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  • ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Are they called Sherpas because they climb mountains? Butter mountains. Milk mountains. Soda fountain mountains?
    I think they are called Sherpas because they do all the work and their political masters claim all the glory.
    In this case Donkeys would be far more appropriate
    As good Eurocrats perhaps we should go for 'asses?'

    This moment must certainly be causing them allama though...
    An Alpaca of lies!
    To take their mind off it, perhaps they should have an evening at The Mule in rouge
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    "If you wish to resign from the Cabinet, press...1
    To instigate a vote of no confidence in Theresa May, press...2
    If you are a member of the DUP and wish to discuss upcoming budget votes, press...3
    For all other inquiries, please hold"
  • Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5
  • Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.

    The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    "Labour’s unelectability under Corbyn"

    Stopped reading there TBF

    Maybe you should keep reading - it might give you some insight to what the non-acolytes worry about....

    I would like to vote against the govt, but I have no options for doing so because Labour is in such a mess.
    Well they do have 600,000 members, an effective branch structure nearly everywhere outside Scotland, popular policies and in the last election got the biggest swing to a party since 1945. Okay they have lost some of their traditional base, are doing terribly in Scotland and their parliamentary representatives - through no fault of their own - have got out of step with the membership. But on the whole they aren't doing too badly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.

    The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
    The problem is that in it efforts to end the Tory divide over Europe, the Tories have divided the rest of the nation.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    In Bavaria CSU now projected to win 37.3%, Greens 17.7% and Free Voters 11%. Could be that a two party coalition could get a bare majority even if the FDP exceeds 5%.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
    The problem is that in it efforts to end the Tory divide over Europe, the Tories have divided the rest of the nation.
    But have they though? I don't hear that many people talking about Brexit and even fewer expressing strong opinions on it.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    We’re in the tunnel. Much posturing. Wake me up towards the end of November.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
    The problem is that in it efforts to end the Tory divide over Europe, the Tories have divided the rest of the nation.
    But have they though? I don't hear that many people talking about Brexit and even fewer expressing strong opinions on it.
    That is part of the divide, those that see Brexit as the defining issue of our times, and those who care little either way.

    For many, it is politicians navel gazing while real concerns are ignored. Jezza managed to take advantage last year, more by luck than judgement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493
    edited October 2018
    duplicate.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.

    The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers on not caring that Brexit might lead to the end of the Union. All the polling shows this. In the end, English nationalists care about England. Throw in a Labour party leadership (and membership, I’d hazard) that would clearly prefer a united Ireland and it could be the DUP ends up being its own worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
    Would that it were only them.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Baby boom 9 months on from 29 March.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    JohnO said:

    In Bavaria CSU now projected to win 37.3%, Greens 17.7% and Free Voters 11%. Could be that a two party coalition could get a bare majority even if the FDP exceeds 5%.

    Indeed. Now it is CSU with FW, SPD, AfD or Greens as viable 2 party coalitions.
    Suspect it will be the former. Although CSU won't be happy anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.

    https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160

    Only middle-class people think that... :)
    I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.

    I still haven't recovered.
    Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing... :)
    I tend to be mystified by the English obsession with class, but I'm pretty sure Clark like to think of himself as upper rather than upper middle. Of course (as with so many other things) he may have been wrong about that, but I guess whatever social stratification Hesseltine resided in, AC was convinced he was above it.
    Whatever else he may, or may not have been, socially, Alan Clarke certainly lacked any sort of class when it came to the treatment of women and particularly teenage girls.
    Well, quite.

    And, given that his family money came from trade, he was in no position to be snobbish about Heseltine. Or anyone else.

    He was, on a personal level, a total shit.

    But he did write some very good diaries.
    Snobs are rarely charming.
    True 'class' rarely has anything to do with birth, privilege or wealth. I have known people of true working-class with barely two ha'pennys to rub together who act with more dignity than others who see themselves as upper-class and superior.

    IMO what matters is who you act towards others, especially those who are less fortunate in whatever way than yourself. That's something people who think themselves as 'upper-class' too often forget. Clark was a classic example. An odious man who could write well.

