No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably. For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.
But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.
I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.
If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.
Why?
It's the large mass producing bulk produce farms that have most to lose from CAP and free movement restrictions.
Nope, it's the small farmers who will suffer most. Not only will they lose CAP, but there will be increased competition. Many such farms are marginal as it is.
The supermarkets will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Well, well, well. It seems that Teresa has been clear all along. Brexit means Brexit. We will be leaving the customs union and the EU structures of the single market. We will still have acces to the single market, like the rest of the world but the freedom to negotiate trade deals elsewhere. Couldn't really ask for more. Regarding timing, I truly believe that there were no plans or background when May became leader and the intervening period has been spent reviewing the various options. This speech is the result and the best (in the governments opinion) that delivers what the people voted for. It is the negotiating position so it'll be interesting to see what happens after art 50 is triggered.
If the art 50 bill fails to pass through parliament then there's no option but a GE
Yep - it was always pretty clear Tory Brexit meant lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and further cuts in public spending. Looks like higher prices are also in the offing. As most of PB seems to shop at Waitrose, M&S and Sainsbury's (guilty), it looks like we'll be largely OK, though.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country
That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.
I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.
I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.
And M&S.
Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!
Meeks is projecting, as usual.
Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.
So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave
And given YouGov's skew to remain in the final polls I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to evens than that.
Quite the logic fail there.
No, YouGov had a consistent skew to remain of around 4 points compared to the result. I don't see why this would be any different, their weighting is just bad.
So where do you think Remainers shop? Or do you think that they don't eat?
The thought of remainers starving to death. Bliss!
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably. For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.
But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.
I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.
If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.
Why?
It's the large mass producing bulk produce farms that have most to lose from CAP and free movement restrictions.
Agree with that. CAP is a big bureaucratic mess and the majority of farmers voted to leave. As you say, the massive subsidy-junky agribusinesses who only ever recruit from Lithuania will be the losers, and the smaller niche farmers the winners. I imagine that British produce will gain a worldwide reputation for quality, those who can successfully market into middle-class China will not have a problem with demand.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country
That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.
I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.
I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.
And M&S.
Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!
Meeks is projecting, as usual.
Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.
So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave
And given YouGov's skew to remain in the final polls I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to evens than that.
Quite the logic fail there.
No, YouGov had a consistent skew to remain of around 4 points compared to the result. I don't see why this would be any different, their weighting is just bad.
So where do you think Remainers shop? Or do you think that they don't eat?
Given that the country, or at least those of it who could, and did vote, was just about evenly split, I woud have thought that applied to shopping.
"Take some responsibility. It's not always someone else's fault."
Yes, you're right. I'm evil and should be punished.
It's entirely natural to blame others for things you don't like, but the fact is British farms have to compete on price because that is what British consumers demand. That's you, me and most others who post on here. If we want British farms to pay British people higher wages and not rely on migrant labour we have to be prepared to spend a lot more on the stuff they produce. There's just no getting round that, I'm afraid.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably. For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.
But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.
I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.
If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.
Quote - "What matters more to them in the short term is being able to stay in business, and they won’t be able to do that without subsidies. This is where Westminster will have to step in, if it is serious about food security".
On supermarkets, I'd like to know what proportion of people make the effort to travel beyond their nearest shop. We use Sainsbury's as there is a big one very near to us. If it were just me, I'd probably use the nearest one, or perhaps make the effort to use Morisons as I quite like them. But I reckon my mum would make the effort to travel to Sainsbury's (certainly over Tescos).
Wiki says that Zac Goldsmith is the Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and Stephen Philips of the Manor of Northstead, so I don't see a vacancy yet on which the writ can be moved.
I'd they want the by-election on May 4th they're going to have to hold off the moving of the writ for another ten weeks or so, end of March at the earliest.
Well, well, well. It seems that Teresa has been clear all along. Brexit means Brexit. We will be leaving the customs union and the EU structures of the single market. We will still have acces to the single market, like the rest of the world but the freedom to negotiate trade deals elsewhere. Couldn't really ask for more. Regarding timing, I truly believe that there were no plans or background when May became leader and the intervening period has been spent reviewing the various options. This speech is the result and the best (in the governments opinion) that delivers what the people voted for. It is the negotiating position so it'll be interesting to see what happens after art 50 is triggered.
If the art 50 bill fails to pass through parliament then there's no option but a GE
Yep - it was always pretty clear Tory Brexit meant lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and further cuts in public spending. Looks like higher prices are also in the offing. As most of PB seems to shop at Waitrose, M&S and Sainsbury's (guilty), it looks like we'll be largely OK, though.
Well that's your personal skewed biased view
What's your own personal skewed biased view? Mine is that I agree with SO that Brexit (and not just Tory Brexit) means lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and cuts in public spending. However, I think prices of food, at least, will be cheaper, at the cost of a substantial chunk of British farming.
Well, I haven't met a local farmer who voted remain although the talk in the pubs is of four. Two are "knit your own muesli" and also vote for Tim Farron. i.e. not real farmers.
No doubt ours is a different world to arable farming.
So far we have been paid our 2016 BPS (Basic Payment Scheme) within a week of the new year - compare the disaster of 2015 where we couldn't get a straight answer out of the RPA (Rural Payments Agency). There seems to be a 17 to 18% uplift on the BPS compared with 2015 - the exchange rate from Euro to Pound is calculated in mid September.
