I know politics is showbiz for ugly people, but has there ever been a weirder looking political crew (from Don down) than the Trump lot? Manafort resembles one of the aliens wearing a human suit from Men in Black.
Why is it 'devastating for May'? She is probably about the most personally upstanding in her personal life of the lot and these allegations will go back through the Cameron years and maybe beyond and cover Labour MPs and LDs too if the reports are anything to go by
For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.
Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.
Cameron obviously knew about it too, Corbyn clearly knew about cases on the Labour side as well in all likelihood as identified by John Mann.
There were plenty of people in parliament and the wider media who 'knew' about Lord McAlpine's alleged transgressions. He suffered more than a decade of nudge-nudge, wink-wink behind his back, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
The problem, whether sexual shenanigans or sexual misdemeanours, is that too many of our politicians are utterly unprofessional. And this creates a culture where only people who are willing to put up with this unprofessionalism, or are willing to take part in it, become politicians.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
3/1 an election next year? Looks too short for me but this is very volatile stuff.
IDS all thinks we're headed for an early election too, but for different reasons.
Theresa May was threatened with a snap general election today if she is defeated by Parliament on her Brexit deal.
Tory right wingers raised the “nuclear threat” of a forced election in what was seen as an attempt to see off calls to empower the Commons to amend the deal or call for fresh negotiations.
Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader and leading Brexit-backer, said it would be on “a confidence issue” and defeat would make the Government “head towards” a general election.
“It will be the most important vote of the entire Parliament and if the Government loses it you head towards that conclusion,” he told the Evening Standard.
Mrs May is aiming to hammer out a leaving deal with the EU by October or November next year.
Tory right wingers raised the “nuclear threat” of a forced election in what was seen as an attempt to see off calls to empower the Commons to amend the deal or call for fresh negotiations.
They really are stupid enough to think their influence will be improved by forcing an election, aren't they ? I always thought IDS a bit thick, but this takes the biscuit.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move to increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
In some respects decade becoming more socially liberal, in terms of any expression of sexuality without clear consent, including just touching, rather less so.
I expect that there are quite a few men in the public eye who are feeling rather nervous today.
We’re going on a bear witch hunt. I’m not scared.
Personally, if I'd made a drunken pass at a 14 year old boy in my bedroom, I think I'd remember it even at 30 years' distance.
Unless it was a not-uncommon event.......I think it's fair to say that in seeking to dig himself out of one hole, Mr Spacey has dug himself another one.....
I wish they'd stick to politicians and leave talented thespians out of this witch-hunt
So the talented thespian who complained of Spacey's behaviour when he was 14 years old should have kept his mouth shut?
I expect worst things happen to most fourteen year old boys than being propositioned by a famous actor or actress. And If he wanted an interesting story to tell his chums he'd got one.
It is an odd story.
Who lets a 14 year old unchaperoned stay at a drunken party?
Nothing new about predatory behaviour in this context.
3/1 an election next year? Looks too short for me but this is very volatile stuff.
IDS all thinks we're headed for an early election too, but for different reasons.
Theresa May was threatened with a snap general election today if she is defeated by Parliament on her Brexit deal.
Tory right wingers raised the “nuclear threat” of a forced election in what was seen as an attempt to see off calls to empower the Commons to amend the deal or call for fresh negotiations.
Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader and leading Brexit-backer, said it would be on “a confidence issue” and defeat would make the Government “head towards” a general election.
“It will be the most important vote of the entire Parliament and if the Government loses it you head towards that conclusion,” he told the Evening Standard.
Mrs May is aiming to hammer out a leaving deal with the EU by October or November next year.
Tory right wingers raised the “nuclear threat” of a forced election in what was seen as an attempt to see off calls to empower the Commons to amend the deal or call for fresh negotiations.
They really are stupid enough to think their influence will be improved by forcing an election, aren't they ? I always thought IDS a bit thick, but this takes the biscuit.
It's going all Morton's Fork for May.
If the Government agrees an outline deal with the EU and Parliament rejects it then new elections are likely and if that leads to a Corbyn government then Corbyn would have to try and negotiate with the EU again
When I first met her about ten years ago she told me of the widespread male chauvinism in the world of cartoons. I was sceptical, and thought she maybe had a bit of a chip on her shoulder. Over the years I came to reverse that opinion through direct experience of what seems a small world dominated by the kind of male clique that I'd thought had pretty much died out.
