politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Can we end this “snap election” speculation – TMay, like Dave
Comments
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We're taking control of the fax machine...FF43 said:If trade is run at its smoothest, the law has to be the same and it has to be applied in the same way. It doesn't matter where the court is or who is donning the gowns. But it means signing up, not just to current EU law but to future EU law, and also to ECJ case law.
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Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
I don't think Canada view it that way.williamglenn said:
We're taking control of the fax machine...FF43 said:If trade is run at its smoothest, the law has to be the same and it has to be applied in the same way. It doesn't matter where the court is or who is donning the gowns. But it means signing up, not just to current EU law but to future EU law, and also to ECJ case law.
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That's the style of usage I prefer myself, but even that gets confusing. Distinguishing between Mr Miliband and, er, Mr Miliband. Mr Edward Miliband sounds a bit long-winded.GeoffM said:
Thanks for this and also thanks to everyone else who replied.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. It is because our Prime Minister's name is also a month and a modal verb.GeoffM said:I don't understand this "TMay" thing.
Is it supposed to be insulting? I've never seen it used elsewhere.
So it is stop potential confusion of something like 'May may call a May election'
I shall use Mrs May in any situation where confusion might arise.
Cheers.
And of course, Mr Johnson might be several people but everyone knows who you mean if you just say "Boris", even if it isn't equally polite.0 -
You mean EIC, of EICIPM fame?AnneJGP said:
That's the style of usage I prefer myself, but even that gets confusing. Distinguishing between Mr Miliband and, er, Mr Miliband. Mr Edward Miliband sounds a bit long-winded.GeoffM said:
Thanks for this and also thanks to everyone else who replied.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. It is because our Prime Minister's name is also a month and a modal verb.GeoffM said:I don't understand this "TMay" thing.
Is it supposed to be insulting? I've never seen it used elsewhere.
So it is stop potential confusion of something like 'May may call a May election'
I shall use Mrs May in any situation where confusion might arise.
Cheers.
And of course, Mr Johnson might be several people but everyone knows who you mean if you just say "Boris", even if it isn't equally polite.
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If both government and all opposition parties abstained (the latter to avoid enabling such a machination), the motion could be carried on the single helpful vote of Douglas Carswell.Richard_Nabavi said:
As I've pointed out before when we've discussed this, the Tories wouldn't need to vote against themselves. They could simply abstain, and justify the abstention with some flim-flam about 'it's time to let voters decide'.Paristonda said:This is another good point actually - Labour would be fools to support a motion, they can simply say "if you have no confitdence in your own government, feel free to vote it down, we will of course also be doing that, but we won't support this motion". Tories voting down their own government either comes across as a lack of confidence or as a engineering an election for political gains / playing politics - neither will go down well in the country at large.
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Boris is the exception that proves the rule :AnneJGP said:
That's the style of usage I prefer myself, but even that gets confusing. Distinguishing between Mr Miliband and, er, Mr Miliband. Mr Edward Miliband sounds a bit long-winded.GeoffM said:
Thanks for this and also thanks to everyone else who replied.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. It is because our Prime Minister's name is also a month and a modal verb.GeoffM said:I don't understand this "TMay" thing.
Is it supposed to be insulting? I've never seen it used elsewhere.
So it is stop potential confusion of something like 'May may call a May election'
I shall use Mrs May in any situation where confusion might arise.
Cheers.
And of course, Mr Johnson might be several people but everyone knows who you mean if you just say "Boris", even if it isn't equally polite.
Fox, Davis, Boris
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Sometimes it makes sense to move on and bow may be the time for some on the left. As Reagan I believe once put it: I didn't leave the Democrats, the Democrats left me.stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.
Why have I just wasted my time on this ?
A thought on leaving/joining parties - I've been in the same Party, albeit under different names, for nearly 40 years. I've invested as much personal, financial and emotional capital as anyone supporting a middling League Two team but that isn't the point.
I still think a Lib Dem majority Government would be the best thing for this country but I'm quite well aware 92% or so disagree. Doesn't make them right and me wrong.
To switch to another party would be a total repudiation of that investment and that belief and I can't do that and I'm surprised so many can though a lot of defections in local Government seem based on personality clashes within factions or de-selections.
I could imagine myself leaving the Party and joining the vast majority of the non-aligned and being able to think for myself (though I'm sure I do that now) and have flirted with the idea two or three times (had Clegg formed a Coalition with Brown's Labour Party in 2010 I'm pretty sure I'd have quit) but it would still be a big wrench.0 -
Haven't heard of any but there will probably be a fair few when the Brexit negotiations are done and people have a better idea which regulations they'll be able to arbitrage.JonathanD said:
What business has moved here because of Brexit?0 -
Yes, that would be rather good.AlastairMeeks said:
If both government and all opposition parties abstained (the latter to avoid enabling such a machination), the motion could be carried on the single helpful vote of Douglas Carswell.Richard_Nabavi said:
As I've pointed out before when we've discussed this, the Tories wouldn't need to vote against themselves. They could simply abstain, and justify the abstention with some flim-flam about 'it's time to let voters decide'.Paristonda said:This is another good point actually - Labour would be fools to support a motion, they can simply say "if you have no confitdence in your own government, feel free to vote it down, we will of course also be doing that, but we won't support this motion". Tories voting down their own government either comes across as a lack of confidence or as a engineering an election for political gains / playing politics - neither will go down well in the country at large.
