Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
I am not sure da kidz would be happy to hear that or the parents who all thing there little precious deserves to go to uni good grades or not.
The most sensible approach would be a much more flexible system where a significant number of kids are encouraged to do university part time while living at home or nearer home. But then we can't have that as it would been seen as a two tier system, rather than the two tier system we currently have but people try to convince themselves doesn't exist , and that going to a university ranked 100th will stand you with an equal chance of a job as somebody from a uni in the top 10.
41% of London voters want Jeremy Corbyn as commander-in-chief. Just think about that for a moment or two.
It's the alternative on offer.
What's interesting about Labour is how the non-white vote doesn't seem too perturbed by Corbyn. Which is presumably why they are doing okay in London. It's strange though as many of them can be quit small 'c' conservative.
And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 times
I promise you will feel better
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.
But if Jezza had been on the Titanic he could have walked all those passengers over the water to safety.
If Jezza had been on the Titanic the Maomentum crowd would have successfully wished the iceberg out of existence. How can you believe otherwise.
They would have got a tweet of jazz hands "appaulase" gif trending by retweeting it and that would have moved the iceberg out of the way.
Look if you are going to get bogged down in the technicalities of how they would have achieved it you are simply going to miss out on the overarching vision.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Tuition fees will be gone one day. It's only a question of when.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Yes I agree, but what about all the people who were and are saddled with debts? Do they get a refund?
Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."
No shit! Astonishing that they are only starting to have concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness now.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Tuition fees will be gone one day. It's only a question of when.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Tuition fees will be gone one day. It's only a question of when.
You can have free university education, or you can have 45% going to university. But you can't have both, except in an ideal world which we'd all like to live in but which sadly doesn't exist.
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5] Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3 Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1 UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7 Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.
my son works for network rail in warrington, very unionised workplace WWC traditional labour vote. none of them can stand Corbyn . infact on Corbyns visit to warrington the other week some of the comments on social media were not good because of his IRA loving background . it could well flip blue
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Yes I agree, but what about all the people who were and are saddled with debts? Do they get a refund?
A refund would be nice, but I'll live. What has happened to the post 2012 cohort is beyond cruel in my opinion.
But I don't think we have the money to do that lot with Brexit and all
Look its simple. We double CT (even though reducing it has actually increased the take to date) and its all paid for without any adverse consequences to anyone.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Tuition fees will be gone one day. It's only a question of when.
You can have free university education, or you can have 45% going to university. But you can't have both, except in an ideal world which we'd all like to live in but which sadly doesn't exist.
The third alternative is basically what we have now, a graduate tax. The only difference is we have a capped graduate tax system rather than one without any ceiling.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Yes I agree, but what about all the people who were and are saddled with debts? Do they get a refund?
Yes, they should get a refund of some sort. Maybe ending free bus passes for 60 year old's would be a start.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Whatever you think of Corbyn we're still facing the challenge of how to make a modern market economy work. The Tories haven't exactly proved too successful on that front either.
Disagree. Our living standards continue to improve despite the consequences of the odd Labour government (none as odd as the current shower of course) . The market economy continues to work for us all albeit to very different extents. The increase in inequality is an increasing concern and is potentially destabilising but as a method of wealth creation it has yet to be beaten.
"Our living standards have continued to improve"
Is that in the last 70 years, or the last 20? Surprisingly, if you talk to people under 30, they are distinctly underwhelmed with improvement in living standards before, ooh, the mid 90s...
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
Free things, things that are declared will be run in the public interest, more cheap homes, and taxes on others to pay for it all can look appetising on paper.
But these policies were all tested to death over many years many decades ago. And we know how they ended up.
It's a recipe for economic sclerosis, serfdom and a nation held to ransom by prevailing producer interests.
If Corbyn had been on board the Titanic he would have organized the sailors, called a wildcat strike over derisory pay rates and got the dockworkers to "black" the ship. By the time they sailed the iceberg would have melted.
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Tuition fees will be gone one day. It's only a question of when.
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
You live in a marginal
Eckington & Killamarsh ward is very marginal now. Which tells you all you need to know about Engel's chances in NE Derbyshire. Take a look at the Dronfield votes...
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
There may be 1 or 2 sensible ideas which could have had a place in a moderate centrist manifesto but the whole thing put together just screams irresponsible.
Add in the fact that Labour hasn't done the groundwork for a lot of these policies (e.g. the big push on trainfares which was cancelled because of Corbyn's reshuffle)
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
The third alternative is basically what we have now, a graduate tax. The only difference is we have a capped graduate tax system rather than one without any ceiling.