    See also, Mr Johnson, B.
    Indeed.

    My aunts used to say that good manners were, fundamentally, about kindness to others.
    Reminds me of times long ago when I was sent, unjustly, to detention

    600 lines of

    Manners maketh Man

    True in the 1950's - true today
    On which topic: that which detractors label 'political correctness' is usually no more than informed politeness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493
    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,204

    "If you wish to resign from the Cabinet, press...1
    To instigate a vote of no confidence in Theresa May, press...2
    If you are a member of the DUP and wish to discuss upcoming budget votes, press...3
    For all other inquiries, please hold"

    :D:D:D
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    Marcus Fysh MP. Where did the poor man get that? Reminds me of the ex MP for Shipley affectionately known by Private Eye as Sir Marcus Fu*ks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Baby boom 9 months on from 29 March.
    Are you saying we're f**ked?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Keep calm and carry on

  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Baby boom 9 months on from 29 March.
    Are you saying we're f**ked?
    Are you voting for this as best PB pun evah?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    If I were May I think I would announce a referendum in NI this week to be held in early/mid November as to whether they want to ensure they remain in the SM and CU after Brexit or if they only want to Leave the EU on exactly the same terms as GB even if that means leaving the SM.

    The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectt have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.

    Is this the most depressing thread ever on PB?

    A nation divided, confused and angry.
    No that's the Tory party.
    The problem is that in it efforts to end the Tory divide over Europe, the Tories have divided the rest of the nation.
    TBH - there was a lot of anti EU feeling in the Country.

    The tories just happened to be carrying the ball when the vote came.

    I can think of another party who offered a vote, i'm sure you can too.

  • Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:




    The DUP would be free to campaign for the latter option of course. She would only agree a Deal with the EU if the Referendum resulted in a Yes vote for staying in the SM and CU

    Yeah, because a referendum on whether NI should be economically separated from the Union is not likely to lead to sectarian division. Not smart.
    It is creating a hard border in NI by taking the province out of the SM and CU that will create a sectarian division and potentially create a majority for a United Ireland as all the polling shows.


    However I know you don't care about that, just as you don't care about Scotland leaving the UK, just as you don't care about crashing the economy with a No Deal Brexit

    To be fair, Archer is with most Tory Leavers worst enemy.

    It’s a peculiar kind of nationalism that says the majority verdict of 12% of the nation (Scotland and NI) should trump the majority verdict of 88% of the nation (England and Wales).

    If Brexit causes the Scots to go for independence, that is no-one’s decision but theirs. Then again, I don’t know why I’m bothering to say this; it isn’t Leavers that have a problem with self-determination.
    I'd put it slightly differently: I'm a passionate unionist but, if the only thing holding the union together today is our membership of the European Union, then our union died some time ago.

    I think what leaving the EU shows above all else is that we have a Union in which England is utterly dominant and that the wishes of other parts of the UK will always be subordinate. In the end that will spell the end of the affair. That is sad, but probably necessary.


    Labour’s unelectability under Corbyn contributes to the problem. Left of centre Scots know that he virtually guarantees an increasingly right wing, English nationalist Tory government in Westminster. Given that, what’s the argument for continuing to back the Union? Corbyn himself would be happy see an independent Scotland and delighted to see a united Ireland.

    "Labour’s unelectability under Corbyn"

    Stopped reading there TBF
    There's the possibility he might be on to something?

    OT. Just been in the packed centre of Nice and there was a busker singing the best rendition of New York New York I've ever heard. People were dancing and singing along in an accent that would even make Liam Fox melt.

    God I loathe these English Nationalists.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,204
    edited October 2018

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    If only she'd stuck with David Davis and hadn't been drawn in by Robbins.
  • Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Someone trying to ramp the pressure on May bullshitting to the type of journalist who also likes giving her a hard time, but they have no evidence as this thing is wisely kept secret. Truth is we are on the verge of May getting her loyalists to get the letters in as a means of giving the ERG a damn good thrashing. Ref, Carlotta’s previous avatar.
  • Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Someone trying to ramp the pressure on May bullshitting to the type of journalist who also likes giving her a hard time, but they have no evidence as this thing is wisely kept secret. Truth is we are on the verge of May getting her loyalists to get the letters in as a means of giving the ERG a damn good thrashing. Ref, Carlotta’s previous avatar.
    Shipman's source. But he's also been told other things.

