politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Local election debrief, Gene
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Pay bargaining and increased unionisation across the workforce will also be introduced according to the draft plan
I am curious, as I don't know much about unions generally - how would unionisation be increased via a government policy?0 -
This time they appear to have selected a picture by Edvard Munch.kle4 said:
Editors have fun picking photos for stories, don't they?Black_Rook said:0 -
That 50% maths assumes the "gateway drug" theory that Sir Norfolk was advocating earlier. I'm sceptical that it applies in Lancashire mill/mining towns where there will be a real cultural resistance in some parts to actually vote Conservative, even if they agreed on Brexit, Diane Abbot etc etc.Black_Rook said:
Worsley & Eccles South is no.69 on the Con target list, with a Labour majority of just over 14%. However, it also has a very high Ukip vote, and any seat where the 2015 Ukip vote exceeded the Labour majority has to be considered at least potentially in play.PaulM said:See Shadsy has Worsley and Eccles South as a toss up 5/6 Labour 5/6 Con (Cllr Lindley, a PBer)
Surprised me. Any thoughts ?
If we were to assign half of the 2015 Ukip vote to the Tories, then Labour would go into this election with a notional majority of 5%.0 -
That really harsh on ed miliband...He had some policies that I don't think were a good idea (one of which may is copying) but it wasn't batshit insane like team twats effort.Ishmael_Z said:
'A Labour source warned it is "Ed Miliband's manifesto with hard left hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top".'kle4 said:
Editors have fun picking photos for stories, don't they?Black_Rook said:
It's less magic money tree and more magic money forrest0 -
"The Labour leader also refuses to set a target to cut immigration and instead pledges to scrap rules that force migrants to prove they have enough money to live and work in the UK before they are allowed into the country."FrancisUrquhart said:
It's Fucking batshit insane....Black_Rook said://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/862398918969233409
Not exactly a heartfelt appeal to the old WWC is it? I may have to revise my estimate of the Ukip-to-Con defection rate up from a half to two-thirds...0 -
Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Make unionisation compulsory for any firm with 10 or more employees ?kle4 said:Pay bargaining and increased unionisation across the workforce will also be introduced according to the draft plan
I am curious, as I don't know much about unions generally - how would unionisation be increased via a government policy?0 -
I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.0
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Only buy from/deal with unionised suppliers?kle4 said:Pay bargaining and increased unionisation across the workforce will also be introduced according to the draft plan
I am curious, as I don't know much about unions generally - how would unionisation be increased via a government policy?0 -
What was it that Gerald Kaufman said? I think we have a new winner...Black_Rook said:0 -
Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. ... We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country round a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain
Unless there's some crucial words in the '...', that tells me nothing at all. I cannot wait to see if the Con manifesto is as similarly bland and meaningless on the point!0 -
The Tories will probably underperform in Greater Manchester. Like Merseyide (though not to the same degree) the trend is leftward.Black_Rook said:
Worsley & Eccles South is no.69 on the Con target list, with a Labour majority of just over 14%. However, it also has a very high Ukip vote, and any seat where the 2015 Ukip vote exceeded the Labour majority has to be considered at least potentially in play.PaulM said:See Shadsy has Worsley and Eccles South as a toss up 5/6 Labour 5/6 Con (Cllr Lindley, a PBer)
Surprised me. Any thoughts ?
If we were to assign half of the 2015 Ukip vote to the Tories, then Labour would go into this election with a notional majority of 5%.0 -
Nuclear weapons: Keep Trident. "Labour supports the renewal of the Trident submarine system. But any prime minister should be extremely cautious about ordering the use of weapons of mass destruction which would result in the indiscriminate killing of millions of innocent civilians
Oh come on, what a pointless clarification! I'm sure all other parties supporting Trident don't think being cautious about using it is a good idea.0 -
If team twat get in can the last on out please remember to turn off the lights....0
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Maybe they should stand by their principles and do something about it then.FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
I have no sympathy for MPs that stood by and did nothing after their No Confidence motion failed to remove him and he was re-elected again. The party should have split then.
Corbyn after facing down his rebels who no confidenced him and has twice been elected has every right and mandate to put his manifesto to the public and be judged accordingly.
