politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The verdict on the Corbyn relaunch: Jeremy must try harder

First!

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

Morning all.

“all we can ask is that Jeremy Corbyn is the best leader he can be.”

Oh dear, that’s Labour buggered then for 2020…

MTimT said:

Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?

Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.

Do we know the mechanics of Mrs May's speech today? Is it first thing, before the markets open, or to Parliament in the afternoon?

I have seen chicken labelled as coming from Thailand and China. That sounds far worse to me.

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

Well I'd definitely say that chicken is one of the foods that is poorer quality here in the US to what I remember from the UK. Beef is definitely better here, lamb is poorer (if you can find it), and vegetables in general are poorer quality here. (And don't get me started about the stuff that passes for bread.)

I can't tell you about the supermarket fish here as my wife refuses to have it in the house. She's from a fishing town in Rhode Island and will only eat fish that's straight off the boat from the fish market at the quayside and as we're twenty-five miles iand that limits us a bit!

One thing that seems paradoxical to me is that food quality here in the US appears to be worse in the big cities. Produce from the supermarkets in southern Rhode Island where my wife is from isn't too bad and for the most part here in suburban Westchester County, New York, it's generally acceptable, but when we first moved over we lived on the Upper East Side in Manhattan (so not a poor neighbourhood by any means) for a few months and the supermarkets there and the quality of their produce was execrable. Yes, there are higher end places like Whole Foods or Trader Joes but they aren't that much better and much more expensive a lot of the time.

Didn't Mr. Brind bother to read this thread before posting it up on PB.com .... thereby correcting any number of irritating errors?

rpjs said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

Well I'd definitely say that chicken is one of the foods that is poorer quality here in the US to what I remember from the UK. Beef is definitely better here, lamb is poorer (if you can find it), and vegetables in general are poorer quality here. (And don't get me started about the stuff that passes for bread.)

I can't tell you about the supermarket fish here as my wife refuses to have it in the house. She's from a fishing town in Rhode Island and will only eat fish that's straight off the boat from the fish market at the quayside and as we're twenty-five miles iand that limits us a bit!

One thing that seems paradoxical to me is that food quality here in the US appears to be worse in the big cities. Produce from the supermarkets in southern Rhode Island where my wife is from isn't too bad and for the most part here in suburban Westchester County, New York, it's generally acceptable, but when we first moved over we lived on the Upper East Side in Manhattan (so not a poor neighbourhood by any means) for a few months and the supermarkets there and the quality of their produce was execrable. Yes, there are higher end places like Whole Foods or Trader Joes but they aren't that much better and much more expensive a lot of the time.

Interesting stuff, rpjs ...... let's hear more from you.

Sandpit said:

MTimT said:

Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?

Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.

No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.

I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.

"Jeremy must try harder"
How would that help?
It's not lack of trying that makes Corbyn a poor opposition leader. It's being Corbyn.

Casino_Royale said:

I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.

Here in japan, American beef is maybe 20% cheaper than Japanese or Australian. Put them side by side on the supermarket shelf and I think you would see a substantial amount sold

NickPalmer said:

Sandpit said:

MTimT said:

Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?

Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.

No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.

I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.

I agree with your first paragraph, but that wasn't what Corbyn said. He said that there should be an maximum earnings limit, to hit bankers and footballers.

All that would achieve is to drive profitable industries offshore, and necessitate massive tax increases for those on lower incomes in order to continue to pay for public services. Until he can produce a properly costed proposal, Corbyn is living in an unelectable fantasy land.

The polling in favour of a suggested million pound earnings limit was only 39%, without anyone trying to explain the consequences.

NickPalmer said:

Sandpit said:

MTimT said:

Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?

Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.

No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.

I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.

Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.

Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Ally_B said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

You honestly didn't realise that chicken in the US is treated with chlorine to kill the pathogens that its poor faming practices introduce?

http://www.beuc.eu/blog/what-is-wrong-with-chlorinated-chicken/

IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.

Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.

I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.

It will not be labelled.

The label for beef, veal, fish and shellfish, honey, olive oil, wine, most fruit and vegetables and poultry imported from outside the EU must show the country of origin.

https://www.gov.uk/food-labelling-and-packaging/food-labelling-what-you-must-show

When we leave the EU, presumably we will label food from EU countries as well?

Almost all American beef is corn fed. The good stuff is superb. The rest, not so much. I can't see American politicians signing off any trade deal putting the agricultural lobby there at any disadvantage. There are too many votes to lose.

CarlottaVance said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Ally_B said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

You honestly didn't realise that chicken in the US is treated with chlorine to kill the pathogens that its poor faming practices introduce?

http://www.beuc.eu/blog/what-is-wrong-with-chlorinated-chicken/

IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.

Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.

I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.

It will not be labelled.

The label for beef, veal, fish and shellfish, honey, olive oil, wine, most fruit and vegetables and poultry imported from outside the EU must show the country of origin.

https://www.gov.uk/food-labelling-and-packaging/food-labelling-what-you-must-show

When we leave the EU, presumably we will label food from EU countries as well?

Depends on the trade agreement the Tories sign up to with Trump.

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

Our trade deals with Australia and New Zealand will be interesting on that front.

SouthamObserver said:

CarlottaVance said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Ally_B said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

You honestly didn't realise that chicken in the US is treated with chlorine to kill the pathogens that its poor faming practices introduce?

http://www.beuc.eu/blog/what-is-wrong-with-chlorinated-chicken/

IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.

Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.

I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.

It will not be labelled.

The label for beef, veal, fish and shellfish, honey, olive oil, wine, most fruit and vegetables and poultry imported from outside the EU must show the country of origin.

https://www.gov.uk/food-labelling-and-packaging/food-labelling-what-you-must-show

When we leave the EU, presumably we will label food from EU countries as well?

Depends on the trade agreement the Tories sign up to with Trump.

I doubt the Americans would want to block the branding of USDA Beef - they spend a fortune marketing it!

Sandpit said:

I agree with your first paragraph, but that wasn't what Corbyn said. He said that there should be an maximum earnings limit, to hit bankers and footballers.

All that would achieve is to drive profitable industries offshore, and necessitate massive tax increases for those on lower incomes in order to continue to pay for public services. Until he can produce a properly costed proposal, Corbyn is living in an unelectable fantasy land.

The polling in favour of a suggested million pound earnings limit was only 39%, without anyone trying to explain the consequences.

That was the first response to a question in an interview, but the version that it would be about what companies governments contracted with was the more detailed proposal made later that day. Two points therre - as Don says, it's important to be prepared for queries on anything with a well-defined proposal (difficult, but desirable), and the press aren't interested in detail, so if you're casual about how you describe your policies, the media will take the simplified version (from your comment you didn't register the detail, and you're obviously more aware of politics than the average punter).

Anyway, what's the problem with chlorine doused chicken?

We know Donald eats it - Kentucky Fried!

Just like ordinary folks, except possibly not with gold plated cutlery on their private jet....

FF43 said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.

Almost all farms are currently dependent on migrant labour. If they are competing globally on price I doubt we'll see a wages explosion for the UK citizens doing the work once the migrants are gone.

CarlottaVance said:

SouthamObserver said:

CarlottaVance said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Ally_B said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

You honestly didn't realise that chicken in the US is treated with chlorine to kill the pathogens that its poor faming practices introduce?

http://www.beuc.eu/blog/what-is-wrong-with-chlorinated-chicken/

IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.

Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.

I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.

It will not be labelled.

The label for beef, veal, fish and shellfish, honey, olive oil, wine, most fruit and vegetables and poultry imported from outside the EU must show the country of origin.

https://www.gov.uk/food-labelling-and-packaging/food-labelling-what-you-must-show

When we leave the EU, presumably we will label food from EU countries as well?