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It's understandable as a reaction, though frustrating when there are people who clearly no longer fit with the party they feel that connection to (and may never again), and are not able to acknowledge that. As you say many local defections seem to be less on ideological grounds. But at more senior levels, as fluid as the parties can be ideologically, and as big a tribes as they can try to be, some clearly don't match the label, and a realignment of our parties would be a good thing, though unlikely.stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.
Why have I just wasted my time on this ?
A thought on leaving/joining parties - I've been in the same Party, albeit under different names, for nearly 40 years. I've invested as much personal, financial and emotional capital as anyone supporting a middling League Two team but that isn't the point.
I still think a Lib Dem majority Government would be the best thing for this country but I'm quite well aware 92% or so disagree. Doesn't make them right and me wrong.
To switch to another party would be a total repudiation of that investment and that belief and I can't do that and I'm surprised so many can though a lot of defections in local Government seem based on personality clashes within factions or de-selections.
I could imagine myself leaving the Party and joining the vast majority of the non-aligned and being able to think for myself (though I'm sure I do that now) and have flirted with the idea two or three times (had Clegg formed a Coalition with Brown's Labour Party in 2010 I'm pretty sure I'd have quit) but it would still be a big wrench.0 -
That does not get away with the playing partisan games and engineering an election solely for their own benefit argument. It would be hard to have an early one and make the justification credible before, now it is even more difficult.Richard_Nabavi said:
As I've pointed out before when we've discussed this, the Tories wouldn't need to vote against themselves. They could simply abstain, and justify the abstention with some flim-flam about 'it's time to let voters decide'.Paristonda said:This is another good point actually - Labour would be fools to support a motion, they can simply say "if you have no confidence in your own government, feel free to vote it down, we will of course also be doing that, but we won't support this motion". Tories voting down their own government either comes across as a lack of confidence or as a engineering an election for political gains / playing politics - neither will go down well in the country at large.
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I feel we may be moving into discuss PR territorykle4 said:
It's understandable as a reaction, though frustrating when there are people who clearly no longer fit with the party they feel that connection to (and may never again), and are not able to acknowledge that. As you say many local defections seem to be less on ideological grounds. But at more senior levels, as fluid as the parties can be ideologically, and as big a tribes as they can try to be, some clearly don't match the label, and a realignment of our parties would be a good thing, though unlikely.stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.
Why have I just wasted my time on this ?
A thought on leaving/joining parties - I've been in the same Party, albeit under different names, for nearly 40 years. I've invested as much personal, financial and emotional capital as anyone supporting a middling League Two team but that isn't the point.
I still think a Lib Dem majority Government would be the best thing for this country but I'm quite well aware 92% or so disagree. Doesn't make them right and me wrong.
To switch to another party would be a total repudiation of that investment and that belief and I can't do that and I'm surprised so many can though a lot of defections in local Government seem based on personality clashes within factions or de-selections.
I could imagine myself leaving the Party and joining the vast majority of the non-aligned and being able to think for myself (though I'm sure I do that now) and have flirted with the idea two or three times (had Clegg formed a Coalition with Brown's Labour Party in 2010 I'm pretty sure I'd have quit) but it would still be a big wrench. 0 -
Big on titles in the US of course. Prime Minister Blair for example. Didn't Mitt call Ed M 'Mr Leader' or some such?Philip_Thompson said:
Could also be referred to as PM May or Prime Minister May or the PM.GeoffM said:
Thanks for this and also thanks to everyone else who replied.TheScreamingEagles said:
No. It is because our Prime Minister's name is also a month and a modal verb.GeoffM said:I don't understand this "TMay" thing.
Is it supposed to be insulting? I've never seen it used elsewhere.
So it is stop potential confusion of something like 'May may call a May election'
I shall use Mrs May in any situation where confusion might arise.
Cheers.0 -
That's certainly true, but it does mean that the mechanism is there and could be used, albeit with some risk.kle4 said:That does not get away with the playing partisan games and engineering an election solely for their own benefit argument. It would be hard to have an early one and make the justification credible before, now it is even more difficult.
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P-M-A
sorted.0 -
If I'm going to have to take a cup with me, I might as well fill it with coffee before leaving home.chestnut said:First, they came for the plastic bags,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-394364000 -
Prime Minister Theresa?Scrapheap_as_was said:P-M-A
sorted.0 -
It seems to me that Premier seems to be used to describe foreign leaders, but quite rare for our own PM. "The Chinese Premier said XYZ" you see often, but not "Premier May said ABC"stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.0 -
OT
How to explain a "contrived vote of no confidence" within the next two years?
Answer: For Theresa May to herself make a statement that she has no confidence that her government could definitely win a vote on the final Brexit deal, and that rather than jeopardise the UK's negotiating position she will resign and move a vote of no confidence in order to secure an increased majority.
At worse that's a minor embarrassment, no worse than all the other embarrassments that this government has suffered (e.g. u-turns on flagship proposals in successive Budgets) from which the Conservatives' polling has emerged unscathed. Nothing in that process should cause the Conservatives any fear.
Furthermore, it would be necessary to seek a contrived vote of no confidence only after Labour had failed to back a prior motion seeking an early election, which in itself would be just as embarrassing for an opposition that has hitherto called for an early election and is pretending that it is in a position to contend for power. And if Corbyn did become PM for a few days in the 14 day period of grace, before failing his own vote of confidence, the reminder to the electorate that that state could become permanent after a general election would not I suggest enhance Labour's chances given his lamentable personal polling.