On the evidence of the article, it will be some time before it does die out.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move towards increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Is it really about prudery ? Certainly those (for example Peter Hitchens), who hark back to a more 'Victorian' set of social standards are on board with that - but at base this is surely about simple respect for others ? Demanding that from those in positions of power or responsibility is hardly prudery.
I expect that there are quite a few men in the public eye who are feeling rather nervous today.
We’re going on a bear witch hunt. I’m not scared.
Personally, if I'd made a drunken pass at a 14 year old boy in my bedroom, I think I'd remember it even at 30 years' distance.
Unless it was a not-uncommon event.......I think it's fair to say that in seeking to dig himself out of one hole, Mr Spacey has dug himself another one.....
I wish they'd stick to politicians and leave talented thespians out of this witch-hunt
So the talented thespian who complained of Spacey's behaviour when he was 14 years old should have kept his mouth shut?
I expect worst things happen to most fourteen year old boys than being propositioned by a famous actor or actress. And If he wanted an interesting story to tell his chums he'd got one.
It is an odd story.
Who lets a 14 year old unchaperoned stay at a drunken party?
Nothing new about predatory behaviour in this context.
It is - I knew plenty of people of that age in the 60s who gained access to all sorts of illicit places and activities - as no doubt many do now. Not sure I'm very enamoured of this new 'morality' we're experiencing. 'Back to basics' under Major backfired badly. We seem to have another press feeding frenzy on the issue which is somewhat amusing given their own predilections.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
I hope MPs are taking the necessary Cyber-security precautions
Hacking tends to bring to mind compromised bank accounts or infiltrated government security systems, not anything as salacious as a dildo. But yesterday, the scientist Ben Goldacre alerted me to the practice of “screwdriving” – short-distance sex-toy hacking.
It might sound far-fetched, but the bluetooth low energy (BLE) networking protocol that “smart” sex toys often use can be compromised relatively easily, as demonstrated by security consultant Alex Lomas, who wandered the streets of Berlin taking control of Lovense Hush buttplugs.
I am a natural tech evangelist, but I fear I am fast becoming the voice of internet doom in my increasingly desperate attempts to make the government wake up to its threats as well as its opportunities. So I wonder if it is finally this, walk-by dildo hacking, that will make people sit up and take notice?
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move towards increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Is it really about prudery ? Certainly those (for example Peter Hitchens), who hark back to a more 'Victorian' set of social standards are on board with that - but at base this is surely about simple respect for others ? Demanding that from those in positions of power or responsibility is hardly prudery.
Whether it's a good thing or not, it's a big change in attitudes over the last twenty years or even less. Judging incidents of the 1990s by the much stricter standards of 2017 makes no sense.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move towards increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Is it really about prudery ? Certainly those (for example Peter Hitchens), who hark back to a more 'Victorian' set of social standards are on board with that - but at base this is surely about simple respect for others ? Demanding that from those in positions of power or responsibility is hardly prudery.
Yes of course but the press want resignations, beatings, hangings from this - the level of over-reaction intended or otherwise is already in train.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
I think you are wrong - there is a strong consensus among all the parties that the law must be upheld. Also many of the headlines are massively exaggerating what is so far a fairly measured response.
Why is it 'devastating for May'? She is probably about the most personally upstanding in her personal life of the lot and these allegations will go back through the Cameron years and maybe beyond and cover Labour MPs and LDs too if the reports are anything to go by
For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.
Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.
Cameron obviously knew about it too, Corbyn clearly knew about cases on the Labour side as well in all likelihood as identified by John Mann.
There were plenty of people in parliament and the wider media who 'knew' about Lord McAlpine's alleged transgressions. He suffered more than a decade of nudge-nudge, wink-wink behind his back, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
The problem, whether sexual shenanigans or sexual misdemeanours, is that too many of our politicians are utterly unprofessional. And this creates a culture where only people who are willing to put up with this unprofessionalism, or are willing to take part in it, become politicians.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
Guilty of what?
Unlike sexual assault, sexual harassment is not a crime, and there is no objective standard of proof. In fact, it is something that appears to be entirely identified by victims, and their experiences seem to be beyond scrutiny. It is something that once accused of, you can never refute. I know that a lot of serious, unacceptable stuff has happened, but it is in everyones interests to work within the framework of the law. Otherwise you just have chaos.
Why is it 'devastating for May'? She is probably about the most personally upstanding in her personal life of the lot and these allegations will go back through the Cameron years and maybe beyond and cover Labour MPs and LDs too if the reports are anything to go by
For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.
Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.
Cameron obviously knew about it too, Corbyn clearly knew about cases on the Labour side as well in all likelihood as identified by John Mann.
There were plenty of people in parliament and the wider media who 'knew' about Lord McAlpine's alleged transgressions. He suffered more than a decade of nudge-nudge, wink-wink behind his back, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
The problem, whether sexual shenanigans or sexual misdemeanours, is that too many of our politicians are utterly unprofessional. And this creates a culture where only people who are willing to put up with this unprofessionalism, or are willing to take part in it, become politicians.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
Guilty of what?
Unlike sexual assault, sexual harassment is not a crime, and there is no objective standard of proof. In fact, it is something that appears to be entirely identified by victims, and their experiences seem to be beyond scrutiny. It is something that once accused of, you can never refute. I know that a lot of serious, unacceptable stuff has happened, but it is in everyones interests to work within the framework of the law. Otherwise you just have chaos.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
The Generalissimo abolished the Generalitat de Catalunya in 1939 and it wasn't restored until 1977, after his death. Appropriate actions by the Spanish government can ensure that the possibility of Catalan independence is squashed for several generations.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move towards increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Is it really about prudery ? Certainly those (for example Peter Hitchens), who hark back to a more 'Victorian' set of social standards are on board with that - but at base this is surely about simple respect for others ? Demanding that from those in positions of power or responsibility is hardly prudery.
Whether it's a good thing or not, it's a big change in attitudes over the last twenty years or even less. Judging incidents of the 1990s by the much stricter standards of 2017 makes no sense.
I was recently watching Oasis videos from the 1990's on youtube. 'Get yer tits out for the lads' etc etc. I can't see that going down well nowadays.
I expect that there are quite a few men in the public eye who are feeling rather nervous today.
We’re going on a bear witch hunt. I’m not scared.
Personally, if I'd made a drunken pass at a 14 year old boy in my bedroom, I think I'd remember it even at 30 years' distance.
Unless it was a not-uncommon event.......I think it's fair to say that in seeking to dig himself out of one hole, Mr Spacey has dug himself another one.....
I wish they'd stick to politicians and leave talented thespians out of this witch-hunt
So the talented thespian who complained of Spacey's behaviour when he was 14 years old should have kept his mouth shut?
I expect worst things happen to most fourteen year old boys than being propositioned by a famous actor or actress. And If he wanted an interesting story to tell his chums he'd got one.
It is an odd story.
Who lets a 14 year old unchaperoned stay at a drunken party?
Nothing new about predatory behaviour in this context.
It is - I knew plenty of people of that age in the 60s who gained access to all sorts of illicit places and activities - as no doubt many do now. Not sure I'm very enamoured of this new 'morality' we're experiencing. 'Back to basics' under Major backfired badly. We seem to have another press feeding frenzy on the issue which is somewhat amusing given their own predilections.
Quite. Anyone at Westminster who did not know that the whips keep records of sexual and other misdemeanors by MPs must have been asleep for the past few decades.
I think the audience reaction to Gove's comment on the today programme is much more representative of public attitudes to these issues than the hypocritical outrage in the media.
Garnier's behaviour is that of an egotistical pr*ck but it is not criminal and should not be a resignation issue IMO.
I hope MPs are taking the necessary Cyber-security precautions
Hacking tends to bring to mind compromised bank accounts or infiltrated government security systems, not anything as salacious as a dildo. But yesterday, the scientist Ben Goldacre alerted me to the practice of “screwdriving” – short-distance sex-toy hacking.
It might sound far-fetched, but the bluetooth low energy (BLE) networking protocol that “smart” sex toys often use can be compromised relatively easily, as demonstrated by security consultant Alex Lomas, who wandered the streets of Berlin taking control of Lovense Hush buttplugs.
I am a natural tech evangelist, but I fear I am fast becoming the voice of internet doom in my increasingly desperate attempts to make the government wake up to its threats as well as its opportunities. So I wonder if it is finally this, walk-by dildo hacking, that will make people sit up and take notice?
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Are there any where there haven't?
A lot of this is the secular move to increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Yes, I agree with that.
Secular puritanism. Right across the anglophile world.
Religious prudery, sans religion.
The neverending societal renegotiation of what constitutes consent.
Society is in flux.
