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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on Mrs May outdistancing Mrs Thatcher’s tenure as Prim

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Comments

  • Happy Birthday Malcolm.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,146
    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    The one we had locally when I was a child was more emphatic than that.

    It is forbidden to throw stones at this sign.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Happy Birthday Malcolm
  • Happy Birthday Malcolm.

    Aye, orra best malc.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    I think she'll do around five to seven years.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2017
    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    ...Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Happy Bday, Malc!

    Cheers Southam, brilliant cartoon
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    ...Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Happy Bday, Malc!

    Cheers
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Happy Birthday Malcolm.

    Cheers TSE
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,146
    TOPPING said:

    Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Yes, many happy returns, @malcolmg
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    TOPPING said:

    Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Cheers Topping and TUD
  • perdix said:

    Trident issues could have implications within Labour too. Brings the issue into the spotlight again, so can't bury it. And a big shot in the arm for the abolitionists. Harder to get them to keep their traps shut.

    Not good news for May either, but I wonder how much will ultimately come out about all this.

    All complex weapons systems have to undergo regular testing. There will occasionally be bugs which need sorting. It appears that the sub and the crew were certified as having passed the test. Perhaps the US designed missile had the bug. Nothing will come of this non story.

    From the last thread....

    At the risk of introducing facts.. as far as I can tell, since the beginning of the TRident II program, there have been 157 successful flight tests and 6 failures (including partial successes).

    The classic method for estimating the maximum probability of failure is a very simple equation :

    failures / total flights

    See https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120013705.pdf

    which gives us :

    6/163 = 0.0368 = 3.6% maximum chance of failure.

    This is considered a harsh maximum estimate, since most of the failures occurred in the early days of the program - which then conformed to the classic "bathtub" curve of early failures followed by massive increase in reliability.

    This enables us to say that Trident II is reliable at delivering it's warheads to target as a *lower bound* (i.e. it is almost certainly better than this) of 96.3%

    Which in historical terms makes it one of the most reliable weapons in human history....
    Haven't you heard we are now in the post-truth / post-fact era....
    The political implications aren't going to depend on facts and figures over failure rates. I can't see this being an issue that Tory rebels would find it politically convenient or timely to hang an attack on May on. But I think we could be in for a couple of years of "May misled parliament over nuclear failure" on Twitter.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Yes, many happy returns, @malcolmg
    Thank you Anne
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?
  • Agree with its premise or not, that's an outstanding cartoon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    GIN1138 said:

    I think she'll do around five to seven years.

    GIN sounds about maximum, any sense she would walk next election and get out after 12 to 18 months. Though there is always the chance of a disaster and a Labour comeback.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    "This page left intentionally blank"
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    malcolmg said:

    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Yes, many happy returns, @malcolmg
    Thank you Anne
    Happy birthday Malcolm. A well-timed date - no point sobering up now till after Burns night.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963

    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?

    Agree, it's a pretty naff cartoon.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    First, we have aircraft carriers with no aircrafts on them. Then we have a missile system @ £40bn which when fired towards North Korea hits the US!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Ishmael_Z said:

    malcolmg said:

    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Yes, many happy returns, @malcolmg
    Thank you Anne
    Happy birthday Malcolm. A well-timed date - no point sobering up now till after Burns night.
    Cheers Ishmael
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Surbiton, the point of testing is to find any potential problems with a system.

    As for the carriers/aircraft: remind me which wise man signed a contract that made it cheaper to build two aircraft carriers than it was to cancel one of them?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Essexit said:

    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?

    Agree, it's a pretty naff cartoon.
    Where is your sense of humour or appreciation of reality
  • Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?

    It's a good cartoon. It can mean many things. One might be that in leaving the EU Britannia is harming itself because it will cease to exist.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,894
    surbiton said:

    First, we have aircraft carriers with no aircrafts on them. Then we have a missile system @ £40bn which when fired towards North Korea hits the US!

