politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PaddyPower clearly doesn’t understand the CON leadership rules
Comments
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Perhaps she didn't have serious rivals because she was more than "very good"?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, aye. Federer's record is an order of magnitude more impressive than Serena Williams'. She's very good, but who's her rival? She has a crushingly strong record against Sharapova. Henin and Clijsters retired fairly early, I think, into Williams' career.
Federer's been there with Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. Before them Roddick (no mean player) was perhaps his greatest challenger.0 -
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.
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Have to say Gin, you've called all of her big mistakes correctly. I remember when it was me, you and SeanT telling the rest of PB that her dementia tax was a disaster for our election chances. I did think the petty nature of the taxi stuff would come back and bite her in the bum as well, but not this badly.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.0 -
And on topic May has got to go.
We need someone who doesn't play poker with all their cards face up.0 -
It's a serious time when both the British and German governments could conceivably collapse at any time. We probably haven't had that combination since 1945.0
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If he hadn't resigned in a fit of pique, he might have been up there in The Commons asking the questions.
https://twitter.com/timoncheese/status/10163336548329431050 -
There is no better blood sport than Tories tearing themselves apart ! Where is SeanT ?0
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Fantastic performance from Mr Corbyn today in the HoC.He is ready to serve.0
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David Miliband would have been a poor choice for Labour leader. He would have endeavoured to help May with her broken promises to Brexit voters whereas Corbyn is happy allowing her to swing in the wind.0
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Yeah, because their disloyalty only started on Friday ...david_herdson said:
It works both ways. May should have treated them with more respect - see Chequers for example: phones confiscated, taxis for resignees, papers shared with Berlin before the cabinet etc.JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
The hardcore have been plotting and scheming against her since she became PM.0 -
Forgive me if I am scepticalSean_F said:
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.0 -
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I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.0 -
The quality of food here in the US is far, far below that in the UK.Xenon said:
Geez are people still going on about US chicken?Foxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
We're continually told how great free trade in the EU is, but for some reason the same with the US is a terrible idea because of their (completely safe to eat) chicken.0 -
If Chuka Umunna was Labour leader now he would almost certainly win the next general election, luckily for the Tories Corbyn is Labour leader, who turns off both centrists and many Remainers so if the Tories rally their hard Brexit base they could still yet get another term in power.Roger said:
Pretty average I thought Chuka Umuna spoke immediately after the news came through and he was career destroying. Think Robin Cook. Corbyn's problem is that his history on Brexit is so mixed that all the 'killer' lines made him look like a hypocriteJonathan said:Some pretty killer lines from Jezza.
It needed Blair to finally beat the Tories last time, Kinnock the sequel was not enough, the same may be true for Corbyn the sequel0 -
Well to be fair we haven't actually got any evidence that it was a contributing factor.MaxPB said:
Have to say Gin, you've called all of her big mistakes correctly. I remember when it was me, you and SeanT telling the rest of PB that her dementia tax was a disaster for our election chances. I did think the petty nature of the taxi stuff would come back and bite her in the bum as well, but not this badly.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.0 -
Mr. Herdson, better (in relative terms) than Federer, Nadal, Djokovic?
Only a casual tennis watcher, but don't believe that for a moment.0 -
we allow lower standards in from Poland, Italy the Netherlandswhy arbitrarily pick on the yanksFoxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.0 -
6.6 is too short for Corbyn but there is a scenario where the DUP withdraw confidence from the Tories and, hence, the government loses a Commons VoNC, leading to Corbyn being invited to the Palace. Also the risk of defections, though I think that low. I'd say Corbyn's odds should be around low teens at the moment.Pulpstar said:Might be an error, but I've redded out Mayxit 2018 (For a loss of £40). Also laid Corbyn to zero for next PM - he's still 6.6 to lay in that market - surely surely May will go before the next GE now.
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That was what the Tory press was saying about his father and by implication, Ed Miliband. And who can forget the bacon sandwich reporting?ReggieCide said:
For Labour? Isn't he Jewish?oxfordsimon said:
A Miliband electable???AndyJS said:
Where's David Miliband when you need him.MarkHopkins said:Anazina said:The Conservative Party are an utter shambles – a national embarrassment. Please, someone make it stop.
