politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is the trend in TMay’s YouGov “best PM” ratings that should
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Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...0
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And Con, and Lib Dem....Bobajob_PB said:
Interesting. Swings to Labour.CarlottaVance said:
Talking of which:NickPalmer said:
some really horrible by-elections.Gadfly said:"Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.
May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.
May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878028076097187840
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878025508394369024
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/8780063765466603530 -
Seems that Theresa Mays government is on the side of the gambler, I am sure all shrewdies welcome this
https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-gambling#withdrawal-amounts-further-call-for-your-views0 -
Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.0
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Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.0 -
The main thing that has happened over the last two or three years is that people have started to notice things are not working in their favour. We may not have had balance sheet austerity, but there have been major and noticeable cuts to public services across the board, prices have started to rise and most incomes are stagnant. Corbyn offers (deeply flawed) solutions. The Tories promise more of the same. It's no surprise more and more people are taking the Corbyn option. The Tories have some serious thinking to do. Are they really doing all they can to help the Just About Managing?JosiasJessop said:
It could be worse, but that does not equate with 'very good'.Casino_Royale said:
I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.JosiasJessop said:It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.
The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.
They just chose not to fight on it.
The rise of Labour under a hard-left leader shows that the Conservatives are not taking massive numbers of the country with them. An election fought on: "Urgh! Look at the man leading the opposition!" is not a positive reason to vote for them.
If they continue in that manner then they'll get thrashed in the next election. Yes, Labour's campaign was filled with lots of nasty 'Tories are evil baby-eaters', but they also had lots of positive sweeties for people who feel that they've been left behind. Yes, it may be unaffordable. Yes, it may be disastrous for the country in the long term. But at least someone is offering them something positive for them.
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F1: when not worried about the terrible/amazing/voided bets, one of the more normal things I was considering was McLaren drivers to get points. But they're starting at the back of the grid. Also, the long straight means they'll get murdered on it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40371503
No wonder they want Mercedes' engines.0 -
Roger said:
Very interesting. With any other POTUS the US would see the writing on the wall and realise what dealing with Saudi and the Gulf States looks like. Promoting democracy in the region with those countries as allies looks pretty hollowCarlottaVance said:If I was Qatar I'd be sorely tempted to refer Saudi Arabia to the reply given in Arkell vs Pressdram:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-qatar-diplomatic-feud-latest-al-jazeera-demands-list-uae-egypt-bahrain-a7803981.html
I would be very sad to see Al Jazerra close down - it provides excellent reporting and appears pretty unbiased - no wonder the Saudi's hate it. Bit tricky fighting a war with Qatar when the US has a huge base there.....with the UK in a corner of it.....0 -
The EU's position is already more generous than May's proposal. The offer from May is simply a running commentary for the benefit of the media - exactly what she promised not to do.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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Theresa isn't so much failing, but crashing. I don't understand why she hasn't gone yet. We urgently need someone in the EU who isn't damaged goods. She has zero authority.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.0 -
Writes the man who thinks '35' is statistically different to '34'.....MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.0 -
Yes - she wants reciprocity based on the deal she is offering, which is worse for UK citizens in the EU27 than the deal the EU is offering.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
However, it is wise to remember that this is an opening offer. Such is the weakness of the UK's negotiating hand that the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.
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She'd be gone were Tories not worrying about starting any train of events that ends in an early election. She may still be gone, once the summer holiday starts.Jonathan said:
Theresa isn't so much failing, but crashing. I don't understand why she hasn't gone yet. We urgently need someone in the EU who isn't damaged goods. She has zero authority.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.0 -
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his. However, it is a remarkable turnaround since April.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
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Ask Boris?SouthamObserver said:
The main thing that has happened over the last two or three years is that people have started to notice things are not working in their favour. We may not have had balance sheet austerity, but there have been major and noticeable cuts to public services across the board, prices have started to rise and most incomes are stagnant. Corbyn offers (deeply flawed) solutions. The Tories promise more of the same. It's no surprise more and more people are taking the Corbyn option. The Tories have some serious thinking to do. Are they really doing all they can to help the Just About Managing?JosiasJessop said:
It could be worse, but that does not equate with 'very good'.Casino_Royale said:
I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.JosiasJessop said:It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.
The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.
They just chose not to fight on it.
