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Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
@PolhomeEditor: In response to Corbyn comments, Scottish Labour spokesman says: “Labour firmly opposes a second Scottish independence referendum."0
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Good planning.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Corbynistas getting their excuses in early. https://twitter.com/labour_insider/status/869170638270988290
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Yes, we did.Scott_P said:
That is the reality of Brexit. We voted away UK citizens rights.Charles said:If that is their position then it is clear they don't want a deal
The fact that Brexiteers haven't grasped that yet is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying
But no government (except Blair in the extradition treaty with the US) would accept unbalanced future rights
My guess is this is an opening position, but if it's a redline then they don't wAnt a deal0 -
And it will also make May's moves on pensioners look even more of an electoral mistake.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
Tories like using words like "execute" and "shot".SouthamObserver said:0 -
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
And?surbiton said:
Tories like using words like "execute" and "shot".SouthamObserver said:0 -
As I said yesterday, the weekend polls that cheered Tories were after several days of Prime minister May in sole command of the airwaves. All quite appropriate, but unrealistic to expect it to carry on like that. It may have been peak Tory.SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
We've now had several days of the Tory IRA offensive, which I suspect won't make a lot of difference. Next they'll try the Sindyref line again. But what's missing is a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote for Mrs May and the Tory Government. It's all Project Fear, vs Corbyn's Project Hope. Yes, some of the hope may be a bit shaky - do those sums really add up, have they allowed for every bit of the detail, would Labour MPs be too restive to govern? But it's hope, and that's a powerful emotion in bleak times.
And you know what? I think Project Fear may not actually work at all this time.0 -
She risked telling them the truth for once, not bribing them, on the basis if there was ever a time it could be risked it would be now. That's probably still right, although it will reduce the majority to less than stellar.rottenborough said:
And it will also make May's moves on pensioners look even more of an electoral mistake.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
2001 was the nadir, since when turnout has been steadily recovering amongst those aged 35 and over. 25-34 year olds also up, but much further adrift than they were as recently as the Nineties.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
The very young - well...
It would appear that the higher Labour figures given in the polls that are best for that party are particularly reliant on the support of young voters (and previous non-voters) who *claim* that they're going to turn out in strength this time. Hmmm...0 -
Exactly. As Cameron's promise was based on the Dilnot report, I thought there was a chance it would be implemented. I was pretty sure it would end up being higher than previously mooted - hence the £100K.David_Evershed said:
The Cameron government were introducing a £72,000 cap in 2020.Charles said:
Why had you arranged it around a cap of £100k when that wasn't the law?rottenborough said:
Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".Norm said:
Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.Patrick said:
I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.SeanT said:
I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.Jason said:
So who's correct - ICM or the others?SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.logical_song said:
So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. I'm a Democrat.PClipp said:
Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?TheScreamingEagles said:My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.
Brexit must be respected and honoured.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
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I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?0 -
Had it been implemented before the Ancien Regime fell?David_Evershed said:
The Cameron government were introducing a £72,000 cap in 2020.Charles said:
Why had you arranged it around a cap of £100k when that wasn't the law?rottenborough said:
Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".Norm said:
Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.Patrick said:
I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.SeanT said:
I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.Jason said:
So who's correct - ICM or the others?SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.logical_song said:
So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. I'm a Democrat.PClipp said:
Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?TheScreamingEagles said:My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.
Brexit must be respected and honoured.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.0 -
Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
Sturgeon did better against Andrew Neil than did May or Corbyn.calum said:
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/868911934690734081David_Evershed said:
Andrew Neil is the best informed questioner and able to comeback on the answers with more facts to support his initial question.Yorkcity said:
I think more will watch next week Big G . It is on York .We should have the English Parliament here.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sophy has done really well but the rest are poor and lack balance, in particular Faisal Islam who is Juncker's chief assistant.Ishmael_Z said:
Sophy Ridge is a class act, mind.matt said:
Sky - never knowingly under-promoted.dyedwoolie said:Sky really trying to sell tonight as make or break for both leaders. Unsurprisingly hyperbolic about their own show
Sky have been way over the top today promoting their debate but how many will watch it compared to the BBC question time debate next week
For greater enlightenment rather than entertainment you can't beat Andrew Neil.
Paxman doesn't do his homework and is out of touch.
Audience questions are a waste of time.
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I suspect Nick Timothy is about as popular as Mark Reckless 0
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fbi-warned-mi5-january-manchester-attack-bomber-salman-abedi-manchester-arena-a7760756.html
MI5 warned in January. No action. Cuts ?
Now it is quite clear that they can round up known contacts so quickly.0 -
Corbynite like to action the wordssurbiton said:
Tories like using words like "execute" and "shot".SouthamObserver said:0 -
I am seriously beginning to think you may be right. Certainly the feeling in my waters is that the Tories have blown this. My head says not. I am conflicted.NickPalmer said:
As I said yesterday, the weekend polls that cheered Tories were after several days of Prime minister May in sole command of the airwaves. All quite appropriate, but unrealistic to expect it to carry on like that. It may have been peak Tory.SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
We've now had several days of the Tory IRA offensive, which I suspect won't make a lot of difference. Next they'll try the Sindyref line again. But what's missing is a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote for Mrs May and the Tory Government. It's all Project Fear, vs Corbyn's Project Hope. Yes, some of the hope may be a bit shaky - do those sums really add up, have they allowed for every bit of the detail, would Labour MPs be too restive to govern? But it's hope, and that's a powerful emotion in bleak times.