If only Labour had a decent electable leader...0 -
+1rcs1000 said:
I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.0 -
That's very sensible.rcs1000 said:
I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.0 -
I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.0
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As I said in the last reply, that was hardly the start of it, was it? Though it may be the end.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
A leaver PM is going to have awful troubles within the party - and they'll deserve it, too. I'm quite looking forward to it. Major, Cameron and May all damaged or brought down by the same group of people within the party.0 -
Having seen the showtime documentary on the NYT, they don't have a clue about their own country, let alone commenting on another.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It's ondr_spyn said:Fight to win Mark ii.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/10163447085100482560 -
I think she's going to get hammered.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.JosiasJessop said:What an evening to be going to the Cambridge Shakespeare Festival and to have run out of mobile data on my phone ...
(I'm too cheap to buy some more.)0 -
Penny wise. Pounds in.Pulpstar said:
Right, time for May to go and make way for Penny.MaxPB said:****BETTING POST****
Penny Mordaunt is available with Coral at 66/1
****BETTING POST****
Single
Next Prime Minister
Penny Mordaunt
Next Prime Minister
Odds: 80/1
Total Stake
£15.00
Total Potential Returns
£1215.00
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Question - with Her Majesty's Government tearing itself apart and potentially removing the PM in the next day or two, what advise do you give the President if you are a senior White House staffer about whether to come on Thursday?0
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Yes, it's generally-accepted that US standards for chicken production have much lower minimum animal welfare (though some companies are improving) with intense overcrowding. The chlorination and high use of antibiotics are about fighting the diseases that arise from close-packing the birds. Neither chlorine nor antibiotics do you any harm in themselves, but they mask real problems.Foxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EU
British standards are better than some European countries and worse than others - generally speaking, Sweden and Netherlands come top, but certainly Britain is generally better than, say, Italy.0 -
Dr. Spyn, what else would she say?0
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Because theirs are lower still.Alanbrooke said:
we allow lower standards in from Poland, Italy the Netherlandswhy arbitrarily pick on the yanksFoxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
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= Downing Street confirming the required number of letters have gone in......CarlottaVance said:0 -
That is one advantage of being a monarchy. The royals can do all the gladhanding while the politicians keep fighting each other.RochdalePioneers said:Question - with Her Majesty's Government tearing itself apart and potentially removing the PM in the next day or two, what advise do you give the President if you are a senior White House staffer about whether to come on Thursday?
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I guess she has to fight, however, the plotters will all be sending YouTube videos of her dodging the debates, the damning articles about the dementia tax and the video of Dimblebot revealing the exit poll result at 10pm. That's all they really need to bring her down. Brexit is a side show compared to her inability to win an election and her hubris in throwing away a working majority.0
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Comedy of Errors ?JosiasJessop said:What an evening to be going to the Cambridge Shakespeare Festival and to have run out of mobile data on my phone ...
(I'm too cheap to buy some more.)0 -
Pulpstar said:
Much as I know you're a hardcore leaver and so would wish it to be so, I think you're right.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
Actually I could probably live with Theresa's deal if that was the end point - But her starting position is basically at the point where I'd say no more.
I know she'll give even more to the EU from here.0 -
That's not the reason.Xenon said:
Geez are people still going on about US chicken?Foxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
We're continually told how great free trade in the EU is, but for some reason the same with the US is a terrible idea because of their (completely safe to eat) chicken.
The price for a UK-US FTA is unfettered access to the UK for US agricultural products. Because UK meat requires significantly higher levels of animal welfare than the US, its cost of production is much, much higher. British farmers cannot both produce under current standards, and compete with US produce.
