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  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    freetochoose said:

    What a dismal choice we face, I decided when the election was called I wouldn't be voting, nothing has changed my mind. No party has given me a single positive reason to support them.

    I was prepared to give May a chance because she wasn't Cameron but she's every bit as vacuous. I have absolutely no idea what she believes in.

    I think the PM believes in :

    Enough is Enough Of Strong and Stable ....

    This inspiring clarion call is also being carefully adjusted for target audiences :

    Jewish Voters - Enough Already
    Christian Voters - Away in a Stable
    Robbie Williams Fans - Strong

    (Pop Reference from JackW .... lock me up now !!!!!!!!)

  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    edited June 2017
    TravelJunkie said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Embarassing interview from the culture secretary live on itv right now.

    Culture secretary like a rabbit in headlights. cant answer basic questions.

    1) Why did theresa may cut 20,000 police officers?
    2) Why did theresa may tell the police federation on 20th may 2015 that they were scaremongering the public saying that people would be unsafe to terrorism?
    3) Why do you allow saudi arabia to fund mosques in this country?

    traincrash interview

    1 is easy to answer - because crime has been falling for years.
    she said the government hasn't cut number of police officers. blatant lie.

    3 terrorist attacks in 3 weeks and the government is not proposing an increase in officers. answer a straight question.

    Given the 2005 attacks happened when police numbers were higher I don't think it is as simple as hiring more police. Money is needed for the intelligence services.

    Also, three in three weeks is wrong, unless I missed one.
  • Gallowgate
    Gallowgate Posts: 20,709
    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Embarassing interview from the culture secretary live on itv right now.

    Culture secretary like a rabbit in headlights. cant answer basic questions.

    1) Why did theresa may cut 20,000 police officers?
    2) Why did theresa may tell the police federation on 20th may 2015 that they were scaremongering the public saying that people would be unsafe to terrorism?
    3) Why do you allow saudi arabia to fund mosques in this country?

    traincrash interview

    1 is easy to answer - because crime has been falling for years.
    Is it not more that they replaced uniform officers with much cheaper civilian staff for a wide range of functions? And we also increased the number of cheaper PCSOs. There is a certain theme here.
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2017
    JackW said:

    freetochoose said:

    What a dismal choice we face, I decided when the election was called I wouldn't be voting, nothing has changed my mind. No party has given me a single positive reason to support them.

    I was prepared to give May a chance because she wasn't Cameron but she's every bit as vacuous. I have absolutely no idea what she believes in.

    I think the PM believes in :

    Enough is Enough Of Strong and Stable ....

    This inspiring clarion call is also being carefully adjusted for target audiences :

    Jewish Voters - Enough Already
    Christian Voters - Away in a Stable
    Robbie Williams Fans - Strong

    (Pop Reference from JackW .... lock me up now !!!!!!!!)

    There is the positive reason to vote for anyone but Corbyn.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    Yeah. What is lacking is resources for MI5.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    It's all kicking off:

    https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/871614195502112769
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    I can't even remember who is the culture secretary. It is embarrassing that I need to google it (and the shadow culture secretary, while I'm there).
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    I don't think Steve Hilton is going to be on Theresa May's Christmas card list anymore, judging by his tweets this morning.
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    RobD said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    Yeah. What is lacking is resources for MI5.
    And yet funding for the Security services has increased significantly. They are foiling plots all the time. Some have slipped through.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    CarlottaVance said:

    It's all kicking off:

    https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/871614195502112769

    Is that Qatar which is also hosting the World Cup and has invested heavily in motor racing and horseracing? Is this a genuine concern or a smokescreen put up by the Saudis?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.

    Again, that isn't where the resources are needed to deal with this threat. Even if numbers were 20k higher, it is very unlikely they would have dealt with the situation any faster.
  • Gallowgate
    Gallowgate Posts: 20,709
    TravelJunkie said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.

    If its more cost effective to use the military in times of crisis, why is that a bad thing?
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2017
    RobD said:

    First. Thanks, Alastair!

    Just read that analysis you sent me. Labour's increase is bigger then the tories in east anglia, south east, south west and London but they get hardly any seats for thisin fact they get 7 seats in the 4 regions. 7! LOL. And this is even on UNS.