    If you're talking about a coup, you're losing.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    If only she'd stuck with David Davis and hadn't been drawn in by Robbins.
    hahhahahahaha
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup. The religious police who beat women for clothes violations would have to get proper jobs
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,406
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
  • Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
    As a matter of interest how do you change it to scrolling upwards ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
    As a matter of interest how do you change it to scrolling upwards ?
    Use the up arrow instead of the down arrow? :wink:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Divvie

    Great map, but weird that there is no option to be Northern Irish for people of NI. Surely a certain slice of the population identity as NI rather than Ireland or Britain?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493
    edited October 2018
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup. The religious police who beat women for clothes violations would have to get proper jobs
    Whilst I would not shed many tears, the coup is more likely to be by hardline Wahabists than progressive forces. The Saudis are likely to get some blowback themselves.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
  • Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
    As a matter of interest how do you change it to scrolling upwards ?
    Use the up arrow instead of the down arrow? :wink:
    Not sure how that puts the newest post on top. I am using vanilla as the tweets do not work on my samsung tablet

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Johnson has a similar approach to journalism to Dan Hodges. Write exactly the same story every week and receive a salary. Efficient use of time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    GIN1138 said:

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    If only she'd stuck with David Davis and hadn't been drawn in by Robbins.
    An alternative view is Robbins went off-piste.

    I have absolutely no idea.

    Indeed, I am losing the will to live over all this, and I am, along with many PBers a political obsessive.

  • Boris personal propaganda broad sheet. I just do not understand Boris or Davis thinking but then that has been absent throughout their time in the cabinet
  • Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    “Anything I missed?”

    Alpaca.

    Sherpas led by Donkeys so yesterday. Tomorrow is Alpaca.

    No belching, no farting destroying the planet. They can’t even bite. And Alpaca meat is one of the healthiest and most flavourful meat’s in the world. The meat is lean, tender, and rich in proteins, but also low in fat & has the lowest level of cholesterol of any meat. To taste it is akin to a succulent cut of beef, but with a hint of sweetness.

    Some of them in this vice video would be quite splendid in a casserole. In a bun. Or just stuffed in a pepper.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwL7xUC6LqQ

    And you can lay there at night in the winter, with your silky socks on, thinking of her flashing her pretty eyelashes at you, all the good times you had together. Well, the likes of Alan Clarke probably would.

    Forget about political betting, invest what you can in Alpacas.

    Hope this helps
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,136
    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    edited October 2018
    Anazina said:

    Johnson has a similar approach to journalism to Dan Hodges. Write exactly the same story every week and receive a salary. Efficient use of time.
    At least Hodges is not angling to be PM at the same time, and could actually do useful things around political events.

    Still, punditry of that nature does look very easy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,406

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
    As a matter of interest how do you change it to scrolling upwards ?
    Use the up arrow instead of the down arrow? :wink:
    Not sure how that puts the newest post on top. I am using vanilla as the tweets do not work on my samsung tablet

    Ah, I’m reading on the regular site. I don’t know if you can flip the order on vanilla.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup. The religious police who beat women for clothes violations would have to get proper jobs
    Whilst I would not shed many tears, the coup is more likely to be by hardline Wahabists than progressive forces. The Saudis are likely to get some blowback themselves.

    And indeed it would be unlikely to be the end of the House of Saud. Palace Coup is, I feel, the appropriate phrase.
    Roll back the progressive (by Saudi standards), domestic reforms, and be a little more conventional and predictable overseas.
    With a Prince in charge, as ever, to allow his relatives to raid the treasury as before.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
  • Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    I have planned a trip to the EU in Feb, but am holding back plans for later in the year.

    I suspect that Brexit will be not with a bang, but rather a whimper, but who really knows?

