politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is this proof that the DUP won’t be supporting the government
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Mr. Sandpit, I think that Vettel has taken some new parts (not exceeding the limit, but nudging it). Can't recall about Hamilton.
But over the course of the season I agree with you that Red Bull will suffer relative to their rivals due to reliability.
Mr. Rog, the books, I believe, have been signed off for a few years now. Because the EU decided to create their own little group to check their own books and decide they were ok.0 -
The DUP would happily swap PM May for PM Rees Mogg I agree on that, PM Mogg would also have the bonus of being anti abortion as well as pro hard BrexitJackW said:Attempting a "charm offensive" with the DUP may be likened to attempting a charm offensive with a crocodile - You might think you can tickle its tummy and wrestle with the beast but in the end you get rolled over numerous times, drowned and eaten.
Revenge for the DUP crocodile is a meal best eaten cold and when the Conservatives are near dead in the water the Ulster reptiles will consume them.0 -
Johnson would have easily held Uxbridge on the Hillingdon local election results in MayOldKingCole said:
I think the voters of Uxbridge might just do that to Johnson! Michael Gove looks safe while he’s a Tory.Charles said:
And the beauty of direct accountability is the voters can kick Gove and Johnson out at the next election if they wantTheScreamingEagles said:
It was a key part of the campaign.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, the referendum was on leaving or remaining in the EU.
NHS funding can change over time. The desire of some politicians is permanently binding our hands and giving the key to the foreign political institution the electorate just voted to leave.
The man who ran the Leave campaign has said Leave would have lost without that pledge.0 -
Austrian Chancellor sets out alternative vision of Europe involving less Europe. Reduce the size of the commission and live within means.
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article176975668/Sebastian-Kurz-Oesterreichs-Kanzler-will-EU-Kommission-verkleinern.html0 -
He’s Catholic though. That might cause a bit of a cough.HYUFD said:
The DUP would happily swap PM May for PM Rees Mogg I agree on that, PM Mogg would also have the bonus of being anti abortion as well as pro hard BrexitJackW said:Attempting a "charm offensive" with the DUP may be likened to attempting a charm offensive with a crocodile - You might think you can tickle its tummy and wrestle with the beast but in the end you get rolled over numerous times, drowned and eaten.
Revenge for the DUP crocodile is a meal best eaten cold and when the Conservatives are near dead in the water the Ulster reptiles will consume them.0 -
It'll never catch on....Alanbrooke said:Austrian Chancellor sets out alternative vision of Europe involving less Europe. Reduce the size of the commission and live within means.
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article176975668/Sebastian-Kurz-Oesterreichs-Kanzler-will-EU-Kommission-verkleinern.html0 -
ERA with immigration restrictions the only option with majority supportFoxy said:
Though there is widespread support for "Vassal State Brexit" considerably in excess of WTO Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, what's the point of devolution if Westminster can impose changes in a devolved matter that have neither approval of the people of the devolved area nor the devolved political body?
Mr. Eagles, the notion the public will think "Yes, we voted to leave the EU. I'm glad our politicians have decided we can't make our own trade policy and we should hand that over to a foreign political body that will dictate our trade deals without taking any account of the UK's interests. That certainly seems democratic and reasonable to me" is fanciful at best.
A transitional deal may work. A permanent one would be thoroughly wretched, the act of politicians more interested in serving the interests of the EU than those of the British electorate.
Edited extra bit: changed 'or' to 'nor'.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1003616082257678336?s=190 -
Dependencies.OldKingCole said:
Like training train drivers on new routes, eh?Alanbrooke said:
Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,williamglenn said:
Does that help you on day one? Week one? Month one? Year one?Alanbrooke said:
errRochdalePioneers said:
Oh dear God...RoyalBlue said:
You’ve hit the nail on the head. New Zealand and Peru are irrin terms of supply chains etc.DavidL said:
Do you think we get a lot of trucks from New Zealand or Peru? This really is nonsense. And we are working on electronic borders for exporters and importers in accordance with the UCC program I linked to earlier. It is an EU requirement to have such systems in place by 2020.RochdalePioneers said:
Thus demonstrating the folly of the "I know better than the ports and customs and import/export industries" viewpoint.DavidL said:
Why do you think borders would close? Do we not import food from countries not in the Customs Union? How do you think that Peruvian asparagus ends up in Tescos? Or New Zealand lamb? Or....
There is no doubt that not being in any Customs Union would be an irritant to trade, particularly with items that have long international supply chains such as cars, but suggesting that we could not feed ourselves is frankly absurd. As usual in this debate there is no sense of proportion which means the up and down sides get absurdly exaggerated.
We leave the Customs Union and Single Market on 29te, maybe. But not in 9 months.
This is clueless. New Zealand exporters to the UK don't send a special load to the UK and a different load to the EU. They import everything to transshipment ports like Rotterdam. So our "product of New Zealand" is an EU import.
Again, please please please go and read up on logistics before you fuck this up for everyone.
that looks to me like in future they change their loading policies and ship direct to UK. Just because theyre doing it today doesnt mean they will continue to do it. There may as a consequence be fewer shipments or some added cost but that looks the more sensible thing for companies to do.
This happens in companies all the time.
