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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay’s over-blown anti-Brussels rhetoric might boost her suppo

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101
    Scott_P said:

    Lib Dem
    Thanks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098

    Or Lamb.

    But voting LD in this election does have some modest benefit even if unlikely to win your constituency.

    Green voters shifted mainstream parties agenda in the nineties, and so did the kippers in the noughties. Politicians go where the votes are, albeit grudingly, slowly and eventually.

    Vote for sane centrism, vote for positive internationalism, vote LD.
    Saved deposits !
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Or Lamb.

    But voting LD in this election does have some modest benefit even if unlikely to win your constituency.

    Green voters shifted mainstream parties agenda in the nineties, and so did the kippers in the noughties. Politicians go where the votes are, albeit grudingly, slowly and eventually.

    Vote for sane centrism, vote for positive internationalism, vote LD.
    Where are you standing? :)
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited May 2017
    One of the BBC's EU correspondents earlier said that nobody in Europe was bothered by May's speech; they know that she has an election to win, and they know that a bit of EU bashing will help her. I heard Barnier say in his speech that the EU approves of the election as it wants to deal with a UK government with a decent majority, to avoid parliamentary hold ups outside the discussions.

    Is there any chance that Juncker's leak, and May's speech, were planned at the dinner?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,127

    Cannock has architecture??? We are not talking about Hilton Park Services on the M6 are we?
    It has the Prince of Wales Theatre, which must be a profound embarrassment to HRH. Also Chase Leisure Centre.

    Otherwise umm, no, not really.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    surbiton said:

    Sorry ! I confused with another Beverly who is an LD member.
    :+1:
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.
    She could end up winning by >20 points.

    I wouldn't bet on it, but she's got a chance. The ICM unadjusted is turning out +21.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,596
    edited May 2017

    Very different styles of debate though - reminds me of Clegg and Farage in the 2014 EU debates. Both accomplished debaters but in very different ways.
    Yeah, he wants to be careful about being too assertive though. It might feel good, and he might walk off feeling smug, but when he sees les resultats he might not feel so good.

    It's not always a good idea to appear the smartest kid in the class, even if you are.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,127

    Yes - and with TM on record as saying she'd be willing to launch a nuclear first strike, he may well be the safer option as well as the saner one.
    We'd be safer with a man who has backed terrorism against a woman who has said she might under unusual circumstances use nuclear weapons? It's a point of view I suppose.

    Nick, you really need to move on. You made an appalling mistake and elected an utterly loathsome cretin who is about to finally destroy Labour. Well, we all mistakes. But trying to justify it simply makes it worse.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MsHelicat: Thursday's i: EU trying to rig election, warns May #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/859857989012008960/photo/1
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017
    This pensions talk is crucial. They are the largest and importantly most on-the-fence part of the french electorate in this election;

    https://alexandreafonso.me/2017/04/30/the-social-basis-of-marine-le-pen-and-emmanuel-macron/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    One of the BBC's EU correspondents earlier said that nobody in Europe was bothered by May's speech; they know that she has an election to win...

    Is there any chance that Juncker's leak, and May's speech, were planned at the dinner?

    Sounds pretty sensible, though I doubt they would outright plan such a back and forth - if we were able to coordinate so amicably, we wouldn't be leaving in the first place. More likely May and negotiators are simply not as prissy as UK commenters are about the comments, even if they disapprove.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Le Pen is a master in pissing off her opponents. A useful talent. Macron is getting very agitated, it brings out his 'incredulous elitist' side. But he's not failing miserably either so I don't see this being a game changer.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    We'd be safer with a man who has backed terrorism against a woman who has said she might under unusual circumstances use nuclear weapons? It's a point of view I suppose.

    Nick, you really need to move on. You made an appalling mistake and elected an utterly loathsome cretin who is about to finally destroy Labour. Well, we all mistakes. But trying to justify it simply makes it worse.
    Nick is a secular Vicar of Bray.
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198
    ydoethur said:

    Surely the point is only a smallish minority of over-60s went to university at all, and a large proportion will not have O-levels or A-levels, rather CSEs. Moreover, I think I am right in saying most universities down to the 1980s prioritised the liberal arts rather than STEM subjects? A lot of the tech (such as it was) and engineering would have been through polys, surely?
    Polytechnics were safety nets for people who couldn't get into University - at my school we were advised to include one on our UCCA forms. Nowadays they are counted as real universities where uneducated kids listen to lectures by left-wing professors for the 2 days a week when they have courses for their degrees - and then those here on PB are surprised that the young are so much for remain/labour.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2017
    Monaco vs Juventus is a cracking match. A masterpiece of Italian defending and French flair.

