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  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    Both Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean exiting the single market and the customs union.

    Joe Public knew that.

    That's what they're getting.
    Can the £350 million per week go to the NHS too?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Ishmael_Z said:

    matt said:

    Sky really trying to sell tonight as make or break for both leaders. Unsurprisingly hyperbolic about their own show ;)

    Sky - never knowingly under-promoted.
    Sophy Ridge is a class act, mind.
    Sophy has done really well but the rest are poor and lack balance, in particular Faisal Islam who is Juncker's chief assistant.

    Sky have been way over the top today promoting their debate but how many will watch it compared to the BBC question time debate next week
    I think more will watch next week Big G . It is on York .We should have the English Parliament here.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    surbiton said:

    Boris said we will be in the single market.

    He also said £350m a week for the NHS
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    Baxter gives this result a Con majority of 40.

    No popcorn or cigar, but certainly not pampers time.
    I don't think UNS will work this time. Labour are now likely to win seats in London. So are the Lib Dems.
    Seat. Not seats.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Nope.

    41% ish before the election was called
    46% ish after it was called
    44% ish now
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,535
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    Baxter gives this result a Con majority of 40.

    No popcorn or cigar, but certainly not pampers time.
    It's a 1 point Tory-Labour swing from a Hung Parliament. Incredible that it could be this close. If that happens she's gone.

    I'd like to see a poll taken since the IRA pounding, however.
    The higher the combined share for Con and Lab, the more likely that a small lead in votes gives a working majority.
    Tory minority administration trying to sort out Brexit?

    We really are off our heads at the moment.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    South Africa 101-3

    Three wickets for six runs.

    South Africa collapse?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Jesus wept. I've just caught the back end of Tezzie's Q&A. Every fecking answer was "Strong and Stable" "Coalition of Chaos".

    Paxman tonight will like that been a Tory.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,769
    Cyan said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    Both Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean exiting the single market and the customs union.

    Joe Public knew that.

    That's what they're getting.
    Can the £350 million per week go to the NHS too?

    My guess is that not one in 100 voters could tell you what the single market and customs union are, what they deliver to the UK and what they impose.

  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, you also wanted to leave. Only you wanted to wait 10 years for the EU to integrate more and *then* leave. Do you think things would've been easier then?

    Mr. JS, I've backed the blues for 350-374 seats at 7. If they get 375 it'll be like Monaco all over again.

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.

    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    You can't say you weren't warned.
    In the long-term, I think that's where Europe is heading anyway.

    At some point Sweden and Denmark will also have to decide whether to join the euro, or join us outside.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrea Leadsom vs Theresa May

    One has raised a children vs one who doesn't want them (she could have adopted)
    One voted leave vs one voted remain
    One has a personality vs one who doesn't
    One has worked in a proper job vs one who has always been a career politician.

    Theresa May cannot understand the stresses and strains of having children, doing chores and people who work in this country. Andrea Leadsom should have been elected leader against Theresa May.

    Theresa and Philip wanted children. It didn't happen for them, and I, for one, feel nothing but sympathy for them.

    I don't know Andrea but I do know a lot of people with a similar role which is fairly marginal in the scheme of things
    they could have adopted.

    Her career as a politician was more important. There are lots of men and women that don't enjoy sex and theresa may doesn't look like the kind of person who is up for it. And last time I checked if your not up for sex you can't get pregnant.
    You are coming across as not a very nice person.

    There was an interview in which it was quite clear it was something that she wanted and was still upset by.

    And lots of people don't adopt for all sorts of reasons.
    Some friends of mine adopted and now, I suspect, bitterly regret it, though they are doing their absolute best for the kid, of course. These stories don't always end happily.
    I looked adopting

    It can certainly work out well, and Fox jr has a close friend who was adopted and is a lovely young man, but it is not an easy road, either before or after arrival.

    I suspect TM would have mellowed with kids, as most of us do, but it has allowed her to sublimate those energies into a career like a number of other politicians. I don't like her for other reasons, but this is not something to hold against her. It was not her choice.
    These days, if you're a white couple, it's virtually impossible to adopt for the first time is large parts of the country.
    Adoption agencies do like to place children in culturally appropriate settings, and I think that reasonable, but the real problem is that the kids that are up for adoption are not newborn.

