politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the S Mirror’s right about TMay’s exit date then the 2/1 on
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the S Mirror’s right about TMay’s exit date then the 2/1 on Betfair is a great punt
TMay planning to quit as PM on Aug 30 2019 that is if there's not a move against her earlier as there could https://t.co/h1gfWAmLKN
Comments
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First!0
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Second like remain.0
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Is the Sunday Mirror not an odd choice for a Number 10 leak?0
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Forth...bridge ...third one..0
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Morning. On topic, 2019 seems reasonable, she’ll stay in place until the Brexit negotiations are finished, then will stand down with the job done to hand over to someone else before the next election in maybe 2020.
Off topic, they finally got through the undercard in Vegas, and now they’re delaying the big fight because of TV subscription services being down. A long night for those staying up in the UK, about two hours later than scheduled.0 -
Mayweather @ 1.29
I've bitten.
I don't know anything about boxing, but I don't think I'll regret that bet even if he loses.
The interesting question, for me, is how far away the betting markets are from fair value.
We'll see.0 -
That's as maybe but here we are!!Sandpit said:Morning. On topic, 2019 seems reasonable, she’ll stay in place until the Brexit negotiations are finished, then will stand down with the job done to hand over to someone else before the next election in maybe 2020.
Off topic, they finally got through the undercard in Vegas, and now they’re delaying the big fight because of TV subscription services being down. A long night for those staying up in the UK, about two hours later than scheduled.
Tabiti was sublime, Jack was immense, Davis was inspired.
Enjoy!0 -
1.29 is bonkers, should be 1.029.
I’m on Mayweather to win in fewer than six rounds, but am only in for £50 or so - fight sports can occasionally throw up a surprise result.0 -
Rd 1 makes me very happy any other slightly less so!0
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Fuck I can't actually believe this is happening!0
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McGregor is like someone lining up for the super-g with tennis rackets on his feet.0
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The master0
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Only 15 Tories have so far agreed to sign a letter of no confidence in the PM. It needs 48 to trigger a contestDecrepitJohnL said:Is the Sunday Mirror not an odd choice for a Number 10 leak?
Oh dear......0 -
Thought Connor did well !0
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I don't think I'll be betting on boxing again.
It's a "sport" I don't understand.0 -
Floyd was fantastic. He took him when he wanted. I am just irritated that he decided not to end it earlier!!
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Ok I am loving Conor also!0
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Given the first three rounds, I am surprisingly regret-free about not having had more on the champ.0
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Let's see how things look after conference, when MPs and activists meet in the bars.CarlottaVance said:
Only 15 Tories have so far agreed to sign a letter of no confidence in the PM. It needs 48 to trigger a contestDecrepitJohnL said:Is the Sunday Mirror not an odd choice for a Number 10 leak?
Oh dear......0 -
Floyd is a cheeky monkey.
He had a smile on his face from Rd 2.0 -
He wanted to give the fans their money's worth, so fair play to him - it was a $200m payday after all.TOPPING said:Floyd is a cheeky monkey.
He had a smile on his face from Rd 2.
I just lost a few quid though. I reckon Mayweather's team had their cash on 9 and 10.0 -
Hat-tip to whichever pb-er pointed out the value in the price on a stoppage.
Edit: hat-tip to @Pulpstar for crediting @Freetochoose0 -
Yep. I can't believe I thought he would ignore that side.Sandpit said:
He wanted to give the fans their money's worth, so fair play to him - it was a $200m payday after all.TOPPING said:Floyd is a cheeky monkey.
He had a smile on his face from Rd 2.
I just lost a few quid though. I reckon Mayweather's team had their cash on 9 and 10.
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The cynics will say it lasted that long just to set up another big payday in the rematch.Sandpit said:
He wanted to give the fans their money's worth, so fair play to him - it was a $200m payday after all.TOPPING said:Floyd is a cheeky monkey.
