Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
To be fair I would rather have Corbyn as PM now than a diehard Remainer, at least he gives a bit of respect to democracy
You really have flipped tonight
No I mean it.
Corbyn will only be for a term or two. If diehard Remainers manage to overturn the referendum result they will not stop there but see it as a mandate to sign up the UK ultimately to the Eurozone and a Federal EU with no further democratic mandate required.
It would be the end of the UK in effect as an independent country, we would just become a state of the EU
You have lost it tonight. Grab a horlicks and calm down.
Nothing is worse than suggested Corbyn will be a one or even two term PM
Permanently being signed up to an EU Superstate is worse for me I am afraid, Mogg has said preserving Brexit is more important than stopping Corbyn
It is not going to happen. TM will do a deal
I hope so but clearly some diehard Remainers will keep pushing to reverse Brexit regardless and they must be resisted
I think you're proving that the effect I predicted of Tory loyalists feeling compelled to back Brexit for as long as it remains taboo to rethink is real. If it became Tory policy to hold a second referendum, a lot of people like you would suddenly have different choices to make.
One of the biggest charlatans, chancers, hypocrites and deeply unpleasant politicians this side of Corbyn being brought down at last ? Yes it is utterly delicious.
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
Err - it's labour supporters and journalists attacking Corbyn. My twitter feed is full of well known labour supporters going for him, not one conservative
No need to get involved as labour implodes
It's not only Labour people involved, but there are plenty of them, but in any case I don't see why one side would stop attacking the other if they think the attacks are valid (and will work on enough of the electorate) even if it also seems to be firing up the attacked person's supporters.
The Labour membership is hugely impressive, and that it was not, for instance, a one year surge.
"The Labour membership is hugely impressive" - indeed. All wallowing in a pool of self-indulgency and conspiracy theories. At some point they will realise (or perhaps not) that beyond the boundaries of the pool in which they swim, lies another pool...the pool where the electorate live.
Well, maybe, but gaining and retaining that many people to sign up as members is still an achievement.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
You think Corbyn is more vulnerable than Trump? No fan of either but I'd say that's a bold call.
Hmm Corbyn might go before Trump, but when you look at the levels below.. say Pence and McDonnell, Pence is just a very conservative republican (Wouldn't say he is Trumpite) whereas McDonnell is a definite Corbynite. Corbyn's legacy will be longer lasting and more enduring on the Labour party (Changes in the NEC etc) than Trump's - which is the erratic, albeit strong force of really just Trump himself.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
To be fair what's happening over there is important, it's not a trivial matter that the "leader of the free world" is an unhinged treasonous crook with his finger on the button.
“Too many people in positions of power behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street. But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t even understand what the word ‘citizenship’ means”
It’s quite clear that she is saying people need to contribute and engage with their community and society
Absolutely. And my point is that she did that in a way that anybody with an ounce of empathy for metropolitans would have known would get misinterpreted when, inevitably, it was reported out of context. Again, I'm not claiming, as Alistair does, that she was expressing an anti-Remainer sentiment. I'm saying the fact that she didn't realise how this would be wrongly interpreted is evidence of a lack of empathy.
Hmm. I’d go much further than that. It’s not possible to take that sentence “if you believe you are a citizen of the world...” out of context. It’s crystal clear that she believes those who are internationalist in their outlook are citizens of nowhere. It’s clear because she said it. The padding around it is little more than duck and cover.
No - she is clearly refering to people who "behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the street"
That's not the same as internationalist in outlook - it's divorcing yourself from the local community. Of course it's a case of n=1, but our family is extremely global in outlook, but are always careful to remain strongly roots and engaged with our local communities in the West Country and in Farringdon Without.
You have again just analysed the padding. Read this sentence back: “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere.”
Okay, I consider myself a citizen of the world. Do you agree with May that I am therefore a citizen of nowhere?
Stephen Bush did a really great article earlier on this week touching on Labour’s issues, the likelihood of a split, and the difficulties of challenging Corbyn.
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
To be fair I would rather have Corbyn as PM now than a diehard Remainer, at least he gives a bit of respect to democracy
You really have flipped tonight
No I mean it.
Corbyn will only be for a term or two. If diehard Remainers manage to overturn the referendum result they will not stop there but see it as a mandate to sign up the UK ultimately to the Eurozone and a Federal EU with no further democratic mandate required.
It would be the end of the UK in effect as an independent country, we would just become a state of the EU
You have lost it tonight. Grab a horlicks and calm down.
Nothing is worse than suggested Corbyn will be a one or even two term PM
Permanently being signed up to an EU Superstate is worse for me I am afraid, Mogg has said preserving Brexit is more important than stopping Corbyn
It is not going to happen. TM will do a deal
I hope so but clearly some diehard Remainers will keep pushing to reverse Brexit regardless and they must be resisted
I think you're proving that the effect I predicted of Tory loyalists feeling compelled to back Brexit for as long as it remains taboo to rethink is real. If it became Tory policy to hold a second referendum, a lot of people like you would suddenly have different choices to make.