    I think Saudi may be what the rest of the world is interested in over the next weeks. Are we ready for the fall of the House of Saud? Rumours of a coup brewing.
    It would be difficult to think of a regime more deserving of a coup.
    I read this scrolling upwards and thought you were talking about toppling May.
    As a matter of interest how do you change it to scrolling upwards ?
    Use the up arrow instead of the down arrow? :wink:
    Not sure how that puts the newest post on top. I am using vanilla as the tweets do not work on my samsung tablet

    Ah, I’m reading on the regular site. I don’t know if you can flip the order on vanilla.
    Thanks William. I do usually but for some reason the tweets etc do not embed in the posts
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596

    Ed Balls is predicting it will go down to the wire before BINO.
    https://twitter.com/brexit/status/1051562682581581824?s=21

    We could do with Ed back in parliament.

    Also, OT, just watched last week's documentary on the RBS crash... thank God it was Brown and Darling in the hot seats in 2008. Had this current mob been in power the economy would have frozen on 8 October 2008 while they spent the next two years arguing over what to do about it.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited October 2018

    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I'm not such a big fan of cliffhangers in the Brexit context, and the less said about killing off main characters the better.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.

    https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160

    Only middle-class people think that... :)
    I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.

    I still haven't recovered.
    Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing... :)
    I tend to be mystified by the English obsession with class, but I'm pretty sure Clark like to think of himself as upper rather than upper middle. Of course (as with so many other things) he may have been wrong about that, but I guess whatever social stratification Hesseltine resided in, AC was convinced he was above it.
    Whatever else he may, or may not have been, socially, Alan Clarke certainly lacked any sort of class when it came to the treatment of women and particularly teenage girls.
    That’s harsh

    He was in a class of his own...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I am wrong and I'll be happy to acknowledge it in that case.

    I look forward to you admitting the error of your judgement when No Deal proves to be a complete sh*tstorm - it will be a very small compensation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    Quincel said:

    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I'm not such a big fan of cliffhangers in the Brexit context, and the less said about killing off main characters the better.
    Although it would have helped if it had only lasted 6 weeks.
  • Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I thought Whitney Houston was fantastic in The Bodyguard.
  • TonyTony Posts: 159

    Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Was in Shipman's article this morning.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    As a fellow Yorkshireman, he should know that people with class don't talk about class.

    https://twitter.com/scottishlabour/status/1051389143287132160

    Only middle-class people think that... :)
    I was recently described as a member of the 'upper middle classes'.

    I still haven't recovered.
    Did you buy your own furniture? If I recall Alan Clarke correctly, that's the big thing... :)
    That is the definition of whether you are upper class or not, being upper middle class can be achieved merely by being in trade or a professional
    That's true. You can buy middle-classness and its subdivisions, but upperclassness must be inherited... :(
    Do you not mean interbred
    Shame on you for even suggesting such a thing... :)
    There was a population study in the early 90s when zero responders claimed to be upper class (vs 4% in the 60s)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    dixiedean said:

    Quincel said:

    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I'm not such a big fan of cliffhangers in the Brexit context, and the less said about killing off main characters the better.
    Although it would have helped if it had only lasted 6 weeks.
    A damp squib ending would be good too.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363

    dixiedean said:

    Quincel said:

    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I'm not such a big fan of cliffhangers in the Brexit context, and the less said about killing off main characters the better.
    Although it would have helped if it had only lasted 6 weeks.
    A damp squib ending would be good too.
    Yep. Bad guys and girls rounded up and imprisoned, and we all live as a happy family again...
  • TonyTony Posts: 159

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    Alternatively this could be part of an elaborate attempt to force the EU to drop the permanent backstop. I struggle to believe May really thought she could railroad a permanent CU though.

    May - "Look I tried really hard to accept the backstop , but the DUP / ERG won't let me, I've got no way of passing the Withdrawal bill with it in"

    Your choice EU27 , give up on the backstop for ever plan , or it'll be a no deal Brexit.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    Tony said:

    Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Was in Shipman's article this morning.
    But, 1922 chair has said he will go back to owners of some older letters and check they still mean it.

    If May goes, it will be because she can no longer command a Cabinet, not the letters.
  • An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

    Very interesting and entirely plausable

    I think many on here and in her party underestimate how the public view her and the impossible job she has.