You cannot hold more stock if there are long lead times or the stock is unavailable, or you do not have enough suitable storage (as well as other reasons), and you cannot train drivers on new routes if those routes are not completed.0 -
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Nope, not any more Ian Paisley Jnr even tweeted a Catholic priest's support for the DUP's pro life stance at the weekend and the DUP are now openly targeting Catholic social conservativesOldKingCole said:
He’s Catholic though. That might cause a bit of a cough.HYUFD said:
The DUP would happily swap PM May for PM Rees Mogg I agree on that, PM Mogg would also have the bonus of being anti abortion as well as pro hard BrexitJackW said:Attempting a "charm offensive" with the DUP may be likened to attempting a charm offensive with a crocodile - You might think you can tickle its tummy and wrestle with the beast but in the end you get rolled over numerous times, drowned and eaten.
Revenge for the DUP crocodile is a meal best eaten cold and when the Conservatives are near dead in the water the Ulster reptiles will consume them.0 -
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When asked if they could change heir supply chain they said that given 18 months they would be able to reconfigure their business so that JIT parts were held in warehouses they'd need to build so that disruption from leaving the EEA/CU could be minimised. That this would make Swindon the most expensive place in the world to build a Honda and thus wouldn't happen doesn't seem to bother crash brexiteers, nor that they don't have 18 months.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
And JIT is the same for so many other industries. Its all very well for Alanbrooke et al to scoff and say "just add more stock". At what cost? Paid by whom? Stored where? When industry warns of massive price rises post Brexit its called project fear yet the cost of all this will be massive.
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.0 -
The problem for Brexiteers is not that new customs arrangements can't be reached, it's that they lied to the public about how quickly and painlessly they could be achieved.
Could take 10 years and cost billions.
Which means at least 1, and probably more than 1 General Election, each of which has the potential to completely shuffle the deck.0 -
It was before Baku they last published the list, there’s been a few more bits used since then. I think Lewis is still on #1 of everything though.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, I think that Vettel has taken some new parts (not exceeding the limit, but nudging it). Can't recall about Hamilton.
But over the course of the season I agree with you that Red Bull will suffer relative to their rivals due to reliability.
Mr. Rog, the books, I believe, have been signed off for a few years now. Because the EU decided to create their own little group to check their own books and decide they were ok.
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/237743/updated-list-for-power-unit-components-used0 -
Better stop sniping and make sure the Tories win then, eh?Scott_P said:The problem for Brexiteers is not that new customs arrangements can't be reached, it's that they lied to the public about how quickly and painlessly they could be achieved.
Could take 10 years and cost billions.
Which means at least 1, and probably more than 1 General Election, each of which has the potential to completely shuffle the deck.0 -
It isn't for the Tories, the majority of whose voters voted for Leave and the Tories are more at risk from a revived UKIP if we stay in the EEA and Customs Union with free movement. At most the Tories would lose a few Remainers to the LDs but keep a majority of their voters.RochdalePioneers said:There needs to be a discussion about some practical points. Whilst we debate the whys and wherefores of a customs union and try to ignore the same for the EEA, I have not yet heard any credible authoritative source state clearly that this country would be able to continue to function economically if we leave both next March.
Park the politics for a minute and ask how we continue to feed ourselves if the borders effectively close which is the collective view of absolutely everyone who knows how things actually work should we fall off the cliff in 9 months.
We don't get a transition period if there is no agreed deal to transition into. The EU can play the ultimate in hardball on this because although the UK border closing would hurt them it would cripple us - and the benefit to the EU is that no other country muttering about the EU would follow suit.
It doesn't matter if May is PM or not, if it harms Tory or Labour chances at some future date - crash out hard brexit is an extinction level event for any politician or political party who allows it to happen.
It might be for Labour as most Labour voters voted Remain and If they went en masse to the LDs after Corbyn failed to stop WTO terms Brexit0 -
Funny that Abortion rights will be the thing that does it for the DUP. They're already getting fan mail from the Catholic Church, and anything that dislodges them from "we've had devolution suspended and we have the government over a barrel" won't wash for Arlene "Hail Mary" Foster. Of course NI needs to enter the 20th century in this issue, and that is precisely why the DUP will try and stop it0
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If there was any appetite within Europe for this, they could have prevented the Brexit vote and the rise of a number of populist parties. So it ain’t going to happen.Alanbrooke said:Austrian Chancellor sets out alternative vision of Europe involving less Europe. Reduce the size of the commission and live within means.
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article176975668/Sebastian-Kurz-Oesterreichs-Kanzler-will-EU-Kommission-verkleinern.html0 -
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Mr. Sandpit, that could make the difference in the title race. Shame that Vettel had some bad luck. He deserves to be leading.0
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Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When asked if they could change heir supply chain they said that given 18 months they would be able to reconfigure their business so that JIT parts were held in warehouses they'd need to build so that disruption from leaving the EEA/CU could be minimised. That this would make Swindon the most expensive place in the world to build a Honda and thus wouldn't happen doesn't seem to bother crash brexiteers, nor that they don't have 18 months.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
And JIT is the same for so many other industries. Its all very well for Alanbrooke et al to scoff and say "just add more stock". At what cost? Paid by whom? Stored where? When industry warns of massive price rises post Brexit its called project fear yet the cost of all this will be massive.