    Tis a bit of poor scheduling of the debate. There must be some audience crossover, particularly in Provence.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017
    Shut up about b****y "projects", jeez.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,320
    ydoethur said:

    We'd be safer with a man who has backed terrorism against a woman who has said she might under unusual circumstances use nuclear weapons? It's a point of view I suppose.

    Nick, you really need to move on. You made an appalling mistake and elected an utterly loathsome cretin who is about to finally destroy Labour. Well, we all mistakes. But trying to justify it simply makes it worse.
    You know a week ago I would have agreed with you but after the last week I think Nick was correct. Corbyn is what is says on the tin. He's straight and by his own lights principled. May by contrast is showing herself to be the worst sort of opportunist. Self regarding and Iago like in the damage she'll inflict for her own ends
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Scott_P said:

    @MsHelicat: Thursday's i: EU trying to rig election, warns May #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/859857989012008960/photo/1

    Surely "influence" not "rig".

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Polytechnics were safety nets for people who couldn't get into University - at my school we were advised to include one on our UCCA forms. Nowadays they are counted as real universities where uneducated kids listen to lectures by left-wing professors for the 2 days a week when they have courses for their degrees - and then those here on PB are surprised that the young are so much for remain/labour.
    Polys had a seperate application process to UCCA as I recall.

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,596

    Monaco vs Juventus is a cracking match. A masterpiece of Italian defending and French flair.

    Tis a bit of poor scheduling of the debate. There must be some audience crossover, particularly in Provence.

    Yes, I can just see the good people of Provence mulling that one over: 'Football, debate....football, debate.....hmmmmm.'

    Tough one....non.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    Polytechnics were safety nets for people who couldn't get into University - at my school we were advised to include one on our UCCA forms. Nowadays they are counted as real universities where uneducated kids listen to lectures by left-wing professors for the 2 days a week when they have courses for their degrees - and then those here on PB are surprised that the young are so much for remain/labour.
    I sometimes feel I missed out on these rabid lefty academics that seems so common - I don't think I can recall an incident which revealed the political affiliation of any of my lecturers.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Macron very rattled again. Poor on security, poor on employment. It's only taxes where he seems comfortable.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    Just praying that Macron doesn't do an "Annie Power"...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @YvetteCooperMP: Theresa May's Attack On The EU Is Not A Stable Or Strong Thing For A Prime Minister To Do. My piece for @HuffPostUK http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/16407580
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Yes, I can just see the good people of Provence mulling that one over: 'Football, debate....football, debate.....hmmmmm.'

    Tough one....non.
    Footy for me...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    perdix said:

    Surely "influence" not "rig".

    Making her claim seem more extreme makes it easier to criticise.

    Not necessary as it was overblown anywhere, but expect all the papers to have no perspective on this. That one is positively restrained compared to what I expect is coming.
  • kle4 said:

    Realistically, what's the high mark Le Pen should be aiming for in round 2? Into the low 40s?

    Up to the mid-forties .... well 44.99% to be precise, so as to deliver my bet!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:

    @YvetteCooperMP: Theresa May's Attack On The EU Is Not A Stable Or Strong Thing For A Prime Minister To Do. My piece for @HuffPostUK http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/16407580

    Is Cooper on manoeuvres ?
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198

    Polys had a seperate application process to UCCA as I recall.

    My application was in 1979 - things may have changed before or after, but I remember the discussion with the Headmaster and Careers teacher and at no time did they mention a separate application (it might I suppose have been a separate section of the application form - but since Newcastle University was my safety net, I don't remember).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    You know a week ago I would have agreed with you but after the last week I think Nick was correct. Corbyn is what is says on the tin. He's straight and by his own lights principled. May by contrast is showing herself to be the worst sort of opportunist. Self regarding and Iago like in the damage she'll inflict for her own ends
    Jezza in charge must surely be what the establishment fears the most.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Footy for me...
    Wise choice. Your boy's getting caned.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Polys had a seperate application process to UCCA as I recall.

