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Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)AlastairMeeks said:For those interested, this is the FT article that Robert Harris’s tweet is based on:
https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"0 -
Oh, that's OK then "fuck business"John_M said:
That's one question, but even as a Spitfire-polishing Brexiteer, the logical answer is for Honda to move its manufacturing out of the UK. I wish I could recall where I saw the analysis (possibly the IFS, I'll dig around), but the regional breakdown of a WTO-based Brexit still forecast healthy long term trend growth (to 2030) of the economy overall, but it was a somewhat different economy in sectoral terms; London and the South East were predicted to do very well out of Brexit, but auto manufacturing? No.currystar said:
So what do you think the EU companies that supply Honda at Swindon are going to do?Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/10200672913613127680 -
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
But it hasn't been accepted. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.grabcocque said:
But it was accepted. May accepted it last December. I'm sure the fact that May has welched on one of the few things that has been agreed will definitely not go unnoticed.RobD said:
I'm not sure that's true. See their proposal for annexing a part of the UK.grabcocque said:
I mean, the EU are good at negotiating. They're not gonna make an offer with little chance of being accepted. Hence the impasse.RobD said:
Isn't that the eu's strategy, to say their deal is final and not budge one inch?0 -
JFC.Tykejohnno said:
So you want the remain side to be the modern Nazi's,those people liked marking out a certain group.
CAN YOU PEOPLE NOT TELL WHEN SOMEBODY IS OBVIOUSLY JOKING?
As amusing as it would be to just tag all leavers with GPS bracelets, I'm not sure it's particularly practical.0 -
Damn, I thought it was Pedants Boudoir. WTH am I doing here?Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
The backstop doesn't state anything about the Northern Ireland situation being extended across the Irish sea.grabcocque said:
But it was accepted. May accepted it last December. I'm sure the fact that May has welched on one of the few things that has been agreed will definitely not go unnoticed.RobD said:
I'm not sure that's true. See their proposal for annexing a part of the UK.grabcocque said:
I mean, the EU are good at negotiating. They're not gonna make an offer with little chance of being accepted. Hence the impasse.RobD said:
Isn't that the eu's strategy, to say their deal is final and not budge one inch?
May's objection is to Barnier's interpretation that the backstop can not be extended to the whole of the UK. That's an evolution from the agreed backstop and it is unconcsionable for a UK PM to effectively sign off a customs border in the Irish sea.
https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/our-backstop-cannot-be-extended-to-the-whole-uk-michel-barnier_en
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.0 -
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!Benpointer said:
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)AlastairMeeks said:For those interested, this is the FT article that Robert Harris’s tweet is based on:
https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"0 -
I am not running away because someone questions me, but I am wondering why I bang my head against this particular wall.Tykejohnno said:
Reasonable amiable way ? So she can do the insulting and have no comeback ,very fair of you Nick.NickPalmer said:
There are only about half a dozen people here who are obsessive about it, and I hope you'll skim over them and focus on the rest of us who are pursuing this and other issues in a reasonably amiable way, as per usual. Hope you'll stay!Beverley_C said:
So yes, I am thoroughly annoyed, more than a bit jaded and wondering if coming back to PB was a bad mistake.
If she wants to run away every time someone questions her post then this site isn't for her.
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Please keep posting - we need diversity of views!Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
I think there is a bit more than a double negative in that lotMarqueeMark said:And if Miliband hadn't been so adamanat about us not having a vote on the matter, they also wouldn' have won a majority, I'd suggest.....
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I agree. Not to do so was utterly negligent IMOcurrystar said:
If Blair & Brown had installed some immigration controls in 2004 as other EU countries did then that would certainly have reduced the leave vote.Beverley_C said:
What? I never heard Europhiles obsessing about Europe, quite the contrary - the people who obsessed about it where the Tory Eurosceptic wing and UKIP, all Leavers.Mortimer said:Outside of London, two generations have had to put up with smug europhiles obsessing about our place in europe.
