IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
The Chequers paper was prepared by the Group in Downing St under the civil servant Olly Robbins.
The DEXEU version under DD was not used. DEXEU and DD were sidelined.
Which is why DD resigned. As would any of us, if our boss had undermined our department in that way.
No, he resigned because he was intelligent enough to understand the mess that he had helped create, and he knew that Brexit had been sold on a false prospectus, so he did what any lazy shyster does and ran away into the sunset to write his memoirs.
In your opinion?
Correct. I cannot pretend to be party to his thoughts, and there is a small possibility that it was nothing to do with his reputation for laziness, or his renowned flakiness and reputation for poor judgment (e.g. the unnecessary by-election). It is indeed very likely that his resignation had much more integrity to it than, say, Boris Johnson's.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Just finished watching the fourth series of The Bridge. Shan't spoil it, but, once again, it's rather good.
Also, it's raining. Huzzah!
Hear hear on both points! Sophie Helm is SO good.
Meanwhile, for those speculating on Anna Soubry's reselection potential, there's a long piece on the move by her constituency chair to consult members, subsequently withdrawn after a sulphurous letter from AS, if you scroll down here:
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
As @Benpointer pointed out upthread, insulting people is a fairly harmless element of the whole shebang. You will get that on internet chatrooms; it's part of the vernacular.
Look at it like a boxing match where afterwards the combatants usually shake hands if not hug.
That said XXXXXXX XXXXXXX is a twat.
What I have liked about this place for probably 10 years - and I appreciate I tend to take more as a lurker than I give - is exactly that spirit.. essentially that you're/we're all PBers together, whatever our views.
It's certainly in stark contrast to Facebook (Groups - not most individuals' own comment threads), where I literally can't bear to read through the vindictive bile that's spouted on Brexit and any other divisive issue.
It used to be the case that 'real names' forums were a reasonable guarantee of more polite discourse. But the contrast between here and Facebook - I guess because the latter is now so universal - shows any such shame has long disappeared.
Also contrast my use of this site with Guido, where I find most thread headers of interest (even if I don't agree with all of them), but have never found a comment of any use beyond driving up my blood pressure. Here, thread headers are at least as informative, but the discussion is usually genuinely enlightening and thought-provoking.
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
As @Benpointer pointed out upthread, insulting people is a fairly harmless element of the whole shebang. You will get that on internet chatrooms; it's part of the vernacular.
Look at it like a boxing match where afterwards the combatants usually shake hands if not hug.
That said XXXXXXX XXXXXXX is a twat.
What I have liked about this place for probably 10 years - and I appreciate I tend to take more as a lurker than I give - is exactly that spirit.. essentially that you're/we're all PBers together, whatever our views.
It's certainly in stark contrast to Facebook (Groups - not most individuals' own comment threads), where I literally can't bear to read through the vindictive bile that's spouted on Brexit and any other divisive issue.
It used to be the case that 'real names' forums were a reasonable guarantee of more polite discourse. But the contrast between here and Facebook - I guess because the latter is now so universal - shows any such shame has long disappeared.
Also contrast my use of this site with Guido, where I find most thread headers of interest (even if I don't agree with all of them), but have never found a comment of any use beyond driving up my blood pressure. Here, thread headers are at least as informative, but the discussion is usually genuinely enlightening and thought-provoking.
In short, well done PB
The VoteUK discussion forum is another place with the same type of spirit, if you're interested in detailed psephological discussion.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Strategically and tactically had one great aim but all the Japanese actions led to the opposite outcome.
Brexiteers promising a great free trade only to see us fall out with no deal or WTO Brexit was just like the Japanese plans to keep the Americans out of the Pacific war by bombing the American fleet at Pearl Harbour.
I fully expect some Leavers to go all Hirohito and say the Brexit situation has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
‘There are no enemy tanks in Dorset’
But more seriously, my business is one of those rare beasts which exports products almost always sourced in the UK. I’m doing my bit for the balance of payments deficit.
Look around you. I travel all over the country; more restaurants, more high end shops, fewer old cars. We’re doing well as a nation.