Certainly my livestock is making 20% more than last year.
Yes, we expect something hopefully more like SPS (Single Payment Scheme - Margaret Beckett's great achievement) than BPS to continue after 2020 here in the SDA (Severely Disadvantaged Area - The Land which got the Hill Cow Sub and Hill Sheep Sub in pre EEC days). Deluded - I don't think so although the purchase price for Entitlements is more depressed than in previous years. That probably reflects fury with the BPS and the ridiculous waste of money involved with the implelentation in England (£257M and counting).
Farron says we didn't know what we were voting for when we voted for Brexit. I have yet to meet anyone who voted leave who did not know Leave meant Leave. He might be that stupid - Leave voters were not.
Brexit was one of those two horse races he is always on about. It is about time he accepted that his horse lost.
"British farms have to compete on price because that is what British consumers demand."
Thanks, I have learned to suck eggs finally. My point is that if you were a Lincolnshire worker, it makes sense to vote Leave, it doesn't have to be a mindless, racist opinion.
It may be, but the Remain default is that stupidity drives the Leave decision.
Labour is now in favour of identity politics above all else. Immigrants are disadvantaged, therefore they must be encouraged to come. It's a legitimate view, but it's not the only one.
Well, well, well. It seems that Teresa has been clear all along. Brexit means Brexit. We will be leaving the customs union and the EU structures of the single market. We will still have acces to the single market, like the rest of the world but the freedom to negotiate trade deals elsewhere. Couldn't really ask for more. Regarding timing, I truly believe that there were no plans or background when May became leader and the intervening period has been spent reviewing the various options. This speech is the result and the best (in the governments opinion) that delivers what the people voted for. It is the negotiating position so it'll be interesting to see what happens after art 50 is triggered.
If the art 50 bill fails to pass through parliament then there's no option but a GE
Yep - it was always pretty clear Tory Brexit meant lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and further cuts in public spending. Looks like higher prices are also in the offing. As most of PB seems to shop at Waitrose, M&S and Sainsbury's (guilty), it looks like we'll be largely OK, though.
Well that's your personal skewed biased view
What's your own personal skewed biased view? Mine is that I agree with SO that Brexit (and not just Tory Brexit) means lower corporation tax, reduced job security, shorter retirements and cuts in public spending. However, I think prices of food, at least, will be cheaper, at the cost of a substantial chunk of British farming.
There were already cuts in public spending and shorter retirements and reduced job security before Brexit, the only one which Brexit May have really impacted on is lower corporation tax
and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country
That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.
I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.
I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.
And M&S.
Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!
Meeks is projecting, as usual.
Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.
So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave
And given YouGov's skew to remain in the final polls I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to evens than that.
Quite the logic fail there.
No, YouGov had a consistent skew to remain of around 4 points compared to the result. I don't see why this would be any different, their weighting is just bad.
So where do you think Remainers shop??
At the Coop.
In Lambeth.
That's what the YouGov showed.
Joking apart it would be interesting to see how Waitrose & Sainsbury shoppers voted when you control for income and location....I suspect's its pretty much of a wash with the rest of the county......interestingly M&S shoppers were almost evenly split - despite being the most expensive of the lot - tho that may reflect an up-age skew....
Well, I haven't met a local farmer who voted remain although the talk in the pubs is of four. Two are "knit your own muesli" and also vote for Tim Farron. i.e. not real farmers.
No doubt ours is a different world to arable farming.
So far we have been paid our 2016 BPS (Basic Payment Scheme) within a week of the new year - compare the disaster of 2015 where we couldn't get a straight answer out of the RPA (Rural Payments Agency). There seems to be a 17 to 18% uplift on the BPS compared with 2015 - the exchange rate from Euro to Pound is calculated in mid September.
Certainly my livestock is making 20% more than last year.
Yes, we expect something hopefully more like SPS (Single Payment Scheme - Margaret Beckett's great achievement) than BPS to continue after 2020 here in the SDA (Severely Disadvantaged Area - The Land which got the Hill Cow Sub and Hill Sheep Sub in pre EEC days). Deluded - I don't think so although the purchase price for Entitlements is more depressed than in previous years. That probably reflects fury with the BPS and the ridiculous waste of money involved with the implelentation in England (£257M and counting).
Farron says we didn't know what we were voting for when we voted for Brexit. I have yet to meet anyone who voted leave who did not know Leave meant Leave. He might be that stupid - Leave voters were not.
Brexit was one of those two horse races he is always on about. It is about time he accepted that his horse lost.
"Leave meant Leave"
LOL. If it was that simple, every PB thread at the moment would be much quieter and less fraught!
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.
I think this is nonsense.
We will grow less maize and corn, but produce more high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables.
We have a very benign climate here, superb for growing produce, entrepreneurial farmers and high animal welfare standards. Possibly even higher outside the EU. Britain has a great brand.
We don't need CAP subsidies to succeed, or a closed European market. There is just a tendency to fear here due to loss aversion and the unknown of change.
A farm is a business like any other operates in a competitive environment. Those farmers selling high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables will compete against farmers from elsewhere selling the same products with lower costs. The point is, Brexit makes life a lot more difficult for farmers. Some will cope; many won't.