He had a smile on his face from Rd 2.
I just lost a few quid though. I reckon Mayweather's team had their cash on 9 and 10.0 -
@FreetochooseDecrepitJohnL said:Hat-tip to whichever pb-er pointed out the value in the price on a stoppage.
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Looking at Conor afterwards it was the classic relief/pride at competing.
It was the feeling that mortals get when they compete and lose/don't win and are so happy they have forced themselves to compete - win lose the elation is that you have put yourself up to try.0 -
I just put £1k on Mayweather @ 1.29 just before 5am.Pulpstar said:
What bet did you have.Pong said:I don't think I'll be betting on boxing again.
It's a "sport" I don't understand.
I'm not regretting my straight win bet of ~240 on Floyd. Could well have been a wide decision with another referee
The hindsight narratives (that Floyd was *just toying* with Connor, etc etc) don't persuade me I got the value I thought I was getting when I took the 1.29.
It looks to me like the market wasn't far off.
Still, winningz are winningz
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After 30 seconds of rd 1 he was just toying with him.Pong said:
I just put £1k on Mayweather @ 1.29 just before 5am.Pulpstar said:
What bet did you have.Pong said:I don't think I'll be betting on boxing again.
It's a "sport" I don't understand.
I'm not regretting my straight win bet of ~240 on Floyd. Could well have been a wide decision with another referee
The hindsight narratives (that Floyd was *just toying* with connor, etc etc) don't persuade me I got the value I thought I was getting when I took the 1.29.
It looks to me like the market wasn't far off.
Still, winningz are winningz0 -
McGregor Malinaggi has to happen I think. I won't bet on that one0
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OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.0 -
That was a great price.Pong said:
I just put £1k on Mayweather @ 1.29 just before 5am.Pulpstar said:
What bet did you have.Pong said:I don't think I'll be betting on boxing again.
It's a "sport" I don't understand.
I'm not regretting my straight win bet of ~240 on Floyd. Could well have been a wide decision with another referee
The hindsight narratives (that Floyd was *just toying* with Connor, etc etc) don't persuade me I got the value I thought I was getting when I took the 1.29.
It looks to me like the market wasn't far off.
Still, winningz are winningz
I had a bit on at 1.25 and some on the stoppage, but outweighed by a few small bets on the early rounds. £50 on and £30 back, but didn’t have to pay for the PPV so was a good morning’s entertainment for £20.
The last time I had a grand on something at 1.25 it was the Tory majority!0 -
Shows just how skilled good boxers are. A true art.0
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Yes. I've just reread @freetochoose 's posts and (s)he seems to have been on the money.Pulpstar said:
@FreetochooseDecrepitJohnL said:Hat-tip to whichever pb-er pointed out the value in the price on a stoppage.
Respect.0 -
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
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Quite possibly, and definitely not.Pulpstar said:McGregor Malinaggi has to happen I think. I won't bet on that one
McGregor’s seen the huge payday that a boxing match can get him, he’d be mad not to want to do it again even if it seems like a freak show to boxing aficionados.0 -
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.0 -
A good point about pairing, where Labour especially think they’ll be able to ambush the Tories with some late night votes. More difficult in practice though, they’ll need all the SNP and Plaid on board, as well as Caroline and Sylvia.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
Has the potential for some very bad headlines though, if for example they don’t pair someone with Nick Boles who’s suffering from cancer and frequently in hospital.
I can imagine some informal pairings too, perhaps Anna Soubry and Kate Hoey might pair up to avoid voting against their whip.
