The EU cannot just 'include' the UK.
And the whole point here is that the EU may consider it in their interests to offer up access to UK markets in an FTA and it is quite obvious from what we have seen that they may also consider it appropriate to screw the UK by not including the UK in the agreement.
https://lawyersforbritain.org/staying-in-the-eu-customs-union-after-exit
There are two reasons why I believe you are wrong.
Firstly, the government's own legal advice is that we remain party to the EU's trade deals through the transition or implementation period.
Secondly, looking longer term and taking the treaty with Canada as our template. It will need to be amended post Brexit in all circumstances. (And treaties are revised with minutae all the time.) The power of inertia, which you rightly worry about, works in our favour here. Amending the treaty so that the UK remains party as part of the EU customs union is no more effort than removing the UK from the deal altogether.
So, could Canada choose to say "no", the UK cannot be a part of the amended treaty? Yes, they could. But given they - we would hope - would want a Free Trade Agreement with us, and it's less hassle to say yes, why would they?0 -
Raab confirmed at the Select Committee that Robins reports direct to May, not to him Raab.CarlottaVance said:
I'm sure he doesn't see it like that - but there does appear to be a breakdown in communication somewhere along the Robins - May - Raab axis...David_Evershed said:
The concern is that Olly Robins is trying to bounce the PM into an agreement to suit the EU rather than the UK.CarlottaVance said:
It is concerning that Olly Robbins thinks a plan can be agreed that won't pass the first hurdle of his political masters - Raab - let alone the Cabinet - suggests poor communication (or a bit of theatre.....though 'cock-up' is almost always the best explanation.)AlastairMeeks said:
Evidently the Cabinet revolt and the DUP’s never x4 kyboshed the quislingery*.CarlottaVance said:
*per the snowflake Leavers.0 -
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.SouthamObserver said:
If I were in the DUP I would be looking a lot more carefully at what all the polling tells us about attitudes to Northern Ireland on the British mainland. Put simply, standing in the way of a Brexit deal may not strengthen ties! If we do get to No Deal thanks to the DUP, it could get rather interesting.HYUFD said:
It does not erect a border with tariffs between GB and NI as the whole UK reat to the Union than keeping NI in the SM and CURobD said:
No, but it erects a border between two parts of the UK.HYUFD said:
So there would still be no tariffs then and no hard border in Ireland which is what most voters in NI wantarcher101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU0 -
Only if the DUP get their way but of course that still leaves the problem of how to deal with DUP votersrcs1000 said:
So Brexit finally solves the problem of Northern Ireland: we get to foist it onto the Republic and get our £11bn back?HYUFD said:
57.8% of NI voters want special status within the EU and to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union.CarlottaVance said:
No tariffs + same standards = no border checksHYUFD said:
So there would still be no tariffs between GB and NI then and no hard border in Ireland which is what most voters in NI wantarcher101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
No tariffs + different standards* = border checks.
* or even 'same' standards not subject to same rules (ie ECJ)
47.9% would vote to join the Republic of Ireland in the event of a hard border in NI and a hard Brexit, 45.4% to stay in the UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-irish-republic-eu-hard-brexit-poll-lucidtalk-a8098531.html0 -
Definitely "Upper Middle Class"TheScreamingEagles said:
In a restaurant I ordered circa £40 for a main, 0 -
Surely we get a vote too.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum on NI this week to be held in early November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.SouthamObserver said:
If I were in the DUP I would be looking a lot more carefully at what all the polling tells us about attitudes to Northern Ireland on the British mainland. Put simply, standing in the way of a Brexit deal may not strengthen ties! If we do get to No Deal thanks to the DUP, it could get rather interesting.HYUFD said:
It does not erect a border with tariffs between GB and NI as the whole UK reat to the Union than keeping NI in the SM and CURobD said:
No, but it erects a border between two parts of the UK.HYUFD said:
So there would still be no tariffs then and no hard border in Ireland which is what most voters in NI wantarcher101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU0 -
I think southerners pronounce "couldn't" the same as northerners?TheScreamingEagles said:
The only downside to having a Northern accent is that I'm dropping the c-bomb every time I say 'couldn't'.0 -
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Only when referring to Boris.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I think southerners pronounce "couldn't" the same as northerners?TheScreamingEagles said:
The only downside to having a Northern accent is that I'm dropping the c-bomb every time I say 'couldn't'.0 -
RMT tossers at Northern Rail still striking every Saturday, precluding any attempt to either Retford - Brigg - Barnetby OR Stockport - Guide Bridge
0 -
Three party coalitions are usually very unstable, especially if they have a thin majority.HYUFD said:
CSU + FW + FDP comfortably over 50% on 52% combined. Abysmal result for the SPD falling behind both the Greens and the AfDAlanbrooke said:CSU - 35%
Grrens -19%
SPD - 9.5%
AfD - 11%
FW - 11.5%
FDP 5%
CSU get a kicking SPD heading for oblivion0 -
I wonder whether that's also possible in the UK now, which would largely be at the expense of Labour.rcs1000 said:
Yes, I think that's probably true.SouthamObserver said:
The focus on the AfD in Germany seems to be obscuring an even bigger story: the rise of the Greens.rcs1000 said:
That's a terrible, terrible result for the SPD, and a perhaps better than feared one for the CSU.Alanbrooke said:
Bavarian election result - first forecast
https://wahltool.zdf.de/wahlergebnisse/2018-10-14-LT-DE-BY.html?i=1
The FDP get to be on tenterhooks to see whether they make the 5% cut. And a very good result for the Greens. AfD performs reasonably well, but the CSU's (and FW's) innate conservatism makes it hard for them to make much more ground.0 -
Sherpas were named in honour of the Leyland vanLordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Leyland_Sherpa0 -
Milk mountains? Sounds a bit improbable.LordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:
Although we know all Eurocrats love to go through the wine lakes.0 -
I think they are called Sherpas because they do all the work and their political masters claim all the glory.LordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I wonder if this is linked to air pollution in Cities. German Government has been attacked for being too soft on car producers and rectifying the cars to be less polluting.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
You mean you require those easy routes?!?Sunil_Prasannan said:RMT tossers at Northern Rail still striking every Saturday, precluding any attempt to either Retford - Brigg - Barnetby OR Stockport - Guide Bridge
0 -
It is certainly true that with all party agreement the UK could be included in FTAs. But being in a customs union does not give you access to FTAs - a free trade area is a separate concept as the paper explains. It is also quite true that the EU can unilaterally take actions against the UKs interests. The whole purpose of the EU forcing the UK into a CU is to maintain the huge surplus in traded goods in favour of the EU and stop the UK out competing against the EU - something they are in a perfect position to maintain if we are in a CU over which we have no control whatsoever.rcs1000 said:
I disagree, and that document talks about Turkey, which is not a signatory to the EU's customs deals so is not directly relevant.archer101au said:
See this legal analysis, which I think confirms the position I have set out:
https://lawyersforbritain.org/staying-in-the-eu-customs-union-after-exit
There are two reasons why I believe you are wrong.
Firstly, the government's own legal advice is that we remain party to the EU's trade deals through the transition or implementation period.
Secondly, looking longer term and taking the treaty with Canada as our template. It will need to be amended post Brexit in all circumstances. (And treaties are revised with minutae all the time.) The power of inertia, which you rightly worry about, works in our favour here. Amending the treaty so that the UK remains party as part of the EU customs union is no more effort than removing the UK from the deal altogether.
So, could Canada choose to say "no", the UK cannot be a part of the amended treaty? Yes, they could. But given they - we would hope - would want a Free Trade Agreement with us, and it's less hassle to say yes, why would they?