We can lower animal welfare standards to allow UK farmers to compete, or we can choose not to have an FTA with the US. What we cannot do is have a situation where we hobble our farmers and drive them out of business.0 -
So objectively where is the line drawn and why?Foxy said:
Because theirs are lower still.Alanbrooke said:
we allow lower standards in from Poland, Italy the Netherlandswhy arbitrarily pick on the yanksFoxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.0 -
And probably will not be able to rely on votes from across the floor as May has.JosiasJessop said:
As I said in the last reply, that was hardly the start of it, was it? Though it may be the end.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
A leaver PM is going to have awful troubles within the party - and they'll deserve it, too. I'm quite looking forward to it. Major, Cameron and May all damaged or brought down by the same group of people within the party.0 -
Damn. I've just lumped on the Nigel Farage tip.Sean_F said:
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.0 -
I agree.Foxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
But you seem to believe that the UK, which has consistently fought for higher standards in Europe, will suddenly lower them for the US.
(I hope they don't. And I would happily vote against any government minister who did so. But I want to be able to vote against them rather than have things decided in some unaccountable committee in a smoke-filled room in Mitteleuropa)0 -
yuprcs1000 said:
I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.
Brexit is a process not an event
in 5 years all the main players will have changed and the needs of both parties will be different
who knows maybe our leading PPE course might have produced somebody who can do sums and understands what negotiation entails
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food hygiene seems to be a problem in both the EU and the USA - so this tit-for-tat point scoring seems a bit pointless to meAlanbrooke said:
we allow lower standards in from Poland, Italy the Netherlandswhy arbitrarily pick on the yanksFoxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
In the last week,
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/more-than-200-hit-by-parasite-from-del-monte-vegetables.html?__source=twitter|main
https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/09/supermarket-frozen-veg-recalled-nine-deaths-listeria-7693886/
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Mr. B, Taming of the Shrew?0
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On a practical level, when the last letter goes in, who decides when that gets announced publicly? Is there some time limit?MarqueeMark said:
= Downing Street confirming the required number of letters have gone in......CarlottaVance said:0 -
The one resignation that would kill off May now would be Javid.....Pulpstar said:I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.
0 -
Are all your political positions predicated on personal antipathy to some bloke or other on the other side of the argument?Alanbrooke said:
yuprcs1000 said:
I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.
Brexit is a process not an event
in 5 years all the main players will have changed and the needs of both parties will be different
who knows maybe our leading PPE course might have produced somebody who can do sums and understands what negotiation entails0 -
100% agreed – even your latter point – which is faint praise indeed!CarlottaVance said:
None springs to mind. Ma Beckett may not have been inspiring but was a 'safe pair of hands' and Miliband may not have been as clever as he thought he was (India) - but none come remotely close - heck - even Fox would be an improvement.Anazina said:
Bone idle, irresponsible, self-serving.CarlottaVance said:
He can hardly complain since he wasn't at a conference the UK was hosting with him as host - 'Where's Boris'?Scott_P said:
Has there ever been a worse Foreign Secretary in the modern era?0 -
Corbyn forgot to ask a question. So open goal for May response.volcanopete said:Fantastic performance from Mr Corbyn today in the HoC.He is ready to serve.
0 -
F1: conspiracy theorists receive blow as Hamilton acknowledges he was dumb to suggest Raikkonen deliberately hit him.
"Lewis Hamilton says he was "dumb" to imply Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen might have deliberately collided with him at the start of the British Grand Prix."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/447663430 -
Former Swedish PM:
"Carl Bildt
Verified account @carlbildt
Tragic to see how the UK is lost in the post-referendum chaos. This used to be a nation providing leadership to the world. Now it can’t even provide leadership to itself."0 -
only youwilliamglenn said:
Are all your political positions predicated on personal antipathy to some bloke or other on the other side of the argument?Alanbrooke said:
yuprcs1000 said:
I think that hardcore Remainers like williamglenn and Scott_P like it because they think it will result in the fall of the government, and the end of Brexit. I think hardcore Leavers hate it, because it leaves us in close orbit around the EU.GIN1138 said:
Reaminers love Theresa's Chequers deal. Tells you exactly why Leavers (who won the referendum and with who May owe's her job to) are currently pulling the plug on her government.Foxy said:Morgan and Soubry being nice to May.