I suspect tax takes this year will be the best for a long time.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think some people confuse that because Brexit is going badly, that means there are no negatives in being hysterically hyperbolic about it. Being so won't magically make things better than some fear, but I do think it softens people up to some pretty bad outcomes, since nothing can live up to it
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Give it time. A no deal Brexit that leads to food and medicine shortages could do that.
I know one Leaver who is convinced that leads to government falling and Corbyn becoming PM.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Strategically and tactically had one great aim but all the Japanese actions led to the opposite outcome.
Brexiteers promising a great free trade only to see us fall out with no deal or WTO Brexit was just like the Japanese plans to keep the Americans out of the Pacific war by bombing the American fleet at Pearl Harbour.
I fully expect some Leavers to go all Hirohito and say the Brexit situation has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.
And I fully expect a lot of the more sane remainers to realise that the world has not ended after all. But not yet.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Some PB Remainers are becoming unspoofable.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Give it time. A no deal Brexit that leads to food and medicine shortages could do that.
I know one Leaver who is convinced that leads to government falling and Corbyn becoming PM.
Corbyn is going to bring about food and medicine shortages?
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Strategically and tactically had one great aim but all the Japanese actions led to the opposite outcome.
Brexiteers promising a great free trade only to see us fall out with no deal or WTO Brexit was just like the Japanese plans to keep the Americans out of the Pacific war by bombing the American fleet at Pearl Harbour.
I fully expect some Leavers to go all Hirohito and say the Brexit situation has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.
And I fully expect a lot of the more sane remainers to realise that the world has not ended after all. But not yet.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Give it time. A no deal Brexit that leads to food and medicine shortages could do that.
I know one Leaver who is convinced that leads to government falling and Corbyn becoming PM.
Corbyn is going to bring about food and medicine shortages?
It’s hard to find an analogy for Brexit because acts of democratic self-sabotage are so hard to find.
My preferred analogy is Suez. In itself, Suez was not an unreasonable intiative: rabble rouser seizes vital British interest and must be repelled.
But, because it was geopolitically blind, and wrapped in deceit, Suez ended up humiliating the U.K., ending any pretense to global power status, damaging our economy and international good standing, ending Eden’s premiership, and tarnishing the Tory brand for a generation.
Suez became a by-word for national disaster. Brexit is in the same category though necessarily less “acute” in its impact.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
The term used was "national self-harm." There was no misquoting.
However, let's assume the IMF is correct, and that a No Deal Brexit results in GDP being 4% less than would otherwise be the case by 2030. That's not trivial, but it doesn't justify hyperbole either.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
The term used was "national self-harm." There was no misquoting.
However, let's assume the IMF is correct, and that a No Deal Brexit results in GDP being 4% less than would otherwise be the case by 2030. That's not trivial, but it doesn't justify hyperbole either.
At least we have moved on from the preposterous claim that Brexit has some kind of economic dividend.
Polling shows that most Brexiters still haven’t realised that the economic claims for Brexit were a pack of lies.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
I have never seen anything like Brexit in my life. It's part hecatomb and part psychotic episode.
And somehow we have ended up in this shit with a PM who is very badly suited to the task of shovelling us out of if.
Let me guess, you didn’t vote for it and are un-used to losing?
Outside of planet hyperbole, things are going rather well.
"Things are going quite well"? I wondered when the brexit fanatics would employ Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf. You are he and I claim my £5 !
Low unemployment, deficit coming down, free movement immigration reducing, wages rising faster than inflation. Other PBers report the house price bubble coming to a rather soft landing, and more M&A activity than for a long time.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
That would be significantly better than hard brexit. Though it is good that you do realise we haven't left yet. Congratulations on your company, I guess the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of the average Leaver is still live and well then?
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
Not words I would choose, nor could it be considered helpful, but invective and exaggerated language is a part of political speech (indeed, one cannot always separate such from otherwise serious and worthy criticism, though it would be nice), and colourful, non rational speech is something he may well indulge in more than some, but is far from alone in nor is it restricted to a single side in this or any other debate.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Some PB Remainers are becoming unspoofable.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
I think Leavers said Project Fear was Project Fear, no?
