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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is the trend in TMay’s YouGov “best PM” ratings that should

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited June 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is the trend in TMay’s YouGov “best PM” ratings that should really worry the Tories

The miniscule lead with YouGov that Corbyn now enjoys as “best PM” is not what should concern her party but the trend which is illustrated in my chart above.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    Primo?
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 905
    edited June 2017
    Secundo?

    "If she had secured the post by going through the Tory members ballot her campaigning skills would have been enhanced and she’d have been better able to cope with the scrutiny of a general election campaign."

    Or more likely her flakeyness would have been exposed and the Tory party would have had to choose between two rubbish candidates.

    If the Tories don't replace May soon they could find that they go into the next election with her still as PM.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    I don't see why they shoud be used against her. She was only articulating the wishes of the majority of her bonkers party. Compared to her competitors Johnson Davis and Leadsom she almost sounded sane.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    The Tory party priority at the moment is to steady the ship and get into the summer break. The difficulty from the national interest is that EU negotiations start in earnest in the autumn, and if we say "hang on, guys, we just need to pause for a leadership election it will look really unserious. So I think that if May survives to the summer, she'll survive through the negotiations, unless those become totally unglued. But there will come a point when people become completely exasperated with a lame duck administration stumbling on.

    Labour's priority is to shift from "first class opposition" to "Government in waiting". That's the reason why we keep talking about being ready to take power, not because we expect it to happen very soon, but to get everyone used to the idea. I expect fairly statesmanlike opposition - e.g. we might well accept the Repeal Bill, which seems a natural consequence to the referendum outcome, and then get stuck into the detail of the 8 other Bills.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320

    Primo?

    inter pares?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited June 2017
    644 days and 4 hours until we escape the EU!
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2017
    Actually the converse is true. The more May is attacked in the media (and on here) the more likely it is she will survive. The Tories don't want and cannot afford a new PM at this time. May stays. Lets wait till the OAPS get their winter fuel allowances in Dec..
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    edited June 2017

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
    He's right.

    It pains me so much, the hard work of the last decade plus has been undone in weeks by Mrs May.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_9obvstPUAhUGYlAKHcYoDUkQuAIIMjAF&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM&usg=AFQjCNEQTkWJzpgiy32WNHmo2EvDd59KJA
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718


    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    It's the way you tell'em......

    Care to dig out Osborne's ratings......?
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320

    Actually the converse is true. The more May is attacked in the media (and on here) the more likely it is she will survive. The Tories don't want and cannot afford a new PM at this time. May stays. Lets wait till the OAPS get their winter fuel allowances in Dec..

    That suits Labour just fine I should think, SR.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
    I don't think you can predict anything with certainty at the moment, as the reversals in fortunes of Jeremy Corbyn, and Arlene Foster show.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    We thought May was competent and it turns out she wasn't, at least at election campaigns. And negotiating agreements with the DUP (Damn, that negotiating thing might prove to be important). And emoting when we expect our leaders too. And sounding human. And in her choice of staff (10 gone at the latest count).

    I think the Tories made a serious mistake in not pushing her out straight away but now we have to see if she can still govern, albeit in a nominal, much more collegiate style than she did in her first year. Now that the negotiations have started we really need to just get on. Its sub optimal but there we are.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487


    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    It's the way you tell'em......

    Care to dig out Osborne's ratings......?
    I believe we might be getting some this weekend.

    I think they'll be higher than May's.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.

    He's moved on and realises his political career is over.

    Though I can see him serving in a national emergency.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Gadfly said:

    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/

    It's undoubtedly true that there's a form of natural selection which limits female politics largely to tough cookies - Shirley Williams is the last case I can think of who didn't adhere to the "I'm as tough as any two blokes" image. I used to think that was excluding swathes of women, but actually most women nowadays are pretty resilient and we have a hard-bitten culture which covers both sexes. Not necessarily a good thing, but a reality.

    Being PM is pretty damned cool for any politician, so I really doubt if May intends to step down if she isn't forced out. Because it's not clear that it will benefit the party to do it, she's being tolerated and I think she'lll struggle on until some decisive disaster - whether in the negotiations or som really horrible by-elections - intervenes.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Actually the converse is true. The more May is attacked in the media (and on here) the more likely it is she will survive. The Tories don't want and cannot afford a new PM at this time. May stays. Lets wait till the OAPS get their winter fuel allowances in Dec..

