So what do you think the EU companies that supply Honda at Swindon are going to do?
That's one question, but even as a Spitfire-polishing Brexiteer, the logical answer is for Honda to move its manufacturing out of the UK. I wish I could recall where I saw the analysis (possibly the IFS, I'll dig around), but the regional breakdown of a WTO-based Brexit still forecast healthy long term trend growth (to 2030) of the economy overall, but it was a somewhat different economy in sectoral terms; London and the South East were predicted to do very well out of Brexit, but auto manufacturing? No.
Isn't that the eu's strategy, to say their deal is final and not budge one inch?
I mean, the EU are good at negotiating. They're not gonna make an offer with little chance of being accepted. Hence the impasse.
I'm not sure that's true. See their proposal for annexing a part of the UK.
But it was accepted. May accepted it last December. I'm sure the fact that May has welched on one of the few things that has been agreed will definitely not go unnoticed.
But it hasn't been accepted. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Isn't that the eu's strategy, to say their deal is final and not budge one inch?
I mean, the EU are good at negotiating. They're not gonna make an offer with little chance of being accepted. Hence the impasse.
I'm not sure that's true. See their proposal for annexing a part of the UK.
But it was accepted. May accepted it last December. I'm sure the fact that May has welched on one of the few things that has been agreed will definitely not go unnoticed.
The backstop doesn't state anything about the Northern Ireland situation being extended across the Irish sea. May's objection is to Barnier's interpretation that the backstop can not be extended to the whole of the UK. That's an evolution from the agreed backstop and it is unconcsionable for a UK PM to effectively sign off a customs border in the Irish sea.
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
So yes, I am thoroughly annoyed, more than a bit jaded and wondering if coming back to PB was a bad mistake.
There are only about half a dozen people here who are obsessive about it, and I hope you'll skim over them and focus on the rest of us who are pursuing this and other issues in a reasonably amiable way, as per usual. Hope you'll stay!
Reasonable amiable way ? So she can do the insulting and have no comeback ,very fair of you Nick.
If she wants to run away every time someone questions her post then this site isn't for her.
I am not running away because someone questions me, but I am wondering why I bang my head against this particular wall.
Outside of London, two generations have had to put up with smug europhiles obsessing about our place in europe.
What? I never heard Europhiles obsessing about Europe, quite the contrary - the people who obsessed about it where the Tory Eurosceptic wing and UKIP, all Leavers.
Perhaps if the Europhiles did go on about Europe and some of the progress that it made we might have had no Brexit. Alternatively, if Dave & Co back in 2006 had slung them out of the Tory party we might not even have had a Brexit.
If Blair & Brown had installed some immigration controls in 2004 as other EU countries did then that would certainly have reduced the leave vote.
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
I thought you were on the record for saying you'll vote Jezza ? Non ?
Yes, correct.
I am also on record as saying that I wish I had a better option than that. Voting for Jezza is only marginally better than voting for the current shower.
Do hope you'll stay Beverley, though I can understand why you might not. I have to hold my nose on occasion, but I've been posting here off and on since 2006, so preserving my now ancient ritual is strangely important to me.
I think you might have put your finger on the reason why I subject myself to this
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.
What was the problem again?
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.
How will that play out with the new trading partners Liam is wooing? If the EU can send us any old crap surely they'll insist on being able to do likewise.
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!
Fair enough, I feel much better now
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
Well, it's a moot point now. The ERG amendments killed the backstop stone dead, which means we have to go back to where we were last December and start again over NI.
The EU will not agree to anything else until the NI matter is settled, and that's part of a timetable May agreed to in March 2017.
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.
What was the problem again?
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?
Outside of London, two generations have had to put up with smug europhiles obsessing about our place in europe.
What? I never heard Europhiles obsessing about Europe, quite the contrary - the people who obsessed about it where the Tory Eurosceptic wing and UKIP, all Leavers.