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
You simply take a point that there will be adaption costs - there will - and then spin it out to claim it's aramageddon. Large car companies have huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.0 -
Ironically, abortion could end up being the issue that gets the NI parties back together in Stormont. Specifically the chance that feminists in the UK Parliament might try and force a vote on it there.RochdalePioneers said:Funny that Abortion rights will be the thing that does it for the DUP. They're already getting fan mail from the Catholic Church, and anything that dislodges them from "we've had devolution suspended and we have the government over a barrel" won't wash for Arlene "Hail Mary" Foster. Of course NI needs to enter the 20th century in this issue, and that is precisely why the DUP will try and stop it
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and there was me thinking we were in the 21 centuryRochdalePioneers said:Funny that Abortion rights will be the thing that does it for the DUP. They're already getting fan mail from the Catholic Church, and anything that dislodges them from "we've had devolution suspended and we have the government over a barrel" won't wash for Arlene "Hail Mary" Foster. Of course NI needs to enter the 20th century in this issue, and that is precisely why the DUP will try and stop it
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i'd take that.HYUFD said:
Opinium yesterday found a majority would accept EEA plus restrictions including a job offer requirement to come here rather than pure FOM, that would be similar to the transition controls we could have had in 2004.archer101au said:
Again, the problem is not with the Leavers. It is the EU that rejects a time limited customs agreement, just as they have rejected any sort of 'soft' Brexit that is not EEA status. The EU will not agree to any transition that is not under the current terms (eg vassal state).rcs1000 said:
There seems to be a serious lack of nuance in your comments.Elliot said:
This is exactly right. Staying in the Customs Union tries to ch in place.archer101au said:
This is what appeasing the EU gets you. As I have said for months (years?) if May sells out in the final deal the electoral blowback will be horrific. UK public will not stand for humiliation at the hands of the EU and the Remainers. Hard Brexit is the only way she can maintain the support she already has.Scott_P said:
Will people care if Brexit does not mean more control for the British people and parliament in the medium term? Yes.
Will people care if the transition from CET to a British External Tariff takes (say) five years, and there are no economic issues along the way? Of course not.
People care about:
(1) Their personal economic circumstances
(2) The direction of travel
My view is that by far the biggest threat to Brexit is a major recession. We have been lucky, to date, that external demand has been buttressed by acceleration in growth among all our major trading partners.
When we entered the EEC we had a seven year transition from Imperial Preference Tariffs to the Common External Tariff. I don't think we need the same length of transition again, but I also think this idea that a time limited customs agreement is somehow a sell out is insanity.
The only problem from the Leavers point of view is that the EU now 'reject' FTA Brexit as well because of the bogus issue of NI. So we will just leave without a deal as there clearly is no deal on offer that is not EEA-plus.
The CU debate is about trying to stay in the SM, and ignores the fact that we can only do that via accepting FOM. The moment the Remainers 'win' the CU argument, they will have to start 're-defining' what constitutes FOM because only EEA-plus is available.
Face it - this is all about rejecting the verdict of the referendum.
In December the EU and UK agreed enough regulatory alignment between the UK and Republic of Ireland to enable Canada style FTA talks0 -
Albeit one of those who had their escape routes from Götterdämmerung well planned beforehand, though tbf that doesn't really distinguish him from any other high profile Leaver.williamglenn said:Digby is desperate for a role in the bunker for Brexit’s final scene.
https://twitter.com/digbylj/status/1003722707744251904?s=21
https://twitter.com/digbylj/status/1003722709623242752?s=210 -
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost issue. Why should they bother? Their entire business ethos is JIT. No Honda factory on the globe operates the way you'd have it, and if they went through the rigmarole we'd end up so uncompetitive on unit costs that the factory closes anyway. And its not just Honda Swindon - they all operate the same way. As do our train factories.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When asked if they could change heir supply chain they said that given 18 months they would be able to reconfigure their business so that JIT parts were held in warehouses they'd need to build so that disruption from leaving the EEA/CU could be minimised. That this would make Swindon the most expensive place in the world to build a Honda and thus wouldn't happen doesn't seem to bother crash brexiteers, nor that they don't have 18 months.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
And JIT is the same for so many other industries. Its all very well for Alanbrooke et al to scoff and say "just add more stock". At what cost? Paid by whom? Stored where? When industry warns of massive price rises post Brexit its called project fear yet the cost of all this will be massive.
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
You simply take a point that there will be adaption costs - there will - and then spin it out to claim it's aramageddon. Large car companies have huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.0 -
They rent it when they need . Or is that a shock to you ?Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Peugeot and Renault hold up to a year's stock of some parts when they are unsure of the supplier they are using due to strikes and trading.
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Funny that, the more often politicians people are on the TV trying to find ways of derailing the will of the people, the more disillusioned those people are that the government will actually implement what they voted for.Scott_P said:0 -
Exactly. Leaving the EU isn't the problem. Its leaving the EEA/CU that's the problem. We leave the EU. We join EFTA. We keep trading. We announce a "new" plan to deport EU migrants after 3 months. The Hate Mail will love it. Job done.Slackbladder said:
i'd take that.0 -
The problems they’re used to getting round don’t include systemic breakdowns. During the fuel protests supermarket shelves were emptied.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When asked if they could change heir supply chain they said that given 18 months they would be able to reconfigure their business so that JIT parts were held in warehouses they'd need to build so that disruption from leaving the EEA/CU could be minimised. That this would make Swindon the most expensive place in the world to build a Honda and thus wouldn't happen doesn't seem to bother crash brexiteers, nor that they don't have 18 months.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
And JIT is the same for so many other industries. Its all very well for Alanbrooke et al to scoff and say "just add more stock". At what cost? Paid by whom? Stored where? When industry warns of massive price rises post Brexit its called project fear yet the cost of all this will be massive.