The rise of Labour under a hard-left leader shows that the Conservatives are not taking massive numbers of the country with them. An election fought on: "Urgh! Look at the man leading the opposition!" is not a positive reason to vote for them.
If they continue in that manner then they'll get thrashed in the next election. Yes, Labour's campaign was filled with lots of nasty 'Tories are evil baby-eaters', but they also had lots of positive sweeties for people who feel that they've been left behind. Yes, it may be unaffordable. Yes, it may be disastrous for the country in the long term. But at least someone is offering them something positive for them.0 -
Good job the EU is looking after UK citizens - shame our government isn't doing it's job.SouthamObserver said:
Yes - she wants reciprocity based on the deal she is offering, which is worse for UK citizens in the EU27 than the deal the EU is offering.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
However, it is wise to remember that this is an opening offer. Such is the weakness of the UK's negotiating hand that the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.
I bet many UK citizens would opt for EU citizenship given the option.0 -
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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We can all agree that 39 is statistically different from -1. Which is the rather more important point that you're desperate to avoid commenting on.CarlottaVance said:
Writes the man who thinks '35' is statistically different to '34'.....MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
If Theresa May were a tree, the lumberjack would be yelling "TIMBER".0 -
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It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
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So if May survives we can expect 'May's ratings recover' threads?SouthamObserver said:
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
No, didn't think so.....
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The thing is May was far more open that things aren't working than Cameron and Osborne would or could have been.SouthamObserver said:
The main thing that has happened over the last two or three years is that people have started to notice things are not working in their favour. We may not have had balance sheet austerity, but there have been major and noticeable cuts to public services across the board, prices have started to rise and most incomes are stagnant. Corbyn offers (deeply flawed) solutions. The Tories promise more of the same. It's no surprise more and more people are taking the Corbyn option. The Tories have some serious thinking to do. Are they really doing all they can to help the Just About Managing?JosiasJessop said:
It could be worse, but that does not equate with 'very good'.Casino_Royale said:
I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.JosiasJessop said:It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.
The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.
They just chose not to fight on it.
The rise of Labour under a hard-left leader shows that the Conservatives are not taking massive numbers of the country with them. An election fought on: "Urgh! Look at the man leading the opposition!" is not a positive reason to vote for them.
If they continue in that manner then they'll get thrashed in the next election. Yes, Labour's campaign was filled with lots of nasty 'Tories are evil baby-eaters', but they also had lots of positive sweeties for people who feel that they've been left behind. Yes, it may be unaffordable. Yes, it may be disastrous for the country in the long term. But at least someone is offering them something positive for them.
But its possible that May acknowledging that there are problems but failing to offer solutions was the worst thing that could have been done from a Conservative electoral viewpoint.
Still its good that these issues are being discussed more.0 -
Simple, just let people individually decide which they'd rather be!CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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CarlottaVance said:
So if May survives we can expect 'May's ratings recover' threads?SouthamObserver said:
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
No, didn't think so.....
Talking to yourself again?CarlottaVance said:
So if May survives we can expect 'May's ratings recover' threads?SouthamObserver said:
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
No, didn't think so.....0 -
But she isn't. And the Tory party remains mute.AlastairMeeks said:
If Theresa May were a tree, the lumberjack would be yelling "TIMBER".CarlottaVance said:
Writes the man who thinks '35' is statistically different to '34'.....MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.0 -
The general election came just a bit too soon for the Liberal Democrats. Mrs May knew what she was doing. Didn`t she?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
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Plus te huge bonus of Fox Gove Leadsom and Patel resigning (if by then they have anywhere to resign from)SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
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Sadly, I think she might be more like one of those skeleton elms you used to see standing for years after dutch elm disease had got them.AlastairMeeks said:
We can all agree that 39 is statistically different from -1. Which is the rather more important point that you're desperate to avoid commenting on.CarlottaVance said:
Writes the man who thinks '35' is statistically different to '34'.....MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
If Theresa May were a tree, the lumberjack would be yelling "TIMBER".0 -
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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Just watched clip from Question Time last night showing Dimbleby ordereing a Corbynista to leave and the audience resounding applause. A real warning to the hard left
As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate0 -
Alternative scenarios are interesting, but if you had been a hermit for the last few years and we're told that scenario and what has actually happened, which would have seemed the more likely?IanB2 said:
Lol. Andy Burnham would be Labour leader. And probably PM by now. With the Tories under Leadsome or somesuch, reliving the joys of the IDS era.nichomar said:The root cause of the current situation we are in was those labour MP's that put Corbyn on the ballot to
widen the choice. If they had not then in all likelyhood the referendum result would have been different
and May would not be PM and there wouldntbean election until 2019. Which may have resulted in a labour
win depending on what happened with UKIP.0 -
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Morning all, on the first anniversary of an historic day in Britain's history!0
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Mr. NorthWales, I'd be wary of ever considering a QT audience necessarily indicative of public opinion.