So I agree that we may well not have an early election, but it'll be because the PM doesn't wish to force one, not because she doesn't have the means to.
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That's my impression too, except for China they do have a Premier, different from their President.Paristonda said:
It seems to me that Premier seems to be used to describe foreign leaders, but quite rare for our own PM. "The Chinese Premier said XYZ" you see often, but not "Premier May said ABC"stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.0 -
You mean a power that's already devolved? Such munificence!TGOHF said:
Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
I'm a traditionalist, our head of Government should be called the First Lord of The Treasury, that's what it says on the door of Number 10 Downing Street.0
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If & when your political party moves away from your beliefs, you have little choice but to continue your investment through other means - or to stop investing.stodge said:Afternoon all
Semantics - there are words like "Prime Minister" or "PM" which would apply. The Mail often uses the word "Premier" which betrays the Latin notion of "primus inter pares" but will suffice.
Why have I just wasted my time on this ?
A thought on leaving/joining parties - I've been in the same Party, albeit under different names, for nearly 40 years. I've invested as much personal, financial and emotional capital as anyone supporting a middling League Two team but that isn't the point.
I still think a Lib Dem majority Government would be the best thing for this country but I'm quite well aware 92% or so disagree. Doesn't make them right and me wrong.
To switch to another party would be a total repudiation of that investment and that belief and I can't do that and I'm surprised so many can though a lot of defections in local Government seem based on personality clashes within factions or de-selections.
I could imagine myself leaving the Party and joining the vast majority of the non-aligned and being able to think for myself (though I'm sure I do that now) and have flirted with the idea two or three times (had Clegg formed a Coalition with Brown's Labour Party in 2010 I'm pretty sure I'd have quit) but it would still be a big wrench.
If your local health food shop becomes a butcher's shop, you don't have to stop being a veggie just because you've always supported local businesses.0 -
I think they mean the powers Brussels currently have over such matters.Theuniondivvie said:
You mean a power that's already devolved? Such munificence!TGOHF said:
Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
Are you piling on the Tories ?TGOHF said:
Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
I think a couple of MPs (SNP, Danchuk) sit as independents at the moment, no?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, that would be rather good.AlastairMeeks said:
If both government and all opposition parties abstained (the latter to avoid enabling such a machination), the motion could be carried on the single helpful vote of Douglas Carswell.Richard_Nabavi said:
As I've pointed out before when we've discussed this, the Tories wouldn't need to vote against themselves. They could simply abstain, and justify the abstention with some flim-flam about 'it's time to let voters decide'.Paristonda said:This is another good point actually - Labour would be fools to support a motion, they can simply say "if you have no confitdence in your own government, feel free to vote it down, we will of course also be doing that, but we won't support this motion". Tories voting down their own government either comes across as a lack of confidence or as a engineering an election for political gains / playing politics - neither will go down well in the country at large.
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From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?0 -
London-centric post!SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
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It does. I remember checking that we had No 10 in the Census Address Register and I was surprised to see that the full address was "Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, 10 Downing Street".TheScreamingEagles said:I'm a traditionalist, our head of Government should be called the First Lord of The Treasury, that's what it says on the door of Number 10 Downing Street.
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Anything else?RobD said:
I think they mean the powers Brussels currently have over such matters.
'List of reserved matters
Reserved matters are subdivided into two categories: General reservations and specific reservations.
General reservations cover major issues which are always handled centrally by the Parliament in Westminster:[5]
the constitution, including:
the Crown
the Union with England, Northern Ireland and Wales
the UK Parliament
the existence of the (criminal) High Court of Justiciary
the existence of the (civil) Court of Session
registration and funding of political parties
international relations, including:
international development
the regulation of international trade
the Home Civil Service
defence
treason
Specific reservations cover particular areas of social and economic policy which are reserved to Westminster, listed under 11 'heads':[6]
Head A - Financial and Economic Matters
fiscal, economic and monetary policy
currency
financial services
financial markets
money laundering
Head B - Home Affairs
drug abuse
data protection and access to information
elections
firearms
film classification
immigration and nationality
scientific procedures on live animals
national security and counter-terrorism
betting, gaming and lotteries
emergency powers
extradition
lieutenancies
Head C – Trade and Industry
business associations
insolvency
competition
intellectual property
import and export control
sea fishing outside the Scottish zone
customer protection
product standards, safety and liability
weights and measures
telecommunications
postal services
research councils
Head D – Energy
electricity
oil and gas
coal
nuclear energy
energy efficiency
Head E - Transport
marine transport
air transport
Head F – Social Security
social security schemes
child support
pensions
Head G – Regulation of the Professions
architect
health professions
auditor
Head H – Employment
employment and industrial relations
health and safety
Head J – Health and Medicines
abortion
xenotransplantation
embryology, surrogacy and human genetics
medicines, medical supplies and poisons
welfare foods
Head K – Media and Culture
broadcasting
public lending right
Head L – Miscellaneous
judicial salaries
equal opportunities
control of weapons of mass destruction
Ordnance Survey
time
outer space'0 -
I do. Full of hope & promise. Nowhere near fulfilled, but the hope & promise were lovely to experience even if they did open the door to cynicism.stodge said:
May 1st and 2nd 1997 were similarly gorgeous - do you remember them with affection ?SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
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I remember Prezza making a comment about the weather being better under Labour when he strolled out of No10 that day.stodge said:
May 1st and 2nd 1997 were similarly gorgeous - do you remember them with affection ?SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
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I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
TUD - you were stating it was a power already devolved. How can it be devolved if it is a power that the EU currently has?0
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His success in obtaining lots of power?Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
I also wonder how long he has held these views. It slipped out last year, since when he hasn't managed an interview without going Hitler mental, but I feel this is something he has believed in for a long time.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
Well Hitler was a socialist.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
Journalists must love him for interviews
"Well that wraps up the main interview, but any thoughts on the third Reich, Ken ?"
