politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Five months after the vote and BREXIT is as decisive an issue
Comments
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Too late. We have reached a cloacal peak.steve_garner said:
It was a question not a statement. If we want to treat politicians like crap, we'll get crap politicians.viewcode said:
I am in two minds about this. I like common courtesy and outside of protest or argument or fibbing in a campaign (coughcoughGovecoughcough) there's no real need to be rude, and Pence has the same rights as anybody else to peaceably go about his business unmolested - he hasn't broken the law.steve_garner said:
Not sure why you are laughing. If a politician cannot go to the theatre either with or without his wife without being harangued or booed by the cast or the audience why would anybody of any ability want to be a politician?The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
But the statement "If a politician cannot go to the theatre...without being harangued or booed...why would anybody of any ability want to be a politician?" is somewhat uninformed. Politicians have been booed by theatre audiences for centuries. It comes with the territory.0 -
The Big G is known for his inconsistency.viewcode said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the euro has had it's worst run in years and is expected to reach parity with the dollar next week. Commentators are expecting it to continue it's decline into the year end as the US is expected to increase their interest rates. Is this a real threat for Europe as some are saying or do they have anything they can do to mitigate the fall
Your first point ("...Is this a real threat for Europe...") assumed that a falling euro was bad for the EUBig_G_NorthWales said:Just a point, if the falling euro is good for the EU why do so many remainers say the falling pound is bad for the UK
Your second point ("...if the falling euro is good for the EU...") assumed that a falling euro was good for the EU
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But Donald Trump on twitter said the cast were really rude.... who should I believe?Stark_Dawning said:
You can see what the guy from the cast said here:Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/19/mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton-performance-then-hears-diversity-plea
Seemed perfectly gracious to me.0 -
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?0 -
Thinks.steve_garner said:
It was a question not a statement. If we want to treat politicians like crap, we'll get crap politicians.viewcode said:
I am in two minds about this. I like common courtesy and outside of protest or argument or fibbing in a campaign (coughcoughGovecoughcough) there's no real need to be rude, and Pence has the same rights as anybody else to peaceably go about his business unmolested - he hasn't broken the law.steve_garner said:
Not sure why you are laughing. If a politician cannot go to the theatre either with or without his wife without being harangued or booed by the cast or the audience why would anybody of any ability want to be a politician?The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
But the statement "If a politician cannot go to the theatre...without being harangued or booed...why would anybody of any ability want to be a politician?" is somewhat uninformed. Politicians have been booed by theatre audiences for centuries. It comes with the territory.
But we do get crap politicians. We have done for centuries.0 -
Have any of the people on here who are wringing their hands and weeping bitter tears about the violation of Pence's safe space actually listened to the speech?
Could they point out what passages were actually offensive in it?0 -
The truth is that leavers are so petrified of Brexit turning bad that, rather than just wait and see, they have to try and spin every tiny piece of news and always endeavour to get their rebuttal in first.Gardenwalker said:
The Big G is known for his inconsistency.viewcode said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the euro has had it's worst run in years and is expected to reach parity with the dollar next week. Commentators are expecting it to continue it's decline into the year end as the US is expected to increase their interest rates. Is this a real threat for Europe as some are saying or do they have anything they can do to mitigate the fall
Your first point ("...Is this a real threat for Europe...") assumed that a falling euro was bad for the EUBig_G_NorthWales said:Just a point, if the falling euro is good for the EU why do so many remainers say the falling pound is bad for the UK
Your second point ("...if the falling euro is good for the EU...") assumed that a falling euro was good for the EU0 -
Give over. What do you think this is, the Royal Command Performance circa 1959?Sandpit said:
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?
I seriously doubt it ruined anyone's evening. Indeed, it probably made most people's.
Pence turned up the epicentre of liberal America. A hip hopping musical theatre in New York. And he got a gracious special request when the performance closed.
If you can't handle that, get thee to your safe space.0 -
As indeed do certain 'conservative' types, and many others of all political stripes. The older I get, the more I value it and the more I realise it is so easily discarded by those in power.Sandpit said:Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
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It's the rustling of sweet and crisp packets that gets to me. At least the Lincolns did not have to endure that.Sandpit said:
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?0 -
Perhaps the homophobe Pence learnt something positive about diversity in America.Alistair said:Have any of the people on here who are wringing their hands and weeping bitter tears about the violation of Pence's safe space actually listened to the speech?
Could they point out what passages were actually offensive in it?0 -
Your inability to read and comprehend never ceases to amaze me. Each time I get into a discussion with you I intend never to do it again.Scott_P said:
But you're proposing exactly that.Charles said:Which no one serious does in a serious negotiation.
This is tedious.
We agree extending the deadline is bad.
