politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Westminster attacks: It’ll be some time before we get the
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Because you speculated about some being involved with today's incident without any evidence, whereas all the other person has been named by a reputable news organisation.isam said:Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?
Already today @Plato did what you did which could have cost Mike a lot of money in the courts.0 -
Do you seriously think that surveillance would have identified a man carrying a concealed knife when he left his house?williamglenn said:
He didn't stab the police officers with his car.oxfordsimon said:
And how do you think that surveillance would have stopped someone getting into their own car and going for a drive? How could it have worked out his intentions on this particular occasion?AndyJS said:I hope it wasn't the person being named in various places, because he should have been under surveillance.
Unless someone is under house arrest, they will be allowed a certain amount of freedom of movement around their home city.
How do you propose we see into their minds?0 -
Mr. JS, vielleicht. Surveillance is very costly. Frankly, no country in Western Europe has the manpower to put everyone they might want to under surveillance.
I fail to see how this will 'land May in the brown stuff'. I agree with Mr. Malmesbury.0 -
You make a fair point about what the security services can actually do, but it won't stop awkward questions being asked.oxfordsimon said:
Utter rubbish.tlg86 said:This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
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Quite a high profile is an understatement.TwistedFireStopper said:Trevor Brooks does seem to have quite a high profile.
Brooks is Choudary's mate. Been interviewed on tv numerous times.
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I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Isam hasn't name names, others on here are naming people off the back of Twitter speculation.PBModerator said:
Because you speculated about some being involved with today's incident without any evidence, whereas all the other person has been named by a reputable news organisation.isam said:Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?
Already today @Plato did what you did which could have cost Mike a lot of money in the courts.0 -
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Agreed - it would take something very very significant to do that, and the impossibility of monitoring everyone we'd like to the point they can be followed and neutralised at all times, would need more than that.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, vielleicht. Surveillance is very costly. Frankly, no country in Western Europe has the manpower to put everyone they might want to under surveillance.
I fail to see how this will 'land May in the brown stuff'. I agree with Mr. Malmesbury.0 -
So what about all the other comments from other people specifically naming the killer by name? They are still here!PBModerator said:
Because you speculated about some being involved with today's incident without any evidence, whereas all the other person has been named by a reputable news organisation.isam said:Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?
Already today @Plato did what you did which could have cost Mike a lot of money in the courts.
As far as I am aware the man they are naming hasn't been unveiled as the guilty party.. if it isn't him, Mike could need to back a few Lib Dems at 50/1 in By Elections
I just posted something that named no names and that has been deleted. How ridiculous!
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The PM is not out on the steps for a reason, because they close things up for a bit.
This will be considered a running incident for now.
The pure loner idea cannot be concluded on for days yet so you have little choice.0 -
Ok,that is darkly funny.Theuniondivvie said:Some light relief.
https://twitter.com/GaspardWinckler/status/8446197886514995200 -
Awkward questions may have to be asked. Sadly, the leader of the opposition is in no position to ask them.tlg86 said:
You make a fair point about what the security services can actually do, but it won't stop awkward questions being asked.oxfordsimon said:
Utter rubbish.tlg86 said:This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
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Pertinent questions need to be asked. Point-scoring ones need to remain unasked.JosiasJessop said:
Awkward questions may have to be asked. Sadly, the leader of the opposition is in no position to ask them.tlg86 said:
You make a fair point about what the security services can actually do, but it won't stop awkward questions being asked.oxfordsimon said:
Utter rubbish.tlg86 said:This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
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Channel 4 News just named the person being referred to elsewhere as being strongly suspected of having carried out the attack.0
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I didn't name anyone either.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Isam hasn't name names, others on here are naming people off the back of Twitter speculation.PBModerator said:
Because you speculated about some being involved with today's incident without any evidence, whereas all the other person has been named by a reputable news organisation.isam said:Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?
Already today @Plato did what you did which could have cost Mike a lot of money in the courts.0 -
1) As noted below the name for Trevor Brooks came from a reputable news source which was posted downthread.isam said:
So what about all the other comments from other people specifically naming the killer by name? They are still here!PBModerator said:
Because you speculated about some being involved with today's incident without any evidence, whereas all the other person has been named by a reputable news organisation.isam said:Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?
Already today @Plato did what you did which could have cost Mike a lot of money in the courts.
As far as I am aware the man they are naming hasn't been unveiled as the guilty party
I just posted something that named no names and that has been deleted. How ridiculous!
