politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: Explaining the Labour ‘surge’
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I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?0 -
The British public, rightly, are interested in results. If multiple warnings were given about this individual in advance, they will reasonably want to understand what has gone wrong.0
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It was very good advice - a very sensible thing to do.SimonStClare said:0 -
Great job with the bat from Moeen Ali. England with 100 from the last ten overs to finish 339/6.0
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Good to see a British Muslim smashing the ball all over the shop for England at Headingley. SA will fancy chasing 340 on this belter. Game on.0
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Which leaves a campaign truncated to 9 days.MikeL said:
But May will get her share of news coverage in Sicily anyway.Scott_P said:
TV news is also much more limited over weekend + Mon is a Bank Holiday (+ lots of people will be away) so in reality most people aren't going to be exposed to any significant GE campaigning until next Tuesday.0 -
And there is me thinking you a lawyer...AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:0 -
oh FFS
Burnham playing moral equivalence between people who blow their neighbours up and shouty EDL types.
numpty0 -
And looking very casually at the graph at the head of this article, it is striking that you could add up the Con UKIP and come to a very stable line - that has often been remarked on. BUT, you could do the same with Lab and LD - it looks as if those who have drifted from Lab to LD since the GE have mainly moved back to Lab.
Much ado about nothing ?0 -
England set SA 6.4 an over0
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I am. Which means that my definition of modest might differ from yours.foxinsoxuk said:
And there is me thinking you a lawyer...AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
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No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?0 -
You think Lab+LD adds up to a horizontal line? Amazing.View_From_Cumbria said:And looking very casually at the graph at the head of this article, it is striking that you could add up the Con UKIP and come to a very stable line - that has often been remarked on. BUT, you could do the same with Lab and LD - it looks as if those who have drifted from Lab to LD since the GE have mainly moved back to Lab.
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Even so, can’t you get disbarred for just using the term ‘modest fee’ …?AlastairMeeks said:
I am. Which means that my definition of modest might differ from yours.foxinsoxuk said:
And there is me thinking you a lawyer...AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
Looks as though No.10 reads PB and has taken Mr Meeks advice…!CarlottaVance said:ttps://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/867414930496081920
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It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.0 -
This is from ITV News's highly respected Middle East news editor.
Paul Waugh added,
Lutfi Abu Aun @lutfiabuaun
Replying to @lutfiabuaun
the father of #Manchester suicide bomber was doing TV intv when two cars full of gunmen took him from his house in #Tripoli . eyewitness
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But it is entirely fait for people to question intelligence failings. Suspect this will be the subject of a detailed investigation by the intelligence and security committee.TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.0 -
Surely it's only modest in the Swiftian sense.SimonStClare said:
Even so, can’t you get disbarred for just using the term ‘modest fee’ …?AlastairMeeks said:
I am. Which means that my definition of modest might differ from yours.foxinsoxuk said:
And there is me thinking you a lawyer...AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
Looks as though No.10 reads PB and has taken Mr Meeks advice…!CarlottaVance said:ttps://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/867414930496081920
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Obviously I'm talking about the objective of terrorist attacks in the West, not conventional warfare in the Middle East.MTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?0 -
Thank you very much for that tip the other about Postman's Park, by the way, Alastair. I work nearby, so took a stroll over there with my lunch. Very pleasant in the sunshine and I had never registered that it was there.AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
In similar but tinier vein, I don't know if you've ever come across the Basil Hume Quiet Garden, off Lamb's Passage round the back of Slaughter & May. To call it a garden at all is a stretch because it is literally the size of someone's front room. Literally. Last time I looked there was one seat, so if you got there with your lunch first, it was basically your own space. It's been a while since I checked it out so it could have become a wino hangout or fallen into desuetude - GOK whose job it is to maintain it.0 -
same with the IRAMTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?
they killed more Irish than the brits ever did0 -
That's very close to where I live (and I used to work in the next building) so I know it well.Alice_Aforethought said:
Thank you very much for that tip the other about Postman's Park, by the way, Alastair. I work nearby, so took a stroll over there with my lunch. Very pleasant in the sunshine and I had never registered that it was there.AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
In similar but tinier vein, I don't know if you've ever come across the Basil Hume Quiet Garden, off Lamb's Passage round the back of Slaughter & May. To call it a garden at all is a stretch because it is literally the size of someone's front room. Literally. Last time I looked there was one seat, so if you got there with your lunch first, it was basically your own space. It's been a while since I checked it out so it could have become a wino hangout or fallen into desuetude - GOK whose job it is to maintain it.
