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  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,132

    So I've come up with an idea for a thread on Sunday that heavily features AV.

    One-track mind.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2018

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,132
    To be fair, at least three of those are politicians.
  • HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Thinking that only tax avoiders would consider themselves citizens of the world is a prime example of lack of empathy.

    Others would be the dementia tax, go home vans, not bothering to meet Grenfell survivors
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
  • The grassroots group Momentum - set up to support Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party - looks set to begin a consultation of its members on its Brexit stance, ahead of the party's conference in Liverpool next month.
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    edited August 2018
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    A horse shoe is how I have heard it explained
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,485
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    Given the record of the Cult so far, they will probably say the KKK has been smeared for years by mainstream media.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2018
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It was the analogy with a clock (not me btw). I thought it was very good.

    Corbyn backed by Russian bots and far right racists.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,023

    So I've come up with an idea for a thread on Sunday that heavily features AV.

    Why on Earth has no-one done such a thing before!?

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Nigel et al

    Professor Richard Dawkins is far from quiet in his mocking of Islam - indeed he has been in hot water several times for doing exactly that. Notable incidents include pointing out that his own Oxbridge college had produced more Nobel prize winners than all Muslims in history; and that he enjoyed the bells of a particular English cathedral far more than the Islamic call to prayer. He is regularly accused of being Islamaphobic. Of course, he pokes fun at all religions, probably pretty much equally.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,592
    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    What did Jeremy say?
  • Roger said:

    What did Jeremy say?

    Do you not read the guardian these days?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
    You have helped to wreck the country because you decided that it was more important to leave the EU than oppose xenophobic lies.

    Instead of intoning piously at someone who would no more vote for Jeremy Corbyn than the current incarnation of the Conservative party, hellbent as it is on implementing shambolically the most damaging policy since the Second World War, reflect on your own part in this country’s long term decline.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,592
    edited August 2018
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    I have and it tells us virtually nothing as it was 'silent Leavers' and Don't Knows who won it for Leave and the 53% Remain 47% Leave poll result is almost identical to Yougov's final EU referendum poll result.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    I have and it tells us virtually nothing as it was 'silent Leavers' and Don't Knows who won it for Leave and the 53% Remain 47% Leave poll result is almost identical to Yougov's final EU referendum poll result.
    You have not understood it then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited August 2018
    Ben stokes showing why he is the million dollar man...hitting the Sussex bowlers like drunks outside a Bristol nightclub.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
    And it is nonsense because politics are multi-dimensional, not linear, even if the line is a circle or a horseshoe.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,592
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Roger said:

    What did Jeremy say?

    Do you not read the guardian these days?
    I haven't done today though I just read your link to the usually excellent Simon Hattenstone which though interesting doesn't fully put it into context
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,023
    Any betting thoughts on Trump?

    Mike posted a good header the other day and there have been a few good posts too.

    I'm trying to talk myself out of betting against him. I managed to do that in the Presidential election, and saved what would have been an otherwise awful result I'm sure. I've dabbled at times in opposing his longevity, and have timed it pretty well. I've recently opposed him a little bit in the Next President market. However my brain tells me that I should be laying the hell out of the 2.70s or so there. Serious shit doesn't begin to describe his position.

    I find myself wanting to back him to be toast in weeks, but at the same time thinking that a bet on him serving a 3rd term might not be such a bad thing.

    (My opinion is that he shouldn't be President, but in amongst the nonsense his off-the-cuff style has produced some good things. If I was a US citizen I could never vote for him - he's an idiot, but he might outshine his competitors nonetheless. And thus weirdly in those circumstances I might abstain.)
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Omnium said:

    Any betting thoughts on Trump?

    Mike posted a good header the other day and there have been a few good posts too.

    I'm trying to talk myself out of betting against him. I managed to do that in the Presidential election, and saved what would have been an otherwise awful result I'm sure. I've dabbled at times in opposing his longevity, and have timed it pretty well. I've recently opposed him a little bit in the Next President market. However my brain tells me that I should be laying the hell out of the 2.70s or so there. Serious shit doesn't begin to describe his position.

    I find myself wanting to back him to be toast in weeks, but at the same time thinking that a bet on him serving a 3rd term might not be such a bad thing.

    (My opinion is that he shouldn't be President, but in amongst the nonsense his off-the-cuff style has produced some good things. If I was a US citizen I could never vote for him - he's an idiot, but he might outshine his competitors nonetheless. And thus weirdly in those circumstances I might abstain.)

    If it's an area where your instincts have already proven wrong, and which is full of huge amounts of unknowns, don't bet. Save the money for something where you have a good track record or there's a lot of data
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
    Yes, okay - I hadn’t meant to be “obnoxious” !!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/over-half-of-tory-voters-dont-expect-a-good-brexit-deal-poll-shows-a3919321.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922
    MTimT said:

    Off Topic: Trumptown. Seeing that Pecker and Weisselberg have both been given immunity deals, and Sessions is standing his ground against Trump, I wonder if we've hit a pivot point, where the GOP* will now start the rat and sinking ship thing ...