For every other Tory MP though, the next 18 months are going to be spent in Westminster from Monday morning until Friday night, and as you say there will be plans worked out for anyone out of town to get back quickly if required. It’s going to be a real pain for ministers in the foreign office, brexit department, international trade and overseas aid departments to have to plan their travel very carefully. Wouldn’t want to be a Tory whip right now.0 -
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
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It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.0 -
Macron is turning in to the most amusing french president in ages, now the Germans are mocking him for playing Top Gun
https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article168012325/Mit-dem-Top-Gun-Auftritt-hat-es-Himmelsstuermer-Macron-uebertrieben.html
hope he got his make-up right0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Thanks to Mr. Choose for his Mayweather tip to win by KO TKO or DSQ.0 -
latest German polls
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/f-a-z-wahlbarometer-so-wollen-die-deutschen-waehlen-14406977.html
not much movement, Merkel still in front, SPD going nowhere, commntators expecting AfD to come a distant third0 -
Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
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Will she get to choose her own leaving date? Others may well wish to prepone it.
One drawback of a Prime Minister preannouncing their departure date is usually reckoned to be a severe loss of authority. Evdiently that isn't a consideration this time round.0 -
You have to have some authority before you can lose it.AlastairMeeks said:Will she get to choose her own leaving date? Others may well wish to prepone it.
One drawback of a Prime Minister preannouncing their departure date is usually reckoned to be a severe loss of authority. Evdiently that isn't a consideration this time round.0 -
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal0 -
YESSSSS !Alanbrooke said:latest German polls
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/f-a-z-wahlbarometer-so-wollen-die-deutschen-waehlen-14406977.html
not much movement, Merkel still in front, SPD going nowhere, commntators expecting AfD to come a distant third0 -
Well, once he chose Trump as his best friend................Alanbrooke said:Macron is turning in to the most amusing french president in ages, now the Germans are mocking him for playing Top Gun
https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article168012325/Mit-dem-Top-Gun-Auftritt-hat-es-Himmelsstuermer-Macron-uebertrieben.html
hope he got his make-up right0 -
Labour also recognise that this transitional arrangement would – for all its merits – be imperfect and prove unsustainable beyond a limited period.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
It would not provide a durable or acceptable long-term settlement for Britain or the EU. It would not provide certainty for either party. It leaves unresolved some of the central issues the referendum exposed – in particular the need for more effective management of migration, which Labour recognise must be addressed in the final deal.0 -
Which is why PB needs to see past its unthinking hatred of Theresa May and have a bit less credulity about this. Everyone in Westminster knows it is foolhardy to set your own leaving date after Blair did it, which is why May won't do the same. Believing a report in the bitterly anti-Tory Daily Mirror that only functions to hurt the Conservatives is a bit ridiculous.AlastairMeeks said:Will she get to choose her own leaving date? Others may well wish to prepone it.
One drawback of a Prime Minister preannouncing their departure date is usually reckoned to be a severe loss of authority. Evdiently that isn't a consideration this time round.0 -
Thank you for prepone. a word I have never heard of before.AlastairMeeks said:Will she get to choose her own leaving date? Others may well wish to prepone it.
One drawback of a Prime Minister preannouncing their departure date is usually reckoned to be a severe loss of authority. Evdiently that isn't a consideration this time round.0 -
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.0 -
Carlotta, good morning ! I can see the boxing people got up earlier this morning.CarlottaVance said:
Labour also recognise that this transitional arrangement would – for all its merits – be imperfect and prove unsustainable beyond a limited period.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
It would not provide a durable or acceptable long-term settlement for Britain or the EU. It would not provide certainty for either party. It leaves unresolved some of the central issues the referendum exposed – in particular the need for more effective management of migration, which Labour recognise must be addressed in the final deal.
Back to Brexit. We are now odds on to win Tokyo Central and the Chiba Prefecture !