The City and its surrounds have many little surprises if you go looking for them.0 -
And I am not talking about conventional warfare in the ME. I am talking about whom the terrorist organizations such as ISIS and Al Qaeeda and Haqqani Network kill, the guys you are claiming want to unite Muslims in hatred of infidel.Chris said:
Obviously I'm talking about the objective of terrorist attacks in the West, not conventional warfare in the Middle East.MTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?0 -
Last week, received wisdom here was that most non-politics geeks wouldn't pay much attention until after the bank holiday anyway...MikeL said:
But May will get her share of news coverage in Sicily anyway.Scott_P said:
TV news is also much more limited over weekend + Mon is a Bank Holiday (+ lots of people will be away) so in reality most people aren't going to be exposed to any significant GE campaigning until next Tuesday.0 -
On the subject of medical fees can I cite Henry King by Hilaire Belloc:AlastairMeeks said:
I am. Which means that my definition of modest might differ from yours.foxinsoxuk said:
And there is me thinking you a lawyer...AlastairMeeks said:
My fee is very modest.SimonStClare said:
"Physicians of the Utmost Fame
Were called at once; but when they came
They answered, as they took their Fees,
``There is no Cure for this Disease.""0 -
Burnham is an appeaser par excellence. Nobody should be surprised.Alanbrooke said:oh FFS
Burnham playing moral equivalence between people who blow their neighbours up and shouty EDL types.
numpty0 -
You're saying terrorist attacks in the West by Islamist extremists have killed more Muslims than Christians?MTimT said:
And I am not talking about conventional warfare in the ME. I am talking about whom the terrorist organizations such as ISIS and Al Qaeeda and Haqqani Network kill, the guys you are claiming want to unite Muslims in hatred of infidel.Chris said:
Obviously I'm talking about the objective of terrorist attacks in the West, not conventional warfare in the Middle East.MTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?
I never fail to be amazed by the rubbish people talk on the Internet.0 -
Good evening, everyone.
F1: reiterating an earlier bet, I've backed No Safety Car at 6.5, Ladbrokes. There was only one last year due to weather (rain at the start) and four VSC periods.
I've also, with a tiny sum, backed Perez at 126 for the win and 11 for a podium, on the basis he's very good at this sort of circuit, and his car is the most reliable in the field.
In other news: I was wondering if other PBers who are interested in particular non-politics fields would be interested in guest (or regular) posts over at the enormo-haddock blog where I put up my F1 rambles.
Could be on sporting matters, TV, that sort of thing. Also entirely happy if anyone wanted to write additional F1 articles (I'll still be doing mine).
Anyway, if you're interested, just give me a bell over Vanilla and we'll work something out.0 -
Bank Holiday coming up. Beautiful sunshine.
I have a feeling that the electorate are going to switch off until well into next week.0 -
Really, more Irish were killed by the IRA than in potato famines?Alanbrooke said:same with the IRA
they killed more Irish than the brits ever did
Are you sure you're Irish? Or has Morris Dancer been tutoring you on history?0 -
That mostly reflects the rather poor training of many local Sherrifs departments, and gunhappy nature of American society.Alice_Aforethought said:
True, but if all police were armed they'd almost certainly kill more innocent people every year by mistake than terrorists currently set out to do on purpose.Andrew said:It's a major weakness of a mostly unarmed police force: we have only a few thousand armed specialists nationally, so those get used up pretty quickly in a situation like this.
I have always suspected that the word 'homicide' exists - or at least came into wide use -
because it's neutral as to the intent and criminality behind a killing, and in America, so many homicides are done by the police.
European cops are routinely armed and not constantly bumping people off. Indeed the on the spot nature of armed police was useful in a couple of recent incidents.
Time police were routinely armed in my eyes, certainly the reponse teams.0 -
I am not saying that, and you are willfully distorting my words. You have claimed a strategic intent for certain terrorist organizations that is simply not supported by the totality of the facts. Your response when the broader picture is pointed out to you is to ignore the facts that undermine your case and insult the person with the broader picture.Chris said:
You're saying terrorist attacks in the West by Islamist extremists have killed more Muslims than Christians?MTimT said:
And I am not talking about conventional warfare in the ME. I am talking about whom the terrorist organizations such as ISIS and Al Qaeeda and Haqqani Network kill, the guys you are claiming want to unite Muslims in hatred of infidel.Chris said:
Obviously I'm talking about the objective of terrorist attacks in the West, not conventional warfare in the Middle East.MTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.Cyclefree said:Part 2
It must hugely pain decent Muslims that their religion is so often associated with violence. But, painful as it may be to hear this, there has not been a sufficient or a sufficiently strong firewall between peaceful non-aggressive Islam and the sort of Islam, apparently based on the Koran and the life of Mohammed and his early warriors (see the recent Tom Holland documentary on ISIS) which appears to animate the radicals. Some hard questions need to be asked by and of Muslims themselves about why this is so and what needs to be done to build a much more effective firewall. Saying that these terrorists don’t represent true Islam feels like saying what people would like to be true not what appears to be true, for some anyway. Something much more effective needs doing to strengthen the Muslim body against the virus which is harming it. And others, as we see all too often. Sadly.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?