    Edit: * GOP Establishment and Congressional members

    If so, that raises a rather interesting possibility:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/24/trump-taxes-russia-senate-republican-219593

    Remember, of course, what did for Capone.
    Trump is not exactly a gangster, but given his fondness for mobster culture, it would be a fitting denouement.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    I’ve heard enough times from the far right/Tommy Robinson that I can’t be British because my loyalties lie towards Mecca.

    Labour must be so proud.

    Next Corbyn’s team will be using the line that the absolute boy cannot be a racist because Judaism/Zionism isn’t a race.

    It’s the same line the far right make when they say Islam isn’t a race.

    People like Melanie Phillips...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,812
    Here's the YouGov poll. Just looking at Conservative voters, two thirds think Brexit promises will be broken, less than a quarter think we'll get a good deal, half think it will be the government's fault, and 84% think the process of Brexit has been a mess.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/tu6k2mk5wu/PeoplesVoteResults_Wave2_180821_GB_website.pdf
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501
    Let’s face it guys, there is only one political cartoonist.

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1033046420750778369/photo/1
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    British Politics plumbing the depths then with Mr Corbyn. How on earth didn't all this come out in the election campaign last year?!

    Meanwhile it snowed in Saudi Arabia - the very NW part near Jordan on the 19th August, now that made the mainstream news didn't it? Do pigs fly BenPointer, Feersum Engineeya et al?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEGSsAgcbuo
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
    Thanks!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,537
    edited August 2018
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
    Yes, okay - I hadn’t meant to be “obnoxious” !!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/over-half-of-tory-voters-dont-expect-a-good-brexit-deal-poll-shows-a3919321.html
    Great graphics for looking at subsamples!

    Online, I see, which were the polls that called it reasonably correctly. The last 3 yougov online polls all called the referendum correctly.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/22/two-massive-poll-boosts-for-remain-with-voting-starting-in-less-than-nine-hours/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,023
    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
    And it is nonsense because politics are multi-dimensional, not linear, even if the line is a circle or a horseshoe.
    Truly extreme left and right wing governments probably do look much the same. I'd suggest that's because law-and-order becomes the only issue, and the only solution is a police-state (that's a horrible phrase mind you, it's nothing to do with our police). Even if we had some sort of many dimensional representational map then the truly extreme versions of any of them are likely to finish the same way.

    Corbyn is pretty far left. I think it's likely that if he came to power, and if he alone directed our choices that we would finish up as a somewhat failed state. Labour are not about a sudden switch to Corbyn's grand plan though. He'd be awful beyond words, but we could survive him as a PM.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Brian Harvey of E17 fame from the 1990's had a court case today, at which some of my friends attended. Why didn't that make the mainstream news? Because it's tied up with the massive fraud, theft and money laundering going on in this country, that's why. The case was swiftly adjourned with Brian on bail until September 7th, because a few too many people were there supporting him.....but they'll all be back and more in a fortnight's time.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anazina said:
    One of the biggest charlatans, chancers, hypocrites and deeply unpleasant politicians this side of Corbyn being brought down at last ? Yes it is utterly delicious.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,537
    Omnium said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
    And it is nonsense because politics are multi-dimensional, not linear, even if the line is a circle or a horseshoe.
    Truly extreme left and right wing governments probably do look much the same. I'd suggest that's because law-and-order becomes the only issue, and the only solution is a police-state (that's a horrible phrase mind you, it's nothing to do with our police). Even if we had some sort of many dimensional representational map then the truly extreme versions of any of them are likely to finish the same way.

    Corbyn is pretty far left. I think it's likely that if he came to power, and if he alone directed our choices that we would finish up as a somewhat failed state. Labour are not about a sudden switch to Corbyn's grand plan though. He'd be awful beyond words, but we could survive him as a PM.
    Totalitarian regimes do indeed all look alike, but otherwise are miles apart at the poles.

    What has anarcho-syndicalism got in common with Nazism?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Very sad news about John McCain.

    Sorry to hear about other fellow posters battles with cancer within their loved ones as well.

    It’s a horrible thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    New Statesman:

    But the remarks about irony are the ones that will cause real difficulty. The remark that despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either”, carries with it the implication that most British Jews are not properly British despite having lived in – and in most cases been born in – the UK. Even if just applied to the specific group of people targeted in the speech, it still involves describing those specific people in a way that implies they are not properly English or British despite having lived here for all or most of their lives, which will obviously upset anyone who feels they have a commonality with the people described in that matter.