And you know what? I think Project Fear may not actually work at all this time.0 -
A flat out lie, sorry to say. People keep saying the Tories have offered no vision, but I have read all the manifestos, and they have - they are claiming to offer a realistic and fair solution to the giant challenges facing the country, rather than unrealistic promises (and once again, unlike the Labour manifesto they don't mention Corbyn or Labour once). People may disagree with those solutions, or they may think them uninspiring and not aspirational enough, not positive enough, but they have made a positive offer rather than just said 'Don't vote for Corbyn'. Yes that is the focus of the media war, but they have offered reasons to vote May and the Tories beyond the fear, and it is not true to say they haven't.NickPalmer said:
. But what's missing is a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote for Mrs May and the Tory Government.SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
By the same logic, Labour have offered nothing positive other than the Tories are evil bastards. But that wouldn't be true. They have more positive policies to offer than the Tories because they are offering to invest and spend to reverse the decline of the nation, but negatives get more attention.
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Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.0 -
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.0 -
Sunday Times was saying Fiona Hill and Lyton 'dead cat' Crosby both opposed putting the dementia tax material in the manifesto iirc. It was Nick Timothy.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?
If I recall, someone on PB said the whole ST story came from a spin from Crosby himself, but that might have been speculation.0 -
Which part of this are you failing to understand.Charles said:Yes, we did.
But no government (except Blair in the extradition treaty with the US) would accept unbalanced future rights
EU citizens (today) have rights that future UK citizens will not.
That is a fact, not a basis for negotiation, and remains true whatever deal we strike or don't strike.
If there is no deal, it's true. The only reason it's not true today is because as an EU member we accept the 4 freedoms.
The only future deal in which it would not be true is if we didn't leave.
Brexiteers arguing against Brexit.
Priceless.0 -
In fairness it appears pensioners themselves are far less bothered about the proposed now neutered social care changes than their 50 year old beneficiaries.rottenborough said:
And it will also make May's moves on pensioners look even more of an electoral mistake.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
MI5 certainly haven't had their budget cut.surbiton said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fbi-warned-mi5-january-manchester-attack-bomber-salman-abedi-manchester-arena-a7760756.html
MI5 warned in January. No action. Cuts ?
Now it is quite clear that they can round up known contacts so quickly.0 -
But the cap will benefit the beneficiaries.Norm said:
In fairness it appears pensioners themselves are far less bothered about the proposed now neutered social care changes than their 50 year old beneficiaries.rottenborough said:
And it will also make May's moves on pensioners look even more of an electoral mistake.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.0 -
They are blaming each other, leaking to the press, which shows the Tories are in a panic. It hardly matters. May signed off on it all.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?0 -
Yeah they turned out for Nick. Didn't the LibDems lost seats that year?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.0 -
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I wonder what PB Tories would have said if Manchester happened under a Labour government and if it was known that information existed about Abedi.RobD said:
MI5 certainly haven't had their budget cut.surbiton said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fbi-warned-mi5-january-manchester-attack-bomber-salman-abedi-manchester-arena-a7760756.html
MI5 warned in January. No action. Cuts ?
Now it is quite clear that they can round up known contacts so quickly.
The PM to resign or just the Home Secretary ?0 -
calum said:
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/868911934690734081David_Evershed said:
Andrew Neil is the best informed questioner and able to comeback on the answers with more facts to support his initial question.Yorkcity said:
I think more will watch next week Big G . It is on York .We should have the English Parliament here.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Sophy has done really well but the rest are poor and lack balance, in particular Faisal Islam who is Juncker's chief assistant.Ishmael_Z said:
Sophy Ridge is a class act, mind.matt said:
Sky - never knowingly under-promoted.dyedwoolie said:Sky really trying to sell tonight as make or break for both leaders. Unsurprisingly hyperbolic about their own show
Sky have been way over the top today promoting their debate but how many will watch it compared to the BBC question time debate next week
For greater enlightenment rather than entertainment you can't beat Andrew Neil.
Paxman doesn't do his homework and is out of touch.
Audience questions are a waste of time.
Guardian
Responding to a freedom of information request, the DH disclosed that 4,620 frontline staff were made compulsorily redundant between 2010-11 and 2012-13, and a further 2,430 voluntarily redundant.
Labour, which obtained the DH's response, said it did not specify how many of each type of staff were made redundant. But the 7,060 total does include doctors, nurses, midwives, health visitors, ambulance staff and qualified scientific, therapeutic and technical staff, the DH said.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/31/nhs-staff-laid-off-amid-savings-drive
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Is this the first election in a long time where the manifestos actually mattered? I guess Lab's 1945 manifesto could definitely be said to have made a big difference - any others?surbiton said:
Tories like using words like "execute" and "shot".SouthamObserver said:0 -
No, they don't have these imagined rights. It's up to the UK government what rights to extend themScott_P said:
Which part of this are you failing to understand.Charles said:Yes, we did.