I never fail to be amazed by the rubbish people talk on the Internet.
Enjoy your little world. I'll happily leave you there.0 -
They can do that now with cash or favours to a political party. Via my scheme they'd have to show they had ponied up a huge amount of honest tax. Corporation tax paid by your Liechtenstein SPV wouldn't do it. It would need to be P60 evidenced income tax deducted.Omnium said:
Evening!AnneJGP said:
I really like this idea. Kudos.Alice_Aforethought said:
Personally I think the tax and honours systems should be combined so that you automatically get a gong if you have paid £1 million, £5 million, £10 million etc in income tax and NI. At some point you would automatically sit in the Lords, reformed into the House of Taxpayers. In effect the top 300 or so income tax payers in the land would form the upper house. These people would then scrutinise legislation for value for money, on account of it's mostly going to be their money.Nemtynakht said:I'd love for one of the Corbyn loving celebs who to put their hand in their pocket and send a cheque to HMRC every month for the increase in taxes they think should be paid to improve society. Rather than being a part of the tax dodge by setting up a company etc, demonstrate all taxes are paid, and then even more mailed to the tax office. That would be something I could get behind.
The only person I have ever heard express gratitude to the higher rate taxpayers who basically fund everything is John McDonnell, bizarrely.
It would also silence rich tax-dodging hypocrites for good. If Jimmy Carr started to bang on about rich people dodging tax, he could be asked why he hasn't raised the matter in the HoTP. What's that Jimmy? You've not paid enough income tax to qualify for entry?
Good evening, everyone.
Yes I did too at first brush then thought about it a bit. It'd mean that anyone could buy their way to a seat in the Lords.
Alice_Aforethought though is certainly to be congratulated on her (I presume) post.
I just think that if you're going to reform the Lords, reform it on some basis. Class warfare or party political advantage don't cut it. There are plenty of rich men who support Lab, Con, LD alike. But if they're rich because they've managed to dodge paying tax, rather than paid a lot of tax because they're rich, I don't need to hear from them.0 -
This young man died in Monday's terrorist attack... he was a Corrie super fan who compiled this very funny video. RIP
https://twitter.com/martynhett/status/8435912640251699200 -
Mr. Eagles, I don't comment much on modern history (well, only the Angevins).0
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For the goulish 'kampung melayu bom' on twitter has a choice selection of body parts......Muslims killing Muslims......0
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You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.
Why not?0 -
Wonder if The Sun will run a headline that
May might not have planted the bombs but..........0 -
Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.0
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To repeat, terrorist attacks in the West is what I'm talking about!MTimT said:
I am not saying that, and you are willfully distorting my words. You have claimed a strategic intent for certain terrorist organizations that is simply not supported by the totality of the facts. Your response when the broader picture is pointed out to you is to ignore the facts that undermine your case and insult the person with the broader picture.Chris said:
You're saying terrorist attacks in the West by Islamist extremists have killed more Muslims than Christians?MTimT said:
And I am not talking about conventional warfare in the ME. I am talking about whom the terrorist organizations such as ISIS and Al Qaeeda and Haqqani Network kill, the guys you are claiming want to unite Muslims in hatred of infidel.Chris said:
Obviously I'm talking about the objective of terrorist attacks in the West, not conventional warfare in the Middle East.MTimT said:
No. If it were, they would have murdered more Christians and Jews than Muslims. As it is, they murder far more Muslims that the rest combined.Chris said:
I'm sure any reaction tending to portray Muslims in general as "them" and the rest of the human race as "us" really gladdens the hearts of the extremists.
Of course they know they are not going to achieve anything directly by murdering a few dozen people. Or even a few hundred, or a few thousand. Their objective is to provoke hatred of Muslims in general. They think that if they can achieve that kind of hatred, more people will support them in reaction to it.
Isn't it obvious that's what they are trying to do?
I never fail to be amazed by the rubbish people talk on the Internet.
Enjoy your little world. I'll happily leave you there.
Obviously not directed primarily against Muslims. Blindingly obviously intended to provoke a reaction.
