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It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be the EU who have decided to launch a trade war not the UK. Of course more UK exports go to the U.S. than any individual EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The EU is our largest export market, by far. Tariff free access to the US will make little difference when compared to it becoming more expensive and time-consuming to do business where we trade most. That's before you even factor in tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes so we are leaving the single market as the EU will not allow border control and full free trade so having the prospect of a trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There is no deal that could conceivably get through Congress which will come close to replacing what we lose as a result of leaving the single market. Just as Germany is a net exporter toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
Wow. I am leader of the free world? No wonder we have so many problems.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The only difference now is that the leader of the free world is saying itDavidL said:
Not intentionally and just because Trump said it doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong. It's just kind of obvious that the German model exploits its trading partners.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are echoing Trumps comments about GermanyDavidL said:
Hard to say. If German exports fell there would be a need to increase domestic demand ( something Germany is very well placed to do if it was so minded) and this might actually help the rest of the EZ. Very little benefit flows to the EZ from Germany's capital good export for anyone except Germany. Over the last 7-8 years Germany has been a parasite on the EZ sucking up demand, creating mass unemployment in other countries and enriching itself at their expense. No one wants serious problems in Germany but a rebalancing of policy would be welcome.SouthamObserver said:
Do you think the rest of the EU will not have problems if Germany does?DavidL said:
Germany takes approximately 10% of our exports which is significant, second highest in fact, but a 20% reduction in sales there means a 2% reduction in exports. We are not so dependent upon them now and we will be even less so when we are out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
If Germany sneezes, Europe catches a cold and the UK gets very poorly indeed. What Trump wants is diametrically opposed to our interests.Big_G_NorthWales said:SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Germany's problems are not our problems. We have enough problems of our own.0 -
That was a good one:welshowl said:Re daft signs.
In 2008 or thereabouts someone in Swansea ( council?) sent a note in English to the translation dept to have the sign bilingualised into Welsh as all road signs are here. The English said "Heavy goods vehicle restricted access" or something similar. The translation duly came back quickly with the Welsh version from the translator. This Welsh was duly put on the sign and the sign was made and put in place. Sadly the Welsh said "I'm out of the office at present. Please forward anything for translation".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm0 -
I would say the U.S.is in a strong position against Germany in isolation. Germany has a massive trade balance, mostly in automotive products, which Trump wants to indigenise. Less so if the EU sticks together. EU trade represents too much of American exports. somewhat similar to our position versus the EU, but less extreme. This is probably why Trump wants to pick off individual countries and is a good reason for countries to stay members of the EU.0
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Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?0 -
Seconded, "Glam Colm"Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Happy birthday Malc
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It's not just money. It's being willing to kill your enemies, and to take casualties. Civilised governments prefer to pay people to litigate against their own soldiers.NewsTaker said:
EU GDP PPP is bigger than USA (even without the UK) so why can the EU countries not pay for an effective military? They just need to start meeting the NATO 2% minimum. Germany being the single biggest culprit in $, barely paying half its share.ReggieCide said:
The EU can never have an effective military of any description because it couldn't pay for it without USA's bucks.SouthamObserver said:
For the US to be dominant it needs smaller nations states to deal with, not big trading and military blocs. An effective EU army would underpin a strong EU: the last thing that Trump believes is in America's interests.AnneJGP said:
I hadn't picked up on Mr Trump's dislike of plans for an EU army. I thought that he'd be glad of such a thing, given that he's none too keen on NATO.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Trump is threatening BMW already with 35% tariffs if they go ahead with their new factory in Mexico.SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:
Mrs M is a very smart lady. Not someone to try to get the better of.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Have you got a link?
I share many concerns about trade wars but I think Germany is facing a huge threat from Trump, not only on the plan for an EU army which he opposes, but their contributions to NATO and his dislike of the way they have economically damaged the south through the euro.
These are unprecedented times0 -
To be fair I think there would be some relief in some quarters if you wereDavidL said:
Wow. I am leader of the free world? No wonder we have so many problems.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The only difference now is that the leader of the free world is saying itDavidL said:
Not intentionally and just because Trump said it doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong. It's just kind of obvious that the German model exploits its trading partners.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are echoing Trumps comments about GermanyDavidL said:
Hard to say. If German exports fell there would be a need to increase domestic demand ( something Germany is very well placed to do if it was so minded) and this might actually help the rest of the EZ. Very little benefit flows to the EZ from Germany's capital good export for anyone except Germany. Over the last 7-8 years Germany has been a parasite on the EZ sucking up demand, creating mass unemployment in other countries and enriching itself at their expense. No one wants serious problems in Germany but a rebalancing of policy would be welcome.SouthamObserver said:
Do you think the rest of the EU will not have problems if Germany does?DavidL said:
Germany takes approximately 10% of our exports which is significant, second highest in fact, but a 20% reduction in sales there means a 2% reduction in exports. We are not so dependent upon them now and we will be even less so when we are out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
If Germany sneezes, Europe catches a cold and the UK gets very poorly indeed. What Trump wants is diametrically opposed to our interests.Big_G_NorthWales said:SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Germany's problems are not our problems. We have enough problems of our own.0 -
I voted Labour at GE2015murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
BTW feel free to start your own left-wing blog.0 -
It's been tested, and balsamic vinegar is the best way to catch flies. In general, with normal vinegar, and normal flies, the honey wins.Fysics_Teacher said:
xkcd begs to differ.rcs1000 said:
I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
or prefer to pay for their welfare states and 50% levels of unemployed young folk.Sean_F said:
It's not just money. It's being willing to kill your enemies, and to take casualties. Civilised governments prefer to pay people to litigate against their own soldiers.NewsTaker said:
EU GDP PPP is bigger than USA (even without the UK) so why can the EU countries not pay for an effective military? They just need to start meeting the NATO 2% minimum. Germany being the single biggest culprit in $, barely paying half its share.ReggieCide said:
The EU can never have an effective military of any description because it couldn't pay for it without USA's bucks.SouthamObserver said:
For the US to be dominant it needs smaller nations states to deal with, not big trading and military blocs. An effective EU army would underpin a strong EU: the last thing that Trump believes is in America's interests.AnneJGP said:
I hadn't picked up on Mr Trump's dislike of plans for an EU army. I thought that he'd be glad of such a thing, given that he's none too keen on NATO.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Trump is threatening BMW already with 35% tariffs if they go ahead with their new factory in Mexico.SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:
Mrs M is a very smart lady. Not someone to try to get the better of.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Have you got a link?