You think revocation is extension, therefore not allowed
I think revocation resets, not extends the deadline, so could be allowed.
Until the ECJ opines, neither of us will know who is right, although we could have a wager. I have a theoretical £10 of someone else's money to play with.
And as for the "size of your negotiations", I have negotiated exactly the same number of Article 50 invocations as you, so are you done willy waving?
1. No, I'm not proposing "exactly that" [presumably "playing sillyy buggers"]. I'm proposing a tool to extend the deadline.
2. Yes this is tedious
3. Extending the deadline would be good for the UK, and bad for the EU.
4. Revocation is not extension. Revocation and resubmission starts a new 2 year period. Where we disagree is that I believe - based on 20 years experience of negotiations - is that people would not start negotiations from scratch. Consequently, the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole. Hence they did not intend an Article 50 revocation to be possible.
5. I have been in the room for a lot of serious negotiations. I'm not "willy waving". I'm just saying that I have some experience of how people behave in negotiations. I suspect you are spouting shit.0 -
Presumably he was doing his own Hague-at-the-Notting-Hill-Carnival thing.Gardenwalker said:
Give over. What do you think this is, the Royal Command Performance circa 1959?Sandpit said:
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?
I seriously doubt it ruined anyone's evening. Indeed, it probably made most people's.
Pence turned up the epicentre of liberal America. A hip hopping musical theatre in New York. And he got a gracious special request when the performance closed.
If you can't handle that, get thee to your safe space.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/turkey-bill-to-pardon-statutory-rape-if-perpetrators-marry-victi/
Turkey’s governing party has sparked an outcry after putting forward a bill that would pardon up to 3,000 child rapists if the perpetrator married his victim.0 -
Ed Balls of Fire...0
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It's only a loophole if they don't reset the clock.Charles said:people would not start negotiations from scratch. Consequently, the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole.
Again, you're argument is circular.
Extending the clock is bad, so you don't think there should be a mechanism for extending the clock.
There isn't (it's a reset, not an extension), so you're argument that they wouldn't allow an extension fails, because it isn't an extension
And I see you were not done willy waving.
Even more tedious0 -
I think Balls is done with this competition now0
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If NYC is 'liberal', perhaps it's fortunate he didn't visit Washington DC. Its election results look like those of a one-party state: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/district-of-columbiafoxinsoxuk said:
Perhaps the homophobe Pence learnt something positive about diversity in America.Alistair said:Have any of the people on here who are wringing their hands and weeping bitter tears about the violation of Pence's safe space actually listened to the speech?
Could they point out what passages were actually offensive in it?0 -
If you want to believe that the negotiation would start again from scratch then I can't convince you.Scott_P said:
It's only a loophole if they don't reset the clock.Charles said:people would not start negotiations from scratch. Consequently, the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole.
Again, you're argument is circular.
Extending the clock is bad, so you don't think there should be a mechanism for extending the clock.
There isn't (it's a reset, not an extension), so you're argument that they wouldn't allow an extension fails, because it isn't an extension
And I see you were not done willy waving.
Even more tedious
I believe what I believe based on my professional experience.
You believe what you believe based on ?0 -
its not fairCharles said:
If you want to believe that the negotiation would start again from scratch then I can't convince you.Scott_P said:
It's only a loophole if they don't reset the clock.Charles said:people would not start negotiations from scratch. Consequently, the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole.
Again, you're argument is circular.
Extending the clock is bad, so you don't think there should be a mechanism for extending the clock.
There isn't (it's a reset, not an extension), so you're argument that they wouldn't allow an extension fails, because it isn't an extension
And I see you were not done willy waving.
Even more tedious
I believe what I believe based on my professional experience.
You believe what you believe based on ?
I'm going to tell my mum
nobody's being nice to me
etc.0 -
Jeez, this is nothing to to with safe spaces or restricting freedom of speech in public debates.Gardenwalker said:
Give over. What do you think this is, the Royal Command Performance circa 1959?Sandpit said:
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?
I seriously doubt it ruined anyone's evening. Indeed, it probably made most people's.
Pence turned up the epicentre of liberal America. A hip hopping musical theatre in New York. And he got a gracious special request when the performance closed.
If you can't handle that, get thee to your safe space.
It's about respecting the several hundred other people in the theater who have each paid upwards of a hundred dollars to watch the show. Basic manners and human decency, which appear to be disappearing rapidly in modern society.0 -
Midprices
Juppé 3.15
Fillon 3.85
Le Pen 3.8750 -
There are 2 parts, the first of which has been obscured in this "fascinating debate"Charles said:You believe what you believe based on ?