Most Tory voters would simply defect an masse to UKIP or a new pro Brexit party if the Tories tried to reverse Brexit, at the end of the day country would come before party and we would end up with a Canada 1993 or European elections 2014 type situation and the Tories falling to third
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
You found somewhere good to eat in Llanelli? Top place there Wetherspoons. Says it all.
“Too many people in positions of power behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street. But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t even understand what the word ‘citizenship’ means”
It’s quite clear that she is saying people need to contribute and engage with their community and society
Absolutely. And my point is that she did that in a way that anybody with an ounce of empathy for metropolitans would have known would get misinterpreted when, inevitably, it was reported out of context. Again, I'm not claiming, as Alistair does, that she was expressing an anti-Remainer sentiment. I'm saying the fact that she didn't realise how this would be wrongly interpreted is evidence of a lack of empathy.
Hmm. I’d go much further than that. It’s not possible to take that sentence “if you believe you are a citizen of the world...” out of context. It’s crystal clear that she believes those who are internationalist in their outlook are citizens of nowhere. It’s clear because she said it. The padding around it is little more than duck and cover.
No - she is clearly refering to people who "behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the street"
That's not the same as internationalist in outlook - it's divorcing yourself from the local community. Of course it's a case of n=1, but our family is extremely global in outlook, but are always careful to remain strongly roots and engaged with our local communities in the West Country and in Farringdon Without.
IMO she was talking about the Richard Bransons and the Philip Greens, the Starbucks and Googles of this world, who make good profits from British business but manage to mostly avoid paying tax on it.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
You think Corbyn is more vulnerable than Trump? No fan of either but I'd say that's a bold call.
It's bloody difficult to get rid of Trump if the GOP dig their heels in.
By contrast, getting rid of Corbyn has already proven near impossible.
Indeed, it is completely impossible. The simple truth is there is no way to unseat him because the current leader does not have to seek nominations. This was the key factor that was tested in the courts last time. The rules were apparently not written into the party’s constitution because it was assumed that no-one would ever remain leader without commanding the support of the PLP. Surely that is a strong candidate for the most damaging regulatory oversight in the party’s 115 year history?
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
You found somewhere good to eat in Llanelli? Top place there Wetherspoons. Says it all.
I got a baguette in a cafe near the station. Hardly five star but perfectly edible and very cheap.
“Too many people in positions of power behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street. But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t even understand what the word ‘citizenship’ means”
It’s quite clear that she is saying people need to contribute and engage with their community and society
Absolutely. And my point is that she did that in a way that anybody with an ounce of empathy for metropolitans would have known would get misinterpreted when, inevitably, it was reported out of context. Again, I'm not claiming, as Alistair does, that she was expressing an anti-Remainer sentiment. I'm saying the fact that she didn't realise how this would be wrongly interpreted is evidence of a lack of empathy.
Hmm. I’d go much further than that. It’s not possible to take that sentence “if you believe you are a citizen of the world...” out of context. It’s crystal clear that she believes those who are internationalist in their outlook are citizens of nowhere. It’s clear because she said it. The padding around it is little more than duck and cover.
No - she is clearly refering to people who "behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the street"
That's not the same as internationalist in outlook - it's divorcing yourself from the local community. Of course it's a case of n=1, but our family is extremely global in outlook, but are always careful to remain strongly roots and engaged with our local communities in the West Country and in Farringdon Without.
IMO she was talking about the Richard Bransons and the Philip Greens, the Starbucks and Googles of this world, who make good profits from British business but manage to mostly avoid paying tax on it.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
I've already done Crewe to Shrewsbury, back in 2015. I'm thinking of staying overnight in Shrewsbury to ensure I get to the station on time for the 1009 - or else I would need leave to my usual weekday "base" at Birmingham before 8.30am!
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
I've already done Crewe to Shrewsbury, back in 2015. I'm thinking of staying overnight in Shrewsbury to ensure I get to the station on time for the 1009 - or else I would need leave to my usual weekday "base" at Birmingham before 8.30am!
Nice loco, that WLLR train
If you're starting from Birmingham Shrewsbury might make more sense. It is of course oddly difficult to get to Shrewsbury by rail from any other major centre of population, which is why I suggested Crewe.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
To be fair I would rather have Corbyn as PM now than a diehard Remainer, at least he gives a bit of respect to democracy
You really have flipped tonight
No I mean it.
Corbyn will only be for a term or two. If diehard Remainers manage to overturn the referendum result they will not stop there but see it as a mandate to sign up the UK ultimately to the Eurozone and a Federal EU with no further democratic mandate required.
It would be the end of the UK in effect as an independent country, we would just become a state of the EU
You have lost it tonight. Grab a horlicks and calm down.