    Replacing her is no silver bullet
  • Tony said:

    Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Was in Shipman's article this morning.
    But, 1922 chair has said he will go back to owners of some older letters and check they still mean it.

    If May goes, it will be because she can no longer command a Cabinet, not the letters.
    And 150 plus of her mps
  • TonyTony Posts: 159

    Tony said:

    Hearing that 44 letters have been submitted to the 1922 committee just 4 short but can't find a source for that other than the Mirror which itself doesn't give a source. Anyone know if this is the case or not, or who has claimed this?

    Was in Shipman's article this morning.
    But, 1922 chair has said he will go back to owners of some older letters and check they still mean it.

    If May goes, it will be because she can no longer command a Cabinet, not the letters.
    As has been discussed before they'd be stupid to put in 48 letters, as they'd lose the vote and she'd be safe for 12 months. When you come for the king you best not miss.

    The only real way to get rid of May quickly would be for her to lose a commons vonc.
    With the inherent risks of that going very wrong.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518

    An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

    Very interesting and entirely plausable

    I think many on here and in her party underestimate how the public view her and the impossible job she has.

    Replacing her is no silver bullet
    Indeed.

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quincel said:

    Brexit is better than The Bodyguard.

    Discuss.

    I'm not such a big fan of cliffhangers in the Brexit context, and the less said about killing off main characters the better.
    Although it would have helped if it had only lasted 6 weeks.
    A damp squib ending would be good too.
    Yep. Bad guys and girls rounded up and imprisoned, and we all live as a happy family again...
    Indeed, that would be good. Also though, I'd prefer if it could differ from The Bodyguard by not leaving open the possibility of a second series.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I am wrong and I'll be happy to acknowledge it in that case.

    I look forward to you admitting the error of your judgement when No Deal proves to be a complete sh*tstorm - it will be a very small compensation.
    Because the kind of outcomes posited by the more ludicrous Remainers would be tantamount to a declaration of war by the EU. Ain’t gonna happen
  • An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

    Very interesting and entirely plausable

    I think many on here and in her party underestimate how the public view her and the impossible job she has.

    Replacing her is no silver bullet
    Indeed.

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.
    I think the photograph of her standing to the side with her red jacket while the hoards of male EU leaders bore down on her was just terrible for the EU, along with Tusk's childish offering of cake with no cherries. Utterly crass and insensitive, especially as she is diabetic

    Anyway time to go

    Have a good nights rest everyone

    Good night folks
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596

    An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

    Very interesting and entirely plausable

    I think many on here and in her party underestimate how the public view her and the impossible job she has.

    Replacing her is no silver bullet
    Indeed.

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.
    I think the photograph of her standing to the side with her red jacket while the hoards of male EU leaders bore down on her was just terrible for the EU, along with Tusk's childish offering of cake with no cherries. Utterly crass and insensitive, especially as she is diabetic

    Anyway time to go

    Have a good nights rest everyone

    Good night folks
    Good night to you too Big_G!
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    Pretty much. I think May's play now is to put something on the table which doesn't get her VONCed or have the DUP bring down the government, then hope that Labour rebels outnumber the Tory/DUP rebels on the big vote. But she seems to be struggling to even complete part 1 of that cunning plan.

    We really seem to be approaching the event horizon now and I'm struggling to see what lies beyond. It's not impossible that the above will pan out, but it's looking less and less likely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493
    Tony said:

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    Alternatively this could be part of an elaborate attempt to force the EU to drop the permanent backstop. I struggle to believe May really thought she could railroad a permanent CU though.

    May - "Look I tried really hard to accept the backstop , but the DUP / ERG won't let me, I've got no way of passing the Withdrawal bill with it in"

    Your choice EU27 , give up on the backstop for ever plan , or it'll be a no deal Brexit.
    What is it that makes you think that May is capable of subtlety or flexibility?

    As we all know "Nothing has changed!"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518

    An anecdote summary from some extended family who visited this weekend. And although they mainly all scan the papers and catch the news headlines, are not political types. Swing voters, pretty middle England, liked Blair/Brown, hate Corbyn, respect John Major etc etc.