    That suits Labour just fine I should think, SR.
    and most of the population. The Tories need to keep Corbyn McDonnel and co out .. period.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718

    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.

    He's moved on and realises his political career is over.
    He's certainly writing as though it is.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    Sean_F said:

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
    I don't think you can predict anything with certainty at the moment, as the reversals in fortunes of Jeremy Corbyn, and Arlene Foster show.
    Sean_F said:

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
    I don't think you can predict anything with certainty at the moment, as the reversals in fortunes of Jeremy Corbyn, and Arlene Foster show.
    Hmmm, well we can predict that some here will continue to defend the indefensible but otherwise I have to agree, Sean. I mean Corbyn more popular than May - who'd have thunk it, just a couple of short months ago.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,395

    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.

    Right now, the Conservatives believe removing her would politically destabilise the Government. And they won't do anything that puts Corbyn within even an extra sniff of Downing Street.

    So, she stays.

    Meanwhile, Hammond is clearly positioning himself as the King across the water.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718

    Gadfly said:

    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/

    some really horrible by-elections.
    Talking of which:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878028076097187840
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878025508394369024
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878006376546660353
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,043
    It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.

    The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    Sean_F said:

    The Tories are doomed the longer she remains leader.

    The only advantage I can see her remaining PM for a few more years is for allowing Osborne to become an MP once more and thus her replacement.

    The best comment I have seen by anybody anywhere on the matter was here by I think Ianb2. He said the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That seems to me to describe the situation perfectly.
    I don't think you can predict anything with certainty at the moment, as the reversals in fortunes of Jeremy Corbyn, and Arlene Foster show.
    I feel for Arlene Foster and the DUP. They are instinctively Eurosceptic. But they are also acutely aware that the prosperity of Northern Ireland is dependent on trade with the Republic. A cliff edge Brexit is much worse for Northern Ireland than it is for other parts of the UK. The temptation to avoid blame by avoiding entanglement must be enormous.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,641

    Gadfly said:

    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/

    It's undoubtedly true that there's a form of natural selection which limits female politics largely to tough cookies - Shirley Williams is the last case I can think of who didn't adhere to the "I'm as tough as any two blokes" image. I used to think that was excluding swathes of women, but actually most women nowadays are pretty resilient and we have a hard-bitten culture which covers both sexes. Not necessarily a good thing, but a reality.

    Being PM is pretty damned cool for any politician, so I really doubt if May intends to step down if she isn't forced out. Because it's not clear that it will benefit the party to do it, she's being tolerated and I think she'lll struggle on until some decisive disaster - whether in the negotiations or som really horrible by-elections - intervenes.
    One should also consider that utter imperviousness to criticism is not necessarily a desirable quality in a leader.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718

    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.

    Meanwhile, Hammond is clearly positioning himself as the King across the water.
    How can he be 'across the water' and 'in cabinet'?

    The only 'king across the water' I can see is Osborne - and that's not so much the English Channel as the Atlantic Ocean
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    MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    If May is tough how come she does so many U-turns and unlike Mrs Thatcher or Tony Blair explains what or why she thinks on anything controversial.
    Whoever succeeds her will be walking back into the world of the 1990`s huge anti tory bias.Neither talented salesmen like Hague or Major were able to counter it because they were not offering an attractive enough product.
    The Tories should look for a new leader who is prepared to argue for contrarian causes that might have a sizeable audience.Climate Scepticism, reducing foreign aid and institutional political correctness are obvious ones.They are contrarian causes because the establishment appears to buy into lock,stock and barrel manmade clime change,foreign aid and PC .There is a sizeable section of the public though who do not
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320

    Actually the converse is true. The more May is attacked in the media (and on here) the more likely it is she will survive. The Tories don't want and cannot afford a new PM at this time. May stays. Lets wait till the OAPS get their winter fuel allowances in Dec..

    That suits Labour just fine I should think, SR.
    and most of the population. The Tories need to keep Corbyn McDonnel and co out .. period.
    I refer you again to the inestimable formulation of Ianb2 (of this parish) - the Tories are buying each day in office with two in opposition.