The sister show, AQ, had an edition about a decade ago now in a mosque. Mehdi Hasan claimed Muslims were being treated like the Jews in the 1930s, and got loud applause.
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Oh dear, is she the best you have?Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched clip from Question Time last night showing Dimbleby ordereing a Corbynista to leave and the audience resounding applause. A real warning to the hard left
As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate0 -
Faisal Islam is Juncker's UK stoogeCarlottaVance said:0 -
Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/8781564633188802560 -
Yep, shouty man being slung out of QT and the audience response is a warning to Corbynista's everywhere how this could all go horribly wrong for Jezza and Johnny Mac...Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched clip from Question Time last night showing Dimbleby ordereing a Corbynista to leave and the audience resounding applause. A real warning to the hard left
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Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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People said whoever came to power after the financial crisis would have to make such large cuts they would be out of power for a generation.....7 years later they are stil the government.GIN1138 said:
Possibly.... But some things are more important than party politics.ScarfNZ said:If the Conservatives deliver BREXIT ......... they will be out of power for a generation!
people need to stop making these predictions.0 -
All will be revealed in time. I am relaxed about the position at presentlogical_song said:
Oh dear, is she the best you have?Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched clip from Question Time last night showing Dimbleby ordereing a Corbynista to leave and the audience resounding applause. A real warning to the hard left
As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate0 -
Today is the anniversary (1942) of the first selection of Jews picked to go to the Auschwitz gas chambers.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I'd be wary of ever considering a QT audience necessarily indicative of public opinion.
The sister show, AQ, had an edition about a decade ago now in a mosque. Mehdi Hasan claimed Muslims were being treated like the Jews in the 1930s, and got loud applause.0 -
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
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Labour should put it in their manifesto.....SouthamObserver said:
Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
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It is. Sadly, with Labour under its current leadership it will not be a particularly sensible discussion. Social care is one area that May did open up the possibility of a serious discussion. The sensible Burnham solution was scuppered by Cameron, Osborne and Lansley, and that is the one a sensible Labour party would go back to.another_richard said:
The thing is May was far more open that things aren't working than Cameron and Osborne would or could have been.SouthamObserver said:
The main thing that has happened over the last two or three years is that people have started to notice things are not working in their favour. We may not have had balance sheet austerity, but there have been major and noticeable cuts to public services across the board, prices have started to rise and most incomes are stagnant. Corbyn offers (deeply flawed) solutions. The Tories promise more of the same. It's no surprise more and more people are taking the Corbyn option. The Tories have some serious thinking to do. Are they really doing all they can to help the Just About Managing?JosiasJessop said:
It could be worse, but that does not equate with 'very good'.Casino_Royale said:
I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.JosiasJessop said:It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.
The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.
They just chose not to fight on it.
The rise of Labour under a hard-left leader shows that the Conservatives are not taking massive numbers of the country with them. An election fought on: "Urgh! Look at the man leading the opposition!" is not a positive reason to vote for them.
If they continue in that manner then they'll get thrashed in the next election. Yes, Labour's campaign was filled with lots of nasty 'Tories are evil baby-eaters', but they also had lots of positive sweeties for people who feel that they've been left behind. Yes, it may be unaffordable. Yes, it may be disastrous for the country in the long term. But at least someone is offering them something positive for them.
But its possible that May acknowledging that there are problems but failing to offer solutions was the worst thing that could have been done from a Conservative electoral viewpoint.
Still its good that these issues are being discussed more.
0 -
Surprised to see Finland with such a high level of youth unemployment?CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/8781564633188802560 -
He was behaving as a complete pratt and was dismissed and relief was felt by allMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I'd be wary of ever considering a QT audience necessarily indicative of public opinion.