2) You don't need to name names for a comment to be legally problematic.0 -
Well there was apparently one black man and one white man involved according to earlier reports. When Amber Rudd describes the situation as "ongoing", what does that mean?0
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There will be the wild gnashing of teeth, tough talk will gush from the lips of politicians of all colours, there will be umpteen inquiries - and precisely nothing will change.0
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So not an Asian.SeanT said:0 -
Anyone got Sadiq's statement?0
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A talker becomes a doer? Curious.
Its not complete loner job.
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There is a lot of information about him online.SeanT said:If it was Trevor Brooks it does pose dangerous questions for certain politicians
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what do you make of Marty's departure ?Y0kel said:A talker becomes a doer? Curious.
Its not complete loner job.0 -
Channel 4 now - Simon Israel just named Brooks as the suspect. Mentioned he was detained in Hungary in 2015. Left out reference to court case mentioned by Mirror.0
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Many of the initial reports said the attacker was Asian and a lot of twitter comments were based around that. Shows, once again, that it's always best to wait.SeanT said:
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May was Home Secretary for six years, and may have had some responsibility for issues leading to this attack. A good, competent opposition would be able to press her on any relevant points.oxfordsimon said:
Pertinent questions need to be asked. Point-scoring ones need to remain unasked.JosiasJessop said:
Awkward questions may have to be asked. Sadly, the leader of the opposition is in no position to ask them.tlg86 said:
You make a fair point about what the security services can actually do, but it won't stop awkward questions being asked.oxfordsimon said:
Utter rubbish.tlg86 said:This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
Corbyn isn't the man to do it: there's too much mud that can be thrown back in his direction. That's bad for getting to the truth; worse for ensuring any mistakes that may have been made are learnt from.
But it's still far too early to say either way.0 -
Nothing about him being sentenced to two years jail time in Jan 2016?SeanT said:0 -
The Cobra meeting will be heated if these reports are true0
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Utterly off-topic aside: just discovered that Graves nicked the 'drills were bloodless battles and battles were bloody drills' line (spoken in I, Claudius by Drusus to Tiberius, describing how the army saw the latter as a commander) from Josephus.0
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But lots of them live in Bedfordshire , Guantanamo's an improvementSeanT said:Basically, lock up everyone linked to Hamza, Choudhary, etc
Lock them up forever. In some kind of Guantanamo.0 -
I'm all for actually convicting people of things rather than the Guantanamo approach, but it has to be said its amazing how long that can take sometimes given how dangerous some of them are later said to be.SeanT said:Basically, lock up everyone linked to Hamza, Choudhary, etc
Lock them up forever. In some kind of Guantanamo.0 -
What sort of surveillance do people think would have prevented this attack?
I fail to see how any of our security services could have read the attackers mind as he set out with a (presumably concealed) knife in his car today.0 -
If it is a known individual that raises all sorts of questions.
Who is he currently connected to?
Was he under surveillance?
And all those that follow.0 -
nope - but clearly an IslamistSouthamObserver said:
So not an Asian.SeanT said:0 -
tlg86 said:
This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
I'm sure TM is trying to establish the facts before she talks to the country.oxfordsimon said:
Utter rubbish.tlg86 said:This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.
Absolutely the right thing to do.0 -
maybe the Sun will say it's Gina Miller :-)SouthamObserver said:
Many of the initial reports said the attacker was Asian and a lot of twitter comments were based around that. Shows, once again, that it's always best to wait.SeanT said:0 -
He was jailed for four and half years in May 2008 for terrorism charges but was let out in 2009.SeanT said:
Not sure where this January 2016 jail sentence has come from?0 -
Choudary is absolute scumOUT said:
Quite a high profile is an understatement.TwistedFireStopper said:Trevor Brooks does seem to have quite a high profile.
Brooks is Choudary's mate. Been interviewed on tv numerous times.0 -
Another angle is whether May will let Amber Rudd get on with the job over the next few weeks or whether she'll try to micro-manage and pull decisions in to Number 10.0
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I am not sure being under surveillance could stop such an attack, especially if it was a so-called lone wolf attack.SeanT said:
With a two year sentence you'd be out after a year (esp if you did time remanded).dr_spyn said:Channel 4 now - Simon Israel just named Brooks as the suspect. Mentioned he was detained in Hungary in 2015. Left out reference to court case mentioned by Mirror.
So it makes sense he could be free, now, and as soon as he got free - he went postal.