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I see the merits, and I see your arguments. However you too see the issues. Osama Bin Laden could potentially have bought his way into the House of Lords if your scheme had been in place in the past. If he'd done it pre-2001 then that may have been just awkward. Post 2001 then we'd be in a very awkward place vis-a-vis did we just declare war on the US.Alice_Aforethought said:
They can do that now with cash or favours to a political party. Via my scheme they'd have to show they had ponied up a huge amount of honest tax. Corporation tax paid by your Liechtenstein SPV wouldn't do it. It would need to be P60 evidenced income tax deducted.Omnium said:
Evening!
Yes I did too at first brush then thought about it a bit. It'd mean that anyone could buy their way to a seat in the Lords.
Alice_Aforethought though is certainly to be congratulated on her (I presume) post.
I just think that if you're going to reform the Lords, reform it on some basis. Class warfare or party political advantage don't cut it. There are plenty of rich men who support Lab, Con, LD alike. But if they're rich because they've managed to dodge paying tax, rather than paid a lot of tax because they're rich, I don't need to hear from them.
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@bigjohnowls It would be entirely fair game for the Daily Mirror to run the sort of headline you suggest "May knew". I doubt it would have much traction mind.0
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May was due to do her one on one interview on ITV tomorrow night - but all the major debate and interviews stay in tact with Corbyn v May on Channel 4 and Sky on Monday nightMikeL said:
But May will get her share of news coverage in Sicily anyway.Scott_P said:
TV news is also much more limited over weekend + Mon is a Bank Holiday (+ lots of people will be away) so in reality most people aren't going to be exposed to any significant GE campaigning until next Tuesday.0 -
TwatTheScreamingEagles said:
Really, more Irish were killed by the IRA than in potato famines?Alanbrooke said:same with the IRA
they killed more Irish than the brits ever did
Are you sure you're Irish? Or has Morris Dancer been tutoring you on history?0 -
Armed police at Chelmsford station tonight.
Police also at Colchester station but no guns on show.0 -
But many police officers don't want to be armed. They believe in policing by consent. Routinely arming them would bring a very different group into the Force.foxinsoxuk said:
That mostly reflects the rather poor training of many local Sherrifs departments, and gunhappy nature of American society.Alice_Aforethought said:
True, but if all police were armed they'd almost certainly kill more innocent people every year by mistake than terrorists currently set out to do on purpose.Andrew said:It's a major weakness of a mostly unarmed police force: we have only a few thousand armed specialists nationally, so those get used up pretty quickly in a situation like this.
I have always suspected that the word 'homicide' exists - or at least came into wide use -
because it's neutral as to the intent and criminality behind a killing, and in America, so many homicides are done by the police.
European cops are routinely armed and not constantly bumping people off. Indeed the on the spot nature of armed police was useful in a couple of recent incidents.
Time police were routinely armed in my eyes, certainly the reponse teams.0 -
Not sure if I'm missing something obvious, but ISTM that by the nature of these attacks, every one that is successful has 'slipped through the net' by definition.bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.
Why not?
Ideally none should, but inevitably some will. So we learn from each one & hope that the mesh of the net becomes narrower each time.0 -
Ah, the not so subtle use of the word "mistake" showing that you understand absolutely zilch about the process of intelligence analysis...bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.
Why not?0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret0 -
Oh and May presided over record levels of immigrationbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret0 -
What would you call it a catastrophic fook up ....... ON MAYS WATCH?Rexel56 said:
Ah, the not so subtle use of the word "mistake" showing that you understand absolutely zilch about the process of intelligence analysis...bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.
Why not?0 -
Mr. Owls, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGj1PheWiFQ
As for immigration, I agree.
Spending had to be cut to try and cope with a horrendous deficit. I do think all parties have been horrendous on Defence.
I'm not a fan of May. I think she's an authoritarian meddler.
But Corbyn's stance on terrorism, on the IRA, is a matter of record. And it is not a good one.0 -
Evening, Mr.D.Morris_Dancer said:Good evening, everyone.
F1: reiterating an earlier bet, I've backed No Safety Car at 6.5, Ladbrokes. There was only one last year due to weather (rain at the start) and four VSC periods.
I've also, with a tiny sum, backed Perez at 126 for the win and 11 for a podium, on the basis he's very good at this sort of circuit, and his car is the most reliable in the field.
In other news: I was wondering if other PBers who are interested in particular non-politics fields would be interested in guest (or regular) posts over at the enormo-haddock blog where I put up my F1 rambles.
Could be on sporting matters, TV, that sort of thing. Also entirely happy if anyone wanted to write additional F1 articles (I'll still be doing mine).
Anyway, if you're interested, just give me a bell over Vanilla and we'll work something out.