    That suits Labour fine. Corbyn must think every day is Christmas Day.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,641

    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.

    He's moved on and realises his political career is over.
    He's certainly writing as though it is.

    Pretending that May is a decent Prime Minister is necessary for a career in the Conservative party ?
    Not a great message for the Tories.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,395
    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2017
    She's survived a week longer than the "master strategist" predicted.

    No appetite for another election from a majority of MPs - she may be around for a while yet.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,395

    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.

    Meanwhile, Hammond is clearly positioning himself as the King across the water.
    How can he be 'across the water' and 'in cabinet'?

    The only 'king across the water' I can see is Osborne - and that's not so much the English Channel as the Atlantic Ocean
    The gap between No. 10 and the Treasury right now is very real.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,395

    It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.

    The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.

    I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.

    They just chose not to fight on it.
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    ScarfNZScarfNZ Posts: 29

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    But what about the losses elsewhere? May is on her way out!
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,730

    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.

    Meanwhile, Hammond is clearly positioning himself as the King across the water.
    How can he be 'across the water' and 'in cabinet'?

    The only 'king across the water' I can see is Osborne - and that's not so much the English Channel as the Atlantic Ocean
    Across the Rubicon, I think, going the other way.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.

    He's moved on and realises his political career is over.
    He's certainly writing as though it is.

    Pretending that May is a decent Prime Minister is necessary for a career in the Conservative party ?
    Not a great message for the Tories.
    No. He could have played the role of the 'critical friend' - instead he opted for 'gleeful undertaker'
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    They could also lose some of their gains as the voting public feels the nationalist beast is slain and an anti-Con vote materialises in Scotland.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,730
    edited June 2017

    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Eagles, but would Osborne stand if the opportunity (to become an MP) arose?

    May will be around for a little while, but if they have any choice MPs won't want her leading them after her less than spectacular effort in 2017.

    He's moved on and realises his political career is over.
    He's certainly writing as though it is.

    Pretending that May is a decent Prime Minister is necessary for a career in the Conservative party ?
    Not a great message for the Tories.
    No. He could have played the role of the 'critical friend' - instead he opted for 'gleeful undertaker'
    TBF May was very clear she was going to sack Hammond until her election imploded. She can hardly complain about disloyalty now she can't shift him.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    FF43 said:

    Theresa May has been reduced to a placeholder. She'll be gone as soon as the Conservatives can agree on her replacement. Worryingly for all concerned, that might take a while.

    Meanwhile, Hammond is clearly positioning himself as the King across the water.
    How can he be 'across the water' and 'in cabinet'?

    The only 'king across the water' I can see is Osborne - and that's not so much the English Channel as the Atlantic Ocean
    Across the Rubicon, I think, going the other way.
    I'm not sure how many Rubicons the Tories have got left to cross - despatching May will be as nothing compared to the defenestration of Thatcher....
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    Morning sexy people,

    Happy Independence Day! :smiley:
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,395

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    Ah, interesting. Thanks.

    So that'd have been 324 seats then. Two short of an absolute majority, and an effective of 10.

    Enough to pass Conservative budgets, and no need to dance with the DUP.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    Hamilton East is how to do a proper 3 way marginal.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    GIN1138 said:

    Morning sexy people,

    Happy Independence Day! :smiley:

    644 days 3 hours 25 mins left until we're free.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    The Tory King over the water isn't Osborne.

    It's the only Tory to have won a majority in the last 25 years.
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    JenSJenS Posts: 91
    May needs to have a Crown Prince who can help her and be groomed for succession.

    She thinks so too. The question is whether she picked the right person.

    If she did, the tip to back the First Secretary of State as next leader will come good.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    And reasonable chances in Ayrshire North, Edinburgh North, Lithlingow, Paisley and North Renfrew. All 3 way marginals.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    Metatron said:

    If May is tough how come she does so many U-turns and unlike Mrs Thatcher or Tony Blair explains what or why she thinks on anything controversial.
    Whoever succeeds her will be walking back into the world of the 1990`s huge anti tory bias.Neither talented salesmen like Hague or Major were able to counter it because they were not offering an attractive enough product.
    The Tories should look for a new leader who is prepared to argue for contrarian causes that might have a sizeable audience.Climate Scepticism, reducing foreign aid and institutional political correctness are obvious ones.They are contrarian causes because the establishment appears to buy into lock,stock and barrel manmade clime change,foreign aid and PC .There is a sizeable section of the public though who do not

    Isn't that just the 2010 UKIP manifesto?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290

    It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.