    If you want to adopt an older child with physical or mental handicaps, or something like foetal alcohol syndrome then you will go through the process very quickly. If only a healthy white baby will do, then you are in a very long queue.
  • PatrickPatrick Posts: 225
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    And the stuff on migration rights, non-EU spouses, etc, is explosive.

    I can't believe we need to say this again, but apparently we do.

    The EU position is that EU citizens should keep the rights that they (and we) currently have, and that UK citizens should be left with only the Brexit rights they voted for.

    This is what you voted for Sean. This is Brexit. It means having fewer rights as a citizen of the UK than as a citizen of the EU

    Maybe that should have been on the side of a bus...
    What a steaming pile of turd. The one right we will have that they won't is the right to elect a government with a different policy. If we simply walk then UK citizens will enjoy every right that they vote for.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Cyan said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    Both Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean exiting the single market and the customs union.

    Joe Public knew that.

    That's what they're getting.
    Can the £350 million per week go to the NHS too?

    My guess is that not one in 100 voters could tell you what the single market and customs union are, what they deliver to the UK and what they impose.

    I actually disagree with that.

    One of the things that struck me the most during the referendum is just how seriously most voters were taking it, and the personal research they'd done.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,283
    Does anyone else think that 1/9 is far too short for Caroline Lucas to hold Brighton Pavillion?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    I agree once the SNp gain independence politics can resume in Scotland.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What will the pollsters do if they overestimate Labour's share of the vote once again? Give up completely?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    And the stuff on migration rights, non-EU spouses, etc, is explosive.

    I can't believe we need to say this again, but apparently we do.

    The EU position is that EU citizens should keep the rights that they (and we) currently have, and that UK citizens should be left with only the Brexit rights they voted for.

    This is what you voted for Sean. This is Brexit. It means having fewer rights as a citizen of the UK than as a citizen of the EU

    Maybe that should have been on the side of a bus...
    What a steaming pile of turd. The one right we will have that they won't is the right to elect a government with a different policy. If we simply walk then UK citizens will enjoy every right that they vote for.
    The sound you are hearing is that of highly paid bankers in the city slitting their wrists !
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I will take that, plus the virality of C The Movie (about to go through the million views in 24 hours barrier), and laugh in the face of your so-called opinion polls; the Labour vote is as soft as a really, really soft thing which forgot to renew its viagra prescription. Tory maj >75 nailed on.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    What a steaming pile of turd.

    That's why I didn't vote for it...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    AndyJS said:

    What will the pollsters do if they overestimate Labour's share of the vote once again? Give up completely?

    What if ICM has fucked up big time ? Last time they were in the herd.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    And if it's anything like the latest ICM she'll win by a landslide.

    The opinion polls are one source of useful data, but they are just one of many and they are known to be unreliable, even when they are all in broad agreement. And this time around, they most certainly aren't.

    Other than that fraction - and it's no more than a fraction - of the opinion polls where the headline VI figures suggest that there could be a very small Conservative majority, all of the rest of the evidence suggests a comfortable win for Mrs May at the very least.

    The polls are educated guesses, in which a small and non-random sample of public opinion is subjected to a series of corrections, in an attempt to estimate what's actually going on in the country. If any one of those corrections is itself based on an inaccurate assumption, e.g. the turnout weightings by previous party affiliation are wrong, then the poll is rendered useless. Lest we forget, last time the polls were very good on the SNP and the bit part players, but they got the Lab/Con balance quite significantly wrong. Instead of a virtual tie, the Tories finished over a hundred seats ahead of Labour.

    In respect of the main horse race, the polls therefore possessed all the predictive value of a horoscope - and there's no reason to suppose that they'll do any better this time. Don't trust them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,535
    Norm said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
    Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".

    9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    She's very much on the Left of the Tory party, far more so than I'd like, but I would add my voice to those echoing the praises of Ruth Davidson as next Tory leader/PM.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    AndyJS said:

    What will the pollsters do if they overestimate Labour's share of the vote once again? Give up completely?

    whats your call o0n the result ?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I think he is been realistic even Thatcher said if the SNp get a majority of MPs in Scotland they can have a referendum.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,535
    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    What will the pollsters do if they overestimate Labour's share of the vote once again? Give up completely?

    What if ICM has fucked up big time ? Last time they were in the herd.
    Matt Singh:

    "As things stand, pollsters are as nervous as politicians."