But no government (except Blair in the extradition treaty with the US) would accept unbalanced future rights
EU citizens (today) have rights that future UK citizens will not.
That is a fact, not a basis for negotiation, and remains true whatever deal we strike or don't strike.
If there is no deal, it's true. The only reason it's not true today is because as an EU member we accept the 4 freedoms.
The only future deal in which it would not be true is if we didn't leave.
Brexiteers arguing against Brexit.
Priceless.0 -
Probably not.surbiton said:
I wonder what PB Tories would have said if Manchester happened under a Labour government and if it was known that information existed about Abedi.RobD said:
MI5 certainly haven't had their budget cut.surbiton said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fbi-warned-mi5-january-manchester-attack-bomber-salman-abedi-manchester-arena-a7760756.html
MI5 warned in January. No action. Cuts ?
Now it is quite clear that they can round up known contacts so quickly.
The PM to resign or just the Home Secretary ?0 -
You're assuming that people are voting entirely for themselves.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
At the age of 35, once you're earning 50k, 100k, whatever, in a nice grad job, you don't care so much about that 30k bill.
But a 23 year old on a grad salary of 19k with the burden of 30k debt fresh in his mind, coupled with the horror of insane house prices (30k = deposit for a house) might very well say "well, I got shafted last year but now here's my chance to shaft the establishment back. it may not cancel my 30k debt but at least the next lot won't have to go through this."
Being saddled with 30k debt is a very raw pain to suffer in your early 30s and even if Corbyn can't clear existing debts I think it will get out the vote from young people who've already been saddled with it.
And it will definitely get out the vote of their parents.0 -
To be fair, Hunt was consulted. That's wher ethe problem started.kle4 said:
They are blaming each other, leaking to the press, which shows the Tories are in a panic. It hardly matters. May signed off on it all.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?0 -
Given information turns out to be have been known about many perpetrators with previous attacks, I am sure that is not what the general reaction would be.surbiton said:
I wonder what PB Tories would have said if Manchester happened under a Labour government and if it was known that information existed about Abedi.RobD said:
MI5 certainly haven't had their budget cut.surbiton said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fbi-warned-mi5-january-manchester-attack-bomber-salman-abedi-manchester-arena-a7760756.html
MI5 warned in January. No action. Cuts ?
Now it is quite clear that they can round up known contacts so quickly.
The PM to resign or just the Home Secretary ?0 -
So she's seen the Battle of Britain film, which is the way it portrays it. Big deal?Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
Only problem is that any taxpayer over 22 might pause and think I am the one paying for this largesse and vote Tory. For every promise on both sides there's always a countervailing view. For example ending free school dinners is unpopular among the relatively affluent young parents that will be affected but older taxpayers wonder why their taxes pay for something that wasn't free in their day.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.0 -
Not that many grads in their mid-30s are on 50-100k, particularly outside London and those who didn't the top-earning degree courses. With the current tuition fee set-up, I seem to recall the proportion of grads expected to repay their entire loan was rather low, especially for arts graduates and women.kyf_100 said:
You're assuming that people are voting entirely for themselves.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
At the age of 35, once you're earning 50k, 100k, whatever, in a nice grad job, you don't care so much about that 30k bill.
But a 23 year old on a grad salary of 19k with the burden of 30k debt fresh in his mind, coupled with the horror of insane house prices (30k = deposit for a house) might very well say "well, I got shafted last year but now here's my chance to shaft the establishment back. it may not cancel my 30k debt but at least the next lot won't have to go through this."
Being saddled with 30k debt is a very raw pain to suffer in your early 30s and even if Corbyn can't clear existing debts I think it will get out the vote from young people who've already been saddled with it.
And it will definitely get out the vote of their parents.0 -
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
Crosby knows the older demographic usually vote Tory in their droves so I would be surprised if he thought it was a good idea to put it in there.rottenborough said:
Sunday Times was saying Fiona Hill and Lyton 'dead cat' Crosby both opposed putting the dementia tax material in the manifesto iirc. It was Nick Timothy.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?
If I recall, someone on PB said the whole ST story came from a spin from Crosby himself, but that might have been speculation.
I still look at it and keep thinking to myself why the hell they did it even though I know it's a controversial subject and for years they have tried to find solutions to the problem.
It's just a weird manifesto all around, the energy cap for example that Miliband and Labour were calling for. In the run up you had Hammond talking about tax rises and what may or may not go up and they had to backtrack on some of that.
Got to think if they put out a traditional tory manifesto pretty much staying the course they are on we wouldn't have seen this dip.