The MPs who chose they'd rather be led by Corbyn than leave the comfort blanket of the Labour Party can also be judged accordingly.0 -
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They're certainly missing the ex shadow secretary of state for Scotland who was excellentOUT said:
They're missing the Scottish mafia.Roger said:OT. This must be the weakest shadow cabinet in living memory. Every spokesperson makes you cringe. I'm not sure they were brains of Britain before the mass resignations but since they've become a horror show.
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It's ridiculous to even pretend to suggest that JC might fire it. We all know, rightly or wrongly, that would never happen. And he's the one who would have the decision.kle4 said:Nuclear weapons: Keep Trident. "Labour supports the renewal of the Trident submarine system. But any prime minister should be extremely cautious about ordering the use of weapons of mass destruction which would result in the indiscriminate killing of millions of innocent civilians
Oh come on, what a pointless clarification! I'm sure all other parties supporting Trident don't think being cautious about using it is a good idea.0 -
Oh ffs I am off to the states in a few weeks...Possibly To claim asylum in canada....And I need to work on the way.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
This was my recipe from last Friday: Advice to Labour from a former Tory spin doctor, for what it's worth.
http://www.lifestuff.xyz/blog/labour-not-corbyn
Sensible Labour need to seize the opportunity after close of nominations tomorrow... if they don't, they're toast.0 -
Yes, he may as well put his Letter of Last Resort on Facebook.numbertwelve said:
It's ridiculous to even pretend to suggest that JC might fire it. We all know, rightly or wrongly, that would never happen. And he's the one who would have the decision.kle4 said:Nuclear weapons: Keep Trident. "Labour supports the renewal of the Trident submarine system. But any prime minister should be extremely cautious about ordering the use of weapons of mass destruction which would result in the indiscriminate killing of millions of innocent civilians
Oh come on, what a pointless clarification! I'm sure all other parties supporting Trident don't think being cautious about using it is a good idea.0 -
I have Worsley at seat 394 and Wirral South at seat 395 personally. Am on Wirral South at a ludicrous 8-1 for Labour with Paddy.Sean_F said:
The Tories will probably underperform in Greater Manchester. Like Merseyide (though not to the same degree) the trend is leftward.Black_Rook said:
Worsley & Eccles South is no.69 on the Con target list, with a Labour majority of just over 14%. However, it also has a very high Ukip vote, and any seat where the 2015 Ukip vote exceeded the Labour majority has to be considered at least potentially in play.PaulM said:See Shadsy has Worsley and Eccles South as a toss up 5/6 Labour 5/6 Con (Cllr Lindley, a PBer)
Surprised me. Any thoughts ?
If we were to assign half of the 2015 Ukip vote to the Tories, then Labour would go into this election with a notional majority of 5%.0 -
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
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I think Tim Farron will keep his seat regardless.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If there were zero votes cast, then all the odd ball candidates would be in with a shout.TheScreamingEagles said:
I hope you haven't taken off your coat.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
That could be a lot of funTheScreamingEagles said:
Lots are drawn then.nunu said:I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this mos unlikely scenario. Say if not a single person casts a vote, literally not a single one anywhere including the candidates themselves. Who would be our MP's? Does any one know the answer to this constitutional problem?
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Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
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As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.0 -
In all seriousness I make him a fair bit more vulnerable than Clegg.nunu said:
I think Tim Farron will keep his seat regardless.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
If there were zero votes cast, then all the odd ball candidates would be in with a shout.TheScreamingEagles said:
I hope you haven't taken off your coat.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
That could be a lot of funTheScreamingEagles said:
Lots are drawn then.nunu said:I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this mos unlikely scenario. Say if not a single person casts a vote, literally not a single one anywhere including the candidates themselves. Who would be our MP's? Does any one know the answer to this constitutional problem?
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Free Marxism and gender studies for all!FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.0 -
I heard Angela Rayner use lickle instead of little and Pacific instead of specific in a Radio 4 interview. She is now shadow education secretary. Rolls eyes.Roger said:OT. This must be the weakest shadow cabinet in living memory. Every spokesperson makes you cringe. I'm not sure they were brains of Britain before the mass resignations but since they've become a horror show.