Not totally daft - apparently a single set of tyres should last the entire race, so if someone (say Perez) gets very lucky with a very early safety car, he might be impossible to pass.
And I guess it provides some sort of tiny hedge for your no safety car ridiculousness...
;-)0 -
The apologistas have suddenly become emboldened.bigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret0 -
Has Diane Abbott actually said ANYTHING yet ?
She's the Shadow Home secretary in case everyone had forgot.0 -
I recently read an article online from 2016 about the Danish police being unable to cope and wanting to call in the army. Funny that ... two countries are NATO members and have been involved in fighting foreign wars 'against terror'. Now, both countries feel less secure.foxinsoxuk said:
That mostly reflects the rather poor training of many local Sherrifs departments, and gunhappy nature of American society.Alice_Aforethought said:
True, but if all police were armed they'd almost certainly kill more innocent people every year by mistake than terrorists currently set out to do on purpose.Andrew said:It's a major weakness of a mostly unarmed police force: we have only a few thousand armed specialists nationally, so those get used up pretty quickly in a situation like this.
I have always suspected that the word 'homicide' exists - or at least came into wide use -
because it's neutral as to the intent and criminality behind a killing, and in America, so many homicides are done by the police.
European cops are routinely armed and not constantly bumping people off. Indeed the on the spot nature of armed police was useful in a couple of recent incidents.
Time police were routinely armed in my eyes, certainly the reponse teams.
Accordingly to Wikipedia, no non-aligned countries have suffered from any 'terrorist' attacks in decades except for one attack in Sweden. In that one, the perpetrator died. No civilians dead at all.
In the UK it's now a total of about 75 dead this century, mostly civilians. The UK population is about 1.5x that of the five non-aligned states. Do the sums.0 -
Well you learn something every day not a great use of words is it!!!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGj1PheWiFQ
As for immigration, I agree.
Spending had to be cut to try and cope with a horrendous deficit. I do think all parties have been horrendous on Defence.
I'm not a fan of May. I think she's an authoritarian meddler.
But Corbyn's stance on terrorism, on the IRA, is a matter of record. And it is not a good one.0 -
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference0 -
My, the father and brother of the suicide bomber arrested for plotting terror attacks in Libya.
Nice family with nice friends
So, when and where were they radicalised.
I see big john is getting excited - so John, what do we do with all the people who are flagged as problems with extremist views?
Shall we remove their freedoms?
Shall we retain open door immigration or shut the borders?
If a jihadi was going down the street shooting people - your dream boy Jezza can't say he would order him slotted. Why on earth would we vote for that and his choice of home secretary with her known views?
Oh dear ex extremist (Adam something of quillian foundation) on sky pointing out it really is tenets of their faith that drive extremists - not exactly on message is he.
0 -
Yeah, and I don't recall Thatcher inviting Gerry Adams over for tea and biscuits a week after the Brighton bombing either.Alanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference0 -
Corbyn has, historically, seemed to have views that would be quite harmful to our nation's security. If he's changed his mind he should say so, and he should disavow his statements and actions of the past. It's a very different thing when the government communicates with some bad people for the sake of lives than when some renegade politician does.bigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret0 -
The Tories let the parents in when they were fleeing Gaddafi, Corbyn would let everyone inbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret0 -
Anyone that thinks Corbyn will come out well of any comparison on terrorism or the company he keeps and calls friends should stay out of the sun.
Bearing in mind the vilification of Farron, this could prove troublesome for Corbyn among the right-on student brigade:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/08/27/jeremy-corbyn-very-good-friends-with-preacher-who-compared-gays-to-paedophiles/0 -
I'm no fan of May by any means and yes the Tories talk a good game on security & immigration but fail to deliver, but she is up against Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. That's all that needs to be said.bigjohnowls said:
What would you call it a catastrophic fook up ....... ON MAYS WATCH?Rexel56 said:
Ah, the not so subtle use of the word "mistake" showing that you understand absolutely zilch about the process of intelligence analysis...bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
I dunno, we're armchair critics, but if he was reported twice to the police by independent Muslim sources AND flew an ISIS flag AND had his passport confiscated by his parents AND argued with the preacher about ISIS AND spoke up for suicide bombing to his friends AND marched down the street shouting passages from the Koran AND recently visited Libya, it seems there's a prima facie case that they should have taken a closer look. I'm all for freedom of opinion and any one of these things might be shrugged off, but all of them together? Aren't the security services supposed to be really good at using computing power to link different bits of information?Peter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Among other things, what's the good of our demanding that Muslims report extremists to the fuzz if the fuzz then (apparently) say yeah, whatever and do nothing about it?