Perhaps if the Europhiles did go on about Europe and some of the progress that it made we might have had no Brexit. Alternatively, if Dave & Co back in 2006 had slung them out of the Tory party we might not even have had a Brexit.
If Blair & Brown had installed some immigration controls in 2004 as other EU countries did then that would certainly have reduced the leave vote.
I agree. Not to do so was utterly negligent IMO
I think bringing Romania into the EU was the proverbial straw. By around 2014 EU migration was slowing down, especially from the A8 nations, then the transitional controls came off Romania and suddenly immigration spiked all the way up and 500k Romanians arrived in the short space of two years. Romanian workers tend to also be less skilled than other Eastern European workers and tend also work in lower paid positions which require state assistance (due to the lesser skill levels).
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.
What was the problem again?
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
Well, it's a moot point now. The ERG amendments killed the backstop stone dead, which means we have to go back to where we were last December and start again over NI.
The EU will not agree to anything else until the NI matter is settled, and that's part of a timetable May agreed to in March 2017.
The ERG amendments confirm the original text of the December agreement with regard to the backstop, as opposed to Barnier’s unilaterally revised March version of the same document that tries to annex Northern Ireland in the event of no deal.
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Time for an FTA and divergence.
There isn't going to be an FTA, not now.
The UK has two options, crashing out or continuity remain.
As far as the EU is concerned, May supported the draft text of the backstop in both December and March, and has now reneged and is trying to rewrite history.
This will have further signified that any agreement from May isn't worth the bogroll it's scrawled on.
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.
What was the problem again?
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.
Surely “either” change standards “or” decide there will be no delays? In the same way one can either eat one’s cake or have it?
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!
Fair enough, I feel much better now
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.
You are smarter than the FT journalist apply for the editors job.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!
Thanks we have it recorded for when the nights draw in...
Please don't mention the rain... 18 days since we had any in the North Dorset Desert, only 2.0mm since 31st may and none forecast on for the week ahead*. Lots of well-established trees looking unhappy now.
(*Actually there's a 70% chance of rain at 1:00am tonight according to the met office but they've done that before and none appeared - convinced they do it to make sure the rain symbols still work on their website.)
Search on this to avoid the paywall (sorry FT but you make it too easy!)
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
I think google pay them every time you go through to their website by searching for the article. They don't mind!
Fair enough, I feel much better now
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.
You are smarter than the FT journalist apply for the editors job.
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Time for an FTA and divergence.
You do know what the A stands for in FTA don't you?
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Time for an FTA and divergence.
You do know what the A stands for in FTA don't you?
Clearly we just need an FTD then everything will be fine.
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
The EU has never and will never compromise on free movement of people. They know if they give even 1% away on it then it opens them up to a fracturing of it on the continent.
Mr. B, not the first time German intransigence has harmed British interests
Mr. Sandpit, aye, potential for rain to affect the race too. Red Bull, Alonso and maybe Sainz/Hulkenberg might benefit (Hulkenberg can be very good in the wet but he's not as good at tight and twisty tracks as fast flowing ones).
Mr. Pulpstar, provides impetus for a drive for a second referendum, as well as the blame game.
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
So he must be dead proud at having lanced the boil once and for all (cough)
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Time for an FTA and divergence.
You do know what the A stands for in FTA don't you?
We’ll have a CETA style agreement and diverge.
This is what happens when you have an yuge trade deficit with a group that likes selling stuff.
So yes, I am thoroughly annoyed, more than a bit jaded and wondering if coming back to PB was a bad mistake.
There are only about half a dozen people here who are obsessive about it, and I hope you'll skim over them and focus on the rest of us who are pursuing this and other issues in a reasonably amiable way, as per usual. Hope you'll stay!
skimming over (people who are obsessive about) Brexit is skimming over the most important political issue of our epoch.
I would be very sad if any valued poster leaves (apart from XXXX and XXXXXX and...) but Brexit's the only game in town!