Perhaps if the Europhiles did go on about Europe and some of the progress that it made we might have had no Brexit. Alternatively, if Dave & Co back in 2006 had slung them out of the Tory party we might not even have had a Brexit.0 -
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
I think you might have put your finger on the reason why I subject myself to thisJohn_M said:
Do hope you'll stay Beverley, though I can understand why you might not. I have to hold my nose on occasion, but I've been posting here off and on since 2006, so preserving my now ancient ritual is strangely important to me.Beverley_C said:
Yes, correct.Alanbrooke said:I thought you were on the record for saying you'll vote Jezza ? Non ?
I am also on record as saying that I wish I had a better option than that. Voting for Jezza is only marginally better than voting for the current shower.
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Cyclefree said:
+ 1 0 -
How will that play out with the new trading partners Liam is wooing? If the EU can send us any old crap surely they'll insist on being able to do likewise.archer101au said:
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.RobD said:
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.Stark_Dawning said:
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?Polruan said:
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.archer101au said:
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.Polruan said:
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?archer101au said:
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
What was the problem again?
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.0 -
Fair enough, I feel much better nowRobD said:
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!Benpointer said:
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)AlastairMeeks said:For those interested, this is the FT article that Robert Harris’s tweet is based on:
https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.0 -
I don't think Bev's viewpoint is particularly underrepresented!Benpointer said:
Please keep posting - we need diversity of views!Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
logical_song said:
'Swivel-eyed loons' is taken by UKIPpers, but I suppose they are a subset of ultra leavers.Beverley_C said:
Swivel-eyed loons?Alanbrooke said:
we now need a name for Brexit induced insanity
Remonanism - for those who have wanked themselves beyond rationality
Can anyone think of one for ultra leavers ?
Brexiteers?
Elderly Tory voters?
ERG-ers?
The others are much too polite.
I am (generally) a polite person. I only lose it occasionally
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Depends on your perspective. Didn't Pulpstar do a list a while back that showed that Leavers outnumber Remainers among regular PB posters?RobD said:
I don't think Bev's viewpoint is particularly underrepresented!Benpointer said:
Please keep posting - we need diversity of views!Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
After that posting blitz, I think I shall have a coffee0
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Well, it's a moot point now. The ERG amendments killed the backstop stone dead, which means we have to go back to where we were last December and start again over NI.Pulpstar said:
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
The EU will not agree to anything else until the NI matter is settled, and that's part of a timetable May agreed to in March 2017.0 -
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The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?archer101au said:
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.RobD said:
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.Stark_Dawning said:
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?Polruan said:
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.archer101au said:
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.Polruan said:
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?archer101au said:
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
What was the problem again?
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.0 -
I think bringing Romania into the EU was the proverbial straw. By around 2014 EU migration was slowing down, especially from the A8 nations, then the transitional controls came off Romania and suddenly immigration spiked all the way up and 500k Romanians arrived in the short space of two years. Romanian workers tend to also be less skilled than other Eastern European workers and tend also work in lower paid positions which require state assistance (due to the lesser skill levels).Beverley_C said:
I agree. Not to do so was utterly negligent IMOcurrystar said:
If Blair & Brown had installed some immigration controls in 2004 as other EU countries did then that would certainly have reduced the leave vote.Beverley_C said:
What? I never heard Europhiles obsessing about Europe, quite the contrary - the people who obsessed about it where the Tory Eurosceptic wing and UKIP, all Leavers.Mortimer said:Outside of London, two generations have had to put up with smug europhiles obsessing about our place in europe.
Perhaps if the Europhiles did go on about Europe and some of the progress that it made we might have had no Brexit. Alternatively, if Dave & Co back in 2006 had slung them out of the Tory party we might not even have had a Brexit.0 -
My my, Mamma Mia 2 was fantabolous.
Like its predecessor after watching it I needed a cigarette.