1. Your primary argument is that revocation allows extension, that would be unfair, therefore no revocation. The Article makes no mention of revocation or otherwise, it will be interpreted by the ECJ (if they are asked to opine) and whether it is "fair"or not is irrelevant. What matters is, is it legal? It is foolhardy to predict legal judgements on your perceived version of what might be fair. Ask the Attorney General about the High Court case for an example...
2. Even if you are right, that "serious and skilled negotiators" would not reset the clock, this is the EU we are talking about.
Your arguments do not convince me Article 50 is not revocable. If the ECJ ever opine we will know.0 -
Is this serious ?Scott_P said:0 -
Having the patience of a saint has obviously proved invaluable in the course of your career as a negotiator!Charles said:
If you want to believe that the negotiation would start again from scratch then I can't convince you.Scott_P said:
It's only a loophole if they don't reset the clock.Charles said:people would not start negotiations from scratch. Consequently, the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole.
Again, you're argument is circular.
Extending the clock is bad, so you don't think there should be a mechanism for extending the clock.
There isn't (it's a reset, not an extension), so you're argument that they wouldn't allow an extension fails, because it isn't an extension
And I see you were not done willy waving.
Even more tedious
I believe what I believe based on my professional experience.
You believe what you believe based on ?0 -
Absolute rubbish - the only thing I have done is to move from a eurosceptic remainer to a committed leaver accepting the democratic will of the people. And yes I do want to get on with it as I consider the delaying of A50 will cause more uncertainty and harm the economy.Gardenwalker said:
The Big G is known for his inconsistency.viewcode said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the euro has had it's worst run in years and is expected to reach parity with the dollar next week. Commentators are expecting it to continue it's decline into the year end as the US is expected to increase their interest rates. Is this a real threat for Europe as some are saying or do they have anything they can do to mitigate the fall
Your first point ("...Is this a real threat for Europe...") assumed that a falling euro was bad for the EUBig_G_NorthWales said:Just a point, if the falling euro is good for the EU why do so many remainers say the falling pound is bad for the UK
Your second point ("...if the falling euro is good for the EU...") assumed that a falling euro was good for the EU
As far as the destination is concerned I hope that TM will be able to retain some form of access to the single market but at the same time agree a work permit process where anyone from anywhere can come to the UK to work provided they speak english and have a job and they should be welcomed here.
Furthermore no benefits should be payable for upto 5 years and if the person coming to our Country loses their job they will be required to return home.
And I believe everyone working in the UK at the time of leaving should be permitted to stay and be offered residency after 5 years0 -
That is Charles' argument. I do not agree with him.Alanbrooke said:
its not fair
I'm going to tell my mum
nobody's being nice to me
etc.0 -
Agreed. But if Donald Trump weren't so infantile, he could have kept quiet.Sandpit said:It's about respecting the several hundred other people in the theater who have each paid upwards of a hundred dollars to watch the show. Basic manners and human decency, which appear to be disappearing rapidly in modern society.
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certainly not my experience of CharlesScott_P said:
That is Charles' argument. I do not agree with him.Alanbrooke said:
its not fair
I'm going to tell my mum
nobody's being nice to me
etc.
he argues his corner and is quite happy to agree to disagree
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That is not my primary argument. My argument is nothing to do with "fairness" it is to do with intent. The EU's intention is to create an advantage for themselves in negotiations. Revocation/resubmission would undermine this.Scott_P said:
There are 2 parts, the first of which has been obscured in this "fascinating debate"Charles said:You believe what you believe based on ?
1. Your primary argument is that revocation allows extension, that would be unfair, therefore no revocation. The Article makes no mention of revocation or otherwise, it will be interpreted by the ECJ (if they are asked to opine) and whether it is "fair"or not is irrelevant. What matters is, is it legal? It is foolhardy to predict legal judgements on your perceived version of what might be fair. Ask the Attorney General about the High Court case for an example...
2. Even if you are right, that "serious and skilled negotiators" would not reset the clock, this is the EU we are talking about.
Your arguments do not convince me Article 50 is not revocable. If the ECJ ever opine we will know.