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
You simply take a point that there will be adaption costs - there will - and then spin it out to claim it's aramageddon. Large car companies have huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.0 -
Sarcasm doesn’t always work, Mr P, does it!Alanbrooke said:
and there was me thinking we were in the 21 centuryRochdalePioneers said:Funny that Abortion rights will be the thing that does it for the DUP. They're already getting fan mail from the Catholic Church, and anything that dislodges them from "we've had devolution suspended and we have the government over a barrel" won't wash for Arlene "Hail Mary" Foster. Of course NI needs to enter the 20th century in this issue, and that is precisely why the DUP will try and stop it
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And massively increase their costs...Alanbrooke said:They rent it when they need .
Making them more expensive, or uneconomic.0 -
Yes, the important issue for what i think are a good proportion of leavers is that they do not want to be part of the policitical union of the EU. The economic fair trade area is pretty important, and on the 'whole' probably needed.RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Leaving the EU isn't the problem. Its leaving the EEA/CU that's the problem. We leave the EU. We join EFTA. We keep trading. We announce a "new" plan to deport EU migrants after 3 months. The Hate Mail will love it. Job done.Slackbladder said:
i'd take that.0 -
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies adapt all the time and pay for it out of their trading. When aluminium or steel go shooting up they pay it, when petrol seeps through to their logistics costs they pay it. When Fukushima takes out large chunks of their key suppliers they resource and air ship parts and it costs them money. No company is guaranteed a profit and cost shocks are a feature of business.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost issue. Why should they bother? Their entire business ethos is JIT. No Honda factory on the globe operates the way you'd have it, and if they went through the rigmarole we'd end up so uncompetitive on unit costs that the factory closes anyway. And its not just Honda Swindon - they all operate the same way. As do our train factories.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
You simply take a point that there will be adaption costs - there will - and then spin it out to claim it's aramageddon. Large car companies have huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
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No they weren’t.williamglenn said:
The problems they’re used to getting round don’t include systemic breakdowns. During the fuel protests supermarket shelves were emptied.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When asked if they could change heir supply chain they said that given 18 months they would be able to reconfigure their business so that JIT parts were held in warehouses they'd need to build so that disruption from leaving the EEA/CU could be minimised. That this would make Swindon the most expensive place in the world to build a Honda and thus wouldn't happen doesn't seem to bother crash brexiteers, nor that they don't have 18 months.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
And JIT is the same for so many other industries. Its all very well for Alanbrooke et al to scoff and say "just add more stock". At what cost? Paid by whom? Stored where? When industry warns of massive price rises post Brexit its called project fear yet the cost of all this will be massive.
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
You simply take a point that there will be adaption costs - there will - and then spin it out to claim it's aramageddon. Large car companies have huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
There were some shortages of bread and milk for a few days, most local supply issues were caused by panic buying. Just the sort of panic that certain groups of people are trying to stoke up now.
http://iwar.org.uk/cip/resources/PSEPC/fuel-price-protests.htm0 -
You do know that being in EFTA precludes being in the CU don't you?RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Leaving the EU isn't the problem. Its leaving the EEA/CU that's the problem. We leave the EU. We join EFTA. We keep trading. We announce a "new" plan to deport EU migrants after 3 months. The Hate Mail will love it. Job done.Slackbladder said:
i'd take that.0 -
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies adapt all the time and pay for it out of their trading. When aluminium or steel go shooting up they pay it, when petrol seeps through to their logistics costs they pay it. When Fukushima takes out large chunks of their key suppliers they resource and air ship parts and it costs them money. No company is guaranteed a profit and cost shocks are a feature of business.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost issue. Why should they bother? Their entire business ethos is JIT. No Honda factory on the globe operates the way you'd have it, and if they went through the rigmarole we'd end up so uncompetitive on unit costs that the factory closes anyway. And its not just Honda Swindon - they all operate the same way. As do our train factories.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.0 -
silly ramping. Even if you spent £1m on additional warehousing that's just in the rounding for companies with £10+bn turnover. The increase on their JIT petrol bill would be bigger than that based on May's price increases.Scott_P said:
And massively increase their costs...Alanbrooke said:They rent it when they need .
Making them more expensive, or uneconomic.
0 -
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost issue. Why should they bother? Their entire business ethos is JIT. No Honda factory on the globe operates the way you'd have it, and if they went through the rigmarole we'd end up so uncompetitive on unit costs that the factory closes anyway. And its not just Honda Swindon - they all operate the same way. As do our train factories.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.0 -
When the 'will of the people' is an inchoate desire to return to the past, politicians are on a hiding to nothing whatever they try to do... unless you're suggesting we come up with our own version of Trump ?Sandpit said:
Funny that, the more often politicians people are on the TV trying to find ways of derailing the will of the people...Scott_P said:0 -
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.0 -
0
-
Off topic?
I heard yesterday that two of the very largest marketers in the U.K. - I won’t say who - are well advanced in their plans to move their European marketing HQs to Amsterdam.
Knock on effect on the U.K. advertising industry - one of the few industries where we are genuine world leaders - expected to be significant (though, as with all these things, loss of billings won’t happen “overnight” as contracts wind down etc).0 -
So Brexiters are having a hissy fit when rational people aren't saying stop Brexit, they aren't calling for a second referendum, or even passing comment on the wisdom of the vote to leave. They are just pointing out that a properly organised Brexit, of whatever flavour, would and will take years to arrange - ie the bleedin' obvious.
