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A reminder that most of the time, things don't happen.0
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Funny that......see you in 2022....(though I think she should stand down in 2019 once (assuming) Brexit is sorted......)0
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And also that it’s very difficult to unseat a serving PM out with some catastrophe on their watch....(Chamberlain, Eden)DecrepitJohnL said:A reminder that most of the time, things don't happen.
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FPT:
So Sturgeon is supporting Catalonia over Madrid?scotslass said:fell hook line and sinker for the fake Sturgeon parody site supporting Madrid over Catalonia
Asking for a friend....
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So it’s not just the UK facing challenges over a “no deal” Brexit.....
http://suttonnick.tumblr.com/image/1669227297210 -
TM's legacy will be fascinating to pick over when the time comes, she possibly wont even write a memoir. I'm not sure any Tory could do any better at holding the party steady(ish) at what is probably their most difficult period in government since the Maastricht votes and Major's dwindling majority of the mid 1990s.
I cant remember who said it, but this was probably the election not to win - I cant see any governing party being thanked by the electorate in say 4-5 years time.
A trigger event is what is needed for the Tories to commit regicide.....no idea what it will be though. Shapps's bumbling attempt a few weeks ago means the next one will be ruthless and sudden, then again TM whilst walking on Boxing Day may just decide she's had enough...I know if I was in my 60s running the country the idea just seems a nightmare(then again look at HRH)
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I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....0 -
Also, leaders whose parties are polling around 40pc don't usually get overthrown.CarlottaVance said:
And also that it’s very difficult to unseat a serving PM out with some catastrophe on their watch....(Chamberlain, Eden)DecrepitJohnL said:A reminder that most of the time, things don't happen.
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May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....
I'd agree with the analysis, then again who knows.....maybe she'll go onto something else, I cant see her doing a May foundation either....more likely head of the National Trust or WI? Cameron seems like a spare guest at a wedding if I am honest, trouble with being a young(ish) PM0 -
My favourite bit was the hungry sea cucumber gobbling food with its multiple frondy arms.0
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OGH - Do you mean 'Grant Shapps' rather than 'Gavin Shapps?'
Whatever you call him he's an utter fool. Remember that time he posted comments claiming to be a Liberal Democrat under his own name, then claimed his account had been hacked as his password was 1234?
If he's the best May's enemies can come up with she's safe enough for now.
And today of course she surpasses the Earl of Rosebery in 1895 for length of tenure - just 270 days to go to beat Eden!
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When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!0
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Shed? A hand-built shepherd's hut, please....CarlottaVance said:
I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....0 -
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.0 -
Theresa May is safe until a) she decides she's had enough or b) Brexit looks like it will have an OK resolution. Otherwise, why would you agitiate to get the top job - and walk straight into a kicking from the voters? Being remembered as the shortest ever PM who let in Jeremy Corbyn - and consequently, facilitated the UK's biggest ever economic disaster - hardly an attractive epitaph is it, Boris?
Theresa May: on and on..... Nailed on.0 -
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.0 -
Every scrap of Murdoch owned media in America, including the Wall Street Journal, is pushing a "Fire Mueller" line.
Buckle up people.0 -
Yes, no one sane would want to take the job at the moment.MarqueeMark said:Theresa May is safe until a) she decides she's had enough or b) Brexit looks like it will have an OK resolution. Otherwise, why would you agitiate to get the top job - and walk straight into a kicking from the voters? Being remembered as the shortest ever PM who let in Jeremy Corbyn - and consequently, facilitated the UK's biggest ever economic disaster - hardly an attractive epitaph is it, Boris?
Theresa May: on and on..... Nailed on.
May staggers on, unwanted and incompetent.0 -
The Godot principle?DecrepitJohnL said:A reminder that most of the time, things don't happen.
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Fixed it for you Dr!foxinsoxuk said:
Yes, no one sane would want to take the jobMarqueeMark said:Theresa May is safe until a) she decides she's had enough or b) Brexit looks like it will have an OK resolution. Otherwise, why would you agitiate to get the top job - and walk straight into a kicking from the voters? Being remembered as the shortest ever PM who let in Jeremy Corbyn - and consequently, facilitated the UK's biggest ever economic disaster - hardly an attractive epitaph is it, Boris?
Theresa May: on and on..... Nailed on.at the moment.