Is it hubris? They thought they could be bolder, put anything out there because they thought a big majority was already in the bag?0 -
It was a sound strategy. Go after the grey bribe vote with keeping triple lock and WFA (with added benefit of social care proposals from the tories being poorly received, even as Labour's policy is 'set up a national care service' which is probably a good idea, but admits in the text they don't know how it will be funded yet - possibilities include a wealth tax, but they say they will seek a consensus with other parties. It also will only have its foundations laid in the first labour term), and get the young to pretty please turn out by ditching tuition fees.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
Because the Tories decided not to go heavy on the freebies, they cannot counter with policy very easily, hence the desperate focus on the leadership alone.0 -
Over 5 years.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
Dale on what Tories need to do, starting tomorrow:
http://iaindale.com/posts/2017/05/28/what-should-the-tories-do-to-get-their-campaign-back-on-track-answer-let-lynton-be-lynton-maybe-ditch-the-social-care-policy-altogether
He raises a good question: where the hell is the Party Chairman?0 -
My assumption is they thought the cost of a few seats by including some realistic stuff, was worth the trade off of an easier passage through parliament later because they were outright manifesto commitments. So probably a bit of hubris.jonny83 said:
Is it hubris? They thought they could be bolder, put anything out there because they thought a big majority was already in the bag?rottenborough said:
Sunday Times was saying Fiona Hill and Lyton 'dead cat' Crosby both opposed putting the dementia tax material in the manifesto iirc. It was Nick Timothy.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?
If I recall, someone on PB said the whole ST story came from a spin from Crosby himself, but that might have been speculation.
They may have miscalculated, as they won't get a landslide now, but nor will it be very comfortable - 50ish.0 -
Yes, quite probably, I can't recall, but usually these things are over a Parliament.surbiton said:
Over 5 years.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
My point was the size of it compared to anything else, e.g. NHS, social care etc etc0 -
0
-
Well, the June 19th meeting will have to be postponed ?SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
Certainly looks that way.jonny83 said:
Crosby knows the older demographic usually vote Tory in their droves so I would be surprised if he thought it was a good idea to put it in there.rottenborough said:
Sunday Times was saying Fiona Hill and Lyton 'dead cat' Crosby both opposed putting the dementia tax material in the manifesto iirc. It was Nick Timothy.jonny83 said:I'd love to see Ruth come down to Westminster I think she is brilliant.
On a separate note has any inside info come out in the press yet about the clusterfuck of a manifesto the Tories came up with?. Who had what input?
If I recall, someone on PB said the whole ST story came from a spin from Crosby himself, but that might have been speculation.
I still look at it and keep thinking to myself why the hell they did it even though I know it's a controversial subject and for years they have tried to find solutions to the problem.
It's just a weird manifesto all around, the energy cap for example that Miliband and Labour were calling for. In the run up you had Hammond talking about tax rises and what may or may not go up and they had to backtrack on some of that.
Got to think if they put out a traditional tory manifesto pretty much staying the course they are on we wouldn't have seen this dip.
Is it hubris? They thought they could be bolder, put anything out there because they thought a big majority was already in the bag?0 -
I've read them both too. But a campaign is not just a manifesto, it's the way the party chooses to present it and the reason to vote for them. In yout rebuttal, you don't cite a single actual policy, you just say that you remember seeing policies when you read the document. I suggrest to you that if the Tories had a positive programme that they were keen to push, then vatrious elements of it would spring to mind. Instead, they keep hammering home at a vacuous slogan (strong and table) and scare tactics.kle4 said:
A flat out lie, sorry to say. People keep saying the Tories have offered no vision, but I have read all the manifestos, and they have - they are claiming to offer a realistic and fair solution to the giant challenges facing the country, rather than unrealistic promises (and once again, unlike the Labour manifesto they don't mention Corbyn or Labour once). People may disagree with those solutions, or they may think them uninspiring and not aspirational enough, not positive enough, but they have made a positive offer rather than just said 'Don't vote for Corbyn'. Yes that is the focus of the media war, but they have offered reasons to vote May and the Tories beyond the fear, and it is not true to say they haven't.NickPalmer said:
. But what's missing is a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote for Mrs May and the Tory Government.SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
By the same logic, Labour have offered nothing positive other than the Tories are evil bastards. But that wouldn't be true. They have more positive policies to offer than the Tories because they are offering to invest and spend to reverse the decline of the nation, but negatives get more attention.
This isn't just me - it's evident from polls too. Voters don't remember anything but the care homes stuff, because they arn't being told about it.0 -
So if you are so fecking smart, how come we are leaving the EU? If ever a vote was lost rather than won it was the EUref; if you and a very few thousand fellow keyboard warriors had got off your fat arses and DONE something about it, we wouldn't be here today. It is beyond pathetic, the background whine of "Ooooh, they told fibs, oooh we never realised a large proportion of the electorate were not the brightest and even a bit gullible, oooh we don't like democracy when it doesn't go our way." You sound like an England fan blaming Euro 2016 on the Icelanders - we never realised they had a professional coach, and practised, and everything.Scott_P said:
Oh dear.Charles said:No, they don't have these imagined rights.
You really think EU citizens don't have EU rights...