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Charles said:
the EU would not give away a significant advantage by allowing this loophole
That is the bit I was referring toAlanbrooke said:
its not fair
I'm going to tell my mum
nobody's being nice to me
etc.Alanbrooke said:certainly not my experience of Charles
he argues his corner and is quite happy to agree to disagree0 -
There's not a lot to disagree with there. (I'd probably allow 90 days grace to find another job, particularly for higher rate taxpayers.)Big_G_NorthWales said:
Absolute rubbish - the only thing I have done is to move from a eurosceptic remainer to a committed leaver accepting the democratic will of the people. And yes I do want to get on with it as I consider the delaying of A50 will cause more uncertainty and harm the economy.Gardenwalker said:
The Big G is known for his inconsistency.viewcode said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the euro has had it's worst run in years and is expected to reach parity with the dollar next week. Commentators are expecting it to continue it's decline into the year end as the US is expected to increase their interest rates. Is this a real threat for Europe as some are saying or do they have anything they can do to mitigate the fall
Your first point ("...Is this a real threat for Europe...") assumed that a falling euro was bad for the EUBig_G_NorthWales said:Just a point, if the falling euro is good for the EU why do so many remainers say the falling pound is bad for the UK
Your second point ("...if the falling euro is good for the EU...") assumed that a falling euro was good for the EU
As far as the destination is concerned I hope that TM will be able to retain some form of access to the single market but at the same time agree a work permit process where anyone from anywhere can come to the UK to work provided they speak english and have a job and they should be welcomed here.
Furthermore no benefits should be payable for upto 5 years and if the person coming to our Country loses their job they will be required to return home.
And I believe everyone working in the UK at the time of leaving should be permitted to stay and be offered residency after 5 years
Edit to add: and there are a few specialist jobs, like Premier League footballer, where one might want to be flexible on the English skills question...0 -
This is the government's full Supreme Court case in the A50 appeal:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/570778/Supreme_Court_Printed_Case_of_the_Secretary_of_State_for_Exiting_the_European_Union.PDF0 -
The English skills test should just be contextualised for them: i.e. turn it into a long ball tactics test.rcs1000 said:Edit to add: and there are a few specialist jobs, like Premier League footballer, where one might want to be flexible on the English skills question...
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Yep, remember Bataclan?logical_song said:
Worse things have happened in Theatres.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
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Agree with the 90 days and like your football commentrcs1000 said:
There's not a lot to disagree with there. (I'd probably allow 90 days grace to find another job, particularly for higher rate taxpayers.)Big_G_NorthWales said:
Absolute rubbish - the only thing I have done is to move from a eurosceptic remainer to a committed leaver accepting the democratic will of the people. And yes I do want to get on with it as I consider the delaying of A50 will cause more uncertainty and harm the economy.Gardenwalker said:
The Big G is known for his inconsistency.viewcode said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the euro has had it's worst run in years and is expected to reach parity with the dollar next week. Commentators are expecting it to continue it's decline into the year end as the US is expected to increase their interest rates. Is this a real threat for Europe as some are saying or do they have anything they can do to mitigate the fall
Your first point ("...Is this a real threat for Europe...") assumed that a falling euro was bad for the EUBig_G_NorthWales said:Just a point, if the falling euro is good for the EU why do so many remainers say the falling pound is bad for the UK
Your second point ("...if the falling euro is good for the EU...") assumed that a falling euro was good for the EU
As far as the destination is concerned I hope that TM will be able to retain some form of access to the single market but at the same time agree a work permit process where anyone from anywhere can come to the UK to work provided they speak english and have a job and they should be welcomed here.
Furthermore no benefits should be payable for upto 5 years and if the person coming to our Country loses their job they will be required to return home.
And I believe everyone working in the UK at the time of leaving should be permitted to stay and be offered residency after 5 years
Edit to add: and there are a few specialist jobs, like Premier League footballer, where one might want to be flexible on the English skills question...0 -
I think he was referring to LincolnMikeK said:
Yep, remember Bataclan?logical_song said:
Worse things have happened in Theatres.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
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http://www.yescalifornia.org/
The 2019 #Calexit Independence Referendum
In the Spring of 2019, Californians will go to the polls in a historic vote to decide by referendum if California should exit the Union, a #Calexit vote.0 -
I imagine the same people who think it is acceptable to behave boorishly in a theatre are also the same sort of people who think it is fine to pester celebrities for autographs and photos when they are out for a meal with their families.Sandpit said:
Jeez, this is nothing to to with safe spaces or restricting freedom of speech in public debates.Gardenwalker said:
Give over. What do you think this is, the Royal Command Performance circa 1959?Sandpit said:
The preferred etiquette in a theater (sic) is for everyone to sit in silence, perhaps with the occasional clap of the hands where appropriate during the performance. Why should it be in any way acceptable to ruin everyone's (expensive!) evening by disturbing the peace?Gardenwalker said:
Delicate flower.Sandpit said:
The report I saw was that references were made and booing from the audience was evident for most of the performance, before at the end the cast took it upon themselves to publically criticise their guest. That's really not how to treat people enjoying an evening at the theatre.Alistair said:
It happened at the curtain call after the performance.Sandpit said:
I'd be more than a little peeved if, having managed to get the impossible tickets for the hottest Broadway show in town, the performance was punctuated by the cast turning disparagingly on a VIP in the audience.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
That isn't the performance I'd paid to watch, it's not a comedy club.