    The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.

    I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.

    They just chose not to fight on it.
    They thought Brexit was more important than sticking with their economic strategy.

    Brexit will overhang the Tories for a generation; the modern day Corn Laws or Irish Home Rule.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Morning all, here's hoping you enjoy this sunny Independence Day.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    But it's equally possible that they'd lose St Ives and Richmond Park to the LibDems, and a dozen seats to Labour.

    In which case, it wouldn't look so clever.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited June 2017
    Gadfly said:

    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/

    You make an interesting point. In my profession tough women proliferate so I don't find them unusual though if I had to generalise I'd say they tend to be more ruthless than their male equivalents and therefore usually more feared.

    Being based in the metropolis I don't recognise the double standards or the abuse you describe. Has Harriet Harman been more abused than say Tony Blair? Perhaps you just feel women should have more protection?

    Not being a woman I'm not too aware of the struggles they might have had to get on the first rung of the ladder but having got onto it I don't believe their career paths are more difficult in any way. In fact probably the opposite.

    When I went for my first job as an assistant to a celebrated female photographer I was asked whether I had a problem working for a woman. That was mid 70's. Now the question would be ridiculous.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    It is not impossible for the Lib Dems to win all four of these seats next time round, M. Royale. In fact, since the Tories are currently demonstrating their complete incompetence at running the economy, Lib Dem gains seem the more likely.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,043

    It's quite simple: the Conservatives do not 'deserve' to be in power. They have not done enough to earn the reward of power, and have no idea what to do with the power they've got. They're leaderless, rudderless, and in active mutiny.

    The only upside for them is that Labour was in the same situation just a month ago. They still don't have a leader (in the classical sense), they're rudderless, and although the mutiny has ended, it remains to be seen how long the mutineers will remain silent.

    I think the record of the Conservative administration is very good, particularly with the economy.

    They just chose not to fight on it.
    It could be worse, but that does not equate with 'very good'.

    The rise of Labour under a hard-left leader shows that the Conservatives are not taking massive numbers of the country with them. An election fought on: "Urgh! Look at the man leading the opposition!" is not a positive reason to vote for them.

    If they continue in that manner then they'll get thrashed in the next election. Yes, Labour's campaign was filled with lots of nasty 'Tories are evil baby-eaters', but they also had lots of positive sweeties for people who feel that they've been left behind. Yes, it may be unaffordable. Yes, it may be disastrous for the country in the long term. But at least someone is offering them something positive for them.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT Henry Blofeld is to retire from TMS.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783
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    ScarfNZScarfNZ Posts: 29
    If the Conservatives deliver BREXIT ......... they will be out of power for a generation!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    If I was Qatar I'd be sorely tempted to refer Saudi Arabia to the reply given in Arkell vs Pressdram:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-qatar-diplomatic-feud-latest-al-jazeera-demands-list-uae-egypt-bahrain-a7803981.html
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864
    TGOHF said:

    She's survived a week longer than the "master strategist" predicted.

    No appetite for another election from a majority of MPs - she may be around for a while yet.

    Clearly, she, or perhaps the unlamented minions Timothy and Hill, decided that the only option was to tough it out. Removing a Party leader who wants to go is easy, removing one who doesn't is much harder.

    We may never know if May had a wobble on Friday morning and considered resigning - I suspect hubby had a word as well. There were "reports" and "rumours" she was going to do a Cameron and resign around breakfast time (mine, not yours).

    If she won't go and there's no mechanism to force a challenge, what then ? Is there still an annual election for the Conservative leader among the MPs ? Will we see someone put themselves up as the proverbial "stalking horse" ?

    Maybe, maybe not - the Conservatives know well the old adage if you don't hang together you'll all hang separately but they are also entirely ruthless if a leader looks like a loser (they were with Thatcher in 1990, they tried to be with Major in 1995 and made matters worse).