I share many concerns about trade wars but I think Germany is facing a huge threat from Trump, not only on the plan for an EU army which he opposes, but their contributions to NATO and his dislike of the way they have economically damaged the south through the euro.
These are unprecedented times
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So what are the implications of Hamon?
Advantage Macron?0 -
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be the EU who have decided to launch a trade war not the UK. Of course more UK exports go to the U.S. than any individual EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
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viewcode said:
They think the UK leaving the EU is an act of self-harm.MTimT said:
My wife always thanks her ex for reminding her why she left him. If this is what Finland, ostensibly a UK ally within the EU, thinks of us, then we should thank them for reminding us ...MarkHopkins said:MTimT said:
Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.SouthamObserver said:Cartoon from Finland:
https://twitter.com/s2gray/status/823162258154995712
The characters should be the other way around. But then it wouldn't have been "funny".
Why do you think that's an insult?
And you don't think the idea has imprisoned, shackled and enslaved Scotland is not insulting? The idea that we have treated them unfairly, or won't give them their freedom?0 -
Both sides lied - again why do you think we will lose our EU export market and why not widen our markets worldwideSouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be the EU who have decided to launch a trade war not the UK. Of course more UK exports go to the U.S. than any individual EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
That was the whole problem, wasn't it? Donald Trump is a mind-bendingly unappealing candidate - old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had done nothing in politics, a menace to women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. However, you then remember that his opponent was also old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had spent years in politics but done nothing, is married to the only President ever to be put on criminal trial while in office due to his appalling behaviour towards young women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. Just to make two obvious comparisons, Hilary seized on the birther idea in 2008 and threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran, and Trump seized on the birther narrative...hopefully he will draw back from the second one although with Trump you can never tell. Heck, they even used to be quite good friends at one time.Sean_F said:
Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
I didn't want Trump to be president, but I cannot get worked up over the thought that Hilary lost. Had it been Bayh or even Sanders in place of Clinton, I might have reacted differently (I've never rated Biden either, who is a gaffe prone fool). But bluntly I think the two candidates were very similar and were both awful. The tragedy was that one had to become president.0 -
I can confirm that engine tests involve firing objects into the engine to see what damage occurs. They do not use frozen birds though :-)JosiasJessop said:
Being born within a turbine-blade's throw of Rolls Royce in Derby, we were always told that story, except with jet engines. The story is they fire a chicken into the engine to see how well it copes with bird strikes. Except someone once used a frozen one ...Pagan said:The one that always amused me and no idea if its true or urban myth was the chicken cannon
Apparently so the stories go aircraft windscreens are tested by firing chicken carcasses at them with the cannon and some british company borrowed one from the states but all the windscreens kept failing the test. When the us parent company investigated it was found the brits were going down to the supermarket and buying frozen chicken to fire
The first part is at least true:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSafRuLB0c0
The chicken gun is, of course, a great British invention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_gun
One thing they are looking at is for will the damage result in a contained failure.
Uncontained failures are messy and of course more hazardous.
Talking of "bird strikes" I saw one involving a condor once. it made quite a mess.
I have seen pics of strikes (on ground obviously) by various animals including a Kangaroo.
A large animal getting hit by a plane at speed makes a hell of a mess.
Sad to say it is not unknown for a human to be ingested into a jet engine.
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Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be the EU who have decided to launch a trade war not the UK. Of course more UK exports go to the U.S. than any individual EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
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Thing is I just don't get this. I bow to no one in my opposition to the EU but I really don't see how Trump's views are going to make a blind bit of difference. There is no trade deal.in place now between the US and the EU. TTIP was dead long before Trump got anywhere near power and there is no prospect of anything replacing it in the timescale that Trp is likely to have any effect over. And yet lots of trade is going on between the US and EU and will continue to do so.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
The bottom line is that the EU are sure as he'll not going to change some of their fundemental rules about how they negotiate trade deals just to.pander to Trump so his claims about doing deals with separate states are just another example of his disconnect from reality .0 -
of course center left people never attack anyone - oh no.......OldKingCole said:
I think it's because reasonable centre/centre left people get attacked by the far right.CornishBlue said:
I would say this blog reflects quite well the spread of political opinion in Britain. If you think it's particularly right-wing then perhaps you've been operating in a social media bubble..?murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
Even if they did their cause is just so it doesn't count.
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Fysics_Teacher said:
xkcd begs to differ.rcs1000 said:
I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
LOL. Balsamic is about as sweet as it comes in the vinegar department.0 -
Balsamic vinegar? An EXPENSIVE way of catching flies. Does it have to be the pure grape must DOP stuff or will the Lidl substitutel work too?rcs1000 said:
It's been tested, and balsamic vinegar is the best way to catch flies. In general, with normal vinegar, and normal flies, the honey wins.Fysics_Teacher said:
xkcd begs to differ.rcs1000 said:
I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
And Gary Johnson is the worst politician of all time.Sean_F said:
Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
What's Aleppo? FFS.