Safe space safe spaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
Whatever happened to good manners and basic decency? Certain 'liberal' types seem to think that these are things that also belong in the past.
Perhaps someone should have grabbed Pence's pussy instead. Is that more the preferred etiquette these days?
I seriously doubt it ruined anyone's evening. Indeed, it probably made most people's.
Pence turned up the epicentre of liberal America. A hip hopping musical theatre in New York. And he got a gracious special request when the performance closed.
If you can't handle that, get thee to your safe space.
It's about respecting the several hundred other people in the theater who have each paid upwards of a hundred dollars to watch the show. Basic manners and human decency, which appear to be disappearing rapidly in modern society.0 -
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What's wrong with current laws on sweeping?Scott_P said:0 -
That would do wonders for the Republicans in the electoral college in 2020!williamglenn said:http://www.yescalifornia.org/
The 2019 #Calexit Independence Referendum
In the Spring of 2019, Californians will go to the polls in a historic vote to decide by referendum if California should exit the Union, a #Calexit vote.
Edit: That's if the Californians can count the damn ballots in time for the 2020 elections! Grr...0 -
Was this pulled out of the same orifice as most of your posts?logical_song said:
Was that lifted from 'Russia Today'?Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Luckyguy1983 said:
At the risk of boring you with a recitation of fact, it was NATO (for which read America) that brought down Yanukovich (the democratically elected President of Ukraine), using the protests following the declining of the EU association agreement as a trigger. In doing so, they effectively removed from Russia a vitally strategic seaport and would have drastically upset the balance of power on Russia's borders. Depending on where you stand, that's either a brilliant master-stroke, or a dangerous escalation, but it happened, and it was the first move.FF43 said:Dromedary said:
How did you reach the conclusion that Russia is a threat to Europe? Is Germany a threat to Switzerland? Is France a threat to Spain? Is the US a threat to Canada?FF43 said:I am guessing Germany in particular is coming to the conclusion that neither the US or Britain is reliable from their point of view. The US because interests are diverging particularly on Russia, which is a threat to Europe even if the US may not perceive it as a threat to themselves.
What really scares me is how western figures have talked about building some kind of defence line along the eastern borders of the Baltic states. Usually this is mentioned without any reference to Kaliningrad.
A very important point. Being a murderous despot t isn't sufficient to be a threat to the west, although Putin certainly is murderous despot. Carpet bombing your own city as Putin did to Grozny is remarkable. We got on perfectly fine with Saddam Hussein until he stupidly invaded Kuwait. But there are diplomatic norms of behaviour that even murderous despots like Putin are expected to adhere to. These include not invading neighbouring countries because you think it's time to liven up your domestic politics, particularly when these countries border your own.. That's where the threat is. Ukraine is extremely worrying. An EU or NATO member would cross the line.
Russia's response was essentially to do the same thing - use a large discontented populous and through it's own covert and overt support, get back the influence it lost. Again you can approve or disapprove depending on where you stand, but it seems odd to wag the finger at Russian black ops destabilising the region when that's exactly what the US did to create the situation in the first place. You destabilise, foment, terrorise; I aid brave revolutionaries and freedom fighters.0 -
Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=190 -
Remain more popular than both of them.AndyJS said:Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7% 0 -
Isn't less chocolate for the same money what every shrinking chocolate bar has been giving us for the last 40 years? Next up, Brexit responsible for bunions, rain, stepping in dogshit, and junk mail.IanB2 said:
Less chocolate for the same money? I don't recall the Brexit nutjobs ever telling us this would happen?Big_G_NorthWales said:This last week has seen toblerone and maltesers reduce their size but maintain the price due to the currency devaluation.
This has to be a win - win. Keeps inflation in check and reduces the other inflation, obesity.
Positives for Brexit0 -
CNN seems to have stopped updating except for California and doesn't have the latest numbers in many cases.AndyJS said:Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
It might be worth noting that Betfair is using CNN data re popular vote - so it may be important whether CNN ever does update the figures for all other states.
CNN still has Trump on 47.0% - it seems likely that should tick down to 46.9% with more California votes but even so the situation appears a bit unsatisfactory. CNN also only appears to be reporting to one decimal place.0 -
It would also significantly dimininish the USA as a world power .The Presidency itself would,therefore, count for less than hitherto.Sandpit said:
That would do wonders for the Republicans in the electoral college in 2020!williamglenn said:http://www.yescalifornia.org/
The 2019 #Calexit Independence Referendum
In the Spring of 2019, Californians will go to the polls in a historic vote to decide by referendum if California should exit the Union, a #Calexit vote.