Overall it seems to me that it is a ridiculous position for a country such as the UK to voluntarily enter.0 -
That's definitely a possibility, the German government had been extremely soft on their car companies caught cheating the emissions testing. Might be something that drives people from the SPD and CDU to the Greens. That and Merkel's renewed use of coal power.ralphmalph said:
I wonder if this is linked to air pollution in Cities. German Government has been attacked for being too soft on car producers and rectifying the cars to be less polluting.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU0 -
Saturdays only, man!SandyRentool said:
You mean you require those easy routes?!?Sunil_Prasannan said:RMT tossers at Northern Rail still striking every Saturday, precluding any attempt to either Retford - Brigg - Barnetby OR Stockport - Guide Bridge
(they changed the Stockport one from Fridays a few months ago - though there is a southbound service as well as the northbound one)0 -
Didn't she shut all the Nuke plants?MaxPB said:
That's definitely a possibility, the German government had been extremely soft on their car companies caught cheating the emissions testing. Might be something that drives people from the SPD and CDU to the Greens. That and Merkel's renewed use of coal power.ralphmalph said:
I wonder if this is linked to air pollution in Cities. German Government has been attacked for being too soft on car producers and rectifying the cars to be less polluting.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
In another world I could easily see how addressing them as such could be seen as a derogatory insult.David_Evershed said:AndyJS said:"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d
Why not use it instead of he or she? It is a perfectly sound pronoun.0 -
No, the UK as a whole voted to Leave the EU it is only NI which also voted for the GFA and hence that also needs to be respected in delivering BrexitJonathan said:
Surely we get a vote too.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum on NI this week to be held in early November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.SouthamObserver said:
If I were in the Dg.HYUFD said:
It does not erect a border with tariffs between GB and NI as the whole UK reat to the Union than keeping NI in the SM and CURobD said:
No, but it erects a border between two parts of the UK.HYUFD said:
So there would still be no tariffs then and no hard border in Ireland which is what most voters in NI wantarcher101au said:
RobD is correct; HYUFD is wrong. If NI is in the EU SM they would not be part of the UK SM. There would be a regulatory barrier between the two and goods could not move without friction between GB and NI The fact that there would be no tariffs does not change this.HYUFD said:
Given the whole UK would be in the Customs Union there would still be no tariffs between NI and GBRobD said:
Aren't NI currently in a single market with the rest of the UK? Surely they'd have to leave that in order to stay in one with the EU.HYUFD said:
The CU for the UK is preferred by most voters to No Deal and the CU and SM in NI is preferred by most NI voters to a hard border, if a hard border in NI that will be a boost to Nationalists and if No Deal for the UK that will be a huge boost to the SNP and the Yes to Scottish independence campaign posing a far greater threat to the UKstodge said:
Could you, as a Conservative and a Unionist, support a deal which keeps the CU for the UK and the SM for Northern Ireland?HYUFD said:If there is a Deal agreed and passed by Parliament then May will still be there, if not then Corbyn could well be PM this time next year and the 2019 Tory Party Conference will be addressed not by the PM but by the Leader of the Opposition
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
0 -
If we're on binary and non binary I suspect any deal on the customs union to very much be neither with the devil in the detail.
The EU know perfectly well that May couldn't sell an indefinite full customs union for the UK back home and survive, so they won't.0 -
Yes, and that meant reopening all of the coal plants which are ultimately more polluting.Floater said:
Didn't she shut all the Nuke plants?MaxPB said:
That's definitely a possibility, the German government had been extremely soft on their car companies caught cheating the emissions testing. Might be something that drives people from the SPD and CDU to the Greens. That and Merkel's renewed use of coal power.ralphmalph said:
I wonder if this is linked to air pollution in Cities. German Government has been attacked for being too soft on car producers and rectifying the cars to be less polluting.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Well CSU + SPD is on 44.5% so lacks a majority too and CSU+Greens would be deeply unpopular with both their party basesMaxPB said:
Three party coalitions are usually very unstable, especially if they have a thin majority.HYUFD said:
CSU + FW + FDP comfortably over 50% on 52% combined. Abysmal result for the SPD falling behind both the Greens and the AfDAlanbrooke said:CSU - 35%
Grrens -19%
SPD - 9.5%
AfD - 11%
FW - 11.5%
FDP 5%
CSU get a kicking SPD heading for oblivion0 -
Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing...TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered. 0 -
I first did Stalybridge - Stockport on the York - Shrewsbury overnight, back in 1985!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Saturdays only, man!SandyRentool said:
You mean you require those easy routes?!?Sunil_Prasannan said:RMT tossers at Northern Rail still striking every Saturday, precluding any attempt to either Retford - Brigg - Barnetby OR Stockport - Guide Bridge
(they changed the Stockport one from Fridays a few months ago - though there is a southbound service as well as the northbound one)0 -
Hi SunilSunil_Prasannan said:
Saturdays only, man!SandyRentool said:
You mean you require those easy routes?!?Sunil_Prasannan said:RMT tossers at Northern Rail still striking every Saturday, precluding any attempt to either Retford - Brigg - Barnetby OR Stockport - Guide Bridge
(they changed the Stockport one from Fridays a few months ago - though there is a southbound service as well as the northbound one)
I was wondering if you could help. At the moment, the Chase line from Birmingham to Rugeley is closed at weekends to complete the electrification project. I have been trying to find information on (a) when this will finish and (b) whether they are likely to meet he new timetabling deadline (they are already a year behind schedule and £10 million over budget, as ever). I've checked Network Rail's website and amazingly it is as unhelpful as a costing by Diane Abbott. Would you have any idea where I could find out more?0 -
It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.archer101au said:
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit0 -
Just getting bored with Brexit - we all are I guess. Wish we could turn back time....Floater said:
That staying classy promise went well then M :-)murali_s said:Jeez, ee still talking about the Brexit.