Doesn't excuse the fact he slipped through the surveillance net.0 -
Mr. T, can't put everyone under surveillance, there simply isn't the manpower. The pool of former, suspected and potential terrorists is enormous.0
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"Both men were sentenced to two years in prison. The maximum term for the offence is five years."murali_s said:
So if the judge had given them a stiffer sentence, he would have still been inside.0 -
It seems to be from breaching the rules requiring him not to leave the country - unless I have mis-read somethingGIN1138 said:
He was jailed for four and half years in May 2008 for terrorism charges but was let out in 2009.SeanT said:
Not sure where this January 2016 jail sentence has come from?0 -
From once the authorities claim to be known locally as
DaveTrev isn't far off...0 -
How on earth can any security services prevent someone even on a warch list getting into their own car and then suddenly turning it into a weapon.oxfordsimon said:What sort of surveillance do people think would have prevented this attack?
I fail to see how any of our security services could have read the attackers mind as he set out with a (presumably concealed) knife in his car today.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-7142974GIN1138 said:
He was jailed for four and half years in May 2008 for terrorism charges but was let out in 2009.SeanT said:
Not sure where this January 2016 jail sentence has come from?0 -
"not entirely unknown " lolwilliamglenn said:0 -
The Martin McGuiness of our time... will he be an MP in 2040? A martyr in 2056?Floater said:
Choudary is absolute scumOUT said:
Quite a high profile is an understatement.TwistedFireStopper said:Trevor Brooks does seem to have quite a high profile.
Brooks is Choudary's mate. Been interviewed on tv numerous times.0 -
See here:GIN1138 said:
He was jailed for four and half years in May 2008 for terrorism charges but was let out in 2009.SeanT said:
Not sure where this January 2016 jail sentence has come from?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-71429740 -
On a positive front the piece of shit is dead. No loss whatsoever and the idea that a sad loser like this has any intelligence, frankly of any kind, is highly optimistic. Of course we need to investigate whether there are other similar losers that he was in contact with who might be similarly deluded but there was nothing sophisticated or even planned about this. I'm glad he's dead. I seriously hope it hurt, a lot.0
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Any chance to have a dig at May...williamglenn said:Another angle is whether May will let Amber Rudd get on with the job over the next few weeks or whether she'll try to micro-manage and pull decisions in to Number 10.
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It would have to be extremely extensive and capable of knowing, when he got into a car, what he intended if they were to stop him at all, since he presumably drove sensibly until he got there.RobD said:
I am not sure being under surveillance could stop such an attack, especially if it was a so-called lone wolf attack.SeanT said:
With a two year sentence you'd be out after a year (esp if you did time remanded).dr_spyn said:Channel 4 now - Simon Israel just named Brooks as the suspect. Mentioned he was detained in Hungary in 2015. Left out reference to court case mentioned by Mirror.
So it makes sense he could be free, now, and as soon as he got free - he went postal.
Doesn't excuse the fact he slipped through the surveillance net.
We shall see what details emerge, but clearly if it is him there will be much criticism, but it may well be it was off such a low level, planning wise, it just couldn't be prevented.0 -
Mr. StClare, well. That's a bit of a surprise.0
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Not entirely sure what can be done other than remember the victims and continue to go about our business with heightened vigilance and resolve. Eventually it will come to pass that such actions are seen for what they are. Utterly futile. N Ireland learned that lesson. Sadly we are not there yet.0
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Maybe then he would have done it a few years later?SandyRentool said:
"Both men were sentenced to two years in prison. The maximum term for the offence is five years."murali_s said:
So if the judge had given them a stiffer sentence, he would have still been inside.0 -
Maybe then he would have done it a few years later?SandyRentool said:
"Both men were sentenced to two years in prison. The maximum term for the offence is five years."murali_s said:
So if the judge had given them a stiffer sentence, he would have still been inside.0 -
Ooh crikey the plot thickensSimonStClare said:0 -
If that is true some have got this very wrongSimonStClare said:0 -
You can't compare the IRA with Islamic terrorism. The Death Cult want us dead.dixiedean said:Not entirely sure what can be done other than remember the victims and continue to go about our business with heightened vigilance and resolve. Eventually it will come to pass that such actions are seen for what they are. Utterly futile. N Ireland learned that lesson. Sadly we are not there yet.
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We're definitely fortunate that most of our home-grown brigade seem to be thick as pigshit, and thus rather lacking in imagination when it comes to mass murder.SeanT said:It's slightly reassuring that it's Brooks, in a bizarre way. He's been linked to terror and ISIS for many years. He's a bigwig in the bearded loony brigade.