    (FT article)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    But it directly contradicts what the Labour and SLAB manifestos both say. No to another referendum.

    Expect a hasty "clarification" soon. I reckon this rambling old Jezza going off piste.
    No clarification needs to be issued. SLAB manifesto is not worth the bytes it uses up. SLAB today is the SCON reserve team. They are pathetic. A bunch of losers.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Anyone care to predict what Paxman's first question to Corbyn will be tonight?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    Baxter gives this result a Con majority of 40.

    No popcorn or cigar, but certainly not pampers time.
    I don't think UNS will work this time. Labour are now likely to win seats in London. So are the Lib Dems.
    I think it's worth noting that, of the five seats in south-west London held by the Lib Dems before 2015, three are being contested by the Greens, and three are not being contested by UKIP.

    The overlap is the two seats in Sutton borough (one of which is still held by the Lib Dems), in both of which the Greens are standing and UKIP isn't.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Yorkcity said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I think he is been realistic even Thatcher said if the SNp get a majority of MPs in Scotland they can have a referendum.
    That, of course, was before they had one that the Scottish government agreed would settle the question for a generation...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,535
    Jason said:

    Anyone care to predict what Paxman's first question to Corbyn will be tonight?

    Is your wife measuring for the curtains yet?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    Would it also move 5% from SNP to SLAB?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Jason said:

    Anyone care to predict what Paxman's first question to Corbyn will be tonight?

    How are you ?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    What will the pollsters do if they overestimate Labour's share of the vote once again? Give up completely?

    What if ICM has fucked up big time ? Last time they were in the herd.
    Matt Singh:

    "As things stand, pollsters are as nervous as politicians."

    (FT article)
    That I do agree with. They all made methodical changes. Let's see who got it more correct.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    I'm just amazed that Lab could (though I do not think they will) get a higher vote share than Con managed in 2015. I know UKIP are hugely down and LDs are moribund, but still, my gods. Even as an outside possibility that's stunning.
    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    Maybe it helps in Glasgow and a few other places, and they think the cost elsewhere is worth it. Maybe.

    Certainly he's in such a stronger position in the party now, and likely after June 8th despite losing, that he can probably say whatever he wants without worrying what regional politicians think.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Patrick said:

    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    And the stuff on migration rights, non-EU spouses, etc, is explosive.

    The EU position is that EU citizens should keep the rights that they (and we) currently have, and that UK citizens should be left with only the Brexit rights they voted for.
    This is what you voted for Sean. This is Brexit. It means having fewer rights as a citizen of the UK than as a citizen of the EU Maybe that should have been on the side of a bus.../blockquote>

    What a steaming pile of turd. The one right we will have that they won't is the right to elect a government with a different policy. If we simply walk then UK citizens will enjoy every right that they vote for.
    No rights in EU countries, though. You may not want any yourself, Mr Patrick, but a lot of people do.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    She's very much on the Left of the Tory party, far more so than I'd like, but I would add my voice to those echoing the praises of Ruth Davidson as next Tory leader/PM.

    The only post in the Cabinet it would be worth taking her out of Holyrood for.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,535
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I will take that, plus the virality of C The Movie (about to go through the million views in 24 hours barrier), and laugh in the face of your so-called opinion polls; the Labour vote is as soft as a really, really soft thing which forgot to renew its viagra prescription. Tory maj >75 nailed on.
    I hope you're right. And I wish I could rejoice at the idea of TMay leading us into Brexit battle, supported by a cheering Tory majority. But I fear this election has revealed that she is mediocre, unimaginative, unbending and lacking in political judgement. She's gonna fuck it all up. Pfff.
    I'm hearing the odd friend and acquittance starting to talk about just spoiling their ballots - they are so pissed off with the choice before them.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    Both Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean exiting the single market and the customs union.

    Joe Public knew that.

    That's what they're getting.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-eu-referendum-single-market-brexit-a7104846.html
    Access doesn't mean membershop
    True. But membership guarantees access. Non-members have to hope the EU is in a generous mood. We'd best not say anything to upset them.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    BINGO! Jezza - the Movie 3m views, putting on the last million since 1645 yesterday i.e. in 23 hrs 15 mins.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    calum said:
    A single message does have flaws, particularly long term. But as a tactic it is simple and easily understandable, which is generally a good idea, and when you're riding at least a mini wave you can afford to do it.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited May 2017

    Norm said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
    Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".

