Stuff like that makes the argument the EU and the EU27 are fools who respond to the last thing they heard and nothing else matters. And that's Donald Trump's thing.
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
At least we have George Osborne to keep TMay on her toes moving forward.
Yes, there will be more telling critiques from that quarter than the shadow cabinet (which sets an unfairly low bar).
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
You want her to be a doormat in the entrance to 10 Downing Street?
Your nervousness is showing through - that our Prime Minister might have nicely judged the national mood to political advantage....
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see a Prime Minster easily rattled. That does make me nervous.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
You want her to be a doormat in the entrance to 10 Downing Street?
Your nervousness is showing through - that our Prime Minister might have nicely judged the national mood to political advantage....
Why are people so shocked that TMay can do politics. Have they forgotten she was the person who told the Tories they are the nasty party and then took on the vested interests I'm the police.
She did bellicosity against both her own party, and against the Police, but what real change in either did she achieve? not much that I can see in either.
Apart from 7 years of no Labour govt and 45% in the polls ? Not much...
The more chilling (and more likely) thought is that the Eurocrats are indifferent to the impact on the UK's general election. If that's a second or third order consideration, it implies that the Eurocrats have more important considerations. None of those more possible important considerations support the idea that a good deal is going to be done.
And if that is the case TMay's bellicose remarks are irrelevant, neither a grand victory nor a grand disaster, as the stage will already have been set.
Yes, I think the chances of a good deal more or less evaporated some time ago (the Tory party conference was probably the last decent chance).
Stuff like that makes the argument the EU and the EU27 are fools who respond to the last thing they heard and nothing else matters. And that's Donald Trump's thing.
Tezza did it today.
No she didn't unless you are arguing she has altered her entire strategy re the negotiations based off the leak against her.
I'm talking about shifts in position, not lashing out, the two can happen at the same time but are not the same thing. Have we altered position? We were resisting their demands and trying to cherry pick, and we still are, officially, aren't we?
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
It reminds people of Thatcher and not in a good way. The downside from her point of view is that it'll galvanise a progressive alliance against her. I don't think wrapping yourself in the flag is in keeping with to days zeitgeist. Certainly not with Remainers or young people.
Hmm. Dunno. The "Queen of little england" thing should be enough to get her >45% of the vote.
She's not even trying to win remainers or young people. She's calculated we don't matter.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
You want her to be a doormat in the entrance to 10 Downing Street?
Your nervousness is showing through - that our Prime Minister might have nicely judged the national mood to political advantage....
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see a Prime Minster easily rattled. That does make me nervous.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
You want her to be a doormat in the entrance to 10 Downing Street?
Your nervousness is showing through - that our Prime Minister might have nicely judged the national mood to political advantage....
Why are people so shocked that TMay can do politics. Have they forgotten she was the person who told the Tories they are the nasty party and then took on the vested interests I'm the police.
She did bellicosity against both her own party, and against the Police, but what real change in either did she achieve? not much that I can see in either.
Arguably, her "Nasty Party" speech of 2002 laid the groundwork for David Cameron to become leader to detoxify the brand, a job that David Davis was thought not capable of doing. So, yes, she did help achieve real change.
I also heard a former Chief Constable on WatO yesterday saying that yes, the police had over-egged their case. She got them to wind their necks back in.
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
That theory may be about to be tested to destruction.
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
At least we have George Osborne to keep TMay on her toes moving forward.
Yeah! in a free newspaper that's only read by London commuters and only taken seriously by deluded remaindermen.
I suspect Osborne is just trying to bed into the job and curry favour with the readership. It will be leading up until the GE in June when we will see whether he is ditching politics. I don't think he will be.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
It's not remotely statesmanlike.
You want her to be a doormat in the entrance to 10 Downing Street?
Your nervousness is showing through - that our Prime Minister might have nicely judged the national mood to political advantage....
I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see a Prime Minster easily rattled. That does make me nervous.
And you were such a fan before too....
Well FWIW before she became PM I regularly tipped her here for Tory leader arguing her party owed her a lot.
But she definitely betrayed a lack of confidence today. She has her weaknesses. She reminds me of Brown.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
A little bit of Jingoism never did anyone any harm, or did it?