    How bad would things have to get before there was a move against May ? The obvious sign would be clear evidence the Party would do much better with another leader (Johnson) but the other sign would be the attrition of the grass roots. There are not far off 9000 Conservative Councillors - the Party has enjoyed years of strong local results. It can afford to take a few hits in the next few years - I suspect the 600 or so London Conservatives may be reduced next year.

    It's no coincidence the 1995 challenge to Major followed a set of elections when the Conservatives lost 2000 Councillors in a single night. The local contests in 2019 and 2020 may not be pleasant either and the counties come back round in 2021 when the Conservatives will be defending a high base.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    OT Henry Blofeld is to retire from TMS.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783

    Another fine Cambridge man.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    I assume the population estimates report received some comment yesterday. apart from the obvious statements about increasing populations having an upward pressure on housing costs and a downward pressure on employee earnings this is notable:

    ' Apart from London with a net outflow of 10.8 per 1,000 population (mid-2015), all other regions, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had net inflows, with the highest rate in the South West (5.5 per 1,000 population (mid-2015)).

    Previous years’ internal migration estimates show that this general pattern of a large net outflow from London and a large net inflow to other parts of southern and eastern England has existed for a number of years. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest#moves-between-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales-similar-to-last-year

    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    OT Henry Blofeld is to retire from TMS.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783

    Amongst all of the trivia and remoaning on here today - finally some genuinely bad news.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Posh boy squared....
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290

    I assume the population estimates report received some comment yesterday. apart from the obvious statements about increasing populations having an upward pressure on housing costs and a downward pressure on employee earnings this is notable:

    ' Apart from London with a net outflow of 10.8 per 1,000 population (mid-2015), all other regions, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had net inflows, with the highest rate in the South West (5.5 per 1,000 population (mid-2015)).

    Previous years’ internal migration estimates show that this general pattern of a large net outflow from London and a large net inflow to other parts of southern and eastern England has existed for a number of years. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest#moves-between-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales-similar-to-last-year

    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    Whilst internal migration is strongly negative for London, its population is of course growing overall, due to the higher indigenous birth rate and external immigration. Last year London passed the previous all time population high of 1939.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    OT Henry Blofeld is to retire from TMS.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783

    Another fine Cambridge man.
    Really? Can my day get any worse? Blowers is a spy too?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Essexit said:

    Morning all, here's hoping you enjoy this sunny Independence Day.

    It's overcast with rain forecast.

    The weather is shit, too.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704



    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    White flight.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Posh boy squared....
    Call me Dave the Lord
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    IanB2 said:

    I assume the population estimates report received some comment yesterday. apart from the obvious statements about increasing populations having an upward pressure on housing costs and a downward pressure on employee earnings this is notable:

    ' Apart from London with a net outflow of 10.8 per 1,000 population (mid-2015), all other regions, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had net inflows, with the highest rate in the South West (5.5 per 1,000 population (mid-2015)).

    Previous years’ internal migration estimates show that this general pattern of a large net outflow from London and a large net inflow to other parts of southern and eastern England has existed for a number of years. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest#moves-between-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales-similar-to-last-year

    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    due to the higher indigenous birth rate
    indigenous Londoners or indigenous Britons?
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    And the Tory turnaround is just beginning. May makes a perfectly reasonable offer on citizens rights, EU will start bullying and saying it is unacceptable. UK public will realise just how unreasonable the EU will be - Tories will be 5% up in the polls by the end of July (assuming they get through the QS!)
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    That should be Ayrshire Central (maj 1,267) and Lanark & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    https://twitter.com/RobertAlanWard/status/878137628876431360

    Galloway is tweeting about the inevitability of war.....
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    That should be Ayrshire Central (maj 1,267) and Lanark & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    To be honest Scottish constituency are such a confused mess you could have gotten away with that.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Scott_P said:

    Essexit said:

    Morning all, here's hoping you enjoy this sunny Independence Day.

    It's overcast with rain forecast.

    The weather is shit, too.
    Boiling hot here in the most Remoany voting area.

    A big scandal here this week about holes in the barbed wire border fence which keeps the dagos out.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007

    And the Tory turnaround is just beginning. May makes a perfectly reasonable offer on citizens rights, EU will start bullying and saying it is unacceptable. UK public will realise just how unreasonable the EU will be - Tories will be 5% up in the polls by the end of July (assuming they get through the QS!)