    It’s hard to see where Labour goes from here.

    It's not hard at all, we've already seen the defence of the comments, which will be accepted by most, railed at impotently by a few, then another incident will pop up.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Omnium said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former BNP leader Nick Griffin tweets support for Jeremy Corbyn against what he calls the 'Zionist media.' Ilford North MP Wes Streeting calls it 'sickening'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6094457/Go-Jezza-Former-BNP-chief-Nick-Griffin-praises-Corbyn-slur-British-Zionists.html

    David Duke is now also an admirer.
    Someone here (sorry I forget who) last week made a good analogy of the political spectrum not as a line that goes from left to right but as a circle, where the extremes of both sides meet in the middle.

    How will the average Corbynite react to having the BNP and KKK retweeting their memes?
    It is called the political horseshoe theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
    And it is nonsense because politics are multi-dimensional, not linear, even if the line is a circle or a horseshoe.
    Truly extreme left and right wing governments probably do look much the same. I'd suggest that's because law-and-order becomes the only issue, and the only solution is a police-state (that's a horrible phrase mind you, it's nothing to do with our police). Even if we had some sort of many dimensional representational map then the truly extreme versions of any of them are likely to finish the same way.

    Corbyn is pretty far left. I think it's likely that if he came to power, and if he alone directed our choices that we would finish up as a somewhat failed state. Labour are not about a sudden switch to Corbyn's grand plan though. He'd be awful beyond words, but we could survive him as a PM.
    Totally agreed. Far right and far left ultimately have the same politics of grievance, and favour one set of people over another. You can never run a country on a sound footing on that ridiculous basis.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,023

    Omnium said:

    Any betting thoughts on Trump?

    Mike posted a good header the other day and there have been a few good posts too.

    I'm trying to talk myself out of betting against him. I managed to do that in the Presidential election, and saved what would have been an otherwise awful result I'm sure. I've dabbled at times in opposing his longevity, and have timed it pretty well. I've recently opposed him a little bit in the Next President market. However my brain tells me that I should be laying the hell out of the 2.70s or so there. Serious shit doesn't begin to describe his position.

    I find myself wanting to back him to be toast in weeks, but at the same time thinking that a bet on him serving a 3rd term might not be such a bad thing.

    (My opinion is that he shouldn't be President, but in amongst the nonsense his off-the-cuff style has produced some good things. If I was a US citizen I could never vote for him - he's an idiot, but he might outshine his competitors nonetheless. And thus weirdly in those circumstances I might abstain.)

    If it's an area where your instincts have already proven wrong, and which is full of huge amounts of unknowns, don't bet. Save the money for something where you have a good track record or there's a lot of data
    No - my instincts were bang on - I avoided laying Trump in the 2016 markets entirely.

    I was mainly hoping to get an insight into others views on the opposing Trump conundrum. Choosing to bet, or otherwise, and quite how much to risk is something I have a good grounding in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779
    John_M said:

    On the last thread we have had a inquest of why people voted brexit ,why don't we have a debate on here why very many remainers are the unhappy lot and just want to insult.

    No matter how angry you get,we are still leaving the EU.

    ...and no matter how angry you get, we will probably go back in one day and I will laugh my old age pensioner socks off. I just hope there are enough leavers still alive to watch their eyes swivelling so hard they burst out of their sockets withy pink faced incredulity
    I'm a democrat and would be quite happy to accept the results of a referendum to Rejoin. I'd certainly disagree, of course, but even I wouldn't want the UK to be doing the fucking hokey-cokey over membership. If we Rejoin it would have to be as a full-fat member.
    Agreed. One, the EU would be fools to accept us back without demanding it, but in any case if that's where we go we should go all the way.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
    You have helped to wreck the country because you decided that it was more important to leave the EU than oppose xenophobic lies.

    Instead of intoning piously at someone who would no more vote for Jeremy Corbyn than the current incarnation of the Conservative party, hellbent as it is on implementing shambolically the most damaging policy since the Second World War, reflect on your own part in this country’s long term decline.
    You seem to have regressed in the last two to three weeks to the worst forms of yourself you were a year or so ago.

    I’m not sure why. You’d got much better, and I thought you were now beyond this.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501
    TGOHF said:

    Anazina said:
    One of the biggest charlatans, chancers, hypocrites and deeply unpleasant politicians this side of Corbyn being brought down at last ? Yes it is utterly delicious.
    His declaration was the undoubted highlight of an otherwise crap night at last year’s election.

    But a small part of me thinks that today would be even more delicious if were still an MP.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    High BMI = Brexit Majority Indicator
    Makes sense - my BMI has gone down quite a bit n the last 4 months, which probably explains my giving even a bad deal leading to super soft Brexit an easy time.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
    Yes, okay - I hadn’t meant to be “obnoxious” !!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/over-half-of-tory-voters-dont-expect-a-good-brexit-deal-poll-shows-a3919321.html
    Great graphics for looking at subsamples!