    Actually it was fired towards Spain. Is there something about Gibraltar we don’t know?
  • Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Mr. Surbiton, the point of testing is to find any potential problems with a system.

    As for the carriers/aircraft: remind me which wise man signed a contract that made it cheaper to build two aircraft carriers than it was to cancel one of them?

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    surbiton said:

    First, we have aircraft carriers with no aircrafts on them. Then we have a missile system @ £40bn which when fired towards North Korea hits the US!

    Actually it was fired towards Spain. Is there something about Gibraltar we don’t know?
    Thought they were abondoning Gibralter as part of Brexit outcome
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,899

    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    One is reality affirming and the other is reality denying.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Essexit said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    "This page left intentionally blank"
    If you read any IBM manuals in the 1970s, this was a common one. In fact it was useful, you knew you hadn't missed any pages
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Clearly not so bad. Only sawing off the nondominant hand. Just a bit crap.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?

    Agree, it's a pretty naff cartoon.
    Where is your sense of humour or appreciation of reality
    Present and correct. Happy Birthday!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,913

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    I may be wrong, but that looks like the worst Photoshop ever. I'm assuming it's a joke.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    A spoof, but this guy makes a lot of pertinent points (again)...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RMwjaZouNY


    Thanks for that link............

    That is what my wife has to put up with every morning when I wake up and start the day reading the papers.......
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

  • glwglw Posts: 10,011
    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
  • Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.
    SO is something of a sucker for fake news stories. He's made a fool of himself repeatedly.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    I may be wrong, but that looks like the worst Photoshop ever. I'm assuming it's a joke.
    From having a quick look at the associated Twitter account I don't think it's meant as a joke, follows a lot of accounts that have Ibrox in the background of the profile picture.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited January 2017
    Rather an internal contradiction in that inept scribble.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Surbiton, Cameron was weak on Defence. But he didn't joyride it nearly as hard as Labour, nor did he starve it out funds whilst splurging on every other department.

    Mr. Glenn, could you explain what you mean?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    Essexit said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    "This page left intentionally blank"
    If you read any IBM manuals in the 1970s, this was a common one. In fact it was useful, you knew you hadn't missed any pages
    I have to say I use that in all the formatted documents I create.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    MTimT said:

    Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.

    The characters should be the other way around. But then it wouldn't have been "funny".

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,782
    edited January 2017
    Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Mr. Surbiton, Cameron was weak on Defence. But he didn't joyride it nearly as hard as Labour, nor did he starve it out funds whilst splurging on every other department.

    Mr. Glenn, could you explain what you mean?

    Defence spending was cut by the Conservatives under Thatcher and Major, then increased by Labour under Blair and Brown, then cut by the Conservative-led coalition under Cameron.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.

    The characters should be the other way around. But then it wouldn't have been "funny".

    My wife always thanks her ex for reminding her why she left him. If this is what Finland, ostensibly a UK ally within the EU, thinks of us, then we should thank them for reminding us ...
  • Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

    Always worth checking the number of RFC, WATP, 'Sturgeons treachery' types who follow these accounts.
  • MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.

    The characters should be the other way around. But then it wouldn't have been "funny".

    My wife always thanks her ex for reminding her why she left him. If this is what Finland, ostensibly a UK ally within the EU, thinks of us, then we should thank them for reminding us ...

    Snowflake ;-)

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.
    SO is something of a sucker for fake news stories. He's made a fool of himself repeatedly.
    Perhaps you might this like Monika? You have to admit the guy has an eye rather than just dismissing him as crap.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Rather an internal contradiction in that inept scribble.
    I'm sure Finns are happy to keep bailing out Greece and will be happy to take a quota of refugees.

    There is no anti-e.u party in the Finnish government is there?
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    On the Tube in London, they have doors, with locks on them, that have a sign saying: "Keep door locked at all times."
  • Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

    Always worth checking the number of RFC, WATP, 'Sturgeons treachery' types who follow these accounts.