    I will laugh so bad if they actually get a swing towards them but the gap between them and the Conservatives in terms of seats actuallly gets bigger because of Gains in Scotland or gains off the libdems or whatever. LOL
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual

    Is that surprising, she's the minister for culture, media, and sport.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Gallowgate said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.

    If its more cost effective to use the military in times of crisis, why is that a bad thing?
    because we've had 3 terrorsit attacks under mays watch and there arent enough police offices and every single terrorist was known to the police.
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    It's all kicking off:

    https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/871614195502112769

    Is that Qatar which is also hosting the World Cup and has invested heavily in motor racing and horseracing? Is this a genuine concern or a smokescreen put up by the Saudis?
    Qatar is the World Cup. Bahrain is motor-racing. Horse racing is UAE.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    Gallowgate said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.

    If its more cost effective to use the military in times of crisis, why is that a bad thing?
    because we've had 3 terrorsit attacks under mays watch and there arent enough police offices and every single terrorist was known to the police.
    The police don't monitor them. That's MI5's job.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    because if theresa may is re-elected, you will give the police a 1% pay rise over the next five years but a big fat tax cut to people that don't even live in this country.
  • Gallowgate
    Gallowgate Posts: 20,709
    TravelJunkie said:

    Gallowgate said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32806520

    theresa may in 2015 telling the police federation to stop scaremongering about police cuts and the police warned the military would be needed in time of crisis.

    theresa may lecturing police officers in link above.

    If its more cost effective to use the military in times of crisis, why is that a bad thing?
    because we've had 3 terrorsit attacks under mays watch and there arent enough police offices and every single terrorist was known to the police.
    There's no indication that more police officers would have prevented anything. More staff in the security services, maybe?

    Hard to say. Either way the security services have had lots more money.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    because if theresa may is re-elected, you will give the police a 1% pay rise over the next five years but a big fat tax cut to people that don't even live in this country.
    If they don't live in this country, what are they doing paying taxes?
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    alex. said:

    RobD said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    Yeah. What is lacking is resources for MI5.
    And yet funding for the Security services has increased significantly. They are foiling plots all the time. Some have slipped through.
    Slipped through is putting it mildly if some of the claims of warnings and foreknowledge turn out to be true.

  • Ishmael_Z
    Ishmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    Because of claims made by former Met officer about cuts to police numbers yesterday

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-police-cuts-slammed-by-jim-gamble-former-northern-ireland-counter-terror-chief_uk_5934603ee4b02478cb9cb0dd
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    No, I think we need more money in MI5. The police response was exemplary.
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The Westminster Bridge attack involved somebody attacking the police.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Alex, could be wrong but I think Qatar does have *some* interest in F1, although Bahrain/Abu Dhabi have more (Bahrain owns most of McLaren, I think). Qatar wanted a race but one of the other two ME countries has a veto and won't let them.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. L, there are reportedly 23,000 people that are having an eye kept on them. That's not a number that can be kept under proper surveillance, unless we want a million policemen.
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    Police cuts fit the Labour narrative on this - their Shadow Chancellor wanting MI5 abolished doesn't....
  • ThreeQuidder
    ThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual

    Is that surprising, she's the minister for culture, media, and sport.
    Piers Morgan wasted 22 questions?
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Alex, could be wrong but I think Qatar does have *some* interest in F1, although Bahrain/Abu Dhabi have more (Bahrain owns most of McLaren, I think). Qatar wanted a race but one of the other two ME countries has a veto and won't let them.

    Well they have an interest in everything. They were Barcelona's shirt sponsors until recently. They are noted for buying athletes from abroad to win them medals in Olympics/World Championships.
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited June 2017
    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    Arming of police is a different question, and is arguably not really related to money at all.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Morning all. Another great betting thread from @AlastairMeeks, thanks as always.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Scrapheap, also, spending like a drunk on payday suits Corbyn's style. People mentioning he bragged about voting against anti-terror legislation, refusing to support taking out jihadis with drones and wanting armed forces cuts to be greater do not.
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    Election discussion from a slightly different angle;

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/6f95ln/jeremy_corbyn_accuses_theresa_may_of_ignoring/
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    The rural bit is particularly worrying (although the chance of an attack must be vanishingly small outside the big cities).