The sister show, AQ, had an edition about a decade ago now in a mosque. Mehdi Hasan claimed Muslims were being treated like the Jews in the 1930s, and got loud applause.0 -
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
0 -
Maybe right for the party, but absolutely not for the country. She carries no weight. She is damaged goods. The EU can safely ignore her knowing that sometime, maybe quite soon, she will be gone.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate
For that reason alone she should be gone already. Even, dare I say it, if that is sub-optimal for the Tory party.
0 -
They should. And so should the Tories and all other parties.CarlottaVance said:
Labour should put it in their manifesto.....SouthamObserver said:
Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
0 -
One of my guaranteed daily tasks is shredding Spanish CVs. I get dozens per day.CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/878156463318880256
There aren't enough bird cages in the world to use them all as lining.0 -
Mr. NorthWales, indeed, but a single incident involving one pillock and a small audience can't be considered a statistically balanced sample.
An awful lot of people are supporting Corbyn. Some are hard left, others simply unfamiliar with basic economics and lacking any grasp of history so recent it's practically current affairs.
Speaking of such things, any word on Davey yet? He and Cable are 3/1.36 or so on Ladbrokes now.0 -
He did, but let's not canonise him. The French system hugely rewards moderate candidates through the 2nd preference system, and there were huge abstentions in the parliamentary elections, where he barely got 40% turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
At least in the UK we got a GE with a very high turnout of almost 70%.0 -
Yes, he was shouting the loudest, jumping up and down, stamping his feet and generally making an round nuisance of himself until finally everyone had had enough of him and his distributive influence and he was sent him packing...Big_G_NorthWales said:
He was behaving as a complete pratt and was dismissed and relief was felt by allMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I'd be wary of ever considering a QT audience necessarily indicative of public opinion.
The sister show, AQ, had an edition about a decade ago now in a mosque. Mehdi Hasan claimed Muslims were being treated like the Jews in the 1930s, and got loud applause.
Could be a metaphor for Jezza in there somewhere,,,0 -
So the EU was working out quite well for the UK here. I wonder if that unemployment figure will go up or down post Brexit.GeoffM said:
One of my guaranteed daily tasks is shredding Spanish CVs. I get dozens per day.CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/878156463318880256
There aren't enough bird cages in the world to use them all as lining.0 -
If she survives the summer her ratings will recover somewhat. Remember just weeks ago Meeks etc were saying how likely it was the Tories were going to gain a massive landslide and gain Camerthen East and Dinefwr.Bobajob_PB said:CarlottaVance said:
So if May survives we can expect 'May's ratings recover' threads?SouthamObserver said:
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
No, didn't think so.....
Talking to yourself again?CarlottaVance said:
So if May survives we can expect 'May's ratings recover' threads?SouthamObserver said:
May is probably at the bottom of her range now; Corbyn at the top of his.MikeSmithson said:
Clearly you don't understand he electoral system. You see so desperate to speak up for failing Theresa.CarlottaVance said:
And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....TheScreamingEagles said:
The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.CarlottaVance said:
Posh boy squared....TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave could be PM from the Lords.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?
They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
No, didn't think so.....0 -
Islam is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Faisal Islam is Juncker's UK stoogeCarlottaVance said:Druncker:
https0 -
Mr Observer,
"The sensible Burnham solution was scuppered by Cameron, Osborne and Lansley, and that is the one a sensible Labour party would go back to."
That encapsulates the problem with party politics. When Burnham makes a sensible proposal, he sought to bash the Tories over it, and the Tories rejected it for party advantage even though it was clearly the way forward.
0 -
I'm pondering what effect Glastonbury might have on all this. I'm not entirely sure the sight of thousands of middle class kids chanting 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' is going to play well with the working class, the older demographic and against the backdrop of the grim national situation.
It's got the possibility to be a Sheffield Rally type moment. I say this as someone who is firmly opposed to the Tories now, but I just can't see a positive in this sort of scene for Labour and Corbyn.
The one key thing he will find with youth political support is that it is very transient and not ever so deep. Not many early twenties will be pounding the doorsteps canvassing twixt now and the next GE.
If the July 1 million man March turns to shit it may all start to smell pretty foul.