There’s also a Marvel style post credits scene.
So stop all this Brexit talk and go watch Mamma Mia 2 immediately.0 -
Well the good news is it doesn't have to be solved in 12 weeks.Scott_P said:0 -
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.Polruan said:
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?archer101au said:
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.RobD said:
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.Stark_Dawning said:
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?Polruan said:
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.archer101au said:
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.Polruan said:
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?archer101au said:
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
What was the problem again?
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.0 -
I don't think they were so few that they were in danger of extinction.Benpointer said:
Depends on your perspective. Didn't Pulpstar do a list a while back that showed that Leavers outnumber Remainers among regular PB posters?RobD said:
I don't think Bev's viewpoint is particularly underrepresented!Benpointer said:
Please keep posting - we need diversity of views!Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit0 -
The ERG amendments confirm the original text of the December agreement with regard to the backstop, as opposed to Barnier’s unilaterally revised March version of the same document that tries to annex Northern Ireland in the event of no deal.grabcocque said:
Well, it's a moot point now. The ERG amendments killed the backstop stone dead, which means we have to go back to where we were last December and start again over NI.Pulpstar said:
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
The EU will not agree to anything else until the NI matter is settled, and that's part of a timetable May agreed to in March 2017.0 -
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
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"Matthew Goodwin
Verified account @GoodwinMJ
2h2 hours ago
"Central and East Europe turned against liberalism not so much because it was failing at home as because in their view it was failing in the West"
Typically insightful essay from Ivan Krastev & Stephen Holmes on Europe's growing East-West divide
https://bit.ly/2uBhpoH"0 -
Shall suggested it to Mr's P - lots of Brownie Points there.TheScreamingEagles said:My my, Mamma Mia 2 was fantabolous.
Like its predecessor after watching it I needed a cigarette.
There’s also a Marvel style post credits scene.
So stop all this Brexit talk and go watch Mamma Mia 2 immediately.
Related, did anyone see Mark Kermode's Secrets of Cinema on the Beeb last week - episode 1 RomComs - it was a tour de force!0 -
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.Scott_P said:
Time for an FTA and divergence.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!0 -
Looks like it's a big fat NON, MERCI from Barnier.
As expected, but it's nice to have it in writing.0 -
Fair point. If it came to that you could just roll PB up into Order-OrderRobD said:
I don't think they were so few that they were in danger of extinction.Benpointer said:
Depends on your perspective. Didn't Pulpstar do a list a while back that showed that Leavers outnumber Remainers among regular PB posters?RobD said:
I don't think Bev's viewpoint is particularly underrepresented!Benpointer said:
Please keep posting - we need diversity of views!Beverley_C said:
Thanks. It may be temporary. This place is becoming a lunatic asylum.Sandpit said:
Welcome back Beverley, good to see you here again.Beverley_C said:
Do what many Leavers seem to do - leave. There is Australia, Dubai, LA, France, Italy ....rkrkrk said:
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.rottenborough said:
Here's Tony Blair on it all:
twitter.com/InstituteGC/status/1020013890950877184
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
(Waves from Dubai)
PB = Pathological Brexit 0 -
There isn't going to be an FTA, not now.Mortimer said:
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.Scott_P said:
Time for an FTA and divergence.
The UK has two options, crashing out or continuity remain.0 -
I thought Chequers was related to the future trading arrangement, not the withdrawal agreement that the EU love to talk about so much.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him.grabcocque said:Looks like it's a big fat NON, MERCI from Barnier.
As expected, but it's nice to have it in writing.0 -
As far as the EU is concerned, May supported the draft text of the backstop in both December and March, and has now reneged and is trying to rewrite history.
This will have further signified that any agreement from May isn't worth the bogroll it's scrawled on.0 -
Surely “either” change standards “or” decide there will be no delays? In the same way one can either eat one’s cake or have it?archer101au said:
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.Polruan said:
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?archer101au said:
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.RobD said:
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.Stark_Dawning said:
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?Polruan said:
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.archer101au said:
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.Polruan said:
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?archer101au said:
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
What was the problem again?
