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Tim Farron 'to quit as leader of the Liberal Democrats' https://t.co/URHrPlV5no pic.twitter.com/SBpcjKehDW
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First like Jo.
So Tim is upset that some liberals aren't tolerant of his conservative Christian views. Interesting.0 -
I would have thought Vince Cable is the heavyweight the LDs need with Brexit coming up, this is a decade too early for Swinson0
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Third
Anyone but Vince.0 -
The real sin of Tim Farron was to make his apology about gay sex look forced rather than genuine0
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Vince Cable is 74. Too oldHYUFD said:I would have thought Vince Cable is the heavyweight the LDs need with Brexit coming up, this is a decade too early for Swinson
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How many Orange Bookists are still in Parliament?0
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Is he staying as an MP?0
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Bookies cutting a few contenders, but Swinson steaming in towards evens well in the lead.0
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Is Mister Fishfinger an Orange Booker? He's certainly very orange....OchEye said:How many Orange Bookists are still in Parliament?
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Norman Lamb v Jo Swinson would be a good contest for the Lib Dems0
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What about distinguished editors of PB and venerable old Jacobites ?!?MikeSmithson said:
Vince Cable is 74. Too oldHYUFD said:I would have thought Vince Cable is the heavyweight the LDs need with Brexit coming up, this is a decade too early for Swinson
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His statement does nothing to suggest otherwise. So...probably.nunu said:Is he staying as an MP?
EDIT: See statement.
https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/8750451657774735370 -
Does the reason for Tim's resignation mean he will not fight his seat again? Or does God not get in the way of him doing weekly surgeries?0
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Full statement (Part 1):
This last two years have seen the Liberal Democrats recover since the devastation of the 2015 election.
That recovery was never inevitable but we have seen the doubling of our party membership, growth in council elections, our first parliamentary by-election win for more than a decade, and most recently our growth at the 2017 general election.
Most importantly the Liberal Democrats have established ourselves with a significant and distinctive role - passionate about Europe, free trade, strong well-funded public services underpinned by a growing market economy.
No one else occupies that space. Against all the odds, the Liberal Democrats matter again.
We can be proud of the progress we have made together, although there is much more we need to do.
From the very first day of my leadership, I have faced questions about my Christian faith. I've tried to answer with grace and patience. Sometimes my answers could have been wiser.
At the start of this election, I found myself under scrutiny again - asked about matters to do with my faith. I felt guilty that this focus was distracting attention from our campaign, obscuring our message.
Journalists have every right to ask what they see fit. The consequences of the focus on my faith is that I have found myself torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader.
A better, wiser person than me may have been able to deal with this more successfully, to have remained faithful to Christ while leading a political party in the current environment.
To be a political leader - especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 - and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible's teaching, has felt impossible for me.
I'm a liberal to my finger tips, and that liberalism means that I am passionate about defending the rights and liberties of people who believe different things to me.
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@jimwaterson: Turns out the promise of eternal salvation is more tempting than leading the Liberal Democrats for a few more years, I guess.0
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There are Christians in politics who take the view that they should impose the tenets of faith on society, but I have not taken that approach because I disagree with it - it's not liberal and it is counterproductive when it comes to advancing the gospel.
Even so, I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in.
In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.
That's why I have chosen to step down as leader of the Liberal Democrats.
I intend to serve until the parliamentary recess begins next month, at which point there will be a leadership election according to the party’s rules.
This is a historic time in British politics. What happens in the next months and years will shape our country for generations.
My successor will inherit a party that is needed now more than ever before. Our future as an open, tolerant and united country is at stake.
The cause of British liberalism has never been needed more. People who will fight for a Britain that is confident, generous and compassionate are needed more than ever before.
That is the challenge our party and my successor faces and the opportunity I am certain that they will rise to.
I want to say one more thing: I joined our party when I was 16, it is in my blood, I love our history, our people, I thoroughly love my party.
Imagine how proud I am to lead this party. And then imagine what would lead me to voluntarily relinquish that honour.
In the words of Isaac Watts it would have to be something 'so amazing, so divine, (it) demands my heart, my life, my all'.
Thank you,
Tim0 -
Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....0
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Conservative GAIN Westmorland & Lonsdale.