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Tuition fees abolished, everything renationalised, 100 thousand council houses a year...
https://twitter.com/jbeattiemirror/status/8623995144429568010 -
Borrow big, spend big. It's a valid platform.FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Speaking at Leeds community college alongside the shadow education secretary Angela Rayner, Corbyn said: “You’ll have to wait for the manifesto. I know you’re desperate for it and I’ve got some stuff in my pocket, but, sorry, I’m not allowed to give it to you. Is that alright? Do you mind? Can you cope with the excitement?”
That's actually pretty funny, albeit easy to do when preaching to the converted.0 -
Possibly but more likely swept away in a Tsunami of votes to kick Corbyn as hard as possible.kle4 said:
Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
That is the best insurance for Labour. Corbyn crucified at the polls and Labour rebuild after he has gone or failing that in a new party,,, aptly named New New Labour
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kle4 said:
Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
I remain to be convinced. It's one thing to think: "gee, that JC is a right prat, but I like my local Labour MP so I'll hold my nose and send a vote Labour's way" to actually turn that into a motivation on polling day to troop down to your polling station and actually do it.kle4 said:
Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
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Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.0 -
I'm sceptical too, but the numbers don't look apocalyptic for Labour, even though they don't look good.numbertwelve said:kle4 said:
Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
I remain to be convinced. It's one thing to think: "gee, that JC is a right prat, but I like my local Labour MP so I'll hold my nose and send a vote Labour's way" to actually turn that into a motivation on polling day to troop down to your polling station and actually do it.kle4 said:
Well the polls say the voters are willing to stick with them as much as 2015, perhaps in part because there seems so little chance of Corbyn becoming PM, so some surprising ones may be saved.SquareRoot said:
they wont.. I heard a Labour MP on R5 live saying he cannot mention Corbyn on the doorstep for fear of being laughed at. Left on his own by Labour HQ, in a marginal....FrancisUrquhart said:I feel really sorry for the sensible labour MPs who live in reality. They are going to have to try and defend this shit....I can't imagine cooper balls believes in most of the stuff in this leak.
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Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.0
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I wonder if she is Keith Lemon's sister.Nemtynakht said:
I heard Angela Rayner use lickle instead of little and Pacific instead of specific in a Radio 4 interview. She is now shadow education secretary. Rolls eyes.Roger said:OT. This must be the weakest shadow cabinet in living memory. Every spokesperson makes you cringe. I'm not sure they were brains of Britain before the mass resignations but since they've become a horror show.
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The
I think the areas more at risk will be those with significant new housing development, ties to defence industry / large amounts of veterans, and strong leave areas. In Manchester and area you have to consider influx of media industry to Media city.Pulpstar said:
I have Worsley at seat 394 and Wirral South at seat 395 personally. Am on Wirral South at a ludicrous 8-1 for Labour with Paddy.Sean_F said:
The Tories will probably underperform in Greater Manchester. Like Merseyide (though not to the same degree) the trend is leftward.Black_Rook said:
Worsley & Eccles South is no.69 on the Con target list, with a Labour majority of just over 14%. However, it also has a very high Ukip vote, and any seat where the 2015 Ukip vote exceeded the Labour majority has to be considered at least potentially in play.PaulM said:See Shadsy has Worsley and Eccles South as a toss up 5/6 Labour 5/6 Con (Cllr Lindley, a PBer)
Surprised me. Any thoughts ?
If we were to assign half of the 2015 Ukip vote to the Tories, then Labour would go into this election with a notional majority of 5%.0 -
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
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Not all of it is crazy - some good stuff in there. Shame about the messenger!SimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
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To be fair, doesn't the German government enforce collective bargaining and it doesn't seem to put off business there?0
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I wonder how it will go down in Glasgow.
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It seems like every media organisation has the "scoop". So either it was some idiot at team twat hit reply to all in an email or they have deliberately leaked it.isam said:Tuition fees abolished, everything renationalised, 100 thousand council houses a year...
twitter.com/jbeattiemirror/status/8623995144429568010 -
No.murali_s said:
Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Every party gets a bounce after their manifesto launch where they promise motherhood, apple pie andfree moneyrealistic and costed spending proposals paid for by sensible taxation increases on somebody else.
It lasts until the next manifesto is launched. Not a nanosecond longer.