And no, this isn't a political point. I accept that the decision won't have been made by a politician of any kind. But it would be appropriate for politicians to call for a review of whether these reports are correct and why nothing was done, so that we can learn from experience.
Why not?0 -
Ooh la la la, it's the natural la that the refugees bring
https://twitter.com/foxnews/status/8674237839588392970 -
Correct. It's a source of immense pride that so few British police are routinely armed. Very few places are the same, and it has a positive effect on the relationship between the police and the people.dixiedean said:
But many police officers don't want to be armed. They believe in policing by consent. Routinely arming them would bring a very different group into the Force.foxinsoxuk said:
That mostly reflects the rather poor training of many local Sherrifs departments, and gunhappy nature of American society.Alice_Aforethought said:
True, but if all police were armed they'd almost certainly kill more innocent people every year by mistake than terrorists currently set out to do on purpose.Andrew said:It's a major weakness of a mostly unarmed police force: we have only a few thousand armed specialists nationally, so those get used up pretty quickly in a situation like this.
I have always suspected that the word 'homicide' exists - or at least came into wide use -
because it's neutral as to the intent and criminality behind a killing, and in America, so many homicides are done by the police.
European cops are routinely armed and not constantly bumping people off. Indeed the on the spot nature of armed police was useful in a couple of recent incidents.
Time police were routinely armed in my eyes, certainly the reponse teams.0 -
On 7 April 2017, in central Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, a hijacked truck was deliberately driven into crowds along Drottninggatan (Queen Street) before being crashed through a corner of an Åhléns department store. Five people were killed and around 15 others were injured.rural_voter said:Accordingly to Wikipedia, no non-aligned countries have suffered from any 'terrorist' attacks in decades except for one attack in Sweden. In that one, the perpetrator died. No civilians dead at all.
Police considered the attack an act of terrorism. Rakhmat Akilov, a 39-year-old rejected asylum seeker from Uzbekistan, was apprehended the same day, suspected on probable cause of terrorist crimes through murder (a Swedish legal term). Swedish police said he has sympathized with the Islamic State (ISIS), and Uzbek authorities said he had joined ISIS before the attack. Akilov admitted carrying out the attack at a pre-trial hearing on 11 April..0 -
US Intelligence service still leaking like a sieve:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?_r=00 -
Mr. Owls, indeed not.
Mr. Voter, and today's attack in the Philippines? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40024120
Mr. Pulpstar, be fair. Her to-do list has 300 million things on it.
Mr. B, hey, it's twice as likely as Verstappen winning the 2016 Spanish Grand Prix.0 -
Another one to add to the seemingly endless back catalogue of disgrace.chestnut said:Anyone that thinks Corbyn will come out well of any comparison on terrorism or the company he keeps and calls friends should stay out of the sun.
Bearing in mind the vilification of Farron, this could prove troublesome for Corbyn among the right-on student brigade:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/08/27/jeremy-corbyn-very-good-friends-with-preacher-who-compared-gays-to-paedophiles/0 -
Betfair betting odds error
Bradford South
Lab 3/10
Con 9/4
Huddersfield
Lab 1/2
Con 6/4
The Conservatives are way more likely to gain Bradford South than Huddersfield.
0 -
It's not really muddle-headed at all (though I'll grant you that "mostly" is doing quite a bit of work there).Cyclefree said:
I posted this on an earlier thread. Relevant in response to yours I think. In 2 parts because of length constraints.SeanT said:
@IanB2 from 23/5 said this:-
"Spend time with today's Muslim schoolkids, as I have, and you'll find they are mostly very aware of the challenge their generation faces of reconciling the 'modern' western ideals they assimilate at school with the more 'traditional' values imported by their parents. As with other waves of immigrants our country has assimilated over the generations, the problem is not with the generality but with the particular socio-economic and geo-political reasons that allow radical islamism to appeal to a small minority of the disaffected."
An example of the muddle-headed thinking which so bedevils our efforts to prevent radicalisation. The parents of these youngsters, even the grandparents, are often British citizens born and brought up in this country so the questions to be asked are why it is that they are “importing” “traditional” values, what exactly what those values are and whether they are compatible with Western values.
The larger point is whether communities with a strong credal culture can happily co-exist in a secular society and democracy. See this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/29/angels-and-fools-cyclefree-on-trumps-latest-executive-order/.