As fellow Jim Gilmore aficionado @John_M has highlighted, WTO Brexit sees us growing as an economy.
No deal is nowhere near the hyperbole that the Uber Remainers were spouting in 2016, let alone the bizarre war comparisons made on this thread.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
When I see that "had enough of experts" lie repeated I always read it as code for "I am either stupid or dishonest, or both. Please ignore my posts."
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Some PB Remainers are becoming unspoofable.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
I think Leavers said Project Fear was Project Fear, no?
As fellow Jim Gilmore aficionado @John_M has highlighted, WTO Brexit sees us growing as an economy.
No deal is nowhere near the hyperbole that the Uber Remainers were spouting in 2016, let alone the bizarre war comparisons made on this thread.
From the guy that compared Brexit to Operation Dynamo.
IF Barnier has rejected Chequers what was DD playing at all this time? Surely the whole point was to cajole the EU into into taking a position and then advance proposals that would fit with that position. Are we saying that it's all been a waste of time?
It is rather hard to escape that conclusion. The waste of time depends on if the EU, knowing it has the stronger hand, has really gone for an all or nothing gamble on us capitulating on everything, even though politically and parliamentarily that may not be possible.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
So far with the deficit beating projections constantly, full employment etc it is easy and sunlit uplands. The hyperbole of Brexit disaster is about as real as an episode of Star Trek.
I forgot to say, to all those Leavers out there, when I referred to Santa Claus, I did of course, mean Father Christmas. I think the tradition may have come from Germany, and the chap himself was from Asia minor (Turkey), but he only migrates here briefly for one night a year, he doesn't bring his family and friends, and is unlikely to use OUR NHS, unless he slips on a chimney pot. I am sure the Christmas after next he might bring you a good brexit with all sorts of trade deals and you will all live happily ever after, dreaming of a non-politically correct white Christmas
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Brexit is a lot like Pearl Harbour.
Minus the millions of casualties in the Pacific War, of course.
Some PB Remainers are becoming unspoofable.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
I think Leavers said Project Fear was Project Fear, no?
As fellow Jim Gilmore aficionado @John_M has highlighted, WTO Brexit sees us growing as an economy.
No deal is nowhere near the hyperbole that the Uber Remainers were spouting in 2016, let alone the bizarre war comparisons made on this thread.
From the guy that compared Brexit to Operation Dynamo.
Unspoofable.
Nope, the guy who said that Remainers had no hope of preventing Brexit.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
So far with the deficit beating projections constantly, full employment etc it is easy and sunlit uplands. The hyperbole of Brexit disaster is about as real as an episode of Star Trek.
Do keep up, it has been said lots. We are still in the EU, we haven't left yet.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
I expected it to be difficult and to a degree chaotic. I certainly underestimated just how poorly even a weaker hand would be played however, and thus how poorly preparation would go - even up to the end of 2017, a degree of optimism was not unreasonable, but even now, July 20th 2018, the governing party are still riven on the issue, I truly never expected that, I really thought even in a chaotic period they could sort their sh*t out given 2 years to do so. How very wrong I was.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.
Didn't Cameron try to stop him being selected as an MP. Sounds personal more than anything.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite?.
The former. I don't care how polite he is, you don't become the voice and face of a significant political faction by accident. Or at least, you can become it accidentally (in the same manner that Corbyn was put up as a candidate for leader as it was his turn for the harder left), but you only stay there through desire and effort.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
This sunlit uplands meme is another in the long line of failed lines:
‘It was only advisory’ ‘Parliament has to trigger Article 50’ ‘Brexit voters didn’t know what they were voting for’ ‘Leave was backed by our enemies’ ‘James Chapman’s Twitter feed will prevent Brexit’
Some people wrote threads on this very site suggesting that Brexit voters might not be motivated by economics.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
When I see that "had enough of experts" lie repeated I always read it as code for "I am either stupid or dishonest, or both. Please ignore my posts."
When I see someone mention the ""had enough of experts" lie" I always read it as code for "I have either landed from another planet or I really don't understand this whole politics thing whereby politicians are or should be perfectly aware of the elements of their speech that will be picked up on by the media and commentators and therefore I should go back to playing fortnite all day where I am not out of my depth."