No wonder you were taken in by the Brexit campaign.0 -
Who is the party chairman?rottenborough said:Dale on what Tories need to do, starting tomorrow:
http://iaindale.com/posts/2017/05/28/what-should-the-tories-do-to-get-their-campaign-back-on-track-answer-let-lynton-be-lynton-maybe-ditch-the-social-care-policy-altogether
He raises a good question: where the hell is the Party Chairman?
0 -
As many keep on repeating here that many students will not repay the loans over their lifetime, the cost will not be as much after all.rottenborough said:
Yes, quite probably, I can't recall, but usually these things are over a Parliament.surbiton said:
Over 5 years.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
My point was the size of it compared to anything else, e.g. NHS, social care etc etc0 -
I am in full on pants-wetting mode this weekend because I spent much if it in the pub with my Corbynista mates and the anticipation they feel is palpable.Norm said:
Only problem is that any taxpayer over 22 might pause and think I am the one paying for this largesse and vote Tory. For every promise on both sides there's always a countervailing view. For example ending free school dinners is unpopular among the relatively affluent young parents that will be affected but older taxpayers wonder why their taxes pay for something that wasn't free in their day.
They don't think they will win, but they sense that change is in the air. They feel as if they are in the ascendancy and it is only a matter of time.
They sense weakness. They sense blood. The right are no longer in control of the anti-establishment narrative.
To your point, I really don't think a 23 year old (27 year old? I imagine it is different the older you get) will be thinking "Well I got saddled with 30k debt so bugger the people two or three years younger than me, they can bloody well pay it too" - they are more likely to think how unfair it is and to vote in anger against the establishment that saddled them with the debt.
0 -
How tragicRobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
imagine some poor vice chancellor on £600k a year might have to stop flying business class0 -
No-one said that the PM or Home Secretary should resign over the intelligence failings of 7/7. You have a very odd habit of making up things which you think 'PB Tories' would do, and then attacking your fantasy.surbiton said:I wonder what PB Tories would have said if Manchester happened under a Labour government and if it was known that information existed about Abedi.
The PM to resign or just the Home Secretary ?0 -
Was he driving through Hamerton Zoo?TheScreamingEagles said:He doesn't look pisssed
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/8692153054736834560 -
Interesting article and yes I would give Crosby full control.rottenborough said:Dale on what Tories need to do, starting tomorrow:
http://iaindale.com/posts/2017/05/28/what-should-the-tories-do-to-get-their-campaign-back-on-track-answer-let-lynton-be-lynton-maybe-ditch-the-social-care-policy-altogether
He raises a good question: where the hell is the Party Chairman?0 -
Essentially what is happening to Scottish universities as we speak, fee payers will be prized over the local students.RobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
Not much cost at all? For the policy to work for universities it is not the amount that students repay that matters, it is ensuring that the amount they receive at the start is the same. The IFS say the policy will cost £13.4bn over the Parliament. Long term costs are lower, but still £9bn. Hardly nothing.surbiton said:
As many keep on repeating here that many students will not repay the loans over their lifetime, the cost will not be as much after all.rottenborough said:
Yes, quite probably, I can't recall, but usually these things are over a Parliament.surbiton said:
Over 5 years.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
My point was the size of it compared to anything else, e.g. NHS, social care etc etc0 -
My daughter is 26 and currently being taxed at £120 month for having gone to University, her husband pays more.Norm said:
Only problem is that any taxpayer over 22 might pause and think I am the one paying for this largesse and vote Tory. For every promise on both sides there's always a countervailing view. For example ending free school dinners is unpopular among the relatively affluent young parents that will be affected but older taxpayers wonder why their taxes pay for something that wasn't free in their day.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
Try getting a mortgage and telling the bankmanager its only a loan so it doesnt count0 -
I doubt that accounts for 30%Alanbrooke said:
How tragicRobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
imagine some poor vice chancellor on £600k a year might have to stop flying business class
0 -
We will issue bonds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
And which has shown to be a detriment to poorer students.HaroldO said:
Essentially what is happening to Scottish universities as we speak, fee payers will be prized over the local students.RobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
"On top of that Farron has made a very specific pledge not to go into coalition after June 8th.