And the Brexiters shout "Traitor". A sign, IMO, that they know the whole thing is a shitshow and are trying to shout the loudest to drown out their own doubts.0 -
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of the economics of a car. No car company works on true JIT they all hold stocks of varying degrees. True JIT only works in Japan where the shortage of land puts pressure on suppliers to get parts out the door asap. In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.0 -
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost issue. Why should they bother? Their entire business ethos is JIT. No Honda factory on the globe operates the way you'd have it, and if they went through the rigmarole we'd end up so uncompetitive on unit costs that the factory closes anyway. And its not just Honda Swindon - they all operate the same way. As do our train factories.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We needed 5 years to allow business and infrastructure to adapt, to allow local companies to try and scale up and take business back into the UK from elsewhere. Maybe then we would have been ok.
But instead Mrs Dipshit and her band of idiots have failed to negotiate themselves out of their paper bag, and we face crashing out with the emphasis on crash. Ignore it all you like. You won't be able to do that for long. Industry has just issued May with a put up or shut up directive - she either tells them how their businesses will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.0 -
Why are you bothering?Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of the economics of a car. No car company works on true JIT they all hold stocks of varying degrees. True JIT only works in Japan where the shortage of land puts pressure on suppliers to get parts out the door asap. In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
The economic model approved by Brexiters - Minfordism - assumes that manufacturing will collapse as we cannot do it cost effectively in the brave new world.
Have the courage of your convictions.0 -
lolTOPPING said:
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost iss will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.
you were noticeably silent when all those other car plants closed down like Ford Southampton where the EU subsidised Turkey to transfer the jobs and production.
Why the sudden interest ?
I thought you'd be flat hunting in Frankfurt by now.0 -
You ain’t seen nothing yet.TOPPING said:So Brexiters are having a hissy fit when rational people aren't saying stop Brexit, they aren't calling for a second referendum, or even passing comment on the wisdom of the vote to leave. They are just pointing out that a properly organised Brexit, of whatever flavour, would and will take years to arrange - ie the bleedin' obvious.
And the Brexiters shout "Traitor". A sign, IMO, that they know the whole thing is a shitshow and are trying to shout the loudest to drown out their own doubts.
Let us imagine Brexit turns into a shit show and economics forced us to rejoin the EU replete with the Euro and Schengen.
I suspect Leavers will be like the Japanese on Okinawa after the battle.0 -
Mr Gove would be an excellent PM - I hope he takes over as soon as possible.rottenborough said:Those runners and riders in full:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/10038902768496517170 -
Indeed. A quick look at a satellite pic of Honda’s factory shows that it’s on a disused airfield site, with plenty of paved space for warehousing, and surrounded by fields on and off site. It wouldn’t be rocket science to be able to store more parts there if they thought there would be a few weeks of supply chain disruption.Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
...Alanbrooke said:..
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of the economics of a car. No car company works on true JIT they all hold stocks of varying degrees. True JIT only works in Japan where the shortage of land puts pressure on suppliers to get parts out the door asap. In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
There will also be a team of logistics professionals there, who will be well accustomed to lead times, possible shocks, product shortages and the need to use alternative means of transport for delivery if necessary to keep the lines running. They’ll happily charter a plane for a handful components if they need to, it’s just one of the many costs of doing business.0 -
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
0 -
See the post below yours, Scott :-)Scott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
JIT is a marginal gain that can be unwound. That's not ideal, which is why nearly everybody would like a comprehensive FTA with the EU.0 -
“Hilarious” that we are having these discussions just nine months out.Scott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
The government is gravely culpable of gross malfeasance. How long before Brexit’s answer to the Chilcot enquiry?0 -
I do and as I point out the economics of manufacturing changes all the time. You don't work in manufacturing so how would you know what will come. The UK manufacturing sector will do better outside the EU than in it. And will do even better if we had a government which wished to seriously rebalance the economy.Gardenwalker said:
Why are you bothering?Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of thecturing are different.
The economic model approved by Brexiters - Minfordism - assumes that manufacturing will collapse as we cannot do it cost effectively in the brave new world.
Have the courage of your convictions.
0 -
The people voted to create an imaginary and unattainable world which cannot be delivered. They were told that leaving the EU would be easy, cost nothing and all the benefits of membership could be retained without any of the downsides. All of this could be brought about simply by placing an X in the leave box. They were told, in effect, that 2 plus 2 could be made to equal 5 simply by voting for it to be so.Nigelb said:
When the 'will of the people' is an inchoate desire to return to the past, politicians are on a hiding to nothing whatever they try to do... unless you're suggesting we come up with our own version of Trump ?Sandpit said:
Funny that, the more often politicians people are on the TV trying to find ways of derailing the will of the people...Scott_P said:
0 -
I'd rather be fully in with the Euro and Shengen than the current half-baked in-ness we have.TheScreamingEagles said:
You ain’t seen nothing yet.TOPPING said:So Brexiters are having a hissy fit when rational people aren't saying stop Brexit, they aren't calling for a second referendum, or even passing comment on the wisdom of the vote to leave. They are just pointing out that a properly organised Brexit, of whatever flavour, would and will take years to arrange - ie the bleedin' obvious.
And the Brexiters shout "Traitor". A sign, IMO, that they know the whole thing is a shitshow and are trying to shout the loudest to drown out their own doubts.