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
The fact that the EU will not countenance a deal so far has nothing to do with it then?
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
I was thinking more of whether as a suggestion it might have found acceptance, after a period of argument, among the British electorate. Whether the EU would or would not countenance any option is a separate matter of course.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Oh, I agree it's not feasible *now*. But it's a wry counterfactual to ponder.
Now the UK has two options: a humiliating and humbling remain or a humiliating and chaotic cliff edge.
What a truly bizarre thread. Brexit is the worst thing since the Spanish Civil war. No, no only 1m died from that, it’s the worst decision since Pearl Harbour. Or since Britain was foolish enough to honour its treaty with Belgium in 1914.
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
I think you are deliberately mis-quoting. The poster referred to economic self-harm. Obviously civil war is massively worse. I know that your lot have had enough of experts, but with a few eccentric exceptions the overwhelming majority of economists believe this is an act of severe self harm. There is always the possibility that the small minority might be right, in the same way that climate change deniers might be, but the balance of probability points to the likelihood that there is no such thing as Santa Claus, and there is no such thing as a good Brexit
When I see that "had enough of experts" lie repeated I always read it as code for "I am either stupid or dishonest, or both. Please ignore my posts."
Oh dear, when zealots try to rewrite history. Not a lie. he did say it, and he has recently said he regretted it: "I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying - from organisations with acronyms - saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong, because these people - these people - are the same ones who got consistently wrong." Although it was largely off-the-cuff BS he most definitely said it.
I am very happy for you to ignore my posts. I will leave it to others to judge the stupidity or lack of it in my posts and perhaps to compare and contrast with your ineloquent and juvenile attempt at an insult. There are some people that supported Leave that are articulate, though you are clearly not of that ilk.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
The fact that the EU will not countenance a deal so far has nothing to do with it then?
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.
He never promoted Zac Goldsmith, Jesse Norman, nor Richard Drax, all Old Etonians.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway for Great Britain.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.
It's not just the DUP that object to a hard border inside the UK!
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
The fact that the EU will not countenance a deal so far has nothing to do with it then?
The Tories promised the easiest free trade deal in history. For good measure they also told us that if we voted to leave we held all the cards and the PM would be going straight to Berlin to agree a favourable deal which the German car industry would insist upon.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway for Great Britain.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.
Hard border in Irish sea. Not possible due to May needing supply & confidence from the DUP in the House at the moment.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
The word in the lobbies was that JRM wanted to Speaker, and now his Brexit rent-a-quote act (since Farage seems to have stopped answering journalists' phone calls) has put the kybosh on that or any other ambition he might have had.
If that was the choice he made he needs to stop pouting over it - no one forced him to prioritise being the public face and voice of no deal brexiteers over any ambition to be seen as a respected, albeit eccentric constitutionally minded fellow.
Is it a choice he made or a role he stumbled into simply by being polite? If he were as bright as he makes out, he might at least have made junior minister for paperclips under David Cameron who promoted almost every other Old Etonian in the House.
He never promoted Zac Goldsmith, Jesse Norman, nor Richard Drax, all Old Etonians.
Tut tut.
Surely everyone knows that Richard was at Harrow?
Edit: Darn, I sailed past 10k posts without even noticing.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
So far with the deficit beating projections constantly, full employment etc it is easy and sunlit uplands. The hyperbole of Brexit disaster is about as real as an episode of Star Trek.
I neither expected sunlit uplands nor disaster. So far, that seems about right.
Rees-Mogg sounds like he's panicking a bit - lashing out. I wonder if he never intended to be the Ultras' de facto leader, and it's now starting to dawn that a calamitous hard Brexit will be blamed on him.
"The EU Brexit negotiator said the White Paper opened "the way to a constructive discussion" but must be "workable". He questioned whether plans for a common rulebook for goods and agri-foods were practical."
Asking for the Tories plans to be 'workable' isn't proof that we are right to be leaving.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway for Great Britain.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.
Hard border in Irish sea. Not possible due to May needing supply & confidence from the DUP in the House at the moment.