    Pcas I believe
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    There seems to be a big problem with schedulers putting election debates on at the same time as big football matches. I seem to recall a similar thing happening here in 2015.
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198

    Wise choice. Your boy's getting caned.
    Well he is on Breitbart - hoping for some neutral opinions here.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    The eu-sual suspects:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-eu-sual-suspects-who-might-the-pm-think-is-meddling-theresa-may?

    Though I think Barnier has played a pretty straight bat.....
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 685
    For the first time in a decade I am unsure if I will vote tomorrow and for who. Naturally Tory but would like to go back to lib dems. No lib dem leaflet and they are non existent here. Good Tory leaflet which completely ignores brexit and tm. She is pretty toxic up here. In a quandary.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Wise choice. Your boy's getting caned.
    Nah, I am on Juve to win the CL. I love the dark arts of Italian defending and who couldn't support them against Real Madrid?
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198
    midwinter said:

    Pcas I believe
    Looked it up - 1986 - 1992 after my time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnics_Central_Admissions_System
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    bobajobPB said:

    There seems to be a big problem with schedulers putting election debates on at the same time as big football matches. I seem to recall a similar thing happening here in 2015.

    I'm sure the debate will be on in all the bars in France.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    Jezza in charge must surely be what the establishment fears the most.
    If such a thing as 'the establishment' exists, it would fear it for a good reason. May could be bad but it would be within understandable ranges, Corbyn goes well beyond it. Trump, only with less charisma (and being personally more pleasant and polite, as well as consistent)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    perdix said:

    Surely "influence" not "rig".

    It's a headline 'influence' is three times longer
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    For the first time in a decade I am unsure if I will vote tomorrow and for who. Naturally Tory but would like to go back to lib dems. No lib dem leaflet and they are non existent here. Good Tory leaflet which completely ignores brexit and tm. She is pretty toxic up here. In a quandary.

    You can safely vote Tory in the locals to stuff Nicola. The general is more tricky
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2017
    Macron is getting absolutely caned. He wouldn't survive this in Britain. She's Corbynising him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    For the first time in a decade I am unsure if I will vote tomorrow and for who. Naturally Tory but would like to go back to lib dems. No lib dem leaflet and they are non existent here. Good Tory leaflet which completely ignores brexit and tm. She is pretty toxic up here. In a quandary.

    Tough situation. I feel in a national campaign I can, even in the absence of a leaflet (and thus effort) justifiably judge things on the national picture as the most relevant issue, but for locals I feel like they need to explain why they are best in the specific area a lot more. But if the other options are tough, it could be awkward.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    Is using the Trump/OK/666 hand sign a new thing for Macron?
    chestnut said:

    Macron is getting absolutely caned. He wouldn't survive this in Britain. She's Corbynising him.

    Indeed. He will lose points, but how many?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    I sometimes feel I missed out on these rabid lefty academics that seems so common - I don't think I can recall an incident which revealed the political affiliation of any of my lecturers.

    I do. Not during my undergraduate course but in my postgraduate course some lecturers were very political; but the fact that there was a strike and pickets that year by lecturers was a background that encouraged them to reveal their politics perhaps more than normal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1454155/University-lecturers-to-strike-over-pay.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,127
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nick is a secular Vicar of Bray.
    And Jez his lawful King shall be...until the times do alter!
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    Wise choice. Your boy's getting caned.
    Are you predicting a Le Pen victory on Sunday Monica?
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Nah, I am on Juve to win the CL. I love the dark arts of Italian defending and who couldn't support them against Real Madrid?
    La Signora's winning.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    The UCCA and Poly applications were separate. I applied to both Universities and Polys. Had embarrassing interview at Central London Poly, when asked I admitted that I had applied for University. The tutor, then said don't worry I gave the same advice to my daughter.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,283
    edited May 2017
    I'm not sure what to think about the recent spats with the EU. I do think May went a bit too far today. But then, it was a low blow to leak the "living in a different galaxy" stuff. I suspect this is all brinkmanship before the negotiations start, but it does show that they will be bitter and all the mood music that everyone just wants an amicable split seems to be on the wane.