I expect PB Leavers to be just as sympathetic to bellicose posturing during the French assembly elections, the German elections and the Spring '18 Italian elections.
Brexit by timetable...
Such as Macron threatening to tear up the Calais agreement, or Merkel claiming the UK has 'illusions', you mean?
I don't think tearing up the Calais agreement is a threat. The French are totally serious about passing the problem into us.
'We would be in a strong position not to pay on any spend after 2020. But legally I am not sure how we can not pay until 2020 unless we want to sour relations with the EU countries.'
So just under two years of contributions approx.€ 20 billion.
I’m off to see Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Good luck to PB’s Tissue_Price on his selection.
Sit through the entire end credits.
Five extra scenes.
Why do they insist on extra scenes after the credits? When did that become a thing?
Iron Man. It usually ties into another movie, so is a good way to tease and entice fans.
Five is too many. The first Iron Man had one right at the end, after like 8 minutes of credits, but recently they've tended to two - a brief series of credits of the main actors and the director etc, a scene, then the long form credits, and a very brief one after that.
I can see a certain joy from all those who worked on a movie as it means people stay for the entire credits. Similarly, it must bug cinema employees, as people don't clear out so they can clean up.
Dragon Age Inquisition did it too, and that's a 90 hour videogame.
So I'm right - it's nothing to worry about if Montie is moaning.
For a while Tim Montgomerie was on alternate days tweeting that Britain needed to charm the EU and tweeting that the EU was a dysfunctional organisation that we were well out of. He didn't seem to see the tension between these two lines of tweets.
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
That theory may be about to be tested to destruction.
This election is about Brexit. In Brexit we face one of the more complicated and difficult challenges that we have faced since the war, the outcome of which will have a material effect on peoples' standard of living for a long time to come. The question people have to ask themselves is who is best placed to negotiate us the best result?
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
Of course if the EU are stupid enough to act unreasonably or make ridiculous statements May is going to use the opportunity to ram that message home. It is going to win the election for her so why wouldn't she?
Yep, there is no choice and that is to Labour's eternal shame. In the end, though, a bellicose, confrontational approach to Brexit will hurt us most. That is the bottom line that all those cheering May on need to remember. Cod-Churchill might buy some time should the worst happen, but it will not provide a solution.
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
Yes, I'm very much of that persuasion myself, Yokel, but for the small qualification that one has to believe it's something worth fighting for.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
A little bit of Jingoism never did anyone any harm, or did it?
I expect PB Leavers to be just as sympathetic to bellicose posturing during the French assembly elections, the German elections and the Spring '18 Italian elections.
Brexit by timetable...
Such as Macron threatening to tear up the Calais agreement, or Merkel claiming the UK has 'illusions', you mean?
I don't think tearing up the Calais agreement is a threat. The French are totally serious about passing the problem into us.
The point I was making was that TM is not unique in using foreign affairs posturing as part of an election campaign.
This election is about Brexit. In Brexit we face one of the more complicated and difficult challenges that we have faced since the war, the outcome of which will have a material effect on peoples' standard of living for a long time to come. The question people have to ask themselves is who is best placed to negotiate us the best result?
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
Of course if the EU are stupid enough to act unreasonably or make ridiculous statements May is going to use the opportunity to ram that message home. It is going to win the election for her so why wouldn't she?
Yep, there is no choice and that is to Labour's eternal shame. In the end, though, a bellicose, confrontational approach to Brexit will hurt us most. That is the bottom line that all those cheering May on need to remember. Cod-Churchill might buy some time should the worst happen, but it will not provide a solution.
One hopes all sides will calm down post all these bloody elections, but hope is fading on that front.
May is pitching to the head-bangers here who want failure.
No she's not. She's pitching to those who want a deal but are worried that the EU are being unreasonable.
Yeah, right. let's see the headlines in the Mail , the Express, the Telegraph and the Sun tomorrow. She has made clear that anyone who opposes her is an enemy of the UK.
Agreed and she seems to think 48% are 'the enemy within' so to speak.
I expressed concern to my MP on UK policy towards leaving the EU as I'm entitled to do. He politely passed it onto the govt. for a reply as he usually does. Back came a hostile letter from No. 10. In 43 years I've never had a reply from the govt. that in icy English came close to saying
you have no rights your side lost * GFY (they didn't quite say this but might as well have done).