All he needed to do was come across as amenable and coherent and he'd have got himself into the debates. Trump vs Clinton was a perfect opportunity handed to him on a plate... he dropped the plate.0 -
It's not just the candidates, it's the parties. The Republicans and Democrats are both very unappealing.ydoethur said:
That was the whole problem, wasn't it? Donald Trump is a mind-bendingly unappealing candidate - old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had done nothing in politics, a menace to women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. However, you then remember that his opponent was also old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had spent years in politics but done nothing, is married to the only President ever to be put on criminal trial while in office due to his appalling behaviour towards young women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. Just to make two obvious comparisons, Hilary seized on the birther idea in 2008 and threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran, and Trump seized on the birther narrative...hopefully he will draw back from the second one although with Trump you can never tell. Heck, they even used to be quite good friends at one time.Sean_F said:
Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
I didn't want Trump to be president, but I cannot get worked up over the thought that Hilary lost. Had it been Bayh or even Sanders in place of Clinton, I might have reacted differently (I've never rated Biden either, who is a gaffe prone fool). But bluntly I think the two candidates were very similar and were both awful. The tragedy was that one had to become president.0 -
Hannan and Johnson made that claim. I did not believe them. That is why I voted remain.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.
Remain did point out repeatedly that leaving would lead to pain. Unfortunately, being told these things by the likes of Junker, Osborne and Mandelson did not sway the votes of the majority of the electorate, which is why we are leaving.
Whether they did not believe them, thought it was a price worth paying to get rid of the EU or some combination of both I have no idea and insufficient data to speculate with.0 -
Surely his disconnect from reality is the dangerRichard_Tyndall said:
Thing is I just don't get this. I bow to no one in my opposition to the EU but I really don't see how Trump's views are going to make a blind bit of difference. There is no trade deal.in place now between the US and the EU. TTIP was dead long before Trump got anywhere near power and there is no prospect of anything replacing it in the timescale that Trp is likely to have any effect over. And yet lots of trade is going on between the US and EU and will continue to do so.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
The bottom line is that the EU are sure as he'll not going to change some of their fundemental rules about how they negotiate trade deals just to.pander to Trump so his claims about doing deals with separate states are just another example of his disconnect from reality .0 -
How did Justin Huggler get a job at the Torygraph? He's their man on the spot in Koblenz, reporting on the international conference of the populist right that was addressed by Le Pen, Petry, and Wilders.
For the novel he hacked out to cash in on the gig he got with the invaders in Iraq he even got a promotional quote from Robert Fisk, praising how good he was at revealing the "cynicism and cowardice of journalists". But in his article on the Koblenz gathering he ludicrously writes
"Rival demonstrators put up statues of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin for some reason."
If he was so ignorant and lazy that he couldn't work the reason out, couldn't he have walked up to them and asked them? Or if he was too posh to do that, or if he doesn't know German, or if he only learnt about the statues from watching the TV or reading another newspaper, couldn't he have asked a hotel maid, or a bartender, or a lift attendant? And if he couldn't be bothered, why does he think that anyone gives a toss that some twerp at what used to be considered a readable paper doesn't understand an event that happened outside a meeting he was sent hundreds of miles to cover, an event that any idiot could explain to him if asked?
0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3546857/Pro-EU-lobby-treating-voters-like-children--Michael-Gove.htmlMTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.
Setting out his plan at Vote Leave's headquarters in London, Mr Gove said: "The core of our new arrangement with the EU is clear.
"There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU.
"After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
It was not credible to suggest that Britain - alongside Belarus - would be kept out of the zone.
"Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."
He added: "The idea that the German government would damage its car manufacturers - and impoverish workers in those factories - to make a political point about Britain's choices; or the French government would ignore its farmers - and damage their welfare - to strike a pose; or the Italian government would undermine its struggling industries just to please Brussels... well, that is ridiculous."0 -
I find it telling that the things the Republican Party are most excited about doing now that Trump is President are slashing taxes for the most wealthy and a repeal of Obamacare, and spending on national infrastructure and housing the least.Sean_F said:
It's not just the candidates, it's the parties. The Republicans and Democrats are both very unappealing.ydoethur said:
That was the whole problem, wasn't it? Donald Trump is a mind-bendingly unappealing candidate - old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had done nothing in politics, a menace to women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. However, you then remember that his opponent was also old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had spent years in politics but done nothing, is married to the only President ever to be put on criminal trial while in office due to his appalling behaviour towards young women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. Just to make two obvious comparisons, Hilary seized on the birther idea in 2008 and threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran, and Trump seized on the birther narrative...hopefully he will draw back from the second one although with Trump you can never tell. Heck, they even used to be quite good friends at one time.Sean_F said:
Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
I didn't want Trump to be president, but I cannot get worked up over the thought that Hilary lost. Had it been Bayh or even Sanders in place of Clinton, I might have reacted differently (I've never rated Biden either, who is a gaffe prone fool). But bluntly I think the two candidates were very similar and were both awful. The tragedy was that one had to become president.
The Democrats stand for affirmative action, migrant amnesties, unionised labour, identity politics writ-large, political correctness, and all but a total disdain of middle America.
What a choice.-1 -
Where's the pain?MTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html
0 -
"couldn't" should have been "wouldn't". ApologiesNewsTaker said:
EU GDP PPP is bigger than USA (even without the UK) so why can the EU countries not pay for an effective military? They just need to start meeting the NATO 2% minimum. Germany being the single biggest culprit in $, barely paying half its share.ReggieCide said:
The EU can never have an effective military of any description because it couldn't pay for it without USA's bucks.SouthamObserver said:
For the US to be dominant it needs smaller nations states to deal with, not big trading and military blocs. An effective EU army would underpin a strong EU: the last thing that Trump believes is in America's interests.AnneJGP said:
I hadn't picked up on Mr Trump's dislike of plans for an EU army. I thought that he'd be glad of such a thing, given that he's none too keen on NATO.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Trump is threatening BMW already with 35% tariffs if they go ahead with their new factory in Mexico.SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:
Mrs M is a very smart lady. Not someone to try to get the better of.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Have you got a link?