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36308970

    I couldn't find out what happened to this £143 investment ,if it had been implemented or not.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    TravelJunkie said:

    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual

    Posters totally obsessed with a single interview....
  • freetochoose
    freetochoose Posts: 1,107
    What does the culture secretary actually do?
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited June 2017
    As mentioned yesterday, Qatar is losing friends in the Middle East over its funding of extremists. This morning it appears that it's neighbours in the Gulf have moved things up a notch.

    http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/uae-cuts-diplomatic-ties-with-qatar-accuses-it-of-destabilising-region

    The UAE cut ties with Qatar on Monday, state news agency Wam reported, accusing its Gulf Arab neighbour of supporting extremism and undermining regional stability.

    The Emirates cut ties and gave diplomats 48 hours to leave the country, citing their "support, funding and embrace of terrorist, extremist and sectarian organisations", Wam said.

    Bahrain, Egypt, Saudi Arabia also announced they would withdraw their diplomatic staff from Qatar.

    The statement on Wam said that Qatar has failed to comply with a 2014 agreement that resolved a previous months-long dispute between GCC states over Qatar’s support of the Muslim Brotherhood.
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    freetochoose said:

    What does the culture secretary actually do?

    Oversees the police and security services, apparently.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    edited June 2017
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    The rural bit is particularly worrying (although the chance of an attack must be vanishingly small outside the big cities).

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36308970

    I couldn't find out what happened to this £143 investment ,if it had been implemented or not.
    I think you're missing a fairly significant 'm' there...

    Edit - and much important infrastructure - power stations, water works, refineries - are in rural not urban areas. So although I agree with your main point I think there is a real chance of an attack in a rural area.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The police knocked down the terrorists on Saturday in eight minutes. What more would you have wanted them to do?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    The rural bit is particularly worrying (although the chance of an attack must be vanishingly small outside the big cities).

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36308970

    I couldn't find out what happened to this £143 investment ,if it had been implemented or not.
    I think you're missing a fairly significant 'm' there...
    Oops, an Abbott moment.
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    JackW said:

    not_on_fire said:

    We have a choice between Strong and Stable FPTP or a coalition of chaos of AV, STV and PR^2

    No To A Second AV Referendum.

    Surely 1st preference No, 2nd preference Yes ?
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    brokenwheel said:

    DavidL said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Is it not correct that the huge scatter in the polls is unprecedented?

    That is, I cannot recall having such large variations in results between the polling companies. We still have to find an explanation for this.

    As for Plaid Cymru, I think their 3 seats are relatively safe -- If one was to fall, I think it would be Arfon which has Bangor University within its boundaries. Labour did poorly in the local elections in North West Wales, so it would be an amazing result for Labour if they achieved it.

    I don't think that there is any doubt that there is a significant difference between those modelling on historic turnouts (ICM, Comres) and those modelling on self-declared intention to vote (Yougov, Survation). The latter have much smaller Tory leads and this involves a judgment as to whether those self-reporting voters turn up or not.

    The way I am seeing this at the moment if turnout is in the low 60s there will be a solid Tory majority, probably close to 100. For every percentage point above 65% that majority is going to fall because more of the self declared have turned up.
    The thing is it isn't actually about turnout at all, that's just a canary in the mine, it is fundamentally about unrepresentative samples and how different ways of weighting correct for this. The modellers may be correcting somewhat for unrepresentative samples while self-reporters seemingly are not correcting.
    But
    They can be unrepresentative, even if those saying they will vote actually vote. The online panels may just have many more politically-engaged people on them, artificially increasing the turnout. Those less engaged are less likely to be on panels, and are probably less likely to vote.
    That is undoubtedly true. The Yougov model of a huge panel in particular faces yet another challenge this election. If that panel has been gamed or, as you say, simply bears no relation to the UK population at large (because it actually cares about politics) they will have real problems not just with this result but their business model. They may have to start again.
    YouGov only generates a small proportion of its income from politics. I think their seat model is really just there to generate publicity and they're not that bothered if it's accurate or not.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2017
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. L, there are reportedly 23,000 people that are having an eye kept on them. That's not a number that can be kept under proper surveillance, unless we want a million policemen.