    1. Off the scale angry at the way May was treated at the Salzburg meeting. I mean really really pissed at how she, and therefore UK, was treated and the bad photos of her standing alone. (I had no idea how bad the optics of this looked to the average voter).

    2. Some were Remainers who are now heading to Leave, because of a feeling that EU are being bullies and not dealing with us well. "Perhaps the UK made the right decision after all"

    3. Don't trust Boris, think he is in it for himself.

    4. Think the red bus was a pack of lies, although at the time they were at least prepared to give the idea the NHS would get more money a listen.

    5. Blame Boris exclusively for No.4 i.e. it was the Boris bus. He designed it. It was his idea.

    6. Respect and like May and feel she is in an impossible situation and this is not helped by Boris and his scheming. She is "doing her duty".

    7. Like reading articles by leading Leavers who argue that it will be great and there is nothing to worry about (but only because they feel that without these viewpoints they would not be sleeping at night).

    8. Not convinced by my arguments that this is an economic disaster we have brought upon ourselves. They blame EU far more than UK.

    Very interesting and entirely plausable

    I think many on here and in her party underestimate how the public view her and the impossible job she has.

    Replacing her is no silver bullet
    Indeed.

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.
    I think the photograph of her standing to the side with her red jacket while the hoards of male EU leaders bore down on her was just terrible for the EU, along with Tusk's childish offering of cake with no cherries. Utterly crass and insensitive, especially as she is diabetic

    Anyway time to go

    Have a good nights rest everyone

    Good night folks
    Sleep well.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,406

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.

    Interesting that they picked up on that bit specifically, which was just a fluke of the venue and logistics, rather than the substantive things around Chequers being rejected.

    May's been outside the room for part of the Council meetings ever since 2016 so that was nothing new.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Who ever would have thought that a Sir Humphrey style white posh boy like Robbins could so badly misjudge the mood of the nation.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    I think all these things will be useful in any event.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518

    As ever, when I engage with people who do not spend hours on PB, or read newspapers from cover to cover, I am amazed at how important glancing optics are e.g. the photo of May standing alone at EU conference.

    Interesting that they picked up on that bit specifically, which was just a fluke of the venue and logistics, rather than the substantive things around Chequers being rejected.

    May's been outside the room for part of the Council meetings ever since 2016 so that was nothing new.
    But that's my point. We all know masses of detail. Most voters do not.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    I think all these things will be useful in any event.

    I am stockpiling on food. Spare room is slowly being filled.

    Let's hope my friends are right and I am a pessimistic nutjob...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I am wrong and I'll be happy to acknowledge it in that case.

    I look forward to you admitting the error of your judgement when No Deal proves to be a complete sh*tstorm - it will be a very small compensation.
    Because the kind of outcomes posited by the more ludicrous Remainers would be tantamount to a declaration of war by the EU. Ain’t gonna happen
    There really has been some utterly hysterical bollocks spouted on here and tbf in the media about what will happen.

    Yes Faizal Islam - I am looking at you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    Tony said:

    Brexit talks reached a dramatic stand-off in Brussels on Sunday night, after Theresa May warned that a draft treaty to take Britain out of the EU was a “non-starter” and risked tearing her government apart.

    Mrs May despatched Dominic Raab, her Brexit secretary, to Brussels to make clear that she could not sign up to the current terms for Britain’s exit at a European Council meeting on Wednesday.

    Mr Raab returned home after tense talks with Michel Barnier, the EU chief negotiator, lasting only an hour; no further talks are scheduled ahead of the summit, raising the prospect of a complete breakdown in the Brexit process.

    EU leaders may conclude there is not sufficient progress to justify proceeding to a special Brexit summit in November to seal a deal, leaving talks in limbo and Britain heading towards an economically damaging “no deal” exit next March.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e5ecd62a-cfcc-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

    Let's just review what has happened. May briefed Robbins to make yet more concessions to get a deal, based on an indefinite CU backstop. May had no Cabinet backing for such a huge concession and had never discussed this with her senior ministers. She calls in a handpicked team of ministers on Thursday and is apparently stunned to find out that locking the UK into the CU forever might be a bit of a problem. Nobody seems to have bothered to clear this with the DUP, on whom her majority depends.