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This is the kind of metropolitan London dominated commentary that brought about Brexit. Here in Shropshire it is grey and earlier it rained.SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
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Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.
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Cheap booze and fags for all during travel - huzzah for Brexit
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/return-booze-cruise-ferry-chiefs-plan-slash-wine-beer-prices/
"Brexit will see the return of the "booze cruise" as ferry-passengers will enjoy duty free wine and cigarettes for first time in nearly 20 years.
The British Chamber of Shipping, which represents cross-Channel ferry operators, said that duty free will be "automatically" introduced on cross-channel ferries after Britain leaves the customs union"0 -
I could never work out what Rod Crosby's thing on the Holocaust was....when it came to polling he wouldn't deviate from his beliefs in using data, modelling, stats....but the Holocaust he lost any sort of rationality.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
Just to mention again,Beverley_C said:
He would have to be, if only for forms sake. He "leads" the next biggest grouping and in theory could form a minority govtRobD said:
Would he even be offered it? He can't command the confidence of his own party, let alone the commons.Beverley_C said:Mrs May knows how the spineless entity known as The Labour Party works. If she forced a no-confidence motion then Corbyn would accept the PMship and the supine Labourites would fall in behind him awaiting his patronage.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/03/11/next-prime-minister-gus-odonnell-at-2501/0 -
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.0 -
Didn't he compare a journo to a SS prison camp guard a few years ago?FrancisUrquhart said:
I also wonder how long he has held these views. It slipped out last year, since when he hasn't managed an interview without going Hitler mental, but I feel this is something he has believed in for a long time.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
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What is all this palaver? It is super easy and convenient to write EMilliband, TMay, (ok also Boris, DD), TFarron, NFarage.
It strikes just the right note of reverence, irreverence, familiarity, and formality.0 -
Actually, I suspect that the weather is far better on the continentSeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
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A Jewish journo!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Didn't he compare a journo to a SS prison camp guard a few years ago?FrancisUrquhart said:
I also wonder how long he has held these views. It slipped out last year, since when he hasn't managed an interview without going Hitler mental, but I feel this is something he has believed in for a long time.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
In my student days we used to call it "Channel Gin" because you bought it on the boat to France....TGOHF said:Cheap booze and fags for all during travel - huzzah for Brexit
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/return-booze-cruise-ferry-chiefs-plan-slash-wine-beer-prices/
"Brexit will see the return of the "booze cruise" as ferry-passengers will enjoy duty free wine and cigarettes for first time in nearly 20 years.
The British Chamber of Shipping, which represents cross-Channel ferry operators, said that duty free will be "automatically" introduced on cross-channel ferries after Britain leaves the customs union"
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williamglenn said:
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.
Clutch a passing straw and hold it to your bosom....williamglenn said:
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.0 -
Perhaps Hitler has reincarnated as one of Ken's newts and now has Ken in thrallCasino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it? 0 -
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
If they vote down a deal because it doesn't have the four freedoms then we our going to be out without a deal... without the four freedoms!williamglenn said:
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.0 -
It can. It won't, or rather, I'd be interested in a credible scenario where the Conservatives decided to commit electoral suicide by essentially overriding the EUref result.williamglenn said:
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.0 -
I would counter with a crisp, sunny, autumn day with the leaves just turning.SeanT said:
Nothing beats a beautiful English Spring day. Literally, nothing.Beverley_C said:
Actually, I suspect that the weather is far better on the continentSeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
0 -
Apparently, there is an anti-Semitic movement in Japan, of all places. it's quite small, but nevertheless surprising for a country with virtually no experience of Jewish people before the late twentieth century.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
I was in Ljubljana a few years ago when I saw a banner that saidSean_F said:
"Well, say what you like about Hitler, but what a painter! He could do your sitting room in an afternoon, two coats!"Pulpstar said:Journalists must love him for interviews
"Well that wraps up the main interview, but any thoughts on the third Reich, Ken ?"
'Say what you like about Socialism, at least there are plenty of holidays'
0 -
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: BBC article on Red Bull perhaps being in the mix for the title:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39445434
Worth remembering that whilst Red Bull are bringing improvements, Mercedes and Ferrari aren't to be sat around doing nothing.
If you believe Red Bull can be in the mix, I'd probably suggest waiting until after China. Long straights have not, historically, been their friend, and if they're clearly behind Mercedes and Ferrari again, their odds should lengthen.0 -
It's a beautiful day here in Cambridge - perhaps the best day of the year so far.Monksfield said:
This is the kind of metropolitan London dominated commentary that brought about Brexit. Here in Shropshire it is grey and earlier it rained.SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
Although connecting it to Brexit is a causation too far ...