    That's one possibility.

    Another is that it's leaked that the UK has agreed a €100bn exit bill, and Theresa is toppeled by her backbenchers.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290

    And the Tory turnaround is just beginning. May makes a perfectly reasonable offer on citizens rights, EU will start bullying and saying it is unacceptable. UK public will realise just how unreasonable the EU will be - Tories will be 5% up in the polls by the end of July (assuming they get through the QS!)

    It's not called crazy heat for nothing.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101



    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    White flight.
    Don't forget affordable housing, especially for young families.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    https://twitter.com/RobertAlanWard/status/878137628876431360

    Galloway is tweeting about the inevitability of war.....

    I hope we're taking the sensible, pragmatic approach to war and selling more weapons to both sides equally.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    GeoffM said:

    Scott_P said:

    Essexit said:

    Morning all, here's hoping you enjoy this sunny Independence Day.

    It's overcast with rain forecast.

    The weather is shit, too.
    Boiling hot here in the most Remoany voting area.

    A big scandal here this week about holes in the barbed wire border fence which keeps the dagos out.
    You're the only gay in the village?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The root cause of the current situation we are in was those labour MP's that put Corbyn on the ballot to
    widen the choice. If they had not then in all likelyhood the referendum result would have been different
    and May would not be PM and there wouldntbean election until 2019. Which may have resulted in a labour
    win depending on what happened with UKIP.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    Alistair said:

    It's not impossible that in a new election the Tories could make four further gains in Scotland: Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, Argyll & Bute, Perth and North Perthshire and Edinburgh South-West.

    If they'd got them all this time round, they'd have had an effective working majority.

    Plus Ayrshire Central and Lanark (maj 1,267) & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    That should be Ayrshire Central (maj 1,267) and Lanark & Hamilton East.(maj 266).
    To be honest Scottish constituency are such a confused mess you could have gotten away with that.
    How the Inverness constituency was allowed to have four places named amazes me.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    nichomar said:

    The root cause of the current situation we are in was those labour MP's that put Corbyn on the ballot to
    widen the choice. If they had not then in all likelyhood the referendum result would have been different
    and May would not be PM and there wouldntbean election until 2019. Which may have resulted in a labour
    win depending on what happened with UKIP.

    Lol. Andy Burnham would be Labour leader. And probably PM by now. With the Tories under Leadsome or somesuch, reliving the joys of the IDS era.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    I assume the population estimates report received some comment yesterday. apart from the obvious statements about increasing populations having an upward pressure on housing costs and a downward pressure on employee earnings this is notable:

    ' Apart from London with a net outflow of 10.8 per 1,000 population (mid-2015), all other regions, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had net inflows, with the highest rate in the South West (5.5 per 1,000 population (mid-2015)).

    Previous years’ internal migration estimates show that this general pattern of a large net outflow from London and a large net inflow to other parts of southern and eastern England has existed for a number of years. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest#moves-between-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales-similar-to-last-year

    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    Thanks for the link - the ONS have done a fantastic job with that, really interesting.

    So London's population is growing rapidly. But within that there is some serious churn going on too.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Posh boy squared....
    The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    If I was Qatar I'd be sorely tempted to refer Saudi Arabia to the reply given in Arkell vs Pressdram:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-qatar-diplomatic-feud-latest-al-jazeera-demands-list-uae-egypt-bahrain-a7803981.html

    Very interesting. With any other POTUS the US would see the writing on the wall and realise what dealing with Saudi and the Gulf States looks like. Promoting democracy in the region with those countries as allies looks pretty hollow
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Posh boy squared....
    The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
    Good at elections, bad at government, terrible at referenda.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. M, Cretans were summoned to Rome to explain to an annoyed Senate why they were supplying archer mercenaries to both Rome and Rome's enemy in the same war :p
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Posh boy squared....
    The country loves a posh boy. That's why he took the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs.
    And got fewer votes than the Vicar's daughter....
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    Gadfly said:

    "Critics, Labour and Tory alike, enjoy calling May ‘weak’ but they might ponder the message sent, especially to female voters, by using that word about a woman in public life.