    9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
    Why? A cap on care costs was pushed into the long grass in 2015.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,283
    calum said:
    Quite a good one though!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    And if it's anything like the latest ICM she'll win by a landslide.

    The opinion polls are one source of useful data, but they are just one of many and they are known to be unreliable, even when they are all in broad agreement. And this time around, they most certainly aren't.

    Other than that fraction - and it's no more than a fraction - of the opinion polls where the headline VI figures suggest that there could be a very small Conservative majority, all of the rest of the evidence suggests a comfortable win for Mrs May at the very least.

    The polls are educated guesses, in which a small and non-random sample of public opinion is subjected to a series of corrections, in an attempt to estimate what's actually going on in the country. If any one of those corrections is itself based on an inaccurate assumption, e.g. the turnout weightings by previous party affiliation are wrong, then the poll is rendered useless. Lest we forget, last time the polls were very good on the SNP and the bit part players, but they got the Lab/Con balance quite significantly wrong. Instead of a virtual tie, the Tories finished over a hundred seats ahead of Labour.

    In respect of the main horse race, the polls therefore possessed all the predictive value of a horoscope - and there's no reason to suppose that they'll do any better this time. Don't trust them.
    Brexit has affected this election, but in an unexpected way.

    Labour support has surged among Remain voters, while Conservative support has flatlined. People who are really angry about Brexit have rallied to Corbyn, presumably to punish the Tories.

    Conservative support, conversely, has surged among Leave voters, while Labour's support has only risen modestly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    calum said:

    SCON's only message !

    It's better than the SNP message.

    "Can't read or write due to our failing education policies? Get a job in IT..."

    @JohnMasonMSP: @redskykite @ScotlandsFuture I am suggesting that a high level of grammar is not required for a successful IT career.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017
    Jason said:

    Anyone care to predict what Paxman's first question to Corbyn will be tonight?

    "Have you been surprised at Labour's increase in the polls since the campaign started?"

    To catch him offguard by softballing the first one, then hitting him with harder stuff.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    Scott_P said:
    Good Politics from Corbyn.

    Most English voters want Scotland gone
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    matt said:

    Sky really trying to sell tonight as make or break for both leaders. Unsurprisingly hyperbolic about their own show ;)

    Sky - never knowingly under-promoted.
    Sophy Ridge is a class act, mind.
    Sophy has done really well but the rest are poor and lack balance, in particular Faisal Islam who is Juncker's chief assistant.

    Sky have been way over the top today promoting their debate but how many will watch it compared to the BBC question time debate next week
    I think more will watch next week Big G . It is on York .We should have the English Parliament here.
    Andrew Neil is the best informed questioner and able to comeback on the answers with more facts to support his initial question.

    For greater enlightenment rather than entertainment you can't beat Andrew Neil.

    Paxman doesn't do his homework and is out of touch.

    Audience questions are a waste of time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I will take that, plus the virality of C The Movie (about to go through the million views in 24 hours barrier), and laugh in the face of your so-called opinion polls; the Labour vote is as soft as a really, really soft thing which forgot to renew its viagra prescription. Tory maj >75 nailed on.
    I hope you're right. And I wish I could rejoice at the idea of TMay leading us into Brexit battle, supported by a cheering Tory majority. But I fear this election has revealed that she is mediocre, unimaginative, unbending and lacking in political judgement. She's gonna fuck it all up. Pfff.
    The risk for her is that isn't not really the social care policy that's collapsed the Tory lead, not directly, anyway, it's that she might have been "found out" as per your third sentence.

    I don't think that's entirely fair, but she has to ditch three habits pretty quickly: (1) surrounding herself with just her time-old ultra-loyalists, rather than appointing the best people/available talent for the job, who may disagree with her (2) taking her time to get familiar with all the detail herself prior to making any decisions (3) delegating those decisions to that same trusted clique when she doesn't, and not taking others into her confidence.

    In short: she needs to be far more open and flexible in her style, and know when to listen and when to be decisive.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Yorkcity said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    matt said:

    Sky really trying to sell tonight as make or break for both leaders. Unsurprisingly hyperbolic about their own show ;)

    Sky - never knowingly under-promoted.
    Sophy Ridge is a class act, mind.
    Sophy has done really well but the rest are poor and lack balance, in particular Faisal Islam who is Juncker's chief assistant.