Edit: That's if the Californians can count the damn ballots in time for the 2020 elections! Grr...0 -
I notice the fox election centre has now pulled Michigan from its called status and dropped Trump back to 290 votes.MikeL said:
CNN seems to have stopped updating except for California and doesn't have the latest numbers in many cases.AndyJS said:Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
It might be worth noting that Betfair is using CNN data re popular vote - so it may be important whether CNN ever does update the figures for all other states.
CNN still has Trump on 47.0% - it seems likely that should tick down to 46.9% with more California votes but even so the situation appears a bit unsatisfactory. CNN also only appears to be reporting to one decimal place.0 -
Good Evening. The poll numbers in the thread header are limited good news. There still isn't a hint of a shift big enough to suggest Brexit won't happen. The ship remains on course. However there is no sign at all of national consensus. As a passionate europhile I honestly expected the polls to shift towards Brexit after the vote in the same way military action becomes more popular when it begins. We're as patriotic lot as Britain's with a tendency to rally to the cause even if we don't like it.
The fact that all the polling including this one shows the " Remain " core holding up is good news. Firstly it means the generational reunification project starts from a much higher base than we did post war.Secondly it's a significant check and balance on the government if they try and perdue Hard Brexit. Thirdly all those serving politicians who supported the official Leave campaign ( as distinct from Brexit per se ) need to be in political terms ' necklaced ' when the New Jerusalem doesn't arrive and the Mills are as Satanic as ever.
Brexit must mean more than just Brexit.
In a loose sense this is now one battle in a war over the 21st Century. We've lost this battle but as the polling shows it can yet be an orderly and tactical retreat.0 -
Lincoln was Boothed.Alistair said:
I literally can't think of anything worse that has happened to an American politician in a theatre than Pence being booed.logical_song said:
Worse things have happened in Theatres.The_Apocalypse said:Had to laugh at Trump's tweet on the whole hamilton saga. 'The theatre should always be a safe....' Looks like it's not just sections of the left who want a 'safe space' away from opinions they don't like.
(I'll get my coat.)0 -
Osborne was booed at the Paraolympics, but I think he was attending and presenting medals in an official capacity. So, I’d say that was somewhat different, and just about falls under the category of legitimate political dissent & protest.
Pence was attending the theatre as a private citizen, as I understand it.
I’d be interested in Nick Palmer’s opinion, but I think politicians do have a right to a private life in which they can expect not to be embroiled in protest.
My opinion on this would be different if Pence had been carrying out a function connected with his political office. I’d say booing & protest then was fine.
0 -
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The best speech on Europe by a member of parliament since June 23rd ( albeit a #longread ) http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/articles.php/5809/archbishop-justin-welby-on-the-common-good-and-a-shared-vision-for-the-next-century0
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FPT:
It's not a little odd - it's an inconvenient truth. Paid ally and Russian stooge he certainly was, but I have never seen the election that put him in power contested even by the fiercest US cheerleaders.JosiasJessop said:
Given the earlier experience of 2004, saying 'Yanukovich' and 'democratically elected' in the same sentence is a little odd.
Yanukovich is a paid ally and stooge of Russia. You could easily prepend your post with another paragraph stating how Russia was interfering in Ukranian politics earlier on.0 -
LOL. "the election that put him in power"Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
It's not a little odd - it's an inconvenient truth. Paid ally and Russian stooge he certainly was, but I have never seen the election that put him in power contested even by the fiercest US cheerleaders.JosiasJessop said:Given the earlier experience of 2004, saying 'Yanukovich' and 'democratically elected' in the same sentence is a little odd.
Yanukovich is a paid ally and stooge of Russia. You could easily prepend your post with another paragraph stating how Russia was interfering in Ukranian politics earlier on.
And the other one?0 -
‘Too old? Never!’ Alain Juppé’s home city rallies to Le Pen challenger
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/juppe-france-left-face-down-le-pen-formidable?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Trump's experience of 40 years battling the New York Tabloids:
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/800031699115606016
https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/8000217826653184040 -
Ooh, so after another week of counting the final votes, it's going to be close enough that they get count them all again!Alistair said:
I notice the fox election centre has now pulled Michigan from its called status and dropped Trump back to 290 votes.MikeL said:
CNN seems to have stopped updating except for California and doesn't have the latest numbers in many cases.AndyJS said:Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
It might be worth noting that Betfair is using CNN data re popular vote - so it may be important whether CNN ever does update the figures for all other states.
CNN still has Trump on 47.0% - it seems likely that should tick down to 46.9% with more California votes but even so the situation appears a bit unsatisfactory. CNN also only appears to be reporting to one decimal place.
What a mess, especially for those of us who are still waiting for the bookies to pay out!0 -
https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/799822764542541824Alistair said:
I notice the fox election centre has now pulled Michigan from its called status and dropped Trump back to 290 votes.MikeL said:
CNN seems to have stopped updating except for California and doesn't have the latest numbers in many cases.AndyJS said:Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
It might be worth noting that Betfair is using CNN data re popular vote - so it may be important whether CNN ever does update the figures for all other states.
