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@CornishJohn - Here's the explanation of erga omnes in relation to EU tariffs:

Erga omnes is the legal term for obligations or rights towards all. For instance, if a product's customs duty is "erga omnes", it is applicable to imports from all countries.

However developing countries have advantageous conditions to enter the EU market. You may not have to pay the full tariff –or indeed any at all-. Hence, next to the "erga omnes" tariff, you may find the preferential agreement that your country has and the reduced tariff it implies.

Your country may be eligible for more than one preferential arrangement with the EU. If so, you can choose the most advantageous one for you, provided you meet the conditions.

"Erga omnes" is also commonly referred to as "Most Favoured Nation" treatment, in WTO jargon

http://exporthelp.europa.eu/thdapp/display.htm?page=it/it_Tips__TricksOnEUTariffs.html&docType=main&languageId=en

Allan said:

TGOHF said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MikeSmithson said:

nigel4england said:

GIN1138 said:

OldKingCole said:

TGOHF said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/899572678725697536

Is Vince still appearing with him on 9th September ?

Vince wasn’t ever doing so was he? I though LD HQ had squashed that one.

I think Sir Vince might have flirted with him for a while... But then Mike and Vince threw him under the proverbial bus in a thread on Friday...

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/08/17/calling-theresa-may-a-nazi-totally-undermines-chapmans-anti-brexit-crusade/

Mike took him seriously at first though, just shows how desperate the Remainers are

Whenever anybody describes an action as desperate it mean they are worried it might be effective.

You might have made that argument successfully a week ago.

Do you seriously believe that anyone is "worried" Chapman might be effective now with hindsight?

Effective at torpedoing the continuity Remainers.

The Chappers incident has basically holed any new party below the waterline.
That is a great result for Cable and Corbyn...
Any conspiricy theory should start from there.

One might be tempted to remark on how the flapping white coats are no longer hard line Eurosceptics but hard line Europhiles.

This has always been the case. Europe has many different nations but the idea that centuries old nation-states should be effectively abolished and combined into a new nation called "Europe" is about as ideological as it gets. The only difference being that hitherto this vision has progressed remarkably far.

The gap between insanity and genius is measured only by success.

Philip_Thompson said:

MikeSmithson said:

nigel4england said:

GIN1138 said:

OldKingCole said:

TGOHF said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/899572678725697536

Is Vince still appearing with him on 9th September ?

Vince wasn’t ever doing so was he? I though LD HQ had squashed that one.

I think Sir Vince might have flirted with him for a while... But then Mike and Vince threw him under the proverbial bus in a thread on Friday...

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/08/17/calling-theresa-may-a-nazi-totally-undermines-chapmans-anti-brexit-crusade/

Mike took him seriously at first though, just shows how desperate the Remainers are

Whenever anybody describes an action as desperate it mean they are worried it might be effective.

You might have made that argument successfully a week ago.

Do you seriously believe that anyone is "worried" Chapman might be effective now with hindsight?

I think I've got it straight:

Remainers attacking Leavers: Leavers don't like it up 'em.

Leavers attacking Remainers: playing the man, not the ball.

That £350 million would only be payable once we left the EU and stopped paying into it, so it would only be misleading if it wasn't paid after 2019.

foxinsoxuk said:

TonyE said:

williamglenn said:

CornishJohn said:

My main reluctance is that it stops us being able to bring in food tariff-free from Africa, which continues to harm African economic growth.

We bring in food tariff-free from the vast majority of Africa today.

Just to pick a random example: tomatoes from Zimbabwe - 0%.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20170821&Area=ZW&Taric=0702000007

A selective example of which there may be many, but there are also serious negative impacts on Africa from the way it trades (especially in Agriculture) with EU states.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-s-food-imports-pose-tricky-balance-for-hungry-africans/

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

It's not always a good deal for Africa, and in fact since the alteration of the old Preferential Treatment Deals that EU nations had with the ACP (WTO case was brought by the USA), the commission has rather exploited the situation to open up African Markets at great advantage to the EU.

Free Trade is often the expression of imperial power.

Similarly the NAFTA agreement has destroyed more Mexican agricultural jobs than the number of manufacturing jobs created.