Depends on the trade agreement the Tories sign up to with Trump.

I doubt the Americans would want to block the branding of USDA Beef - they spend a fortune marketing it!

Yep - that will undoubtedly be labelled. Most US beef is not USDA, though.

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably.
For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.

But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

SouthamObserver said:

FF43 said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.

Almost all farms are currently dependent on migrant labour. If they are competing globally on price I doubt we'll see a wages explosion for the UK citizens doing the work once the migrants are gone.

See Mr Jessoip’s post upthread. The 'big East Anglian agri-businesses' are the ones that rely on migrant labour. Especially if they are producing vegetables, as opposed to cereals.

rpjs said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

Well I'd definitely say that chicken is one of the foods that is poorer quality here in the US to what I remember from the UK. Beef is definitely better here, lamb is poorer (if you can find it), and vegetables in general are poorer quality here. (And don't get me started about the stuff that passes for bread.)

I can't tell you about the supermarket fish here as my wife refuses to have it in the house. She's from a fishing town in Rhode Island and will only eat fish that's straight off the boat from the fish market at the quayside and as we're twenty-five miles iand that limits us a bit!

One thing that seems paradoxical to me is that food quality here in the US appears to be worse in the big cities. Produce from the supermarkets in southern Rhode Island where my wife is from isn't too bad and for the most part here in suburban Westchester County, New York, it's generally acceptable, but when we first moved over we lived on the Upper East Side in Manhattan (so not a poor neighbourhood by any means) for a few months and the supermarkets there and the quality of their produce was execrable. Yes, there are higher end places like Whole Foods or Trader Joes but they aren't that much better and much more expensive a lot of the time.

Trader Joe's has this really weird reputation. It's actually meant to be a trendy mid/low cost store (owned by one of the Albrecht brothers who own Aldi)

Do you have Ralph's or Pavillions/Vons? They are both decent but may be West Coast stores.

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

NickPalmer said:

Sandpit said:

MTimT said:

Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?

Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.

No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.

I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.

I'm a member of RemCom for a Pic. The whole "scratching each other's back" line is balderdash.

Faults are probably an over-reliance on benchmarks/consultants and a generally acceptance of astronomical rewards being normal, but there's no motive in it as you imply

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

SouthamObserver said:

OldKingCole said:

SouthamObserver said:

FF43 said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.

Almost all farms are currently dependent on migrant labour. If they are competing globally on price I doubt we'll see a wages explosion for the UK citizens doing the work once the migrants are gone.

See Mr Jessoip’s post upthread. The 'big East Anglian agri-businesses' are the ones that rely on migrant labour. Especially if they are producing vegetables, as opposed to cereals.

Hard to see how they are going to compete then.

There’ll be a whole load of announcements around immigration about how the short-term visa system will work. Expect a bonus for licensed gangmastters.

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

surbiton said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

I shop at both and voted Remain. Keep posting Alastair.

If people didn’t post twaddle threads on this site would be a) less interesting and b) much shorter.

Interesting article.

Personally, I remain adrift with no-one after my vote.

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

Sainsbury is MoE with the national vote

Waitrose is skewed but that simply reflects its store locations

The chart really shows reminaers like yourself should shop at the coop

FF43 said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.

I think this is nonsense.

We will grow less maize and corn, but produce more high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables.

We have a very benign climate here, superb for growing produce, entrepreneurial farmers and high animal welfare standards. Possibly even higher outside the EU. Britain has a great brand.

We don't need CAP subsidies to succeed, or a closed European market. There is just a tendency to fear here due to loss aversion and the unknown of change.

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

JosiasJessop said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably.
For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.

But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.

I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.

If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.

CD13 said:

Becoming used to immigrant labour and being totally dependent on them to bring the crops in isn't the same thing.