I have mixed feelings.. I am not generally in favour of protectionism. Agriculture is one of the few areas where the EU is protectionist. It will have an effect however.
@GuardianAnushka: Interestingly Ann Linde - Swedish foreign minister- said after meeting David Davis was clear that now "inevitable" UK out of single market
@GuardianAnushka: But also warning on customs union- saying Swedish inquiry found 2000 businesses cited Norway as most difficult county to trade with
There is a reason Norway doesn't have a big car industry...
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably. For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.
But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.
I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.
If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.
Quote - "What matters more to them in the short term is being able to stay in business, and they won’t be able to do that without subsidies. This is where Westminster will have to step in, if it is serious about food security".
The problem with agriculture is that a good year for one farmer is nearly always a good year for his neighbour too, so over production just reduces prices and produces little extra income. Agriculture is effectively high geared on thin margins and high lead times. Getting rid of subsidies or import controls will put most smaller farmers out of business.
Additionally most British lamb is exported to Europe, which may soon stop. There was a reason the NFU supported Remain, and farmers are rarely the metropolitan liberal elite. We could have our own systems of support, but these would probably not be permissable under a free trade agreement. We hear less of the million farm jobs lost in Mexico because of US imports than we do of automotive workers because poor Mexican farmers do not have the same lobbying power.
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
The best thing that could happen to Labour would be choosing a Corbyn clone in Copeland and then for him/her to be soundly defeated. Corbyn's leech like qualities would then be tested beyond breaking point and with a new leader the Labour party could begin to challenge this gruesome Trump/Tory partnership that's beginning to develop
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.
I think this is nonsense.
We will grow less maize and corn, but produce more high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables.
We have a very benign climate here, superb for growing produce, entrepreneurial farmers and high animal welfare standards. Possibly even higher outside the EU. Britain has a great brand.
We don't need CAP subsidies to succeed, or a closed European market. There is just a tendency to fear here due to loss aversion and the unknown of change.
A farm is a business like any other operates in a competitive environment. Those farmers selling high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables will compete against farmers from elsewhere selling the same products with lower costs. The point is, Brexit makes life a lot more difficult for farmers. Some will cope; many won't.
I have mixed feelings.. I am not generally in favour of protectionism. Agriculture is one of the few areas where the EU is protectionist. It will have an effect however.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country
That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.
I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.
I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.
And M&S.
Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!
Meeks is projecting, as usual.
Meeks is citing polling evidence, as usual. Do keep up at the back.
Oh dear! Mr. Meeks still believes in the polls.
The polls were, of course, basically right in the US election. They showed a final lead for Mrs Clinton of just under 3%, and she was 2.1% ahead.
Mr Trump just had a very, very efficient spread of votes.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
Yep - the Tories are pitching to the 52%. The rest of us are surplus to requirements. Though I guess our taxes are still acceptable :-)
Even now about a quarter of Tories want soft Brexit and a quarter of Labour and LD voters hard Brexit, so apart from UKIP voters a reasonable proportion of voters for the other three main parties are voting on issues beyond the EU
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
For the large East Anglian agi-business, probably. For the small Derbyshire hill farmer, no.
But UK farmers will always be small-scale compared to other countries; we just don't have enough land.
I disagree. The farming sector will change shape, as will the overall business models of many farms, but the sector overall will prosper.
If anything it's the other way round to what you suggest.
Quote - "What matters more to them in the short term is being able to stay in business, and they won’t be able to do that without subsidies. This is where Westminster will have to step in, if it is serious about food security".
Additionally most British lamb is exported to Europe, which may soon stop. There was a reason the NFU supported Remain, and farmers are rarely the metropolitan liberal elite. We could have our own systems of support, but these would probably not be permissable under a free trade agreement. We hear less of the million farm jobs lost in Mexico because of US imports than we do of automotive workers because poor Mexican farmers do not have the same lobbying power.
Have you forgotten the French farmers burning British lamb, or the non tariff trade barriers put up in Europe around the BSE scare?
There's no reason why we cannot continue to sell into Europe after we leave the EU
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
And I enjoy drinking my chlorine laced tap water. Unless you pay more for free range chickens I funny think you will object to those produced to American standards. They will sell a pile of them here.
Brexit's sacrificial lambs, to mix a metaphor, will be our Leave voting farmers, who will see their protected interests traded away in the diplomatic game, just as those of fishermen were traded away before them and will continue to be so.
I'm very confident Britain's farmers can hold their own, and prosper, in a global market.
It depends what you mean by prosper. I don't doubt there will be farms that will do well. They will be up against farmers who operate in environments that are competitively advantaged. Cheaper land, cheaper labour and/or a longer growing season. Marginal and middle ranking farms will be bankrupted however.
I think this is nonsense.
We will grow less maize and corn, but produce more high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables.
We have a very benign climate here, superb for growing produce, entrepreneurial farmers and high animal welfare standards. Possibly even higher outside the EU. Britain has a great brand.
We don't need CAP subsidies to succeed, or a closed European market. There is just a tendency to fear here due to loss aversion and the unknown of change.