Surely Norman Lamb is nailed on as next leader?0 -
Vince Cable did what Thatcher didn't have the balls to do, privatise Royal Mail.MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
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I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.0
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Jo Swinson now odds on with numerous bookies and Betfair.0
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At an utterly shite price.TheScreamingEagles said:
Vince Cable did what Thatcher didn't have the balls to do, privatise Royal Mail.MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
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Jo Swinson is seen as some kind of messiah by lots of LD members, and Norman Lamb - though respected - has coalition ties far more.waitingfortonight said:Conservative GAIN Westmorland & Lonsdale.
Surely Norman Lamb is nailed on as next leader?
Swinson was talked about as next leader even when our polling position was so bad she wasn't favourite to win her seat.0 -
Sounds like some Tory MPs are channelling me
There is growing anger among Tory MPs that May has misplayed her hand in these negotiations. By announcing that the Conservatives would govern in conjunction with the DUP, she made it so that any failure to do so would look like weakness. MPs believe that entering into a formal agreement with the DUP is not in the party’s interest as (a) given the DUP’s record on LGBT rights, it risks toxifying the Tory brand by association, and (b) it means the power is with the DUP.
They reckon May ought to have called their bluff. After all, the alternative for the unionists to voting with the Conservatives is a Corbyn-led government and given the low regard Foster’s party hold the Labour leader in, they’re unlikely to do that anytime soon.0 -
Agreed.nunu said:I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.
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Do you consider Conservative cabinet ministers "Has beens-who-never-really-were."MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
Foolish comment MM. Unworthy of you.0 -
I didn't sign up for the Royal Mail share offer because I believed the Government would sell it at a fair market price, thus it should end up about level on the first day of trading...MarqueeMark said:
At an utterly shite price.TheScreamingEagles said:
Vince Cable did what Thatcher didn't have the balls to do, privatise Royal Mail.MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
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PBers will be shocked by this behaviour by Stewart Jackson
https://twitter.com/taralepore/status/8750065064371609600 -
Note however that Shadsy agrees with you. He had Lamb as favourite until 10 minutes ago, and even now has the two of them very close.Quincel said:
Jo Swinson is seen as some kind of messiah by lots of LD members, and Norman Lamb - though respected - has coalition ties far more.waitingfortonight said:Conservative GAIN Westmorland & Lonsdale.
Surely Norman Lamb is nailed on as next leader?
Swinson was talked about as next leader even when our polling position was so bad she wasn't favourite to win her seat.0 -
Sure it would get them past the QS but leave them in a potential pickle thereafter.TheScreamingEagles said:Sounds like some Tory MPs are channelling me
There is growing anger among Tory MPs that May has misplayed her hand in these negotiations. By announcing that the Conservatives would govern in conjunction with the DUP, she made it so that any failure to do so would look like weakness. MPs believe that entering into a formal agreement with the DUP is not in the party’s interest as (a) given the DUP’s record on LGBT rights, it risks toxifying the Tory brand by association, and (b) it means the power is with the DUP.
They reckon May ought to have called their bluff. After all, the alternative for the unionists to voting with the Conservatives is a Corbyn-led government and given the low regard Foster’s party hold the Labour leader in, they’re unlikely to do that anytime soon.0 -
One thing that shines through this statement is that Tim Farron is incredibly devout.0
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One man survived the fire, being rescued from the 10th floor, twelve hours after it took hold:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/miracle-rescue-desperate-elderly-man-saved-grenfell-tower-12/
To some extent, then, fire separation worked within the building, as opposed to the exterior.
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Tims heart was always in westmorland, he knew that there were several good candidates to replce him, he has a battle to hold his seat and is private views would always distract from the message. I dont blame him fo going hes done his job motivating the membership. Lets just hope cable has got the sense not to stand and leave it open for Swinson.0
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Are the DUP outplaying May in the negotiations ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm SHOCKED
SHOCKED I tell you.0 -
I think that's a pretty dignified and decent statement from Tim Farron.0
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Has be got a little black book or something?TheScreamingEagles said:PBers will be shocked by this behaviour by Stewart Jackson
https://twitter.com/taralepore/status/8750065064371609600 -
Farron was a nice guy, but the lib dems should have made a lot more headway at the last election, given the circumstances.