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/11/24/what-weve-learned-from-nafta/under-nafta-mexico-suffered-and-the-united-states-felt-its-pain?referer=https://www.google.co.uk/&nytmobile=0

Indeed the move to growing and smuggling drugs in Caribbean and Mexico is in part driven by lack of other agricultural work. It is not just British farmers and diabetes specialists who fear the import of cheap, high calorie American foodstuffs.

Wow. Did you really just write that?

I'm going to pretend it's a copy and paste, because I think you're cleverer than that.

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Osborne's latest - https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-high-price-looms-as-brexit-reality-bites-a3616306.html

He [Davis] wrote that “both sides need to move swiftly on to discussing our future partnership and we want that to happen after the European Council in October”. So much for constructive ambiguity about what Britain needs. Read Mr Davis’s article closely, and gone is the pretence that Britain can walk away from the table. The phrase “no deal is better than a bad deal” is absent.

Who cares about Osborne's daily bullshit?

Andrew Lilico‏ @andrew_lilico 33m
The ill-will towards Britain seeps through every paragraph. https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-high-price-looms-as-brexit-reality-bites-a3616306.html … Extraordinary.

Osborne rightly labelled as unpatriotic. Not a good position for any person harbouring ambitions to be PM/

Casino_Royale said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MikeSmithson said:

nigel4england said:

GIN1138 said:

OldKingCole said:

TGOHF said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/899572678725697536

Is Vince still appearing with him on 9th September ?

Vince wasn’t ever doing so was he? I though LD HQ had squashed that one.

I think Sir Vince might have flirted with him for a while... But then Mike and Vince threw him under the proverbial bus in a thread on Friday...

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/08/17/calling-theresa-may-a-nazi-totally-undermines-chapmans-anti-brexit-crusade/

Mike took him seriously at first though, just shows how desperate the Remainers are

Whenever anybody describes an action as desperate it mean they are worried it might be effective.

You might have made that argument successfully a week ago.

Do you seriously believe that anyone is "worried" Chapman might be effective now with hindsight?

I think I've got it straight:
Remainers attacking Leavers: Leavers don't like it up 'em.
Leavers attacking Remainers: playing the man, not the ball.

Leavers and the non-aligned feeling worried about the mental health of a Remainer who was firing off insults, lies and muck.

AlastairMeeks said:

@CycleFree: Genuine question here Mr M: how do you think Leavers should confront their campaign? And how do you think it might make a difference?
-----
Good question.

For the moment I'm concerned with those Leavers for whom immigration is not the paramount concern. So the free traders and sovereigntists. (The anti-immigration gang will still be running around celebrating right up to the point that they lose their jobs or the local hospital shuts down, so they aren't worth bothering with for now.)

Following the referendum result, that group of Leavers appealed to Remainers to make common cause with them to secure an EEA-type deal for now. Unsurprisingly, that bombed. Why on earth would Remainers make common cause with people who had behaved cynically and despicably but were entirely unrepentant, for the Remain side to take the rap for what the Faragites would label a betrayal of the referendum vote? The next stab in the back from the EEA Leavers was telegraphed a mile off. It was in any case wholly inconsistent with how the referendum was won.

So the entire post-referendum process has been driven by the headbangers. You can see the distaste and creeping fear of the EEA Leavers but they have to date taken no responsibility for the state of affairs that they in large part created.

What can they do about it now? Until there is some public and clear acknowledgement at the most senior level that they allowed themselves to be carried along with a campaign and a prospectus that with hindsight they now deeply regret for its meaning and impact, the headbangers will win. So they need to start there.

This will involve severe loss of credibility. [....]

Where things go from there, I don't know. But that, followed by the inevitable public debate on these matters, must be the necessary first step.

I think Leavers need to take responsibility for the consequences of the decision to leave the EU. Leavers moan more about what's happening with Brexit than Remoaners do, although there's plenty of that too. Leavers need to lay out a way forward with the compromises they are prepared to make to achieve a Brexit that the large majority of people in the UK can live with. Something they have never done before or after the referendum. Unless they take responsibility Brexit has no chance of being a success.

So, for example, David Davis' department last week issued "position" papers on customs arrangements and the Irish border that are pure wishful thinking. What do they want? EU Customs Union or trade barriers and a hard border with Ireland? Unless Leavers face up to these kinds of trade offs, Brexit will fail on their terms. A warm sense of grievance against Remainers and the EU doesn't compensate for a failed Brexit.