    I voted remain in the referendum, but somewhat reluctantly. I felt, on balance, that remain was the right choice. But I have always been deeply concerned by the EUs lack of accountability and its seeming disregard for nation state democracy. Whilst I would be a keener supporter of a more accountable, democratic EU, I do feel there is very little chance of that coming about due to the entrenched position of those who wield power in Brussels.

    I'm one of those people who was initially disappointed by the result, but who feels that it's now important to move on and make the best of it. I also think there needs to be some element of a clean break - a soft Brexit appears to me to be such an unattractive halfway house that you might as well remain in the club.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm concerned, but open-minded. It remains to be seen how well the Tories will handle Brexit negotiations - it's been a mixed bag so far. But I genuinely can't see any realistic alternative at the moment, so they've definitely got my vote this time. May does appear at least to be taking the pragmatic approach that I think is probably needed.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Looked it up - 1986 - 1992 after my time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnics_Central_Admissions_System
    Polys were not in UCCA prior to that. I did my UCCA form in '82.

    UCCA stood for Universities Central Council on Admissions as I recall, and Polys were not Universities, though some have become quite good universities since.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited May 2017
    @RobDotHutton: After Spain and Belgium, which European country should the Tories declare war on next? YOU DECIDE!

    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/859810134503063557
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,381

    Jezza in charge must surely be what the establishment fears the most.
    It's also what not the Establishment fears most.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    And that the fight wasn't started by us.

    I've always taken a mild view of May - calm manner uited to difficult times, pity about her policies. But she's starting to sound alarmingly egomaniacal, in a very un-British sort of way.
    Considering May has spoken after days of reporting initiated by Juncker and followed up by Barnier and others ... I doubt anyone would think that it was a fight started by us.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    I do. Not during my undergraduate course but in my postgraduate course some lecturers were very political; but the fact that there was a strike and pickets that year by lecturers was a background that encouraged them to reveal their politics perhaps more than normal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1454155/University-lecturers-to-strike-over-pay.html
    Oh the stereotype is so prevalent, and left leaningness known to be the case, that I don't doubt it happens, but I don't recall a lick of it. There was a lecturers strike one year, but I didn't really pay attention to it, which might have revealed more.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    bobajobPB said:

    Are you predicting a Le Pen victory on Sunday Monica?
    If she wasn't carrying the baggage of the name of her party and her father, she would win this at a canter in Britain.

    He's a throwback to Blair, a fifth rate Cameron.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Polys had a seperate application process to UCCA as I recall.

    PCAS. They merged in 1993.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MattSingh_: Rumours circulating of a poll of one or more of tomorrow's mayoral elections being imminent. Haven't been able to confirm #SuperThursday
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198
    edited May 2017
    chestnut said:

    Macron is getting absolutely caned. He wouldn't survive this in Britain. She's Corbynising him.

    So basically what happens when a neophyte politician comes up against an experienced one?

    Didn't he threaten to walk out if his safe space was invaded?

    https://twitter.com/BFMTV/status/859402583580049408

    "I like the Franglais - le punching-ball"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,381
    Scott_P said:

    @RobDotHutton: After Spain and Belgium, which European country should the Tories declare war on next? YOU DECIDE!

    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/859810134503063557

    Nuke Berlin till it glows.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Bloody hell Macron is poor,how the hell has he let Le pen be the defender of the Jews/homosexuality.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,972

    I do. Not during my undergraduate course but in my postgraduate course some lecturers were very political; but the fact that there was a strike and pickets that year by lecturers was a background that encouraged them to reveal their politics perhaps more than normal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1454155/University-lecturers-to-strike-over-pay.html
    The economics lectures I had at business school over twenty years ago from a young Evan Davis were the most rabidly anti-EU polemics I have ever encountered. But it didn't rub off on me, and it seems since to have rubbed at least a little off him.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Looked it up - 1986 - 1992 after my time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytechnics_Central_Admissions_System
    After mine as well. However I would say that for some applied science courses, Polys were better than a lot of Unis
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    They are both basically telling the other one to shut up at this point. The tone of the debate has actually been worse than that of Trump/Clinton. At the end of one of those debates, the candidates managed to say something nice about each other. I would be interested to see them ask the same question after this one.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    chestnut said:

    Macron is getting absolutely caned. He wouldn't survive this in Britain. She's Corbynising him.