Festivals, Dear boy, festivals.0 -
On low turnouts, he really is their Blair.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.0 -
She would have been better off in the short term at least if she hadn't called the election but she may well have done even worse if she'd left it until the Autumn.PClipp said:
The general election came just a bit too soon for the Liberal Democrats. Mrs May knew what she was doing. Didn`t she?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
0 -
You don't believe in the electorate being given a choice?SouthamObserver said:
They should. And so should the Tories and all other parties.CarlottaVance said:
Labour should put it in their manifesto.....SouthamObserver said:
Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
0 -
Is it possible - and bear with me on this - that no-one beyond a few Corbynista fans will remotely give a shit?dyedwoolie said:I'm pondering what effect Glastonbury might have on all this. I'm not entirely sure the sight of thousands of middle class kids chanting 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' is going to play well with the working class, the older demographic and against the backdrop of the grim national situation.
It's got the possibility to be a Sheffield Rally type moment. I say this as someone who is firmly opposed to the Tories now, but I just can't see a positive in this sort of scene for Labour and Corbyn.
The one key thing he will find with youth political support is that it is very transient and not ever so deep. Not many early twenties will be pounding the doorsteps canvassing twist now and the next GE.
If the July 1 million man March turns to shit it may all start to smell pretty foul.
Festivals, Dear boy, festivals.0 -
Yes, the immediate wobble is probably over (black swan events notwithstanding) and you're back in the ditch with the leader after a wobble or two of your own.Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched clip from Question Time last night showing Dimbleby ordereing a Corbynista to leave and the audience resounding applause. A real warning to the hard left
As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate
The problem isn't going to go away - she is and has been diminished by events entirely of her own choosing. That is going to be hard to get past - people are waiting for her to go and an increasing number outside the immediate environs of the Conservative Party want her gone.
That infects the whole Government with a sense of decay, lack of purpose and the continual questioning of potential successors. The Thatcher Government became paralysed during 1988-90 because of this internal feuding not helped by Thatcher's own preference for Walters over Lawson (and there are clear parallels with the Timothy/Hill debacle).
The one thing she cannot afford to be is Presidential - the days of "me and my team" died on June 8th.
0 -
Last time I saw she had the most votes and most seats and a record vote share.Jonathan said:
Maybe right for the party, but absolutely not for the country. She carries no weight. She is damaged goods. The EU can safely ignore her knowing that sometime, maybe quite soon, she will be gone.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate
For that reason alone she should be gone already. Even, dare I say it, if that is sub-optimal for the Tory party.
She may or may not resign sometime but for now most seem to just want her to get on with Brexit.
Also on question time last night I was actually quite impressed with Gina Miller (Wow - did I just write that)0 -
The people who turned out voted for him. He has a huge mandate and a massive majority. The pressure is now on him to deliver, of course. But his election and Merkel's resurgence after her trip to visit Trump in the US has certainly buoyed the EU27.Casino_Royale said:
He did, but let's not canonise him. The French system hugely rewards moderate candidates through the 2nd preference system, and there were huge abstentions in the parliamentary elections, where he barely got 40% turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
At least in the UK we got a GE with a very high turnout of almost 70%.
0 -
A slightly pointless truism.SouthamObserver said:
The people who turned out voted for him.Casino_Royale said:
He did, but let's not canonise him. The French system hugely rewards moderate candidates through the 2nd preference system, and there were huge abstentions in the parliamentary elections, where he barely got 40% turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
At least in the UK we got a GE with a very high turnout of almost 70%.0 -
No, because it's application to join Scandinavia was rejected.....GIN1138 said:
Surprised to see Finland with such a high level of youth unemployment?CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/8781564633188802560 -
Corbyn is the new cool fresh thing, until he's no longer the new cool fresh thing.Jonathan said:
Is it possible - and bear with me on this - that no-one beyond a few Corbynista fans will remotely give a shit?dyedwoolie said:I'm pondering what effect Glastonbury might have on all this. I'm not entirely sure the sight of thousands of middle class kids chanting 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' is going to play well with the working class, the older demographic and against the backdrop of the grim national situation.
It's got the possibility to be a Sheffield Rally type moment. I say this as someone who is firmly opposed to the Tories now, but I just can't see a positive in this sort of scene for Labour and Corbyn.
The one key thing he will find with youth political support is that it is very transient and not ever so deep. Not many early twenties will be pounding the doorsteps canvassing twist now and the next GE.
If the July 1 million man March turns to shit it may all start to smell pretty foul.