    Online, I see, which were the polls that called it reasonably correctly. The last 3 yougov online polls all called the referendum correctly.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/22/two-massive-poll-boosts-for-remain-with-voting-starting-in-less-than-nine-hours/
    I’m not a fan of opinion polling. But at least this survey benchmarks against June 2016 and has a very large sample size:

    Kellner: “Moreover, YouGov polled people who reported their vote at the time of the referendum. This latest survey is able to compare how these same people, who backed Brexit by 52 to 48 per cent then, would vote today. The five-point increase in Remain support, from 48 per cent to 53 per cent today, is real.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    In a surprise to nobody.....

    Chuka Umunna slams talk of breakaway party as 'false news'

    What?! You mean all those fringe people, anonymous leakers and people who have already left were talking a load of bollocks?!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited August 2018
    Seeing as the whole Finklestein thesis depends on a detailed textural analysis it's worth looking at the text. The bar for racism has never been lower since Bannon Trump Boris and the Brexiteers Robinson Netanyahu etc etc so this should be judged against that backdrop...


    “The other evening we had a meeting in parliament in which Manuel [the Palestinian ambassador] made an incredibly powerful and passionate and effective speech about the history of Palestine and the rights of the Palestinian people. This was dutifully recorded by the – the thankfully silent Zionists who were in the audience on that occasion, and then came up and berated him afterwards for what he had said. They clearly have two problems: one is they don’t want to study history and secondly having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either. They needed two lessons, which we could perhaps help them with.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    I’ve heard enough times from the far right/Tommy Robinson that I can’t be British because my loyalties lie towards Mecca.

    Tommy Robinson told you that personally?!

    I joke because it's bloody depressing.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Hunchman

    All roads lead to Finchley?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,812
    Anazina said:

    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
    Yes, okay - I hadn’t meant to be “obnoxious” !!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/over-half-of-tory-voters-dont-expect-a-good-brexit-deal-poll-shows-a3919321.html
    Great graphics for looking at subsamples!

    Online, I see, which were the polls that called it reasonably correctly. The last 3 yougov online polls all called the referendum correctly.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/22/two-massive-poll-boosts-for-remain-with-voting-starting-in-less-than-nine-hours/
    I’m not a fan of opinion polling. But at least this survey benchmarks against June 2016 and has a very large sample size:

    Kellner: “Moreover, YouGov polled people who reported their vote at the time of the referendum. This latest survey is able to compare how these same people, who backed Brexit by 52 to 48 per cent then, would vote today. The five-point increase in Remain support, from 48 per cent to 53 per cent today, is real.”
    It also backs up the poll they did the previous week with a 10,000+ sample size that also showed 53/47 for Remain.

    It's remarkable how much the figures for Leave are now dependent on Conservative voters. If they split the way they split in 2016 the majority for Remain would now be enormous. Just lifting the taboo against rethinking the Brexit decision could see a big swing to Remain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    I do wonder whether this story (i.e. the whole Labour-antisemitism thing) has run about as far as it can. Those committed on both sides either dismiss or confirm their bias; those in the middle discount and ignore. And ultimately, while we should be horrified by this kind of behaviour in a major party, it's not of itself going to shift many votes.

    Where the big impact might come is among Labour MPs. Mike is right about press officers but they're there to do what they're there to do. MPs, on the other hand, don't have the same obligation to defend Corbyn. Much more like this and we'll again see either open revolt where many MPs simply disown Corbyn as their leader, as in 2016, or even an outright split.

    I suppose one did so before 2017 so it is possible more might, but they don't seem to be struggling to find reasons to stay, positive and negative, and as for not facing the obligation to defend Corbyn, well that might be one reason why they won't feel the need to outright disown him or split - they are not out there every day having to justify their position in the face of comments or actions of his they don't like, it ebbs and flows, so the pressure doesn't build up.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Anazina said:

    Hunchman

    All roads lead to Finchley?

    They did until it all got closed down in a huge panic at the end of February last year.

    As for Brian Harvey, he's up on a trumped up charge of "malicious communications" - he just happened to be exposing the fraud, theft and money laundering.....and the powers that be, including some gatekeepers to that whole wretched network didn't like it. They don't like me either :(
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501
    edited August 2018

    Very sad news about John McCain.

    Sorry to hear about other fellow posters battles with cancer within their loved ones as well.

    It’s a horrible thing.

    Indeed. McCain is a good man, has the qualities we should be looking for in politicians. He is 82 though, and has batted a pretty good innings all things considered.

    One consequence of advances in medicine and life expectancy, is that we now die of different things and in different ways to how we did in the past.