*anglophone
This observation from mad John mcaffee seems somehow relevant to the debate, too;
"Society cannot function if everyone knows everything about everyone else," McAfee sagely noted, explaining that if two parties have contradictory beliefs it is a natural human instinct to try and settle those differences, which leads to conflict. If those parties are unaware of their differing beliefs, however, this conflict has no room in which to take place. It is, in McAfee's view, essential for civilisation: "Privacy creates a barrier through which conflict is stifled”
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
If troops are deployed to the streets of Barcelona then I think that's pretty much the end of the EU I think.
'I could be in No 10 by Christmas' Jeremy Corbyn insists he can oust Theresa May.
"GLOATING Jeremy Corbyn today insisted that he could be prime minister by Christmas."
Can we bet on that?
He does know that the DUP abstaining gives the Tories a majority of the MPs who take their seats?
Even if there was a GE there isn't much time to get it done this year.
Old news alert!...
You guys are all missing the fact that the Express article is dated 11th June 2017 !!
It shows how far JC was from reality if he thought the Cons would self destruct.
The guy is thick, clueless and his ego has ballooned out of control.
The Tories are desperately hanging together as they have realised that is just what might happen to them if they don't.....
Some hard right Conservative MPs will need to ponder carefully whether they would prefer their version of Brexit with Jeremy Corbyn in power or whether they would prefer to settle for a softer Brexit with a better chance of keeping him out.
I expect that there are quite a few men in the public eye who are feeling rather nervous today.
We’re going on a bear witch hunt. I’m not scared.
Personally, if I'd made a drunken pass at a 14 year old boy in my bedroom, I think I'd remember it even at 30 years' distance.
Unless it was a not-uncommon event.......I think it's fair to say that in seeking to dig himself out of one hole, Mr Spacey has dug himself another one.....
I wish they'd stick to politicians and leave talented thespians out of this witch-hunt
So the talented thespian who complained of Spacey's behaviour when he was 14 years old should have kept his mouth shut?
I expect worst things happen to most fourteen year old boys than being propositioned by a famous actor or actress. And If he wanted an interesting story to tell his chums he'd got one.
It is an odd story.
Who lets a 14 year old unchaperoned stay at a drunken party?
Nothing new about predatory behaviour in this context.
It is - I knew plenty of people of that age in the 60s who gained access to all sorts of illicit places and activities - as no doubt many do now. Not sure I'm very enamoured of this new 'morality' we're experiencing. 'Back to basics' under Major backfired badly. We seem to have another press feeding frenzy on the issue which is somewhat amusing given their own predilections.
Quite. Anyone at Westminster who did not know that the whips keep records of sexual and other misdemeanors by MPs must have been asleep for the past few decades.
I think the audience reaction to Gove's comment on the today programme is much more representative of public attitudes to these issues than the hypocritical outrage in the media.
Garnier's behaviour is that of an egotistical pr*ck but it is not criminal and should not be a resignation issue IMO.
Trying to guess what the silent majority think is fraught with difficulty. It is only about 1% of the population who express any opinions on controversial issues in public, everything is too toxic.
I hope MPs are taking the necessary Cyber-security precautions
Hacking tends to bring to mind compromised bank accounts or infiltrated government security systems, not anything as salacious as a dildo. But yesterday, the scientist Ben Goldacre alerted me to the practice of “screwdriving” – short-distance sex-toy hacking.
It might sound far-fetched, but the bluetooth low energy (BLE) networking protocol that “smart” sex toys often use can be compromised relatively easily, as demonstrated by security consultant Alex Lomas, who wandered the streets of Berlin taking control of Lovense Hush buttplugs.
I am a natural tech evangelist, but I fear I am fast becoming the voice of internet doom in my increasingly desperate attempts to make the government wake up to its threats as well as its opportunities. SOo I wonder if it is finally this, walk-by dildo hacking, that will make people sit up and take notice?
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
If troops are deployed to the streets of Barcelona then I think that's pretty much the end of the EU I think.
There were troops on the streets of the 6 counties for many years after 1973, when the UK joined the then EEC.
I expect that there are quite a few men in the public eye who are feeling rather nervous today.
We’re going on a bear witch hunt. I’m not scared.
Personally, if I'd made a drunken pass at a 14 year old boy in my bedroom, I think I'd remember it even at 30 years' distance.
Unless it was a not-uncommon event.......I think it's fair to say that in seeking to dig himself out of one hole, Mr Spacey has dug himself another one.....
I wish they'd stick to politicians and leave talented thespians out of this witch-hunt
So the talented thespian who complained of Spacey's behaviour when he was 14 years old should have kept his mouth shut?