    Sky have been way over the top today promoting their debate but how many will watch it compared to the BBC question time debate next week
    I think more will watch next week Big G . It is on York .We should have the English Parliament here.
    Andrew Neil is the best informed questioner and able to comeback on the answers with more facts to support his initial question.

    For greater enlightenment rather than entertainment you can't beat Andrew Neil.

    Paxman doesn't do his homework and is out of touch.

    Audience questions are a waste of time.
    https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/868911934690734081
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    But it directly contradicts what the Labour and SLAB manifestos both say. No to another referendum.

    Expect a hasty "clarification" soon. I reckon this rambling old Jezza going off piste.
    There's no point Labour competing with the SNP for the 45%, while leaving the 55% to the Tories.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    calum said:

    SCON's only message !

    It's better than the SNP message.

    "Can't read or write due to our failing education policies? Get a job in IT..."

    @JohnMasonMSP: @redskykite @ScotlandsFuture I am suggesting that a high level of grammar is not required for a successful IT career.

    IT being the industry which took the verb "to parse" out of Kennedy's Primer of Latin Grammar and into the big time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Norm said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
    Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".

    9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
    The social care proposal is dead. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,769
    Looking at Corbyn's full quote about the Scottish referendum he probably did not mean to say what he is reported as saying. But the fact that he gave the answer he did shows how crap he is at these things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    But it directly contradicts what the Labour and SLAB manifestos both say. No to another referendum.

    Expect a hasty "clarification" soon. I reckon this rambling old Jezza going off piste.
    Labour opposes a second Scottish independence referendum. It is unwanted and unnecessary, and we will campaign tirelessly to ensure Scotland remains part of the UK. Independence would lead to turbo-charged austerity for Scottish families

    For some reason he's able to get away with this stuff. He is, oddly, both a great communicator and a terrible communicator, as he definitely fires people up, inspires them, with the passion of what he believes in, while also going off the cuff and, most charitably, saying things very open to interpretation which undermine his purported position (the other explanation is he does it deliberately).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,769
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Ruth Davidson will be happy.
    That could shift 5 points from SLAB to SCON by itself. Corbyn is just mad.
    I will take that, plus the virality of C The Movie (about to go through the million views in 24 hours barrier), and laugh in the face of your so-called opinion polls; the Labour vote is as soft as a really, really soft thing which forgot to renew its viagra prescription. Tory maj >75 nailed on.
    I hope you're right. And I wish I could rejoice at the idea of TMay leading us into Brexit battle, supported by a cheering Tory majority. But I fear this election has revealed that she is mediocre, unimaginative, unbending and lacking in political judgement. She's gonna fuck it all up. Pfff.

    Yep - that is going to be the outcome, whatever the size of the Tory majority.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you havestuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    And if it's anything like the latest ICM she'll win by a landslide.

    The opinion polls are one source of useful data, but they are just one of many and they are known to be unreliable, even when they are all in broad agreement. And this time around, they most certainly aren't.

    Other than that fraction - and it's no more than a fraction - of the opinion polls where the headline VI figures suggest that there could be a very small Conservative majority, all of the rest of the evidence suggests a comfortable win for Mrs May at the very least.



    In respect of the main horse race, the polls therefore possessed all the predictive value of a horoscope - and there's no reason to suppose that they'll do any better this time. Don't trust them.
    Brexit has affected this election, but in an unexpected way.

    Labour support has surged among Remain voters, while Conservative support has flatlined. People who are really angry about Brexit have rallied to Corbyn, presumably to punish the Tories.

    Conservative support, conversely, has surged among Leave voters, while Labour's support has only risen modestly.
    Any idea what Rod Crosby is forecasting Mr F ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Borough, I've heard one or two similar things. I'm really not enthused by May. But the alternative is even worse.

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    In a really Tory part of a really Tory seat in SE. Just had a leaflet from Tories. First one I ever remember. Are they rattled?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    And the stuff on migration rights, non-EU spouses, etc, is explosive.

    I can't believe we need to say this again, but apparently we do.

    The EU position is that EU citizens should keep the rights that they (and we) currently have, and that UK citizens should be left with only the Brexit rights they voted for.