0 -
Interesting. But why Jews, rather than, say, Hottentots or Cherokees?SeanT said:
There's a theory that anti-Semitism is literally genetic. Innate. A mad theory, but a theory nonetheless.augustus_carp said:
Apparently, there is an anti-Semitic movement in Japan, of all places. it's quite small, but nevertheless surprising for a country with virtually no experience of Jewish people before the late twentieth century.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
Mr. T, I'd suspect the schizophrenia link is more that there are many Jewish conspiracy theories about them secretly running the world. If the Templars are still about, there'd probably be much the same.
Mr. F, Hitler was a master painter. His sitting room paintings will last for a thousand years.0 -
I don't get the whole anti-Semitism thing.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
I can kind of get the irritation some might feel from some Jewish people describing themselves as "God's chosen people", or "The Tribe", and perhaps some sort of arrogance that results from that to those who are not which, combined with business and financial success, creates envy and suspicion. Particularly in a close knit community that doesn't associate with outsiders. But, there are many other such groups and I find it hard to understand how some leap from that to outright hatred when it comes to Jews and Judaism.
Even weirder is the whole free masons/Bilderberg thing.0 -
You can keep your fancy London ways. I shall permit myself a pint of Hobson's Town Crier later.SeanT said:
I'm sitting in my local, the York & Albany (a Gordon Ramsay gastropub, darling) doing some work on my new thriller, as I stare out at the sunlit blossom outside Peter Mandelson's old house, in the Regency Terraces of Regent's Park, on beautiful Primrose Hill borders.Monksfield said:
This is the kind of metropolitan London dominated commentary that brought about Brexit. Here in Shropshire it is grey and earlier it rained.SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
I quite literally just googled Selfridges to see what time the Food Hall shuts, as I have run out of caviar. I hope that helps.0 -
It makes sense to me. The EEA is governed by a separate set of treaties, with a separate leaving process. The A50 court ruling was that Parliament had to explicitly approve a treaty withdrawl process that will eliminate rights enjoyed by citizens. Withdrawing from the EEA would do so, ergo Parliament must approve such.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?0 -
Fortnum & Mason also open until 9, my friend. I find their Beluga superior but chacun a son gout as they say ?SeanT said:
I'm sitting in my local, the York & Albany (a Gordon Ramsay gastropub, darling) doing some work on my new thriller, as I stare out at the sunlit blossom outside Peter Mandelson's old house, in the Regency Terraces of Regent's Park, on beautiful Primrose Hill borders.Monksfield said:
This is the kind of metropolitan London dominated commentary that brought about Brexit. Here in Shropshire it is grey and earlier it rained.SeanT said:Is it any coincidence that the first day after Brexit Day is absolutely gorgeous?
I quite literally just googled Selfridges to see what time the Food Hall shuts, as I have run out of caviar. I hope that helps.
0 -
But Parliament can overrule Theresa May and vote to stay in the EEA. Theresa May is not God.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?0 -
"Let me tell you this! And you're hearing this straight from the horse. Hitler was better looking than Churchill. He was a better dresser than Churchill. He had more hair! He told funnier jokes! And he could dance the pants off of Churchill!"Sean_F said:
"Well, say what you like about Hitler, but what a painter! He could do your sitting room in an afternoon, two coats!"Pulpstar said:Journalists must love him for interviews
"Well that wraps up the main interview, but any thoughts on the third Reich, Ken ?"0 -
Can it? Wouldn't we be in violation of the EEA treaties since we wouldn't accept the four freedoms?surbiton said:
But Parliament can overrule Theresa May and vote to stay in the EEA. Theresa May is not God.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?0 -
It's not completely implausible. A lot more of our personality is to do with genetics and brain chemistry than the commonly accepted Enlightenment view of the rational mind allows for.SeanT said:
There's a theory that anti-Semitism is literally genetic. Innate. A mad theory, but a theory nonetheless.augustus_carp said:
Apparently, there is an anti-Semitic movement in Japan, of all places. it's quite small, but nevertheless surprising for a country with virtually no experience of Jewish people before the late twentieth century.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
If I was HMG, I'd be undertaking full contingency planning for us leaving with no deal whatsoever in anything in (now just under) 2 years time. That would include emergency legislation, and mitigation measures, including tax/regulatory changes, and crash trade deals for the 18 months thereafter.RobD said:
If they vote down a deal because it doesn't have the four freedoms then we our going to be out without a deal... without the four freedoms!williamglenn said:
Parliament can still overrule May on keeping the four freedoms when it comes down to it.John_M said:
Not levelling this at you specifically dear old thing, but people do seem to find it hard to accept that Single Market membership isn't in the UK's gift. The EU27 have made this very clear. Wanting SMM is akin to asking for the moon on a stick.Paristonda said:From Guardian liveblog - "Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA
Labour’s Kevin Brennan asks if there will be a separate vote on leaving the EEA (the European Economic Area).
Davis says there will be votes on many things as part of the process, and that he thinks that is quite probable.
Davis says MPs will probably get a separate vote on leaving the EEA.
This is significant because this could become a flashpoint for those MPs who accept the need to leave the EU but who want the government to adopt “the Norway option”, EEA membership."
This must be a mistake no? A50 letter confirms intentions to leave single market, and as we all know, EEA is incompatible with government negotiation strategy, so they can't possibly risk being forced to stay in single market?