    What is proper surveillance? Being trailed 24x7 or simply having a number of automated monitors applied to their phone and web activity which would need almost no personnel? Who are the 20,000? Have they been assessed and prioritised? Have we gone too far in asking for reports so that everyone with dark skin, a beard and a dry-cleaning business is now on the list?

    I'm not expecting anyone to answer questions like these but one hopes a select committee or enquiry will pick them up next week.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The police knocked down the terrorists on Saturday in eight minutes. What more would you have wanted them to do?
    You've given the police a 1% pay rise and tax cuts to people to rich people who don't even live in this country.

    How do you sleep at night?
  • nichomar
    nichomar Posts: 7,483
    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    Yes out here in sunny Spain our policia local, the town halls police force are armed, as are the security guards who fill the cash machines. It doesn't result in an America like situation where they killing people every day. I can only recal two or three incidents in 10 years of an officer discharging a weapon. It is reassuring that one often sees an armed officer on the beach, especially after Tunisia.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    edited June 2017
    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
  • Gallowgate
    Gallowgate Posts: 20,709
    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    What about the other 6 years?
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Jacqui Smith and Gordon Brown oversaw that many inside five days. Or have you forgotten that? Fortunately the terrorists in question were the Diane Abbotts of planning and execution.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    DavidBrackenbury said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The police knocked down the terrorists on Saturday in eight minutes. What more would you have wanted them to do?
    You've given the police a 1% pay rise and tax cuts to people to rich people who don't even live in this country.

    How do you sleep at night?
    Again, why are people not living in this country paying taxes here? :p
  • Prodicus
    Prodicus Posts: 658
    Something in the wind this morning. Sniff... sniff... swingback. I can feel it.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Under theresa may we've had three terrorist attacks and your response is to take the piss out of diane abbott.

    you don't pay the police a decent salary. 8 minute response 1% pay rise 7 years.
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    No, I think we need more money in MI5. The police response was exemplary.
    The police response to the London Bridge attack was outstanding, the way forward in dealing/preventing these forms of low tech terrorist attacks is more resources to the security agencies and crack teams of armed police officers. - Restricting the powers of MI5 and a wishy washy policy on the rights and wrongs of shot to kill is the last thing the country needs.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    ydoethur said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Jacqui Smith and Gordon Brown oversaw that many inside five days. Or have you forgotten that? Fortunately the terrorists in question were the Diane Abbotts of planning and execution.
    lol, don't let facts get in the way of their cheap point scoring.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    freetochoose said:

    What a dismal choice we face, I decided when the election was called I wouldn't be voting, nothing has changed my mind. No party has given me a single positive reason to support them.

    I was prepared to give May a chance because she wasn't Cameron but she's every bit as vacuous. I have absolutely no idea what she believes in.

    She believes enough is enough in a strong and stable kind of way.

  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    freetochoose said:

    What does the culture secretary actually do?

    I like to imagine she spends her days touring ballet dress-rehearsals, politely clapping on behalf of the government.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    I do not know what odds are available against Theresa May going to the country but the frantic pb Tory spinning to exculpate the government from any responsibility whatsoever for these attacks makes me suspect there might be an election in the offing.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
    The party you vote for has just seen 3 terrorist attack in 3 months.

    your voting for a party that cuts police numbers, doesn't pay them a decent salary but gives money to the rich who don't even live in this country.

    public services in the toilet because staff are not being paid a decent salary.
  • Gallowgate
    Gallowgate Posts: 20,709
    TravelJunkie said:

    DavidBrackenbury said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The police knocked down the terrorists on Saturday in eight minutes. What more would you have wanted them to do?
    You've given the police a 1% pay rise and tax cuts to people to rich people who don't even live in this country.

    How do you sleep at night?
    There's no point debating with you because you are unable to even consider the other side of the argument.