Picking up on the most important topic of the day: does anyone know where in the UK you can buy decent taramasalata? The stuff that's sold in the supermarkets is an abomination. I used to work near a little Cypriot sandwich bar where they made their own, which was delicious, but the place no longer exists.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Plot foiled to blow up UAE-bound plane with Barbie doll bomb
http://news.sky.com/story/plot-foiled-to-blow-up-uae-bound-plane-with-barbie-doll-bomb-10999147

https://twitter.com/teecee_85/status/899248164892495873

https://twitter.com/justinhendrix/status/899432213833535488

619 said:

PRESIDENTIAL

https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/899456246360748032

Would he be more concerned if it wasn't called McCain?

Political coverage in the Evening Standard is, unsurprisingly, very much improved since Osborne became editor. His leader pieces in particular are superb - the latest being a good example.

Allan said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Osborne's latest - https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-high-price-looms-as-brexit-reality-bites-a3616306.html

He [Davis] wrote that “both sides need to move swiftly on to discussing our future partnership and we want that to happen after the European Council in October”. So much for constructive ambiguity about what Britain needs. Read Mr Davis’s article closely, and gone is the pretence that Britain can walk away from the table. The phrase “no deal is better than a bad deal” is absent.

Who cares about Osborne's daily bullshit?

Andrew Lilico‏ @andrew_lilico 33m
The ill-will towards Britain seeps through every paragraph. https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-high-price-looms-as-brexit-reality-bites-a3616306.html … Extraordinary.

Osborne rightly labelled as unpatriotic. Not a good position for any person harbouring ambitions to be PM/

Hardly extraordinary that someone who thinks that Brexit will be damaging to the nation should publish a piece saying that.
"Rightly labelled as unpatriotic" - so failing to conform to your personal biases is unpatriotic ?
You might just as well argue that anyone who votes for a party not elected as the government is unpatriotic. Absurd.

CornishJohn said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Political coverage in the Evening Standard is, unsurprisingly, very much improved since Osborne became editor. His leader pieces in particular are superb - the latest being a good example.

It is ridiculous. What is particularly silly is this new gambit of Remainers that a final payment to the EU is an additional cost to Brexit, rather than the next few years subs we were paying anyway, before eliminating the cost for everything after that.

You are rewriting history there. There was never any acknowledgement from the Leave side that there would be an exit bill at all, or indeed any significant ongoing payments.

CornishJohn said:

williamglenn said:

CornishJohn said:

What we want is a Canada-USA style smart border between the UK and Ireland.

What does Ireland want?

I don't know. The Irish PM seems to be being deliberately obstructive about putting forward any proposals.

Varadkar: "It will come as no surprise to anyone here that I do not want there to be an economic border on our island, nor do I want one between Ireland and Britain."

That's clear enough. Is Brexit incompatible with that?

CornishJohn said:

They aren't ongoing payments. They are wrapping up our exit in the next few years. It's like someone saying you should quit your gym membership to run outside as it would save you forty pounds a month. Then someone else pointing to wrapping up the three month contract would be an extra 120 and shows how exiting your gym actually costs money rather than saving it.

If you think there aren't going to be substantial ongoing payments in return for any deal, then I have a bridge to sell you.

More Brexit nonsense from one of Gove's chosen 'experts'. The subtext is that our position is weak and weakening.

https://reaction.life/cannot-agree-orderly-brexit-withdrawal-questions-without-knowing-trade-deal-will/

Come on, everyone. You’re better than this. Let’s get on with the trade talks and through them resolve these other matters at the same time. There’s a friendly mutually-beneficial deal to do. Let’s get it done.

When Brexit crashes and burns, the Brexiteers are still going to be blaming those who campaigned and voted against them...

https://twitter.com/tobyhelm/status/899619064380874752

Richard_Nabavi said:

williamglenn said:

Varadkar: "It will come as no surprise to anyone here that I do not want there to be an economic border on our island, nor do I want one between Ireland and Britain."

That's clear enough. Is Brexit incompatible with that?

What Varadkar says is indeed perfectly clear. It's also identical to what the UK wants. The only question is whether the rest of the EU27 want it; so far, they are not showing much sign of doing so.