The rest of us know LibDem leaders cannot be trusted to keep election promises (think tuition fees): indeed no politician can be...0 -
Yeah, you'd have to borrow.surbiton said:
We will issue bonds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
As I understand it, the Luftwaffe started bombing central London by accident, the RAF responded with a single raid against strategic targets in Berlin, and in retaliation the Luftwaffe launched the Blitz.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g
But in any case, if you watch the interview, you'll see that Murnaghan is ridiculing the idea that the Blitz was a response to British bombing of Germany.0 -
It still might be, and this is all fluff and panic.SeanT said:This election was meant to be "boring"
That's not the same as not having a single positive reason to vote Tory. Sorry, a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON. I've been clear that the Tory offer is not as positive as the Labour one, and that's obviously by design as they want to contrast what they see as realistic vs fantasy, and I said that the focus of the media part of the campaign is focused on Corbyn.Obviously it has. But again, that is not the same as the bold statement that they are missing a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote Tory. That is untrue. Has the positive stuff been put forward enough? No. Are they as attractive as the Labour policies? No, it is the nicest one. But for one thing, offering what some consider more realistic proposals could be argued to be a positive reason to vote Tory, even if it involves some pain. 'We're being honest about the tough choices that have to be made' is I would say a positive reason to vote for someone, though people may well feel May and the Tories are not being honest about it.NickPalmer said:
I've read them both too. But a campaign is not just a manifesto, it's the way the party chooses to present it and the reason to vote for them. In yout rebuttal, you don't cite a single actual policy, you just say that you remember seeing policies when you read the document. I suggrest to you that if the Tories had a positive programme that they were keen to push, then vatrious elements of it would spring to mind. Instead, they keep hammering home at a vacuous slogan (strong and table) and scare tactics.kle4 said:
A flatasons to vote May and the Tories beyond the fear, and it is not true to say they haven't.NickPalmer said:
. But what's missing is a SINGLE POSITIVE REASON to vote for Mrs May and the Tory Government.SeanT said:
If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.
Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
By the same log
This isn't just me - it's evident from polls too. Voters don't remember anything but the care homes stuff, because they arn't being told about it.
And no I didn't cite policies, that was a space consideration. No one objected in the past when I said Labour's was the nicest manifesto in terms of policies but didn't cite anything. Funny, I guess when it is a positive point there's no need to cite?0 -
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
The RAF's bombing of Berlin towards the end of August 1940, personally ordered by Churchill, helped win the Battle of Britain, because in retaliation, the Germans switched the focus of their aerial attacks from Fighter Command's airfields to London. This gave Fighter Command, which had been heavily battered in the previous weeks, a crucial opportunity to regroup and bring in new planes and pilots.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
I would like to see your reaction if there is a poll with Tory lead of less than 4%. Your wine collection will not be enough !SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
It's almost comical.
0 -
Not true, if the Lib Dems regained every seat they lost to the Tories in 2015 that would put the Tories on 304 seats, 22 short of a majority.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
clearlyRobD said:
I doubt that accounts for 30%Alanbrooke said:
How tragicRobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.
imagine some poor vice chancellor on £600k a year might have to stop flying business class
but then maybe the fees wouldnt have to go up if they controlled their costs0 -
After having issued bonds to buy the national industries as well.....there's a trend here.surbiton said:
We will issue bonds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RobD said:
IFS say it will lead to universities having 30% less cash per year per student than under the current system. Labour are also musing about cancelling all student debt.rottenborough said:
1. £11billion I think was the figure in the Guardian.Ishmael_Z said:
1. Has it been costed?kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
2. Unless it is retrospective the current undergraduates pay twice, once for themselves and once for their younger successors. This would be a wizard wheeze if 16 y.o.s had the vote.
It was by far the biggest spending commitment in Lab manifesto. Twice the nearest other one.0 -
re the longish social care thread
Mr Evershed points out that a cap was being proposed for 2020
Under new proposals you do do not pay anything if your assets are less than 100,000. Over that you must pay - but only after death - and your house if that is the source of your asset is not sold until you are dead. There will still be a cap and the current proposed cap as you say is 72,000.
If you are in care and alone, say widowed or widower, then whilst in care the house presumably can be rented for an income (?). Surely this is the benefit of the change as I understand it of the house not being sold until the person in care has died. (?)
Home care is much less expensive and to twist this into some form of evil tax shall we say disingenuous.
It is I suppose possible to criticise Mrs May but the 72,000 cap was meant to come in in 2016 but in 2015 it was delayed until 2020.
The BBC reported ''The Department of Health said it was still "firmly committed" to the cap, but questions are now being raised whether the policy needs rethinking.'' So the Cameron govt were already changing the terms of any calculations people might be making - and whats the betting that the manifesto proposals were the way 'thinking' was going??
This suggest that with the best will in the world the problem is real and a big one and its a bit fatuous to stick heads in the sand over it. Labour with 3 billion seem whistling in the dark
Councils say there will be a shortfall of £4.3 billion by 2020 and that the increase in national minimum/living wage will have an effect.
There is no escape for the better off under Labour. The student fee give away is indeed a transfer from the poor to the rich but the inevitable wealth tax IHT that Corbyn would bring in would more than wipe out any benefit and leave care in old age hanging on a precipice.
0 -
Fact free rant.Ishmael_Z said:
So if you are so fecking smart, how come we are leaving the EU? If ever a vote was lost rather than won it was the EUref; if you and a very few thousand fellow keyboard warriors had got off your fat arses and DONE something about it, we wouldn't be here today. It is beyond pathetic, the background whine of "Ooooh, they told fibs, oooh we never realised a large proportion of the electorate were not the brightest and even a bit gullible, oooh we don't like democracy when it doesn't go our way." You sound like an England fan blaming Euro 2016 on the Icelanders - we never realised they had a professional coach, and practised, and everything.Scott_P said:
Oh dear.Charles said:No, they don't have these imagined rights.