    This is what you voted for Sean. This is Brexit. It means having fewer rights as a citizen of the UK than as a citizen of the EU

    Maybe that should have been on the side of a bus...
    If that is their position then it is clear they don't want a deal
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Whether whoever coordinates Labour’s media appearances is a sleeper embedded by Tory high command, or genuinely thinks of Abbott as an asset, is as mysterious as why she has become such a liability. She may carry a cargo hold-full of troublesome baggage, but so do Corbyn and John McDonnell. Decades on the hard left, championing causes regarded as traitorous by the hard right, make that inevitable. Yet where Labour’s leader and shadow Chancellor have become fairly adept at dealing with questions about past affiliations, Abbott blunders into every trap, however clearly telegraphed, with puppyish zeal."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/diane-abbott-car-crash-interview-ira-terrorism-manchester-attack-trap-tories-liability-a7760471.html
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    She's gonna fuck it all up. Pfff.

    That much was obvious when she stood at a lectern and declared, without a hint of irony, that "Brexit means Brexit"

    And you lot cheered.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:

    hts://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/869208151228379137

    So in fact a very carefully worded statement promising nothing and saying little.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Charles said:

    If that is their position then it is clear they don't want a deal

    That is the reality of Brexit. We voted away UK citizens rights.

    The fact that Brexiteers haven't grasped that yet is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Jason said:

    Anyone care to predict what Paxman's first question to Corbyn will be tonight?

    That Diane Abbott, phwoar, eh?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,348

    In a really Tory part of a really Tory seat in SE. Just had a leaflet from Tories. First one I ever remember. Are they rattled?

    Just worried about complacency
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017

    Scott_P said:
    Good Politics from Corbyn.

    Most English voters want Scotland gone
    Link?

    I'm prepared to believe that, depressingly support for the Union is not as high as I would like in any of the Home Nations, but it's a bold statement to stand on its own.

    And if most English voters do want it, why do none of Lab/Con/LD have it as a policy? If it was really popular, there'd be a lot more clamouring for it (there has been from some, to be sure, particularly Lab).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Norm said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
    Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".

    9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
    Why had you arranged it around a cap of £100k when that wasn't the law?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,941

    Scott_P said:
    Good Politics from Corbyn.

    Most English voters want Scotland gone
    Do you have anything to back that up?
    I would imagine that if the question was phrased as 'Are you in favour of breaking up the United Kingdom?' the answer would be 'No'.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Good Politics from Corbyn.

    Most English voters want Scotland gone
    Link?

    I'm prepared to believe that, depressingly support for the Union is not as high as I would like in any of the Home Nations, but it's a bold statement to stand on its own.

    And if most English voters do want it, why do none of Lab/Con/LD have it as a policy? If it was really popular, there'd be a lot more clamouring for it (there has been from some, to be sure, particularly Lab).
    You mean like any of Con/Lab/LDs official policy was to leave the EU?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Is this replacing the 'Corbyn's name is poison' reports from the doorsteps?

    But he's blaming the wrong people. Who wrote these things doesn't matter - no PM would consent to anything they were not, at the time of approval, prepared to stand under. If they don't like it is May's fault.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Really?

    I didn't know that Conservative Party Headquarters was now doubling up as the UK counter-terrorism agency. Fascinating.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Corbynistas getting their excuses in early. https://twitter.com/labour_insider/status/869170638270988290
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Really?

    I didn't know that Conservative Party Headquarters was now doubling up as the UK counter-terrorism agency. Fascinating.
    GCHQ, CCHQ, who's counting?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Why didn't the FBI warn the security services?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    That sound you hear, is Kezia Dugdale and every Labour candidate in Scotland crying

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/869194789643800577

    Personally, after 5 weeks I have more respect for Corbyn's political judgement.

    This is directly after his visit to Glasgow. How about this: Ex-Labour voters in Glasgow wants to vote Labour but also want independence.

    This is exactly the opposite of what Nicola is saying: Vote for the SNP and we will support a Labour government.

    Kezia knows f*** all !
    But it directly contradicts what the Labour and SLAB manifestos both say. No to another referendum.