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Hand-crafted rustic shepherd's abode.MarqueeMark said:
Shed? A hand-built shepherd's hut, please....CarlottaVance said:
I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....
Where did you learn marketing?!0 -
https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/924102067035054082Alistair said:Every scrap of Murdoch owned media in America, including the Wall Street Journal, is pushing a "Fire Mueller" line.
Buckle up people.0 -
I worked in London in the early 00's and property was certainly not affordable then. I changed jobs moved to another city and had bought a house within a year.nielh said:
Within my circles, the stratification is between people who have property and those who don't. The people who own property and have lived in London will normally stay there. If you have a house in a nice area you will probably stay put. People who missed the opportunity to buy property when it was affordable (ie early 00's, brief period in 2009/2010) have to move out.
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It does look rather comfy for a home office. Dave has had the good grace to keep quiet about his successor, so far at least.Charles said:
Hand-crafted rustic shepherd's abode.MarqueeMark said:
Shed? A hand-built shepherd's hut, please....CarlottaVance said:
I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....
Where did you learn marketing?!0 -
Good morning, everyone.
F1: grargh. Early tips were green, race weekend ones red. A bet I had on Hamilton for the title should've paid out, and Bottas has also won the tip I made pre-season (top 3 at effectively 4/1).
The silly and tiny stakes bets I had on Ocon/Sainz/Hulkenberg to be top 2 (1001 to win each way) came closer than I thought. Force India were unlucky/screwed up their pit stop timing. If they'd done that better to keep Ocon ahead of Raikkonen and Verstappen's engine had gone, it would've come off.
Obviously that's two extra contingencies, but the odds on those things both happening at not over 300/1.
Will set about the analysis now.0 -
morning all,
Could we see a reshuffle within days? Telegraph reporting it is an "open secret" that two Cabinet ministers are involved in sexual harassment allegations.0 -
I must admit, it could be very helpful for TM if a certain Cabinet Minister was "named" so to speak......rottenborough said:morning all,
Could we see a reshuffle within days? Telegraph reporting it is an "open secret" that two Cabinet ministers are involved in sexual harassment allegations.0 -
It would be a surpise if a certain one wasn’t!swing_voter said:
I must admit, it could be very helpful for TM if a certain Cabinet Minister was "named" so to speak......rottenborough said:morning all,
Could we see a reshuffle within days? Telegraph reporting it is an "open secret" that two Cabinet ministers are involved in sexual harassment allegations.0 -
Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-417990260 -
Actually he’s been vaguely supportive with his “given the circs (which could be interpreted any number of ways) right thing to do” tweet on the DUP deal.....unlike Mr “chopped up in my freezer”....foxinsoxuk said:
It does look rather comfy for a home office. Dave has had the good grace to keep quiet about his successor, so far at least.Charles said:
Hand-crafted rustic shepherd's abode.MarqueeMark said:
Shed? A hand-built shepherd's hut, please....CarlottaVance said:
I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....
Where did you learn marketing?!0 -
DC is an old Etonian. GO isn'tCarlottaVance said:
Actually he’s been vaguely supportive with his “given the circs (which could be interpreted any number of ways) right thing to do” tweet on the DUP deal.....unlike Mr “chopped up in my freezer”....foxinsoxuk said:
It does look rather comfy for a home office. Dave has had the good grace to keep quiet about his successor, so far at least.Charles said:
Hand-crafted rustic shepherd's abode.MarqueeMark said:
Shed? A hand-built shepherd's hut, please....CarlottaVance said:
I suspect you mean HM....swing_voter said:(then again look at HRH)
May comes very much from a “duty” perspective and if she thinks she can still contribute she’ll want to....no flouncing off to edit freesheets or sitting in a shed for her.....
Where did you learn marketing?!0 -
Alan Clark set a high bar for sexual misconduct, but Mrs T shrugged it off. To some ecxtent I think most PMs make a judgment in which loyalty, embarrassment and value of the Minister all play a part. That said. I'm not clear why Clark was rated highly by her - an interesting character and good on animals, but otherwise...OldKingCole said:
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.
The public is pretty cynical about all this and I doubt if it affects voting very much ("they're all at it"), unless it reaches the criminal levels of child abuse, rape, or comparable behaviour. Doesn't mean that Parliament shouldn't address it properly.