Barnier could even tell Davis: "why am I talking to you ?"0 -
Mr Google:Alanbrooke said:Macron is turning in to the most amusing french president in ages, now the Germans are mocking him for playing Top Gun
https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article168012325/Mit-dem-Top-Gun-Auftritt-hat-es-Himmelsstuermer-Macron-uebertrieben.html
hope he got his make-up right
Jupiter returns to the earth", then cheered French media with a mixture of relief and ridicule. The young President, who briefly flirted with the emperor's clothes, might be quite naked in the winter.0 -
The media's lack of scrutiny of Corbyn's Labour reminds me of Trump before the election. They used him as a hammer to attack Clinton and before you know it you have an idiot as head of government. The Conservatives need to turn this around and have a very disciplined line of attack on Labour wanting open borders, lying to the voters before the election and Corbyn's economic desire to have a model like Venezuela.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.0 -
They are mostly Tories now, aren't they ? Remember in this calamitous election for the Tories, the positive swings they achieved were in the North East - on top of the swings in 2015 and 2010.CornishJohn said:
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.0 -
And in the other corner ...CornishJohn said:
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.
https://www.google.fr/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/hard-brexit-british-economy-study-trade-customs-union-single-market-europe-eu-ridiculous-a7906086.html?amp
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Prepone arrived, along with the verb "to do the needful" from India, via outsourcing.SquareRoot said:
Thank you for prepone. a word I have never heard of before.AlastairMeeks said:Will she get to choose her own leaving date? Others may well wish to prepone it.
One drawback of a Prime Minister preannouncing their departure date is usually reckoned to be a severe loss of authority. Evdiently that isn't a consideration this time round.0 -
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
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OK, attacking Corbyn on Venezuela is going to be as successful as him supporting the Provos, Hamas.......CornishJohn said:
The media's lack of scrutiny of Corbyn's Labour reminds me of Trump before the election. They used him as a hammer to attack Clinton and before you know it you have an idiot as head of government. The Conservatives need to turn this around and have a very disciplined line of attack on Labour wanting open borders, lying to the voters before the election and Corbyn's economic desire to have a model like Venezuela.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
I would bet 90% of voters couldn't tell you where Venezuela was. Maybe people around West Bromwich just about could.0 -
Mr Corbyn stands on the verge of power. The Tory party is so demented that some members are rallying behind Jacob Rees-Mogg, a pantomime toff, to succeed Theresa May. There is little chance that Mr Corbyn would moderate his hard-leftism in government. He has been banging the same drums for 30 years, and is surrounded by fellow-travellers such as John McDonnell, his shadow chancellor, and Seumas Milne, his chief strategist, whose biggest disagreement is over whether Stalin or Trotsky is the greater inspiration. He is supported by snarling activists in the Momentum campaigning group and the Unite trade union
https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21727080-combination-brexit-and-jeremy-corbyn-could-lead-dystopia-ayn-rand-predicted?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/inbritainatlasisabouttoshrug0 -
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.0 -
the fun starts this weekCarlottaVance said:
Mr Google:Alanbrooke said:Macron is turning in to the most amusing french president in ages, now the Germans are mocking him for playing Top Gun
https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article168012325/Mit-dem-Top-Gun-Auftritt-hat-es-Himmelsstuermer-Macron-uebertrieben.html
hope he got his make-up right
Jupiter returns to the earth", then cheered French media with a mixture of relief and ridicule. The young President, who briefly flirted with the emperor's clothes, might be quite naked in the winter.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/26/emmanuel-macron-reform-france-labour-laws-challenge-unions
if Macron backs down on this Mrs May will be looking a strong stable leader with a united party by comparison0 -
Politicians talk about"transition" but they really mean "continuity". Continuity is durable for just as long as people think the alternative is unacceptable. Leavers mostly think the alternative is unacceptable because they refuse to acknowledge it as the consequence of their decision to leave the EU. Remainers never wanted the alternative.CarlottaVance said:
Labour also recognise that this transitional arrangement would – for all its merits – be imperfect and prove unsustainable beyond a limited period.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
It would not provide a durable or acceptable long-term settlement for Britain or the EU. It would not provide certainty for either party. It leaves unresolved some of the central issues the referendum exposed – in particular the need for more effective management of migration, which Labour recognise must be addressed in the final deal.0 -
Liar Liar song perhaps..CornishJohn said:
The media's lack of scrutiny of Corbyn's Labour reminds me of Trump before the election. They used him as a hammer to attack Clinton and before you know it you have an idiot as head of government. The Conservatives need to turn this around and have a very disciplined line of attack on Labour wanting open borders, lying to the voters before the election and Corbyn's economic desire to have a model like Venezuela.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
Surely it should be an economic model like East Germany.