Awfully easy to dream up much more effective methods.0 -
Was he mentally ill?FrancisUrquhart said:From once the authorities claim to be known locally as
DaveTrev isn't far off...0 -
A guy from ABC fact checked this simple point and C4 didn't????SimonStClare said:0 -
Again, if it was the currently named person, its a notable change in pattern.0
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and growingMorris_Dancer said:Mr. T, can't put everyone under surveillance, there simply isn't the manpower. The pool of former, suspected and potential terrorists is enormous.
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I agree... Seems almost impossible to stop.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How on earth can any security services prevent someone even on a warch list getting into their own car and then suddenly turning it into a weapon.oxfordsimon said:What sort of surveillance do people think would have prevented this attack?
I fail to see how any of our security services could have read the attackers mind as he set out with a (presumably concealed) knife in his car today.0 -
Think everyone needs to wait for official confirmation of the terrorist before jumping to conclusionsSeanT said:0 -
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Sky news were treating right wing extremism as if it is at the same level as Jihadist terrorism.
Right..................................0 -
Sky news expert just raised that possibility.Floater said:
Was he mentally ill?FrancisUrquhart said:From once the authorities claim to be known locally as
DaveTrev isn't far off...
Also stated that UK has 3000 people that are listed as a danger and ideally should be under surveillance. Apparently France have 2000 and they only actually have 40 under round the clock watch.0 -
If C4News has this wrong they are going to have serious questions to answerSeanT said:I'm very confused now. C4News is still adamant that its Izzadeen - yet his solicitor says he's in jail??!
I suspect a spoof tweet. C4News has it right0 -
Their fixation with London helps the security forces, plus all the hard security furniture. You drive a car down Loughborough Marketplace on a Thursday and you'd run out of petrol before enough tooled up coppers could be scrounged up. It's a scary thought, but nothing we can do about it really.Andrew said:
We're definitely fortunate that most of our home-grown brigade seem to be thick as pigshit, and thus rather lacking in imagination when it comes to mass murder.SeanT said:It's slightly reassuring that it's Brooks, in a bizarre way. He's been linked to terror and ISIS for many years. He's a bigwig in the bearded loony brigade.
Awfully easy to dream up much more effective methods.0 -
2 of the French children are in a critical condition
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Have ch4 just libelled a terrorist....Imagine if they have and have to pay compensation. Surely they won't have balls this up, surely?0
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People are tweeting that the C4 alleged attacker is apparently still in jail0
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I'm pretty certain calling someone a terrorist like on TV over and over again will have libel implications...Big_G_NorthWales said:
If C4News has this wrong they are going to have serious questions to answerSeanT said:I'm very confused now. C4News is still adamant that its Izzadeen - yet his solicitor says he's in jail??!
I suspect a spoof tweet. C4News has it right0 -
ex policeman on Sky admitted only London could respond as promptly with armed officers.TwistedFireStopper said:
Their fixation with London helps the security forces, plus all the hard security furniture. You drive a car down Loughborough Marketplace on a Thursday and you'd run out of petrol before enough tooled up coppers could be scrounged up. It's a scary thought, but nothing we can do about it really.Andrew said:
We're definitely fortunate that most of our home-grown brigade seem to be thick as pigshit, and thus rather lacking in imagination when it comes to mass murder.SeanT said:It's slightly reassuring that it's Brooks, in a bizarre way. He's been linked to terror and ISIS for many years. He's a bigwig in the bearded loony brigade.
Awfully easy to dream up much more effective methods.
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3000 that we know of...........................FrancisUrquhart said:
Sky news expert just raised that possibility.Floater said:
Was he mentally ill?FrancisUrquhart said:From once the authorities claim to be known locally as
DaveTrev isn't far off...
Also stated that UK has 3000 people that are listed as a danger and ideally should be under surveillance. Apparently France have 2000 and they only actually have 40 under round the clock watch.
How many at the height of the troubles?0 -
In all seriousness, it's not hard to see how the hate crime legislation could be (very slightly) re-purposed for this kind of application.SeanT said:Lock up EVERYONE who rants about Islam.
It's not hard. All of them. Lock 'em up. Bin the keys. Or offer them safe passage to Raqqa0 -
PB Moderator was spot on on this earlierTheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm pretty certain calling someone a terrorist like on TV over and over again will have libel implications...Big_G_NorthWales said:
If C4News has this wrong they are going to have serious questions to answerSeanT said:I'm very confused now. C4News is still adamant that its Izzadeen - yet his solicitor says he's in jail??!