FWIW, I asked my assistant of 13 years, who socialised more than I did, whether she'd ever encountered harassment. She said no, there were quite a few consensual high jinks going on, with some Faustian bargains between ambitious aides and lecherous politicians, but she never saw or encountered any actual harassment.0 -
The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.0
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I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
I can believe the Faustian bargains bit. Maybe later some of them were regretted! Or not wholly kept and there’s some buyers regret!NickPalmer said:
Alan Clark set a high bar for sexual misconduct, but Mrs T shrugged it off. To some ecxtent I think most PMs make a judgment in which loyalty, embarrassment and value of the Minister all play a part. That said. I'm not clear why Clark was rated highly by her - an interesting character and good on animals, but otherwise...OldKingCole said:
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.
The public is pretty cynical about all this and I doubt if it affects voting very much ("they're all at it"), unless it reaches the criminal levels of child abuse, rape, or comparable behaviour. Doesn't mean that Parliament shouldn't address it properly.
FWIW, I asked my assistant of 13 years, who socialised more than I did, whether she'd ever encountered harassment. She said no, there were quite a few consensual high jinks going on, with some Faustian bargains between ambitious aides and lecherous politicians, but she never saw or encountered any actual harassment.0 -
I thought major parts of Obama care IT data provision were underage by a Canadian company , but I could be very wrong about that, but I thought i remember surprise a major government contract on that went to non amercans.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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The story is a little surprising because we have been told that the Data Commissioner requires privileged information to be stored in the EU unless you are able to immediately produce evidence that the storage out of the EU meets all EU regulations. Frankly this looks like protectionism to me too but I am not clear why this hurdle did not apply to the government.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
Of course Howard polled 33% in 2005 which was barely any change from the 34% the Tories were on with IDS in his final poll as leader so changing leaders does not always bring a net benefit. Indeed none of the alternatives to May poll any better which partly explains why she is still there.
If there is to be a vote of no confidence, certainly before Brexit, this time Davis would be likely to become Tory leader.0 -
F1: post-race ramble:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/mexico-post-race-analysis-2017.html
Very close now between 6th and 8th in the Constructors', just six points in it. Dire race for Renault. Could've easily had 20 odd points, ended up with zero.0 -
And those that are regretted or did not produce enough quid for the quo can very easily morph into allegations of harassment now.OldKingCole said:
I can believe the Faustian bargains bit. Maybe later some of them were regretted! Or not wholly kept and there’s some buyers regret!NickPalmer said:
Alan Clark set a high bar for sexual misconduct, but Mrs T shrugged it off. To some ecxtent I think most PMs make a judgment in which loyalty, embarrassment and value of the Minister all play a part. That said. I'm not clear why Clark was rated highly by her - an interesting character and good on animals, but otherwise...OldKingCole said:
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.
The public is pretty cynical about all this and I doubt if it affects voting very much ("they're all at it"), unless it reaches the criminal levels of child abuse, rape, or comparable behaviour. Doesn't mean that Parliament shouldn't address it properly.
FWIW, I asked my assistant of 13 years, who socialised more than I did, whether she'd ever encountered harassment. She said no, there were quite a few consensual high jinks going on, with some Faustian bargains between ambitious aides and lecherous politicians, but she never saw or encountered any actual harassment.0 -
Morning! I have a hangover today, well done LewisMorris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: grargh. Early tips were green, race weekend ones red. A bet I had on Hamilton for the title should've paid out, and Bottas has also won the tip I made pre-season (top 3 at effectively 4/1).
The silly and tiny stakes bets I had on Ocon/Sainz/Hulkenberg to be top 2 (1001 to win each way) came closer than I thought. Force India were unlucky/screwed up their pit stop timing. If they'd done that better to keep Ocon ahead of Raikkonen and Verstappen's engine had gone, it would've come off.
Obviously that's two extra contingencies, but the odds on those things both happening at not over 300/1.
Will set about the analysis now.
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Next up, not as crap as Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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IDS was also not as crap as Hague (much though I admire the latter's oratory)TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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O/T: quite a good discussion of traditional English patriotism vs the more bombastic modern kind:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/30/irony-english-brexit-britain-identity-politics0 -
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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Canadian CGI was one of the developers although I think the work was done by an American subsidiary they'd bought. I believe it is hosted in American datacentres (and not involving CGI).kle4 said:
I thought major parts of Obama care IT data provision were underage by a Canadian company , but I could be very wrong about that, but I thought i remember surprise a major government contract on that went to non amercans.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
Plus comes out as gay, the most unsurprising revelation of the decadeFrancisUrquhart said:Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-417990260 -
Mr. Sandpit, shame about reliability failures coming into it, though.