Festivals, Dear boy, festivals.0 -
Re. YG - must be an outlier
0 -
Perfectly possible. Eyes, however, are very much on matters political at the moment so I tentatively suggest things which mid parliament would just result in minor eyeball rolling might have a slightly more important effect right now.Jonathan said:
Is it possible - and bear with me on this - that no-one beyond a few Corbynista fans will remotely give a shit?dyedwoolie said:I'm pondering what effect Glastonbury might have on all this. I'm not entirely sure the sight of thousands of middle class kids chanting 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' is going to play well with the working class, the older demographic and against the backdrop of the grim national situation.
It's got the possibility to be a Sheffield Rally type moment. I say this as someone who is firmly opposed to the Tories now, but I just can't see a positive in this sort of scene for Labour and Corbyn.
The one key thing he will find with youth political support is that it is very transient and not ever so deep. Not many early twenties will be pounding the doorsteps canvassing twist now and the next GE.
If the July 1 million man March turns to shit it may all start to smell pretty foul.
Festivals, Dear boy, festivals.0 -
So far, it's gone down in the UK.Jonathan said:
So the EU was working out quite well for the UK here. I wonder if that unemployment figure will go up or down post Brexit.GeoffM said:
One of my guaranteed daily tasks is shredding Spanish CVs. I get dozens per day.CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/878156463318880256
There aren't enough bird cages in the world to use them all as lining.0 -
Eh? There is plenty of stuff that all the parties agree on.CarlottaVance said:
You don't believe in the electorate being given a choice?SouthamObserver said:
They should. And so should the Tories and all other parties.CarlottaVance said:
Labour should put it in their manifesto.....SouthamObserver said:
Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
0 -
Mr Woolie,
Having hundreds of Corbynistas canvassing houses and shouting at the occupants would probably guarantee a landslide - to the Tories.0 -
Almost every time I have seen major strategic mistakes in business, it is when a company has plotted forward a trend line without thinking deeply about the reasons underlying the trend. The Conservatives would be doing the same thing if they panicked unnecessarily about a fall from sky high levels to normal ones.
We should remember that Theresa May won 5% more than Cameron in 2015 and 6% more than Cameron in 2010. She even won more seats than Cameron in 2010, and he was not expected to go. The difference is that Labour jumped up a lot due to the Brexit vote motivating a lot of young people to come out that the polling companies did not expect. But May's 42% is a very good level for the Conservatives to be on, and they could have a lot further to fall if they agreed a deal that upset their core support on immigration. Once Labour's youth surge falls away, and it always does in every democracy I've seen, the Tories will be in a commanding position. They should not allow Labour and Osborne's allies in the media to pursue his grudge at the cost of the party.0 -
That there should be no income criteria for bringing foreign spouses into the UK?SouthamObserver said:
Eh? There is plenty of stuff that all the parties agree on.CarlottaVance said:
You don't believe in the electorate being given a choice?SouthamObserver said:
They should. And so should the Tories and all other parties.CarlottaVance said:
Labour should put it in their manifesto.....SouthamObserver said:
Nope - the UK Parliament is perfectly capable of doing it.CarlottaVance said:
Decided by a body we are no longer a member of......you're onto a winner there!SouthamObserver said:
The simple solution to that, of course, is to give UK citizens more rights.CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
0 -
France's level of youth unemployment is terrible? Presumably this is the main reason why younger voters were tempted by Le Pen?nunu said:
No, because it's application to join Scandinavia was rejected.....GIN1138 said:
Surprised to see Finland with such a high level of youth unemployment?CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/8781564633188802560 -
We should do that thing lefty's do and say En Marche only got X% of the whole electorate whether they voted or not....Casino_Royale said:
A slightly pointless truism.SouthamObserver said:
The people who turned out voted for him.Casino_Royale said:
He did, but let's not canonise him. The French system hugely rewards moderate candidates through the 2nd preference system, and there were huge abstentions in the parliamentary elections, where he barely got 40% turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
At least in the UK we got a GE with a very high turnout of almost 70%.
0 -
You mean like Francois Hollande did ?SouthamObserver said:
Yep - the one who just won a huge majority in the Presidential and Parliamentary elections.another_richard said:
Is that the Macron who has already had multiple cabinet resignations because of sleeze ?SouthamObserver said:
It's hard to see how it can be sustained - especially if the economy weakens.Bobajob_PB said:Just catching up with YouGov. The more interesting thing than JC being fave PM (not surprising, given how pisspoor May is) is that the nation is swinging against leaving the Single Market in a big way. I expect this trend to continue. Hard Brexit is - I suspect - dying.