Why doesn't the government do that? It would shut up students/lefties and probably bring in more money.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
There may be 1 or 2 sensible ideas which could have had a place in a moderate centrist manifesto but the whole thing put together just screams irresponsible.
Add in the fact that Labour hasn't done the groundwork for a lot of these policies (e.g. the big push on trainfares which was cancelled because of Corbyn's reshuffle)
I reckon Diane Abbott did the maths on costing all this stuff.
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5] Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3 Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1 UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7 Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.
my son works for network rail in warrington, very unionised workplace WWC traditional labour vote. none of them can stand Corbyn . infact on Corbyns visit to warrington the other week some of the comments on social media were not good because of his IRA loving background . it could well flip blue
Policies Policies Policies.
The working class need to look at Corbyns Policies rather than the Sun headlines
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
The problem is that the Overton window has shifted massively since then and Labour haven't laid the groundwork to try and move it back.
I wonder if this manifesto has been leaked by the moderates to put pressure on to tone it down. As it stands, this manifesto makes it so easy for the Tories:
In Brexitland, the message is Labour wants open borders and are weak on defence In London, I expect we'll see "Labour's tax bombshell" wheeled out again.
I expect bicycling vegans who live in Islington will be delighted but middle England will be horrified.
Interesting question is, how exactly are Lab candidates going to defend it on the doorstep/say they are standing on the basis of their party manifesto? Oh, yeah. Right. Scrub that.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Whatever you think of Corbyn we're still facing the challenge of how to make a modern market economy work. The Tories haven't exactly proved too successful on that front either.
Disagree. Our living standards continue to improve despite the consequences of the odd Labour government (none as odd as the current shower of course) . The market economy continues to work for us all albeit to very different extents. The increase in inequality is an increasing concern and is potentially destabilising but as a method of wealth creation it has yet to be beaten.
I wasn't disagreeing with the market economy per se just questioning why it hasn't worked better in the UK in recent decades. Simon Nixon of the Wall Street Journal had a good quote from a foreign CEO of a company operating in the UK. 'The trouble with you lot in London is you don't know your own country. The reality is you're Switzerland connected to East Germany.'
For all the manure thrown at the French by our idiotic right wing press we seem unable to outperform them in terms of per capita incomes which are 15%+ below the average in the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden. That's in spite of our long hours and high number of billionaires - see the rich list - to push up the average.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
London Overground TFL Rail Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5] Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3 Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1 UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7 Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.
my son works for network rail in warrington, very unionised workplace WWC traditional labour vote. none of them can stand Corbyn . infact on Corbyns visit to warrington the other week some of the comments on social media were not good because of his IRA loving background . it could well flip blue
Policies Policies Policies.
The working class need to look at Corbyns Policies rather than the Sun headlines
Policy of absolutely no reform of immigration....going to go down really well....
Getting rid of tuition fees is an excellent idea in my opinion. It's just that it would be necessary to reduce the number of people going to university to about 20% once again in order to make it viable.
Yes I agree, but what about all the people who were and are saddled with debts? Do they get a refund?
Yes, they should get a refund of some sort. Maybe ending free bus passes for 60 year old's would be a start.
I wonder how many routes would survive without the free passes?
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
Crazy Torynomics
That's exactly right - the existing policy is indefensible on any level because (outside London) you are only allowed to nationalise a railway to a foreign government. Inside London, nationalisation is fine.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
There may be 1 or 2 sensible ideas which could have had a place in a moderate centrist manifesto but the whole thing put together just screams irresponsible.
Add in the fact that Labour hasn't done the groundwork for a lot of these policies (e.g. the big push on trainfares which was cancelled because of Corbyn's reshuffle)
The energy policy is very interesting. It isn't simple nationalisation, it's nationalising the Grid and having a 'public option' as the Big 7th Energy Company. Basically the train system now, but since energy companies can compete over the same wires (whereas train franchises can't over the same rails) it stands a better chance of working. If you start from the assumption that the free market in energy isn't working well (which I go back and forth on) then this is a solid way you might intervene.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Whatever you think of Corbyn we're still facing the challenge of how to make a modern market economy work. The Tories haven't exactly proved too successful on that front either.
Disagree. Our living standards continue to improve despite the consequences of the odd Labour government (none as odd as the current shower of course) . The market economy continues to work for us all albeit to very different extents. The increase in inequality is an increasing concern and is potentially destabilising but as a method of wealth creation it has yet to be beaten.
"Our living standards have continued to improve"
Is that in the last 70 years, or the last 20? Surprisingly, if you talk to people under 30, they are distinctly underwhelmed with improvement in living standards before, ooh, the mid 90s...