Actually, that's happened every season of the hybrid era except 2015. But it's still a bit rubbish.
Next year could be very good, especially if Renault improve their game. If they do, we might have four teams capable of regularly winning races.0 -
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7 is though.CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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US cloud companies (the big ones) have datacentres in Europe.DavidL said:
The story is a little surprising because we have been told that the Data Commissioner requires privileged information to be stored in the EU unless you are able to immediately produce evidence that the storage out of the EU meets all EU regulations. Frankly this looks like protectionism to me too but I am not clear why this hurdle did not apply to the government.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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It is the winner of the next general election who will have to deal with the consequences of Brexit, the winner of the last general election just had to negotiate it and any FTA and transitionswing_voter said:TM's legacy will be fascinating to pick over when the time comes, she possibly wont even write a memoir. I'm not sure any Tory could do any better at holding the party steady(ish) at what is probably their most difficult period in government since the Maastricht votes and Major's dwindling majority of the mid 1990s.
I cant remember who said it, but this was probably the election not to win - I cant see any governing party being thanked by the electorate in say 4-5 years time.
A trigger event is what is needed for the Tories to commit regicide.....no idea what it will be though. Shapps's bumbling attempt a few weeks ago means the next one will be ruthless and sudden, then again TM whilst walking on Boxing Day may just decide she's had enough...I know if I was in my 60s running the country the idea just seems a nightmare(then again look at HRH)0 -
Then, not as emotionally constipated as Brown.DavidL said:
Next up, not as crap as Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
Ok, that's not a goer..0 -
Not true, IDS actually saw the Tories lead some yougov polls in 2003 after the Iraq invasionTheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
IDS' final poll as leader was for Mori on 28th October 2003 it had the Tories on 35%, Labour on 38% and the LDs on 21%
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical-polls/voting-intention-2001-20050 -
There’s a half written thread on the PB server which says she’s worse than Neville Chamberlain.DavidL said:
Next up, not as crap as Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
Can you guess who wrote it?0 -
Ah, but if HMG used (or even established and later privatised) a UK equivalent, there would be.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.
One reason American companies do so well is that often they have hidden support from the government in their early stages. Elon Musk has raised the bar in space travel and electric cars but Uncle Sam is signing his cheques. We should look and learn.0 -
Nah, Tom daly coming out has to win that....so much so I didn’t even know he was even in the closet when he came out.HYUFD said:
Plus comes out as gay, the most unsurprising revelation of the decadeFrancisUrquhart said:Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-417990260 -
IDS did better than expected at the local elections. The idea that Howard saved the Tories in 2005 is a classic example of history being written by the victors.TheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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As I said the other day, there’s going to need to be a very fine line drawn between getting rid of perverts, allowing due process for allegations and a witch hunt.swing_voter said:
I must admit, it could be very helpful for TM if a certain Cabinet Minister was "named" so to speak......rottenborough said:morning all,
Could we see a reshuffle within days? Telegraph reporting it is an "open secret" that two Cabinet ministers are involved in sexual harassment allegations.
The reason Weinstein was taken down was because of multiple allegations from unconnected women, it would need something similar to take down a Cabinet minister.0 -
Second then, though teenage girls liked Tom DalyFrancisUrquhart said:
Nah, Tom daly coming out has to win that....so much so I didn’t even know he was even in the closet when he came out.HYUFD said:
Plus comes out as gay, the most unsurprising revelation of the decadeFrancisUrquhart said:Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-417990260 -
Exactly IDS won the 2003 local elections with 35% to 30% for Labour and 27% for the LDsDecrepitJohnL said:
IDS did better than expected at the local elections. The idea that Howard saved the Tories in 2005 is a classic example of history being written by the victors.TheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_20030 -
There were polls that had the Tories tied and just 2% ahead of the Lib Dems the month before IDS was toppled.HYUFD said:
Not true, IDS actually saw the Tories lead some yougov polls in 2003 after the Iraq invasionTheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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If only someone on PB had warned that Mrs May was a poor man’s Gordon Brown.Theuniondivvie said:
Then, not as emotionally constipated as Brown.DavidL said:
Next up, not as crap as Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
Ok, that's not a goer..0 -
I rather thought were were already facing the UK`s biggest ever economic disaster... 100% home-made by the Conservative Party.MarqueeMark said:Theresa May is safe until a) she decides she's had enough or b) Brexit looks like it will have an OK resolution. Otherwise, why would you agitiate to get the top job - and walk straight into a kicking from the voters? Being remembered as the shortest ever PM who let in Jeremy Corbyn - and consequently, facilitated the UK's biggest ever economic disaster - hardly an attractive epitaph is it, Boris?