    Condolences to all PBers who have suffered a recent loss among their family and friends.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    For those that like opinion polls, the gigantic YouGov survey in tonight’s Standard might hold some interest. I am looking forward to HYUFD’s rebuttal of Peter Kellner, and predict it will involve something about C2DEs.

    If Kellner's pre EU referendum polling had been right there would have been no Brexit as Remain would have won
    You haven’t read his article, have you?
    If you really are so stupid to think trying to scrape a Remain win on a second EU referendum and then doing nothing about free movement or concerns over deeper EU integration which caused the Leave result in the first place will solve anything you are beyond help, while such a result would see UKIP revive quicker than Lazarus
    Okay, you haven’t grasped Kellner’s piece. Read it again.
    This tactic would be a little less obnoxious if you'd at least include a link for the rest of us
    Yes, okay - I hadn’t meant to be “obnoxious” !!

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/over-half-of-tory-voters-dont-expect-a-good-brexit-deal-poll-shows-a3919321.html
    Great graphics for looking at subsamples!

    Online, I see, which were the polls that called it reasonably correctly. The last 3 yougov online polls all called the referendum correctly.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/22/two-massive-poll-boosts-for-remain-with-voting-starting-in-less-than-nine-hours/
    I’m not a fan of opinion polling. But at least this survey benchmarks against June 2016 and has a very large sample size:

    Kellner: “Moreover, YouGov polled people who reported their vote at the time of the referendum. This latest survey is able to compare how these same people, who backed Brexit by 52 to 48 per cent then, would vote today. The five-point increase in Remain support, from 48 per cent to 53 per cent today, is real.”
    It also backs up the poll they did the previous week with a 10,000+ sample size that also showed 53/47 for Remain.

    It's remarkable how much the figures for Leave are now dependent on Conservative voters. If they split the way they split in 2016 the majority for Remain would now be enormous. Just lifting the taboo against rethinking the Brexit decision could see a big swing to Remain.
    Interesting point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    Agreed.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,023
    kle4 said:

    In a surprise to nobody.....

    Chuka Umunna slams talk of breakaway party as 'false news'

    What?! You mean all those fringe people, anonymous leakers and people who have already left were talking a load of bollocks?!
    He can't know it's false. The only way you can categorically state these things is if you know they are true. So he's either lying or he knows that it's true and he's protecting the secret.

    There's not much point in lying randomly, so it's clear he's protecting a secret, and that indeed there have been discussions about a breakaway party, and that he has been involved.

    Mr Umunna has simply stated unambiguously that there has been talk of a breakaway party. I guess we knew that anyway, but thanks for the confirmation.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Roger said:

    Seeing as the whole Finklestein thesis depends on a detailed textural analysis it's worth looking at the text. The bar for racism has never been lower since Bannon Trump Boris and the Brexiteers Robinson Netanyahu etc etc so this should be judged against that backdrop...


    “The other evening we had a meeting in parliament in which Manuel [the Palestinian ambassador] made an incredibly powerful and passionate and effective speech about the history of Palestine and the rights of the Palestinian people. This was dutifully recorded by the – the thankfully silent Zionists who were in the audience on that occasion, and then came up and berated him afterwards for what he had said. They clearly have two problems: one is they don’t want to study history and secondly having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either. They needed two lessons, which we could perhaps help them with.”

    But apparently Manuel Hassassian *is* a master of English irony, despite never living here at all? And as for that last sentence - I have rarely read anything nastier.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    edited August 2018
    Great ongoing coverage of the heightened earthquake activity after the enormous deep 8.2 quake near Fiji at the beginning of the week. Dutchsinse is fantastic, and helping to save lives too, by warning people in advance where earthquakes are likely to strike:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egk3PSv1_VA
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have to empathise with everyone. Corbyn simply does not
    I don't think that first sentence stands up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
    You have helped to wreck the country because you decided that it was more important to leave the EU than oppose xenophobic lies.

    Instead of intoning piously at someone who would no more vote for Jeremy Corbyn than the current incarnation of the Conservative party, hellbent as it is on implementing shambolically the most damaging policy since the Second World War, reflect on your own part in this country’s long term decline.
    You seem to have regressed in the last two to three weeks to the worst forms of yourself you were a year or so ago.

    I’m not sure why. You’d got much better, and I thought you were now beyond this.
    I don’t need commentary on myself from someone who decided that hating the EU was more important than confronting xenophobia.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,812
    hunchman said:

    Dutchsinse is fantastic, and helping to save lives too, by warning people in advance where earthquakes are likely to strike:

    I just clicked on a point at random in that video and he's saying, "We warned the shores of Devon down near Salcombe..."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922

    hunchman said:

    Dutchsinse is fantastic, and helping to save lives too, by warning people in advance where earthquakes are likely to strike:

    I just clicked on a point at random in that video and he's saying, "We warned the shores of Devon down near Salcombe..."
    Perhaps he meant fantasist or fanatic, rather than ‘fantastic’, and autocorrect did its thing ?
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    hunchman said:

    Anazina said:

    Hunchman

    All roads lead to Finchley?