We have short term fluctuations when a government is particularly stupid but the trend remains clear and I am not convinced it will not continue despite the chronic amount of debt we have dumped on the next generation.
41% of London voters want Jeremy Corbyn as commander-in-chief. Just think about that for a moment or two.
You're scaring me now.
Even at its lowest ebb (and apparently they are far from that) millions of people would prefer Corbyn to May as PM. You probably know many but aren't aware of it.
But I don't think we have the money to do that lot with Brexit and all
Look its simple. We double CT (even though reducing it has actually increased the take to date) and its all paid for without any adverse consequences to anyone.
Time for freeloading big Corporates to pay towards a decent society IMO
The energy policy is very interesting. It isn't simple nationalisation, it's nationalising the Grid and having a 'public option' as the Big 7th Energy Company.
That sounds like it might produce a BT/OpenReach type of mess. So even worse than the current situation.
Yep. They'll lose several dozen seats, but a Tory landslide of well over 100 will not occur, and he'll get equivalent to Brown and Miliband in votes, and so stay on.
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5] Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3 Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1 UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7 Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.
my son works for network rail in warrington, very unionised workplace WWC traditional labour vote. none of them can stand Corbyn . infact on Corbyns visit to warrington the other week some of the comments on social media were not good because of his IRA loving background . it could well flip blue
Policies Policies Policies.
The working class need to look at Corbyns Policies rather than the Sun headlines
If Corbyn combined that with strong patriotism, strong defence, euroscepticism, immigration control and support for the monarchy, I agree the Tories might start to be very concerned.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
Crazy Torynomics
I thought Brexit was about taking control. Nationalising French and German rail into British Rail is taking back control.
Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."
No shit! Astonishing that they are only starting to have concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness now.
Even the PB Trumptons are starting to have concerns? He's fucked!! ;-)
But I don't think we have the money to do that lot with Brexit and all
Look its simple. We double CT (even though reducing it has actually increased the take to date) and its all paid for without any adverse consequences to anyone.
Time for freeloading big Corporates to pay towards a decent society IMO
If they are truly freeloading, how is doubling corporation tax going to help. Doubling zero is still zero
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
Someone is trying to sabotage its finalisation prior to its launch.
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5] Party Candidate Votes % ± Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3 Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1 UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7 Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.
my son works for network rail in warrington, very unionised workplace WWC traditional labour vote. none of them can stand Corbyn . infact on Corbyns visit to warrington the other week some of the comments on social media were not good because of his IRA loving background . it could well flip blue
Policies Policies Policies.
The working class need to look at Corbyns Policies rather than the Sun headlines
Why do they need to do that? If he seems incompetent or uncaring of many of their concerns, why do his policies matter? The same reasoning has always applied in the other direction.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
The Royal Mail sell off was a low point for Osborne. The taxpayer lost about a billion quid, so undervalued was the asset. Not that it should ever have been sold in the first place.
If Corbyn had been on board the Titanic he would have organized the sailors, called a wildcat strike over derisory pay rates and got the dockworkers to "black" the ship. By the time they sailed the iceberg would have melted.
It doesn't matter what's in Labour's manifesto. Most voters think that Corbyn & Co. are tossers, so they won't vote for them.
Traitors, is more accurate.
It's not enough to think a party has your own best economic interests at heart if you know they're incompetent and suspect they will sell out both the nation, and your own physical security, at the earliest opportunity.
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
Someone is trying to sabotage its finalisation prior to its launch.
That will be for a reason.
The campaign team is so inept, Milne probably texted it to everyone on his speed dial.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
Someone is trying to sabotage its finalisation prior to its launch.
That will be for a reason.
Why assume the release is to sabotage it? The Mirror say,
Overall the manifesto will delight Labour left-wingers who have spent decades calling for the party to be more radical.
But it was strongly criticised last night by a source from the right of the party who has read it in full.
The source said: “Is that it? For 40 years the Hard Left wanted to control the Labour manifesto, and all it amounts to is a load of freebies for every special interest group."
So you've got one side of the party who will be very happy, and another side who will continue to bitch and moan, but do nothing about it, meaning it will go forward as is and most MPs will play ball and say they support it, if pressed.
It doesn't matter what's in Labour's manifesto. Most voters think that Corbyn & Co. are tossers, so they won't vote for them.
Traitors, is more accurate.
It's not enough to think a party has your own best economic interests at heart if you know they're incompetent and suspect they will sell out both the nation, and your own physical security, at the earliest opportunity.