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.0 -
You are smarter than the FT journalist apply for the editors job.Benpointer said:
Fair enough, I feel much better nowRobD said:
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!Benpointer said:
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)AlastairMeeks said:For those interested, this is the FT article that Robert Harris’s tweet is based on:
https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.0 -
Thanks we have it recorded for when the nights draw in...Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!
Please don't mention the rain... 18 days since we had any in the North Dorset Desert, only 2.0mm since 31st may and none forecast on for the week ahead*. Lots of well-established trees looking unhappy now.
(*Actually there's a 70% chance of rain at 1:00am tonight according to the met office but they've done that before and none appeared - convinced they do it to make sure the rain symbols still work on their website.)0 -
Hah! Don't think they could afford me!ralphmalph said:
You are smarter than the FT journalist apply for the editors job.Benpointer said:
Fair enough, I feel much better nowRobD said:
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!Benpointer said:
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)AlastairMeeks said:For those interested, this is the FT article that Robert Harris’s tweet is based on:
https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.0 -
How did it compare with the first series? That's the only one I've watched so far.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!0 -
Mr. Pointer, thought you were talking about having the rain recorded at first
We could do with a lot more rain too. Think everyone could do with a lot more.
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Afternoon, Mr.D.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Vettel was not onboard with the program in FP1...0 -
There should be some at Hockenheim tomorrow. Possibly quite a lot of it.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, thought you were talking about having the rain recorded at first
We could do with a lot more rain too. Think everyone could do with a lot more.
Edit. Annoyingly there’s no F2 or F3 races this weekend, so there won’t be any advance TV converage that might help with identifying value bets.
Edit2. Ricciardo will start at the back for a new engine and various other bits. None of the rest of the top 6 have any penalties so far.0 -
Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.0
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Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.Foxy said:
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
Mr currystar,
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
On what point has the EU conceded anything?0 -
Hah, if we had the the rain recorded Mrs P would be making me binge watch it over and over again!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, thought you were talking about having the rain recorded at first
We could do with a lot more rain too. Think everyone could do with a lot more.0 -
Breaking, several wounded in a knife attack in Lubeck:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-449041830 -
Clearly we just need an FTD then everything will be fine.Benpointer said:0 -
That there should be a transition period.CD13 said:Mr currystar,
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
On what point has the EU conceded anything?0 -
At least *somebody* is preparing.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
0 -
The EU has never and will never compromise on free movement of people. They know if they give even 1% away on it then it opens them up to a fracturing of it on the continent.0
-
Mr. B, not the first time German intransigence has harmed British interests
Mr. Sandpit, aye, potential for rain to affect the race too. Red Bull, Alonso and maybe Sainz/Hulkenberg might benefit (Hulkenberg can be very good in the wet but he's not as good at tight and twisty tracks as fast flowing ones).
Mr. Pulpstar, provides impetus for a drive for a second referendum, as well as the blame game.0 -
So he must be dead proud at having lanced the boil once and for all (cough)Foxy said:
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
We’ve been preparing for years.grabcocque said:
At least *somebody* is preparing.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
Well the firm I work for.