CNN still has Trump on 47.0% - it seems likely that should tick down to 46.9% with more California votes but even so the situation appears a bit unsatisfactory. CNN also only appears to be reporting to one decimal place.
https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/799825553008119809
https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/799826191293161472
Michigan looks safe Trump.0 -
Reasoned argument is too much to expect, I suppose.Luckyguy1983 said:
Was this pulled out of the same orifice as most of your posts?logical_song said:
Was that lifted from 'Russia Today'?Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Luckyguy1983 said:
At the risk of boring you with a recitation of fact, it was NATO (for which read America) that brought down Yanukovich (the democratically elected President of Ukraine), using the protests following the declining of the EU association agreement as a trigger. In doing so, they effectively removed from Russia a vitally strategic seaport and would have drastically upset the balance of power on Russia's borders. Depending on where you stand, that's either a brilliant master-stroke, or a dangerous escalation, but it happened, and it was the first move.FF43 said:Dromedary said:
How did you reach the conclusion that Russia is a threat to Europe? Is Germany a threat to Switzerland? Is France a threat to Spain? Is the US a threat to Canada?FF43 said:I am guessing Germany in particular is coming to the conclusion that neither the US or Britain is reliable from their point of view. The US because interests are diverging particularly on Russia, which is a threat to Europe even if the US may not perceive it as a threat to themselves.
What really scares me is how western figures have talked about building some kind of defence line along the eastern borders of the Baltic states. Usually this is mentioned without any reference to Kaliningrad.
A very important point. Being a murderous despot t isn't sufficient to be a threat to the west, although Putin certainly is murderous despot. Carpet bombing your own city as Putin did to Grozny is remarkable. We got on perfectly fine with Saddam Hussein until he stupidly invaded Kuwait. But there are diplomatic norms of behaviour that even murderous despots like Putin are expected to adhere to. These include not invading neighbouring countries because you think it's time to liven up your domestic politics, particularly when these countries border your own.. That's where the threat is. Ukraine is extremely worrying. An EU or NATO member would cross the line.
Russia's response was essentially to do the same thing - use a large discontented populous and through it's own covert and overt support, get back the influence it lost. Again you can approve or disapprove depending on where you stand, but it seems odd to wag the finger at Russian black ops destabilising the region when that's exactly what the US did to create the situation in the first place. You destabilise, foment, terrorise; I aid brave revolutionaries and freedom fighters.0 -
I believe Hamilton tickets are sold out until Jan 2017, so either Pence booked tickets several months ago for a hip hop extravaganza that's 'an achievement of historical and cultural reimagining' in the heart of Sodom, or he used a bit of 'Hi, this is the VP elect's PA here, we were wondering if some tickets may be available..'YBarddCwsc said:Osborne was booed at the Paraolympics, but I think he was attending and presenting medals in an official capacity. So, I’d say that was somewhat different, and just about falls under the category of legitimate political dissent & protest.
Pence was attending the theatre as a private citizen, as I understand it.
I’d be interested in Nick Palmer’s opinion, but I think politicians do have a right to a private life in which they can expect not to be embroiled in protest.
My opinion on this would be different if Pence had been carrying out a function connected with his political office. I’d say booing & protest then was fine.
The cynic in me thinks that Trumpence won't be entirely heartbroken at the result.0 -
I don't see how betfair would be daft enough to settle on the basis of a website that first bother to update its figures. I am quite sure that Trump is well below 47% and that it will be settled on that basis. I am a bit less certain about the the turnout bet. Seems like the turnout is a bit north of 135 million. But the denominator estimate is about as accurate as a yougov opinion poll and if they were to keep the market open for a year or do the eligible voting estimate could be revised up enough to bring the turnout 58% below again. With hindsight it would have been better to offer a market based on millions of votes but then betting on these USA presidential election is quite new.MikeL said:
CNN seems to have stopped updating except for California and doesn't have the latest numbers in many cases.AndyJS said:Latest:
Clinton 48.0%
Trump 46.7%
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/133Eb4qQmOxNvtesw2hdVns073R68EZx4SfCnP4IGQf8/htmlview?sle=true#gid=19
It might be worth noting that Betfair is using CNN data re popular vote - so it may be important whether CNN ever does update the figures for all other states.