Momentum on//// Come the glorious revolution you will be first up against the wall you capitalist lick spittle running dog/// Momentum off
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
Free things, things that are declared will be run in the public interest, more cheap homes, and taxes on others to pay for it all can look appetising on paper.
But these policies were all tested to death over many years many decades ago. And we know how they ended up.
It's a recipe for economic sclerosis, serfdom and a nation held to ransom by prevailing producer interests.
Hang on, you're against houses now? Houses are communist?
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
Someone is trying to sabotage its finalisation prior to its launch.
That will be for a reason.
Why assume the release is to sabotage it? The Mirror say,
Overall the manifesto will delight Labour left-wingers who have spent decades calling for the party to be more radical.
But it was strongly criticised last night by a source from the right of the party who has read it in full.
The source said: “Is that it? For 40 years the Hard Left wanted to control the Labour manifesto, and all it amounts to is a load of freebies for every special interest group."
So you've got one side of the party who will be very happy, and another side who will continue to bitch and moan, but do nothing about it, meaning it will go forward as is and most MPs will play ball and say they support it, if pressed.
TFL has the second worse record on strikes of any rail network in the UK of recent times.
I have no problem with nationalisation of the railways if it is done in a workable way, but it requires people to stop thinking that it will be simple, shit money and solve all our issues. The reason rail use has skyrocketed isn't because it was always going to, it is because the private firms made the trains usable again and would going back to the old British Rail replicate that? Or do we have an arms length body to run it and if so are the unions going to play ball as they are the biggest stumbling block to all of this, they do not have the working relationship with the TOC's that the unions do in France or Holland. It is adversarial.
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.
Privatisation is far from universally perceived to have been a success. Blair made the mistake of not even trying to reverse some of the sell offs of the Thatcher-Major years. Renationalizing the Railways & the Water companies would have been popular in 1997 but he appeared determined to accept the Thatcherite settlement and in some ways to take it further.I believe I am correct in saying that Scottish Water remains in the public sector so such a proposal is hardly extreme.I suspect returning Royal Mail to state control would also be welcomed by many.
The Royal Mail sell off was a low point for Osborne. The taxpayer lost about a billion quid, so undervalued was the asset. Not that it should ever have been sold in the first place.
I was disappointed in myself for not signing up to buy the shares. I (perhaps foolishly) believed they would be sold off at a fair market value in order to be fair to the purchasers and the taxpayer. Oh how wrong I was....
So various media outlets have got hold of this leak. And all at very similar times.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
Labour did, to test it out, see which bits they focus on from hereon out. And because the lack of CPS charges meant no good news the leak would distract from.
Someone is trying to sabotage its finalisation prior to its launch.
That will be for a reason.
Why assume the release is to sabotage it? The Mirror say,
Overall the manifesto will delight Labour left-wingers who have spent decades calling for the party to be more radical.
But it was strongly criticised last night by a source from the right of the party who has read it in full.
The source said: “Is that it? For 40 years the Hard Left wanted to control the Labour manifesto, and all it amounts to is a load of freebies for every special interest group."
So you've got one side of the party who will be very happy, and another side who will continue to bitch and moan, but do nothing about it, meaning it will go forward as is and most MPs will play ball and say they support it, if pressed.
The Mirror is hardly a neutral source.
The point was some in Labour will love it, others might hate it but have demonstrated they have no balls, so won't do anything about it, so the release won't sabotage it in my view.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
Crazy Torynomics
Dutch and German - Abellio and Deutsche Bahn
Once we are out of the EU we can look at tightening who runs what, the principle problem is the barriers to entry in the market are huge and the expertise are sparse.
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...
Free things, things that are declared will be run in the public interest, more cheap homes, and taxes on others to pay for it all can look appetising on paper.
But these policies were all tested to death over many years many decades ago. And we know how they ended up.
It's a recipe for economic sclerosis, serfdom and a nation held to ransom by prevailing producer interests.
Hang on, you're against houses now? Houses are communist?
Not at all. Mass state social housing programmes (council housing) would have all the problems and challenges all over again that became so obvious by the 1970s.
Personally I'd cut all housing benefit and spend the spare cash on council houses. Osborne's BTL reforms are pretty good for that side of things to stop excessive ownership imo.
Part of me wouldn't be surprised if that was the eventual result. Labour still looks high but the core vote strategy might get 30% out to vote for them.
TFL has the second worse record on strikes of any rail network in the UK of recent times.