SMM means the four freedoms in full, and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be in violation of section III of the EEA agreement at the very least.
I can see the UK and EU misreading each other all the way down the line, and it actually happening.
Probably a 30-40% chance.0 -
As good a theory as any.Beverley_C said:
Perhaps Hitler has reincarnated as one of Ken's newts and now has Ken in thrallCasino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?0 -
I thought we had moved onto alien lizards secretly running the world?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, I'd suspect the schizophrenia link is more that there are many Jewish conspiracy theories about them secretly running the world. If the Templars are still about, there'd probably be much the same.
Mr. F, Hitler was a master painter. His sitting room paintings will last for a thousand years.0 -
Five year ones, in Siberia.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I was in Ljubljana a few years ago when I saw a banner that saidSean_F said:
"Well, say what you like about Hitler, but what a painter! He could do your sitting room in an afternoon, two coats!"Pulpstar said:Journalists must love him for interviews
"Well that wraps up the main interview, but any thoughts on the third Reich, Ken ?"
'Say what you like about Socialism, at least there are plenty of holidays'0 -
May said such powers may stay with Westminster in her conference speech.RobD said:
I think they mean the powers Brussels currently have over such matters.Theuniondivvie said:
You mean a power that's already devolved? Such munificence!TGOHF said:
Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
Not just Government, all organisations should be making similar plans.Casino_Royale said:
If I was HMG, I'd be undertaking full contingency planning for us leaving with no deal whatsoever in anything in (now just under) 2 years time. That would include emergency legislation, and mitigation measures, including tax/regulatory changes, and crash trade deals for the 18 months thereafter.
I can see the UK and EU misreading each other all the way down the line, and it actually happening.
Probably a 30-40% chance.
0 -
Minister for the Civil Service.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm a traditionalist, our head of Government should be called the First Lord of The Treasury, that's what it says on the door of Number 10 Downing Street.
0 -
I didn't think Ken was a fan, and got the impression he rather admired Hitler's "solutions".SeanT said:
It's not hard to see why highly political people would become fascinated by the Jews, as so many modern political movements stem partly or wholly from "Jewish" ideas and thinkers, and so many prominent politicians and political writers are Jewish.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
If you're a Marxist, like Ken, you believe in a political and economic system devised by a Jew, Karl Marx, and first enacted in Russia, where Jews were very prominent in the early days (e.g. Trotsky).
Look at Britain's recent party leaders - David Cameron, partly Jewish. Nick Clegg, partly Jewish, Ed Miliband, Jewish.
etc etc0 -
I can understand people being prejudiced against Jews, in the way they can be prejudiced against any group.Casino_Royale said:
I don't get the whole anti-Semitism thing.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
I can kind of get the irritation some might feel from some Jewish people describing themselves as "God's chosen people", or "The Tribe", and perhaps some sort of arrogance that results from that to those who are not which, combined with business and financial success, creates envy and suspicion. Particularly in a close knit community that doesn't associate with outsiders. But, there are many other such groups and I find it hard to understand how some leap from that to outright hatred when it comes to Jews and Judaism.
Even weirder is the whole free masons/Bilderberg thing.
I don't get the wild conspiracy theories.0 -
But, it seems to be an exceptionally common prejudice in many nations though?Sean_F said:
I can understand people being prejudiced against Jews, in the way they can be prejudiced against any group.Casino_Royale said:
I don't get the whole anti-Semitism thing.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
I can kind of get the irritation some might feel from some Jewish people describing themselves as "God's chosen people", or "The Tribe", and perhaps some sort of arrogance that results from that to those who are not which, combined with business and financial success, creates envy and suspicion. Particularly in a close knit community that doesn't associate with outsiders. But, there are many other such groups and I find it hard to understand how some leap from that to outright hatred when it comes to Jews and Judaism.
Even weirder is the whole free masons/Bilderberg thing.
I don't get the wild conspiracy theories.0 -
Correct.stodge said:
Not just Government, all organisations should be making similar plans.Casino_Royale said:
If I was HMG, I'd be undertaking full contingency planning for us leaving with no deal whatsoever in anything in (now just under) 2 years time. That would include emergency legislation, and mitigation measures, including tax/regulatory changes, and crash trade deals for the 18 months thereafter.
I can see the UK and EU misreading each other all the way down the line, and it actually happening.
Probably a 30-40% chance.
I just have a feeling the EU wants to try and force the UK into continuing to pay into the EU budget, plus following a lot of regulations, plus having the ECJ rule on it, without having any votes in the EU political institutions, plus allowing almost unchanged free migration, and stopping any trade deals for three years after, and drastically restricting the scope of those too.
And, I'm just not sure that will wash.0 -
The left fell out of love with Jews and Israel when they became strong.Casino_Royale said:
I didn't think Ken was a fan, and got the impression he rather admired Hitler's "solutions".SeanT said:
It's not hard to see why highly political people would become fascinated by the Jews, as so many modern political movements stem partly or wholly from "Jewish" ideas and thinkers, and so many prominent politicians and political writers are Jewish.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
If you're a Marxist, like Ken, you believe in a political and economic system devised by a Jew, Karl Marx, and first enacted in Russia, where Jews were very prominent in the early days (e.g. Trotsky).