Mmm, but those brackets you inserted are relevant. Of course we should discuss Brexit, but skim over the sort of personal bile which infects a small minority. I've been posting here for almost as long as anyone, and it's always been tedious to read that poster Xywqft thinks psoter Ycwfght is a loon/traitor/idiot etc. - who cares what these unknown people think of each other?
I'm less bothered if they vent about well-known figures - at least we know who they're talking about, and it does actually matter what May, Corbyn etc. are actually like. But more nuanced comment is always welcome.
As @Benpointer pointed out upthread, insulting people is a fairly harmless element of the whole shebang. You will get that on internet chatrooms; it's part of the vernacular.
Look at it like a boxing match where afterwards the combatants usually shake hands if not hug.
I'm not sure that's a concession. It suits them to take as long as possible. They'd rather like us to get so pissed off that enough people will say … "Oh ffs, why are we bothering."
We'd then return and offer them more money without retaining any influence.
Barnier cannot give any concessions, and won't try unless we really really want to leave, and only then at the last moment, if at all.
In a way, I'm glad that's settled. It would have been nice to see a few concessions on FOM, but I understand their fears. In fact, if Dave had returned with something on that, Remain would have won the referendum.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
Let me get this straight. They take in 33,333 cubic metres of parts every day. The size of a large (40-foot) shipping container is 67 cubic metres. That means they receive 500 containers of parts every day, or one every 3 minutes. If every container takes 15 minutes to unload, how many unloading bays do they need?
The key thing is that the views of the voters haven't changed. So what happens if Remain loses a second time? Well we've just trashed the compromise that's been put together - so hard Brexit is the only thing left.
The knowledge of the voters has changed so whatever decision we make next time will be more informed, and we will have to accept the consequences of that decision.
I don't think you can read into the stability of the polls that people's minds haven't changed. It's really striking how excerpts of the 2016 debates already seem like they come from another era.
I think that's exactly what the stability of the polls shows. I don't think the knowledge of voters has increased very much either.
The fundamental problem I see is that Leave voters were warned of bad consequences and they chose to ignore those warnings, or they think the upsides will be worth it.
Until the decision is tested, and we have actual experience of how it will go, why would you change your mind on the basis of another batch of warnings?
I think that's pretty margin of error stuff, given that the polls were showing a remain lead before the referendum. When it gets to 60/65/70% for Remain/Rejoin, then it's time for a second referendum.
I'm not a big fan of a second referendum. I'm also not a big fan of governments carrying out policies that aren't in the best interests of the country, especially when they're on the basis of opinions that have now shifted.
Soooo...the sovereign UK decides that car components that comply with EU standards will get automatic customs clearance at the border.
What was the problem again?
Checking shipments to see if they contain car components complying with EU standards? Having to accept product defined by standards we have no control over in a vassaly kind of way?
We don’t have to check them if we don’t want to. We don’t at the moment.
Choosing to accept a standard and having one imposed are rather different things....
We don’t have standards imposed at the moment. We choose to participate in a union where we play a role in the setting of standards applied by all of the members. Accepting imports unchecked would be the same situation only without having a role in setting standards.
What happens if the EU suddenly changes a standard in a way we don't find acceptable? Would the barriers have to go up overnight or would we just lump it?
Changes like that are rarely made so fast.
We can change a standard if it is our best interests. We can change a standard and allow a long period for this to take effect. We can even agree to accept two or more standards if it suits us. That is what being sovereign is all about.
The point is that there will be no delays to inbound supply chains if we decide that we don’t want any delays.
The logic of what you’re saying seems to be that we are sovereign because we can change standards, but only at the expense of unpalatable delays to inbound supply chains and other economic damage - but isn’t that also our position as members of the EU?
What I am saying quite clearly is that we can both change standards and decide fhere will be no delays, if that suits our interests. We can change our standard and still accept another. We can do whatever we like. There will be no delays if we decide that this is most important.