Theresa May: on and on..... Nailed on.
Do you mean that things will get even worse if Corbyn becomes PM?0 -
Quite right, but it would certainly "wing" any potential leadership bids with even the slightest hint of sexual misbehaviour or scandal. I know of one or two who already have history in this area....I cant help but feel May's letter to Bercow is distancing her already from any need for loyalty etcSandpit said:
As I said the other day, there’s going to need to be a very fine line drawn between getting rid of perverts, allowing due process for allegations and a witch hunt.swing_voter said:
I must admit, it could be very helpful for TM if a certain Cabinet Minister was "named" so to speak......rottenborough said:morning all,
Could we see a reshuffle within days? Telegraph reporting it is an "open secret" that two Cabinet ministers are involved in sexual harassment allegations.
The reason Weinstein was taken down was because of multiple allegations from unconnected women, it would need something similar to take down a Cabinet minister.0 -
Ironically one of those polls had the Tories ahead of Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were polls that had the Tories tied and just 2% ahead of the Lib Dems the month before IDS was toppled.HYUFD said:
Not true, IDS actually saw the Tories lead some yougov polls in 2003 after the Iraq invasionTheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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There was one ICM in September 2003 which had the Tories and Labour and LDs tied on 31% each.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were polls that had the Tories tied and just 2% ahead of the Lib Dems the month before IDS was toppled.HYUFD said:
Not true, IDS actually saw the Tories lead some yougov polls in 2003 after the Iraq invasionTheScreamingEagles said:
Had IDS led the Tory party in 2005 it is possible we could have finished third in the popular vote.MikeSmithson said:
But IDS never lost the Tories their majority after calling an unnecessary general election.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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It's hardly surprising. There are going to be lots of stories coming out, with abuse and lesser offences in all directions - i.e. not just against women. The really amazing thing is that anyone's surprised given the famous casting-couch culture.FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41799026
I daresay someone will be along soon to say the victims should have become hairdressers if they didn't want to be felt up by the talent ...0 -
Steady on....whatever next...
Saudi Arabia to allow women into sports stadiums
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-417984810 -
I'm all for the government providing that kind of support to promising early-stage companies here, I just don't think trying to create a PaaS competitior to Amazon and Microsoft would be a clever example of that.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ah, but if HMG used (or even established and later privatised) a UK equivalent, there would be.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.
One reason American companies do so well is that often they have hidden support from the government in their early stages. Elon Musk has raised the bar in space travel and electric cars but Uncle Sam is signing his cheques. We should look and learn.
And to be honest, it's always going to only be one part of the story. If we want to replicate what the US has, we'd need to get venture capital flowing as freely here as it does in Silicon Valley0 -
And present a nasty problem for the other half of the bargain...... 'he promised me the party would find me a safe seat.....'DavidL said:
And those that are regretted or did not produce enough quid for the quo can very easily morph into allegations of harassment now.OldKingCole said:
I can believe the Faustian bargains bit. Maybe later some of them were regretted! Or not wholly kept and there’s some buyers regret!NickPalmer said:
Alan Clark set a high bar for sexual misconduct, but Mrs T shrugged it off. To some ecxtent I think most PMs make a judgment in which loyalty, embarrassment and value of the Minister all play a part. That said. I'm not clear why Clark was rated highly by her - an interesting character and good on animals, but otherwise...OldKingCole said:
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.
The public is pretty cynical about all this and I doubt if it affects voting very much ("they're all at it"), unless it reaches the criminal levels of child abuse, rape, or comparable behaviour. Doesn't mean that Parliament shouldn't address it properly.