When that credal culture is one a significant part of which seems both aggressive and brittle, when there have been for the last 40 years at least, particularly so in the last decade, winds of an aggressive intolerant fundamentalism blowing through it, when there has been a culture of multiculturalism which has refused to contemplate the possibility that not all cultures may be equally worthwhile and has impeded the sort of integration necessary, when the countries where that credal culture originated and is predominant have largely been economic, social and political failures, it is not entirely surprising that radical islamism appeals to some. But the reasons are not just socio-economic or geo-political. Culture and religion also matter. Just because they don’t matter to us doesn’t mean that they don’t matter – a great deal – to others.
Have you been in a classroom with a number of Moslem kids ?0 -
The guy was reported twice flew ISIS flags told everybody he knew he thought suicide bombers were right was flying off to Libyan training campsFloater said:My, the father and brother of the suicide bomber arrested for plotting terror attacks in Libya.
Nice family with nice friends
So, when and where were they radicalised.
I see big john is getting excited - so John, what do we do with all the people who are flagged as problems with extremist views?
Shall we remove their freedoms?
Shall we retain open door immigration or shut the borders?
Oh dear ex extremist (Adam something of quillian foundation) on sky pointing out it really is tenets of their faith that drive extremists - not exactly on message is he.
Shall we remove their freedoms?
I would have thought stopping them visiting Libya in the circumstances would have been sensible
I guess had we not completely destabilised Libya that might not have been necessary
Shall we retain open door immigration or shut the borders?
May does the former at record levels whilst pretending to want to bring it down0 -
US intel needs to stop leaking like a bloody sieve.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thanks for the tip, Mr. Richard.
Edited extra bit: Anyway, I must be off. Damned muggy weather.0 -
This is unprecedented leaking from the Septics to their own press, what on Earth is happening behind the scenes here?CarlottaVance said:US Intelligence service still leaking like a sieve:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?_r=00 -
So we now know that the bomb was made with forethought? That's cracked the case wide open.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Well I was relying on WikipediaChelyabinsk said:
On 7 April 2017, in central Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, a hijacked truck was deliberately driven into crowds along Drottninggatan (Queen Street) before being crashed through a corner of an Åhléns department store. Five people were killed and around 15 others were injured.rural_voter said:Accordingly to Wikipedia, no non-aligned countries have suffered from any 'terrorist' attacks in decades except for one attack in Sweden. In that one, the perpetrator died. No civilians dead at all.
Police considered the attack an act of terrorism. Rakhmat Akilov, a 39-year-old rejected asylum seeker from Uzbekistan, was apprehended the same day, suspected on probable cause of terrorist crimes through murder (a Swedish legal term). Swedish police said he has sympathized with the Islamic State (ISIS), and Uzbek authorities said he had joined ISIS before the attack. Akilov admitted carrying out the attack at a pre-trial hearing on 11 April..
Sorry.0 -
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.
0 -
Where's TSE's handy 'years since majority' bar chart when you need it?bigjohnowls said:
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.0 -
Yet voted against the Peace Agreement in Northern Ireland. Bizarre.bigjohnowls said:
Who has fought for peace all his life.
0 -
He's lost the plot, much like the leader he venerates.chestnut said:
Yet voted against the Peace Agreement in Northern Ireland. Bizarre.bigjohnowls said:
Who has fought for peace all his life.0 -
This was debunked the other day (unless it has been undebunked).chestnut said:
Yet voted against the Peace Agreement in Northern Ireland. Bizarre.bigjohnowls said:
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Corbyn voted for the Good Friday Agreement but, along with Unionist and some Conservative MPs, against the earlier Anglo-Irish Agreement.0 -
err he hasntbigjohnowls said:
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.
he was cool with armed struggle
ballot boxes being a bit of an inconvenience if they didnt give the answer he wanted0 -
0
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Omnium: sure - that's why I say it's difficult for us armchair critics to judge. But it's a reasonable quesition to want reviewed, and no, Topping, I don't think that's making a political point. I'd be surprised if Mrs May disagreed.IanB2 said:
The media asking such questions is going to be a big part of the news in coming daysOmnium said:
NP he may have all sorts of negative indicators too - so perhaps he didn't post on some site or other, and he'd never visited some place, and he'd never eaten fish and chips without vinegar. You can't really put together all the binary flags that are against him without including all the binary flags that are with him. The only question really is was there a big red flag against his name - if there was and it wasn't followed up then that's bad. We can't though judge the process of raising those red flags with the incomplete information we have.0 -
RobD said:
Where's TSE's handy 'years since majority' bar chart when you need it?bigjohnowls said:
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.