    Robbins apparently keeps negotiating regardless. The EU leak that a deal is ready. And then, when the officials have agreed it, Raab runs over to Brussels to basically tell Barnier that there is no way politically May can sign up to what she has told her officials to negotiate.

    What an utter, utter shambles. May needs to resign. Now.
    Alternatively this could be part of an elaborate attempt to force the EU to drop the permanent backstop. I struggle to believe May really thought she could railroad a permanent CU though.

    May - "Look I tried really hard to accept the backstop , but the DUP / ERG won't let me, I've got no way of passing the Withdrawal bill with it in"

    Your choice EU27 , give up on the backstop for ever plan , or it'll be a no deal Brexit.
    Except it won't as every poll conducted on a No Deal Brexit shows a majority of voters will not accept it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    Any chance of the SPD pulling out of this tailspin? As an outsider it seems like if they wait until the next schedule elections there may not be much of an SPD left.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Ed Balls is predicting it will go down to the wire before BINO.
    https://twitter.com/brexit/status/1051562682581581824?s=21

    We could do with Ed back in parliament.

    Also, OT, just watched last week's documentary on the RBS crash... thank God it was Brown and Darling in the hot seats in 2008. Had this current mob been in power the economy would have frozen on 8 October 2008 while they spent the next two years arguing over what to do about it.
    You might want to think about those events again.

    Gordon really didn't save the world.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    But the media will howl and howl about how bad things are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    So the biggest move in Bavaria was indeed from the CSU to the AfD
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493
    Floater said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I am wrong and I'll be happy to acknowledge it in that case.

    I look forward to you admitting the error of your judgement when No Deal proves to be a complete sh*tstorm - it will be a very small compensation.
    Because the kind of outcomes posited by the more ludicrous Remainers would be tantamount to a declaration of war by the EU. Ain’t gonna happen
    There really has been some utterly hysterical bollocks spouted on here and tbf in the media about what will happen.

    Yes Faizal Islam - I am looking at you.
    Most of it has come from government briefings!

    https://twitter.com/theipaper/status/1051105273081946112?s=19

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    Floater said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    So. How should individuals prepare for a No Deal Brexit?

    - Replenish the larder
    - No holidays abroad post 30/3/2019
    - Move investments abroad or into non-sterling currencies
    - Get bicycles into good working order.
    - Get delivery of my new kitchen (from Dutch suppliers) well before March
    - Plant winter veg
    - Stock up on candles and cardigans
    - Avoid Kent
    - Prepare cutting remarks for any Tory canvassers knocking on my door

    As an EU citizen do I get special priority for food / medicine parcels from the EU?

    Anything I've missed?

    Buy a blanket to hide your blushes when none of this proves necessary
    ... because No Deal won't happen, or because No Deal won't cause any issues?
    Because any issues will be minor and transitory
    I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I am wrong and I'll be happy to acknowledge it in that case.

    I look forward to you admitting the error of your judgement when No Deal proves to be a complete sh*tstorm - it will be a very small compensation.
    Because the kind of outcomes posited by the more ludicrous Remainers would be tantamount to a declaration of war by the EU. Ain’t gonna happen
    There really has been some utterly hysterical bollocks spouted on here and tbf in the media about what will happen.

    Yes Faizal Islam - I am looking at you.
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1051559785815044096?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    HYUFD said:
    Sounds ridiculously sensible.

    Has he not heard that most of his party have completely lost their heads?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    kle4 said:

    Any chance of the SPD pulling out of this tailspin? As an outsider it seems like if they wait until the next schedule elections there may not be much of an SPD left.
    There is some interesting polling on the ZDF election site previously linked to. The SPD are winning their votes from the old. Greens from the young. Indeed the Greens were only 2% behind CSU amongst under 30s. They are rapidly being replaced as the left of centre party.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    HYUFD said:

    So the biggest move in Bavaria was indeed from the CSU to the AfD
    And from SPD to Greens.
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