    Note to self: don't go near Scottish football.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017
    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,551
    nunu said:

    Rather an internal contradiction in that inept scribble.
    I'm sure Finns are happy to keep bailing out Greece and will be happy to take a quota of refugees.

    There is no anti-e.u party in the Finnish government is there?
    Finns Party.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Mr. Surbiton, Cameron was weak on Defence. But he didn't joyride it nearly as hard as Labour, nor did he starve it out funds whilst splurging on every other department.

    Mr. Glenn, could you explain what you mean?

    Defence spending was cut by the Conservatives under Thatcher and Major, then increased by Labour under Blair and Brown, then cut by the Conservative-led coalition under Cameron.
    Just like in the US, Republican Presidents increase the deficit and then Democrat Presidents reduce it.
  • tyson said:

    Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.
    SO is something of a sucker for fake news stories. He's made a fool of himself repeatedly.
    Perhaps you might this like Monika? You have to admit the guy has an eye rather than just dismissing him as crap.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
    He's a foul-mouthed bore. La tua povera moglie.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Mr. Observer, I'm intrigued that leaving the EU is portrayed as an act of self-harm, but Scotland leaving the UK as an act of freedom.

    A decade ago, we had a Scottish PM and Scottish Chancellor. When did we have both leading positions in the EU? And the impact of the UK leaving the EU single market is less than the impact of Scotland leaving the UK single market.

    So, why's one tomfoolery and the other breaking the shackles of, er, a democratic country which Scotland recently voted to remain within?

    Agree, it's a pretty naff cartoon.
    Where is your sense of humour or appreciation of reality
    Present and correct. Happy Birthday!
    Cheers
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

    Always worth checking the number of RFC, WATP, 'Sturgeons treachery' types who follow these accounts.
    Pretty horrendous if true , even for old firm
  • Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

    Always worth checking the number of RFC, WATP, 'Sturgeons treachery' types who follow these accounts.

    Note to self: don't go near Scottish football.

    This tweet from Coral during the recent Old Firm match and the replies therein are a thing of beauty.

    https://twitter.com/Coral/status/815173793954009092
  • surbiton said:

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
    Only one person is showing their ignorance here and that is you. The Sea Harriers- the ones that actually fly from aircraft carriers were withdrawn from service in 2006 exactly as GLW stated. The GR9 Harriers flown by the RAF until 2011 were not suitable for either carrier operations or air defence as they were primarily ground attack aircraft.

    Learn some basic facts before you attack others.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,770
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    Funny, but based on a falsehood. If one nation is chained to make escape difficult, it is the UK, not Scotland.

    The characters should be the other way around. But then it wouldn't have been "funny".

    My wife always thanks her ex for reminding her why she left him. If this is what Finland, ostensibly a UK ally within the EU, thinks of us, then we should thank them for reminding us ...
    They think the UK leaving the EU is an act of self-harm.
    Why do you think that's an insult?
  • Alistair said:

    Classy stuff from some Celtic fans here:
    https://twitter.com/theweerovers/status/823207867155152896

    If that isn't a photoshop then I am the Queen of Sheeba.

    It is for sure. I meant to write Classy stuff from Scotland about some Celtic fans here ... , but doing it on my phone meant fat fingers got in the way. I can't edit it now because the time limits done.

    Always worth checking the number of RFC, WATP, 'Sturgeons treachery' types who follow these accounts.

    Note to self: don't go near Scottish football.

    Och, it has its moments.

    https://twitter.com/Coral/status/823219107285925890
  • surbiton said:

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
    Ignoramus person?

    Apart from being a horrendous tautology...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. L, leaving aside Blair's penchant for military adventures, spending in other departments rose far more rapidly. Defence was very much a poor relation.