I think that sitting in a cell with the keys in your hand and not using them to unlock the cell door is not only the very definition of insanity but is also the opening passage of a Kafka novel.
Well seems like Barnier and the EU are prepared for a deal not to be reached.
Yep. Time to call their bluff, we have 9 months and £40bn to prepare and can’t wait any longer with the clock running down.
I don't think they are bluffing. May might be though, any deal signed will be far far closer to Barnier's position than Mays now.
The longer we wait the more difficult it’s going to be to prepare for anything except complete capitulation. A bunch of adults would agree to disagree now, prepare for leaving the EU to WTO terms and spend the remaining time making sure planes keep flying and Honda or Airbus don’t run out of parts.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
So he must be dead proud at having lanced the boil once and for all (cough)
He lanced the boil, but was quite surprised when none of the pus was satisfied with his intervention
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.
The very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
Probably because, as many of us Tory members have known for many years, he is lazy and hopeless, with the personal appeal of the average hemeroid
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.
Chequers was the EU’s last chance. It probably wasn’t implementable in it’s entirety anyway; but the UK will go no further in bending to the EU’s will.
Time for an FTA and divergence.
You do know what the A stands for in FTA don't you?
Clearly we just need an FTD then everything will be fine.
A Frothing-Transmitted Disease. Like Brexitis, for example.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.
But, there are also parts of the country where their support has never been greater, in the post-war period.
That's how it starts, but the toxin spreads.
The *overwhelmingly* negative reaction of Middle Tory England to May's tawdry compromise could be the beginning of rural and suburban England turning against the Tories.
Our Middle England constituency was slightly Remain in the referendum (54-46) but, even then, I have been surprised how vehemently local people have reacted to our Tory MP coming out as a Hard Brexiteer in the last week. You could well be right.
Cameron is proving quite a sage. Not only was he correct about too many tweets, he was right about banging on about Europe being a vote loser.
Where he was hardly clever was in leading the Remain campaign - as time as gone on I've heard of more and more Left and anti-establishment voters who voted Leave to give him and the government a kicking.
The very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Not for us Labour Leavers. Getting rid of Cameron and Osborne was the cherry on top of the Brexit cake.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.
Only unbelievable if you think the purpose of Chequers was to resolve Britain’s relationship with the EU for benefit of all parties, rather than part of the ongoing process of Tory party management and blame allocation.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.
No, he resigned because he was intelligent enough to understand the mess that he had helped create, and he knew that Brexit had been sold on a false prospectus, so he did what any lazy shyster does and ran away into the sunset to write his memoirs.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.
No, he resigned because he was intelligent enough to understand the mess that he had helped create, and he knew that Brexit had been sold on a false prospectus, so he did what any lazy shyster does and ran away into the sunset to write his memoirs.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
But did Olly really not test the water first with Brussels (Berlin!) before he put Chequers together? Seems unbelievable.
Shortly before the Chequers meeting, Merkel was publicly arguing that separating goods and services is old-fashioned.
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
On what point has the EU conceded anything?
It was more his tone than anything else. In the past he has been completely dismissive.
Comments
"Honda faces the real cost of Brexit in a former Spitfire plant"
PB = Pathological Brexit
CAN YOU PEOPLE NOT TELL WHEN SOMEBODY IS OBVIOUSLY JOKING?
As amusing as it would be to just tag all leavers with GPS bracelets, I'm not sure it's particularly practical.
May's objection is to Barnier's interpretation that the backstop can not be extended to the whole of the UK. That's an evolution from the agreed backstop and it is unconcsionable for a UK PM to effectively sign off a customs border in the Irish sea.
https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/our-backstop-cannot-be-extended-to-the-whole-uk-michel-barnier_en
If Barnier winds his neck in and the backstop is as originally agreed (With all NI/Rest of UK matters being outwith the EU) then May will be happy enough with it.