And because it is a terrible option. I really don't think the DUP element is definitive there, even people like Grieve say it is a terrible option apparently.
I wonder how different things would be if May had just said WE ARE DOING NORWAY, BISH BASH BOSH JOB DONE.
Ah, the road not travelled. An interesting idea though. The way things have gone now it would not be a popular option, everyone is playing for much higher stakes, no deal or remain or unreaslitic fudge which people can barely even pretend is viable, but if from the start? Maybe.
Norway has a 'hard' customs border with Sweden does it not ? So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Norway for Great Britain.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.
Silly me - I forgot our DUP overlords.
It's not just the DUP that object to a hard border inside the UK!
Yes, but it is them that make it a very red line indeed and not the shade of light pink like most of May's others when push and shove come along I think. Unfortunately for May Barnier has doubled down on the 'No extension of the backstop to the whole of the UK' thing - which means she's in an impossible position right now.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
I expected it to be difficult and to a degree chaotic. I certainly underestimated just how poorly even a weaker hand would be played however, and thus how poorly preparation would go - even up to the end of 2017, a degree of optimism was not unreasonable, but even now, July 20th 2018, the governing party are still riven on the issue, I truly never expected that, I really thought even in a chaotic period they could sort their sh*t out given 2 years to do so. How very wrong I was.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
I actually started the campaign as a sceptic, if perhaps undecided about Leaving. Like many, I was disappointed by Cameron’s negotiations. I also retain a long term mistrust of EU governance and FOM arrangements.
It’s just that as I looked in more detail into the case for Brexit I realised that the status quo was infinitely better than any Brexit possibly on offer, and that many of my unchallenged Euro-scepticisms were utterly baseless.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
The fact that the EU will not countenance a deal so far has nothing to do with it then?
The Tories promised the easiest free trade deal in history. For good measure they also told us that if we voted to leave we held all the cards and the PM would be going straight to Berlin to agree a favourable deal which the German car industry would insist upon.
You are right, and as a Tory, I find it all very embarrassing. The people that have done all this are a disgrace to their party and country. If Labour didn't have Marxists in their leadership they would have a 20 point lead
Things are coming to a head on Brexit now, where the contradictions behind the Leave vote can no longer be hidden. Not sure what how it will exactly play out over the next six months, but it will be a very humiliating experience for the UK and Leave voters in particular.
Things are coming to a head on Brexit now, where the contradictions behind the Leave vote can no longer be hidden. Not sure what how it will exactly play out over the next six months, but it will be a very humiliating experience for the UK and Leave voters in particular.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.
It's ironic that a lot of that sentiment began when the ERM crisis proved that the issue of Europe, however tangentially, had the capacity to inflict humiliation on the Conservatives. 25 years later nursing that resentment has landed them with Suez on steroids.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Brexit should have been achievable. It really should. Not so easily as some made out, and certainly not without cost or bumps in the road. That your sorry gang have turned it into such a shitefest and just plain bungled it is a national shame. Whatever pathetic reckoning your mob metes out to it's own won't be half as bad as the scorn the voters will tip on you!
The Tories proposed the question. The Tories heard the answer. The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories) The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
The fact that the EU will not countenance a deal so far has nothing to do with it then?
The Tories promised the easiest free trade deal in history. For good measure they also told us that if we voted to leave we held all the cards and the PM would be going straight to Berlin to agree a favourable deal which the German car industry would insist upon.
The Tory Government? I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that the Tory Prime Minister at the time campaigned for remain. Maybe I dreamt it. Perhaps if the Remain campaign was a bit better then it would have won.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
All overseen and organised by the party that you support and campaign for. How shit is that?
Indeed.
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
So far with the deficit beating projections constantly, full employment etc it is easy and sunlit uplands. The hyperbole of Brexit disaster is about as real as an episode of Star Trek.
I neither expected sunlit uplands nor disaster. So far, that seems about right.
Indeed. To be perfectly frank I don't expect a dramatic change either way and could contentedly live with either option. Either way life will go on.
What is unspoofable is the Leavers that said No Deal was Project Fear and now criticise the government for not planning for No Deal.