I expect worst things happen to most fourteen year old boys than being propositioned by a famous actor or actress. And If he wanted an interesting story to tell his chums he'd got one.
It is an odd story.
Who lets a 14 year old unchaperoned stay at a drunken party?
Nothing new about predatory behaviour in this context.
It is - I knew plenty of people of that age in the 60s who gained access to all sorts of illicit places and activities - as no doubt many do now. Not sure I'm very enamoured of this new 'morality' we're experiencing. 'Back to basics' under Major backfired badly. We seem to have another press feeding frenzy on the issue which is somewhat amusing given their own predilections.
Quite. Anyone at Westminster who did not know that the whips keep records of sexual and other misdemeanors by MPs must have been asleep for the past few decades.
I think the audience reaction to Gove's comment on the today programme is much more representative of public attitudes to these issues than the hypocritical outrage in the media.
Garnier's behaviour is that of an egotistical pr*ck but it is not criminal and should not be a resignation issue IMO.
Trying to guess what the silent majority think is fraught with difficulty. It is only about 1% of the population who express any opinions on controversial issues in public, everything is too toxic.
Indeed I mean liking Grime in itself shouldn't be a sacking offence. There are other tastes far worse. R*d**h**d, for example.
Ah, this is a separate investigation from the Russia/Trump thing, or am I missing something?
It's all in a oner. The current inditement doesn't mention Trump/Russia collusion but Mueller is starting with Manafort and going to nibble from there. Amazing that he's went straight for Manafort, normally they start way lower down the pole.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
If troops are deployed to the streets of Barcelona then I think that's pretty much the end of the EU I think.
There were troops on the streets of the 6 counties for many years after 1973, when the UK joined the then EEC.
There were quite a few troops on the streets in France last Summer after the terrorist attacks. Maybe they are still there - the emergency is still in force AFAIK. No one suggested that meant the end of the EU.
I just don't think my love of country could chime with the voters. Or at least, not British ones.
Not helped by the fact most people can't name a country song less than twenty years old.
Anything (pre-Red) by Taylor Swift?
'Car wheels on a gravel road' is a favorite of mine. Just gets in under the wire (1998).
Plenty of country artists are household names in the US. Carrie Underwood, Garth Brooks, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, Shania Twain, Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton spring to mind. And I am not particularly a fan, although I do like the occasional song.
Ah, this is a separate investigation from the Russia/Trump thing, or am I missing something?
It's all in a oner. The current inditement doesn't mention Trump/Russia collusion but Mueller is starting with Manafort and going to nibble from there. Amazing that he's went straight for Manafort, normally they start way lower down the pole.
Applying a bit of pressure and offering a deal no doubt.
Applying a bit of pressure and offering a deal no doubt.
Some speculation that Manafort walked in this morning with the intention of spilling his guts, but whether that gets him a deal or not is another matter
Ah, this is a separate investigation from the Russia/Trump thing, or am I missing something?
It's all in a oner. The current inditement doesn't mention Trump/Russia collusion but Mueller is starting with Manafort and going to nibble from there. Amazing that he's went straight for Manafort, normally they start way lower down the pole.
Ah, this is a separate investigation from the Russia/Trump thing, or am I missing something?
It's all in a oner. The current inditement doesn't mention Trump/Russia collusion but Mueller is starting with Manafort and going to nibble from there. Amazing that he's went straight for Manafort, normally they start way lower down the pole.
Applying a bit of pressure and offering a deal no doubt.
The deal will be for Manafort's sidekick. He could spill the beans in return for immunity.
How many minutes until Nicola offers asylum and solidarity in Edinburgh?
Edinburgh South West MP Joanna Cherry flew out to support the October 1 vote, despite being a QC and the Spanish constitutional court having suspended the referendum law the month before. There are people who struggle to follow the legal arguments on Judge Judy who had worked out which way the Spanish courts were going to rule. But such trivialities seem not to burden Miss Cherry. You get the impression that she thinks her elevation to Queen’s Counsel was a real honour for the Queen.
Now Christina McKelvie wants MSPs to vote for ‘recognition of Catalonia’s right to self-determination’. In a bunker deep under the streets of Barcelona, an animated lackey is galloping towards Carles Puigdemont whooping, ‘Senyor President! We’re saved! Christina McKelvie has tabled a non-binding motion before the Scottish Parliament.’