I share many concerns about trade wars but I think Germany is facing a huge threat from Trump, not only on the plan for an EU army which he opposes, but their contributions to NATO and his dislike of the way they have economically damaged the south through the euro.
These are unprecedented times0 -
Easy for me to say, I have never yet to fight, and likely I never will, but that's the sort of thing that helped bring down the Roman Empire.Sean_F said:
It's not just money. It's being willing to kill your enemies, and to take casualties. Civilised governments prefer to pay people to litigate against their own soldiers.NewsTaker said:
EU GDP PPP is bigger than USA (even without the UK) so why can the EU countries not pay for an effective military? They just need to start meeting the NATO 2% minimum. Germany being the single biggest culprit in $, barely paying half its share.ReggieCide said:
The EU can never have an effective military of any description because it couldn't pay for it without USA's bucks.SouthamObserver said:
For the US to be dominant it needs smaller nations states to deal with, not big trading and military blocs. An effective EU army would underpin a strong EU: the last thing that Trump believes is in America's interests.AnneJGP said:
I hadn't picked up on Mr Trump's dislike of plans for an EU army. I thought that he'd be glad of such a thing, given that he's none too keen on NATO.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Trump is threatening BMW already with 35% tariffs if they go ahead with their new factory in Mexico.SouthamObserver said:
The US will win any trade war with the EU in the short-term, however smart Merkel is. But longer term, it will do tremendous damage to itself, as well as to others. However much Trump may wish it, the US cannot shield itself from the global economy.Roger said:
Mrs M is a very smart lady. Not someone to try to get the better of.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
Have you got a link?
I share many concerns about trade wars but I think Germany is facing a huge threat from Trump, not only on the plan for an EU army which he opposes, but their contributions to NATO and his dislike of the way they have economically damaged the south through the euro.
These are unprecedented times
Sooner or later your enemies call your bluff.0 -
True. It's still vinegar though.MTimT said:Fysics_Teacher said:
xkcd begs to differ.rcs1000 said:
I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.Big_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
LOL. Balsamic is about as sweet as it comes in the vinegar department.0 -
A choice between sticking your head in a bucket of shit (Republicans) or a bucket of acid (Democrats)Casino_Royale said:
I find it telling that the things the Republican Party are most excited about doing now that Trump is President are slashing taxes for the most wealthy and a repeal of Obamacare, and spending on national infrastructure and housing the least.Sean_F said:
It's not just the candidates, it's the parties. The Republicans and Democrats are both very unappealing.ydoethur said:
That was the whole problem, wasn't it? Donald Trump is a mind-bendingly unappealing candidate - old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had done nothing in politics, a menace to women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. However, you then remember that his opponent was also old, incompetent, rich, mired in dubious business dealings, had spent years in politics but done nothing, is married to the only President ever to be put on criminal trial while in office due to his appalling behaviour towards young women, thin skinned and aggressive and oozing entitlement from every pore. Just to make two obvious comparisons, Hilary seized on the birther idea in 2008 and threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran, and Trump seized on the birther narrative...hopefully he will draw back from the second one although with Trump you can never tell. Heck, they even used to be quite good friends at one time.Sean_F said:
Neither candidate deserved to win.murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
I didn't want Trump to be president, but I cannot get worked up over the thought that Hilary lost. Had it been Bayh or even Sanders in place of Clinton, I might have reacted differently (I've never rated Biden either, who is a gaffe prone fool). But bluntly I think the two candidates were very similar and were both awful. The tragedy was that one had to become president.
The Democrats stand for affirmative action, migrant amnesties, unionised labour, identity politics writ-large, political correctness, and all but a total disdain of middle America.
What a choice.0 -
0
-
that surely makes you an anarchist?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I voted Labour at GE2015murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
BTW feel free to start your own left-wing blog.0 -
Unchallenged, he seems minded to threaten many of the hardest-won achievements of recent British foreign policy: welcoming the disintegration of the EU (Steve Bannon, his adviser, reportedly wants to build closer links with continental parties promoting that), weakening NATO, applauding Mr Putin’s adventurism, ripping up climate-change accords and the nuclear deal with Iran. Britain has shed blood and treasure in pursuit of these goals. Its exports to the rest of the EU are worth £171bn, compared with the £45bn value of those to America. To cheer on or turn a blind eye to such vandalism in the spirit of continental one-upmanship would be utterly short-sighted, doing diplomatic and economic damage that would far outlast the four- or eight-year span of Mr Trump’s presidency. Let Britain not become Europe’s answer to Chris Christie.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2017/01/special-relationship?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/thespecialrelationshipbritainshouldseekdonaldtrumpsrespectnothisaffection0 -
One of the things I find most irritating is the elision between access to the single market and membership of the same. It's a bit like the confusion between deficit and debt back in the halcyon days when we worried about such things.williamglenn said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3546857/Pro-EU-lobby-treating-voters-like-children--Michael-Gove.htmlMTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.
Setting out his plan at Vote Leave's headquarters in London, Mr Gove said: "The core of our new arrangement with the EU is clear.
"There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU.
"After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
It was not credible to suggest that Britain - alongside Belarus - would be kept out of the zone.
"Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."