And Labour are currently so far behind that launching policies even their own shadow ministers don't understand (admittedly as @Roger noted upthread, possibly the least distinguished set of nonentities since Derby's Who? Who? Ministry of 1852 and arguably since Pitt's famous first cabinet of 1783 when it was famously said the only notable achievement any of them had was the ability to imbibe vast amounts of alcohol) is not likely to make a sufficient difference to make them a political force again.0 -
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Looking at the spending commitments, that really ought to be billions and trillions.Ishmael_Z said:
'A Labour source warned it is "Ed Miliband's manifesto with hard left hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top".'kle4 said:
Editors have fun picking photos for stories, don't they?Black_Rook said:
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And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.0 -
Strange to say it but I quite like bits and pieces from the manifestos of both major parties. If it wasn't for immigration i think I'm a floater0
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Where did I say it amounts to communism? I was saying the Tories have painted Corbyn as so far to the left he could be outright communist in his manifesto and it would not surprise me. That's why i'm not in some state of shock at how left it is or is not, since nothing would shock me based on Tory preparation.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
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Works councils are quite different from trade unions, to be honest, as a machanism for that.Gallowgate said:To be fair, doesn't the German government enforce collective bargaining and it doesn't seem to put off business there?
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This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
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Fair enough - I misread! My mistake.kle4 said:
Where did I say it amounts to communism? I was saying the Tories have painted Corbyn as so far to the left he could be outright communist in his manifesto and it would not surprise me. That's why i'm not in some state of shock at how left it is or is not, since nothing would shock me based on Tory preparation.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Bet you they wouldn't have done so had the CPS had better news this morning.FrancisUrquhart said:
It seems like every media organisation has the "scoop". So either it was some idiot at team twat hit reply to all in an email or they have deliberately leaked it.isam said:Tuition fees abolished, everything renationalised, 100 thousand council houses a year...
twitter.com/jbeattiemirror/status/8623995144429568010 -
My tip 21/10 Paddy Power
Warrington North
General Election 2015: Warrington North[4][5]
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Labour Helen Jones 21,720 47.8 +2.3
Conservative Richard Short 12,797 28.2 -2.1
UKIP Trevor Nicholls 7,757 17.1 N/A
Liberal Democrat Stefan Krizanac 1,881 4.1 −16.7
Green Sarah Hayes 1,264 2.8 N/A
I think this one could go Tory, I grew up here. If the IRA / Corbyn story gets traction or wide publicity, then this could suppress the labour turnout, large UKIP vote to squeeze, Warrington as a whole voted 55% leave and this is the less well off of the two Warrington constituencies.0 -
If I was in the Shadow Cabinet responsible for putting this nonsense forward imbibing vast quantities of alcohol would be a rational response.ydoethur said:
No.murali_s said:
Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Every party gets a bounce after their manifesto launch where they promise motherhood, apple pie andfree moneyrealistic and costed spending proposals paid for by sensible taxation increases on somebody else.
It lasts until the next manifesto is launched. Not a nanosecond longer.
And Labour are currently so far behind that launching policies even their own shadow ministers don't understand (admittedly as @Roger noted upthread, possibly the least distinguished set of nonentities since Derby's Who? Who? Ministry of 1852 and arguably since Pitt's famous first cabinet of 1783 when it was famously said the only notable achievement any of them had was the ability to imbibe vast amounts of alcohol) is not likely to make a sufficient difference to make them a political force again.0 -
Happens to the best of us.justin124 said:
Fair enough - I misread! My mistake.kle4 said:
Where did I say it amounts to communism? I was saying the Tories have painted Corbyn as so far to the left he could be outright communist in his manifesto and it would not surprise me. That's why i'm not in some state of shock at how left it is or is not, since nothing would shock me based on Tory preparation.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Flussshhhisam said:Strange to say it but I quite like bits and pieces from the manifestos of both major parties. If it wasn't for immigration i think I'm a floater
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Well, that was the idea. There is one poster on these threads who voted for Corbyn in the apparent belief that Green votes had cost him his seat and that a proper left alternative would see them come back to the fold, and therefore he might win his seat again.FrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
He was warned at the time it would be at the cost of every Labour voter who could pass for sane in a clear light deserting the party which would cost them far more seats, but he chose not to listen. He is now about to be given a painful lesson in reality that to judge by his increasingly agitated posts he is not relishing.