    They did until it all got closed down in a huge panic at the end of February last year.

    As for Brian Harvey, he's up on a trumped up charge of "malicious communications" - he just happened to be exposing the fraud, theft and money laundering.....and the powers that be, including some gatekeepers to that whole wretched network didn't like it. They don't like me either :(
    Is Brian Harvey a mate of Tommy Robinson?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922
    This is possibly the most unexpected F1 story of the last decade ?
    https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/24/force-indias-rivals-agree-to-let-team-keep-prize-money/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779
    edited August 2018



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779
    Nigelb said:

    This is possibly the most unexpected F1 story of the last decade ?
    https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/24/force-indias-rivals-agree-to-let-team-keep-prize-money/

    They let someone else have money? Seems out of character.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
    You have helped to wreck the country because you decided that it was more important to leave the EU than oppose xenophobic lies.

    Instead of intoning piously at someone who would no more vote for Jeremy Corbyn than the current incarnation of the Conservative party, hellbent as it is on implementing shambolically the most damaging policy since the Second World War, reflect on your own part in this country’s long term decline.
    You seem to have regressed in the last two to three weeks to the worst forms of yourself you were a year or so ago.

    I’m not sure why. You’d got much better, and I thought you were now beyond this.
    I don’t need commentary on myself from someone who decided that hating the EU was more important than confronting xenophobia.
    Tough. You see fit to make sweeping judgements on others. So you’ll get it on yourself too.

    I’m very happy with the campaign I fought, and stand by every minute of it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    kle4 said:



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
    He’s regressed to the level of playground insults on here today.

    That tells you everything you need to know.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501
    Nigelb said:

    This is possibly the most unexpected F1 story of the last decade ?
    https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/24/force-indias-rivals-agree-to-let-team-keep-prize-money/

    Res a lot more to it though, the ‘new’ FI have lost all their accumulated points from this season as a new entrant, yet forced to accept already used engine components rather than starting from scratch. Every other team except FI will get more prize money as a result of this deal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    kle4 said:



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
    He’s regressed to the level of playground insults on here today.

    That tells you everything you need to know.
    Both of you dimly recognise that the country has been shipwrecked on Brexit. It is a national disaster and it will take generations to recover, however things pan out from here.

    And you’re both culpable. You had the opportunity to stand for decency and against racism and you chose to indulge your hatred of the EU instead. The country is trapped by the xenophobic lies you endorsed.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Seeing as the whole Finklestein thesis depends on a detailed textural analysis it's worth looking at the text. The bar for racism has never been lower since Bannon Trump Boris and the Brexiteers Robinson Netanyahu etc etc so this should be judged against that backdrop...


    “The other evening we had a meeting in parliament in which Manuel [the Palestinian ambassador] made an incredibly powerful and passionate and effective speech about the history of Palestine and the rights of the Palestinian people. This was dutifully recorded by the – the thankfully silent Zionists who were in the audience on that occasion, and then came up and berated him afterwards for what he had said. They clearly have two problems: one is they don’t want to study history and secondly having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either. They needed two lessons, which we could perhaps help them with.”

    But apparently Manuel Hassassian *is* a master of English irony, despite never living here at all? And as for that last sentence - I have rarely read anything nastier.
    It seems to me that he/they had problems with some in the audience who gave the Palestinian speakers a hard time which explains the 'they' and 'them'. In other words he was not generically referring to Jews but to the objectors. The last line as you say is sinister and a little chilling
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Some good polls for the Social Democrats in Sweden but no knock out punch.

    I think 2/1 would be a fair price, currently ~2.4
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,779
    edited August 2018

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    I'm generally of the view that even if provoked, even when the intention is to provoke to salve an emotional hurt, responding to that provocation is still ultimately the responsibility and shame of the person reacting, so I apologise for adding to the lowering of the discourse. I even know it is what some people want to make themselves feel better, that couldn't be more obvious, and I still fall for it. I'd hope to be better than that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    But I like discussing AV...

  • Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    Discussion of best pizza toppings? It’s Pineapple of course....;-)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is possibly the most unexpected F1 story of the last decade ?
    https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/24/force-indias-rivals-agree-to-let-team-keep-prize-money/

    Res a lot more to it though, the ‘new’ FI have lost all their accumulated points from this season as a new entrant, yet forced to accept already used engine components rather than starting from scratch. Every other team except FI will get more prize money as a result of this deal.
    Now that sounds more like the F1 I know and love.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,922
    edited August 2018

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    Discussion of best pizza toppings? It’s Pineapple of course....;-)
    The original and best use of pineapple was as an ostentatious table decoration.