The christian faith thing was a bit of a sideshow.0 -
Are people forgetting Jo has a very young baby?0
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They were not remotely in the same class as Clegg, Lamb or Webb.JackW said:
Do you consider Conservative cabinet ministers "Has beens-who-never-really-were."MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
Foolish comment MM. Unworthy of you.
And recent Tory Cabinets have not been without duds.0 -
She needs to goPulpstar said:
Are the DUP outplaying May in the negotiations ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm SHOCKED
SHOCKED I tell you.0 -
Hardly an inside tip, but I'd favour Swinson to win itwaitingfortonight said:Conservative GAIN Westmorland & Lonsdale.
Surely Norman Lamb is nailed on as next leader?0 -
Maybe, but the other view is that in the tightest two-party squeeze since 1970 (in terms of two-party vote share) the LDs held their ground and gained seats - much better than UKIP or the Greens.nielh said:Farron was a nice guy, but the lib dems should have made a lot more headway at the last election, given the circumstances.
The christian faith thing was a bit of a sideshow.0 -
Why do I get the feeling this agreement is getting announced on July 12th?Pulpstar said:
Are the DUP outplaying May in the negotiations ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm SHOCKED
SHOCKED I tell you.0 -
I think it's a miracle that so many people escaped. I can't imagine the terror that they went through.Nigelb said:One man survived the fire, being rescued from the 10th floor, twelve hours after it took hold:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/miracle-rescue-desperate-elderly-man-saved-grenfell-tower-12/
To some extent, then, fire separation worked within the building, as opposed to the exterior.0 -
No. If she runs, she wins though. I'm happy enough to be on at 5-2 for £40, its not a complete shoo in though. I'd hope her husband can help with the baby !Monksfield said:Are people forgetting Jo has a very young baby?
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It just dawned on me, every Lib Dem who served in the coalition cabinet either lost their seat or ended up in prison at some point, except Alistair Carmichael0
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Spotlight (local SW news) suggesting if the PM gives goodies to Northern Ireland at the expense of sorting out the SW rail links, there could be 30 disgruntled SW MPs who start agitating for a leadership challenge......0
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Big divergence in the markets emerging. LadbrokesCoral holding Swinson at 2.5, almost everyone else nearer 1.5.0
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Why do I get the feeling there are alot of offers for babysitting that will be forthcoming in East Dunbartonshire
? 0 -
I made that point on Sunday.MarqueeMark said:Spotlight (local SW news) suggesting if the PM gives goodies to Northern Ireland at the expense of sorting out the SW rail links, there could be 30 disgruntled SW MPs who start agitating for a leadership challenge......
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You've got me baffled.TheScreamingEagles said:It just dawned on me, every Lib Dem who served in the coalition cabinet either lost their seat or ended up in prison at some point, except Alistair Carmichael
Which LibDem ended up in prison but didn't lose their seat ?
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Great news on Farron, a proper Liberal leader would give the electorate a little more choice. The current main offer of big business v unions with a pair of pretty dismal leaders needs some decent challenge, a wet lettuce, statist religious crank was pretty tragic for the Liberals.0
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There's no way Jo Swinson can be Lib Dem leader, she's younger than me.
#FeelsOld0 -
Shadow Cabinet expected to be announced this evening
Paul Waugh reports that all Whips have been confirmed in their positions.
So that would be Alan Campbell, Mark Tami, Jessica Morden, Judith Cummins, Vicky Foxcroft, Chris Elmore, Thangam Debbonaire, Nick Smith, Jeff Smith, Karl Turner, Nik Dakin
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Norman Lamb would struggle to get heard/noticed you'd imagine. At least with Cable, he has a bit of clout and some people would recognise him.0
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Mercer will hold the whipTheScreamingEagles said:
I made that point on Sunday.MarqueeMark said:Spotlight (local SW news) suggesting if the PM gives goodies to Northern Ireland at the expense of sorting out the SW rail links, there could be 30 disgruntled SW MPs who start agitating for a leadership challenge......
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Very dignified and heartfelt statement by Tim Farron. I always thought him too lightweight to be a party leader but that was a brave statement. He has my respect for making it rather than expressing some meaningless guff.0
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The question about whether gay sex is a sin is a hot topic in the Anglican Church at the moment. Last week the Scottish Episcopal Church voted to change church canons to permit same sex marriage. Other provinces of the Anglican Church are strongly against same sex marriage.