Makes you wonder whether those old jokes about politicians are quite so wide of the mark.0 -
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
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Is Corbyn planning to carve these manifesto pledges into stone?0
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No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Well people wanted a truly leftwing labour party back and the wish has come true.FrancisUrquhart said:
It's Fucking batshit insane....Black_Rook said://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/862398918969233409
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Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better0 -
It is not hard to imagine that the performances of Abbott, Long-Bailey, Rayner and Burgon would be considerably less inept and embarrassing if they were wasted during their interviews. At least they wouldn't say enough to cause a catastrophe!DavidL said:
If I was in the Shadow Cabinet responsible for putting this nonsense forward imbibing vast quantities of alcohol would be a rational response.ydoethur said:
No.murali_s said:
Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Every party gets a bounce after their manifesto launch where they promise motherhood, apple pie andfree moneyrealistic and costed spending proposals paid for by sensible taxation increases on somebody else.
It lasts until the next manifesto is launched. Not a nanosecond longer.
And Labour are currently so far behind that launching policies even their own shadow ministers don't understand (admittedly as @Roger noted upthread, possibly the least distinguished set of nonentities since Derby's Who? Who? Ministry of 1852 and arguably since Pitt's famous first cabinet of 1783 when it was famously said the only notable achievement any of them had was the ability to imbibe vast amounts of alcohol) is not likely to make a sufficient difference to make them a political force again.0 -
The problem is that the Overton window has shifted massively since then and Labour haven't laid the groundwork to try and move it back.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/
I wonder if this manifesto has been leaked by the moderates to put pressure on to tone it down. As it stands, this manifesto makes it so easy for the Tories:
In Brexitland, the message is Labour wants open borders and are weak on defence
In London, I expect we'll see "Labour's tax bombshell" wheeled out again.
I expect bicycling vegans who live in Islington will be delighted but middle England will be horrified.0 -
Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."0 -
Are all the manifestoes out yet ?0
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I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
0 -
Along with everything else, Macron appears to be a rather accomplished pianist:
http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/05/09/527577050/something-you-didnt-know-about-emmanuel-macron-hes-a-pianist0 -
+1bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
Finally, a real Labour manifesto. Not a fan of Corbyn - nice guy but not a leader. If the messenger was different it could be game on...0 -
Whatever you think of Corbyn we're still facing the challenge of how to make a modern market economy work. The Tories haven't exactly proved too successful on that front either.DavidL said:
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.0 -
I was going to say that they might have been more entertaining but that would in fairness be unfair to Abbott.ydoethur said:
It is not hard to imagine that the performances of Abbott, Long-Bailey, Rayner and Burgon would be considerably less inept and embarrassing if they were wasted during their interviews. At least they wouldn't say enough to cause a catastrophe!DavidL said:
If I was in the Shadow Cabinet responsible for putting this nonsense forward imbibing vast quantities of alcohol would be a rational response.ydoethur said:
No.murali_s said:
Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Every party gets a bounce after their manifesto launch where they promise motherhood, apple pie andfree moneyrealistic and costed spending proposals paid for by sensible taxation increases on somebody else.
It lasts until the next manifesto is launched. Not a nanosecond longer.
And Labour are currently so far behind that launching policies even their own shadow ministers don't understand (admittedly as @Roger noted upthread, possibly the least distinguished set of nonentities since Derby's Who? Who? Ministry of 1852 and arguably since Pitt's famous first cabinet of 1783 when it was famously said the only notable achievement any of them had was the ability to imbibe vast amounts of alcohol) is not likely to make a sufficient difference to make them a political force again.0 -
And what do we get from the tories? - same old sh*t where the wealthy and powerful can do whaever and the rest of us get scrwewed.chestnut said:
I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
0 -
His increasingly odd antics are hanging the Republicans out to dry, he got into power by being anti-politics but the problem is that it turns out not being like all the other evil politicians out there meant he was a clueless loony rather than JFK's wayward son.bobajobPB said:Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."0 -
That was something Not The Nine O'Clock News would have been proud of!DavidL said:
I was going to say that they might have been more entertaining but that would in fairness be unfair to Abbott.ydoethur said:
It is not hard to imagine that the performances of Abbott, Long-Bailey, Rayner and Burgon would be considerably less inept and embarrassing if they were wasted during their interviews. At least they wouldn't say enough to cause a catastrophe!DavidL said:
If I was in the Shadow Cabinet responsible for putting this nonsense forward imbibing vast quantities of alcohol would be a rational response.ydoethur said:
No.murali_s said:
Some populist measures in there. I expect a modest Labour bounce after manifesto launch, but will it least till polling day. Time weill tell as ever...FrancisUrquhart said:As I predicted weeks ago, tuition fees are going to under the supreme leader....