Let us imagine Brexit turns into a shit show and economics forced us to rejoin the EU replete with the Euro and Schengen.
I suspect Leavers will be like the Japanese on Okinawa after the battle.0 -
Ho humScott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.0 -
Yes it was a challenging environment but there was I thinking that the government wouldn't go out of their way to put more hurdles in front of what was, in my uninformed opinion, seemingly a successful domestic industry.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost iss will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.
you were noticeably silent when all those other car plants closed down like Ford Southampton where the EU subsidised Turkey to transfer the jobs and production.
Why the sudden interest ?
I thought you'd be flat hunting in Frankfurt by now.
Strange times, indeed and yes, @Gardenwalker Patrick Minford must be grinning like a Cheshire cat as his plans for the destruction of UK industry come to fruition.0 -
Prior to Brexit, automotive manufacturing was at record levels in the UK though and the government proclaimed it proudly quite regularly. So not sure where you get this idea there was no interest.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost iss will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.
you were noticeably silent when all those other car plants closed down like Ford Southampton where the EU subsidised Turkey to transfer the jobs and production.
Why the sudden interest ?
I thought you'd be flat hunting in Frankfurt by now.0 -
Putting aside the rebalancing point, with which I have some sympathy, you are the only person claiming that manufacturing will do better outside the EU.Alanbrooke said:
I do and as I point out the economics of manufacturing changes all the time. You don't work in manufacturing so how would you know what will come. The UK manufacturing sector will do better outside the EU than in it. And will do even better if we had a government which wished to seriously rebalance the economy.Gardenwalker said:
Why are you bothering?Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gave evidence. When as of all this will be massive.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Not that its even an option for a significant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of thecturing are different.
The economic model approved by Brexiters - Minfordism - assumes that manufacturing will collapse as we cannot do it cost effectively in the brave new world.
Have the courage of your convictions.
Put up or shut up.0 -
The paucity of vision of those that continue to think our post Brexit fortunes will be fixed forever by any deal rather than the actions of the citizens and government over the next decades is startling.
Get out from under nurse's petticoats.0 -
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point0 -
record UK car manufacturing output was circa 1972. Weve never hit those levels sinceJonathanD said:
Prior to Brexit, automotive manufacturing was at record levels in the UK though and the government proclaimed it proudly quite regularly. So not sure where you get this idea there was no interest.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost iss will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.
you were noticeably silent when all those other car plants closed down like Ford Southampton where the EU subsidised Turkey to transfer the jobs and production.
Why the sudden interest ?
I thought you'd be flat hunting in Frankfurt by now.0 -
On some kind of topic:
This shit just got serious - the first candidate to respond well to Michael McIntyre getting mugged will leap to favourite in the next Mayor of London market.0 -
the car industry has always progressed despite government rather than because of it.TOPPING said:
Yes it was a challenging environment but there was I thinking that the government wouldn't go out of their way to put more hurdles in front of what was, in my uninformed opinion, seemingly a successful domestic industry.Alanbrooke said:
lolTOPPING said:
Vote Brexit - let's take control of closing down all our uneconomic car plants.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheble future.RochdalePioneers said:
*facepalm" you aren't addressing the cost iss will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:
Honda rocked up to parliament and gaant part of the food industry. You can't hold more stock on short life products, it just rots.Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
Add that one to the list - productivity, technical education, class sizes, etc.
you were noticeably silent when all those other car plants closed down like Ford Southampton where the EU subsidised Turkey to transfer the jobs and production.
Why the sudden interest ?
I thought you'd be flat hunting in Frankfurt by now.
Strange times, indeed and yes, @Gardenwalker Patrick Minford must be grinning like a Cheshire cat as his plans for the destruction of UK industry come to fruition.0 -
Did they not include JRM in their 'selected others'?rottenborough said:Those runners and riders in full:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/10038902768496517170 -
Indeed. But there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.Tissue_Price said:
See the post below yours, Scott :-)Scott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
JIT is a marginal gain that can be unwound. That's not ideal, which is why nearly everybody would like a comprehensive FTA with the EU.0 -
I am on Alanbrookes side in this. No car manufacturing company in the UK uses JIT from European suppliers. i.e the lorry from Europe going from EU component place to UK factory and arriving at the exact moment. They all use intermediate warehousing and lots of it.
JLR use DHL who handle all of their logistics from intermediate warehouse to JLR factory.
The statement that Honda have one hour stock in the factory or Nissan has 1/2 a day is correct the question is how much stock is held in the intermediate warehouse.
Also in the statements to the select committee both Nissan and Honda said that 205% of the components they use come from Japan and take 6 weeks with no guaranteed arrival time apart from a few days. How is this JIT?
The issue the car industry has to solve and solve it they will is to keep getting enough staock into the intermediate warehouse to supply the factory.
The issue for the UK government is to reduce the cost of doing business in the UK to offset the increase in logistics costs. This is the famous quote from the Japanese Ambassador on the steps of Downing Street "The car factories must be profitable" translated we need compensation.
google JLR DHL logistics to understand how it works for JLR.0 -
There's no point arguing with those who deny a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.Sandpit said:there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.
0 -
There isn't a chaotic situation at present. Unless you count Westminster...Scott_P said:
There's no point arguing with those who deny a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.Sandpit said:there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.