Look at Britain's recent party leaders - David Cameron, partly Jewish. Nick Clegg, partly Jewish, Ed Miliband, Jewish.
etc etc
Poor, downtrodden Jews = people we should be helping to become strong; strong Jews = oppressors of the people.0 -
Generally speaking, a good way to spot the rantings of a nutter is if they use phrases like Judaeo/masonic Judaeo/banking or masonic/banking.rottenborough said:
I thought we had moved onto alien lizards secretly running the world?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, I'd suspect the schizophrenia link is more that there are many Jewish conspiracy theories about them secretly running the world. If the Templars are still about, there'd probably be much the same.
Mr. F, Hitler was a master painter. His sitting room paintings will last for a thousand years.
Along with excessive use of capital letters, allegations about "bent" solicitors and police officers, and claims to have "documentary evidence" which is never revealed.0 -
She did?Alistair said:
May said such powers may stay with Westminster in her conference speech.RobD said:
I think they mean the powers Brussels currently have over such matters.Theuniondivvie said:
You mean a power that's already devolved? Such munificence!TGOHF said:
Agriculture and fisheries for a start.Theuniondivvie said:
If we only we knew what those magnificent, new superpowers are. Perhaps you could give us some hints?TGOHF said:
I realist that the cult of Nicla will be a bit scared of being forced to use powers for subjects other than calling for referendums but it's in the bill - wonder if the SNP will vote for or against more powers ??Theuniondivvie said:
Anyway, what do you care, you're a migrant. What's the Great Repeal Bill doing for YOUR region?
We are getting a new Mayor - lets hope he/she doesn't spend the next 4 years blaming Westminster and gets on with things.0 -
Mr. Royale, I'd guess it's for historical reasons. Jews have usually been a minority wherever they've lived. They also were involved early on in banking, when usury (charging interest) was still banned to Christians. So, Christians ended up requiring the services of Jews, who did something that enriched the Jewish doing something that was 'bad' enough that Christians weren't permitted to do it.
Avarice and sin, all in one (of course, it was hugely economically beneficial to not only the Jews but the cities in which they dwelt...).
Couple that with being a minority, and you've got a rich community, few in number, whose wealth comes from something the majority are forbidden from doing.
Sadly, the Jews have taken such a kicking over the years (Edward I didn't cover himself in glory when he threw them out of England) that it's become ingrained in some cultures to dislike them. When I was at school, a surprising and disturbing moment was when several classmates suddenly started using 'Jew/Jewish' as a pejorative term for the people they were killing on the... N64, I think it was.0 -
Probably more they dislike the capitalist ones.TOPPING said:
The left fell out of love with Jews and Israel when they became strong.Casino_Royale said:
I didn't think Ken was a fan, and got the impression he rather admired Hitler's "solutions".SeanT said:
It's not hard to see why highly political people would become fascinated by the Jews, as so many modern political movements stem partly or wholly from "Jewish" ideas and thinkers, and so many prominent politicians and political writers are Jewish.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
If you're a Marxist, like Ken, you believe in a political and economic system devised by a Jew, Karl Marx, and first enacted in Russia, where Jews were very prominent in the early days (e.g. Trotsky).
Look at Britain's recent party leaders - David Cameron, partly Jewish. Nick Clegg, partly Jewish, Ed Miliband, Jewish.
etc etc
Poor, downtrodden Jews = people we should be helping to become strong; strong Jews = oppressors of the people.
Many of the early emigrants to Israel - as well as voters in the UK - were quite socialist.
That has now changed. The Reagan/Thatcher mutual admiration in the 80s probably didn't help either.0 -
Hitler's Willing Executioners, although a tedious book, does document the centuries of anti-semitism in Germany that predisposed non-Jewish Germans to think of the generic Jew (as opposed to your urbane banker neighbour jew) as somehow sub-human.SeanT said:
Well, brave evolutionary psychologists would argue that we are programmed to fear, resent or reject social and economic competitors, or any racial outgroup that seems to have power over us. Hottentots don't run many large companies or own many media groups, to put it bluntly, nor do they have an average IQ one Standard Deviation above the mean.augustus_carp said:
Interesting. But why Jews, rather than, say, Hottentots or Cherokees?SeanT said:
There's a theory that anti-Semitism is literally genetic. Innate. A mad theory, but a theory nonetheless.augustus_carp said:
Apparently, there is an anti-Semitic movement in Japan, of all places. it's quite small, but nevertheless surprising for a country with virtually no experience of Jewish people before the late twentieth century.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
There's a great book on the rise of anti-Semitism in Germany (I forget the title, sorry) which is highly enlightening on the extent of Jewish power in pre-Nazi Germany. German Jews really did own and run an incredible array of businesses, newspapers, entire industries. Because they tend to be smart and industrious.
Hitler exploited resentment at this, he didn't create it.0 -
Well before they were rich capitalists they were poor Jews.SeanT said:
No. Leftwing anti-Semitism goes back much further than that (if you mean the rise of Israel). Lenin became somewhat anti-Semitic towards the end (after initially being pro-Jewish), Stalin was seriously anti-Semitic.TOPPING said:
The left fell out of love with Jews and Israel when they became strong.Casino_Royale said:
I didn't think Ken was a fan, and got the impression he rather admired Hitler's "solutions".SeanT said:
It's not hard to see why highly political people would become fascinated by the Jews, as so many modern political movements stem partly or wholly from "Jewish" ideas and thinkers, and so many prominent politicians and political writers are Jewish.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
If you're a Marxist, like Ken, you believe in a political and economic system devised by a Jew, Karl Marx, and first enacted in Russia, where Jews were very prominent in the early days (e.g. Trotsky).