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Apparently they are going to claim all this 70s left wingery will be fully paid for by simple increase in corporation and inheritance tax....Yeah course it will.
Every party gets a bounce after their manifesto launch where they promise motherhood, apple pie andfree moneyrealistic and costed spending proposals paid for by sensible taxation increases on somebody else.
It lasts until the next manifesto is launched. Not a nanosecond longer.
And Labour are currently so far behind that launching policies even their own shadow ministers don't understand (admittedly as @Roger noted upthread, possibly the least distinguished set of nonentities since Derby's Who? Who? Ministry of 1852 and arguably since Pitt's famous first cabinet of 1783 when it was famously said the only notable achievement any of them had was the ability to imbibe vast amounts of alcohol) is not likely to make a sufficient difference to make them a political force again.
Good night all.0 -
A message that appeals to 45% of the electorate apparently, millions of whom will not be the wealthy and powerful. Funny old world.murali_s said:
And what do we get from the tories? - same old sh*t where the wealthy and powerful can do whaever and the rest of us get scrwewed.chestnut said:
I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
0 -
Could bring wavering labour heartlands back on board - labour back over 30% ?chestnut said:
I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
0 -
Attempting to rerun the failed policies of the 70s is definitely not the answer. There are lots of radical things you could do, but this is just as is Jezza all the stuff he will believe in to the day he dies no matter how much it shows it has failed. There isn't even a modern twist on it, it is literally photocopied 70s left wing policy document.murali_s said:
And what do we get from the tories? - same old sh*t where the wealthy and powerful can do whaever and the rest of us get scrwewed.chestnut said:
I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
0 -
Hopefully the Labour manifesto will come in a looseleaf binder so it can be updated daily as the rolling manifesto kicks in !!0
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Yep, First Class to the lifeboats, Steerage to the bottom of the Atlantic, sounds about right.ydoethur said:
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.0 -
41% of London voters want Jeremy Corbyn as commander-in-chief. Just think about that for a moment or two.0
-
No shit! Astonishing that they are only starting to have concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness now.bobajobPB said:Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."0 -
Disagree. Our living standards continue to improve despite the consequences of the odd Labour government (none as odd as the current shower of course) . The market economy continues to work for us all albeit to very different extents. The increase in inequality is an increasing concern and is potentially destabilising but as a method of wealth creation it has yet to be beaten.FrankBooth said:
Whatever you think of Corbyn we're still facing the challenge of how to make a modern market economy work. The Tories haven't exactly proved too successful on that front either.DavidL said:
No, it just ignores all the painful and expensive lessons of the last 40 years.justin124 said:
Renationalizing the industries privatised by Tory Governments since the mid-80s hardly amounts to Communism . The logic of claiming otherwise would imply that Heath - Macmillan - Eden -Churchill et al were dangerous Reds.kle4 said:Honestly, given how extreme Corbyn appears, by comparison it doesn't really shock me, this supposed manifesto. The Tories have already prepared me for anything, up to full on communism.
He's not had a terrible start to his campaign really - especially as compared to his shadow cabinet/0 -
But if Jezza had been on the Titanic he could have walked all those passengers over the water to safety.ydoethur said:
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.0 -
The Labour manifesto is being trailed early to get tomorrows headlines, the problem is that I doubt it has in any way been costed or structured properly.
There will be no contingencies for the costs of doing any new policies as of course nationalising the railways will be cost free (apart from setting up something to run the damn things of course, also sorting out the ROSCO's etc etc), it will be overly optimistic on tax take, it will assume very low borrowing costs....whilst endlessly borrowing funds etc etc. This is what happens when you only speak to people you agree with, a plan that has holes.0 -
Magnificent!bigjohnowls said:
But if Jezza had been on the Titanic he could have walked all those passengers over the water to safety.ydoethur said:
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.