I suspect a spoof tweet. C4News has it right0 -
I think it is interesting that sky news, never normally slow to want to be the first to break news, aren't repeating ch4s claim as of yet.0
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Surely anyone who believes that committing this sort of terrorist act is acceptable is operating under a severe delusion. Severe enough to be considered mentally ill.Floater said:
Was he mentally ill?FrancisUrquhart said:From once the authorities claim to be known locally as
DaveTrev isn't far off...
But that is no excuse for their actions.0 -
Re Tobias Ellwood. A mate of mine served in the Green Jacket's with him. He said he is utterly unsurprised the way he jumped in to help. Chapeau.0
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So what can be done then? Death cults end when their adherents are dead, and any potential recruits see it as pointless. ISIS is on its last legs in Syria and Iraq.TwistedFireStopper said:
You can't compare the IRA with Islamic terrorism. The Death Cult want us dead.dixiedean said:Not entirely sure what can be done other than remember the victims and continue to go about our business with heightened vigilance and resolve. Eventually it will come to pass that such actions are seen for what they are. Utterly futile. N Ireland learned that lesson. Sadly we are not there yet.
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An extraordinary choice of words by Kay Burley for which both she and Sky News should apologise.DecrepitJohnL said:
Especially when it is a lone wolf, as the "responsible" groups need to wait till the media tell them who the attacker was "inspired" by.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, they can take a few hours to claim responsibility. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while yet, or even happens tomorrow.
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Independent newspaper naming the same person as C4 News.0
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But not so much now. That name is still on this thread and it might be wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
PB Moderator was spot on on this earlierTheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm pretty certain calling someone a terrorist like on TV over and over again will have libel implications...Big_G_NorthWales said:
If C4News has this wrong they are going to have serious questions to answerSeanT said:I'm very confused now. C4News is still adamant that its Izzadeen - yet his solicitor says he's in jail??!
I suspect a spoof tweet. C4News has it right0 -
Hasnt been to Belfast then.Floater said:
ex policeman on Sky admitted only London could respond as promptly with armed officers.TwistedFireStopper said:
Their fixation with London helps the security forces, plus all the hard security furniture. You drive a car down Loughborough Marketplace on a Thursday and you'd run out of petrol before enough tooled up coppers could be scrounged up. It's a scary thought, but nothing we can do about it really.Andrew said:
We're definitely fortunate that most of our home-grown brigade seem to be thick as pigshit, and thus rather lacking in imagination when it comes to mass murder.SeanT said:It's slightly reassuring that it's Brooks, in a bizarre way. He's been linked to terror and ISIS for many years. He's a bigwig in the bearded loony brigade.
Awfully easy to dream up much more effective methods.0 -
Yeah, but it'll pop up elsewhere, and that doesn't stop our own homegrown crazies. This won't be resolved anytime soon.dixiedean said:
So what can be done then? Death cults end when their adherents are dead, and any potential recruits see it as pointless. ISIS is on its last legs in Syria and Iraq.TwistedFireStopper said:
You can't compare the IRA with Islamic terrorism. The Death Cult want us dead.dixiedean said:Not entirely sure what can be done other than remember the victims and continue to go about our business with heightened vigilance and resolve. Eventually it will come to pass that such actions are seen for what they are. Utterly futile. N Ireland learned that lesson. Sadly we are not there yet.
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OOPS!!!!
Andrew NeilVerified account @afneil 11m11 minutes ago
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Well, how does Channel 4 News square this: Trevor Brooks aka Abu Izzadeen's solicitor says he's still in jail!!0 -
ISIS is not the be all and end of of Islamic terrorism.dixiedean said:
So what can be done then? Death cults end when their adherents are dead, and any potential recruits see it as pointless. ISIS is on its last legs in Syria and Iraq.TwistedFireStopper said:
You can't compare the IRA with Islamic terrorism. The Death Cult want us dead.dixiedean said:Not entirely sure what can be done other than remember the victims and continue to go about our business with heightened vigilance and resolve. Eventually it will come to pass that such actions are seen for what they are. Utterly futile. N Ireland learned that lesson. Sadly we are not there yet.
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C4 might be backtracking re Trevor Brooks. Simon Israel on now.0
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Have ch4 just topped the mirror's infamous front page?0