    Yeah, he's better sticking to economics.
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198

    Bloody hell Macron is poor,how the hell has he let Le pen be the defender of the Jews/homosexuality.

    Well he obviously supports jews as much as Corbyn - left-wing anti-semitism comes out in more than one country - and that jibe abbout supporting an anti-homosexual, anti semitic organisation hit home..

    (How many jews have left france in the last few years?)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    Scott_P said:

    @MattSingh_: Rumours circulating of a poll of one or more of tomorrow's mayoral elections being imminent. Haven't been able to confirm #SuperThursday

    West Midlands, surely. That's THE mayoral election of tommorow.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sean_F said:

    Nuke Berlin till it glows.
    I like the cut of your jib.

    "Robot" and "doesn't talk to public" failed yesterday, "mad warmonger" failing today. Pitiful.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    edited May 2017


    "I like the Franglais - le punching-ball"

    Is this what the Republic has come to, presidential candidates using english loan words?!

    Am I right in thinking Macron was not fantastic in the other debate either? Seems like be it policies or baggage will mean Le Pen has very little chance of winning though.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    chestnut said:

    If she wasn't carrying the baggage of the name of her party and her father, she would win this at a canter in Britain.

    He's a throwback to Blair, a fifth rate Cameron.
    I'm watching the football, like most people, so wouldn't know. I'd like to think the UK wouldn't elect a neo fascist on the basis of one debate, but given recent trends, you might be right.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    chestnut said:

    If she wasn't carrying the baggage of the name of her party and her father, she would win this at a canter in Britain.

    He's a throwback to Blair, a fifth rate Cameron.
    If she wasn't carrying the name of her party and her father she likely wouldn't even be in the race at all.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Scott_P said:

    @RobDotHutton: After Spain and Belgium, which European country should the Tories declare war on next? YOU DECIDE!

    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/859810134503063557

    Surprised to see Iceland winning that so far
    I voted Germany. It's the traditionalist in me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    Scott_P said:

    @MattSingh_: Rumours circulating of a poll of one or more of tomorrow's mayoral elections being imminent. Haven't been able to confirm #SuperThursday

    Liverpool going Tory!
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    Macron is continually accusing Le Pen of lying...without appreciable effect, other than looking defensive.

    They are both playing the Algerian war card now. She started it. He said he wants to look to the future. But then he mentions the Vel d'Hiv round up. I think he's on very weak ground when the reference is to past (and continuing) divisions in France.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    GeoffM said:

    Surprised to see Iceland winning that so far
    I voted Germany. It's the traditionalist in me.
    I refused to vote - it didn't give me the choice of Moldova. So small and unnoticed, what are they up to, I don't trust 'em.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,127

    Polytechnics were safety nets for people who couldn't get into University - at my school we were advised to include one on our UCCA forms. Nowadays they are counted as real universities where uneducated kids listen to lectures by left-wing professors for the 2 days a week when they have courses for their degrees - and then those here on PB are surprised that the young are so much for remain/labour.

    I'm not convinced by your reasoning. In 1992 there were around 90,000 degrees awarded by full universities, compared with 110,000 awarded by polys, which specifically existed to promote technical education especially in engineering. Even if we assume a third of all university candidates failed or dropped out - and I know that the failure rate was higher then than it is now, but that seems very high - and all poly candidates got qualifications, the numbers are still roughly equal. So that suggests they were a bit more than just a safety net for people lacking the intellectual heft for universities (like say Corbyn) even if as you say, and which appears to be disputed, they had the same application process.

    Your comment on left-wing lecturers is also I would suggest wrong. You will find huge numbers of left-wingers in the red bricks and Oxbridge, and you will find plenty of right wingers in the former polys. Oxford Brookes, which until recent cuts had a history faculty that actually ranked above that of its more famous neighbour, has a head of department who considered Cameron a dangerous liberal. You might also be surprised to learn that more contact time is often required in the ex-polys for degree courses, although admittedly the students are on average less intelligent and may need it more.

    You may find this of interest:
    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04252/SN04252.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    kle4 said:

    Liverpool going Tory!
    Good lord no, I have backed Rotheram there at 1-10.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Cyan said:

    Macron is continually accusing Le Pen of lying...without appreciable effect, other than looking defensive.