A farm is a business like any other operates in a competitive environment. Those farmers selling high-quality meats, pies, cheeses, wines, hops and organic vegetables will compete against farmers from elsewhere selling the same products with lower costs. The point is, Brexit makes life a lot more difficult for farmers. Some will cope; many won't.
I have mixed feelings.. I am not generally in favour of protectionism. Agriculture is one of the few areas where the EU is protectionist. It will have an effect however.
IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.
Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.
I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.
It will not be labelled.
Plus used in all ready meals etc , anywhere they can use cheap stuff without having to show provenance.
IMHO the US should focus more on improving its farming practices instead of exporting their polluted products to the world.
Not too worried about there. Our animal welfare awareness is relatively high amongst consumers in the UK, and "Buy British" is very well ingrained as a habit.
I don't think American farmers will sell very many of their chickens here.
It will not be labelled.
Plus used in all ready meals etc , anywhere they can use cheap stuff without having to show provenance.
Eek what will be put in Scotch Pies now? Mind you what already goes into Scotch pies
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
Good morning all. I couldn't live in a town without a Waitrose, so ditto. This is one area where sweeping statements really are useless. We're quite selective about the food we buy - food miles is a thing for me, and we therefore try and buy as much of our groceries from local suppliers as we possibly can. Others may not care as much.
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
Becoming used to immigrant labour and being totally dependent on them to bring the crops in isn't the same thing.
From the age of thirteen, I spent the Easter and summer holidays, and the bright summer nights, working with a gang. It was labour intensive - potatoes were picked by hand in the sixties, and that was one of the major crops in Lincolnshire. But there was never a shortage of labour. Automation has since reduced the need for so much labour.
However, immigrant labour is cheap and uncomplaining, and of course, the farmer will prefer it. The alternative is to offer better conditions to the locals.
This isn't rocket science, you know.
The farmer and possibly the consumer may prefer the immigrants, but those pesky locals have other ideas. Yet Labour, the party of the workers, sides with the former.
The Remainers may well believe the locals are stupid to vote Leave. They may be right. They probably have experience of potato prices in Waitrose, so they know these things.
The East of England already has the lowest unemployment rate of all the UK regions (3.6%), which means that any locals who are going to take the place of departing migrants are probably already working in a job that pays better than working in the fields. Even if farm wages rise, they'll still likely be taking a pay cut to do a less satisfying job. Why would anyone vote to do such a thing?
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
Becoming used to immigrant labour and being totally dependent on them to bring the crops in isn't the same thing.
From the age of thirteen, I spent the Easter and summer holidays, and the bright summer nights, working with a gang. It was labour intensive - potatoes were picked by hand in the sixties, and that was one of the major crops in Lincolnshire. But there was never a shortage of labour. Automation has since reduced the need for so much labour.
However, immigrant labour is cheap and uncomplaining, and of course, the farmer will prefer it. The alternative is to offer better conditions to the locals.
This isn't rocket science, you know.
The farmer and possibly the consumer may prefer the immigrants, but those pesky locals have other ideas. Yet Labour, the party of the workers, sides with the former.
The Remainers may well believe the locals are stupid to vote Leave. They may be right. They probably have experience of potato prices in Waitrose, so they know these things.
The East of England already has the lowest unemployment rate of all the UK regions (3.6%), which means that any locals who are going to take the place of departing migrants are probably already working in a job that pays better than working in the fields. Even if farm wages rise, they'll still likely be taking a pay cut to do a less satisfying job. Why would anyone vote to do such a thing?
Tezza is probably a hair's breadth away from reopening our coal mines.
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
The poorest, the working class and the lower middle class voted Leave for border control, not a tax cut
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
The poorest, the working class and the lower middle class voted Leave for border control, not a tax cut
I'm glad you've gone round to ask them all.
Thing is, as Hammo threatened the other day, they may well get a tax cut.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Trump will be POTUS by Friday evening, CNN already in his bad books
I'd be quite peed off even if I'd voted HRC - sections of the media are doing their best to rubbish their own President before he's confirmed. The planned disruptions of the Inauguration are beyond juvenile - but gleefully threatening.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I wonder if it is the long rumoured video of Trump using the n word.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
and as your charts show the supermarket is as spilt as the rest of the country
That's exactly what the charts don't show. Both Sainsbury's and Waitrose are skewed to Remain.
I appreciate that you wanted to huff and puff and I'm sorry to have to bring you up short with data. I do try to take care when trolling to make sure that I am on a secure footing before doing so.
I only shop at Sainsbury's and Waitrose.
And M&S.
Indeed. I even found Waitrose products in sale in Zurich at Manor Food!
Meeks is projecting, as usual.
Looking at the stats, it's 54/46 remain to S'burys and 57/43 to Waitrose.
So, a majority, but not exactly a slam dunk. A very large number of shoppers at both voted Leave
I'll remember the phrase "not exactly a slam dunk" for the next time one of the more crazed Leavers quacks on about the settled will of the nation based on a 52:48 split.
Maybe you should look up the difference between an opinion poll and an actual real vote first.
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
The poorest, the working class and the lower middle class voted Leave for border control, not a tax cut
I'm glad you've gone round to ask them all.
Thing is, as Hammo threatened the other day, they may well get a tax cut.