FWIW, I asked my assistant of 13 years, who socialised more than I did, whether she'd ever encountered harassment. She said no, there were quite a few consensual high jinks going on, with some Faustian bargains between ambitious aides and lecherous politicians, but she never saw or encountered any actual harassment.
'No I didn’t I promised her I’d try to get the party ........’
Requires some official to come forward and say, yes X MP lobbied for a safe seat for his PA (or something)
Which doesn’t rebound to anyone’s credit.
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Yeah.....really catchy......so is Never Made PM.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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Did he solve another murder in Oxford? Nice one. Mind, I think Hathaway is a much more interesting character.Sandpit said:
Morning! I have a hangover today, well done LewisMorris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: grargh. Early tips were green, race weekend ones red. A bet I had on Hamilton for the title should've paid out, and Bottas has also won the tip I made pre-season (top 3 at effectively 4/1).
The silly and tiny stakes bets I had on Ocon/Sainz/Hulkenberg to be top 2 (1001 to win each way) came closer than I thought. Force India were unlucky/screwed up their pit stop timing. If they'd done that better to keep Ocon ahead of Raikkonen and Verstappen's engine had gone, it would've come off.
Obviously that's two extra contingencies, but the odds on those things both happening at not over 300/1.
Will set about the analysis now.0 -
Faustian bargains? That makes it sound nice and harmless. It's not. Not only does this sort of behaviour unfairly disadvantage those who are not prepared to offer sexual favours for promotion, it is also hardly proper use of taxpayer-funded expenses. At least Satan wasn't using public funds to buy his souls!NickPalmer said:
Alan Clark set a high bar for sexual misconduct, but Mrs T shrugged it off. To some ecxtent I think most PMs make a judgment in which loyalty, embarrassment and value of the Minister all play a part. That said. I'm not clear why Clark was rated highly by her - an interesting character and good on animals, but otherwise...OldKingCole said:
I suspect Prescot is an example of the Peter principle.... promoted just above his abilities. To be fair, though, I don’t recall the Temple shenanigans as non-consensual, although I don’t think Prescot was ever going to leave Pauline.ydoethur said:
Who was also, in some quite significant ways, rather a sick man.OldKingCole said:When compaing withn Eden, Eden was a very sick man. However he did leave an unexpected legacy. he encouraged John Prescot to go intom pol;itics!
I wonder what would have happened to him if the Temple shenanigans had come up in today's climate? Although the same could be said with rather more force about Cecil Parkinson.
And Parkinson’s playing away did significantly affect his career.
The public is pretty cynical about all this and I doubt if it affects voting very much ("they're all at it"), unless it reaches the criminal levels of child abuse, rape, or comparable behaviour. Doesn't mean that Parliament shouldn't address it properly.
FWIW, I asked my assistant of 13 years, who socialised more than I did, whether she'd ever encountered harassment. She said no, there were quite a few consensual high jinks going on, with some Faustian bargains between ambitious aides and lecherous politicians, but she never saw or encountered any actual harassment.0 -
Morning all
Plaudits I suppose to Theresa May - my recollection of 2003 was it wasn't the Conference Speech that did for IDS (and the poll quoted by HYUFD was taken after the LD Conference that year and before the Labour and Conservative gatherings) but the Brent East by election which saw the Conservative vote squeezed as the anti-Iraq War vote coalesced to the LDs.
Apart from Blair, IDS was probably the most pro-war politician. The Conservatives could see anti-war votes draining away and their prospects of making serious inroads into the Labour majority fading as well. IDS therefore had to go and preferably without a contest.
Howard moved the Party focus onto more domestic affairs and shored up the core vote ensuring that while the 2005 GE was still a heavy defeat, it removed once and for all the prospect of an LD Government and re-established the Conservatives as the alternative Government.
We have discussed on here what might have happened had IDS remained Conservative leader to the 2005 GE. I believe it entirely plausible he would have won fewer seats than Hague.0 -
Not sure "Congratulations" is appropriate. May must wake up channelling Janine off the Ghostbusters thinking "I've quit better jobs than this"0
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Yet. He’s still a young man. He’s 46.CarlottaVance said:
Yeah.....really catchy......so is Never Made PM.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
0 -
Sugartitsgate is the perfect dead cat for May to distract everyone's attention from the Brexit negotiations.