FFS get a grip. What the Tories need are policies for the many not the few rather than the reverse.0 -
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
0 -
Labour going for "soft" Brexit makes them the party of business, which is a strange place for a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.0
-
I see Remainers are letting themselves get all overexcited again this morning.
Golden rule of Brexit is that the better Remainers think something is for them, the worse it plays for them in the country:
- Obama
- Osborne and his various predictions of doom
- Debates
- The actual vote
- Gina Miller's Legal challenge
- The GE
- Keir Starmer
You'd think they'd have learned by now...
0 -
SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him0 -
I have advocated the Tories do that for many years. It means reforms to reduce housing, food and energy costs in a sustainable way, not hard-left socialism that impoverishes a nation. We have seen exactly what happens in places like Eastern Europe, Venezuela and Cuba. Or this country when we last tried it in the 1970s.bigjohnowls said:
Liar Liar song perhaps..
Surely it should be an economic model like East Germany.
FFS get a grip. What the Tories need are policies for the many not the few rather than the reverse.0 -
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
0 -
What do you think he's been doing up to now?Alanbrooke said:
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German electionsSouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-397303260 -
There's a big difference between conservatives' criticism of the BBC for failing to mention key facts and left-wingers' criticism of the BBC for including the other side of the argument. If we had their way, the minority economist position against the Euro would never have been aired and we would be still recovering from economic collapse right now.SouthamObserver said:
And in the other corner ...CornishJohn said:
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.
https://www.google.fr/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/hard-brexit-british-economy-study-trade-customs-union-single-market-europe-eu-ridiculous-a7906086.html?amp
That's an actual economic collapse, not the imaginary one Remain claimed would happen.0 -
no he's just going through the motions, Merkel won't move until shes back in and knows who she is in coalition withSouthamObserver said:
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position means no transition.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will maker big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
PB is just too hung up on Brexit and has lost the plot0 -
I notice you ignore Mrs. May's vanity project election on June 8th -Mortimer said:I see Remainers are letting themselves get all overexcited again this morning.
Golden rule of Brexit is that the better Remainers think something is for them, the worse it plays for them in the country:
- Obama
- Osborne and his various predictions of doom
- Debates
- The actual vote
- Gina Miller's Legal challenge
- The GE
- Keir Starmer
You'd think they'd have learned by now...-1 -
'The GE', as referenced above, which hasn't changed govt Brexit policy one bit.MikeSmithson said:
I notice you ignore Mrs. May's vanity project election on June 8th -Mortimer said:I see Remainers are letting themselves get all overexcited again this morning.
Golden rule of Brexit is that the better Remainers think something is for them, the worse it plays for them in the country:
- Obama
- Osborne and his various predictions of doom
- Debates
- The actual vote
- Gina Miller's Legal challenge
- The GE
- Keir Starmer
You'd think they'd have learned by now...
As I say, Remainers get overexcited. They've forgotten how to reason about this issue.
People voted to leave, and leave we shall. Rejoice.0 -
If a calamitous election entails us winning 42% of the vote and forming a government, I would be happy to get a calamitous result for the next three elections. We need to grow our working class vote by showing them how much Labour lies to them to get their votes before stabbing them in the back after the tally comes in. It's not just the EU either. They removed the anti-British racist Diane Abbott from their team before the election, before putting her back after the vote. Combined with the anti-Semitism, Labour is a completely unethical party.surbiton said:
They are mostly Tories now, aren't they ? Remember in this calamitous election for the Tories, the positive swings they achieved were in the North East - on top of the swings in 2015 and 2010.CornishJohn said:
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.