Nothing is worse than suggested Corbyn will be a one or even two term PM
Permanently being signed up to an EU Superstate is worse for me I am afraid, Mogg has said preserving Brexit is more important than stopping Corbyn
It is not going to happen. TM will do a deal
I hope so but clearly some diehard Remainers will keep pushing to reverse Brexit regardless and they must be resisted
I think you're proving that the effect I predicted of Tory loyalists feeling compelled to back Brexit for as long as it remains taboo to rethink is real. If it became Tory policy to hold a second referendum, a lot of people like you would suddenly have different choices to make.
The sort of Tories you're acquainted with (pro Euro, pro-Irish Republican) are a very niche section of the electorate.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
In terms of legacy, I'd guess Trump's will be the shortest due to the GOP getting most likely beaten by 2024 or so (If not 2020). At that point they'll revert to the GOP (The SCOTUS legacy is more of a GOP legacy rather than Trump really). Corbyn will go before Trump I'd guess, but his successor and the changes in the Labour party will outlast those of Trump in the GOP. Brexit will have the longest impact of all three - of course the UK will probably have Brexit AND Corbynism at some point in the 2020s...
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Trump could see be relected given the limited Denocratic field for 2020, Corbyn will remain leader until the next general election as he has the Labour membership behind him and even the Chequers Deal technically ends free movement and takes us out of the single market for services
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Trump could see be relected given the limited Denocratic field for 2020, Corbyn will remain leader until the next general election as he has the Labour membership behind him and even the Chequers Deal technically ends free movement and takes us out of the single market for services
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
Just to cheer all the PBtories , reports are that the membership of the Labour Party now stands at 850, 000, while the dead give more money to the tories than the living. Please keep attacking Corbyn, you know it makes sense.....
To be fair I would rather have Corbyn as PM now than a diehard Remainer, at least he gives a bit of respect to democracy
You really have flipped tonight
No I mean it.
Corbyn will only be for a term or two. If diehard Remainers manage to overturn the referendum result they will not stop there but see it as a mandate to sign up the UK ultimately to the Eurozone and a Federal EU with no further democratic mandate required.
It would be the end of the UK in effect as an independent country, we would just become a state of the EU
You have lost it tonight. Grab a horlicks and calm down.
Nothing is worse than suggested Corbyn will be a one or even two term PM
Permanently being signed up to an EU Superstate is worse for me I am afraid, Mogg has said preserving Brexit is more important than stopping Corbyn
It is not going to happen. TM will do a deal
I hope so but clearly some diehard Remainers will keep pushing to reverse Brexit regardless and they must be resisted
I think you're proving that the effect I predicted of Tory loyalists feeling compelled to back Brexit for as long as it remains taboo to rethink is real. If it became Tory policy to hold a second referendum, a lot of people like you would suddenly have different choices to make.
The sort of Tories you're acquainted with (pro Euro, pro-Irish Republican) are a very niche section of the electorate.
Even most Labour voters are probably not pro Euro, most LD voters maybe but they represent only about 10% of the electorate
Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.
"One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."
To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
So tax avoiders then?
She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
One day,ingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women
I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
You have helped to wreck the country because you decided that it was more important to leave the EU than oppose xenophobic lies.
Instead of intoning piously at someone who would no more vote for Jeremy Corbyn than the current incarnation of the Conservative party, hellbent as it is on implementing shambolically the most damaging policy since the Second World War, reflect on your own part in this country’s long term decline.
You seem to have regressed in the last two to three weeks to the worst forms of yourself you were a year or so ago.
I’m not sure why. You’d got much better, and I thought you were now beyond this.
I don’t need commentary on myself from someone who decided that hating the EU was more important than confronting xenophobia.
People who are just as virtuous and intelligent as you are took the view that they would rather that the UK should not be part of the EU. That's all there is to it.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Trump could see be relected given the limited Denocratic field for 2020, Corbyn will remain leader until the next general election as he has the Labour membership behind him and even the Chequers Deal technically ends free movement and takes us out of the single market for services
Chequers was dead on arrival.
Far from it, it will likely be the basis of the Deal agreed next year
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
Either he chooses to go or drops down dead on the job. There’s no mechanism to fire him if he doesn’t want to go and the members continue to support him.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
I've already done Crewe to Shrewsbury, back in 2015. I'm thinking of staying overnight in Shrewsbury to ensure I get to the station on time for the 1009 - or else I would need leave to my usual weekday "base" at Birmingham before 8.30am!
Nice loco, that WLLR train
If you're starting from Birmingham Shrewsbury might make more sense. It is of course oddly difficult to get to Shrewsbury by rail from any other major centre of population, which is why I suggested Crewe.
That's right, apart from the Birmingham trains provided by Virgin and West Midland, only Arriva Trains Wales serve Shrewsbury, which aren't exactly frequent to any given destination.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
In terms of legacy, I'd guess Trump's will be the shortest due to the GOP getting most likely beaten by 2024 or so (If not 2020). At that point they'll revert to the GOP (The SCOTUS legacy is more of a GOP legacy rather than Trump really). Corbyn will go before Trump I'd guess, but his successor and the changes in the Labour party will outlast those of Trump in the GOP. Brexit will have the longest impact of all three - of course the UK will probably have Brexit AND Corbynism at some point in the 2020s...