From the age of thirteen, I spent the Easter and summer holidays, and the bright summer nights, working with a gang. It was labour intensive - potatoes were picked by hand in the sixties, and that was one of the major crops in Lincolnshire. But there was never a shortage of labour. Automation has since reduced the need for so much labour.

However, immigrant labour is cheap and uncomplaining, and of course, the farmer will prefer it. The alternative is to offer better conditions to the locals.

This isn't rocket science, you know.

The farmer and possibly the consumer may prefer the immigrants, but those pesky locals have other ideas. Yet Labour, the party of the workers, sides with the former.

The Remainers may well believe the locals are stupid to vote Leave. They may be right. They probably have experience of potato prices in Waitrose, so they know these things.

The alternative when you are competing on price, as farmers largely are, is to go out of business. It's us - Leavers and Remainers - who demand those low prices. Take some responsibility. It's not always someone else's fault.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!

Meeks is projecting, as usual.

Meeks is citing polling evidence, as usual. Do keep up at the back.

AlastairMeeks said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!

Meeks is projecting, as usual.

Meeks is citing polling evidence, as usual. Do keep up at the back.

Polls you say?

JosiasJessop said:

Casino_Royale said:

JosiasJessop said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably.
For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.

But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.

I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.

If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.

Why?

It's the large mass producing bulk produce farms that have most to lose from CAP and free movement restrictions.

Corbyn can't even be consistent on E. Europe and Nato. Yesterday he claimed he didn't know about the 'British troop deployment is provocative' line, until after his spokesman delivered it on his behalf.

It is all I am their leader, I must follow from the bearded wonder.

SouthamObserver said:

Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements.

Well put. I've taken some of it for my current newsletter, thanks!

http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/

When might those writs be moved, Sky speculate later this week?

http://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-dismisses-claims-he-is-a-vote-loser-ahead-of-by-elections-10731903

Blue_rog said:

Well, well, well. It seems that Teresa has been clear all along. Brexit means Brexit. We will be leaving the customs union and the EU structures of the single market. We will still have acces to the single market, like the rest of the world but the freedom to negotiate trade deals elsewhere. Couldn't really ask for more. Regarding timing, I truly believe that there were no plans or background when May became leader and the intervening period has been spent reviewing the various options. This speech is the result and the best (in the governments opinion) that delivers what the people voted for. It is the negotiating position so it'll be interesting to see what happens after art 50 is triggered.

If the art 50 bill fails to pass through parliament then there's no option but a GE

Yep - it was always pretty clear Tory Brexit meant lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and further cuts in public spending. Looks like higher prices are also in the offing. As most of PB seems to shop at Waitrose, M&S and Sainsbury's (guilty), it looks like we'll be largely OK, though.

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!

Meeks is projecting, as usual.

Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.

So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave

I'll remember the phrase "not exactly a slam dunk" for the next time one of the more crazed Leavers quacks on about the settled will of the nation based on a 52:48 split.

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!

Meeks is projecting, as usual.

Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.

So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave

And given YouGov's skew to remain in the final polls I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to evens than that.

Quite the logic fail there.

Casino_Royale said:

JosiasJessop said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.

Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.

I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.

For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably.
For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.

But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.

I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.

If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.

Citation?

MaxPB said:

AlastairMeeks said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

MaxPB said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Pong said:

MTimT said:

No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:

"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."

Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.

It's even better than that;

"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"

lol

SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH

Nick Clegg's having fun.

I'm starting to like him again.

Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.

I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/iceland-britains-brexit-iest-supermarket/

and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country

That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.

I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.

I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.

And M&S.

Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!

Meeks is projecting, as usual.

Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.

So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave

And given YouGov's skew to remain in the final polls I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to evens than that.

Quite the logic fail there.

No, YouGov had a consistent skew to remain of around 4 points compared to the result. I don't see why this would be any different, their weighting is just bad.

So where do you think Remainers shop? Or do you think that they don't eat?