The untrustworthiness of Labour manifestos should also play part of the attack on Labour's middle class voters. They need to be told very clearly that Corbyn would go well beyond it to implement Socialism in the UK. Plus what that would mean for the functioning of markets and economic growth.0 -
Also turning against the working class in England and Wales, that voted against unlimited EU immigration.FF43 said:Labour going for "soft" Brexit makes them the party of business, which is a strange place for a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.
"“What there wouldn’t be is whole-scale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industries.”
Pressed on how his party would restrict immigration, Corbyn said: “You prevent agencies recruiting for jobs like that, you advertise for jobs in the locality first … It would be on the basis on the economic need and skills required. The need for nurses is huge … we have to be sensible about this.”" Corbin on Marr July 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-market-jeremy-corbyn
0 -
Betting Post
F1: backed both Force Indias to score at 2.2. It's Ladbrokes, but on the Exchange, under F1, then Belgian GP Specials. Wasn't there yesterday or I would've tipped that.0 -
Taking the lead from OGH I'm afraid.Alanbrooke said:
no he's just going through the motions, Merkel won't move until shes back in and knows who she is in coalition withSouthamObserver said:
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position means no transition.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will maker big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
PB is just too hung up on Brexit and has lost the plot0 -
So the Brexiteers expect Merkel to pull our nuts out of the fire?SouthamObserver said:
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possibleSouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
Methinks that not a very cunning plan...0 -
So it is better to lose a working majority which the Tories had guaranteed for three more years ? Even with the help of the ransom-seekers the Tory-DUP numbers are less than what the Tories already had.CornishJohn said:
If a calamitous election entails us winning 42% of the vote and forming a government, I would be happy to get a calamitous result for the next three elections. .surbiton said:
They are mostly Tories now, aren't they ? Remember in this calamitous election for the Tories, the positive swings they achieved were in the North East - on top of the swings in 2015 and 2010.CornishJohn said:
Labour's working class voters have been treated like fools once again. Just as in 2005, Labour pretended to give a eurosceptic position to get their votes before an election, before immediately backing out of it after the election. Every working class voter needs to get the message that Labour have secretly been wanting to sell us back to Brussels all along, complete with EU courts being back in control and unlimited migration from Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
What is most astonishing about all this is how the BBC and the Remain establishmnet almost entirely fail to mention the U-Turn in this. This is after Boris saying €100bn is too high a fee on one occasion and saying we will pay a number above €0bn on another occasion was painted as a U-Turn. They have abandoned any pretense of consistency or impartiality in their efforts to oppose Brexit. Private media companies can of course do what they want but it's about time the national broadcaster got sanctioned for their overwhelming political bias.
The untrustworthiness of Labour manifestos should also play part of the attack on Labour's middle class voters. They need to be told very clearly that Corbyn would go well beyond it to implement Socialism in the UK. Plus what that would mean for the functioning of markets and economic growth.
If it is such a good idea, you should have another election soon.0 -
James ChapmanMortimer said:I see Remainers are letting themselves get all overexcited again this morning.
Golden rule of Brexit is that the better Remainers think something is for them, the worse it plays for them in the country:
- Obama
- Osborne and his various predictions of doom
- Debates
- The actual vote
- Gina Miller's Legal challenge
- The GE
- Keir Starmer
You'd think they'd have learned by now...0 -
Nah, the odds were totally out of whack. I haven't watched the fight but all the minute by minute and live commentaries I've read had the fight going exactly how I thought it would.Pong said:
I just put £1k on Mayweather @ 1.29 just before 5am.Pulpstar said:
What bet did you have.Pong said:I don't think I'll be betting on boxing again.
It's a "sport" I don't understand.