0 -
Whether it's chaotic or "just" another 10p on booze and fags which people will likely not notice, no Remainer "wants" the UK to be less well off than it currently is for some spurious idea of sovereignty which no one can define and which we possessed anyway.Sandpit said:
Indeed. But there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, so that they can be seen to be proved right over Brexit.Tissue_Price said:
See the post below yours, Scott :-)Scott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
JIT is a marginal gain that can be unwound. That's not ideal, which is why nearly everybody would like a comprehensive FTA with the EU.
Oh yes, so that leaves the old immigration reason. And, as has been endlessly rehearsed on here, it means that we now live in a country* which has somehow legitimised or de-unlegitimised a dislike of foreigners (cf Jeremy Corbyn's Jewish Problem).
*Not you of course.0 -
Most don't.Scott_P said:
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point
Next.
0 -
@ralphmalph
Why should I - in London - pay taxes to compensate Japanese owned manufacturers in the regions? Those fuckers voted Brexit, they should eat it.
Unless you mean costs should reduce via long term wage stagnation. Which would be just.0 -
Voters think the government is doing a crap job on Brexit and that is the fault of... anyone but the government. Hmmm?Sandpit said:
Funny that, the more often politicians people are on the TV trying to find ways of derailing the will of the people, the more disillusioned those people are that the government will actually implement what they voted for.Scott_P said:
You've spun that to your own satisfaction but I doubt you'll convince anyone who is not already a true believer.0 -
Bollocksralphmalph said:I am on Alanbrookes side in this. No car manufacturing company in the UK uses JIT from European suppliers. i.e the lorry from Europe going from EU component place to UK factory and arriving at the exact moment.
https://automotivelogistics.media/intelligence/mini-plant-huge-complexity
The JIS/JIT process, for example, includes full truckloads delivering in high frequency from supplier locations, some of them close to the plant and in the UK, but also several part groupings delivered in sequence from as far away as Romania.0 -
You seem to be more than usually rattled this morning Alan... Is it the dawning realisation of the shitfest Brexit has, and was always going to, become?Alanbrooke said:
Most don't.Scott_P said:
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point
Next.0 -
Definitely nowhere at all in this picture that could be used as temporary storage if it were required, not at all...
0 -
why should I in Warwickshire underwrite foreign owned banks in London which totally screwed the economy ?Gardenwalker said:@ralphmalph
Why should I - in London - pay taxes to compensate Japanese owned manufacturers in the regions? Those fuckers voted Brexit, they should eat it.
Unless you mean costs should reduce via long term wage stagnation. Which would be just.
we can play this all day0 -
Mrs May has spent the last two years negotiating with her party instead of the EU.Tissue_Price said:
There isn't a chaotic situation at present. Unless you count Westminster...Scott_P said:
There's no point arguing with those who deny a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.Sandpit said:there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.
0 -
-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/04/merkel-pours-ice-cold-water-macrons-carolingian-vision/
"Germany has swept aside France's grand plan for eurozone reform, refusing to concede any substantive step towards fiscal union or a federal EU crisis machinery to cope with the next global recession.
The minimalist proposals offered by Chancellor Angela Merkel after months of silence rehearse long-standing German objections to a shared budget, and retreat from concessions briefly floated last year. "0 -
I see we’re discussing on here this morning how the EU could achieve what Admiral Dönitz couldn’t.
Battle of La Manche?0 -
no, I'm just bored arguing with people who have never put a car together telling me how to put a car together.Benpointer said:
You seem to be more than usually rattled this morning Alan... Is it the dawning realisation of the shitfest Brexit has, and was always going to, become?Alanbrooke said:
Most don't.Scott_P said:
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point
Next.
0 -
Constitutional lawyer Ted Cruz on being asked about the limits of Presidential power…
https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/1003759232389402624?
….Cruz is silent for eighteen (18!) seconds before telling reporters it’s not a constitutional area he’s studied…
Which is a fairly blatant lie:
http://www.harvard-jlpp.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Cruz_Final.pdf0 -
lolScott_P said:
Bollocksralphmalph said:I am on Alanbrookes side in this. No car manufacturing company in the UK uses JIT from European suppliers. i.e the lorry from Europe going from EU component place to UK factory and arriving at the exact moment.
https://automotivelogistics.media/intelligence/mini-plant-huge-complexity
The JIS/JIT process, for example, includes full truckloads delivering in high frequency from supplier locations, some of them close to the plant and in the UK, but also several part groupings delivered in sequence from as far away as Romania.
and then stored in sequence near Cowley.
0 -
You appear to be addressing a point I didn't make.Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of the economics of a car. No car company works on true JIT they all hold stocks of varying degrees. True JIT only works in Japan where the shortage of land puts pressure on suppliers to get parts out the door asap. In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.0 -
Not even I think that the EU wants to starve us into surrendering.Casino_Royale said:I see we’re discussing on here this morning how the EU could achieve what Admiral Dönitz couldn’t.
Battle of La Manche?
O/T there were some good PMI data this morning.0 -
The article states that Mini on site has 65,000 m2 of logistics space. Mini owns it's intermediate warehouse. As I said the real question is how many days supply of the parts shipped from Romania they hold. It will not be zero.Scott_P said:
Bollocksralphmalph said:I am on Alanbrookes side in this. No car manufacturing company in the UK uses JIT from European suppliers. i.e the lorry from Europe going from EU component place to UK factory and arriving at the exact moment.
https://automotivelogistics.media/intelligence/mini-plant-huge-complexity
The JIS/JIT process, for example, includes full truckloads delivering in high frequency from supplier locations, some of them close to the plant and in the UK, but also several part groupings delivered in sequence from as far away as Romania.