Beliefs are strong in both sides of the argument.0 -
Chris Huhne, he resigned as an MP, rather than lost his seat in an election.another_richard said:
You've got me baffled.TheScreamingEagles said:It just dawned on me, every Lib Dem who served in the coalition cabinet either lost their seat or ended up in prison at some point, except Alistair Carmichael
Which LibDem ended up in prison but didn't lose their seat ?0 -
In what regard ?Casino_Royale said:
Agreed.nunu said:I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.
He himself admits in his statement that he found it difficult reconciling his faith with leading an avowedly liberal party.
To expect the media (or his political opponents) to studiously ignore this potential issue during the election campaign is surely to hold them to a standard far higher than you would expect for (say) Corbyn, May or Abbott ?
Such treatment is part and parcel of participating in the democratic process. And always has been.0 -
And too conceited.MikeSmithson said:
Vince Cable is 74. Too oldHYUFD said:I would have thought Vince Cable is the heavyweight the LDs need with Brexit coming up, this is a decade too early for Swinson
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I wonder if her confidence might simply be shot..TheScreamingEagles said:Sounds like some Tory MPs are channelling me
There is growing anger among Tory MPs that May has misplayed her hand in these negotiations. By announcing that the Conservatives would govern in conjunction with the DUP, she made it so that any failure to do so would look like weakness. MPs believe that entering into a formal agreement with the DUP is not in the party’s interest as (a) given the DUP’s record on LGBT rights, it risks toxifying the Tory brand by association, and (b) it means the power is with the DUP.
They reckon May ought to have called their bluff. After all, the alternative for the unionists to voting with the Conservatives is a Corbyn-led government and given the low regard Foster’s party hold the Labour leader in, they’re unlikely to do that anytime soon.0 -
Reasonable statement, if his faith comes into conflict with his job as leader then something had to change so he has stuck with his faith which is fair enough. Didn't know he was/is so devout, he's a fellow Rover and seems like a decent bloke that's all I knew.
I assume he will stay on as an MP?0 -
There's nothing in Farron's resignation statement that shouldn't have stopped him from standing in the first place.Nigelb said:
In what regard ?Casino_Royale said:
Agreed.nunu said:I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.
He himself admits in his statement that he found it difficult reconciling his faith with leading an avowedly liberal party.
To expect the media (or his political opponents) to studiously ignore this potential issue during the election campaign is surely to hold them to a standard far higher than you would expect for (say) Corbyn, May or Abbott ?
Such treatment is part and parcel of participating in the democratic process. And always has been.0 -
Great leader who was about as under-estimated as Corbyn, even after the election where he saved the liberal political tradition in the UK.0
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I thought you would say Huhne.TheScreamingEagles said:
Chris Huhne, he resigned as an MP, rather than lost his seat in an election.another_richard said:
You've got me baffled.TheScreamingEagles said:It just dawned on me, every Lib Dem who served in the coalition cabinet either lost their seat or ended up in prison at some point, except Alistair Carmichael
Which LibDem ended up in prison but didn't lose their seat ?
But I'd count resigning in disgrace having been sent to the wrong sort of other place counts as losing their seat.
And Eastleigh went Con in 2015 as well.
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He goes on to say:Quincel said:
His statement does nothing to suggest otherwise. So...probably.nunu said:Is he staying as an MP?
EDIT: See statement.
https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/875045165777473537
Imagine how proud I am to lead this party. And then imagine what would lead me to voluntarily relinquish that honour.
In the words of Isaac Watts it would have to be something 'so amazing, so divine, (it) demands my heart, my life, my all'.
What was it? I think it was God.0 -
My own theory is that she's surrounded by enemies/people she doesn't know, and she doesn't know what to do, or whom to turn to.Casino_Royale said:
I wonder if her confidence might simply be shot..TheScreamingEagles said:Sounds like some Tory MPs are channelling me
There is growing anger among Tory MPs that May has misplayed her hand in these negotiations. By announcing that the Conservatives would govern in conjunction with the DUP, she made it so that any failure to do so would look like weakness. MPs believe that entering into a formal agreement with the DUP is not in the party’s interest as (a) given the DUP’s record on LGBT rights, it risks toxifying the Tory brand by association, and (b) it means the power is with the DUP.
They reckon May ought to have called their bluff. After all, the alternative for the unionists to voting with the Conservatives is a Corbyn-led government and given the low regard Foster’s party hold the Labour leader in, they’re unlikely to do that anytime soon.