Re: Labour. See my post above about nomination rules. Corbyn is essentially besieged in the leaders office because the second he stands down the right can sweep back and the left can’t get back in again. They need to change the rules - which is a nontrivial task.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
I've already done Crewe to Shrewsbury, back in 2015. I'm thinking of staying overnight in Shrewsbury to ensure I get to the station on time for the 1009 - or else I would need leave to my usual weekday "base" at Birmingham before 8.30am!
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
We have had stalemate for 2 years, but the pressure is building and the deadline is approaching. At that point the dam breaks. I expect an election within 2 years, and while some of the current leaders will change before, some will afterwards.
We are entering uncharted stormy seas with no one taking command. We may wash up on a fortunate shore, but more likely will land on the rocks. Keep one eye on the lifeboats as the rats are already leaving the bilges.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
Ah, just wondering, I've yet to the Heart of Wales line, I'm thinking of catching the 1008 from Shrewsbury and returning on the 1435 from Swansea to do both directions in daylight.
Those were the trains I used, just not those starting points.
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
I've already done Crewe to Shrewsbury, back in 2015. I'm thinking of staying overnight in Shrewsbury to ensure I get to the station on time for the 1009 - or else I would need leave to my usual weekday "base" at Birmingham before 8.30am!
Nice loco, that WLLR train
Have you been to Bridgnorth?
Yes I did the Severn Valley back in 2014, easy interchange at Kidderminster.
Brian Harvey of E17 fame from the 1990's had a court case today, at which some of my friends attended. Why didn't that make the mainstream news? Because it's tied up with the massive fraud, theft and money laundering going on in this country, that's why. The case was swiftly adjourned with Brian on bail until September 7th, because a few too many people were there supporting him.....but they'll all be back and more in a fortnight's time.
Would this be the paranoid delusional Brian Harvey who posted a YouTube video last month where he claimed he hadn't been outside in five years?
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
@justin124 yes, I meant Prentice. You referred to Alan Browne (I think) - yes he did join the Conservatives eventually but only after quite a long spell as an independent and being deselected by his local party.
Re Dawkins, @Anazina is correct, he does criticise Muslims/Islam, but not very often. This is probably however not because he is frit. He says they are of less interest to him because he knows less about them than he does about Christians (in which incidentally he is completely wrong, but that's scarcely unusual for a man whose repeated blunders, bullying and intellectual incoherence earned him the nickname among actual scholars of the All-Mighty Dawk). However, he did memorably condemn an atheist women for complaining about being sexually harassed in a lift, on the basis that FGM in the Muslim world was a more serious problem to deal with.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
You found somewhere good to eat in Llanelli? Top place there Wetherspoons. Says it all.
I got a baguette in a cafe near the station. Hardly five star but perfectly edible and very cheap.
It was a bit tongue in cheek. No Michelin starred eateries in Llanelli but plenty of decent cafes. Chip shop just up from station very nice. If you had been able to get off at Llandrindod there is a nice whole food cafe 5 mins away. Was there only a couple of weeks agon.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
People know thanks to Rees-Mogg and the ERG that May is busy betraying Brexit, and they still prefer her over all the alternatives...
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP while some centrist 2017 LD and Labour voters have moved to the Tories
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
People know thanks to Rees-Mogg and the ERG that May is busy betraying Brexit, and they still prefer her over all the alternatives...
No, May is implementing Brexit in the most sustainable long term way.
People like you want No Deal as it will make it easier to advance your ideological agenda to use No Deal hard Brexit as a means to reverse Brexit then push a Federal EU Superstate on the UK
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP
No they haven't, since we are constantly told the Chequers deal is hated by Tory members, yet the poll ratings are still ok to fine, so there's clearly scope for people to depart if it turns out Boris and the JRM Brexiteers don't come and save the nation from a less than rock hard Brexit.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
People know thanks to Rees-Mogg and the ERG that May is busy betraying Brexit, and they still prefer her over all the alternatives...
No, May is implementing Brexit in the most sustainable long term way.
People like you want No Deal as it will make it easier to advance your ideological agenda to use No Deal hard Brexit as a means to reverse Brexit then push a Federal EU Superstate on the UK
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP
No they haven't, since we are constantly told the Chequers deal is hated by Tory members, yet the poll ratings are still ok to fine, so there's clearly scope for people to depart if it turns out Boris and the JRM Brexiteers don't come and save the nation from a less than rock hard Brexit.
But i must abed.