    I agree Cameron was weak on Defence as well. However, he inherited a terrible economic position, whereas Blair and Brown had a golden economic inheritance.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,151
    surbiton said:

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
    The Harrier 1 was decommissioned in 2006, while the second model was decomissioned in 2011. So you are both right!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,970
    surbiton said:

    Mr. Surbiton, the point of testing is to find any potential problems with a system.

    As for the carriers/aircraft: remind me which wise man signed a contract that made it cheaper to build two aircraft carriers than it was to cancel one of them?

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.
    Lordy, do we have to go over this again? The mistake was Hoon creating Joint Force Harrier in 2000. This put the Harriers (the RAF's GR7/GR9s and the RN's Sea Harriers) under a joint command. Now, the RAF and RN are uneasy bedfellows at best, and what happened next was widely predicted. The RAF nicked the planes, and in 2006 the Sea Harriers were scrapped, partly because they were of little use to the RAF.

    Since the Sea Harriers were the only ones with radars, and our Invincible-class carriers had no airborne radars, it made Harriers virtually useless for combat off them. Therefore the army used the GR7/9's more, and the RN had to allow Spanish planes to land on our operating carriers to keep aircrews current. (*)

    To make matters worse, the Labour government kept on lying that we had three Invincible-class carriers. In the mid-2000's HMS Invincible was put in a low state of readiness. This meant, apparently, it could got ready to go back to see in a few months. In reality, it had been heavily striped o provide spares for its sisters, and had no engines.

    Labour lies.

    Oh, and happy birthday Malc.

    (*) This, it should be noted, is very similar to the fact that the US will initially operate F35's off our new carriers, which some in Labour circles have got het up about.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    surbiton said:

    Mr. Surbiton, the point of testing is to find any potential problems with a system.

    As for the carriers/aircraft: remind me which wise man signed a contract that made it cheaper to build two aircraft carriers than it was to cancel one of them?

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.
    Lordy, do we have to go over this again? The mistake was Hoon creating Joint Force Harrier in 2000. This put the Harriers (the RAF's GR7/GR9s and the RN's Sea Harriers) under a joint command. Now, the RAF and RN are uneasy bedfellows at best, and what happened next was widely predicted. The RAF nicked the planes, and in 2006 the Sea Harriers were scrapped, partly because they were of little use to the RAF.

    Since the Sea Harriers were the only ones with radars, and our Invincible-class carriers had no airborne radars, it made Harriers virtually useless for combat off them. Therefore the army used the GR7/9's more, and the RN had to allow Spanish planes to land on our operating carriers to keep aircrews current. (*)

    To make matters worse, the Labour government kept on lying that we had three Invincible-class carriers. In the mid-2000's HMS Invincible was put in a low state of readiness. This meant, apparently, it could got ready to go back to see in a few months. In reality, it had been heavily striped o provide spares for its sisters, and had no engines.

    Labour lies.

    Oh, and happy birthday Malc.

    (*) This, it should be noted, is very similar to the fact that the US will initially operate F35's off our new carriers, which some in Labour circles have got het up about.
    Cheers JJ
  • Happy birthday Malc.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Anyway, I must be off.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    surbiton said:

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
    Ignoramus person?

    Apart from being a horrendous tautology...
    Makes 'vapid bilge' look like elegant English
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    ...Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Happy Bday, Malc!

    Cheers Southam, brilliant cartoon
    Reminds me of another excellent cartoon produced before the Scottish referendum:

    https://www.cairnstoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/safer-together.png
  • glwglw Posts: 10,011
    surbiton said:

    glw said:

    surbiton said:

    THe dismantling of the Harriers far too early was one of Cam's early decisions. Of course, he was right ! Britain did not need an aircraft carrier for 6 years. Does it ever ?

    Missile technology has been around for decades. I think the Americans sold us duds.