    They are both playing the Algerian war card now. She started it. He said he wants to look to the future. But then he mentions the Vel d'Hiv round up. I think he's on very weak ground when the reference is to past (and continuing) divisions in France.

    Im just watching them having an argument about who was responsible for Vichy France.. pretty astonishing stuff.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    No. UK Border control is useless, they'll disperse.
    We charge Eurostar £10,000 for every passenger without papers who gets on one of their trains. That will stop the flow.

    The fact they are majority owned by the French government is an ancillary benefit
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    Pulpstar said:

    Good lord no, I have backed Rotheram there at 1-10.
    I think your money is pretty safe.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Pulpstar said:

    Good lord no, I have backed Rotheram there at 1-10.
    Maybe Burnham in trouble?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Blue_rog said:

    After mine as well. However I would say that for some applied science courses, Polys were better than a lot of Unis
    Polys were aimed at more technical subjects. Leicester Poly used to do a lot of textile related degrees, and is still strong in design and fashion as De Montfort University. It has expanded and broadened though.

    Not much rag trade left in Leicester to employ textile grads nowadays.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    GeoffM said:

    Surprised to see Iceland winning that so far
    I voted Germany. It's the traditionalist in me.
    You start small and work your way up. Liechtenstein would be a good warm-up.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Cyan said:

    Macron is continually accusing Le Pen of lying...without appreciable effect, other than looking defensive.

    They are both playing the Algerian war card now. She started it. He said he wants to look to the future. But then he mentions the Vel d'Hiv round up. I think he's on very weak ground when the reference is to past (and continuing) divisions in France.

    A debacle for Macron. He's been found out and is in deep shit.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    bobajobPB said:

    I'm watching the football, like most people, so wouldn't know. I'd like to think the UK wouldn't elect a neo fascist on the basis of one debate, but given recent trends, you might be right.
    Neo-fascist...islamist sympathiser.....what a choice they are presented with on the basis of this debate.
  • Barnesian said:

    The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.

    EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
    In the same way that you cant help being a grade A Pr!ck ??
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,972
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    I refused to vote - it didn't give me the choice of Moldova. So small and unnoticed, what are they up to, I don't trust 'em.
    People are picking fights they think we might actually win. Unlike our PM.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,440
    Pulpstar said:

    West Midlands, surely. That's THE mayoral election of tommorow.
    Wasn't there discussion about some (Sky ?) poll earlier suggesting up to 10 Conservatives gains in the West Midlands ?

    This might be it..

    Or perhaps not.

    Though if there is a Mayoral poll they've left it late.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    My God Macron talking about an extra 10000 police in France.. I hope he hasn't been talking to Dianne
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    AndyJS said:

    What time is the YoiuGov poll released?

    i haven't been polled by You gov yet.. rather surprising that they haven't checked my VI /that I am still alive!!!
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Good lord no, I have backed Rotheram there at 1-10.
    Er no. Don't worry!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    timmo said:

    Maybe Burnham in trouble?

    Extremely unlikely but would be hilarious to see him lose having stood down from Leigh already.
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198
    Hiring 10,000 police seems to be an international plan in elections.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Blue_rog said:

    After mine as well. However I would say that for some applied science courses, Polys were better than a lot of Unis
    Mine was the last year of split forms.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Hiring 10,000 police seems to be an international plan in elections.

    He hasn't mentioned money yet..

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    IanB2 said:

    People are picking fights they think we might actually win. Unlike our PM.
    She didn't pick the fight, she's making use of it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,127

    Hiring 10,000 police seems to be an international plan in elections.

    Is he offering to pay them more than €40 per annum though? Because if not I can't help but feel his recruitment target would be optimistic!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,320
    edited May 2017

    Monaco vs Juventus is a cracking match. A masterpiece of Italian defending and French flair.

    Tis a bit of poor scheduling of the debate. There must be some audience crossover, particularly in Provence.

    I went to the Monaco v Man City game and Monaco were a very good side. Their pitch is above a car park so a thin layer of grass and then concrete. The City players were skidding around like they were on an ice rink. In the second half they got the hang of it and outplayed them and should have won.
This discussion has been closed.