Yes, we know it's a calamity and all Brexiteers are thick moronic fantasists, but what's new?
And, good evening all.0 -
Presumably at the same time as the treesSunil_Prasannan said:
Sherpas were named in honour of the Leyland vanLordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Leyland_Sherpa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_cypress0 -
More to do with being pro-EU and anti Blood and Soil Nationalism.ralphmalph said:
I wonder if this is linked to air pollution in Cities. German Government has been attacked for being too soft on car producers and rectifying the cars to be less polluting.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
That is the definition of whether you are upper class or not, being upper middle class can be achieved merely by being in trade or a professionalviewcode said:
Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing...TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.0 -
In this case Donkeys would be far more appropriateDavidL said:
I think they are called Sherpas because they do all the work and their political masters claim all the glory.LordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.HYUFD said:
It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.archer101au said:
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit
0 -
Tell them to get a grip more like, they can wear a big badge if they want to be called something non specific.Casino_Royale said:
In another world I could easily see how addressing them as such could be seen as a derogatory insult.David_Evershed said:AndyJS said:"BBC staff told to use non‑binary pronouns
BBC staff have been told to use non- binary pronouns when addressing gender-fluid or transgender employees to ensure that the corporation does not develop a “heteronormative culture”.
The policy means that BBC workers will be encouraged to refer to non-binary colleagues as “they” or “them”, rather than “he” or “she”.
In addition heterosexual BBC staff will be asked to wear badges identifying themselves as “straight allies” to help their LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) colleagues."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25ffc92e-ce66-11e8-bde6-fae32479843d
Why not use it instead of he or she? It is a perfectly sound pronoun.0 -
As good Eurocrats perhaps we should go for 'asses?'malcolmg said:
In this case Donkeys would be far more appropriateDavidL said:
I think they are called Sherpas because they do all the work and their political masters claim all the glory.LordOfReason said:
Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?TheScreamingEagles said:
This moment must certainly be causing them allama though...0 -
There will be no hard border in NI as everyone from both sides has already confirmed. The common travel area will continue.HYUFD said:
It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.archer101au said:
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit
The people being reckless in respect of NI are Barnier and now May.
Allowing NI to remain in the SM will cause the same demand in Scotland, which is why Davidson (a Unionist) has threatened to resign if it happens.0 -
It's days are numbered in any case.SouthamObserver said:
To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.HYUFD said:
It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.archer101au said:
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit0 -
I tend to be mystified by the English obsession with class, but I'm pretty sure Clark liked to think of himself as upper rather than upper middle. Of course (as with so many other things) he may have been wrong about that, but I guess whatever social stratification Hesseltine resided in, AC was convinced he was above it.viewcode said:
Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing...TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.0 -
I'm not sure European democracy can survive fragmentation of big tent political parties into socio-cultural cleavages.AlastairMeeks said:
It risks making our politics more ferocious and tribal like in many developing countries.0 -
That's true. You can buy middle-classness and its subdivisions, but upperclassness must be inherited...HYUFD said:
That is the definition of whether you are upper class or not, being upper middle class can be achieved merely by being in trade or a professionalviewcode said:
Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing...TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered. 0 -
Do you not mean interbredviewcode said:
That's true. You can buy middle-classness and its subdivisions, but upperclassness must be inherited...HYUFD said:
That is the definition of whether you are upper class or not, being upper middle class can be achieved merely by being in trade or a professionalviewcode said:
Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing...TheScreamingEagles said:
I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.viewcode said:
Only middle-class people think that...TheScreamingEagles said:As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.
https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160
I still haven't recovered.0 -
Totally wrong, in my case.SouthamObserver said:
To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.HYUFD said:
It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.archer101au said:
Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.HYUFD said:
If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.
The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU
However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit0