It is increasingly clear that May called the election to get a strong enough mandate to allow her to walk away from talks if necessary and to ride out the ensuing economic shit-storm on the back of a Never Surrender, White Cliffs of Dover wave of patriotism. The failure to secure that mandate has buggered up the UK's entire negotiation strategy. And everyone knows it. Instead, May is facing an increasingly self-confident Europe, buoyed by improving economic data and the arrival of Macron. With the totally unreliable, anti-British Trump sitting in the White House, we picked precisely the wrong time to leave the EU.
He was someone else we were told would buoy up an increasingly self-confident Europe. Not to mention end austerity and reform France.
How did that turn out ?
What do they say about Presidents of the fifth Republic ? That each is worse than the previous one.0 -
That's somewhat my point. His support is in the wrong demographic for electioneering. It makes his job more difficult.CD13 said:Mr Woolie,
Having hundreds of Corbynistas canvassing houses and shouting at the occupants would probably guarantee a landslide - to the Tories.0 -
Anyone on PB using a Virgin Super Hub router?
There is a security issue:
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/06/virgin-urges-super-hub-2-password-change/#?intcmp=HP.hero.small.2.a.wcunews.virginmediahub2.jun23
I have to say, despite being a techie, I didn't quite follow what they are saying. The Telegraph article on it is even worse. They seem to be confusing wifi password and the router's admin password. Which one did they break?
I don't have Virgin - I have BT. But the same issue of default passwords might apply.
I don't see the issue with the wifi password. The hacker would have to be within, say 100m, of your router to be able to use the wifi password on your wifi. Although I believe there may be sophisticated ariels that allow access up to 1km, but even so - nobody from Russia is going to be logging onto my home wifi.
Have I missed something?0 -
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/745787573952458752Sandpit said:Morning all, on the first anniversary of an historic day in Britain's history!
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If Davey has any real interest in the leadership it's time he threw his hat into the ring. If the plan is for Swinson to succeed Cable in a few years time it is difficult to see him get a look in next time. Davey's best chance is now.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, indeed, but a single incident involving one pillock and a small audience can't be considered a statistically balanced sample.
An awful lot of people are supporting Corbyn. Some are hard left, others simply unfamiliar with basic economics and lacking any grasp of history so recent it's practically current affairs.
Speaking of such things, any word on Davey yet? He and Cable are 3/1.36 or so on Ladbrokes now.0 -
Politics simply doesn't work that way. Since all now agree that she is definitely going, her authority is diminished.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Last time I saw she had the most votes and most seats and a record vote share.Jonathan said:
Maybe right for the party, but absolutely not for the country. She carries no weight. She is damaged goods. The EU can safely ignore her knowing that sometime, maybe quite soon, she will be gone.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate
For that reason alone she should be gone already. Even, dare I say it, if that is sub-optimal for the Tory party.
She may or may not resign sometime but for now most seem to just want her to get on with Brexit.
If I were an EU leader I would wonder if it was worth bothering with her at all. Because of that she should almost certainly go now. A newly elected leader would be less damaged goods.
The fact that Theresa May is utterly hopeless doesn't help the UK either, but that's another point.0 -
An Independence Day tribute https://youtu.be/OK376_SIxAQ0
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This was a predictable reaction to any generous offer. As we saw from Blair and Cameron's negotiations, the EU banks any offer, claims it is not enough and then demands more. The only right way to deal is what Chirac used to do and dig your heels in.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Happy up yours Delors day peebees.0
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The EU seems to have been caught completely on the hop by May's offer to EU citizens - they are scrabbling around and failing to get a common line in response - are we sure Barnier is up to the job ?
1-0 to the Uk.0 -
Saw an interview on sky with a couple of young french people. Far from the stereo-type of being skin heads they were articulate, spoke fluent English and the reasons they gave for voting for here were indistinguishable to why someone might of voted for Corbyn except when prodded by the interviewer about the recent attacks they agreed terrorism was also another reason to vote for her, in terms of "things must change".GIN1138 said:
France's level of youth unemployment is terrible? Presumably this is the main reason why younger voters were tempted by Le Pen?nunu said:
No, because it's application to join Scandinavia was rejected.....GIN1138 said:
Surprised to see Finland with such a high level of youth unemployment?CarlottaVance said:Lest we get carried away about how wonderful the EU is & how dire the UK:
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/878156463318880256
They were not frothing at the mouth about Islam or immigrants, far from it.