No deal isn't going to happen It isn't going to happen It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ... I wasn't there Some big boys did it and ran away ... It's a price worth paying.
You forgot ‘The will of the people’
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
The EFTA crew (@rcs1000 of this parish and others) are as to blame as anyone else.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
I expected it to be difficult and to a degree chaotic. I certainly underestimated just how poorly even a weaker hand would be played however, and thus how poorly preparation would go - even up to the end of 2017, a degree of optimism was not unreasonable, but even now, July 20th 2018, the governing party are still riven on the issue, I truly never expected that, I really thought even in a chaotic period they could sort their sh*t out given 2 years to do so. How very wrong I was.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
I actually started the campaign as a sceptic, if perhaps undecided about Leaving. Like many, I was disappointed by Cameron’s negotiations. I also retain a long term mistrust of EU governance and FOM arrangements.
It’s just that as I looked in more detail into the case for Brexit I realised that the status quo was infinitely better than any Brexit possibly on offer, and that many of my unchallenged Euro-scepticisms were utterly baseless.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.
Good post. Very close to my own view. Scepticism can be healthy. Prejudice, zealotry and even hatred is a completely different level
Things are coming to a head on Brexit now, where the contradictions behind the Leave vote can no longer be hidden. Not sure what how it will exactly play out over the next six months, but it will be a very humiliating experience for the UK and Leave voters in particular.
Pardon me for being a humiliationsceptic but we've been told that for years now.
Things are coming to a head on Brexit now, where the contradictions behind the Leave vote can no longer be hidden. Not sure what how it will exactly play out over the next six months, but it will be a very humiliating experience for the UK and Leave voters in particular.
How convenient for committed Remainers, eh?
That's a libel because Brexit has nothing to do with me, mate.
Comments
And then, to top it all @Dura_Ace claims it is part hetacomb and part psychotic episode.
I mean listen to yourselves. You really think it is Leavers that are delusional? Get a grip and sense of perspective, ffs. Or at the very least start offering some bets about the calamitous outcomes that we can cash in on.
Let’s start with an easy one. Is anyone willing to bet that the IMF will not be within 0.2% of our growth outcome in 2018 (more than half way through, such generosity) before we start thinking about what they are forecasting for 2030.
Meanwhile, for those speculating on Anna Soubry's reselection potential, there's a long piece on the move by her constituency chair to consult members, subsequently withdrawn after a sulphurous letter from AS, if you scroll down here:
https://beestonia.wordpress.com/2018/07/20/cllr-owen-resign-now-redwood-crescent-residents-ignored-reprieve-to-keep-the-town-hall-in-the-community-cllr-doddy-tries-to-oust-soubry/
Beestonia is written by an anti-Tory independent, though a well-informed one, as will be apparent.
Alas they wouldn’t let me call it Order 66.
Oh, and my company just had our best year ever.
Maybe we should carry on negotiating Brexit for another decade?
It's certainly in stark contrast to Facebook (Groups - not most individuals' own comment threads), where I literally can't bear to read through the vindictive bile that's spouted on Brexit and any other divisive issue.
It used to be the case that 'real names' forums were a reasonable guarantee of more polite discourse. But the contrast between here and Facebook - I guess because the latter is now so universal - shows any such shame has long disappeared.
Also contrast my use of this site with Guido, where I find most thread headers of interest (even if I don't agree with all of them), but have never found a comment of any use beyond driving up my blood pressure. Here, thread headers are at least as informative, but the discussion is usually genuinely enlightening and thought-provoking.
In short, well done PB
PS. When will you start some more of those comical quotes you came up with during the gulf war?
Strategically and tactically had one great aim but all the Japanese actions led to the opposite outcome.
Brexiteers promising a great free trade only to see us fall out with no deal or WTO Brexit was just like the Japanese plans to keep the Americans out of the Pacific war by bombing the American fleet at Pearl Harbour.
I fully expect some Leavers to go all Hirohito and say the Brexit situation has developed not necessarily to the UK’s advantage.
But more seriously, my business is one of those rare beasts which exports products almost always sourced in the UK. I’m doing my bit for the balance of payments deficit.