No economic border is not possible if the UK (in particular Northern Ireland) leaves the single market and customs union. You're overindulging in cakeism lately.

TGOHF said:

williamglenn said:

CornishJohn said:

FF43 said:

CornishJohn said:

williamglenn said:

FF43 said:

So, for example, David Davis' department last week issued "position" papers on customs arrangements and the Irish border that are pure wishful thinking. What do they want? EU Customs Union or trade barriers and a hard border with Ireland? Unless Leavers face up to these kinds of trade offs, Brexit will fail on their terms. A warm sense of grievance against Remainers and the EU doesn't compensate for a failed Brexit.

Brexiteers should be offering to pay the DUP whatever it takes for as long as it takes to get them to support special status and a de facto united Ireland. It's the only 'sufficient' solution that allows us them to move onto those wonderful trade deals.

What we want is a Canada-USA style smart border between the UK and Ireland. It's yet another case that proves that the supposed trade-off is something that exists in the fantasy of the hardliners on the EU side and the arch-Remainers in the UK that will always buy everything they throw out.

As I said earlier today, the main thing us Brexit-supporters did not anticipate is the extent to which a contingent of hardcore Remainers were willing to harm the UK to sabotage the outcome of the vote they lost. I read yesterday Keir Starmer criticising Davis for now agreeing with the EU on the ECJ ruling on EU citizens in the UK. He is the supposedly Loyal Opposition's man on Brexit, and yet he supports an EU court ruling over UK residents, with no equivalent UK court ruling over EU residents. It is jaw-dropping.

So a hard border with complex and burdensome red tape to avoid an EU customs union? I didn't pick that up that from the DExEU. I read they were proposing a "a new and special relationship" that has never been tried before.

No. The US and Canada doesn't have a hard border. It has checkpoints in some places (as would exist at Calais) and open roads in other places (as would exist in Northern Ireland).

There is a certain power dynamic in relations between the US and Canada. In terms of the UK/Ireland border the mistake Brexiteers make is in thinking that we are in the role of the US, when in fact we are in the role of Canada.

ROI is the USA in your scenario ?

Boggling.

Yes, it clearly does boggle the minds of Brexiteers. They can't fathom how the EU can multiply the sovereignty of a member state to allow it to defend its interests with the full weight of the community behind it.

williamglenn said:

Yes, it clearly does boggle the minds of Brexiteers. They can't fathom how the EU can multiply the sovereignty of a member state to allow it to defend its interests with the full weight of the community behind it.

The list of things that can boggle the minds of Brexiteers is long and varied

TGOHF said:

williamglenn said:

There is a certain power dynamic in relations between the US and Canada. In terms of the UK/Ireland border the mistake Brexiteers make is in thinking that we are in the role of the US, when in fact we are in the role of Canada.

ROI is the USA in your scenario ?
Boggling.

Not the ROI, but the EU, of which the ROI is a part.

Chappers being given a private plane (at tax payers expense?) to get out of Greece after falling foul of the Police?

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899615702834970626

And...

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899618846272872449

Who knew Greece was the EU version of North Korea?

williamglenn said:

No economic border is not possible if the UK (in particular Northern Ireland) leaves the single market and customs union. You're overindulging in cakeism lately.

You speak as though the workings of the EU are immutable laws of nature. But of course they are not, they are a set of political conventions made by the EU states. They have a choice: they can come up with some fudge which accommodates the needs of Eire, is good for the UK, and is good for the other EU countries. Or they can choose not to.

It's up to them. I don't know what they will do, the signs we are getting are quite mixed, and the institutional inertia is a big problem. There is certainly a significant risk of an outcome disastrous for all parties. On the positive side, the EU's capacity for bureaucratic fudge is unsurpassed; this is, after all, an organisation which maintains simultaneously that northern Cyprus is both in the EU and not in the EU. We'll have to see what they can come up with in relation to Brexit.

F1: still no markets up, alas. Hopefully will be this evening...

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Do we have any news on what he was arrested for?

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Poor chap. His wife must be getting really alarmed. Would have thought that unless there’s some serious problem he could be escorted home, though.

OldKingCole said:

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Poor chap. His wife must be getting really alarmed. Would have thought that unless there’s some serious problem he could be escorted home, though.

He says Boris is providing him with a private plane out of Greece (presumably at tax payers expense?) so I think he'll be back "home" safe and sound shortly.