I didn't mentioned federalism (the f word). I'd just pointed out that Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein find it necessary to have a closer relationship to the EU than WTO and we shouldn't take such a drastic step as WTO.
So, maybe a bunker mentality is already developing in No. 10.
* The referendum was advisory; the ballot paper didn't say 'winner takes all'; 'leaving the EU' could equally be interpreted to be 'like Norway', 'like Iceland' or indeed 'like Liechtenstein'.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
I’m off to see Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Good luck to PB’s Tissue_Price on his selection.
Sit through the entire end credits.
Five extra scenes.
Why do they insist on extra scenes after the credits? When did that become a thing?
Iron Man. It usually ties into another movie, so is a good way to tease and entice fans.
Five is too many. The first Iron Man had one right at the end, after like 8 minutes of credits, but recently they've tended to two - a brief series of credits of the main actors and the director etc, a scene, then the long form credits, and a very brief one after that.
I can see a certain joy from all those who worked on a movie as it means people stay for the entire credits. Similarly, it must bug cinema employees, as people don't clear out so they can clean up.
Dragon Age Inquisition did it too, and that's a 90 hour videogame.
To be fair the extra scene at the end of Deadpool is hilarious. Not played Dragon age....
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
It does seem that the EU is preparing to cut its losses:
No she didn't unless you are arguing she has altered her entire strategy re the negotiations based off the leak against her.
I'm talking about shifts in position, not lashing out, the two can happen at the same time but are not the same thing. Have we altered position? We were resisting their demands and trying to cherry pick, and we still are, officially, aren't we?
If her previous position was "I want the best deal possible" then her statement today represents a shift.
If her previous position was the hardest Brexit possible, then you're right, no change
The Guardian article is utter rubbish. For a start no country will impose tariffs on their own energy when they are so dependent on imports as most of the EU is.
More importantly the article is misleading. It states that 10% of the workforce is from outside the UK ( I am surprised it is that small. Prior to the oil price crash it would have been nearer 30%) without pointing out that 90% of those foreign workers are from non EU countries.
May is pitching to the head-bangers here who want failure.
No she's not. She's pitching to those who want a deal but are worried that the EU are being unreasonable.
Yeah, right. let's see the headlines in the Mail , the Express, the Telegraph and the Sun tomorrow. She has made clear that anyone who opposes her is an enemy of the UK.
Agreed and she seems to think 48% are 'the enemy within' so to speak.
I expressed concern to my MP on UK policy towards leaving the EU as I'm entitled to do. He politely passed it onto the govt. for a reply as he usually does. Back came a hostile letter from No. 10. In 43 years I've never had a reply from the govt. that in icy English came close to saying
you have no rights your side lost * GFY (they didn't quite say this but might as well have done).
I didn't mentioned federalism (the f word). I'd just pointed out that Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein find it necessary to have a closer relationship to the EU than WTO and we shouldn't take such a drastic step as WTO.
So, maybe a bunker mentality is already developing in No. 10.
* The referendum was advisory; the ballot paper didn't say 'winner takes all'; 'leaving the EU' could equally be interpreted to be 'like Norway', 'like Iceland' or indeed 'like Liechtenstein'.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
Yes, I'm very much of that persuasion myself, Yokel, but for the small qualification that one has to believe it's something worth fighting for.
It helps if the EU don't keep upping the bill. I have no idea why this stuff is coming from across the North Sea right now, it makes more sense to keep the powder dry. I get they are mortally offended but jesus christ they need to rest it up.
Of course, if our EU friends want to improve the atmosphere, they have a very simple means to do so. They just need to let it be known that they too don't recognise the figures of €50bn to €100bn which have appeared in the press, and that they expect the final figure to be sensible when compared with the UK's annual membership cost.
Sensible to you = Zero ?
What if the UK have indeed signed commitments of whatever billions ? Are you saying UK should renege ?
Given our annual net contribution is around £13 billion - why would £26 billion become £50 or £100?
Carlotta, the annual NET contribution is indeed net as it says. But the EU gross budget runs into hundreds of billions. In 2014 [ I think ], the EU finalised their budget, partly at Britain's insistence, that it should run until 2020. All 28 countries signed the budget.