I’m officially more competent than HMG.0 -
We’ll have a CETA style agreement and diverge.Benpointer said:
This is what happens when you have an yuge trade deficit with a group that likes selling stuff.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/20/labour-code-of-conduct-not-antisemitic
This seems a more balanced view.0 -
All about the Good Ship May, toot toot
Brexit Falls are only 9 months away, toot toot0 -
I don't think they are bluffing. May might be though, any deal signed will be far far closer to Barnier's position than Mays now.Sandpit said:
Yep. Time to call their bluff, we have 9 months and £40bn to prepare and can’t wait any longer with the clock running down.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
0 -
As @Benpointer pointed out upthread, insulting people is a fairly harmless element of the whole shebang. You will get that on internet chatrooms; it's part of the vernacular.NickPalmer said:
Mmm, but those brackets you inserted are relevant. Of course we should discuss Brexit, but skim over the sort of personal bile which infects a small minority. I've been posting here for almost as long as anyone, and it's always been tedious to read that poster Xywqft thinks psoter Ycwfght is a loon/traitor/idiot etc. - who cares what these unknown people think of each other?TOPPING said:
skimming over (people who are obsessive about) Brexit is skimming over the most important political issue of our epoch.NickPalmer said:
There are only about half a dozen people here who are obsessive about it, and I hope you'll skim over them and focus on the rest of us who are pursuing this and other issues in a reasonably amiable way, as per usual. Hope you'll stay!Beverley_C said:
So yes, I am thoroughly annoyed, more than a bit jaded and wondering if coming back to PB was a bad mistake.
I would be very sad if any valued poster leaves (apart from XXXX and XXXXXX and...) but Brexit's the only game in town!
I'm less bothered if they vent about well-known figures - at least we know who they're talking about, and it does actually matter what May, Corbyn etc. are actually like. But more nuanced comment is always welcome.
Look at it like a boxing match where afterwards the combatants usually shake hands if not hug.
That said XXXXXXX XXXXXXX is a twat.0 -
Mr Eagles,
"That there should be a transition period."
I'm not sure that's a concession. It suits them to take as long as possible. They'd rather like us to get so pissed off that enough people will say … "Oh ffs, why are we bothering."
We'd then return and offer them more money without retaining any influence.
Barnier cannot give any concessions, and won't try unless we really really want to leave, and only then at the last moment, if at all.
In a way, I'm glad that's settled. It would have been nice to see a few concessions on FOM, but I understand their fears. In fact, if Dave had returned with something on that, Remain would have won the referendum.
0 -
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?0
-
5?Dadge said:
Let me get this straight. They take in 33,333 cubic metres of parts every day. The size of a large (40-foot) shipping container is 67 cubic metres. That means they receive 500 containers of parts every day, or one every 3 minutes. If every container takes 15 minutes to unload, how many unloading bays do they need?Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
Show your working.0 -
-
I'm not a big fan of a second referendum. I'm also not a big fan of governments carrying out policies that aren't in the best interests of the country, especially when they're on the basis of opinions that have now shifted.rkrkrk said:
I think that's pretty margin of error stuff, given that the polls were showing a remain lead before the referendum. When it gets to 60/65/70% for Remain/Rejoin, then it's time for a second referendum.Dadge said:
Not sure why people are saying that opinions haven't changed - polls suggest that about 5% of voters have Bremorse, which is obviously enough to swing the vote. https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/991714149871816704rkrkrk said:
I think that's exactly what the stability of the polls shows.williamglenn said:
The knowledge of the voters has changed so whatever decision we make next time will be more informed, and we will have to accept the consequences of that decision.rkrkrk said:The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed.
So what happens if Remain loses a second time?
Well we've just trashed the compromise that's been put together - so hard Brexit is the only thing left.
I don't think you can read into the stability of the polls that people's minds haven't changed. It's really striking how excerpts of the 2016 debates already seem like they come from another era.
I don't think the knowledge of voters has increased very much either.
The fundamental problem I see is that Leave voters were warned of bad consequences and they chose to ignore those warnings, or they think the upsides will be worth it.
Until the decision is tested, and we have actual experience of how it will go, why would you change your mind on the basis of another batch of warnings?0 -
I think that sitting in a cell with the keys in your hand and not using them to unlock the cell door is not only the very definition of insanity but is also the opening passage of a Kafka novel.archer101au said:
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.Polruan said:
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?archer101au said:
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.RobD said:
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.Stark_Dawning said:
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?Polruan said:
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.archer101au said:
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.Polruan said:
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?archer101au said:
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.Scott_P said:One for our manufacturing "experts"...