It was immigration which swung the working class and lower middle-class Leave voters behind Leave, only the upper middle-class Leavers were not so concerned about immigration. If border control requires a corporation tax cut, so be it
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in socontracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
The poorest, the working class and the lower middle class voted Leave for border control, not a tax cut
I'm glad you've gone round to ask them all.
Thing is, as Hammo threatened the other day, they may well get a tax cut.
It was immigration which swung the working class and lower middle-class Leave voters behind Leave, only the upper middle-class Leavers were not so concerned about immigration. If border control requires a corporation tax cut, so be it
Yippee!
Edit: still v impressed with your insight into the minds of the working class and lower middle-class. So much for the sovereignty arguments of the bien-pensant Leavers on here, eh?
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
Good morning all. I couldn't live in a town without a Waitrose, so ditto. This is one area where sweeping statements really are useless. We're quite selective about the food we buy - food miles is a thing for me, and we therefore try and buy as much of our groceries from local suppliers as we possibly can. Others may not care as much.
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
Thanks Mr M. We've a lovely little black boy arriving in 5 weeks time. Seeing the litter at the weekend was magic - the Cocker mum was very inquisitive but seemed to approve of us taking her most placid offspring.
On the supermarket issue: I used to live very near Holborn. We had a small Sainsbury's and 'Little Waitrose' - the latter was far more enjoyable, and on some items cheaper! My post work runs tended to end there...!
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Trump will be POTUS by Friday evening, CNN already in his bad books
I'd be quite peed off even if I'd voted HRC - sections of the media are doing their best to rubbish their own President before he's confirmed. The planned disruptions of the Inauguration are beyond juvenile - but gleefully threatening.
Are the protestors planning to grab their muskets ?
The thing you linked didn't say anything about immigration either way; Is there something in the original report or is the immigration connection just your intuition?
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
Good morning all. I couldn't live in a town without a Waitrose, so ditto. This is one area where sweeping statements really are useless. We're quite selective about the food we buy - food miles is a thing for me, and we therefore try and buy as much of our groceries from local suppliers as we possibly can. Others may not care as much.
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
Thanks Mr M. We've a lovely little black boy arriving in 5 weeks time. Seeing the litter at the weekend was magic - the Cocker mum was very inquisitive but seemed to approve of us taking her most placid offspring.
On the supermarket issue: I used to live very near Holborn. We had a small Sainsbury's and 'Little Waitrose' - the latter was far more enjoyable, and on some items cheaper! My post work runs tended to end there...!
I have two Yorkipoos, and they are a delight, if occasionally wilful.
The EU CET has high tariffs on a wide range of agricultural imports and backs that up with a quota system on things like beef.
It's a complex trade-off. Some UK consumers might benefit, but I wouldn't want to be a hill farmer - that's a marginal business even now.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I wonder if it is the long rumoured video of Trump using the n word.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
Indeed, I can't believe that anyone in the US would have sat on another Trump scandal video during the campaign.
The conspiracy theorist might say that the Russians have something on him - but they wanted to see him elected first, then brought down with the resulting chaos in the US. As it turned out in practice, if DJT is brought down, Pence and the establishment Republicans will take over and life will carry on.
If there is an 'N Word' video, timing and context will be everything. It wasn't as unacceptable to use that word 20 or 30 years ago, compared to nowadays. If it's from the last decade though, he's in trouble.
I'm still happy with my 1/25 on the inauragration happening as planned on Friday.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
Good morning all. I couldn't live in a town without a Waitrose, so ditto. This is one area where sweeping statements really are useless. We're quite selective about the food we buy - food miles is a thing for me, and we therefore try and buy as much of our groceries from local suppliers as we possibly can. Others may not care as much.
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
Thanks Mr M. We've a lovely little black boy arriving in 5 weeks time. Seeing the litter at the weekend was magic - the Cocker mum was very inquisitive but seemed to approve of us taking her most placid offspring.
On the supermarket issue: I used to live very near Holborn. We had a small Sainsbury's and 'Little Waitrose' - the latter was far more enjoyable, and on some items cheaper! My post work runs tended to end there...!
You can't effing move these days without bumping into a cockerpoo.
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
you seem to resent the benefit of wisdom that comes with age
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I wonder if it is the long rumoured video of Trump using the n word.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
Indeed, I can't believe that anyone in the US would have sat on another Trump scandal video during the campaign.
The conspiracy theorist might say that the Russians have something on him - but they wanted to see him elected first, then brought down with the resulting chaos in the US. As it turned out in practice, if DJT is brought down, Pence and the establishment Republicans will take over and life will carry on.
If there is an 'N Word' video, timing and context will be everything. It wasn't as unacceptable to use that word 20 or 30 years ago, compared to nowadays. If it's from the last decade though, he's in trouble.
I'm still happy with my 1/25 on the inauragration happening as planned on Friday.
Your money is safe. A nice bet.
Whether the 25th amendment will be used at some point in next couple of years is another matter.
The thing you linked didn't say anything about immigration either way; Is there something in the original report or is the immigration connection just your intuition?
I might just be 'traditional' roles changing, with more fathers looking after the kids whilst their wives work full-time, or both doing part-time jobs. That's true for me, a couple of friends, and associates of *all* classes.
It's a symptom of many things. Childcare costs might be much more influential than anything to do with immigration.