We would be in a strong position not to pay on any spend after 2020. But legally I am not sure how we can not pay until 2020 unless we want to sour relations with the EU countries.
Remember one thing: if the UK does not pay [ we do not know the actual figure, at the moment it is all hot air ], the other 27 will have to pick up the tab. No one will be happy.
If our strategy is divide and rule, then the chances of Latvia siding with us, after they have been told they would have to pick up €3bn, say, of the spend, is most unlikely.
I hope I have made it as clear as possible.
Legally I suspect we don't have to pay beyond March 29 2019, morally we should pay until the end of the 2020 budget...
That doesn't however mean we can't get (try to get) something for it....
Fair enough. That could have negotiated with goodwill. But now it has really soured the atmosphere. It is also just not what she says, it is also her manner of saying. Too abrasive. Yes, she will add a few points and win an even bigger majority. Then what ?
Juncker and Verhofstad soured the atmosphere by suggesting the PM was delusional - not too far from your more blunt questioning of her sanity for which you should be ashamed. No doubt you'll soon be calling her worse. what is it with LD/Lab about women in politics?
I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
There is also the British sense of fair play.
Somebody says our opening offer is 50bn, then oh you don't accept it is now 60bn, oh you are tgoing o be awkward it's a 100bn.
The British trait is to say foxtrot Oscar if you are going to play silly buggers.
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
The Irish already unimpressed with the EU and Juncker
Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes has warned that efforts by the EU to increase the bill presented to Britain for leaving the union could “wreck the Brexit negotiations before they start.These reports of a €100 billion bill are utterly unhelpful. Putting such an over-inflated bill on the British could leave talks at a standstill from the start,” he said
And:
In a meeting with the British prime minister Theresa May last week - details of which have been leaked - president of the European Commission Jean Claude Juncker is said to have told the British that if they refuse to pay the bill, there will be no trade deal post-Brexit. That would be a disaster for Ireland, meaning high tariffs for many Irish goods entering the UK market
I’m off to see Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Good luck to PB’s Tissue_Price on his selection.
Sit through the entire end credits.
Five extra scenes.
Why do they insist on extra scenes after the credits? When did that become a thing?
Happened with Iron Man, it is to set up the other films in the franchise.
Even DC did it with Suicide Squad.
Not a wind up?!
I was sat in my chair as the credits rolled feeling smug as everyone walked out! 5mins later I had the usherette saying "look mate I've seen this film 10 times this week and its fucking finished!"
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
The Irish already unimpressed with the EU and Juncker
Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes has warned that efforts by the EU to increase the bill presented to Britain for leaving the union could “wreck the Brexit negotiations before they start”.
“These reports of a €100 billion bill are utterly unhelpful. Putting such an over-inflated bill on the British could leave talks at a standstill from the start,” he said
And:
In a meeting with the British prime minister Theresa May last week - details of which have been leaked - president of the European Commission Jean Claude Juncker is said to have told the British that if they refuse to pay the bill, there will be no trade deal post-Brexit. That would be a disaster for Ireland, meaning high tariffs for many Irish goods entering the UK market
The Irish are running a mini-block with the Dutch & Danes, promoting a no fuss, get it sorted and do a liberal trade deal approach. All three governments appear to be co-ordinating a position.
It's quite apparent from posts on here that there are plenty of Leavers entirely willing to believe that the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung is the obvious newspaper of choice for Eurocrats to try to swing the British election. So Theresa May is probably going to be just fine suggesting that.
The more chilling (and more likely) thought is that the Eurocrats are indifferent to the impact on the UK's general election. If that's a second or third order consideration, it implies that the Eurocrats have more important considerations. None of those more possible important considerations support the idea that a good deal is going to be done.
If you're right no doubt there will now be a dignified silence from all out European friends about the British PM s state of mind while the election continues. I'm sure they wouldn't ever swoop to the level of biting back. Are you?
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
We never pay anyone Dane-geld, No matter how trifling the cost; For the end of that game is oppression and shame, And the nation that pays it is lost
The Irish already unimpressed with the EU and Juncker
Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes has warned that efforts by the EU to increase the bill presented to Britain for leaving the union could “wreck the Brexit negotiations before they start”.