    One can be opposed to giving the Police a below inflation pay increase but also acknowledge that increased pay wouldn't have made a difference to these attacks.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
    The party you vote for has just seen 3 terrorist attack in 3 months.

    your voting for a party that cuts police numbers, doesn't pay them a decent salary but gives money to the rich who don't even live in this country.

    public services in the toilet because staff are not being paid a decent salary.
    Now we are giving away money to the rich in other countries?
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    alex. said:

    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    Arming of police is a different question, and is arguably not really related to money at all.
    Indeed so. Routine arming of the "police on the beat" is certainly more an operational and cultural debate.

    The 20,000 police cuts is more about where those 20,000 might have been better deployed within the changing threat landscape. The Tory argument seems to revolve around police cuts being directly related to cuts in reported crime.
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I do not know what odds are available against Theresa May going to the country but the frantic pb Tory spinning to exculpate the government from any responsibility whatsoever for these attacks makes me suspect there might be an election in the offing.

    That's nothing to your woeful attempts to exculpate Brown for the 156 billion annual deficit Labour left behind.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
    Good question. Even scarier is that Theresa May could be Prime Minister on Friday so why is she not on telly?
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited June 2017
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Where is she? She could be Home Secretary by Friday - surely she should be leading Labour's response?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4569314/Diane-Abbott-BANNED-lone-TV-appearances.html
  • freetochoose
    freetochoose Posts: 1,107
    alex. said:

    freetochoose said:

    What does the culture secretary actually do?

    Oversees the police and security services, apparently.
    Really - what does that have to do with culture?

    Actually - what is culture? I've no idea.

  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Why won't the tory party pay police officers a decent salary?

    but the tory party gives massive tax cuts to rich people who don't live in britain

    can someone answer this please?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    JackW said:

    alex. said:

    JackW said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gallowgate said:

    I don't understand... The police seem to have dealt with these events incredibly well. Why are we talking like they didn't?

    What ever the short comings in intelligence - and no doubt we'll hear plenty more in the woulda shoulda coulda vein, it's difficult to fault 8 minutes from first report to three dead terrorists.
    Difficult to fault in the terms of the operational effectiveness of what was available in London. However if the baton wielding PC had a sidearm the three terrorist would likely have been stopped even earlier.

    I fear it's a debate we have to have. Where are the armed response teams in towns and rural areas?
    Arming of police is a different question, and is arguably not really related to money at all.
    Indeed so. Routine arming of the "police on the beat" is certainly more an operational and cultural debate.

    The 20,000 police cuts is more about where those 20,000 might have been better deployed within the changing threat landscape. The Tory argument seems to revolve around police cuts being directly related to cuts in reported crime.
    It's not just reported crime, but the crime survey which I think is a more accurate barometer of crime.
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    TravelJunkie said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Under theresa may we've had three terrorist attacks and your response is to take the piss out of diane abbott.

    you don't pay the police a decent salary. 8 minute response 1% pay rise 7 years.
    Diane Abbott wants to pay them between £30 and £8,000 a year, plus no money for uniforms, transport, weapons or offices.

    And you wonder why people take the piss out of her?
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    TravelJunkie said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Under theresa may we've had three terrorist attacks and your response is to take the piss out of diane abbott.

    you don't pay the police a decent salary. 8 minute response 1% pay rise 7 years.
    As a matter of interest can you tell me the salary of a fully qualified police officer
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    Why won't the tory party pay police officers a decent salary?

    but the tory party gives massive tax cuts to rich people who don't live in britain

    can someone answer this please?

    I'd first like to know why these rich people not living in Britain are expected to pay taxes.
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    Looks like we're in for a few days squalid campaigning ,chucking accusations on security to gain or defend a party position . It's a real shame.

    Whoever wins, we need to wake up on Friday morning without any hint of any truth in the claim 'its Isis wot won it'.

    The parties should have agreed a joint statement, we're united on security.
  • Bromptonaut
    Bromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual

    Is that surprising, she's the minister for culture, media, and sport.
    She could say she doesn't know - at least that would be honest. Not answering the question is so last year, darling.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
    Good question. Even scarier is that Theresa May could be Prime Minister on Friday so why is she not on telly?
    Hate to break it to you.. she already is :o
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Where is she? She could be Home Secretary by Friday - surely she should be leading Labour's response?
    stop thinking about diane abbott and ask yourself why you refuse to give the police a decent pay rise and tax cuts for people who don't live in this country.

    this is the party your voting for.
    the leader you want is someone who cut police by 20,000, oversaw 3 terrorist attacks under her watch and told the police federation - that they're scaremongering to say that britain would be less safe.