Yes they have, as I said Yougov has 10% of 2017 LDs and about 4% of 2017 Labour voters saying they would now vote Tory to compensate for the 10% of 2017 Tory voters who now say they would vote UKIP after the Chequers Deal
Brian Harvey of E17 fame from the 1990's had a court case today, at which some of my friends attended. Why didn't that make the mainstream news? Because it's tied up with the massive fraud, theft and money laundering going on in this country, that's why. The case was swiftly adjourned with Brian on bail until September 7th, because a few too many people were there supporting him.....but they'll all be back and more in a fortnight's time.
Would this be the paranoid delusional Brian Harvey who posted a YouTube video last month where he claimed he hadn't been outside in five years?
Have you ever spoken to him in person? He is very misunderstood and now he's trampling on a lot of forbidden territory, the shutters of the establishment have come down on him surprise surprise
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
People know thanks to Rees-Mogg and the ERG that May is busy betraying Brexit, and they still prefer her over all the alternatives...
No, May is implementing Brexit in the most sustainable long term way.
People like you want No Deal as it will make it easier to advance your ideological agenda to use No Deal hard Brexit as a means to reverse Brexit then push a Federal EU Superstate on the UK
It sounds like you're panicking somewhat.
No I am not panicking I will resist a Federal EU Superstate being imposed on the UK until my dying day but I know people like you will equally not rest until you have pushed the UK into one
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
People know thanks to Rees-Mogg and the ERG that May is busy betraying Brexit, and they still prefer her over all the alternatives...
No, May is implementing Brexit in the most sustainable long term way.
People like you want No Deal as it will make it easier to advance your ideological agenda to use No Deal hard Brexit as a means to reverse Brexit then push a Federal EU Superstate on the UK
It sounds like you're panicking somewhat.
William, you are the poster child for projection and wishful thinking. Have a break.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP while some centrist 2017 LD and Labour voters have moved to the Tories
There is no UKIP to move to. There is no UKIP to vote for.
It is hollowed out to the point of being a vacuum within a void.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP while some centrist 2017 LD and Labour voters have moved to the Tories
There is no UKIP to move to. There is no UKIP to vote for.
It is hollowed out to the point of being a vacuum within a void.
Corbyn, Brexit and Trump: I wonder which will be reversed first. It's looking like Corbyn at present.
I agree.
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Explain the mechanism for Corbo going. (I hope you are right but I cannot see any viable route)
I think that he will choose to go.
I can’t imagine that McDonnell and Milne will allow it unless they can change the nomination rules so a hard left winger needs only a handful to get on the ballot paper. Under the existing rules, they would stand no chance.
. I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
Agreed. I don't see how it will manage it, with the chaos sure to occur within the Tories either through no deal or a deal hated by the members and a new leader, probably Labour taking some more common poll leads too.
I doubt the polling will change much from what it is now given voters already know the scope of the Deal May wants to make
There are plenty who think she won't be able to make it and we'll get proper Brexit, or whatever. If we get a deal, those people will react.
Those people have already largely moved to UKIP while some centrist 2017 LD and Labour voters have moved to the Tories
There is no UKIP to move to. There is no UKIP to vote for.
It is hollowed out to the point of being a vacuum within a void.
Even at the last general election UKIP stood candidates in at least half the seats and it is polling about triple what it got then.
Though of coursevthe quickest way to fully revive UKIP or create a new pro Brexit party is to reverse Brexit
This whole Salmond story is very odd. It appears to be his beef is with the process the Scottish government has followed - which presumably they had their own lawyers ok. I would have thought "I absolutely deny these allegations and look forward to being vindicated in due course" a more dignified way of burying the story, rather than taking the Scottish government to court?
Would this be the paranoid delusional Brian Harvey who posted a YouTube video last month where he claimed he hadn't been outside in five years?
Have you ever spoken to him in person?
No. Though I once sat opposite Martha Lane Fox in a train.
Pause.
Well, I didn't say it was an interesting anecdote...
I sat opposite Nigel Farage on a train once, he alighted at Dulwich, suspect he might have been giving a speech at his old school.
I stood behind Simon Callow in a shop.
This is a true fact.
I stood behind Benedict Cumberbatch queuing for books at the Hay Festival
I stood behind Ed M at Hay about ten or eleven years ago. He was completely unrecognised by anyone around me.
Plus ca change.
I sat next to Rolf Harris (a childhood favourite) on a plane once. Charming and affable. The next time I saw him was on the Queen Mary 2 as the police were going through his home in Maidenhead.....
Clearly he will be dismissed as Tory scum (and he has had that sort of reaction on Twitter) but it is an honest, clear piece articulating exactly why as a left-of-centre activist, he cannot support Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and all that comes with them.
I've been at the pub this evening, can some kind soul post an update as to the current Jezza and jew position please?
He managed to issue a ''clarification' of his speech after Sabbath started . Hasn't gone down well
Isn't this what he did last time he was in trouble?
Yep
His new official line was he was being very specific about his use of Zionist in a way that he doesn't use the term now.
So work that one out if you can...