ThreeQuidder said:

GIN1138 said:

Essexit said:

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Do we have any news on what he was arrested for?

You can keep up with the latest twists here;

https://twitter.com/James08209590/with_replies

Any evidence that is actually him?

Well he's posted this picture;

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899622683461242880

Personally I don't know him well enough to be able to identify him... Over to TSE!

CarlottaVance said:

Essexit said:

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Do we have any news on what he was arrested for?

So far there is only one source - himself - and its not entirely clear how reliable a witness he is.....if he's right Theresa May ordered it to silence him.........

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899620394050695168

What does the Tweet say? Not visible on work PC.

GIN1138 said:

ThreeQuidder said:

GIN1138 said:

Essexit said:

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Do we have any news on what he was arrested for?

You can keep up with the latest twists here;

https://twitter.com/James08209590/with_replies

Any evidence that is actually him?

Well he's posted this picture;

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899622683461242880

Personally I don't know him well enough to be able to identify him... Over to TSE!

Looks like the pics posted on his original Twitter account - https://twitter.com/jameschappers?lang=en

Now blocked, he says.

Richard_Nabavi said:

williamglenn said:

No economic border is not possible if the UK (in particular Northern Ireland) leaves the single market and customs union. You're overindulging in cakeism lately.

You speak as though the workings of the EU are immutable laws of nature. But of course they are not, they are a set of political conventions made by the EU states. They have a choice: they can come up with some fudge which accommodates the needs of Eire, is good for the UK, and is good for the other EU countries. Or they can choose not to.

They are immutable by force of one member state alone throwing its weight around, even in the context of an exit negotiation. That must not and will not be allowed to stand.

Ishmael_Z said:

Essexit said:

CarlottaVance said:

Essexit said:

CarlottaVance said:

It seems Mr Chapman has sent the wife & kids on ahead as the police still have his passport - and he's been declared unfit to travel - lets hope for his sake in particular but also all our sakes in general he makes it back safely to the UK, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it.....

Do we have any news on what he was arrested for?

So far there is only one source - himself - and its not entirely clear how reliable a witness he is.....if he's right Theresa May ordered it to silence him.........

https://twitter.com/James08209590/status/899620394050695168

What does the Tweet say? Not visible on work PC.

"Having motorcycle helmet forced on head as snarling Greek copper said important people wanted me quiet most frightening moment of my life."

Thanks.

CornishJohn said:

As others have said, I think he's not well.

Clearly something has happened since this very lucid interview last month.

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/james-chapman-daily-mail

ThreeQuidder said:

I can't see how that follows. Certainly allowing trade to continue without disruption is at lease as much in their interest as ours.

It's certainly in their interest, but disruption would be worse for us, simply because it would affect a higher proportion of our economy than would be case for most of the EU27. Of course it varies a lot: Eire would be very badly hit (perhaps even worse hit than us), some of the other small countries very dependent on UK tourism would be badly hit, and the big exporting countries like Germany and France could suffer a nasty jolt. The danger is that, like the Brexiteers, they think that's a price worth paying or simply underestimate the price, or that they are so tied up in their own bureaucratic log-jam that they are incapable of looking after their own interests.

Richard_Nabavi said:

ThreeQuidder said:

I can't see how that follows. Certainly allowing trade to continue without disruption is at lease as much in their interest as ours.

It's certainly in their interest, but disruption would be worse for us, simply because it would affect a higher proportion of our economy than would be case for most of the EU27. Of course it varies a lot: Eire would be very badly hit (perhaps even worse hit than us), some of the other small countries very dependent on UK tourism would be badly hit, and the big exporting countries like Germany and France could suffer a nasty jolt. The danger is that, like the Brexiteers, they think that's a price worth paying or simply underestimate the price, or that they are so tied up in their own bureaucratic log-jam that they are incapable of looking after their own interests.

The other problem is negotiating delays clearly benefit them over us. If it is uncertain whether there will be a UK-EU FTA in place in July 2019, it will have minimal effects on EU firms' investment plans, while it might well have a meaningful effect on ours.

For this reason, I would expect that the EU will only concede on financial services at 11:59pm on the very last day. In this way, some firms shift their presence from the UK to the EU, wven though they needn't have.