Look around you. I travel all over the country; more restaurants, more high end shops, fewer old cars. We’re doing well as a nation.
I suspect tax takes this year will be the best for a long time.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1020316994602758145
I know one Leaver who is convinced that leads to government falling and Corbyn becoming PM.
My preferred analogy is Suez.
In itself, Suez was not an unreasonable intiative: rabble rouser seizes vital British interest and must be repelled.
But, because it was geopolitically blind, and wrapped in deceit, Suez ended up humiliating the U.K., ending any pretense to global power status, damaging our economy and international good standing, ending Eden’s premiership, and tarnishing the Tory brand for a generation.
Suez became a by-word for national disaster. Brexit is in the same category though necessarily less “acute” in its impact.
However, let's assume the IMF is correct, and that a No Deal Brexit results in GDP being 4% less than would otherwise be the case by 2030. That's not trivial, but it doesn't justify hyperbole either.
Polling shows that most Brexiters still haven’t realised that the economic claims for Brexit were a pack of lies.
It isn't going to happen
It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
...
I wasn't there
Some big boys did it and ran away
...
It's a price worth paying.
http://www.tankmuseum.org/home
Ironically no deal would be a slap in the face to the voters who were promised that a Brexit UK would be part of a free trading alliance that spanned Western Europe and then some.
They assumed Brexit would be executed reasonably, and failed to calculate that Brexit represented something inherently chaotic.
Oh, and if you're really lucky you might also see a Brocken Spectre and an Adder on the same day,
So it really isn't that noteworthy.
As fellow Jim Gilmore aficionado @John_M has highlighted, WTO Brexit sees us growing as an economy.
No deal is nowhere near the hyperbole that the Uber Remainers were spouting in 2016, let alone the bizarre war comparisons made on this thread.
https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1020275808944914439
Sadly there’s going to be a reckoning for that and those in the party that peddled Brexit would be easy and nowt but sunlit uplands.
Unspoofable.
Utterly damning of the Brexit prospectus, and of fellow Brexiters, written by a Brexiter.
Were it not for having put my view on record on PB, I've no doubt I would have wavered and gone remain in the voting booth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRW3N7GmsBA
The Tories heard the answer.
The Tories have been in power to try and implement the result.
If this goes wrong (It's either complete capitulation to the EU's demands or a hard brexit now, so there are nog ood routes for the Tories)
The Tories will be blamed, and rightly so.
‘It was only advisory’
‘Parliament has to trigger Article 50’
‘Brexit voters didn’t know what they were voting for’
‘Leave was backed by our enemies’
‘James Chapman’s Twitter feed will prevent Brexit’
Some people wrote threads on this very site suggesting that Brexit voters might not be motivated by economics.
So the EU won't countenance it due to the NI/Eire issue.
Now the UK has two options: a humiliating and humbling remain or a humiliating and chaotic cliff edge.
How does the constitutional machinery respond to being given an instruction that it is contradictory and literally impossible?
The answer? A weapons-grade clusterfuck the like of which I've never seen before.
I am very happy for you to ignore my posts. I will leave it to others to judge the stupidity or lack of it in my posts and perhaps to compare and contrast with your ineloquent and juvenile attempt at an insult. There are some people that supported Leave that are articulate, though you are clearly not of that ilk.
Norway plus CU for NI.
Bish bash bosh job still done.
Let's stop pretending that anyone actually cares about NI except as a rhetorical device and political football, and everything becomes much easier.
Surely everyone knows that Richard was at Harrow?
Edit: Darn, I sailed past 10k posts without even noticing.
Tony Wilson: "When you make your music, do you think about the man in the street?"
Sid Vicious: "Nah. I've met the man in the street and he's a c-nt."
He questioned whether plans for a common rulebook for goods and agri-foods were practical."
Asking for the Tories plans to be 'workable' isn't proof that we are right to be leaving.
It’s just that as I looked in more detail into the case for Brexit I realised that the status quo was infinitely better than any Brexit possibly on offer, and that many of my unchallenged Euro-scepticisms were utterly baseless.
As many have said, Brexit wasn’t built in a day, it was the result of 25 years of anti-EU propaganda circulated largely by the right-leaning press.