“These reports of a €100 billion bill are utterly unhelpful. Putting such an over-inflated bill on the British could leave talks at a standstill from the start,” he said
And:
In a meeting with the British prime minister Theresa May last week - details of which have been leaked - president of the European Commission Jean Claude Juncker is said to have told the British that if they refuse to pay the bill, there will be no trade deal post-Brexit. That would be a disaster for Ireland, meaning high tariffs for many Irish goods entering the UK market
The Irish are running a mini-block with the Dutch & Danes, promoting a no fuss, get it sorted and do a liberal trade deal approach. All three governments appear to be co-ordinating a position.
The UK government would do well to align itself with them!
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
We never pay anyone Dane-geld,
Surely the existence of the danegeld is proof we do pay danegeld?
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
Verhofstad only the other day was being pretty unpleasant . I have no link but I recall it.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?
He should go. Yes it would be a u-turn and he'd take some flak from the others, but that May is the only one not brave enough to turn up will override that, and he is not bad in such settings.
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
We never pay anyone Dane-geld,
Surely the existence of the danegeld is proof we do pay danegeld?
Interesting report on C4 News by Crick from Mansfield. Locals dominated by Labour and Corbyn - and how badly he is regarded in this solid Labour town.
On paper it looks well within reach for the Tories: last time 28.2% Con, 25.1% UKIP, against Labour's 39.4%. However, the Kipper is standing again, which might be a problem.
Duncan Robinson (@duncanrobinson) "Brexit will never become a success." says Martin Selmayr, chef de cabinet of Jean-Claude Juncker. "It is a sad and sorry event."
Sad and sorry for him and his boss it should indeed be.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
Verhofstad only the other day was being pretty unpleasant . I have no link but I recall it.
Technical question; would spending on a generic 'vote X' advert today count towards general election or local election expenditure?
The short campaign spending period for the GE starts today or when your candidate declares or is nominated, if later. I expect the Mansfield candidate has yet to do either.
It's not just been Labour since 1923, since the seat was created in 1885 it has never gone Conservative. Before it was Labour it was Liberal.
The Tories only failed here by 56 votes in 1987.
One of those curious seats which are not blessed with massive majorities and so not technically 'safe', but which have solidly remained with one party over such a long period that they seem like they should be safe, I suppose. Like Copeland.
When they've shouted Rule Britannia, when they've sung God Save The Queen and when they've finished killing Juncker with their mouths, the Leavers are going to ensure that all of us are going to pay - pay - pay for their jingoism.
We never pay anyone Dane-geld,
Surely the existence of the danegeld is proof we do pay danegeld?
Did.
Indeed. Nowadays one free Christmas tree per year flows in the opposite direction.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.
The debate between Macron and Le Pen is this evening with the election this weekend. May's full frontal attack on Brussels will surely give ammunition to Le Pen.
Technical question; would spending on a generic 'vote X' advert today count towards general election or local election expenditure?
The short campaign spending period for the GE starts today or when your candidate declares or is nominated, if later. I expect the Mansfield candidate has yet to do either.
I received a survey from the Tories the other day. Some good and mildly leading questions on it.
Technical question; would spending on a generic 'vote X' advert today count towards general election or local election expenditure?
The short campaign spending period for the GE starts today or when your candidate declares or is nominated, if later. I expect the Mansfield candidate has yet to do either.
So, this is effectively a 'free hit' not counting for either the GE or the locals? It seems to me that there is scope for a bit of confusion on this, not least because the expenses issues from the 2015 election have still not been conclusively resolved.
Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
A little bit of Jingoism never did anyone any harm, or did it?
I expect PB Leavers to be just as sympathetic to bellicose posturing during the French assembly elections, the German elections and the Spring '18 Italian elections.
Brexit by timetable...
Such as Macron threatening to tear up the Calais agreement, or Merkel claiming the UK has 'illusions', you mean?
I don't think tearing up the Calais agreement is a threat. The French are totally serious about passing the problem into us.
Could that mean that Dave was right (again) about shanty towns i deepest Kent?
Comments
I'm talking about shifts in position, not lashing out, the two can happen at the same time but are not the same thing. Have we altered position? We were resisting their demands and trying to cherry pick, and we still are, officially, aren't we?
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
She's not even trying to win remainers or young people. She's calculated we don't matter.
She's right.