CNN still has Trump on 47.0% - it seems likely that should tick down to 46.9% with more California votes but even so the situation appears a bit unsatisfactory. CNN also only appears to be reporting to one decimal place.0 -
Ha ha, one straight from the Alastair Campbell playbook!Speedy said:Trump's experience of 40 years battling the New York Tabloids:
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/800031699115606016
ttps://twitter.com/asabenn/status/800021782665318404
#BoycottHamilton now has over 250k tweets, with the NY liberals happily joining in by asking if anyone boycotting would be so kind as to give away their tickets!
(For those who don't know, it's been sold out for months, tickets are changing hands for thousands of dollars in NYC).0 -
-1
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Your response was a reasoned argument was it?logical_song said:
Reasoned argument is too much to expect, I suppose.0 -
Indeed - the left go in for pointless amateurish gesture politics at the wrong target and then wonder why they lost by whinging on twitter.Speedy said:Trump's experience of 40 years battling the New York Tabloids:
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/800031699115606016
https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/8000217826653184040 -
The article is better than its moronic title.YellowSubmarine said:‘Too old? Never!’ Alain Juppé’s home city rallies to Le Pen challenger
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/juppe-france-left-face-down-le-pen-formidable?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
But it feels like a report written months ago and only develop the local angle. Yes everybody in France knows Juppe is a great mayor of Bordeaux. But Ayrault was a great mayor of Nantes before becoming the amazingly bad first PM of Hollande.
Juppe's national image is most shaped by two things:
- his long experience as a minister (first time in 1986 all the way to 2012) PM (1995-7). This gives him credibility and gravitas. The obvious problem is that he is by far the oldest candidate and that he is the opposite of political renewal.
- his clear opposition to any deal with the far-right, as all his opponents (except maybe Poisson), and his vision of a "happy identity" view of France as communities living in harmony. He has clearly advocated some appeasement towards Muslim brotherhood-inspired organizations, as long as they advocate non-violence.
The final element is quite beyond his control: He has been chosen by the centre-left as their proxy candidate for an election they know they cannot win. The gives him support his primary opponents cannot get but makes him suspect for more right wing voters.0 -
It's coming to London next year.Sandpit said:
Ha ha, one straight from the Alastair Campbell playbook!Speedy said:Trump's experience of 40 years battling the New York Tabloids:
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/800031699115606016
ttps://twitter.com/asabenn/status/800021782665318404
#BoycottHamilton now has over 250k tweets, with the NY liberals happily joining in by asking if anyone boycotting would be so kind as to give away their tickets!
(For those who don't know, it's been sold out for months, tickets are changing hands for thousands of dollars in NYC).
http://www.hamiltonthemusical.co.uk/0 -
Impressive moves since Tuesday (and the amount matched on Betfair has more than doubled in 3 days. Clearly the market believes in Fillon but not yet in Juppexit.Dromedary said:Midprices
Juppé 3.15
Fillon 3.85
Le Pen 3.875
question FPT: Do you really think Bretbart has an influence in France? I m not sure even 0.5% of the population has ever read a breitbart article. The far-right blogs are widely read but they are home grown IMHO.0 -
Yeah, the pound's always dropping by 20% overnight, I set my watch by it personally...Luckyguy1983 said:
Isn't less chocolate for the same money what every shrinking chocolate bar has been giving us for the last 40 years? Next up, Brexit responsible for bunions, rain, stepping in dogshit, and junk mail.IanB2 said:
Less chocolate for the same money? I don't recall the Brexit nutjobs ever telling us this would happen?Big_G_NorthWales said:This last week has seen toblerone and maltesers reduce their size but maintain the price due to the currency devaluation.
This has to be a win - win. Keeps inflation in check and reduces the other inflation, obesity.
Positives for Brexit0 -
new thread
0 -
Ooh, that might be Mrs Sandpit's birthday sorted out. Thanks!old_labour said:
It's coming to London next year.Sandpit said:
Ha ha, one straight from the Alastair Campbell playbook!Speedy said:Trump's experience of 40 years battling the New York Tabloids:
https://twitter.com/SonnyBunch/status/800031699115606016
ttps://twitter.com/asabenn/status/800021782665318404
#BoycottHamilton now has over 250k tweets, with the NY liberals happily joining in by asking if anyone boycotting would be so kind as to give away their tickets!
(For those who don't know, it's been sold out for months, tickets are changing hands for thousands of dollars in NYC).
http://www.hamiltonthemusical.co.uk/0 -
Not on here he didn't.....another_richard said:
To be fair Cameron hasn't needed to do his own spinning for many years.HurstLlama said:
Why didn't Cameron do a lot things, Mr. Borough? Possibly because he was an arrogant tosser who believed in his own spin. A rich little boy who had always got his own way.rottenborough said:Why the hell didn't Cameron put a threshold of difference on the vote?
There's been no shortage of arselickers willing to do it for him.
What I suspect Cameron has had a shortage of though was people willing to tell him inconvenient truths.0