You really think EU citizens don't have EU rights...
No wonder you were taken in by the Brexit campaign.0 -
Well he wouldn't need to go into coalition anyway. If the situation arose, do it on a case by case basis.madasafish said:"On top of that Farron has made a very specific pledge not to go into coalition after June 8th.
The rest of us know LibDem leaders cannot be trusted to keep election promises (think tuition fees): indeed no politician can be...0 -
I think Derby North could be Lab Gain.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.
But for PB Tories in full panic mode
Trust me TMICIPM and I always get these things spot on!!0 -
?IanB2 said:
So she's seen the Battle of Britain film, which is the way it portrays it. Big deal?Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g
Diane Abbott didn't even mention the Second World War in that video.0 -
That's how I remember it (not from being there!). London was off limits to German bombing, Hitler's personal orders only. A lone German bomber got lost and jettisoned its bombs, thinking it was away from the city, but they landed in central London. Churchill ordered a single bombing raid to Berlin, as you say, and Hitler retaliated by redirecting his air force to London. Up to that point their bombing of airfields and radar stations had been causing us real difficulties. Bombing London instead was a civilian tragedy, but did allow the RAF to recover. It's all in the 1969 film.Chris said:
As I understand it, the Luftwaffe started bombing central London by accident, the RAF responded with a single raid against strategic targets in Berlin, and in retaliation the Luftwaffe launched the Blitz.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g
But in any case, if you watch the interview, you'll see that Murnaghan is ridiculing the idea that the Blitz was a response to British bombing of Germany.0 -
The conventional view is that Luftwaffe accidentally bombed civilan parts of London, UK launched a single retaliatory raid to deliberately bombed Berlin, Germany responds with the Blitz. Which was really bloody lucky as UK air defence infrastructure was on its knees and one last push against British airfields and the UK would have been helpless. Instead Germany diverting all the bomb tonnage to civilian targets gave Air Command time to rest and regroup.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
Really? Poor strategic decision by German high command there then.Alistair said:
The conventional view is that Luftwaffe accidentally bombed civilan parts of London, UK launched a single retaliatory raid to deliberately bombed Berlin, Germany responds with the Blitz. Which was really bloody lucky as UK air defence infrastructure was on its knees and one last push against British airfields and the UK would have been helpless. Instead Germany diverting all the bomb tonnage to civilian targets gave Air Command time to rest and regroup.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
Labour hanging their policies on a skyhook in order to win an election? Its a thought. Where would that leave the intellectual calibre of the electorate?SeanT said:
Labour could seal TMay's fate with some clever maneuvering on Brexit in the final week.kyf_100 said:
I am in full on pants-wetting mode this weekend because I spent much if it in the pub with my Corbynista mates and the anticipation they feel is palpable.Norm said:
Only problem is that any taxpayer over 22 might pause and think I am the one paying for this largesse and vote Tory. For every promise on both sides there's always a countervailing view. For example ending free school dinners is unpopular among the relatively affluent young parents that will be affected but older taxpayers wonder why their taxes pay for something that wasn't free in their day.
They don't think they will win, but they sense that change is in the air. They feel as if they are in the ascendancy and it is only a matter of time.
They sense weakness. They sense blood. The right are no longer in control of the anti-establishment narrative.
To your point, I really don't think a 23 year old (27 year old? I imagine it is different the older you get) will be thinking "Well I got saddled with 30k debt so bugger the people two or three years younger than me, they can bloody well pay it too" - they are more likely to think how unfair it is and to vote in anger against the establishment that saddled them with the debt.
Come out and announce some insane plan to stay in EFTA, the Single Market, Customs union, but with immigration controls. It's not deliverable, but then, that's true of several of their crazy policies - like nationalisation.
It could seduce enough Remoaners in the Lib Dems, and some Remoaners from the Tories, to nudge Labour up to 40-41. And then it is Hung Parliament, and TMay will resign.0 -
So are we all now seriously contemplating a hung parliament when ICM have the Tories with a 14 point lead?TheScreamingEagles said:
Not true, if the Lib Dems regained every seat they lost to the Tories in 2015 that would put the Tories on 304 seats, 22 short of a majority.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
Not quite; the LibDems could make big gains, with Labour on par. It looked a possibility when the campaign started; now, not so much.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
There might be a major Lib Dem revival. Then again, we might also all die in an asteroid strike before the election takes place at all.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not true, if the Lib Dems regained every seat they lost to the Tories in 2015 that would put the Tories on 304 seats, 21 short of a majority.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
Hypothesizing, to cover all eventualities.Jason said:
So are we all now seriously contemplating a hung parliament when ICM have the Tories with a 14 point lead?TheScreamingEagles said:
Not true, if the Lib Dems regained every seat they lost to the Tories in 2015 that would put the Tories on 304 seats, 22 short of a majority.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
He clearly knows where his extra votes have come from.SeanT said:Is Jeremy reading my comments?