He added: "The idea that the German government would damage its car manufacturers - and impoverish workers in those factories - to make a political point about Britain's choices; or the French government would ignore its farmers - and damage their welfare - to strike a pose; or the Italian government would undermine its struggling industries just to please Brussels... well, that is ridiculous."0 -
shouldn't that be a kilometre?SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be the EU who have decided to launch a trade war not the UK. Of course more UK exports go to the U.S. than any individual EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
It is dumb but if course the main reason is that Wyoming is a massive coal producer. These guys are putting Trumpism into practice early.rcs1000 said:
Surely utilities should make all decisions for economic reasons? Banning the use of one type - irrespective of cost - is not going to make bills cheaper.weejonnie said:
Well the average wyoming american citizen will presumably see their electricty bill come down as a result. And I am sure the renewable industry will just decamp en masse to California where they are sure of a warm welcome.rcs1000 said:Story of the day: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2017/0119/New-Wyoming-bill-forbids-utilities-from-using-renewables
Not subsidising renewables is one thing. Banning them altogether is something else.0 -
So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.0 -
Do you believe the language in Vote Leave's position statement is intended to mislead and which 'zone' do you think they're referring to? They speak about remaining in a 'free trade zone' which clearly goes beyond mere 'access to' the single market.Fysics_Teacher said:
One of the things I find most irritating is the elision between access to the single market and membership of the same. It's a bit like the confusion between deficit and debt back in the halcyon days when we worried about such things.williamglenn said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3546857/Pro-EU-lobby-treating-voters-like-children--Michael-Gove.htmlMTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.
Setting out his plan at Vote Leave's headquarters in London, Mr Gove said: "The core of our new arrangement with the EU is clear.
"There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU.
"After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
It was not credible to suggest that Britain - alongside Belarus - would be kept out of the zone.
"Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."
He added: "The idea that the German government would damage its car manufacturers - and impoverish workers in those factories - to make a political point about Britain's choices; or the French government would ignore its farmers - and damage their welfare - to strike a pose; or the Italian government would undermine its struggling industries just to please Brussels... well, that is ridiculous."0 -
The best result for Macron would have been Montebourg but Hamon would be better for him than Valls. Regardless of who is P.S. nominee though all the polls now show a Le Pen v Fillon run offParistonda said:So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.0 -
The Leave vote won and on a platform of controlling free movement which all the polls show Leave voters put above full single market access on a forced choice. 56% of UK exports now go outside the EUSouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people who voted to Leave the EU, the Tory leader at the time wanted us to Remain as did the present PM. The majority of Leave voters wanted control of free movement and if the EU refuse to allow that at all and allow full access to the single market at the same time it will be theSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
Walking away from the EU, not negotiating a new agreement with the EU or putting up any new trade barriers will bring about a 4% gain in GDP, consumer price fall of 8% and an expansion of the UK’s competitive services sector to take the place of diminishing manufacturing output.SouthamObserver said:
Where's the pain?MTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html
(Economists for Brexit - Minford, Bootle etc)0 -
AfD still a clear third and more than double their 2013 totalTheuniondivvie said:0 -
I don't know if it is intended to misslead, but I think it is at best ambiguous. It's the 'access to' phrase that I get irritated by as it is difficult to forsee circumstances under which we would not have access.williamglenn said:
Do you believe the language in Vote Leave's position statement is intended to mislead and which 'zone' do you think they're referring to? They speak about remaining in a 'free trade zone' which clearly goes beyond mere 'access to' the single market.Fysics_Teacher said:
One of the things I find most irritating is the elision between access to the single market and membership of the same. It's a bit like the confusion between deficit and debt back in the halcyon days when we worried about such things.williamglenn said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3546857/Pro-EU-lobby-treating-voters-like-children--Michael-Gove.htmlMTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.
Setting out his plan at Vote Leave's headquarters in London, Mr Gove said: "The core of our new arrangement with the EU is clear.
"There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU.
"After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
It was not credible to suggest that Britain - alongside Belarus - would be kept out of the zone.
"Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."
He added: "The idea that the German government would damage its car manufacturers - and impoverish workers in those factories - to make a political point about Britain's choices; or the French government would ignore its farmers - and damage their welfare - to strike a pose; or the Italian government would undermine its struggling industries just to please Brussels... well, that is ridiculous."
Reading it more carefully you are right: the zone they are refering to is the free trade zone itself, not the group of contries with access to it.
0 -
Or 3rd place coming through again :-)HYUFD said:
The best result for Macron would have been Montebourg but Hamon would be better for him than Valls. Regardless of who is P.S. nominee though all the polls now show a Le Pen v Fillon run offParistonda said:So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.
I am on Hamon at 250 thanks to Chris in Paris.0 -
That the pain is not mentioned is not the same as saying that there will be no pain. Again, where's the citation? Same applies to Mr Glenn's response.SouthamObserver said:
Where's the pain?MTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html0 -
murali thinks all Brexiteers are "right wing".ReggieCide said:
that surely makes you an anarchist?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I voted Labour at GE2015murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
BTW feel free to start your own left-wing blog.0 -
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.MTimT said:
That the pain is not mentioned is not the same as saying that there will be no pain. Again, where's the citation? Same applies to Mr Glenn's response.SouthamObserver said:
Where's the pain?MTimT said:
Citation for who told you leaving would be painless, please.SouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was EU nation and more to the rest of the world than the EUSouthamObserver said:
Bloody the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html0 -
0
-
I don't understand the big hoo-har over this Trident thing? What relevence does a recent missile test problem have in a debate for/against a replacement of Trident?0
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The UK government should be wary of being led up the garden path by Trump. He could just as easily turn his back, or use the US-UK trade talks as a pawn in discussions with a more important counterparty.0
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So what? Nearly half of all our exports go to somewhere you say we are about to have a trade war with. The British people were never at any stage told about that.HYUFD said:
The Leave vote won and on a platform of controlling free movement which all the polls show Leave voters put above full single market access on a forced choice. 56% of UK exports now go outside the EUSouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people whohe single market at the same time it will be theSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
0 -
It's remarkable that having had two votes go against them, certain sections of the community now consider that we're living in an age of totalitarianism. The contempt for ordinary people is breathtaking.0
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Yes, Hamon looks to have done a Fillonfoxinsoxuk said:
Or 3rd place coming through again :-)HYUFD said:
The best result for Macron would have been Montebourg but Hamon would be better for him than Valls. Regardless of who is P.S. nominee though all the polls now show a Le Pen v Fillon run offParistonda said:So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.