I'm not regretting my straight win bet of ~240 on Floyd. Could well have been a wide decision with another referee
The hindsight narratives (that Floyd was *just toying* with Connor, etc etc) don't persuade me I got the value I thought I was getting when I took the 1.29.
It looks to me like the market wasn't far off.
Still, winningz are winningz
Mayweather boxed as he always did and Mayweather boxes to go the distance. He gave up early rounds to let his opponent punch himself out and closed it out easily.0 -
the best thing about a week in Germany and Austria has been to see how irrelevant Brexit now is to their politicsfoxinsoxuk said:
So the Brexiteers expect Merkel to pull our nuts out of the fire?SouthamObserver said:
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier fs the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possibleSouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguouell do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
Methinks that not a very cunning plan...
it hardly gets a mention
the 12 month remainer sulkathon will end in October when Germany gets a new government, after that things will move on
0 -
Douglas Carswell✔ @DouglasCarswell
"I see Continuity Remain has got back from its villa in Umbria and is making every effort to get its narrative into the newspapers"0 -
We saw in the Queens Speech that just about everything in the Tory Manifesto was junked apart from a Brexit that is led by a lame duck, and that splits the cabinet.surbiton said:
So it is better to lose a working majority which the Tories had guaranteed for three more years ? Even with the help of the ransom-seekers the Tory-DUP numbers are less than what the Tories already had.CornishJohn said:
If a calamitous election entails us winning 42% of the vote and forming a government, I would be happy to get a calamitous result for the next three elections. .surbiton said:
They are mostly Tories now, aren't they ? Remember in this calamitous election for the Tories, the positive swings they achieved were in the North East - on top of the swings in 2015 and 2010.CornishJohn said:
Labour's working .surbiton said:
Yes, Carlotta ! This time you got it absolutely spot on. The Great Red Spot.CarlottaVance said:Labour comes out for BINO?:
Labour would seek a transitional deal that maintains the same basic terms that we currently enjoy with the EU. That means we would seek to remain in a customs union with the EU and within the single market during this period. It means we would abide by the common rules of both.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/keir-starmer-no-constructive-ambiguity-brexit-cliff-edge-labour-will-avoid-transitional-deal
The untrustworthiness of Labour manifestos should also play part of the attack on Labour's middle class voters. They need to be told very clearly that Corbyn would go well beyond it to implement Socialism in the UK. Plus what that would mean for the functioning of markets and economic growth.
If it is such a good idea, you should have another election soon.
It is rather a curious sort of "victory".0 -
So Brexit is not an issue in Germany. In that case why will Merkel be key to our position?Alanbrooke said:
the best thing about a week in Germany and Austria has been to see how irrelevant Brexit now is to their politicsfoxinsoxuk said:
So the Brexiteers expect Merkel to pull our nuts out of the fire?SouthamObserver said:
He already is!Alanbrooke said:SouthamObserver said:
We're going over the cliff edge. It's clear the Tories are heading that way. The real battle from here will be about who gets the blame and who gets the job of cleaning up the mess.surbiton said:
But 2 years is now 4 years or more ! Ha ha ! I would prefer UK to come out of the EU and then have a transitional arrangement until ....... the end of this century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it's just about the perfect position for an opposition to take right now. Total cake and eat it. Just like the Tories, but with no obligation to deliver.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier fs the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possibleSouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguouell do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.
the real negotiaions havent even started yet, theyre all waiting on the German elections
Barnier will do what Merkel tells him
Methinks that not a very cunning plan...