Are they still traitors?
But a lot of moderate leavers - like Casino, MaxPB, Richard_T, and myself - seem largely unbothered by it. Could it be a better deal? Yes. But we are where we are. We have done a poor negotiating job. We could have done better, specifically by not accepting sequencing, nor the Northern Ireland backstop. I also think we should have got our tone right at the start of the process.
But it's important to realise that this is not a "path to ever closer union". The EU and the Swiss have regularly changed their treaties, sometimes moving closer together, sometimes a little further apart. What is agreed now is not set in stone for ever more, it's the first step, and one that we may be in a better position to push back on in five years time, once we're reset our economy.
When we joined the EEC on 1 June 1973, we had a seven year transition period, as we slowly moved away from a tariff srtructure that encouraged trade with the Commonwealth to the CET. Exports to the Commonwealth were just 4% of GDP, compared to 15% or so for the EU today. Don't let great be the enemy of good, because a major recession is a much greater threat to Brexit than a deal where we are a little closer to the EU than you would like.
Brexit is a process not an event
in 5 years all the main players will have changed and the needs of both parties will be different
who knows maybe our leading PPE course might have produced somebody who can do sums and understands what negotiation entails0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Maaaarsh, a good point. She gets a small advantage now, but it's petty and means she won't find out, probably, in future until the deed is done. Short term advantage for long term loss. The Way of May.
Trying to create a Hostile Environment for Leavers.
0 -
I like the word 'feckless'. It's almost onomatopoeic. One of those adjectives where nothing else will do.williamglenn said:It makes you want to scream.
https://twitter.com/govhowarddean/status/1016339769905897472?s=21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlMjotV6qg0 -
Precisely. As our great and much-lamented former Chancellor wisely said, the golden rule of politics is that you have to be able to count. Where on earth are the ultras going to find 320+ votes in the Commons for a Brexit harder than that Theressa May is aiming for?Nigelb said:
And probably will not be able to rely on votes from across the floor as May has.JosiasJessop said:
As I said in the last reply, that was hardly the start of it, was it? Though it may be the end.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
A leaver PM is going to have awful troubles within the party - and they'll deserve it, too. I'm quite looking forward to it. Major, Cameron and May all damaged or brought down by the same group of people within the party.0 -
Surely, Much Ado About Nothing?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, Taming of the Shrew?
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Yes, one question that would kill her off is asking her to confirm whether or not EU citizens will get special treatment wrt to immigration. If she gives out a non-answer or confirms that they will I think Javid walks and brings the shitshow down with him.MarqueeMark said:
The one resignation that would kill off May now would be Javid.....Pulpstar said:I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.
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Chair of the 1922 Committee.Stereotomy said:
On a practical level, when the last letter goes in, who decides when that gets announced publicly? Is there some time limit?MarqueeMark said:
= Downing Street confirming the required number of letters have gone in......CarlottaVance said:0 -
What seemed obvious to me is that if you have to threaten people with humiliation to get them to agree with you... Then something is wrong. Agreement should come from consensus, not from threats of humiliation.MaxPB said:
Have to say Gin, you've called all of her big mistakes correctly. I remember when it was me, you and SeanT telling the rest of PB that her dementia tax was a disaster for our election chances. I did think the petty nature of the taxi stuff would come back and bite her in the bum as well, but not this badly.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
It also meant that although Theresa announced she had "agreement" on Friday that so called "agreement" could not be taken at face value but at least some of those present would be keeping quiet so that they didn't get forced to do the "walk of shame" down the drive.
But that of course didn't stop them going away and resigning in the days afterwards....0 -
Been in a long meeting. Got here as fast as I could to say "Bojo is go go"0
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Mr. Mark, The Tempest also fits.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Gin, Richard II had a similar strategy. It worked well, until he was overthrown.0 -
That would be apt. But no, a Midsummer Night Dream. Or, in May's case, a Midsummer's nightmare ...Nigelb said:
Comedy of Errors ?JosiasJessop said:What an evening to be going to the Cambridge Shakespeare Festival and to have run out of mobile data on my phone ...