    Expect a hasty "clarification" soon. I reckon this rambling old Jezza going off piste.
    Labour opposes a second Scottish independence referendum. It is unwanted and unnecessary, and we will campaign tirelessly to ensure Scotland remains part of the UK. Independence would lead to turbo-charged austerity for Scottish families

    For some reason he's able to get away with this stuff. He is, oddly, both a great communicator and a terrible communicator, as he definitely fires people up, inspires them, with the passion of what he believes in, while also going off the cuff and, most charitably, saying things very open to interpretation which undermine his purported position (the other explanation is he does it deliberately).
    Like Trump
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:
    Oh, that's completely reasonable and a nothing statement. It's basically the same s May's "Now is not the time".

    Teach me for reading headlines and not the actual quote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Good Politics from Corbyn.

    Most English voters want Scotland gone
    Link?

    I'm prepared to believe that, depressingly support for the Union is not as high as I would like in any of the Home Nations, but it's a bold statement to stand on its own.

    And if most English voters do want it, why do none of Lab/Con/LD have it as a policy? If it was really popular, there'd be a lot more clamouring for it (there has been from some, to be sure, particularly Lab).
    You mean like any of Con/Lab/LDs official policy was to leave the EU?
    A lot of people in Con were clamouring for it to be official policy all the time. There were clearly a large body of support in Con, and sizable support in Lab (and LD for that matter, plenty of their voters supported Leave) for Brexit, and Con and Lab had MPs willing to push for it even though it was not official policy. Genuine question, are there plenty of Lab and Con MPs who support Scottish independence? If it were a widely supported issue in England, I would expect more MPs to be clear that is their position.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.

    A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Charles said:

    Norm said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Jason said:

    SeanT said:

    PClipp said:

    My view was we'd be in a better position to Leave if the EU moved in two distinct blocs, Eurozone and non Eurozone, with the Eurozone countries had full political union.
    Leaving like we are is fraught with disaster.

    Mr Eagles, it seems to me that, slowly, slowly, you are moving towards the Lib Dem position. Can this be?

    No. I'm a Democrat.

    Brexit must be respected and honoured.
    So, thanks Joe Public you have told us that by a small margin you'd like to Leave. The devil is in the detail and we'll see what we can come up with. When you see the result and tell us via opinion polls that you don't much like it - well I'm sorry you're stuck with it.
    If the election result is anything like that Survation poll, then TMay is going to be prime minister for about 3 minutes, in a Hung Parliament, or with a tiny majority.

    Who knows what that will do to Brexit. I genuinely dunno
    So who's correct - ICM or the others?
    I've no idea. At all. Brexit seems to have changed everything. This election is sui generis.
    I think it was dementia tax that changed everything. The Tories were on a rock solid high 40s until their manifesto came out. Taking their core vote for granted.
    Although some damage has been done I'd suggest a very public kick it into the long grass style u turn is re-announced given no-one seems to know what the current position is. One persons wobbliness is another persons flexibility and the issue needs to be buried for the time being.
    Thanks to May I know what the current position is. And I'm going to have to take steps now, as I had arranged things around there being a cap of around £100K per person. She is lying about there being a cap - we have been promised a mealy-mouth "consultation".

    9 days since manifesto-f*** day, I am still seething.
    Why had you arranged it around a cap of £100k when that wasn't the law?
    The Cameron government were introducing a £72,000 cap in 2020.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Really?

    I didn't know that Conservative Party Headquarters was now doubling up as the UK counter-terrorism agency. Fascinating.
    Same thing if you listen to Cyan. And I've been told that I should question my assumptions as a young(ish) person for dismissing that idea.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Surely they warned the British Intelligence services .I suppose the Home secretary an say she was not informed. .However there will have to be an enquiry into the failure to act if true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    kyf_100 said:

    Who've just been given a massive bung from Labour in the form of tuition fees being scrapped.

    A policy I dare say appeals to overstretched parents, too.
    Big jump in 2010 for 18-24 for some reason. If they can get it back to there, plenty of saved seats for Lab. They are loving the promise of freebies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,144

    Jan 17: FBI warned the Tories that Salman Abedi was planing a UK terror attack.

    Didn't they warn he was planning an assassination, and that they looked into it and came up with nothing?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,769
    surbiton said:
    More to the point, if Corbyn is the PM after the general election (bear with me here!!) then a central plank of the SNP case for independence - that Scotland and England are irrevocably divided left and right politically - would have been completely blown out of the water.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:
    They should relax- do they think there won't be someone there 'passionate' about social care?
This discussion has been closed.