I am on Hamon at 250 thanks to Chris in Paris.0 -
If that happens, a huge shout out should go to David Herdson for tipping Hamon at north of 120/1.Paristonda said:So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.
I should make a nice little bit off that as a trading bet.
I think a Le Pen v. Macron fight will be closer than Le Pen v. Fillion, so, if that starts to look likely, I won't be laying Le Pen much more at current odds, because I think they'll shorten.0 -
There is no question of Britain cheering it on. Did the Economist not hear Theresa May's speech?SouthamObserver said:Unchallenged, he seems minded to threaten many of the hardest-won achievements of recent British foreign policy: welcoming the disintegration of the EU (Steve Bannon, his adviser, reportedly wants to build closer links with continental parties promoting that), weakening NATO, applauding Mr Putin’s adventurism, ripping up climate-change accords and the nuclear deal with Iran. Britain has shed blood and treasure in pursuit of these goals. Its exports to the rest of the EU are worth £171bn, compared with the £45bn value of those to America. To cheer on or turn a blind eye to such vandalism in the spirit of continental one-upmanship would be utterly short-sighted, doing diplomatic and economic damage that would far outlast the four- or eight-year span of Mr Trump’s presidency. Let Britain not become Europe’s answer to Chris Christie.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2017/01/special-relationship?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/thespecialrelationshipbritainshouldseekdonaldtrumpsrespectnothisaffection
We want a trade deal, and also an opportunity to use our influence to moderate Trump and his team, forlorn though that may ultimately turn out to be.0 -
It's not just pull up the drawbridge - it's load the cannon, too.SouthamObserver said:
So what? Nearly half of all our exports go to somewhere you say we are about to have a trade war with. The British people were never at any stage told about that.HYUFD said:
The Leave vote won and on a platform of controlling free movement which all the polls show Leave voters put above full single market access on a forced choice. 56% of UK exports now go outside the EUSouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.HYUFD said:
It was the British people whohe single market at the same time it will be theSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That will
0 -
he must be a LondonerSunil_Prasannan said:
murali thinks all Brexiteers are "right wing".ReggieCide said:
that surely makes you an anarchist?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I voted Labour at GE2015murali_s said:
Welcome to the World of Trump where black is white and white is black.The_Apocalypse said:Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
I know this is a right-wing blog with quite a few nutters but did/does anyone actually support Trump here?
BTW feel free to start your own left-wing blog.0 -
A bill to take the US out of the United Nations has been introduced to Congress by a former member of Trump's transition team...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/all-info0 -
It doesn't.Gallowgate said:I don't understand the big hoo-har over this Trident thing? What relevence does a recent missile test problem have in a debate for/against a replacement of Trident?
But the media, being comprised of utter thickos, think that they're onto something HUGE. I mean, really HUGE.
(lol)0 -
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy the benefits of club membership is not a declaration of war, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. The EU cannot be blamed if Tory Leavers lied to the British people. And, as you know, the EU is our single biggest export market, by a country mile.
The Leave vote won and on a platform of controlling free movement which all the polls show Leave voters put above full single market access on a forced choice. 56% of UK exports now go outside the EU
SO said
So what? Nearly half of all our exports go to somewhere you say we are about to have a trade war with. The British people were never at any stage told about that.
You are still in denial about the nature of the internal market. It's protectionist0 -
I am sure that HMG will be aware of the pros and cons of our relationship with Trump and indeed I do not consider this meeting later in this week with Trump by Theresa May as a walk in the park.williamglenn said:The UK government should be wary of being led up the garden path by Trump. He could just as easily turn his back, or use the US-UK trade talks as a pawn in discussions with a more important counterparty.
Sky reporting a state visit to UK for Trump later this year with an accompanied visit to the war rooms with Boris
0 -
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.0 -
If even his own party cannot influence Trump, what chance of foreigners doing so?Casino_Royale said:
There is no question of Britain cheering it on. Did the Economist not hear Theresa May's speech?SouthamObserver said:Unchallenged, he seems minded to threaten many of the hardest-won achievements of recent British foreign policy: welcoming the disintegration of the EU (Steve Bannon, his adviser, reportedly wants to build closer links with continental parties promoting that), weakening NATO, applauding Mr Putin’s adventurism, ripping up climate-change accords and the nuclear deal with Iran. Britain has shed blood and treasure in pursuit of these goals. Its exports to the rest of the EU are worth £171bn, compared with the £45bn value of those to America. To cheer on or turn a blind eye to such vandalism in the spirit of continental one-upmanship would be utterly short-sighted, doing diplomatic and economic damage that would far outlast the four- or eight-year span of Mr Trump’s presidency. Let Britain not become Europe’s answer to Chris Christie.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2017/01/special-relationship?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/thespecialrelationshipbritainshouldseekdonaldtrumpsrespectnothisaffection
We want a trade deal, and also an opportunity to use our influence to moderate Trump and his team, forlorn though that may ultimately turn out to be.0 -
And NATO.williamglenn said:A bill to take the US out of the United Nations has been introduced to Congress by a former member of Trump's transition team...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/all-info0 -
USexit?williamglenn said:A bill to take the US out of the United Nations has been introduced to Congress by a former member of Trump's transition team...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/all-info0 -
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"0 -
@ReggieCidev- no, I am in denial about any notion that prior to the referendum voters were told that Brexit would entail a trade war with the EU. HYUFD seems to be implying that this was and is the natural consequence of our vote to Leave. I beg to differ.