(I'm too cheap to buy some more.)0 -
The US is finally getting the message on antibiotics. The Veterinary Feed Directive has had a major impactNickPalmer said:
Yes, it's generally-accepted that US standards for chicken production have much lower minimum animal welfare (though some companies are improving) with intense overcrowding. The chlorination and high use of antibiotics are about fighting the diseases that arise from close-packing the birds. Neither chlorine nor antibiotics do you any harm in themselves, but they mask real problems.Foxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EU
British standards are better than some European countries and worse than others - generally speaking, Sweden and Netherlands come top, but certainly Britain is generally better than, say, Italy.0 -
I think she'll win, but she needs to be sacked or backed.Pulpstar said:
I think she's going to get hammered.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Agree. From watching the exchanges - and tenor - from the Conservative side, I now believe May will win the no confidence vote with a sufficient majority to continue. But Javid quitting would be the end.MarqueeMark said:
The one resignation that would kill off May now would be Javid.....Pulpstar said:I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.
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I thought Javid has already said EU citizens will get special treatment if not automatic entry with a job.MaxPB said:
Yes, one question that would kill her off is asking her to confirm whether or not EU citizens will get special treatment wrt to immigration. If she gives out a non-answer or confirms that they will I think Javid walks and brings the shitshow down with him.MarqueeMark said:
The one resignation that would kill off May now would be Javid.....Pulpstar said:I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.
0 -
What's the minimum gap between motions of no confidence? A year?0
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"BJ has gone down"Alistair said:Been in a long meeting. Got here as fast as I could to say "Bojo is go go"
0 -
https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/1016347256340074496
Perhaps Mrs May's spokesman should have added this.0 -
Yes.Morris_Dancer said:What's the minimum gap between motions of no confidence? A year?
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based on what evidence ?Foxy said:
Because theirs are lower still.Alanbrooke said:
we allow lower standards in from Poland, Italy the Netherlandswhy arbitrarily pick on the yanksFoxy said:
No problem with UK ones being higher, the objection is allowing in lower standards US chicken.Charles said:
Although (as Nick I am sure will confirm) British animal welfare standards are higher than in the EUFoxy said:
Not so much husbandry as slaughterhouse practice. There is a lot of faecal contamination because of the rate of slaughter lines in the USA. Coordination is to kill off surface contamination, so that microbiological tests are passed. It does not deal with deeper contamination.Anazina said:
For crying out loud. It doesn't mean we should wash chicken in it. We should be moving towards less food processing, not more. Well reared free-range chicken doesn't need chlorine on it. The reason they chlorinate chicken is because it is utter shite.Philip_Thompson said:
We drink chlorine every single day.Anorak said:
NEWSFLASH: Man hospitalised after drinking four pints of shampoo. "I don't understand. I wash the kids with this every night."brendan16 said:
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?FrancisUrquhart said:I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
https://www.water.org.uk/consumers/water-and-health/faqs#chlorine
One of the good things about May's proposal is that the EU will continue to regulate our food standards.
you don't have millions of yanks dying from food poisoning any more than you do millions of Europeans . When you go to the states are you saying you don't eat ?
or should we stop eating UK food if Sweden proves to have higher standards ?0 -
There was a time when releasing false information which might affect betting was a red card offence.Sean_F said:
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.
There's nothing on any of the news / social media sites?0 -
The Ultras don't need a H of C vote.Richard_Nabavi said:
Precisely. As our great and much-lamented former Chancellor wisely said, the golden rule of politics is that you have to be able to count. Where on earth are the ultras going to find 320+ votes in the Commons for a Brexit harder than that Theressa May is aiming for?Nigelb said:
And probably will not be able to rely on votes from across the floor as May has.JosiasJessop said:
As I said in the last reply, that was hardly the start of it, was it? Though it may be the end.GIN1138 said:
Disloyalty?JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...
Theresa May was threatening her Cabinet with humiliation in order to force them to agree to her deal on Friday...
I said it wouldn't end well for her.