Five extra scenes.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/hard-brexit-oil-gas-industry-wto-freedom-of-movement
I also heard a former Chief Constable on WatO yesterday saying that yes, the police had over-egged their case. She got them to wind their necks back in.
2 from 2.
But she definitely betrayed a lack of confidence today. She has her weaknesses. She reminds me of Brown.
'We would be in a strong position not to pay on any spend after 2020. But legally I am not sure how we can not pay until 2020 unless we want to sour relations with the EU countries.'
So just under two years of contributions approx.€ 20 billion.
So you agree the €60 - 100 billion is nonsense.
Five is too many. The first Iron Man had one right at the end, after like 8 minutes of credits, but recently they've tended to two - a brief series of credits of the main actors and the director etc, a scene, then the long form credits, and a very brief one after that.
I can see a certain joy from all those who worked on a movie as it means people stay for the entire credits. Similarly, it must bug cinema employees, as people don't clear out so they can clean up.
Dragon Age Inquisition did it too, and that's a 90 hour videogame.
The way the election of framed now is that your either a supporter of the UK or your a supporter of Juncker!
Time to choose.
I expressed concern to my MP on UK policy towards leaving the EU as I'm entitled to do. He politely passed it onto the govt. for a reply as he usually does. Back came a hostile letter from No. 10. In 43 years I've never had a reply from the govt. that in icy English came close to saying
you have no rights
your side lost *
GFY (they didn't quite say this but might as well have done).
I didn't mentioned federalism (the f word). I'd just pointed out that Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein find it necessary to have a closer relationship to the EU than WTO and we shouldn't take such a drastic step as WTO.
So, maybe a bunker mentality is already developing in No. 10.
* The referendum was advisory; the ballot paper didn't say 'winner takes all'; 'leaving the EU' could equally be interpreted to be 'like Norway', 'like Iceland' or indeed 'like Liechtenstein'.
https://twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/859805270683287553
If her previous position was the hardest Brexit possible, then you're right, no change
More importantly the article is misleading. It states that 10% of the workforce is from outside the UK ( I am surprised it is that small. Prior to the oil price crash it would have been nearer 30%) without pointing out that 90% of those foreign workers are from non EU countries.
Basically they are talking garbage.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/
Even DC did it with Suicide Squad.
I am frankly amazed they responded though.
https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/859832412959903745
Somebody says our opening offer is 50bn, then oh you don't accept it is now 60bn, oh you are tgoing o be awkward it's a 100bn.
The British trait is to say foxtrot Oscar if you are going to play silly buggers.
Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes has warned that efforts by the EU to increase the bill presented to Britain for leaving the union could “wreck the Brexit negotiations before they start.These reports of a €100 billion bill are utterly unhelpful. Putting such an over-inflated bill on the British could leave talks at a standstill from the start,” he said
And:
In a meeting with the British prime minister Theresa May last week - details of which have been leaked - president of the European Commission Jean Claude Juncker is said to have told the British that if they refuse to pay the bill, there will be no trade deal post-Brexit. That would be a disaster for Ireland, meaning high tariffs for many Irish goods entering the UK market
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-q-a-will-britain-have-to-pay-100bn-to-leave-eu-1.3069895
I was sat in my chair as the credits rolled feeling smug as everyone walked out! 5mins later I had the usherette saying "look mate I've seen this film 10 times this week and its fucking finished!"
The Irish are running a mini-block with the Dutch & Danes, promoting a no fuss, get it sorted and do a liberal trade deal approach. All three governments appear to be co-ordinating a position.
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost
If it says vote [candidate's name] = Local spending.
Seven parties invited - as per 2015 ITV debate.
Debate goes ahead whether or not May and / or Corbyn attend.
May has already said No, Corbyn has said No if May not there.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/itv-uk-general-election-debate-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-empty-chair
"Brexit will never become a success." says Martin Selmayr, chef de cabinet of Jean-Claude Juncker. "It is a sad and sorry event."
Sad and sorry for him and his boss it should indeed be.
Does equal reporting require that May would have her own one-on-one interview as well?
JPMorgan to Move Hundreds of Staff to Three EU Offices on Brexit
http://tinyurl.com/NeedThisFeckingPassporting
Tezza and Jezza empty chaired ....
https://twitter.com/lucian_kim/status/859396825220083712
Her choice not to go.