Yes, the single market is protectionist. Just like all other markets.0 -
So we just accept what he says - this will be a big test for Theresa May and it is not just the UK who must hope she can have some influence but the EU as wellfoxinsoxuk said:
If even his own party cannot influence Trump, what chance of foreigners doing so?Casino_Royale said:
There is no question of Britain cheering it on. Did the Economist not hear Theresa May's speech?SouthamObserver said:Unchallenged, he seems minded to threaten many of the hardest-won achievements of recent British foreign policy: welcoming the disintegration of the EU (Steve Bannon, his adviser, reportedly wants to build closer links with continental parties promoting that), weakening NATO, applauding Mr Putin’s adventurism, ripping up climate-change accords and the nuclear deal with Iran. Britain has shed blood and treasure in pursuit of these goals. Its exports to the rest of the EU are worth £171bn, compared with the £45bn value of those to America. To cheer on or turn a blind eye to such vandalism in the spirit of continental one-upmanship would be utterly short-sighted, doing diplomatic and economic damage that would far outlast the four- or eight-year span of Mr Trump’s presidency. Let Britain not become Europe’s answer to Chris Christie.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2017/01/special-relationship?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/thespecialrelationshipbritainshouldseekdonaldtrumpsrespectnothisaffection
We want a trade deal, and also an opportunity to use our influence to moderate Trump and his team, forlorn though that may ultimately turn out to be.0 -
@ TimB Wishing your were an Atlanta fan now, rather than a 'Boy?0
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It was the chicken ingestion test that definitively bankrupted rolls Royce in 1971 and almost did the same to their customer Lockheed. The RB211 engine had innovative carbon fibre fan blades, which shattered on contact with the chicken.JosiasJessop said:
Being born within a turbine-blade's throw of Rolls Royce in Derby, we were always told that story, except with jet engines. The story is they fire a chicken into the engine to see how well it copes with bird strikes. Except someone once used a frozen one ...Pagan said:The one that always amused me and no idea if its true or urban myth was the chicken cannon
Apparently so the stories go aircraft windscreens are tested by firing chicken carcasses at them with the cannon and some british company borrowed one from the states but all the windscreens kept failing the test. When the us parent company investigated it was found the brits were going down to the supermarket and buying frozen chicken to fire
The first part is at least true:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSafRuLB0c0
The chicken gun is, of course, a great British invention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_gun
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_RB2110 -
This from Newsnight shows there is nothing new under the sun, and written by none other than Plato and Socrates:John_M said:It's remarkable that having had two votes go against them, certain sections of the community now consider that we're living in an age of totalitarianism. The contempt for ordinary people is breathtaking.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/8221442096878755850 -
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"0 -
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"0 -
YanxitCornishBlue said:
USexit?williamglenn said:A bill to take the US out of the United Nations has been introduced to Congress by a former member of Trump's transition team...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/all-info0 -
Latest polling has Fillon v Le Pen slightly tighter than Macron v Le Pen though not much in itCasino_Royale said:
If that happens, a huge shout out should go to David Herdson for tipping Hamon at north of 120/1.Paristonda said:So another polling surprise in France. Montebourg fell well short of expectations. I guess he ended up being the squeezed middle, Hamon outflanked him on the left, Valls on the right. It's probably near certain that Hamon wins the nomination considering he will get the vast majority of transfers from Montebourg, which means the trailing 3rd place candidate in both primary contests ended coming through and winning!
Good for Macron, bad for Melenchon. I think a Le Pen v Macron round 2 is getting more likely. The two of them will both be turning their fire very heavily on Fillon now, he will struggle to fight both flanks at once.
I should make a nice little bit off that as a trading bet.
I think a Le Pen v. Macron fight will be closer than Le Pen v. Fillion, so, if that starts to look likely, I won't be laying Le Pen much more at current odds, because I think they'll shorten.0 -
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"0 -
The majority of British people who voted Leave did so to control free movement if the EU refuses to compromise all the polls show a majority of Leave voters put controlling free movement first even if the EU force a trade warSouthamObserver said:
So what? Nearly half of all our exports go to somewhere you say we are about to have a trade war with. The British people were never at any stage told about that.HYUFD said:
The Leave vote won and on a platform of controlling free movement which all the polls show Leave voters put above full single market access on a forced choice. 56% of UK exports now go outside the EUSouthamObserver said:
We were told that leaving the EU would be painless. No-one said anything about a trade war. Saying that we need to follow the rules to enjoy theHYUFD said:
It was the British people whohe single market at the same time it will be theSouthamObserver said:
Bloody hell - surely Tory Brexit cannot involve initiating a trade war with our single biggest export market. That would be disastrous. There seems to be very little that the Tories will not inflict on the British people in order to get us out of the EU.HYUFD said:
The UK is about to enter a trade war with the EU because it refuses to separate controlSouthamObserver said:
The tariffs.HYUFD said:
Any deal which expands exports to our largest export market will show that the UK has alternatives when the inevitable tariffs from the EU arrive, it is just a question of trying to minimise themSouthamObserver said:
No deal will be done before we leave the EU and then it would depend on what the terms of the deal are. One that essentially leaves us where we are now, or whichHYUFD said:
Yes in negotiationsSouthamObserver said:
There toHYUFD said:
There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talksSouthamObserver said:
Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That willBig_G_NorthWales said:The proposed US ambassador of dissent against Merkel and Germany.
Things are not going to get any easier for the EU0 -
LOL Schauble now saying the UK should seek a Swiss-style deal:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-latest-eu-germany-wolfgang-schaeuble-finance-minister-hard-brexit-immigration-switzerland-a7540506.html
Summary:
EU: You cannot have the Single Market without Freedom of Movement
UK: Understood, so we won't seek the Single Market
EU: You misunderstand. You must have a deal which includes Freedom of Movement.
Coming to a theatre near you soon:
UK: Read my lips.0 -
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"0 -
More fool the people who preceded him for not realising where they werefoxinsoxuk said:
This from Newsnight shows there is nothing new under the sun, and written by none other than Plato and Socrates:John_M said:It's remarkable that having had two votes go against them, certain sections of the community now consider that we're living in an age of totalitarianism. The contempt for ordinary people is breathtaking.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/8221442096878755850 -
There is no need for a new phrase for American Isolationism. America First is what the Trumpster says.Sunil_Prasannan said:
YanxitCornishBlue said:
USexit?williamglenn said:A bill to take the US out of the United Nations has been introduced to Congress by a former member of Trump's transition team...