Having said that using JIT for 1 part when the car contains 35,000 parts is not JIT manufacturing.0 -
That's explicitly not what the article says.Alanbrooke said:and then stored in sequence near Cowley.
I now see your difficulty with comprehension starts with not being able to read0 -
It's almost like the Germans want to have their cake and eat it...TGOHF said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/04/merkel-pours-ice-cold-water-macrons-carolingian-vision/
"Germany has swept aside France's grand plan for eurozone reform, refusing to concede any substantive step towards fiscal union or a federal EU crisis machinery to cope with the next global recession.
The minimalist proposals offered by Chancellor Angela Merkel after months of silence rehearse long-standing German objections to a shared budget, and retreat from concessions briefly floated last year. "0 -
it was more interesting than the rest of your post.Nigelb said:
You appear to be addressing a point I didn't make.Alanbrooke said:
If the plant is uneconomic they'll close it.Nigelb said:
Quite.Alanbrooke said:
the factory has been suboptimal for years. A car plant needs a volume of circa 250k a year, Honda Swindon has rarely hit those levels in all its operational history.Nigelb said:
Or might just shut it down...Alanbrooke said:
Well a nice morning rant, but nonetheless companies usiness.RochdalePioneers said:Alanbrooke said:
Honda were the people who in 2008 closed their factory for6 months with a few weeks notice and didn't give a stuff for their supply chain.RochdalePioneers said:Scott_P said:
That's not how auto industry JIT works.Alanbrooke said:Prior to day one if you know there is a problem you order more and hold more in stock until the new order pattern settles down,
This happens in companies all the time.
They can't "hold more stock". They don't have space. That's kind of the whole point...
Like I said, clueless. Its theoretical waffle which supposedly trumps real world practice and experience.
huge logistics departments who are very skilled at getting round problems and do it every day.
We could have planned to leave everything. We neede will function post Brexit or they assume the worst.
wrt Honda Swindon shipment costs is not in any case their biggest problem. They have an indifferent model range which hasn't been selling well and until this is put right they will have spare capacity for the foreseeable future.
We're conveniently providing them with a reason to shut it down.
However youre simply showing you have no idea of the economics of a car. No car company works on true JIT they all hold stocks of varying degrees. True JIT only works in Japan where the shortage of land puts pressure on suppliers to get parts out the door asap. In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
0 -
You already do. Go and Google APC - Advanced Propulsion Centre the Govt put 500million in to secure EV manufacture in the UK. It is why the Nissan Leaf is made here and the iPace will be made here ( that will cost the UK taxpayer another 450mill).Gardenwalker said:@ralphmalph
Why should I - in London - pay taxes to compensate Japanese owned manufacturers in the regions? Those fuckers voted Brexit, they should eat it.
Unless you mean costs should reduce via long term wage stagnation. Which would be just.0 -
There is a difference between pointing out that we might be heading for a chaotic situation, and sleepwalking into one.Sandpit said:
Indeed. But there’s no point arguing with those to seem to actively want a chaotic situation, purely so that they can be seen to be proved “right” over Brexit.Tissue_Price said:
See the post below yours, Scott :-)Scott_P said:
Where is the UK is land "freely available" next to a car plant?Alanbrooke said:In countries where land is freely available the economics of manufacturing are different.
JIT is a marginal gain that can be unwound. That's not ideal, which is why nearly everybody would like a comprehensive FTA with the EU.0 -
We've had enough of experts...Alanbrooke said:
no, I'm just bored arguing with people who have never put a car together telling me how to put a car together.Benpointer said:
You seem to be more than usually rattled this morning Alan... Is it the dawning realisation of the shitfest Brexit has, and was always going to, become?Alanbrooke said:
Most don't.Scott_P said:
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point
Next.0 -
No Scott it's that Ive actually done a lot of automotive logistics in my full time job so I don't need to look up PR releases on the internet or convince myself to believe them.Scott_P said:
That's explicitly not what the article says.Alanbrooke said:and then stored in sequence near Cowley.
I now see your difficulty with comprehension starts with not being able to read0 -
Do you really think that car manufacturers make knee-jerk reactions over multi-billion pound facilities, based on what the politicians are up to this month or this year?Scott_P said:
At what cost?Sandpit said:Definitely nowhere at all in this picture that could be used as temporary storage if it were required, not at all...
If the plant is already unprofitable...
While they will undoubtedly make representations to the government about what’s going on, the reality is that they will take a long term view of whatever new arrangements are put in place, will evaluate future investment decisions when they have all the information they need to hand.
A process such as the UK leaving the EU will have a long list of short term and long term positive and negative externalities for any given business. There will be plenty of business that increase their UK activity as a result of Brexit, especially so if it’s followed by a more friendly regulatory and tax environment.0 -
lolStereotomy said:
We've had enough of experts...Alanbrooke said:
no, I'm just bored arguing with people who have never put a car together telling me how to put a car together.Benpointer said:
You seem to be more than usually rattled this morning Alan... Is it the dawning realisation of the shitfest Brexit has, and was always going to, become?Alanbrooke said:
Most don't.Scott_P said:
They store them in other peoples warehouses. In other countries. With JIT shipping...Alanbrooke said:car manufacturers store parts all over the place and then ship it in to their warehouses. Next.
That's the whole point
Next.0
This discussion has been closed.