Honestly, I am lost. But I think it is a feature of the far left that there is endless debate about the symbolic meaning of a single word.
Personally, I think Woody Allen had it right...
The exact quote is: "I described those pro-Israel activists as Zionists, in the accurate political sense and not as a euphemism for Jewish people”; but adds he is now “more careful” with the term, because it has been “increasingly hijacked by antisemites”.
I think that the antisemitic stench that's come out of LAB under Corbyn's leader is appalling. My parliamentary seat flips from LAB>CON>LAB and under the new boundaries would have a notional GE17 result of just a NINE vote margin. I've tactically voted Labour for the past two general elections. Next time, be assured my vote will not go to the Jew haters.
Which is why I think it is the angle Corbyn's opponents have chosen, early attempts at calling him a misogynist and a communist fell flat this is one where they have had far more joy.
You seem to imply that Corbyn's opponents have no legitimate grievances or concerns, and are just focusing on whatever attack line they think works. Why do you think they are doing that? The idea they don't want a Labour government, or even a more left leaning government, doesn't hold up to scrutiny since most of them are still, implicitly at the least, accepting they want him to the PM even if they are mad at him, so why are they so intent on attacking him?
Depends who and what we are talking about but it sort of sounds like you are talking about Labour MPs there, there are a very small number, Woodcock would have been one, who do not want him to become PM as Woodcock pretty much stated after he left. Actively preferring May. Even if you don't there are probably those who are hoping they can find a gap to oppose Corbyn and get a Labour government.
I've been at the pub this evening, can some kind soul post an update as to the current Jezza and jew position please?
He managed to issue a ''clarification' of his speech after Sabbath started . Hasn't gone down well
Isn't this what he did last time he was in trouble?
Yep
His new official line was he was being very specific about his use of Zionist in a way that he doesn't use the term now.
So work that one out if you can...
Honestly, I am lost. But I think it is a feature of the far left that there is endless debate about the symbolic meaning of a single word.
Personally, I think Woody Allen had it right...
The exact quote is: "I described those pro-Israel activists as Zionists, in the accurate political sense and not as a euphemism for Jewish people”; but adds he is now “more careful” with the term, because it has been “increasingly hijacked by antisemites”.
He really has no shame (and even less intellect)
erm, I think you mean Seamus has no shame. Do you think Jezza writes a single word of this crap?
Clearly he will be dismissed as Tory scum (and he has had that sort of reaction on Twitter) but it is an honest, clear piece articulating exactly why as a left-of-centre activist, he cannot support Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and all that comes with them.
Interestingly, for the next few years, is that (quoting from memory), the New Statesman quotes a constituency Lab party officer as saying 200 local members had left whilst 300 had joined.
Out there, there are 200 members at least in that constituency who want a sane Lab/social dem government.
I've been at the pub this evening, can some kind soul post an update as to the current Jezza and jew position please?
He managed to issue a ''clarification' of his speech after Sabbath started . Hasn't gone down well
Isn't this what he did last time he was in trouble?
Yep
His new official line was he was being very specific about his use of Zionist in a way that he doesn't use the term now.
So work that one out if you can...
Honestly, I am lost. But I think it is a feature of the far left that there is endless debate about the symbolic meaning of a single word.
Personally, I think Woody Allen had it right...
The exact quote is: "I described those pro-Israel activists as Zionists, in the accurate political sense and not as a euphemism for Jewish people”; but adds he is now “more careful” with the term, because it has been “increasingly hijacked by antisemites”.
He really has no shame (and even less intellect)
erm, I think you mean Seamus has no shame. Do you think Jezza writes a single word of this crap?
Well know - but it was done in his name. And that is all that matters.
Times still sticking with the KKK support line I see.... it is like they don't think anyone has access to the internet anymore. I'm sure their older readers will lap it up though.
Edit: Said something about Mike Gapes at the start of the article, it's over for me.
________________________________________ Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.” _______________________________________
It's in the first few lines you don't need access to read.
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
And not just in 'confidential WhatsApp conversations'.....
So it was a private comment, so he shall go on being a Labour MP for an indeterminate amount of time moaning and grumbling till he picks an opportune moment to resign. Annoying....
I wish him the best of luck outside of Labour but I won't miss him being an MP for the party.
So it was a private comment, so he shall go on being a Labour MP for an indeterminate amount of time moaning and grumbling till he picks an opportune moment to resign. Annoying....
I wish him the best of luck outside of Labour but I won't miss him being an MP for the party.
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
The only stand they can take is a coordinated mass resignation that leads to the creation of a new party.
There are enough Labour MPs who voted for the No Confidence motion to rip the title of LOTO from Corbyn's hands.
Would the unions follow? A good number would. Yes, it would be painful. But it would be far better than the current situation.
Our systems needs proper opposition parties with leaderships who are not compromised.