Her Chiefs of Staff are gone.
Her Chancellor is someone she wanted to sack, but is now making demands of her.
She wanted to demote Boris to the Party Chairmanship, is now keeping her in power.
All self inflicted wounds, but there we are.0 -
Bloody hell, this quick?
Meanwhile, it's interesting to know that Private Eye lurk on PB.0 -
Ok, BF now saying I lost the UK - Party Leaders / Next Leader To Leave market. Even though I had Farron.
I'm pretty sure that a) 10 mins ago the market said Farron was the winner, just after suspension and b) the list was of main party - not UKIP.
Anyone else?0 -
You need both charm and guile to be good at negotiating. And know when to apply one, and then the other, and be on top of your brief, and flexible but also firm.
Do we have a Tory like that?
(The above isn't a code for a Remain BINO sell out either)0 -
Why are you sneering at God, Mr Mark? Are you a heathen or an atheist?MarqueeMark said:Does the reason for Tim's resignation mean he will not fight his seat again? Or does God not get in the way of him doing weekly surgeries?
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Corbyn might be shuffling the deck...again.
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/8750521385478266880 -
Single transferrable vote
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Hubby will copePulpstar said:Why do I get the feeling there are alot of offers for babysitting that will be forthcoming in East Dunbartonshire
?0 -
"I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful."
I wonder if a Muslim leader would have been asked the same questions? I suspect not.0 -
That's more or less how I feel about it.MarqueeMark said:
There's nothing in Farron's resignation statement that shouldn't have stopped him from standing in the first place.Nigelb said:
In what regard ?Casino_Royale said:
Agreed.nunu said:I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.
He himself admits in his statement that he found it difficult reconciling his faith with leading an avowedly liberal party.
To expect the media (or his political opponents) to studiously ignore this potential issue during the election campaign is surely to hold them to a standard far higher than you would expect for (say) Corbyn, May or Abbott ?
Such treatment is part and parcel of participating in the democratic process. And always has been.
I respect his beliefs, and while I might not share them I wouldn't dream of suggesting that he ought not to hold them - but if so strongly held, then their incompatibility with leading a secular liberal party was always going to be there.
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Cant understand why Farron isnt defecting to the DUP0
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I put a lump on Swinson with Ladbrokes at 6/4 just before the price shortened.Quincel said:
Note however that Shadsy agrees with you. He had Lamb as favourite until 10 minutes ago, and even now has the two of them very close.Quincel said:
Jo Swinson is seen as some kind of messiah by lots of LD members, and Norman Lamb - though respected - has coalition ties far more.waitingfortonight said:Conservative GAIN Westmorland & Lonsdale.
Surely Norman Lamb is nailed on as next leader?
Swinson was talked about as next leader even when our polling position was so bad she wasn't favourite to win her seat.0 -
Who will you be voting for in the forthcoming Tory leadership election ?TheScreamingEagles said:
My own theory is that she's surrounded by enemies/people she doesn't know, and she doesn't know what to do, or whom to turn to.Casino_Royale said:
I wonder if her confidence might simply be shot..TheScreamingEagles said:Sounds like some Tory MPs are channelling me
There is growing anger among Tory MPs that May has misplayed her hand in these negotiations. By announcing that the Conservatives would govern in conjunction with the DUP, she made it so that any failure to do so would look like weakness. MPs believe that entering into a formal agreement with the DUP is not in the party’s interest as (a) given the DUP’s record on LGBT rights, it risks toxifying the Tory brand by association, and (b) it means the power is with the DUP.
They reckon May ought to have called their bluff. After all, the alternative for the unionists to voting with the Conservatives is a Corbyn-led government and given the low regard Foster’s party hold the Labour leader in, they’re unlikely to do that anytime soon.
Her Chiefs of Staff are gone.
Her Chancellor is someone she wanted to sack, but is now making demands of her.
She wanted to demote Boris to the Party Chairmanship, is now keeping her in power.
All self inflicted wounds, but there we are.0 -
Surely Dawn Butler should be Shadow Minister for Identity Politics - would be a more honest job titledr_spyn said:Corbyn might be shuffling the deck...again.