He refuses to commit to leaving the EU. If Remoaners notice this, and switch....
https://twitter.com/Daily_Ref/status/8692144829706649610 -
The Tories have to lose only 15 seats. Even the DUP can't help them. You are slavishly following UNS. All the UKIP transfers to the Tories will not necessarily end in extra seats.Black_Rook said:
The only way that we end up with a Hung Parliament is if Labour makes an overall net gain of Parliamentary seats from the Conservatives. Please explain how on Earth this is meant to happen.SeanT said:
Calm down. There is almost no way the Labour party can get a majority. Even a plurality is extremely hard. The maths are so hostile.kyf_100 said:
Yes. For me this election is quite abstract - the difference between a Conservative and a Labour government for me will probably be 5% or so on income tax and a few perks being taken away, but I'm already (comparatively) well off and will continue to be. But at the age of 19, the sum of 30k sounded like all the world to me and if all I had to do to get rid of a 30k debt was show up once on one day, for five minutes, and put a tick in a box, hell yes I would have done it.kle4 said:
I believe that was ICMs take - either their approach post 2015 will be correct, or there has been a change in behaviour they are not adjusting for and things will be much closer than thought.kyf_100 said:
Could it have been the I agree with Nick voters - agreeing on phasing out tuition fees?kle4 said:
Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.kyf_100 said:
Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.Casino_Royale said:https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/869122806780448768
18-24 year olds.
A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
If the 18 - 24 year olds really do turn out in force for Labour this time round it will be a very interesting election.
And I really do think this policy appeals to parents, many of whom didn't pay fees or paid far, far less than the current rate and don't want to see junior saddled with mountains of debt.
The more I look at it the more this election feels very much like game on for Labour.
But they can certainly deprive TMay of HER majority. Which will feel like a massive victory for Corbyn.
What happens then??! Three days before Brexit negotiations begin, the country is in political chaos.
It's almost comical.0 -
Such Decisions weren't made by High Command, but personally by the Leader. Ultimately that was one of the key reasons they were defeated (refusing to retreat in Russia, and invading in the first place). Teamwork and delegation is always superior to centralising everything under one leader. Topical?kle4 said:
Really? Poor strategic decision by German high command there then.Alistair said:
The conventional view is that Luftwaffe accidentally bombed civilan parts of London, UK launched a single retaliatory raid to deliberately bombed Berlin, Germany responds with the Blitz. Which was really bloody lucky as UK air defence infrastructure was on its knees and one last push against British airfields and the UK would have been helpless. Instead Germany diverting all the bomb tonnage to civilian targets gave Air Command time to rest and regroup.rcs1000 said:
I haven't watched the interview, but it is fairly uncontroversial that the Luftwaffe started bombing British cities (as opposed to airfields) because they mistakenly thought the British were deliberately bombing German cities.Chris said:Evidently Diane Abbott has had one piece of luck during this campaign - being interviewed by Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, who made her appear positively well informed by comparison.
Few people with a rudimentary knowledge of World War II can have speculated that the Blitz was a response to RAF bombing of Germany ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1q45EqYn2g0 -
This is one time more than committing to keep our nuclear deterrent and 2 more times than admitting he supported the IRA.SeanT said:Is Jeremy reading my comments?
He refuses to commit to leaving the EU. If Remoaners notice this, and switch....
https://twitter.com/Daily_Ref/status/8692144829706649610 -
If we are offered something implausible, and are told it is and still vote for it (and it is indeed, as we were told, implausible) then we will get the government we deserve. And yes, that does apply to Brexit - it has already been more difficult than many thought, even those who acknowledged in the first place it wold be difficult.TMA1 said:
Labour hanging their policies on a skyhook in order to win an election? Its a thought. Where would that leave the intellectual calibre of the electorate?SeanT said:
Labour could seal TMay's fate with some clever maneuvering on Brexit in the final week.kyf_100 said:
I am in full on pants-wetting mode this weekend because I spent much if it in the pub with my Corbynista mates and the anticipation they feel is palpable.Norm said:
Only problem is that any taxpayer over 22 might pause and think I am the one paying for this largesse and vote Tory. For every promise on both sides there's always a countervailing view. For example ending free school dinners is unpopular among the relatively affluent young parents that will be affected but older taxpayers wonder why their taxes pay for something that wasn't free in their day.
They don't think they will win, but they sense that change is in the air. They feel as if they are in the ascendancy and it is only a matter of time.
They sense weakness. They sense blood. The right are no longer in control of the anti-establishment narrative.
To your point, I really don't think a 23 year old (27 year old? I imagine it is different the older you get) will be thinking "Well I got saddled with 30k debt so bugger the people two or three years younger than me, they can bloody well pay it too" - they are more likely to think how unfair it is and to vote in anger against the establishment that saddled them with the debt.
Come out and announce some insane plan to stay in EFTA, the Single Market, Customs union, but with immigration controls. It's not deliverable, but then, that's true of several of their crazy policies - like nationalisation.
It could seduce enough Remoaners in the Lib Dems, and some Remoaners from the Tories, to nudge Labour up to 40-41. And then it is Hung Parliament, and TMay will resign.0
This discussion has been closed.