Wage income per household over time would be an interesting statistic.
No wonder politicians are so despised and disbelieved:
"Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in British supermarkets if the US gets its way in a post-Brexit trade deal, Nick Clegg has warned."
Each time I go to the supermarket here in the US, I just love picking up my chlorine-soaked chickens.
It's even better than that;
"You tell me, but I suspect the good shoppers of Waitrose and Sainsbury’s and others might be a little bit shocked if, suddenly, they are having to eat this slightly white, chlorine-washed American chicken flesh"
lol
SLIGHTLY WHITE, CHLORINE-WASHED AMERICAN CHICKEN FLESH
Nick Clegg's having fun.
I'm starting to like him again.
Sainsbury's and Waitrose shoppers voted Remain and so their interests are going to be ignored by this government.
I shop at both and voted Leave. Stop posting twaddle
Good morning all. I couldn't live in a town without a Waitrose, so ditto. This is one area where sweeping statements really are useless. We're quite selective about the food we buy - food miles is a thing for me, and we therefore try and buy as much of our groceries from local suppliers as we possibly can. Others may not care as much.
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
On the supermarket issue: I used to live very near Holborn. We had a small Sainsbury's and 'Little Waitrose' - the latter was far more enjoyable, and on some items cheaper! My post work runs tended to end there...!
Definitely agree the Little Waitrose much better than the Sainsburys - despite being smaller it seemed to have a greater range of items - and for a while their multi-buy software paid you to take stuff away - £2 item - '3 for £4' marked down to 50p produced a 50p refund! Happy days.....
Well done to my fellow working class for backing Leave, I see the light now.
Between tax cuts for the rich, cheap NZ lamb and dairy and an extra £350 million per week for tbe NHS there is a lot to look forward to.
Pah. That's a sideshow.
Don't forget Brexit will also mean a reform of our education system resulting in a more highly skilled workforce and an increase in productivity, a correction in the housing market, a reform of our welfare system (including housing benefit), and a lower level of household debt.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I wonder if it is the long rumoured video of Trump using the n word.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
Indeed, I can't believe that anyone in the US would have sat on another Trump scandal video during the campaign.
The conspiracy theorist might say that the Russians have something on him - but they wanted to see him elected first, then brought down with the resulting chaos in the US. As it turned out in practice, if DJT is brought down, Pence and the establishment Republicans will take over and life will carry on.
If there is an 'N Word' video, timing and context will be everything. It wasn't as unacceptable to use that word 20 or 30 years ago, compared to nowadays. If it's from the last decade though, he's in trouble.
I'm still happy with my 1/25 on the inauragration happening as planned on Friday.
Your money is safe. A nice bet.
Whether the 25th amendment will be used at some point in next couple of years is another matter.
Sadly it's only to win a couple of quid, but I quite like dead cert bets like that.
Would have loved to have walked into @Shadsy's place with £250k to win ten grand, to see if he'd have accepted it.
Well done to my fellow working class for backing Leave, I see the light now.
Between tax cuts for the rich, cheap NZ lamb and dairy and an extra £350 million per week for tbe NHS there is a lot to look forward to.
Pah. That's a sideshow.
Don't forget Brexit will also mean a reform of our education system resulting in a more highly skilled workforce and an increase in productivity, a correction in the housing market, a reform of our welfare system (including housing benefit), and a lower level of household debt.
I'm seeing rumours from NBC sources that Buzzfeed/CNN have a Trump video they intend to drop today or tomorrow.
Unless they've got a video of him getting pissed on by Russian hookers or taking a briefcase of cash from Vladimir Putin, CNN are probably best lying low for a few days after embarrassing themselves last week.
I wonder if it is the long rumoured video of Trump using the n word.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
Indeed, I can't believe that anyone in the US would have sat on another Trump scandal video during the campaign.
The conspiracy theorist might say that the Russians have something on him - but they wanted to see him elected first, then brought down with the resulting chaos in the US. As it turned out in practice, if DJT is brought down, Pence and the establishment Republicans will take over and life will carry on.
If there is an 'N Word' video, timing and context will be everything. It wasn't as unacceptable to use that word 20 or 30 years ago, compared to nowadays. If it's from the last decade though, he's in trouble.
I'm still happy with my 1/25 on the inauragration happening as planned on Friday.
As you point out... The Russians surely do not want Trump replaced - he is their best bet for getting sanctions lifted, NATO weakened or even dismantled.
Interesting piece by Don Brind. To be honest the whole process of relaunch seems to me to be desperate and pointless. The public have made their mind up.
Anyway I doubt we should be concerning ourselves with Labour this morning when the PM is about to make one of the biggest political speeches in modern times.
People such as yourselves are supply and demand deniers, so I doubt anything can change your minds, but what is the point of cheap Labour if it doesn't bring down the cost of Labour?
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in some companies is hard to justify, however, keen one is on the free market: there is an element of the bodies that dtermine executive pay scratching each others' backs. And as refined in his later statements (that Government contracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standards, slower wages growth, higher prices and shorter retirements. It is a goal so open that only the most chaotically incompetent leader of the opposition could fail to hit the back of the net. Let's see how your man does.
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
you seem to resent the benefit of wisdom that comes with age
Europhobia was shown by the referendum to be a specifically English psychosis, the narcissistic outcome of a specifically English crisis of identity.