A leaver PM is going to have awful troubles within the party - and they'll deserve it, too. I'm quite looking forward to it. Major, Cameron and May all damaged or brought down by the same group of people within the party.
Just drop out of the EU without a deal other than WTO terms.0 -
There is nothing to fear but Sean Fear himself.david_herdson said:
There was a time when releasing false information which might affect betting was a red card offence.Sean_F said:
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.
There's nothing on any of the news / social media sites?0 -
Politics got cut through in the office for the first time thanks to the antics of Davis and Johnson. Conclusions: Brexit is a total shitshow. People are bored by it and angry at the sheer waste of it all. Surprising support for Theresa May who is seen as the captain that stays in the wheelhouse as the ship goes down. Unlike rats Johnson, Davis and Gove who actually sunk the ship before abandoning it. Gove is seen as particularly slippery.0
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is he off to Wimbledon?volcanopete said:Fantastic performance from Mr Corbyn today in the HoC.He is ready to serve.
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"feckless" - contraceptive advice in IrelandRoger said:
I like the word 'feckless'. It's almost onomatopoeic. One of those adjectives where nothing else will do.williamglenn said:It makes you want to scream.
https://twitter.com/govhowarddean/status/1016339769905897472?s=21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlMjotV6qg0 -
He's also been suspiciously quiet other than to voice his support of Davis and Boris. I think he knows he's about to get stitched up on EU citizen rights because May can't be trusted to keep her word. If Gove were smart he'd be talking to Javid right now about bringing May down with a double resignation just before the first editions. They both broadly favour the deal and could retain almost all of it as a ticket with a remainer/leaver in 10/11.JohnO said:
Agree. From watching the exchanges - and tenor - from the Conservative side, I now believe May will win the no confidence vote with a sufficient majority to continue. But Javid quitting would be the end.MarqueeMark said:
The one resignation that would kill off May now would be Javid.....Pulpstar said:I think Fox will leap ship next. Much as he's disliked by many here that is probably fatal for May.
It's what I would be thinking in Gove's place anyway, it gets him into a key role in the government, he backs the winner and he gets to shape Brexit as he wants it.0 -
If I come up with an idea that is ludicrous, it really shouldn't move the betting markets.david_herdson said:
There was a time when releasing false information which might affect betting was a red card offence.Sean_F said:
Priti Patel is the new Foreign Secretary.
There's nothing on any of the news / social media sites?0 -
If May wins a leadership challenge, then she gets year. If she loses, does the new leader also get a year, or are they in peril from day one?0
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May now standing behind the "national interest" rather than honouring the referendum.
That's her future direction. National interest, national interest, national interest .........0 -
yeah but we still beat you in the footy!AndyJS said:Former Swedish PM:
"Carl Bildt
Verified account @carlbildt
Tragic to see how the UK is lost in the post-referendum chaos. This used to be a nation providing leadership to the world. Now it can’t even provide leadership to itself."0 -
'A deal other than WTO terms' doesn't exist. This is the point I keep repeating. There's a massive confusion between leaving with literally no deal - which is unthinkable, since the economy and much else besides would just stop - and agreeing a deal whereby we have an orderly transition to WTO terms. But the latter still requires a deal with the EU.David_Evershed said:The Ultras don't need a H of C vote.
Just drop out of the EU without a deal other than WTO terms.0 -
The Conservative Party: more scheming than Julius Caeser and Macbeth combined, more blood than Titus Andronicus, more madness than King Lear, more big beasts exiting stage left than a Winter's Tale
...and as many laughs as King John.0 -
They are all an absolute disgrace and a good example only of how not to behave.david_herdson said:
It works both ways. May should have treated them with more respect - see Chequers for example: phones confiscated, taxis for resignees, papers shared with Berlin before the cabinet etc.JosiasJessop said:I hope whichever leaver becomes PM (and I reckon it will be a leaver) gets the same shitty 'loyalty' they've shown May. It's all they deserve; some of them have helped bring down three Conservative PMs over Europe.
The disloyal cannot expect loyalty.
And where does this all end up? A Corbyn government ...0