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/1020067291361312768
What was the problem again?
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.0 -
The longer we wait the more difficult it’s going to be to prepare for anything except complete capitulation. A bunch of adults would agree to disagree now, prepare for leaving the EU to WTO terms and spend the remaining time making sure planes keep flying and Honda or Airbus don’t run out of parts.Pulpstar said:
I don't think they are bluffing. May might be though, any deal signed will be far far closer to Barnier's position than Mays now.Sandpit said:
Yep. Time to call their bluff, we have 9 months and £40bn to prepare and can’t wait any longer with the clock running down.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
0 -
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
He lanced the boil, but was quite surprised when none of the pus was satisfied with his interventionHarris_Tweed said:
So he must be dead proud at having lanced the boil once and for all (cough)Foxy said:
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
The very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.Dadge said:
Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.Foxy said:
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
A lot of City firms are waiting until October before moving those affected staff out to their respective coverage countries.TheScreamingEagles said:
We’ve been preparing for years.grabcocque said:
At least *somebody* is preparing.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
Well the firm I work for.
I’m officially more competent than HMG.0 -
Probably because, as many of us Tory members have known for many years, he is lazy and hopeless, with the personal appeal of the average hemeroidDavid_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
A Frothing-Transmitted Disease. Like Brexitis, for example.grabcocque said:
Clearly we just need an FTD then everything will be fine.Benpointer said:0 -
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
Not for us Labour Leavers. Getting rid of Cameron and Osborne was the cherry on top of the Brexit cake.TOPPING said:
The very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.Dadge said:
Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.Foxy said:
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.El_Capitano said:
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.grabcocque said:
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.Sean_F said:
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.0 -
Only unbelievable if you think the purpose of Chequers was to resolve Britain’s relationship with the EU for benefit of all parties, rather than part of the ongoing process of Tory party management and blame allocation.TOPPING said:
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.0 -
No, he resigned because he was intelligent enough to understand the mess that he had helped create, and he knew that Brexit had been sold on a false prospectus, so he did what any lazy shyster does and ran away into the sunset to write his memoirs.Sandpit said:
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
O/T
"Fourteen people have been wounded, some seriously, in a knife attack on a bus in the German city of Luebeck, local reports said.
Police in the city, in the northern state of Schleswig-Holstein, said a major police operation was under way."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-449041830 -
In your opinion?Nigel_Foremain said:
No, he resigned because he was intelligent enough to understand the mess that he had helped create, and he knew that Brexit had been sold on a false prospectus, so he did what any lazy shyster does and ran away into the sunset to write his memoirs.Sandpit said:
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.0 -
0
-
Shortly before the Chequers meeting, Merkel was publicly arguing that separating goods and services is old-fashioned.TOPPING said:
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.David_Evershed said:
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.Stark_Dawning said:IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
https://twitter.com/RagnarWeilandt/status/10067895112155422720 -
This is how a bloke called Piers appeals to the people he secretly regards as plebs. I am surprised he didn't mention 1966 too!williamglenn said:0 -
I fond myself agreeing with your posts, even as I look at your avatar.Dura_Ace said:I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
It is inducing severe cognitive dissonance....0 -
Looking forward to that extra decade of austerity then, Piers ?williamglenn said:0 -
A room for you both?Nigelb said:
I fond myself agreeing with your posts, even as I look at your avatar.Dura_Ace said:I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
It is inducing severe cognitive dissonance....0 -
It was more his tone than anything else. In the past he has been completely dismissive.CD13 said:Mr currystar,
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
On what point has the EU conceded anything?0 -
Don't undersell yourself like that.TheScreamingEagles said:
...I’m officially more competent than HMG.grabcocque said:
At least *somebody* is preparing.Pulpstar said:Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
0 -
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?Dura_Ace said:I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.0
This discussion has been closed.