0 -
It is bombing of ISIS in northern Iraq which will soon see the liberation of Mosulbigjohnowls said:
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.0 -
In secret as shown by the records released sinceJason said:
Yeah, and I don't recall Thatcher inviting Gerry Adams over for tea and biscuits a week after the Brighton bombing either.Alanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference0 -
Right on cue, TSE.0
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The week after Brighton?bigjohnowls said:
In secret as shown by the records released sinceJason said:
Yeah, and I don't recall Thatcher inviting Gerry Adams over for tea and biscuits a week after the Brighton bombing either.Alanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference0 -
You can tell that BJO is twitchy over this.brokenwheel said:
I'm no fan of May by any means and yes the Tories talk a good game on security & immigration but fail to deliver, but she is up against Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. That's all that needs to be said.bigjohnowls said:
What would you call it a catastrophic fook up ....... ON MAYS WATCH?Rexel56 said:
Ah, the not so subtle use of the word "mistake" showing that you understand absolutely zilch about the process of intelligence analysis...bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
snipPeter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Why not?
In the 2015 spending review Osborne actually announced zero cuts in the police budgets ... “Now is the time to back our police and give them the tools do the job. I am today announcing there will be no cuts in the police budget at all.
“There will be real terms protection for police funding. The police protect us, and we’re going to protect the police.”
Protecting overall police spending in real terms means an increase of £900million in cash by 2019/20.
At the same time there was announced a 30 per cent increase in the dedicated counter-terrorism budget.
£2.8 billion will be spent through the Single Intelligence Account, which includes the budgets of MI5 and MI6, by 2021 – an increase of around a third. THe defence budget is being increased from £34 billion to £40 billion.
Mrs May was the Home Secretary who lobbied for these issues.
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Yes, there's been little comment on the intelligence budget, which I think has had above-inflation increases for a while now.TMA1 said:
You can tell that BJO is twitchy over this.brokenwheel said:
I'm no fan of May by any means and yes the Tories talk a good game on security & immigration but fail to deliver, but she is up against Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. That's all that needs to be said.bigjohnowls said:
What would you call it a catastrophic fook up ....... ON MAYS WATCH?Rexel56 said:
Ah, the not so subtle use of the word "mistake" showing that you understand absolutely zilch about the process of intelligence analysis...bigjohnowls said:
You dont want a review of mistakes made in this case?TOPPING said:.
It is a political point and you, Nick, should be embarrassed at making it.NickPalmer said:
snipPeter_the_Punter said:
That kind of thing drives me nuts. How on earth are they supposed to follow every single little whisper? Unless somebody can prove TM was handed the guy's name and address with a picture of him making a bomb, and she then forgot to tell somebody, I'd take it with a massive pinch of salt.SeanT said:THIS, however, could be bad for TMay. She was Home Secretary at the time.
Though I suppose the argument is that it's more of a cock-up by MI5 or the cops. Hm.
https://twitter.com/FrankRGardner/status/867406559508398080
Why not?
In the 2015 spending review Osborne actually announced zero cuts in the police budgets ... “Now is the time to back our police and give them the tools do the job. I am today announcing there will be no cuts in the police budget at all.
“There will be real terms protection for police funding. The police protect us, and we’re going to protect the police.”
Protecting overall police spending in real terms means an increase of £900million in cash by 2019/20.
At the same time there was announced a 30 per cent increase in the dedicated counter-terrorism budget.
£2.8 billion will be spent through the Single Intelligence Account, which includes the budgets of MI5 and MI6, by 2021 – an increase of around a third. THe defence budget is being increased from £34 billion to £40 billion.
Mrs May was the Home Secretary who lobbied for these issues.0 -
If it is true that he condemned all bombing then please find me a single example from before Good Friday 1997 of Jeremy Corbyn criticising an IRA bomb.bigjohnowls said:
Keep murderingAlanbrooke said:
Jezza said keep murdering, Maggie said stopbigjohnowls said:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
Misquoting him again Mr Dancer as you must well knowMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, if Labour tries comparing May to Corbyn on terrorism it won't go well for the self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
The Tories let the family in and Made Libya a terrorist haven
May cut Police numbers by 200k
May cut all the armed services numbers
The police missed Abedi on Mays watch
May told the Police in 2015 they were crying wolf over the effect of frontline cuts
All this happened while the threat level was severe
Corbyn spoke to some Irish bloke 30 years ago well after Thatcher was doing so in secret
bit of a difference
That would be strange for a man who condemns all bombing
Who has fought for peace all his life.
Tories and Labour when they were the war criminal party vote for more bombing at every chance without a post war strategy making things worse each time.
A man who voted against the peace process and stood to honour the IRA consistently from the 80s onwards and was quite famously linked to them - if he ever condemned the IRA in the 80s or early 90s it should be well publicised. When did he?
I'm from Warrington, when two small children were blown up by the IRA did Corbyn condemn that?0