I have no problem with nationalisation of the railways if it is done in a workable way, but it requires people to stop thinking that it will be simple, shit money and solve all our issues. The reason rail use has skyrocketed isn't because it was always going to, it is because the private firms made the trains usable again and would going back to the old British Rail replicate that? Or do we have an arms length body to run it and if so are the unions going to play ball as they are the biggest stumbling block to all of this, they do not have the working relationship with the TOC's that the unions do in France or Holland. It is adversarial.
Arriva's parent compant is Deutsche Bahn. They also run CrossCountry.
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.
Which TOCs in the UK are nationalised?
French and German Nationalised Rail Companies are both running Trains here.
Crazy Torynomics
Dutch and German - Abellio and Deutsche Bahn
Once we are out of the EU we can look at tightening who runs what, the principle problem is the barriers to entry in the market are huge and the expertise are sparse.
And it's a natural monopoly. And one that requires public subsidy.
Comments
The most sensible approach would be a much more flexible system where a significant number of kids are encouraged to do university part time while living at home or nearer home. But then we can't have that as it would been seen as a two tier system, rather than the two tier system we currently have but people try to convince themselves doesn't exist , and that going to a university ranked 100th will stand you with an equal chance of a job as somebody from a uni in the top 10.
JICIPM!
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/862415524487155712
Even if the spending is batshit crazy.
So who leaked this manifesto to them, and why?
AB would have been OK
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/862416965750665216
Crazy Torynomics
Is that in the last 70 years, or the last 20? Surprisingly, if you talk to people under 30, they are distinctly underwhelmed with improvement in living standards before, ooh, the mid 90s...
But these policies were all tested to death over many years many decades ago. And we know how they ended up.
It's a recipe for economic sclerosis, serfdom and a nation held to ransom by prevailing producer interests.
The only problem with that story is that apparently no HQ staffers outside the leader's office were given copies before it leaked
If the choice is between Corbyn and killing every fox in Britain I'll get a spade and start whacking the beggars myself.
Add in the fact that Labour hasn't done the groundwork for a lot of these policies (e.g. the big push on trainfares which was cancelled because of Corbyn's reshuffle)
https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/862418024183222272
The working class need to look at Corbyns Policies rather than the Sun headlines
For all the manure thrown at the French by our idiotic right wing press we seem unable to outperform them in terms of per capita incomes which are 15%+ below the average in the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden. That's in spite of our long hours and high number of billionaires - see the rich list - to push up the average.
TFL Rail
Newcastle Metro
Eurostar and East Coast Main Line were too until the Tories sold them off for no good reason other than batshit crazy ideology - they were both well run in the public sector.
Two further franchises are nationalised to France and Germany...
Interestingly the last politician to permanently nationalise a railway to improve it was that well known Commie Boris "Red Bozza" Johnson, who brought the Abelio Greater Anglia into the Overground (Chingford and Waltham Cross to Liverpool St) because the franchisee was running it into the ground.
That could get you 250,000 extra police or something...
We have short term fluctuations when a government is particularly stupid but the trend remains clear and I am not convinced it will not continue despite the chronic amount of debt we have dumped on the next generation.
Is there anywhere we can see who is up for where (Other than Wiki ?)
That will be for a reason.
ho ho ho
That is all
Why do they need to do that? If he seems incompetent or uncaring of many of their concerns, why do his policies matter? The same reasoning has always applied in the other direction.
It's not enough to think a party has your own best economic interests at heart if you know they're incompetent and suspect they will sell out both the nation, and your own physical security, at the earliest opportunity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/05/10/jeremy-corbyns-leaked-manifesto-fantasy-land-blueprint-socialist/
Overall the manifesto will delight Labour left-wingers who have spent decades calling for the party to be more radical.
But it was strongly criticised last night by a source from the right of the party who has read it in full.
The source said: “Is that it? For 40 years the Hard Left wanted to control the Labour manifesto, and all it amounts to is a load of freebies for every special interest group."
So you've got one side of the party who will be very happy, and another side who will continue to bitch and moan, but do nothing about it, meaning it will go forward as is and most MPs will play ball and say they support it, if pressed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Overground_Rail_Operations_Limited
TFL has the second worse record on strikes of any rail network in the UK of recent times.
I have no problem with nationalisation of the railways if it is done in a workable way, but it requires people to stop thinking that it will be simple, shit money and solve all our issues. The reason rail use has skyrocketed isn't because it was always going to, it is because the private firms made the trains usable again and would going back to the old British Rail replicate that?
Or do we have an arms length body to run it and if so are the unions going to play ball as they are the biggest stumbling block to all of this, they do not have the working relationship with the TOC's that the unions do in France or Holland. It is adversarial.
Oh how wrong I was....
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/862416838575235072