    Putting it on top of pizza is some unconscious atavistic memory of this, perhaps.
    And clearly nothing to do with taste.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    Anazina said:

    Hunchman

    All roads lead to Finchley?

    They did until it all got closed down in a huge panic at the end of February last year.

    As for Brian Harvey, he's up on a trumped up charge of "malicious communications" - he just happened to be exposing the fraud, theft and money laundering.....and the powers that be, including some gatekeepers to that whole wretched network didn't like it. They don't like me either :(
    Is Brian Harvey a mate of Tommy Robinson?
    You'll have to ask him! I don't think so!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,704
    bloody unionists how low can they stoop
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    kle4 said:



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
    He’s regressed to the level of playground insults on here today.

    That tells you everything you need to know.
    Both of you dimly recognise that the country has been shipwrecked on Brexit. It is a national disaster and it will take generations to recover, however things pan out from here.

    And you’re both culpable. You had the opportunity to stand for decency and against racism and you chose to indulge your hatred of the EU instead. The country is trapped by the xenophobic lies you endorsed.
    I stand for decency, oppose racism and also favour our departure from the EU.

    Much as it might pain you to hear it you don’t have a monopoly on truth or being right. Whilst you’re certainly very clever and insightful, you’re not quite as clever and insightful as you think you are: yes, you’ve made some excellent calls, and you’ve also got it very badly wrong on more than one occasion.

    This is one of those times, and that’s ok:we’re all human.

    I just feel sorry for you when you get like this. It’s not healthy for you to lash out at others who disagree with you with such anger and personal bitterness.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Anyone seen Russia's answer to Tesla? Looks like the old Lada ...
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/24/russias-electric-car-tesla-rival-is-the-kalashnikov-cv-1.html
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    kle4 said:

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    I'm generally of the view that even if provoked, even when the intention is to provoke to salve an emotional hurt, responding to that provocation is still ultimately the responsibility and shame of the person reacting, so I apologise for adding to the lowering of the discourse. I even know it is what some people want to make themselves feel better, that couldn't be more obvious, and I still fall for it. I'd hope to be better than that.
    There are times when I type out a reply and then delete it before posting. And there are times when I just can't stop myself.

    We all have issues that can trigger us into a reaction.

    I am by no means innocent of being overly direct in my postings. So I am not pointing fingers at anyone. I am just hoping we can all be a bit more moderate and not always rise to the bait - no matter how tempting it is to hit back.
  • MTimT said:

    Anyone seen Russia's answer to Tesla? Looks like the old Lada ...
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/24/russias-electric-car-tesla-rival-is-the-kalashnikov-cv-1.html

    It’s right up jezzas alley. 70s throwback, Russian made and eco.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Being seen as favouring Muslims over Jews isn't going to be a game changing vote loser for Corbyn any more than being seen to be anti immigrant was for Leave. The only people horrified are those who want him out anyway. His supporters will frame it as him sticking up for the little guy.

    "One mans freedom fighter is another's terrorist..."

    To be PM of the UK you have up to be honest.
    So which British citizens does TM not stand up for
    The ones she labelled citizens of nowhere.
    So tax avoiders then?
    She is a Prime Minister for prejudiced provincials. She offers nothing to anyone who lives and works inside the M25 or other urban areas,
    Not true. But your own prejudice won’t let you understand that
    Take a look at the 2017 election results. There seem to be a lot of prejudiced people inside the M25 and other urban areas. Or perhaps they’ve got it right and the Conservatives have shrivelled into the party for ugly reactionaries.
    One day, perhaps when we have an anti-Semitic prime minister, you will understand what you helped happen through your unwillingness to understand your fellow countrymen and women

    I feel sorry for you, I really do. I hope you recover your equilibrium in due course
    You decline.
    You seem to have regressed in the last two to three weeks to the worst forms of yourself you were a year or so ago.

    I’m not sure why. You’d got much better, and I thought you were now beyond this.
    I don’t need commentary on myself from someone who decided that hating the EU was more important than confronting xenophobia.
    Tough. You see fit to make sweeping judgements on others. So you’ll get it on yourself too.

    I’m very happy with the campaign I fought, and stand by every minute of it.
    You've got to have a heart of stone not to laugh at the Remoaners. I can't wait until the day the Euro comes crashing down, because they failed to consolidate the debt over the circulating area of the doomed currency. It's going to be a hoot! And then so many people will wonder why they spent and wasted so much time debating Brexit.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    Discussion of best pizza toppings? It’s Pineapple of course....;-)
    There is nothing that is enhanced by the presence of pineapple. Nothing I tell you!