"The referendum vote does not deserve to be respected because, as an outgrowth of English narcissism, it is itself disrespectful of others, of our allies, partners, neighbours, friends, and, in many cases, even relatives. Like resentful ruffians uprooting the new trees in the park and trashing the new play area, 17 million English, the lager louts of Europe, voted for Brexit in an act of geopolitical vandalism."
Was the income cap idea "reaching out beyond his devoted following"?
Maybe it attracted a couple of Greens to the fold. Went down like a cup of cold sick with 90% of the population though.
No, it didn't - polling shows majority approval for it. The gap beteen highest and lowest earners in socontracts will be limited to companies with a declared corporate earnings disparity less than 100:1) it's also feasible, and has the support of the Financial Times among others.
I do agree with Don that a convincing economic narrative is crucial, though, and oppositions getting a hearing at all is non-trivial unless theGovernment is spectacularly screwing up.
Corbyn wasn't mentioned in the question about the wages cap. He was in the one about the NHS. And there's Labour's problem in a nutshell.
Today Theresa May will announce the Billionaire's Brexit. One that will deliver lower public spending, more cuts to corporation tax, reduced employment rights, lower environmental standard
No, the richest voters voted Remain, May is simply not backing down on the border controls most Leave voters want
And those who don't work voted Leave.
In a democracy the vote of someone who is unemployed counts equally with those of a billionaire
True. And the threatened tax cuts will apply to and fill only one of those categories with joy.
The poorest, the working class and the lower middle class voted Leave for border control, not a tax cut
I'm glad you've gone round to ask them all.
Thing is, as Hammo threatened the other day, they may well get a tax cut.
It was immigration which swung the working class and lower middle-class Leave voters behind Leave, only the upper middle-class Leavers were not so concerned about immigration. If border control requires a corporation tax cut, so be it
Yippee!
Edit: still v impressed with your insight into the minds of the working class and lower middle-class. So much for the sovereignty arguments of the bien-pensant Leavers on here, eh?
You cannot reclaim control of borders if you do not have sovereignty anyway, so the two are interchangeable
Well done to my fellow working class for backing Leave, I see the light now.
Between tax cuts for the rich, cheap NZ lamb and dairy and an extra £350 million per week for tbe NHS there is a lot to look forward to.
Pah. That's a sideshow.
Don't forget Brexit will also mean a reform of our education system resulting in a more highly skilled workforce and an increase in productivity, a correction in the housing market, a reform of our welfare system (including housing benefit), and a lower level of household debt.
The thing you linked didn't say anything about immigration either way; Is there something in the original report or is the immigration connection just your intuition?
I might just be 'traditional' roles changing, with more fathers looking after the kids whilst their wives work full-time, or both doing part-time jobs. That's true for me, a couple of friends, and associates of *all* classes.
It's a symptom of many things. Childcare costs might be much more influential than anything to do with immigration.
Wage income per household over time would be an interesting statistic.
I expect that's part of it. The government trying to force people off benefits and into work-any-work may be related, too. It's all random speculation without seeing the actual data, though.
@PaulBrandITV: After dropping out of race to be President of EU Parliament, ITV understands @GuyVerhofstadt could get more powerful Brexit negotiator role
Comments
The supermarkets will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Although that may be more expensive post Brexit.
Quote - "What matters more to them in the short term is being able to stay in business, and they won’t be able to do that without subsidies. This is where Westminster will have to step in, if it is serious about food security".
Wiki says that Zac Goldsmith is the Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds and Stephen Philips of the Manor of Northstead, so I don't see a vacancy yet on which the writ can be moved.
I'd they want the by-election on May 4th they're going to have to hold off the moving of the writ for another ten weeks or so, end of March at the earliest.
No doubt ours is a different world to arable farming.
So far we have been paid our 2016 BPS (Basic Payment Scheme) within a week of the new year - compare the disaster of 2015 where we couldn't get a straight answer out of the RPA (Rural Payments Agency). There seems to be a 17 to 18% uplift on the BPS compared with 2015 - the exchange rate from Euro to Pound is calculated in mid September.
Certainly my livestock is making 20% more than last year.
Yes, we expect something hopefully more like SPS (Single Payment Scheme - Margaret Beckett's great achievement) than BPS to continue after 2020 here in the SDA (Severely Disadvantaged Area - The Land which got the Hill Cow Sub and Hill Sheep Sub in pre EEC days). Deluded - I don't think so although the purchase price for Entitlements is more depressed than in previous years. That probably reflects fury with the BPS and the ridiculous waste of money involved with the implelentation in England (£257M and counting).
Farron says we didn't know what we were voting for when we voted for Brexit. I have yet to meet anyone who voted leave who did not know Leave meant Leave. He might be that stupid - Leave voters were not.
Brexit was one of those two horse races he is always on about. It is about time he accepted that his horse lost.
"British farms have to compete on price because that is what British consumers demand."
Thanks, I have learned to suck eggs finally. My point is that if you were a Lincolnshire worker, it makes sense to vote Leave, it doesn't have to be a mindless, racist opinion.
It may be, but the Remain default is that stupidity drives the Leave decision.