Absolutely. And my point is that she did that in a way that anybody with an ounce of empathy for metropolitans would have known would get misinterpreted when, inevitably, it was reported out of context. Again, I'm not claiming, as Alistair does, that she was expressing an anti-Remainer sentiment. I'm saying the fact that she didn't realise how this would be wrongly interpreted is evidence of a lack of empathy.
Hmm. I’d go much further than that. It’s not possible to take that sentence “if you believe you are a citizen of the world...” out of context. It’s crystal clear that she believes those who are internationalist in their outlook are citizens of nowhere. It’s clear because she said it. The padding around it is little more than duck and cover.
No - she is clearly refering to people who "behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the street"
That's not the same as internationalist in outlook - it's divorcing yourself from the local community. Of course it's a case of n=1, but our family is extremely global in outlook, but are always careful to remain strongly roots and engaged with our local communities in the West Country and in Farringdon Without.
You have again just analysed the padding. Read this sentence back: “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere.”
Okay, I consider myself a citizen of the world. Do you agree with May that I am therefore a citizen of nowhere?
Nope, it's not padding. It's critical to the construct. "Citizen of the world" is not a common phrase. She has defined what it means in the preceding sentence. You may disagree with her definition - but then you can't reasonably apply your definition to what she said, because it's not what she meant.
Too many people in positions of power behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.
I know a lot of people - let's call them "citizens of the world" - who fit those characteristics. People like Philip Green, the Bamfords or Hindujas. They need to understand that if you have a successful business you have the obligation to give something back to the society that nurtured you.
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
The only stand they can take is a coordinated mass resignation that leads to the creation of a new party.
There are enough Labour MPs who voted for the No Confidence motion to rip the title of LOTO from Corbyn's hands.
Would the unions follow? A good number would. Yes, it would be painful. But it would be far better than the current situation.
Our systems needs proper opposition parties with leaderships who are not compromised.
They could keep their heads down and:
a) Hope Lab lose
b) if Lab win, refuse to provide the confidence of the House required for Jezza to be PM (in which case we have a major constitutional crisis).
I think that many are keeping quiet until Brexit is done in March,
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”.....
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
For the love of God, it is time for these MPs to take a stand.
The only stand they can take is a coordinated mass resignation that leads to the creation of a new party.
There are enough Labour MPs who voted for the No Confidence motion to rip the title of LOTO from Corbyn's hands.
Would the unions follow? A good number would. Yes, it would be painful. But it would be far better than the current situation.
Our systems needs proper opposition parties with leaderships who are not compromised.
They could keep their heads down and:
a) Hope Lab lose
b) if Lab win, refuse to provide the confidence of the House required for Jezza to be PM (in which case we have a major constitutional crisis).
I think that many are keeping quiet until Brexit is done in March,
a) Labour losing is no guarantee that Corbyn goes. The excuse will be that the establishment conspired to stop him winning and so we have to continue to fight for what we believe in. And by that stage, the changes to the rules etc will mean that regaining control for the realist wing of the party would be nigh on impossible.
b) This would be the most entertaining piece of political theatre - but it would be an almighty mess. And they would have stood under a Corbyn platform and be tainted by having endorsed him in public. Crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't count.
Get the pain started now - rip that plaster off. Regroup under a new name. Campaign for modern Labour values of social democracy and for better government.
So it was a private comment, so he shall go on being a Labour MP for an indeterminate amount of time moaning and grumbling till he picks an opportune moment to resign. Annoying....
I wish him the best of luck outside of Labour but I won't miss him being an MP for the party.
Are you talking about Gapes?
Yes, sorry should have made that clear. I assume it was him the times story was about with the message about resigning.
It would be open, honest and laudable. Which is why they won't do it, or not yet anyway. Also most of the talk is numbers in the low tens, it would be nowhere near the no confidence vote of 2016.
Comments
Labour say their membership is 550,000
Corbyn's legacy will be longer lasting and more enduring on the Labour party (Changes in the NEC etc) than Trump's - which is the erratic, albeit strong force of really just Trump himself.
Okay, I consider myself a citizen of the world. Do you agree with May that I am therefore a citizen of nowhere?
Gets crowded south of Llandod but is quite quiet before then.
Depending on how you are getting there, would advise either Craven Arms (by car) or Crewe (by train) as easier starting points than Shrewsbury.
PS - also saw this loco today - being moved to Welshpool on a low loader on the M54!
https://www.wllr.org.uk/news
Top place there Wetherspoons. Says it all.
As far as Alex is concerned all will come out in due course and I remain on the fence until then
Have a good night and a great weekend
Nice loco, that WLLR train
Trump will last until Jan 2021. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Brexit may well be suspended but not cancelled, but more likely be Limbo Transition Vassal State Brexit, until reversed. but hard to put a timecourse on it.
Corbyn will go before Trump I'd guess, but his successor and the changes in the Labour party will outlast those of Trump in the GOP.
Brexit will have the longest impact of all three - of course the UK will probably have Brexit AND Corbynism at some point in the 2020s...