    LABOUR scrapped the Sea Harriers in 2006.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8576541/Harrier-jump-jets-sold-for-peanuts.html

    Take this you biased ignoramus person.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8158639/Scrapping-of-Harrier-jump-jet-is-short-sighted.html
    I think I need not say anything else, as others have amply explained your error.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    edited January 2017
    BudG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

    True sign on some MoD equipment:

    'For safety reasons, this equipment should be stored with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. To avoid confusion, the top is marked 'bottom' and the bottom is marked 'top'.'

    Edit - and happy birthday @malcolmg. May your natal whisky taste sweet and all turnips be confounded!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Happy birthday Malc.

    cheers Richard
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    ydoethur said:

    BudG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

    True sign on some MoD equipment:

    'For safety reasons, this equipment should be stored with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. To avoid confusion, the top is marked 'bottom' and the bottom is marked 'top'.'

    Edit - and happy birthday @malcolmg. May your natal whisky taste sweet and all turnips be confounded!
    Thanks ydoethur, turnips will be in big demand this week.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    daodao said:

    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    ...Happy Birthday Malcolm

    Happy Bday, Malc!

    Cheers Southam, brilliant cartoon
    Reminds me of another excellent cartoon produced before the Scottish referendum:

    https://www.cairnstoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/safer-together.png
    Excellent
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,151
    ydoethur said:

    BudG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

    True sign on some MoD equipment:

    'For safety reasons, this equipment should be stored with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. To avoid confusion, the top is marked 'bottom' and the bottom is marked 'top'.'

    Edit - and happy birthday @malcolmg. May your natal whisky taste sweet and all turnips be confounded!
    Brilliant!

    And hope you have a good one Malc!
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Mr. Surbiton, Cameron was weak on Defence. But he didn't joyride it nearly as hard as Labour, nor did he starve it out funds whilst splurging on every other department.

    Mr. Glenn, could you explain what you mean?

    Defence spending was cut by the Conservatives under Thatcher and Major, then increased by Labour under Blair and Brown, then cut by the Conservative-led coalition under Cameron.
    Defence spending under Labour no doubt increased to pay for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even then our lads were not initially equipped to do the jobs that they were asked to do.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited January 2017
    Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Just heard about the one about the nuke which flew in the wrong direction. In these strange times where a lunatic has been handed a button which can destroy the world it's good to have something to laugh about.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Happy birthday Malc. You made it!
  • Just watched Diane Abbott's interview with Andrew Neil this morning and you have to ask how on earth anyone as incompetent as she is has managed to be in a shadow cabinet at all let alone shadow home secretary.



  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,970
    ydoethur said:

    BudG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

    True sign on some MoD equipment:

    'For safety reasons, this equipment should be stored with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. To avoid confusion, the top is marked 'bottom' and the bottom is marked 'top'.'

    Edit - and happy birthday @malcolmg. May your natal whisky taste sweet and all turnips be confounded!
    If large passenger jets are to be without their engines for some time, they are apparently replaced with large blocks of concrete hanging off the pylons (I presume so the wings remain stressed correctly).

    On one picture I've seen, the large concrete blocks are painted bright yellow. Stencilled in black on each block is : "Remove before flight."

    I wish I could find the pictures again ...

    (This is where someone tells me it was an early Internet spoof)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom

    That's very funny!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164

    Just watched Diane Abbott's interview with Andrew Neil this morning and you have to ask how on earth anyone as incompetent as she is has managed to be in a shadow cabinet at all let alone shadow home secretary.

    She and Thornberry fronted up by Corbyn himself must be the weakest leading trio since Joseph Chamberlain found himself in acting charge of a shadow cabinet consisting of his son, the Marquess of Lansdowne and Walter Long.

    At least Lansbury had Bevin and Attlee to fall back on - talented and relatively youthful politicians with big careers ahead of them - rather than geriatric has-beens one of whose chief claim to fame is that she had sex with the leader 30 years ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164

    ydoethur said:

    BudG said:

    TOPPING said:

    Tim_B said:

    TOPPING said:

    MTimT said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    KNIFE IN THE HEART OF TSE, PTII
    ====================
    I am not locking money up for over 11 yrs to get 10/1, and 1/25 is too short for the alternative.