    (It ranks alongside coconut as one of my most hated flavours!)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    kle4 said:



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
    He’s regressed to the level of playground insults on here today.

    That tells you everything you need to know.
    Both of you dimly recognise that the country has been shipwrecked on Brexit. It is a national disaster and it will take generations to recover, however things pan out from here.

    And you’re both culpable. You had the opportunity to stand for decency and against racism and you chose to indulge your hatred of the EU instead. The country is trapped by the xenophobic lies you endorsed.
    I stand for decency, oppose racism and also favour our departure from the EU.

    Much as it might pain you to hear it you don’t have a monopoly on truth or being right. Whilst you’re certainly very clever and insightful, you’re not quite as clever and insightful as you think you are: yes, you’ve made some excellent calls, and you’ve also got it very badly wrong on more than one occasion.

    This is one of those times, and that’s ok:we’re all human.

    I just feel sorry for you when you get like this. It’s not healthy for you to lash out at others who disagree with you with such anger and personal bitterness.
    You decided that “favouring our departure from the EU” was more important than confronting racism. I expect you would think that any Labour supporters who are thinking of voting Labour to support the poorest in society should prioritise opposing anti-Semitism. It’s not healthy to be so hypocritical.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited August 2018

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    Discussion of best pizza toppings? It’s Pineapple of course....;-)
    When I lived in Italy, my local pizza place did a Pizza di Maradonna (footballer) which was a topping of ricotta and Parma ham. It was very good.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    kle4 said:



    I don’t need commentary on myself .

    And yet you are so content to frequently, misleadingly, hypocritically and arrogantly do the same with others with absolutely no level of self awareness, reflection or humility. I won't presume to know your mind, though you pay no one the same courtesy, as to why that is though.
    He’s regressed to the level of playground insults on here today.

    That tells you everything you need to know.
    Both of you dimly recognise that the country has been shipwrecked on Brexit. It is a national disaster and it will take generations to recover, however things pan out from here.

    And you’re both culpable. You had the opportunity to stand for decency and against racism and you chose to indulge your hatred of the EU instead. The country is trapped by the xenophobic lies you endorsed.
    I stand for decency, oppose racism and also favour our departure from the EU.

    Much as it might pain you to hear it you don’t have a monopoly on truth or being right. Whilst you’re certainly very clever and insightful, you’re not quite as clever and insightful as you think you are: yes, you’ve made some excellent calls, and you’ve also got it very badly wrong on more than one occasion.

    This is one of those times, and that’s ok:we’re all human.

    I just feel sorry for you when you get like this. It’s not healthy for you to lash out at others who disagree with you with such anger and personal bitterness.
    Just think what Mr Meeks et al will be like the day the Euro collapses. I can't wait!
  • Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    Discussion of best pizza toppings? It’s Pineapple of course....;-)
    There is nothing that is enhanced by the presence of pineapple. Nothing I tell you!

    (It ranks alongside coconut as one of my most hated flavours!)
    Coconut water...now that is “acquired” taste...to me it tastes like I imagine particularly dirty drain water does.
  • kle4 said:

    Today has been a bad day on PB.com

    The level of discourse has descended. All because of one topic - yet again.

    Could we have a break from it over the bank holiday? Think of it as the August Truce.

    Please.

    I'm generally of the view that even if provoked, even when the intention is to provoke to salve an emotional hurt, responding to that provocation is still ultimately the responsibility and shame of the person reacting, so I apologise for adding to the lowering of the discourse. I even know it is what some people want to make themselves feel better, that couldn't be more obvious, and I still fall for it. I'd hope to be better than that.
    You are to be fair - but some of the posts I have read today have been beyond anything that is acceptable and I second Oxfordsimon requests for a truce over the weekend

    I really do try not to be abusive or use unnecessary language as it is evidence of a very poor argument

    I do not participate on twitter but follow many on it and the extent of the fury against Corbyn coming from all sides and especially his own since his recent comments do seem to indicate a tsunami of objection to him and could indicate a groundswell of real opposition to him and his cabal
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,501
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is possibly the most unexpected F1 story of the last decade ?
    https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/24/force-indias-rivals-agree-to-let-team-keep-prize-money/

    Res a lot more to it though, the ‘new’ FI have lost all their accumulated points from this season as a new entrant, yet forced to accept already used engine components rather than starting from scratch. Every other team except FI will get more prize money as a result of this deal.
    Now that sounds more like the F1 I know and love.
    Indeed. The teams did take the middle option rather than completely screwing FI though, and I suspect the new commercial rights holder had something to say on the matter to those that were leaning that way.

    What I find hillarious about the whole thing, is that the investors are paying around $200m in total for what Vijay Malliya and Subrata Roy were trying to sell for around €200m, but in a way that means the Indians see not a cent on the deal.
This discussion has been closed.