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/all-info
The US Isolationism of the interwar years does have more than a few echoes:
http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/uhic/ReferenceDetailsPage/ReferenceDetailsWindow?failOverType=&query=&prodId=UHIC&windowstate=normal&contentModules=&display-query=&mode=view&displayGroupName=Reference&dviSelectedPage=&limiter=&currPage=&disableHighlighting=true&displayGroups=&sortBy=&zid=&search_within_results=&p=UHIC:WHIC&action=e&catId=&activityType=&scanId=&documentId=GALE|CX2876500047&source=Bookmark&u=imgacademy&jsid=c1b63883e4fa44f488e3cf929f8aabdc0 -
Depends which STI you contract?TheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"
0 -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15051602.pdfTheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"
Andrea Leadsom - "It will be as easy as we want it to be." "Totally, absolutely" a fast and easy negotiation.0 -
After a few hospital stays I can think of serveral things that were quick and easy but by no means painless. You probably don't want details...TheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"0 -
When Trump recited "the Snake" he appeared to be talking about migrants; but it seems to me that he was hiding in plain sight. The Snake that he refers to is himself, in the White House.isam said:
More fool the people who preceded him for not realising where they werefoxinsoxuk said:
This from Newsnight shows there is nothing new under the sun, and written by none other than Plato and Socrates:John_M said:It's remarkable that having had two votes go against them, certain sections of the community now consider that we're living in an age of totalitarianism. The contempt for ordinary people is breathtaking.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/822144209687875585
https://youtu.be/tKJlhn_KQL00 -
We know how that ended for Bush Sr.MTimT said:
UK: Read my lips.0 -
No. The clear overall sense of the debate was one side shouting Armageddon and the other side either ignoring the pain side or, if pressed, saying that there would be short-term pain that would be more than offset in the longer-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"
Surbiton is trying to create revisionist history, but it is still a crock of shit, even if Mr Glenn and you try to say it ain't so.
It is quick and easy to perform certain types of surgery. They are not usually painless.0 -
williamglenn said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15051602.pdfTheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"
Andrea Leadsom - "It will be as easy as we want it to be." "Totally, absolutely" a fast and easy negotiation.
Delivering the A50 notification with a note saying we would not be negotiating but instead immediately falling back on WTO rules would indeed be quick and easy. So to that extent, Leadsom was entirely right.0 -
How viable would California be as an independent country?
Could Trump stop it?
Would Trump stop it?
Edit: lol someone's already polled it post election;
https://cbssanfran.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/survey_usa_111616.pdf
23% support
57% oppose0 -
I understand.MTimT said:
No. The clear overall sense of the debate was one side shouting Armageddon and the other side either ignoring the pain side or, if pressed, saying that there would be short-term pain that would be more than offset in the longer-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
Would you say the phrase 'quick and easy' is a synonym for 'painless'?MTimT said:
It still does not say it will be painless. You have to have been a half-wit to have been convinced by what was actually said that we were being told it would be painless. You had one side claiming immediate financial armageddon (now denied, or postponed) and the other countering those ridiculous claims, with some ridiculous arguments of their own. But no-one said it would be painless.williamglenn said:
You were pedantic enough to insist on that precise word. This is clear enough though:MTimT said:
So, one news article on an obscure website claims that Germany will make it painless and Surbiton takes that to mean he has been promised it will be painless? Pathetic!williamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/status/719185720968089600MTimT said:
It is still not Surbiton's claim to have been told it would be painless.williamglenn said:
Gove said 'it would be ridiculous' for the UK not to be allowed to remain in a 'free trade zone'. I think that's pretty close to saying that a painless transition will be easy.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6266/why_germany_will_ensure_a_painless_brexit
"Why Germany will ensure a painless Brexit"
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571296.Boris_Johnson__EU_tariffs_would_be__insane__if_UK_backs_Brexit/
Boris Johnson drew cheers from the crowd, saying: "I must say that I think that it was extraordinary to hear that we would have tariffs imposed on us because everybody knows that this country receives about a fifth of Germany's entire car manufacturing output - 820,000 vehicles a year.
"Do you seriously suppose that they are going to be so insane as to allow tariffs to be imposed between Britain and Germany?"
Surbiton is trying to create revisionist history, but it is still a crock of shit, even if Mr Glenn and you try to say it ain't so.
It is quick and easy to perform certain types of surgery. They are not usually painless.0 -
The Calexit campaign has offices in Moscow and has been seeking funding in Russia. It might be a potential source of disagreement between Trump and Putin.Pong said:How viable would California be as an independent country?
Could Trump stop it?
Would Trump stop it?0 -
1) California has some very well documented budget deficit issues, and they are also one major earthquake away from an unsustainable budgetPong said:How viable would California be as an independent country?
Could Trump stop it?
Would Trump stop it?
2) Yes, there's a belief that no state can secede from the United States
3) No, 50 odd electoral college votes lost for the Democrats would cheer up the GOP no end.0 -
Sounds like Scotland.TheScreamingEagles said:
1) California has some very well documented budget deficit issues, and they are also one major earthquake away from an unsustainable budgetPong said:How viable would California be as an independent country?
Could Trump stop it?
Would Trump stop it?
2) Yes, there's a belief that no state can secede from the United States
3) No, 50 odd electoral college votes lost for the Democrats would cheer up the GOP no end.0 -
Except with less suntlg86 said:
Sounds like Scotland.TheScreamingEagles said:
1) California has some very well documented budget deficit issues, and they are also one major earthquake away from an unsustainable budgetPong said:How viable would California be as an independent country?
Could Trump stop it?
Would Trump stop it?
2) Yes, there's a belief that no state can secede from the United States
3) No, 50 odd electoral college votes lost for the Democrats would cheer up the GOP no end.0
This discussion has been closed.