On the topic of Honda's supplies, if the delivery times move from 2 days to 9 days, surely they don't need to store 9 days' worth of components, they just need to order 7 days earlier.
I appreciate that might be sub-optimal for a car manufacturer and I suspect they would stop future investment in the UK but building 42 football pitches of warehouse seems unlikely.
I am (generally) a polite person. I only lose it occasionally
The EU will not agree to anything else until the NI matter is settled, and that's part of a timetable May agreed to in March 2017.
Like its predecessor after watching it I needed a cigarette.
There’s also a Marvel style post credits scene.
So stop all this Brexit talk and go watch Mamma Mia 2 immediately.
Verified account @GoodwinMJ
2h2 hours ago
"Central and East Europe turned against liberalism not so much because it was failing at home as because in their view it was failing in the West"
Typically insightful essay from Ivan Krastev & Stephen Holmes on Europe's growing East-West divide
https://bit.ly/2uBhpoH"
Related, did anyone see Mark Kermode's Secrets of Cinema on the Beeb last week - episode 1 RomComs - it was a tour de force!
Time for an FTA and divergence.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!
As expected, but it's nice to have it in writing.
The UK has two options, crashing out or continuity remain.
This will have further signified that any agreement from May isn't worth the bogroll it's scrawled on.
Please don't mention the rain... 18 days since we had any in the North Dorset Desert, only 2.0mm since 31st may and none forecast on for the week ahead*. Lots of well-established trees looking unhappy now.
(*Actually there's a 70% chance of rain at 1:00am tonight according to the met office but they've done that before and none appeared - convinced they do it to make sure the rain symbols still work on their website.)
We could do with a lot more rain too. Think everyone could do with a lot more.
Vettel was not onboard with the program in FP1...
Edit. Annoyingly there’s no F2 or F3 races this weekend, so there won’t be any advance TV converage that might help with identifying value bets.
Edit2. Ricciardo will start at the back for a new engine and various other bits. None of the rest of the top 6 have any penalties so far.
"Really? That is the most constructive I have ever heard him."
Barnier was waffling a lot, but basically the answer is non - as expected. They cannot dilute their absolute freedom of movement without having the whole edifice topple. or so they believe. As an add-on, he doesn't trust the UK to collect EU tariffs anyway.
On what point has the EU conceded anything?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44904183
Mr. Sandpit, aye, potential for rain to affect the race too. Red Bull, Alonso and maybe Sainz/Hulkenberg might benefit (Hulkenberg can be very good in the wet but he's not as good at tight and twisty tracks as fast flowing ones).
Mr. Pulpstar, provides impetus for a drive for a second referendum, as well as the blame game.
Well the firm I work for.
I’m officially more competent than HMG.
This is what happens when you have an yuge trade deficit with a group that likes selling stuff.
This seems a more balanced view.
Brexit Falls are only 9 months away, toot toot
Look at it like a boxing match where afterwards the combatants usually shake hands if not hug.
That said XXXXXXX XXXXXXX is a twat.
"That there should be a transition period."
I'm not sure that's a concession. It suits them to take as long as possible. They'd rather like us to get so pissed off that enough people will say … "Oh ffs, why are we bothering."
We'd then return and offer them more money without retaining any influence.
Barnier cannot give any concessions, and won't try unless we really really want to leave, and only then at the last moment, if at all.
In a way, I'm glad that's settled. It would have been nice to see a few concessions on FOM, but I understand their fears. In fact, if Dave had returned with something on that, Remain would have won the referendum.
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1020293870100385792?s=21
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
"Fourteen people have been wounded, some seriously, in a knife attack on a bus in the German city of Luebeck, local reports said.
Police in the city, in the northern state of Schleswig-Holstein, said a major police operation was under way."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44904183
https://twitter.com/britainelects
https://twitter.com/RagnarWeilandt/status/1006789511215542272
It is inducing severe cognitive dissonance....
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.