    That's not a knife in the heart, because I've said both bets are unappealing so no bets for me.
    Wasn't it Spooner who wrote a note which at the bottom had a postscript saying "ignore this note"?
    My favorite is signs that say "Don't read this sign"
    There was a "Please don't throw stones at this sign".
    - and let's not forget the label on the top of a ketchup bottle - "Do not buy if this label is missing".

    Or the classic sign at railway crossings "Beware of trains going both ways at once."
    Please inform us if you do not receive this mail.
    When I was about 12 I used to get up early during summer holidays and help my Dad with his milk-round. One morning I picked up an empty bottle on a doorstep containing a note. It read:

    "No milk today. By today, I mean tomorrow, because I wrote this yesterday. :D

    True sign on some MoD equipment:

    'For safety reasons, this equipment should be stored with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. To avoid confusion, the top is marked 'bottom' and the bottom is marked 'top'.'

    Edit - and happy birthday @malcolmg. May your natal whisky taste sweet and all turnips be confounded!
    If large passenger jets are to be without their engines for some time, they are apparently replaced with large blocks of concrete hanging off the pylons (I presume so the wings remain stressed correctly).

    On one picture I've seen, the large concrete blocks are painted bright yellow. Stencilled in black on each block is : "Remove before flight."

    I wish I could find the pictures again ...

    (This is where someone tells me it was an early Internet spoof)
    Even if it's a spoof, it's still funny!
  • The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,913

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
  • rcs1000 said:

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
    But you catch even more flies with manure.

    Just saying.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,146

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    That may provide exactly the impetus the EU was lacking to become a single nation state.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,413
    Roger said:

    Kellyanne Conway must be having a laugh 'alternative facts'....really?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BPk33c4A6kv/?taken-by=theshaderoom

    That's very funny!
    But even the reporter... Why does he say falsehood?
    Can't we just call it a lie... Isnt that the kind of straight talking people want?
  • The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That will run directly contrary to our interests - we need open markets, not protectionist ways. The policies of Trump's White House really are the most antithetical to the UK's interests we have seen for many a long year.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,698

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    Of course the US will prefer to do trade deals with single countries. It gives it more opportunity to dictate terms. A trade war with Germany will effectively be a trade war with the EU. That will run directly contrary to our interests - we need open markets, not protectionist ways. The policies of Trump's White House really are the most antithetical to the UK's interests we have seen for many a long year.

    There will inevitably be some protectionism from the EU to the UK post Brexit and visa versa, a potential trade deal with the U.S. at least strengthens May's hand in the Brexit talks
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    Presumably as Ambassador to a large block, he has the ultimate sinecure then! everyday off!

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,770

    rcs1000 said:

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    I always find you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
    But you catch even more flies with manure.

    Just saying.
    Well technically, there's this blue-light thing that goes "zzzip"...
  • AnneJGP said:

    The proposed US ambassador to the EU said on Andrew Neil this morning that Trump blames Germany for sucking all the wealth away from the southern nation states and that he is against large blocks and will only deal with Nation States. Apparently he has not spoken to Merkel yet and if he confirms his views, as is likely, it will sew the seed of dissent against Merkel and Germany.

    Things are not going to get any easier for the EU

    That may provide exactly the impetus the EU was lacking to become a single nation state.
    I have no doubt that many in the EU will see this as an opportunity to grow closer but equally there will be many who do not. I believe that as the EU has grown to 27 countries agreements become horribly difficult and usually agreements are at the the lowest common denominator.

    I do not want to see the EU fail, indeed it would be a disaster, but it needs to embrace change in a positive way and rid itself of its malign thinking.

    And it needs to start by accepting Brexit and make positive noises for a mutually beneficial trade deal recognising that the UK will be out altogther but will be it's best friend and a conduit to the US
This discussion has been closed.