Labour is now in favour of identity politics above all else. Immigrants are disadvantaged, therefore they must be encouraged to come. It's a legitimate view, but it's not the only one.
In Lambeth.
That's what the YouGov showed.
Joking apart it would be interesting to see how Waitrose & Sainsbury shoppers voted when you control for income and location....I suspect's its pretty much of a wash with the rest of the county......interestingly M&S shoppers were almost evenly split - despite being the most expensive of the lot - tho that may reflect an up-age skew....
LOL. If it was that simple, every PB thread at the moment would be much quieter and less fraught!
Thanks for the update from the ground.
I have mixed feelings.. I am not generally in favour of protectionism. Agriculture is one of the few areas where the EU is protectionist. It will have an effect however.
@GuardianAnushka: But also warning on customs union- saying Swedish inquiry found 2000 businesses cited Norway as most difficult county to trade with
There is a reason Norway doesn't have a big car industry...
Additionally most British lamb is exported to Europe, which may soon stop. There was a reason the NFU supported Remain, and farmers are rarely the metropolitan liberal elite. We could have our own systems of support, but these would probably not be permissable under a free trade agreement. We hear less of the million farm jobs lost in Mexico because of US imports than we do of automotive workers because poor Mexican farmers do not have the same lobbying power.
@IsabelHardman: "Massively excited about Donald Trump!" says Paul Nuttall. "It's clear he's an Anglophobe!"
The reason the dollar is so strong is because of his policies.
https://order-order.com/2017/01/12/eu-faces-funding-cliff-edge/
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3778515/MP-awkward-Sharon-Stone-moment-sits-Prime-Minister.html
Mr Trump just had a very, very efficient spread of votes.
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/821272116498755584
There's no reason why we cannot continue to sell into Europe after we leave the EU
I's go for the former.....
Dozens of posts and no one has mentioned the Co Op. They are excellent, I find: a very decent Coeur de Cardeline rosé, in particular.
http://www.breeam.com/index.jsp?id=598
Food standards are a classic NTB. I know Mercosur are keen to get access to UK markets, and they have very different hormone/antibiotic regimes, and at least some of their produce is GM. Still, for some people, cheaper food will be welcome.
PS @Mortimer Congratulations on your Cockerpoo decision, they are wonderful dogs!
Thing is, as Hammo threatened the other day, they may well get a tax cut.
Count me as Leaver now.
Well done to my fellow working class for backing Leave, I see the light now.
If it does exist I think it would have leaked before Election Day.
Edit: still v impressed with your insight into the minds of the working class and lower middle-class. So much for the sovereignty arguments of the bien-pensant Leavers on here, eh?
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/thai-chicken-better-than-most-british-production-says-rspca-2124580.html
Humans working in the chicken factories, not so much.
On the supermarket issue: I used to live very near Holborn. We had a small Sainsbury's and 'Little Waitrose' - the latter was far more enjoyable, and on some items cheaper! My post work runs tended to end there...!
https://twitter.com/bbcbreakfast/status/819801675116388354
And will there be anything in it that hasn't already been given to the papers?
How about some research? Knock yourself out -
niesr.ac.uk/blog/how-small-small-impact-immigration-uk-wages#.WH3fohuLSUk
EDIT: WARNING - THE NIESR IS CHOCK FULL OF EXPERTS.
Glad to see you on board the train.
The EU CET has high tariffs on a wide range of agricultural imports and backs that up with a quota system on things like beef.
It's a complex trade-off. Some UK consumers might benefit, but I wouldn't want to be a hill farmer - that's a marginal business even now.
The conspiracy theorist might say that the Russians have something on him - but they wanted to see him elected first, then brought down with the resulting chaos in the US. As it turned out in practice, if DJT is brought down, Pence and the establishment Republicans will take over and life will carry on.
If there is an 'N Word' video, timing and context will be everything. It wasn't as unacceptable to use that word 20 or 30 years ago, compared to nowadays. If it's from the last decade though, he's in trouble.
I'm still happy with my 1/25 on the inauragration happening as planned on Friday.
Whether the 25th amendment will be used at some point in next couple of years is another matter.
It's a symptom of many things. Childcare costs might be much more influential than anything to do with immigration.
Wage income per household over time would be an interesting statistic.
Europhobia was shown by the referendum to be a specifically English psychosis, the narcissistic outcome of a specifically English crisis of identity.
Don't forget Brexit will also mean a reform of our education system resulting in a more highly skilled workforce and an increase in productivity, a correction in the housing market, a reform of our welfare system (including housing benefit), and a lower level of household debt.
Would have loved to have walked into @Shadsy's place with £250k to win ten grand, to see if he'd have accepted it.
https://twitter.com/Varneyco/status/821035686862135296
I think that's a great bet at 1/25.
Interesting piece by Don Brind. To be honest the whole process of relaunch seems to me to be desperate and pointless. The public have made their mind up.
Anyway I doubt we should be concerning ourselves with Labour this morning when the PM is about to make one of the biggest political speeches in modern times.
People such as yourselves are supply and demand deniers, so I doubt anything can change your minds, but what is the point of cheap Labour if it doesn't bring down the cost of Labour?
This article really is peak Remoan.
And perhaps then, with their psychosis healed, the English will apply to rejoin the EU.
You holding your breath?