Expect more to come out on budget day.0 -
If that's the criteria you use, then vast numbers of ambitious politicians also fail. Many of whom would probably have been better than those who did become PM.CarlottaVance said:
Yeah.....really catchy......so is Never Made PM.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
0 -
So, those Spanish flag waving, swastika tatooed sieg heilers not representative of Spain in general.
https://twitter.com/lizcastro/status/9249218145807155200 -
Mr. Divvie, that does seem a good way forward, and maybe the only way to settle things properly. But who's speaking for those who want such a vote?
The Spanish Government is all about crushing dissent. The Catalan Government is all about independence.0 -
Not working out so well for others.SandyRentool said:Sugartitsgate is the perfect dead cat for May to distract everyone's attention from the Brexit negotiations.
Expect more to come out on budget day.
https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/9247726750876876800 -
A I showed earlier IDS' final poll as leader had the Tories on 35% and Hague got 31% and Howard got 33% so arguably he may have done slightly better than Howard rather than worse than Hague.stodge said:Morning all
Plaudits I suppose to Theresa May - my recollection of 2003 was it wasn't the Conference Speech that did for IDS (and the poll quoted by HYUFD was taken after the LD Conference that year and before the Labour and Conservative gatherings) but the Brent East by election which saw the Conservative vote squeezed as the anti-Iraq War vote coalesced to the LDs.
Apart from Blair, IDS was probably the most pro-war politician. The Conservatives could see anti-war votes draining away and their prospects of making serious inroads into the Labour majority fading as well. IDS therefore had to go and preferably without a contest.
Howard moved the Party focus onto more domestic affairs and shored up the core vote ensuring that while the 2005 GE was still a heavy defeat, it removed once and for all the prospect of an LD Government and re-established the Conservatives as the alternative Government.
We have discussed on here what might have happened had IDS remained Conservative leader to the 2005 GE. I believe it entirely plausible he would have won fewer seats than Hague.
Brent East did for him but the Tories still came third there in 2005 under Howard (their candidate was Kwasi Kwarteng)0 -
Success in politics cannot be defined as making it to PM,not least because most people who get there make a hash of it and leave with their reputation diminished.0
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And he's busy burning bridges.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Yet. He’s still a young man. He’s 46.CarlottaVance said:
Yeah.....really catchy......so is Never Made PM.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
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It's an interesting set of figures - what would be the agreed terms of a successful referendum ? 50 %+1 of all those voting on an agreed turnout or all those eligible to vote - is the electorate restricted only to those currently resident in Catalonia or would it include Catalonians residing elsewhere ?Theuniondivvie said:So, those Spanish flag waving, swastika tatooed sieg heilers not representative of Spain in general.
https://twitter.com/lizcastro/status/924921814580715520
Does all this sound familiar ?
I presume IF Catalonia does vote in a "negotiated" referendum to break away, it will be much harder for the rest of Spain and the EU to ignore.
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Maybe but they don't warrant that is where your data is going to be held. Of course the government is a rather more important client than me....DecrepitJohnL said:
US cloud companies (the big ones) have datacentres in Europe.DavidL said:
The story is a little surprising because we have been told that the Data Commissioner requires privileged information to be stored in the EU unless you are able to immediately produce evidence that the storage out of the EU meets all EU regulations. Frankly this looks like protectionism to me too but I am not clear why this hurdle did not apply to the government.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.0 -
You? Dodgy historical analogy, its got all the traits.TheScreamingEagles said:
There’s a half written thread on the PB server which says she’s worse than Neville Chamberlain.DavidL said:
Next up, not as crap as Eden.TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
Can you guess who wrote it?0 -
Iglesias & Podemos seem to be the only ones approaching holding that view in rEsp, though it doesn't seem to be doing them much good in the polls. PSOE are cravenly taking the same nationalist strong arm line as Rajoy & PP.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Divvie, that does seem a good way forward, and maybe the only way to settle things properly. But who's speaking for those who want such a vote?
The Spanish Government is all about crushing dissent. The Catalan Government is all about independence.0 -
Mr. Divvie, that's a shame, but cheers for that info.0
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I still think the most interesting stories are those that haven’t come out - those of the A-list actresses and models who enthusiastically embraced the casting couch and have been introducing their young friends to the likes of Harvey Weinstein and Terry Richardson. Will they ever be considered part of the problem?JosiasJessop said:
It's hardly surprising. There are going to be lots of stories coming out, with abuse and lesser offences in all directions - i.e. not just against women. The really amazing thing is that anyone's surprised given the famous casting-couch culture.FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey.....