Pity the poor Scottish Nationalists. Everywhere they look, freedom is on the march — from Catalonia to Kurdistan. Everywhere, that is, except Scotland, where the country is heartily scunnered of constitutional argy-bargy after five solid years of nothing else. Scots have had their fill of idealism for a while. We’d like our roads fixed and a couple more GPs down the local practice, please.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
If troops are deployed to the streets of Barcelona then I think that's pretty much the end of the EU I think.
There were troops on the streets of the 6 counties for many years after 1973, when the UK joined the then EEC.
There were quite a few troops on the streets in France last Summer after the terrorist attacks. Maybe they are still there - the emergency is still in force AFAIK. No one suggested that meant the end of the EU.
Hyperbole - what? In Catalonia today the regular local Mossad police have enforced the law today with no appreciable fuss and the head of the Parliament has accepted the suspension.
A couple who met on a dating website have gone on trial accused of plotting a terror attack using a homemade bomb.
Single Muslim desperately seeking partner for islamic extremist activities...Enjoys watching Isis propaganda video, bomb making tutorials and weekends away to busy tourist locations to scout out possible venues for attacks..
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
Yup. The fascists are in charge now.
If you ever wanted proof that the word “fascists” was overused, here it is.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
I think you are wrong - there is a strong consensus among all the parties that the law must be upheld. Also many of the headlines are massively exaggerating what is so far a fairly measured response.
It is a funny kind of law. No part of Spain can secede under any circumstances even if 100% wanted it because the Spanish constitution does not allow breaking up. How long that can last remains to be seen. Under the aegis of the EU, it does not really matter if Barcelona is in Spain or Catalunia. Only the EU rules [ which the Spanish will not allow to be changed ] prevent this.
I mean Yugoslavia broke up into six and some of them are part of the EU today with others to follow. Czech and Slovakia broke up and both are members today.
I know these happened prior to them joining the EU but in practical terms, what is the difference ?
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
I think you are wrong - there is a strong consensus among all the parties that the law must be upheld. Also many of the headlines are massively exaggerating what is so far a fairly measured response.
It is a funny kind of law. No part of Spain can secede under any circumstances even if 100% wanted it because the Spanish constitution does not allow breaking up. How long that can last remains to be seen. Under the aegis of the EU, it does not really matter if Barcelona is in Spain or Catalunia. Only the EU rules [ which the Spanish will not allow to be changed ] prevent this.
I mean Yugoslavia broke up into six and some of them are part of the EU today with others to follow. Czech and Slovakia broke up and both are members today.
I know these happened prior to them joining the EU but in practical terms, what is the difference ?
The EU has made it's position on the issue very clear. They support the application of the rule of law in Spain. As a fan of the organisation you'd think you'd be happy.
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
I think you are wrong - there is a strong consensus among all the parties that the law must be upheld. Also many of the headlines are massively exaggerating what is so far a fairly measured response.
It is a funny kind of law. No part of Spain can secede under any circumstances even if 100% wanted it because the Spanish constitution does not allow breaking up. How long that can last remains to be seen. Under the aegis of the EU, it does not really matter if Barcelona is in Spain or Catalunia. Only the EU rules [ which the Spanish will not allow to be changed ] prevent this.
I mean Yugoslavia broke up into six and some of them are part of the EU today with others to follow. Czech and Slovakia broke up and both are members today.
I know these happened prior to them joining the EU but in practical terms, what is the difference ?
That the state they are acrimoniously seceding from is a current EU member?
The Spanish authorities are getting this very wrong. The move to bring criminal charges against Catalan leaders is not going to help resolve anything. Indeed it looks petty, vindictive and will only make martyrs who can exploit it for their own political benefit.
What a mess.
The Spanish government has the law and the EU on its side.
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
All Rajoy is doing is making Catalan independence more likely and increasing the chance of violence. He is a fecking moron.
Yup. The fascists are in charge now.
If you ever wanted proof that the word “fascists” was overused, here it is.
Absolutely.
It's only the people SUPPORTED by Fascists that are in charge.
Leadsom will make statement on MPs behaviour this afternoon, Guardian reporting
What could go wrong?
One wonders what she thinks of it all, as a mother.
Without wishing to tar anybody without children, for whatever reason, one of May’s (many) problems, is the absence of children and the wider consequences and emotional challenges relating to that. More than most, she could do with being challenged and drawn out of her intellectual and emotional comfort zone.
Why is it 'devastating for May'? She is probably about the most personally upstanding in her personal life of the lot and these allegations will go back through the Cameron years and maybe beyond and cover Labour MPs and LDs too if the reports are anything to go by
For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.
Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.
Cameron obviously knew about it too, Corbyn clearly knew about cases on the Labour side as well in all likelihood as identified by John Mann.
There were plenty of people in parliament and the wider media who 'knew' about Lord McAlpine's alleged transgressions. He suffered more than a decade of nudge-nudge, wink-wink behind his back, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
The problem, whether sexual shenanigans or sexual misdemeanours, is that too many of our politicians are utterly unprofessional. And this creates a culture where only people who are willing to put up with this unprofessionalism, or are willing to take part in it, become politicians.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
Do you want to give examples of that or does it come from your, apparently unlimited bullshit bank.
I just don't think my love of country could chime with the voters. Or at least, not British ones.
Not helped by the fact most people can't name a country song less than twenty years old.
Anything (pre-Red) by Taylor Swift?
'Car wheels on a gravel road' is a favorite of mine. Just gets in under the wire (1998).
Plenty of country artists are household names in the US. Carrie Underwood, Garth Brooks, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, Shania Twain, Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton spring to mind. And I am not particularly a fan, although I do like the occasional song.
F1: blimey. Betfair already has the 2018 title markets up.
Not really got going yet. Put down 230 for Alonso.
Interestingly, Ladbrokes, which also has a market, has McLaren and Renault drivers shorter than Force India. It's a shame the latter don't have a bit more cash.
I think it's too soon for Renault. They need a bit more time, in my view. None of the Ladbrokes odds tempt me at the moment.
Edited extra bit: I should clarify, those are the odds, not my stake, on Alonso
The BBC this am seemed to have gone into Lewis Hamilton overdrive (not as good as the Bachman Turner sort), suggesting that Hamilton could equal Schumacher's record of 7 titles by 2020. Shades of English footie team chicken counting hype?
Not that I'm suggesting Hamilton isn't vastly more capable than the current English football team.
I was thinking the same thing, particularly as it is presented almost as a given, when at best it is a possibility.
Why is it 'devastating for May'? She is probably about the most personally upstanding in her personal life of the lot and these allegations will go back through the Cameron years and maybe beyond and cover Labour MPs and LDs too if the reports are anything to go by
For May the big risk is that the story moves to how long she has known about the alleged misconduct, via her whip's office, and why she didn't move earlier to deter and punish.
Since time immemorial prime ministers and their whips have gathered intelligence about the flaws and transgressions of MPs as a way of enforcing loyalty. But that is not a good look for a prime minister who has said so much about wanting to stamp out gender discrimination, bullying and the abuse of the vulnerable.
Cameron obviously knew about it too, Corbyn clearly knew about cases on the Labour side as well in all likelihood as identified by John Mann.
There were plenty of people in parliament and the wider media who 'knew' about Lord McAlpine's alleged transgressions. He suffered more than a decade of nudge-nudge, wink-wink behind his back, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
The problem, whether sexual shenanigans or sexual misdemeanours, is that too many of our politicians are utterly unprofessional. And this creates a culture where only people who are willing to put up with this unprofessionalism, or are willing to take part in it, become politicians.
There are plenty of 'professions' including the law and medicine where there have been instances of harassment too.
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
Do you want to give examples of that or does it come from your, apparently unlimited bullshit bank.
Comments
Though I agree people should be innocent until proven guilty.
In Brussels...
A lot of this is the secular move towards increased prudery. Autre temps, autres moeurs
Puigdemont and his co-conspirators need to go into exile far away from where Spanish extradition treaties apply, if they aren't to suffer the fate of his predecessor Lluís Companys.
They really are stupid enough to think their influence will be improved by forcing an election, aren't they ? I always thought IDS a bit thick, but this takes the biscuit.
It's going all Morton's Fork for May.
Secular puritanism. Right across the anglophile world.
Religious prudery, sans religion.
The neverending societal renegotiation of what constitutes consent.
Society is in flux.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41724321
When I first met her about ten years ago she told me of the widespread male chauvinism in the world of cartoons. I was sceptical, and thought she maybe had a bit of a chip on her shoulder. Over the years I came to reverse that opinion through direct experience of what seems a small world dominated by the kind of male clique that I'd thought had pretty much died out.
On the evidence of the article, it will be some time before it does die out.
https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/924981803651358721
Certainly those (for example Peter Hitchens), who hark back to a more 'Victorian' set of social standards are on board with that - but at base this is surely about simple respect for others ?
Demanding that from those in positions of power or responsibility is hardly prudery.