I don't think this parliament will last another 2 years
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6042765/amp/EU-offer-UK-stay-single-market-goods-without-free-movement.html
I wish everyone a peaceful nights rest and remember there is more to life than politics
Good night folks
We are entering uncharted stormy seas with no one taking command. We may wash up on a fortunate shore, but more likely will land on the rocks. Keep one eye on the lifeboats as the rats are already leaving the bilges.
I saw a very strange and disturbing sight today - a full train at Llandrindod Wells at midday. Admittedly it was a one-car 153 but it still shook me.
Did you go from Shrewsbury towards Llanelli, or Llanelli towards Shrewsbury?
Started at Craven Arms, lunch at Llanelli, caught the 14.53 back to Craven Arms.
You found somewhere good to eat in Llanelli?
Top place there Wetherspoons. Says it all.
I got a baguette in a cafe near the station. Hardly five star but perfectly edible and very cheap. It was a bit tongue in cheek. No Michelin starred eateries in Llanelli but plenty of decent cafes. Chip shop just up from station very nice.
If you had been able to get off at Llandrindod there is a nice whole food cafe 5 mins away. Was there only a couple of weeks agon.
People like you want No Deal as it will make it easier to advance your ideological agenda to use No Deal hard Brexit as a means to reverse Brexit then push a Federal EU Superstate on the UK
But i must abed.
Pause.
Well, I didn't say it was an interesting anecdote...
This is a true fact.
It is hollowed out to the point of being a vacuum within a void.
Though of coursevthe quickest way to fully revive UKIP or create a new pro Brexit party is to reverse Brexit
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1033039640633192448
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1033065563176796161
Plus ca change.
https://twitter.com/samlove8888/status/1033117559535685633
His new official line was he was being very specific about his use of Zionist in a way that he doesn't use the term now.
So work that one out if you can...
https://medium.com/@dijdowell/red-lines-43de8d38bda6
Clearly he will be dismissed as Tory scum (and he has had that sort of reaction on Twitter) but it is an honest, clear piece articulating exactly why as a left-of-centre activist, he cannot support Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and all that comes with them.
Personally, I think Woody Allen had it right...
He really has no shame (and even less intellect)
Out there, there are 200 members at least in that constituency who want a sane Lab/social dem government.
Hope.
https://twitter.com/jgriffintimes/status/1033093625788477440
Edit: Said something about Mike Gapes at the start of the article, it's over for me.
________________________________________
Mike Gapes, a former chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, told fellow Labour MPs: “I am not prepared to support the racist antisemite. Period. It’s over for me.”
_______________________________________
It's in the first few lines you don't need access to read.
Responding to Mr Corbyn’s video in a WhatsApp message, Mr Gapes said that his personal “red line” had been crossed. All that remained was the timing of the announcement of his resignation, he said.
The MP for Ilford South refused to comment on what he said was a confidential communication. “It is painful. It is a horrible place to be and it can’t go on. Something has to change in the party or everyone has to make their own position, about where they stand. I am agonising with this every day.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/far-right-comes-out-for-jeremy-corbyn-over-zionist-slur-as-ex-bnp-and-ku-klux-klan-chiefs-show-support-3p52gpq39
Other interesting snippet from the Times - the 'Zionist' (who as it happens is Jewish) Corbyn was referring to was Richard Millett, whose family arrived over 100 years ago and whose father founded Milletts clothing chain.
I wish him the best of luck outside of Labour but I won't miss him being an MP for the party.
There are enough Labour MPs who voted for the No Confidence motion to rip the title of LOTO from Corbyn's hands.
Would the unions follow? A good number would. Yes, it would be painful. But it would be far better than the current situation.
Our systems needs proper opposition parties with leaderships who are not compromised.
Too many people in positions of power behave as if they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.
I know a lot of people - let's call them "citizens of the world" - who fit those characteristics. People like Philip Green, the Bamfords or Hindujas. They need to understand that if you have a successful business you have the obligation to give something back to the society that nurtured you.
Yep. You guessed it. Woke, right on 'Champion of the underdog', Channel 4......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6095307/Channel-4-embarrassed-Britains-poshest-broadcaster-says-head-programming.html
a) Hope Lab lose
b) if Lab win, refuse to provide the confidence of the House required for Jezza to be PM
(in which case we have a major constitutional crisis).
I think that many are keeping quiet until Brexit is done in March,
b) This would be the most entertaining piece of political theatre - but it would be an almighty mess. And they would have stood under a Corbyn platform and be tainted by having endorsed him in public. Crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't count.
Get the pain started now - rip that plaster off. Regroup under a new name. Campaign for modern Labour values of social democracy and for better government.
It would be open, honest and laudable.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-accused-touching-womans-13134675
@oxfordsimon
It would be open, honest and laudable. Which is why they won't do it, or not yet anyway. Also most of the talk is numbers in the low tens, it would be nowhere near the no confidence vote of 2016.