    PARTISAN TORIES who care more about their party than their country.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Bromptonaut said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    15minute interview and 24 times karen bradley refuses to answer if there are more or less armed police officers after telling piers morgan that hes wrong.

    politicians totally obsessed with pr and have no response in the robot manual

    Is that surprising, she's the minister for culture, media, and sport.
    She could say she doesn't know - at least that would be honest. Not answering the question is so last year, darling.
    Agreed on that front. They shouldn't be afraid to admit ignorance.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    RobD said:

    old_labour said:

    RobD said:

    old_labour said:

    Radio Times with what they consider will be the key moments of election night.

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-06-02/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-2017-general-election-night-coverage

    I'm getting too excited :o
    I'm in Boston so election night will begin for me at 5PM. That is going to feel odd.
    2pm for me :smiley: The 1 minute delay on the internet feed will be most annoying!
    Sky News' live YouTube channel has a much shorter delay, only a few seconds. Might be worth switching to that at 10pm.
    youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

    I'm three hours ahead of the UK, so election night for me will start at 1am! Definitely an all night party :)
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,347
    JonWC said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the hypothesis of the article proves correct, the more interesting question is why now?

    The gradual decline of two-party politics has always been analysed as part of a wider process of growing disillusion with politicians and the political establishment. There doesn't appear to be any reason nor much evidence for this process to have gone strikingly into reverse?

    The argument that minor parties would be squeezed out by the two-party choice could have been made at any British GE, yet third parties have consistently polled above 20%. Third parties have done well in terms of votes both when there were big ideological differences between the two parties (1983) and when there were relatively few (1997).

    By common consent the leadership of both Tory and Labour parties is seriously lacking.

    Apart from the US, which is a more severe environment for third views even than here, there doesn't seem to a similar process underway elsewhere in the west? In most European countries new or non-establishment political voices are thriving.

    When the election started the PB consensus was that Corbyn was so bad as to be destined for the low 20%s. Had we been able to foresee that the campaign was to expose so brutally May's shortcomings, I do not believe PB'ers would have put the Tories well above 40% regardless. It's all very strange.

    I think that this election is going to work out OK for the LDs, who will tread water in votes, and probably seats. we have a solid base in local government and more members than ever.

    It will obliterate UKIP, PC is regional even within Wales, and there is not insignificant chance of the Greens losing Brighton. We may well be the only 3rd party left in England by 2022. By then we will have a new leader, and there will be a time expired Tory party as well as a financially incontinent Labour one.

    This election came too soon for us, and Fallon has not had a good campaign, but by 2022 we will be the only ones onstage as alternatives to the big 2, outside Scotland.
    I think the LibDems have changed their character, perhaps as result of the exit of many classical liberals (at least down here in the West Country) and the influx of a lot of new people. There's evidently nothing like the talent there was in the parliamentary party, certainly nobody with the sense to stop the gross errors in the manifesto.

    It will take a decade at least to rebuild. I could easily the imagine fundamentalists spending that long agitating for a rejoin the EU policy the way some did over the euro before finally acknowledging reality.
    And they have a leader who does not seem to be a liberal.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    TravelJunkie said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Where is she? She could be Home Secretary by Friday - surely she should be leading Labour's response?
    stop thinking about diane abbott and ask yourself why you refuse to give the police a decent pay rise and tax cuts for people who don't live in this country.

    this is the party your voting for.
    the leader you want is someone who cut police by 20,000, oversaw 3 terrorist attacks under her watch and told the police federation - that they're scaremongering to say that britain would be less safe.

    PARTISAN TORIES who care more about their party than their country.
    Is it not also legitimate to ask about the person who may be home secretary in four days time?
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    I have just told you under labour the 10,000 police will not be on the streets for the next 3 years and Dianne Abbott has gone AWOL. She could be home sec on friday so why is she not on the media
    Good question. Even scarier is that Theresa May could be Prime Minister on Friday so why is she not on telly?
    Where have you been. Full statement from no 10 yesterday and further statement after Cobra today
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    Looks like we're in for a few days squalid campaigning ,chucking accusations on security to gain or defend a party position . It's a real shame.