Kevin Spacey apologises over Anthony Rapp 'sexual advance' claim
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41799026
I daresay someone will be along soon to say the victims should have become hairdressers if they didn't want to be felt up by the talent ...0 -
Quite.JosiasJessop said:
If that's the criteria you use, then vast numbers of ambitious politicians also fail. Many of whom would probably have been better than those who did become PM.CarlottaVance said:
Yeah.....really catchy......so is Never Made PM.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Most successful Finance Minister of the G7CarlottaVance said:
'Edited a Freesheet' is not a great one either.....TheScreamingEagles said:She’s not as crap as IDS, what an epitaph.
That clinging on, out of a 'sense of duty' - which one might also see as self-deluded bloody mindedness - should automatically be deemed a desirable thing seems rather strange to me.
On that score, the latest evidence of May's decision making timidity/incompetence ... it appears from reading the press this morning that she is going to neuter Hammond's house building drive which he'd wanted to announce in the budget.0 -
One of the few I’ve come across who left Parliament with his reputation high was Harold Wilson’s Minister of Health, Kenneth RobinsonJonathan said:Success in politics cannot be defined as making it to PM,not least because most people who get there make a hash of it and leave with their reputation diminished.
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US government contracts specify that data servers must be physically located within the USA.DavidL said:
Maybe but they don't warrant that is where your data is going to be held. Of course the government is a rather more important client than me....DecrepitJohnL said:
US cloud companies (the big ones) have datacentres in Europe.DavidL said:
The story is a little surprising because we have been told that the Data Commissioner requires privileged information to be stored in the EU unless you are able to immediately produce evidence that the storage out of the EU meets all EU regulations. Frankly this looks like protectionism to me too but I am not clear why this hurdle did not apply to the government.Stereotomy said:
I'm guessing none because the market leaders are all American companies.DecrepitJohnL said:The Times front page has a story about a government IT director buying Amazon cloud services and then going to work for them. The Times worries (so far as I can see because it is paywalled) about revolving door rules but there is another, unasked question.
How many US government services are hosted by British providers? I'm guessing the answer is none because of national security masking protectionism. That is a lesson our government (of either party) needs to learn.
UK givernment is not allowed to do the same, they’re only allowed to specify that data is stored within the EU. Maybe your data’s in a Romanian data centre where those who monitor quality are paid off and those in charge earn €300 a month.0 -
F1: blimey. Betfair already has the 2018 title markets up.
Not really got going yet. Put down 230 for Alonso.
Interestingly, Ladbrokes, which also has a market, has McLaren and Renault drivers shorter than Force India. It's a shame the latter don't have a bit more cash.
I think it's too soon for Renault. They need a bit more time, in my view. None of the Ladbrokes odds tempt me at the moment.
Edited extra bit: I should clarify, those are the odds, not my stake, on Alonso
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I think the electorate need to take a little of the responsibility ?PClipp said:
I rather thought were were already facing the UK`s biggest ever economic disaster... 100% home-made by the Conservative Party...MarqueeMark said:Theresa May is safe until a) she decides she's had enough or b) Brexit looks like it will have an OK resolution. Otherwise, why would you agitiate to get the top job - and walk straight into a kicking from the voters? Being remembered as the shortest ever PM who let in Jeremy Corbyn - and consequently, facilitated the UK's biggest ever economic disaster - hardly an attractive epitaph is it, Boris?
Theresa May: on and on..... Nailed on.
No good voting for Brexit and then complaining, should it kill growth for a few years (though it's entirely fair to say the current lot are making a horlicks of the negotiations with the EU). And you can't entirely blame the government for the continuing rise in household debt.0 -
I thought Herr Hulkenburg was notoriously tall, MrD .... ?Morris_Dancer said:F1: blimey. Betfair already has the 2018 title markets up.
Not really got going yet. Put down 230 for Alonso.
Interestingly, Ladbrokes, which also has a market, has McLaren and Renault drivers shorter than Force India....
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Jonathan said:
Success in politics cannot be defined as making it to PM,not least because most people who get there make a hash of it and leave with their reputation diminished.
Yes - Eden might have had a reputation as one of the great might-have-beens, had he not actually been PM...0