Look at Britain's recent party leaders - David Cameron, partly Jewish. Nick Clegg, partly Jewish, Ed Miliband, Jewish.
etc etc
Poor, downtrodden Jews = people we should be helping to become strong; strong Jews = oppressors of the people.
And Jews = rich capitalists, for many lefties, from the start.0 -
Plus of course the original sin of killing JChrist. When all else fails that is the fallback anti-semitic reason for the West.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, I'd guess it's for historical reasons. Jews have usually been a minority wherever they've lived. They also were involved early on in banking, when usury (charging interest) was still banned to Christians. So, Christians ended up requiring the services of Jews, who did something that enriched the Jewish doing something that was 'bad' enough that Christians weren't permitted to do it.
Avarice and sin, all in one (of course, it was hugely economically beneficial to not only the Jews but the cities in which they dwelt...).
Couple that with being a minority, and you've got a rich community, few in number, whose wealth comes from something the majority are forbidden from doing.
Sadly, the Jews have taken such a kicking over the years (Edward I didn't cover himself in glory when he threw them out of England) that it's become ingrained in some cultures to dislike them. When I was at school, a surprising and disturbing moment was when several classmates suddenly started using 'Jew/Jewish' as a pejorative term for the people they were killing on the... N64, I think it was.0 -
You should see some of the loonball ideas that the Blue side of Glasgow has about the Catholic hegemony, very similar to classic anti semitism I'd guess.Sean_F said:
I can understand people being prejudiced against Jews, in the way they can be prejudiced against any group.Casino_Royale said:
I don't get the whole anti-Semitism thing.Ishmael_Z said:
Anti semitism is a common symptom of schizophrenia (more so than hostility to other racial groups).Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
I can kind of get the irritation some might feel from some Jewish people describing themselves as "God's chosen people", or "The Tribe", and perhaps some sort of arrogance that results from that to those who are not which, combined with business and financial success, creates envy and suspicion. Particularly in a close knit community that doesn't associate with outsiders. But, there are many other such groups and I find it hard to understand how some leap from that to outright hatred when it comes to Jews and Judaism.
Even weirder is the whole free masons/Bilderberg thing.
I don't get the wild conspiracy theories.
I had a friend who said his Polish dad (came over in WWII) swore that he could identify Jews by their earlobes. Funny old world.
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Lenin was part Jewish wasn't he?SeanT said:
No. Leftwing anti-Semitism goes back much further than that (if you mean the rise of Israel). Lenin became somewhat anti-Semitic towards the end (after initially being pro-Jewish), Stalin was seriously anti-Semitic.TOPPING said:
The left fell out of love with Jews and Israel when they became strong.Casino_Royale said:
I didn't think Ken was a fan, and got the impression he rather admired Hitler's "solutions".SeanT said:
It's not hard to see why highly political people would become fascinated by the Jews, as so many modern political movements stem partly or wholly from "Jewish" ideas and thinkers, and so many prominent politicians and political writers are Jewish.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs another question.SeanT said:
I think it actually stems from an obsession with Israel and Jews, not necessarily anti-Semitism as such, but a definite and peculiar fascination, which can often be found in highly political people. So the Hitler thing is a product of that.Casino_Royale said:I'd love to understand the psychology behind Ken Livingstone's obsession with Hitler.
Does he admire him? Does he think he's misunderstood?
What is it?
If you're a Marxist, like Ken, you believe in a political and economic system devised by a Jew, Karl Marx, and first enacted in Russia, where Jews were very prominent in the early days (e.g. Trotsky).
Look at Britain's recent party leaders - David Cameron, partly Jewish. Nick Clegg, partly Jewish, Ed Miliband, Jewish.
etc etc
Poor, downtrodden Jews = people we should be helping to become strong; strong Jews = oppressors of the people.
And Jews = rich capitalists, for many lefties, from the start.
Edit: not that that would necessarily preclude anti semitism.0 -
I don't obviously know but that might well be the EU Commission's opening negotiating position - it makes sense for them particularly from a financial standpoint to have the UK continuing to contribute.Casino_Royale said:
Correct.
I just have a feeling the EU wants to try and force the UK into continuing to pay into the EU budget, plus following a lot of regulations, plus having the ECJ rule on it, without having any votes in the EU political institutions, plus allowing almost unchanged free migration, and stopping any trade deals for three years after, and drastically restricting the scope of those too.
And, I'm just not sure that will wash.
Obviously, that wouldn't be acceptable to us at all and that's the art of negotiation.
One thing the UK will need to have for Day 1 outside the EU is a clear immigration policy or, more precisely, a clear view on the status of EU nationals currently resident and any future migrants into the UK from the EU countries. Genuine refugees are already catered for under existing international treaties, I believe.
As we technically can't even begin to negotiate free trade deals with other countries until we've left the EU, we'll need some transitional arrangements until we agree some FTA arrangements (which with some countries will be quick and with others a lot slower).
The workload is therefore much greater than just the EU and a number of key areas will have to be ready for Day 1 post-EU even if a broader treaty with the EU hasn't been concluded.
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