    Whoever wins, we need to wake up on Friday morning without any hint of any truth in the claim 'its Isis wot won it'.

    The parties should have agreed a joint statement, we're united on security.

    That would be a lie as we clearly are not.. Ask Diane about shutting down MI5 and so on and so forth..
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    old_labour said:

    RobD said:

    old_labour said:

    Radio Times with what they consider will be the key moments of election night.

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-06-02/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-2017-general-election-night-coverage

    I'm getting too excited :o
    I'm in Boston so election night will begin for me at 5PM. That is going to feel odd.
    2pm for me :smiley: The 1 minute delay on the internet feed will be most annoying!
    Sky News' live YouTube channel has a much shorter delay, only a few seconds. Might be worth switching to that at 10pm.
    youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

    I'm three hours ahead of the UK, so election night for me will start at 1am! Definitely an all night party :)
    Ooo, I could watch it on sky.. then flip back to BBC and watch it again. That, or turn it off in despair. :D
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    edited June 2017
    The horrible thing about terrorism is that it works. It does scare people. Train noticeably emptier this morning. Conscious about the events of the weekend as I approach London with requisite stiff upper lip. Newspapers don't help.
  • DecrepitJohnL
    DecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    SquareRoot said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I do not know what odds are available against Theresa May going to the country but the frantic pb Tory spinning to exculpate the government from any responsibility whatsoever for these attacks makes me suspect there might be an election in the offing.

    That's nothing to your woeful attempts to exculpate Brown for the 156 billion annual deficit Labour left behind.
    I am a humble seeker after truth. You will note that I was pointing out the impact of the global financial crisis long after Gordon Brown ceased to be prime minister and while there was no election in sight. What we have now is desperate spinning until Friday when, whatever the result, many of the newer posters will fade away and those that remain can admit that maybe, just maybe, something could have been done better to prevent these outrages committed by people who were apparently known to the authorities.
  • ydoethur
    ydoethur Posts: 74,259
    TravelJunkie said:

    Why won't the tory party pay police officers a decent salary?

    but the tory party gives massive tax cuts to rich people who don't live in britain

    can someone answer this please?

    And Labour propose to hand over even larger sums of taxpayers' money to rich foreigners by borrowing huge sums to pay for vanity projects that will run at a loss.

    Would you explain the logic of this position in light of your attacks this morning?

    The issue with Labour is that they appear to suffer from cognitive dissonance - we will do X, while also doing Y which contradicts it. All politicians do that of course. But Corbyn gets away with doing it on a grand scale. Theresa May is, says he, a menace to society because of falling police numbers, but his attempt to stop murderers being convicted and locked up by rioting outside the courtroom is OK because they were the right sort of murderers and anyway someone else let them out later so that's OK as well.

    Bad enough an idiot like May, but the Jezziah is an actual menace and I'm worried that there are otherwise sane people who cannot or will not see this.
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    SquareRoot said:

    Jonathan said:

    Looks like we're in for a few days squalid campaigning ,chucking accusations on security to gain or defend a party position . It's a real shame.

    Whoever wins, we need to wake up on Friday morning without any hint of any truth in the claim 'its Isis wot won it'.

    The parties should have agreed a joint statement, we're united on security.

    That would be a lie as we clearly are not.. Ask Diane about shutting down MI5 and so on and so forth..
    On the contrary they are agreed on 90% of it.
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,347
    CarlottaVance said:

    It's all kicking off:

    https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/871614195502112769

    I think the issue is rather that it is talking to Iran.
    None of the states are exactly clean handed when it comes to islamic extremism.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,457
    TravelJunkie said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    RobD said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    You do know that labour's plan for 10,000 new police officers will only become a reality towards the end of this Parliament as admitted by Diane Abbott. And by the way where is she - she is the shadow home sec
    if diane abbott oversaw 3 terrorist attacks in 3 months you would be shouting at the rooftops but because you have tory goggles on you refuse to debate the issue and hold people to account
    Interesting that we have not really seen her after either the Manchester bombing, or this one.
    Where is she? She could be Home Secretary by Friday - surely she should be leading Labour's response?
    stop thinking about diane abbott and ask yourself why you refuse to give the police a decent pay rise and tax cuts for people who don't live in this country.

    this is the party your voting for.
    the leader you want is someone who cut police by 20,000, oversaw 3 terrorist attacks under her watch and told the police federation - that they're scaremongering to say that britain would be less safe.