Yes they are anecdotes but I've heard other anecdotes very similar to that. Not saying they were right to vote for just that we musn't paint people with broad brushes.(like Le Pen does....)0 -
Nah. If anything, I would speculate that people are fed up with politics and politicians and wish that they would go away from their telly screens for a bit.dyedwoolie said:
Perfectly possible. Eyes, however, are very much on matters political at the moment so I tentatively suggest things which mid parliament would just result in minor eyeball rolling might have a slightly more important effect right now.Jonathan said:
Is it possible - and bear with me on this - that no-one beyond a few Corbynista fans will remotely give a shit?dyedwoolie said:I'm pondering what effect Glastonbury might have on all this. I'm not entirely sure the sight of thousands of middle class kids chanting 'oh Jeremy Corbyn' is going to play well with the working class, the older demographic and against the backdrop of the grim national situation.
It's got the possibility to be a Sheffield Rally type moment. I say this as someone who is firmly opposed to the Tories now, but I just can't see a positive in this sort of scene for Labour and Corbyn.
The one key thing he will find with youth political support is that it is very transient and not ever so deep. Not many early twenties will be pounding the doorsteps canvassing twist now and the next GE.
If the July 1 million man March turns to shit it may all start to smell pretty foul.
Festivals, Dear boy, festivals.
If Corbyn is vulnerable to anything it's not understanding that, because he lives and breathes politics 24/7.0 -
Criticising the media/journalists for daring to speak and share the truth.Casino_Royale said:
Islam is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Faisal Islam is Juncker's UK stoogeCarlottaVance said:Druncker:
https
The similarities between Leavers and Corbynistas are so blindingly obvious.0 -
What additional right would that have (in the UK)?CarlottaVance said:
Which would have EU citizens having greater rights in the UK than UK citizens. Good luck selling that on the doorstep....SouthamObserver said:
the final settlement is almost certain to be much more favourable to British citizens than the one their government has put on the table.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, news last night a condition of May's offer was reciprocity for British citizens in the EU...
(Not being an arse, genuinely interested.)0 -
The EU is beaurocracy central. They are lethal in arranged timetabled meetings but terrible off the cuff. The tactic has to be making our plays off the cuff.TGOHF said:The EU seems to have been caught completely on the hop by May's offer to EU citizens - they are scrabbling around and failing to get a common line in response - are we sure Barnier is up to the job ?
1-0 to the Uk.0 -
May's offer is almost impossible to reject by the EU - if she wins this the narrative could changeTGOHF said:The EU seems to have been caught completely on the hop by May's offer to EU citizens - they are scrabbling around and failing to get a common line in response - are we sure Barnier is up to the job ?
1-0 to the Uk.0 -
Agree, she's really quite milfy in person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Last time I saw she had the most votes and most seats and a record vote share.Jonathan said:
Maybe right for the party, but absolutely not for the country. She carries no weight. She is damaged goods. The EU can safely ignore her knowing that sometime, maybe quite soon, she will be gone.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM is concerned do not underestimate her. She has made a horlicks of the election but she is ideal for the party right now to deal with Brexit and the fire tragedy and as a party member I do not see anyone either able or willing to challenge her. And no way will I vote for Boris, he is yesterday's candidate
For that reason alone she should be gone already. Even, dare I say it, if that is sub-optimal for the Tory party.
She may or may not resign sometime but for now most seem to just want her to get on with Brexit.
Also on question time last night I was actually quite impressed with Gina Miller (Wow - did I just write that)0 -
I am not a Tory and have no particular interest in the Tory leadership except for the betting opportunities it might bring. However I think people should be aware of underestimating May now much as they serially overestimated her up to about 8 weeks ago.TGOHF said:The EU seems to have been caught completely on the hop by May's offer to EU citizens - they are scrabbling around and failing to get a common line in response - are we sure Barnier is up to the job ?
1-0 to the Uk.0 -
Thanks to May's decision to invoke Article 50, digging our heels in just brings us closer to the cliff edge.CornishJohn said:
This was a predictable reaction to any generous offer. As we saw from Blair and Cameron's negotiations, the EU banks any offer, claims it is not enough and then demands more. The only right way to deal is what Chirac used to do and dig your heels in.CarlottaVance said:0