Hacking tends to bring to mind compromised bank accounts or infiltrated government security systems, not anything as salacious as a dildo. But yesterday, the scientist Ben Goldacre alerted me to the practice of “screwdriving” – short-distance sex-toy hacking.
It might sound far-fetched, but the bluetooth low energy (BLE) networking protocol that “smart” sex toys often use can be compromised relatively easily, as demonstrated by security consultant Alex Lomas, who wandered the streets of Berlin taking control of Lovense Hush buttplugs.
I am a natural tech evangelist, but I fear I am fast becoming the voice of internet doom in my increasingly desperate attempts to make the government wake up to its threats as well as its opportunities. So I wonder if it is finally this, walk-by dildo hacking, that will make people sit up and take notice?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/06/drive-by-sex-toy-hacking-wake-up-call-britain-internet-security-vibrators
Unlike sexual assault, sexual harassment is not a crime, and there is no objective standard of proof. In fact, it is something that appears to be entirely identified by victims, and their experiences seem to be beyond scrutiny. It is something that once accused of, you can never refute. I know that a lot of serious, unacceptable stuff has happened, but it is in everyones interests to work within the framework of the law. Otherwise you just have chaos.
I think the audience reaction to Gove's comment on the today programme is much more representative of public attitudes to these issues than the hypocritical outrage in the media.
Garnier's behaviour is that of an egotistical pr*ck but it is not criminal and should not be a resignation issue IMO.
This observation from mad John mcaffee seems somehow relevant to the debate, too;
"Society cannot function if everyone knows everything about everyone else," McAfee sagely noted, explaining that if two parties have contradictory beliefs it is a natural human instinct to try and settle those differences, which leads to conflict. If those parties are unaware of their differing beliefs, however, this conflict has no room in which to take place. It is, in McAfee's view, essential for civilisation: "Privacy creates a barrier through which conflict is stifled”
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/04/mad_mcafee/
For the inditement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXqLWqCqDHc
"It took us two hours just to get the smile off his face."
"I'm listening to Radioh.., Emm, I am using a vibrator"
Plenty of country artists are household names in the US. Carrie Underwood, Garth Brooks, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert, Shania Twain, Tim McGraw and Blake Shelton spring to mind. And I am not particularly a fan, although I do like the occasional song.
You could not make this up
"In total more than $75,000,000 flowed through the offshore accounts.
"Manafort laundered more than $18,000,000, which was used by him to buy property, goods and services in the United States."
@abradacabla: so what the White House is saying is that Donald Trump in fact hires the worst people https://twitter.com/NoahGrayCNN/status/924995375269863425
Lock 'em up, lock 'em up, lock'em up....
Edinburgh South West MP Joanna Cherry flew out to support the October 1 vote, despite being a QC and the Spanish constitutional court having suspended the referendum law the month before. There are people who struggle to follow the legal arguments on Judge Judy who had worked out which way the Spanish courts were going to rule. But such trivialities seem not to burden Miss Cherry. You get the impression that she thinks her elevation to Queen’s Counsel was a real honour for the Queen.
Now Christina McKelvie wants MSPs to vote for ‘recognition of Catalonia’s right to self-determination’. In a bunker deep under the streets of Barcelona, an animated lackey is galloping towards Carles Puigdemont whooping, ‘Senyor President! We’re saved! Christina McKelvie has tabled a non-binding motion before the Scottish Parliament.’
Pity the poor Scottish Nationalists. Everywhere they look, freedom is on the march — from Catalonia to Kurdistan. Everywhere, that is, except Scotland, where the country is heartily scunnered of constitutional argy-bargy after five solid years of nothing else. Scots have had their fill of idealism for a while. We’d like our roads fixed and a couple more GPs down the local practice, please.
https://stephendaisley.com/2017/10/30/nicolas-freedom-fighters-take-up-arms-and-enjoy-a-few-days-in-the-sun/
Single Muslim desperately seeking partner for islamic extremist activities...Enjoys watching Isis propaganda video, bomb making tutorials and weekends away to busy tourist locations to scout out possible venues for attacks..
I mean Yugoslavia broke up into six and some of them are part of the EU today with others to follow. Czech and Slovakia broke up and both are members today.
I know these happened prior to them joining the EU but in practical terms, what is the difference ?
It's only the people SUPPORTED by Fascists that are in charge.
https://twitter.com/Munchbunch87/status/924778364162007041
NEW THREAD
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/12/female-barristers-report-high-level-of-sexual-harassment-at-work