    May’s gender is also a reason to think twice before writing her off or predicting she’ll quit. She is fantastically tough, as any woman who has reached her level in politics must be. By tough, I mean resilient, persistent, undeterred by rejection and criticism and abuse. All politicians get those, but it’s still worse for women – and it used to be much, much worse. In more than 20 years dealing with politicians of all sorts, the toughest I’ve ever met remains Harriet Harman, whose dauntless ability to shrug off abuse and rejection and keep powering on is close to awe-inspiring. There are mountain ranges with less resilience than ‘Harriet Harperson’.

    May hasn’t quite had Harman’s brutally gruelling history, but she too came up the hard way – because until recently, there was no other way for women to make the political ascent. She entered the Commons in 1997, the nadir of modern Conservative fortunes. Her parliamentary career began in failure and ignominy. It’s also worth noting that the 1997 election returned just 120 female MPs, and just 13 of them were Tories. Will someone who has climbed from there to the peak, who has crawled over broken glass to reach her goal, really walk away because the job is difficult and you’ve made mistakes and people are saying hard words about you? I have my doubts."

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/jeremy-corbyn-can-rise-depths-cant-theresa-may/

    some really horrible by-elections.
    Talking of which:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878028076097187840
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878025508394369024
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/878006376546660353
    Interesting. Swings to Labour.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited June 2017

    And the Tory turnaround is just beginning. May makes a perfectly reasonable offer on citizens rights, EU will start bullying and saying it is unacceptable. UK public will realise just how unreasonable the EU will be - Tories will be 5% up in the polls by the end of July (assuming they get through the QS!)

    The UK's proposals would lead to a million or more British citizens losing rights that they currently enjoy at a time when British citizens at home are indicating they wish to prioritise the economic benefits of the single market over removing rights for EU citizens.

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougov-british-people-have-turned-against-a-hard-brexit-2017-6

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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    nichomar said:

    The root cause of the current situation we are in was those labour MP's that put Corbyn on the ballot to
    widen the choice. If they had not then in all likelyhood the referendum result would have been different
    and May would not be PM and there wouldntbean election until 2019. Which may have resulted in a labour
    win depending on what happened with UKIP.

    No, the root cause is Dave stupidly offering a referendum on the assumption he'd be in another coalition and the LDs would block it.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    GeoffM said:

    OT Henry Blofeld is to retire from TMS.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783

    Another fine Cambridge man.
    Really? Can my day get any worse? Blowers is a spy too?
    King's College old boy plus he played first class cricket for the light blues.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    Mr. Eagles, but the same question applies: would Cameron stand to be an MP again?

    They both look a bit daft to have buggered off quite so quickly. I appreciate they didn't think it possible May would bugger up an election like she did, but that too points to complacency and want of judgement.

    Dave could be PM from the Lords.
    Has the heat got to you? It's 2017, not 1817.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,718
    More on that on-line bookies probe:

    The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) said it is taking "enforcement action" against a number of online bookies - which it is refusing to identify at this stage - claiming punters are not getting a fair deal and companies are holding on to people's money.

    It comes amid an ongoing investigation into the £4.5bn sector following allegations that "confusing and unclear" terms and conditions - or mistakes - were being cited for cutting winnings.

    http://news.sky.com/story/online-bookies-face-enforcement-action-10924461
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    tlg86 said:

    I assume the population estimates report received some comment yesterday. apart from the obvious statements about increasing populations having an upward pressure on housing costs and a downward pressure on employee earnings this is notable:

    ' Apart from London with a net outflow of 10.8 per 1,000 population (mid-2015), all other regions, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland had net inflows, with the highest rate in the South West (5.5 per 1,000 population (mid-2015)).

    Previous years’ internal migration estimates show that this general pattern of a large net outflow from London and a large net inflow to other parts of southern and eastern England has existed for a number of years. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest#moves-between-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales-similar-to-last-year

    It seems that many more Londoners prefer to move elsewhere in Britain than the other way around - this helps to explain why Conservative electoral results in London have been repeatedly worse than predicted over the last decade.

    Thanks for the link - the ONS have done a fantastic job with that, really interesting.

    So London's population is growing rapidly. But within that there is some serious churn going on too.
    And the Scottish data suggests a significant number of young English are going there to study at university and then coming back afterwards.
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