it hardly gets a mention
the 12 month remainer sulkathon will end in October when Germany gets a new government, after that things will move on
More likely she will concentrate on Germany's economic boom.0 -
A good article to read, Carlotta. The whole article.CarlottaVance said:Mr Corbyn stands on the verge of power. The Tory party is so demented that some members are rallying behind Jacob Rees-Mogg, a pantomime toff, to succeed Theresa May. There is little chance that Mr Corbyn would moderate his hard-leftism in government. He has been banging the same drums for 30 years, and is surrounded by fellow-travellers such as John McDonnell, his shadow chancellor, and Seumas Milne, his chief strategist, whose biggest disagreement is over whether Stalin or Trotsky is the greater inspiration. He is supported by snarling activists in the Momentum campaigning group and the Unite trade union
https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21727080-combination-brexit-and-jeremy-corbyn-could-lead-dystopia-ayn-rand-predicted?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/inbritainatlasisabouttoshrug0 -
I'm a Remainer (in spirit and heart even though it's not possible now in practice) and I can honestly say that I didn't get even slightly excited about any of the stuff on your list. I've had a feeling of impending doom throughout the entire process and I still do. 52% of the UK voted to leave the EU and there's nothing to be done about it. That has to be respected. So we Remainers are finished - unless something totally unforeseen happens. That's the reality as I see it.Mortimer said:I see Remainers are letting themselves get all overexcited again this morning.
Golden rule of Brexit is that the better Remainers think something is for them, the worse it plays for them in the country:
- Obama
- Osborne and his various predictions of doom
- Debates
- The actual vote
- Gina Miller's Legal challenge
- The GE
- Keir Starmer
You'd think they'd have learned by now...
Thank you for using the word Remainer rather than the taunting Remoaner word that so many of your less thoughtful fellow winners use to kick us while we are down. That one really vicious word, especially when used in the printed media and on TV, is quite high (in my opinion) on the list of reasons why the country is not showing any signs of uniting.0 -
The Chartists wanted annual elections, as that would force MPs to listen to voters.surbiton said:If it is such a good idea, you should have another election soon.
It seems one way and another we're getting them by default. In England we've had, counting the referendum, a national election every year for three years. In Scotland on a like-for-like basis they have managed a remarkable five in four.0 -
But it's a Remainery cake eaten later in a remainery way so it's totally wonderful and very different to anything the ghastly Brexiteers could do because they are really ghastly er Brexiteery and Mayweather winning was down to Bexit Britain.foxinsoxuk said:
It is a rather "cake and eat it" position by Labour, but on the face of it very sale able. Not likely to survive contact with reality of course, but that is fine in opposition without an immediate election on the cards.SouthamObserver said:
For sure. But if everyone sticks to the script it will make it much easier for Labour to critique the government's shambolic efforts. That's become a lot more important as it looks like Davis is planning a walk-out from the negotiations and another big step towards the cliff edge.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is possible, especially as Labour's conference comes first, but it will probably only matter if it splits the Labour Party itself. I'm really not convinced the precise details of hard vs soft or EFTA vs WTO or Norweigan vs Swiss much exercise the voter on the Clapham omnibus.SouthamObserver said:
The big question over Labour's unambiguous embrace of Soft Brexit is whether it can survive its first contact with "off-the-cuff" remarks from the party leader. Corbyn could kill the whole thing off in one or two sentences. He may well do so.DecrepitJohnL said:OGH's OP reminds us that pairing has stopped, so Labour will be looking to ambush the government (and I expect CCHQ will already have tapped up any Tory donors with private jets that can be made available to fly the DUP back from Northern Ireland at very short notice).
The spin will be that Labour is playing games while Brexit is the most vital issue facing Britain since 1940 -- so important that everyone's gone on holiday for three months.
All the talk of 1 vs 2 year transitions hinges on a deal being signed off by both parties, the default is no transition, just hard Brexit on day 1. No deal means no transition.0 -
One wonders if Starmer ran his leak to the Observer past Jezza ?Allan said:Douglas Carswell✔ @DouglasCarswell
"I see Continuity Remain has got back from its villa in Umbria and is making every effort to get its narrative into the newspapers"0 -
What's loser Carswell doing these days ?Allan said:Douglas Carswell✔ @DouglasCarswell
"I see Continuity Remain has got back from its villa in Umbria and is making every effort to get its narrative into the newspapers"0