    PARTISAN TORIES who care more about their party than their country.
    Does your requirement to post here end when your contract ends 10.00 pm Thursday?
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    TravelJunkie said:

    How many more terrorist attacks do we need to have before you start to think..ok we need more police officers on the streets.

    3 attacks under mays watch.

    The police knocked down the terrorists on Saturday in eight minutes. What more would you have wanted them to do?
    From the armed response team nothing more. The operational question ongoing is should the "baton police" now have discreet sidearms?
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    Nigelb said:

    JonWC said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the hypothesis of the article proves correct, the more interesting question is why now?

    The gradual decline of two-party politics has always been analysed as part of a wider process of growing disillusion with politicians and the political establishment. There doesn't appear to be any reason nor much evidence for this process to have gone strikingly into reverse?

    The argument that minor parties would be squeezed out by the two-party choice could have been made at any British GE, yet third parties have consistently polled above 20%. Third parties have done well in terms of votes both when there were big ideological differences between the two parties (1983) and when there were relatively few (1997).

    By common consent the leadership of both Tory and Labour parties is seriously lacking.

    Apart from the US, which is a more severe environment for third views even than here, there doesn't seem to a similar process underway elsewhere in the west? In most European countries new or non-establishment political voices are thriving.

    When the election started the PB consensus was that Corbyn was so bad as to be destined for the low 20%s. Had we been able to foresee that the campaign was to expose so brutally May's shortcomings, I do not believe PB'ers would have put the Tories well above 40% regardless. It's all very strange.

    I think that this election is going to work out OK for the LDs, who will tread water in votes, and probably seats. we have a solid base in local government and more members than ever.

    It will obliterate UKIP, PC is regional even within Wales, and there is not insignificant chance of the Greens losing Brighton. We may well be the only 3rd party left in England by 2022. By then we will have a new leader, and there will be a time expired Tory party as well as a financially incontinent Labour one.

    This election came too soon for us, and Fallon has not had a good campaign, but by 2022 we will be the only ones onstage as alternatives to the big 2, outside Scotland.
    I think the LibDems have changed their character, perhaps as result of the exit of many classical liberals (at least down here in the West Country) and the influx of a lot of new people. There's evidently nothing like the talent there was in the parliamentary party, certainly nobody with the sense to stop the gross errors in the manifesto.

    It will take a decade at least to rebuild. I could easily the imagine fundamentalists spending that long agitating for a rejoin the EU policy the way some did over the euro before finally acknowledging reality.
    And they have a leader who does not seem to be a liberal.
    Or a democrat...
  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pay astroturfers footballers' wages.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    SquareRoot said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    I do not know what odds are available against Theresa May going to the country but the frantic pb Tory spinning to exculpate the government from any responsibility whatsoever for these attacks makes me suspect there might be an election in the offing.

    That's nothing to your woeful attempts to exculpate Brown for the 156 billion annual deficit Labour left behind.
    I am a humble seeker after truth. You will note that I was pointing out the impact of the global financial crisis long after Gordon Brown ceased to be prime minister and while there was no election in sight. What we have now is desperate spinning until Friday when, whatever the result, many of the newer posters will fade away and those that remain can admit that maybe, just maybe, something could have been done better to prevent these outrages committed by people who were apparently known to the authorities.
    Of course lessons have to be learned from this. I imagine the situation will be similar to last time - they were flagged, surveilled, and then not perceived to be an imminent threat and dropped down the priority list.
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    Jonathan said:

    The horrible thing about terrorism is that it works. Train noticeably emptier this morning. Conscious about the events of the weekend as I approach London with requisite stiff upper lip. Newspapers don't help.

    More likely due to being half term in some areas
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