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/8750521385478266880 -
Ian Lavery is new Labour party chairman
Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and Shadow Minister for the Constitutional Convention: Andrew Gwynne. He replaces Teresa Pearce who already said some months ago she would going to step down from the role
Shadow Secretary for Scotland: Lesley Laird
Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland: Owen Smith
Shadow minister for Diverse communities: Dawn Butler0 -
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A Muslim leader *of an avowedly liberal party*, if they held such opinions on abortion and gay marriage ? Then absolutely, they would.CD13 said:"I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful."
I wonder if a Muslim leader would have been asked the same questions? I suspect not.0 -
I have no idea.Pulpstar said:Who will you be voting for in the forthcoming Tory leadership election ?
Anyone but Boris.
But I can't vote for David Davis, or what I call the headbanging Tombstone group/Hard Brexit gives them the wood.
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Lol Corbyn definitely has a sense of humour.AndreaParma_82 said:
Shadow Secretary for Northern Ireland: Owen Smith
"And for you Owen"
"Northern Ireland"0 -
I reckon Davey at 11/1 is value. Former cabinet member, experienced, high profile, decent seat majority. Swinson may not want the job as a young mother. Her odds seem prohibitive, unless someone knows something already.0
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I disagree.MarqueeMark said:
They were not remotely in the same class as Clegg, Lamb or Webb.JackW said:
Do you consider Conservative cabinet ministers "Has beens-who-never-really-were."MarqueeMark said:Worst leader would be a fight between Cable and Davey. Both Has-beens-who-never-really-were....
Foolish comment MM. Unworthy of you.
And recent Tory Cabinets have not been without duds.
All cabinet ministers get marks for staying the course against the odds. Cable more so as he was essential for keeping his wing of the LibDems on board. Barely a week passed without ill informed comment on Vince leaving. In fact he was totally committed to the Coalition - ensuring "strong and stable government". Remember that?
Many moons ago Mrs T thought privatizing the Post Office utterly impossible. If you'd have told her a LibDem would have championed it into fruition she'd have had you locked up for your own safety.
Cable, Davey and all the LibDem ministers have plenty of credit in the bank in my view. I have little doubt they knew that the junior partner was in for a shellacking at the 2015 election. In 2010 they put the country first. The nation was not grateful five years later. Politics is a brutal business, twas ever thus.
"Has beens who never were" you say - Wildly off the mark old chap.0 -
If it's a one-off deal, you can be as hard as nails.Casino_Royale said:You need both charm and guile to be good at negotiating. And know when to apply one, and then the other, and be on top of your brief, and flexible but also firm.
Do we have a Tory like that?
(The above isn't a code for a Remain BINO sell out either)
If you need to work in partnership, you don't want a deal that's too good, because you don't want a resentful partner. The DUP need to remember that.0 -
Both. But I'm not sneering at God. I'm sneering at somebody who couldn't see that the clash between his faith and the given liberal attitudes of the day wouldn't survive first contact with the media.PClipp said:
Why are you sneering at God, Mr Mark? Are you a heathen or an atheist?MarqueeMark said:Does the reason for Tim's resignation mean he will not fight his seat again? Or does God not get in the way of him doing weekly surgeries?
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Everyone's out of step bar me but I do not think Farron says his Christianity itself was the issue but that journalists would not let it go, so whatever message he intended was hijacked and turned into yet another press conference about his faith.Nigelb said:
In what regard ?Casino_Royale said:
Agreed.nunu said:I think the way Tim has been treated because of his faith has been disgraceful.
He himself admits in his statement that he found it difficult reconciling his faith with leading an avowedly liberal party.
To expect the media (or his political opponents) to studiously ignore this potential issue during the election campaign is surely to hold them to a standard far higher than you would expect for (say) Corbyn, May or Abbott ?
Such treatment is part and parcel of participating in the democratic process. And always has been.0 -
Pretty well all the current Tory ministers are duds, Mr Mark. Finally we agree on something!MarqueeMark said:
They were not remotely in the same class as Clegg, Lamb or Webb. And recent Tory Cabinets have not been without duds.JackW said:Do you consider Conservative cabinet ministers "Has beens-who-never-really-were." Foolish comment MM. Unworthy of you.
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You should take comfort in the fact that she's almost certainly owns a pair of red shoes.TheScreamingEagles said:There's no way Jo Swinson can be Lib Dem leader, she's younger than me.
#FeelsOld0