Have a good evening.0 -
I used to confuse Pacific with specific. When I was about 5 years old.Nemtynakht said:
I heard Angela Rayner use lickle instead of little and Pacific instead of specific in a Radio 4 interview. She is now shadow education secretary. Rolls eyes.Roger said:OT. This must be the weakest shadow cabinet in living memory. Every spokesperson makes you cringe. I'm not sure they were brains of Britain before the mass resignations but since they've become a horror show.
0 -
If Jezza had been on the Titanic the Maomentum crowd would have successfully wished the iceberg out of existence. How can you believe otherwise.bigjohnowls said:
But if Jezza had been on the Titanic he could have walked all those passengers over the water to safety.ydoethur said:
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.0 -
As Einstein didn't famously say...
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Jezza's manifesto is just that doing it all over again expecting a different result..0 -
They were warned!FF43 said:
No shit! Astonishing that they are only starting to have concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness now.bobajobPB said:Another nibble on a good day for the PB Trumptons:
Trump's approval rating has plummeted to a near-record low of 36%, according to a new Quinnipac University poll.
Crucially, the president lost significant support among key demographics - white voters with no college degree, white men, and independent voters, the poll found.
"There is no way to spin or sugarcoat these sagging numbers," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The erosion of white men, white voters without college degrees and independent voters, the declaration by voters that President Donald Trump's first 100 days were mainly a failure and deepening concerns about Trump's honesty, intelligence and level-headedness are red flags that the administration simply can't brush away."0 -
Have to admit free tuition fees, nationalised rail, nationalised mail & a decent home building program do have a bit of appeal...0
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They would have got a tweet of jazz hands "appaulase" gif trending by retweeting it and that would have moved the iceberg out of the way.DavidL said:
If Jezza had been on the Titanic the Maomentum crowd would have successfully wished the iceberg out of existence. How can you believe otherwise.bigjohnowls said:
But if Jezza had been on the Titanic he could have walked all those passengers over the water to safety.ydoethur said:
Can I be first to point out that meme about the Titanic earlier on (that it was strong and stable 'until it hit the iceberg') is wrong?bigjohnowls said:
Go back to your darkened room and say strong and stable 3000 timesFrancisUrquhart said:And here I was thinking the Green Party proposals with their 4 day week and Universal Basic Pay were a bit nutty.....
Green Party are going to get seriously squeezed though by the Supreme Leader.
I promise you will feel better
It was stable even after it sank. It was still upright as it submerged.
Makes you wonder a bit about whether it might prove an eerily perfect metaphor. Even if Brexit is the equivalent of the Titanic's famously one-sided contest with that iceberg, the government will surely survive it given what is about to happen to Labour.0 -
There is actually some decent stuff in the Labour manifesto. Renationalising energy and ploughing its surpluses into renewables can certainly be defended. It makes more sense than May's halfway house price cap in many respects. Renationalising rail is wise - franchising doesn't work, indeed many of the best railways in the UK are those in the public sector. There's no way to defend the existing system where - outside London - trains can only be nationalised to foreign governments but not our own.0
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Who'd have guessed Donald Trump would turn into Kim Jong-il? They say power corrups but not that it turns you barking mad. I think Stanley Kubrick showed great prescience when he made Dr Strangelove.0
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His vision, combined with May's, almost renders all the others as irrelevant.Tykejohnno said:
Could bring wavering labour heartlands back on board - labour back over 30% ?chestnut said:
I've got a peculiar feeling it will work well for him. Not with Tories, but with the 'progressive alliance'.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
That could be 35% of the electorate.SquareRoot said:
...to be crucified at the polls.. bring it on. Noone believes this batshit is affordable, bar the loonies.timmo said:
This is the moment in all of his political life he has been waiting for.. sod the partySimonStClare said:
There is no party to the left of that manifesto. – crazy stuff.chestnut said:Jezza will obliterate Labour's opposition parties on the left with that manifesto. Even Castro couldn't outflank him on the left.
There are only two serious choices in the election.
The SNP may argue they are a third, but Corbyn can hardly be accused of being a 'RedTory' - he's miles to the left of the SNP.0 -
But I don't think we have the money to do that lot with Brexit and all
0
