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Andy Burnham.....Jeremy Corbyn......who next? Does anyone know Ken's thoughts on Hitler's view of Brexit? If not, I'm sure Faisal Islam will ask.0
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The penny dropsCarlottaVance said:
Not in a United Kingdom - wee Mrs McTurnip is nothing if not transparent....ToryJim said:
Not sure that is constitutionally possible.CarlottaVance said:
This should be good:Alanbrooke said:wee Mrs McTurnip plays a blinder
firstly by pissing off her biggest trading partner and then by insisting the EU will also want a Wallonia on our side of the fence
we will bring forward specific proposals over the next few weeks which would keep Scotland in the single market even if the rest of the UK leaves.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/oct/24/theresa-may-hosts-brexit-summit-for-scottish-welsh-and-northern-irish-governments-politics-live0 -
I think that is just staying true to the 1970's series and earlier books.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Quite possibly historical accuracy too.0 -
WE will see how tough Cruella is when EU knock seven shades of you know what out of her and she gets a second one at home.CarlottaVance said:
Not in a United Kingdom - wee Mrs McTurnip is nothing if not transparent....ToryJim said:
Not sure that is constitutionally possible.CarlottaVance said:
This should be good:Alanbrooke said:wee Mrs McTurnip plays a blinder
firstly by pissing off her biggest trading partner and then by insisting the EU will also want a Wallonia on our side of the fence
we will bring forward specific proposals over the next few weeks which would keep Scotland in the single market even if the rest of the UK leaves.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/oct/24/theresa-may-hosts-brexit-summit-for-scottish-welsh-and-northern-irish-governments-politics-live
Likely to be complete Tory surrender as usual, back waving piece of paper, paying in more money , freedom of movement intact and UK allowed to decide road signs.0 -
Steve Bousquet of "The Tampa Bay Times" reports Florida Republican Gov. Rick Scott failure to stop the extension of voter registration after Hurricane Matthew resulted in 108,000 new names to the roll.
Obama won Florida in 12 by just under 75,000.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/surge-of-post-hurricane-matthew-voters-breaks-100000-mark/22997800 -
Only if it is a hard Brexit ...williamglenn said:
Britain could continue full participation in EDAM - European Deals And Machinations.MTimT said:williamglenn said:
Will it come down to a choice between hard and soft cheese?Jonathan said:
Free European Trade Area. Feta?SeanT said:@faisalislam 2m2 minutes ago
Edward Leigh just asked if it was the PM's end strategy that UK should have a free trade area with the EU - she said yes...
It's gonna be EFTA, but maybe with a different name.
How about BRIE - British Regional Import/Export area.
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''Until the headbangers start whining. Expect the tone at PMQs to be HARDER...''
Its a softish hard Brexit, or a hard Brexit with distinctly soft characteristics.
''Amber, take a look at the Daily Mail today and let me know which way the wind is blowing''0 -
I note your advice and re-read. Mr Davies stated. "Indeed some have argued that the government should allow both Heathrow and Gatwick to expand. That would be a mistake. Allowing two proposals to continue could mean neither is built, as it would be impossible to argue that both runways could be fully used in the next twenty years while meeting our legislated climate change commitments. So the decision could be challenged in the courts."HurstLlama said:
Have you seen his article in today's Telegraph. If that article is indicative of the fellow's depth of thought I seriously question his fitness to be called an expert on anything and God only knows how he achieved a senior position in any organisation.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Howard Davies did advocate the Euro....... Now he advocates Heathrow. Is Davies an expert on either matter?JosiasJessop said:It'd be funny if, after a tortuous and forensic inquiry, the government were to choose something other than H3.
It'd be hilarious if they chose Boris Island. But the inquiry involved experts, and we all know how we're supposed to feel about experts now ...
Clearly Mr Davies does not understand the concept of competition and creating spare capacity and that by allowing two proposals to continue if one falters for a planning or financial problem etc the other can power ahead. Has Gatwick argued that it should be just one choice?
A very statist proposal from Mr Davies with fits in with his past endeavours.
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But not of the millions who support him.619 said:
A) I thought you weren't going to comment?taffys said:
Every article I read on Trump is so harshly dismissive of him and his movement, its impossible to see how the chasms created by the this election can ever be breached.JackW said:Ben Shreckinger of "Politico" looks at Trump's narrow win options as the clock runs down :
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/clinton-trump-election-countdown-polls-230212
There is no attempt whatsoever to understand this phenomenon, what lies behind it and what it might take to bring the millions that will vote for him back onside.
THose that do back Trump can expect no quarter from Hillary, if she wins.
We should be dismissive of racist crazy people like trump who boast about sexual assault
C) 'No Quarter'? Don't be silly. She isn't a vindictive person, unlike 'Texting at 3AM' Trump0 -
The actors refused to do it as planned and had it watered down.JosiasJessop said:
I was expecting a bit if a whitewash, and it was. The book was written in a different time, where what is depicted - and it is not 100% clear - would not have been seen as rape by many people. But it is vital point in the books: it increases animosity between the various lead characters. I'm not sure this version will have quite the same effect.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
Interestingly, the 1970s series is much more faithful to the book.
I have little time for Winston Graham's son's argument: his father also wrote a very dubious scene in Marnie that might not withstand modern views. (An excellent book, BTW, made by Hitchcock into a terrible film).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-377496370 -
If you keep cooking a hard boiled egg it eventually explodes and deposits a foul mess everywhere.taffys said:''Until the headbangers start whining. Expect the tone at PMQs to be HARDER...''
Its a softish hard Brexit, or a hard Brexit with distinctly soft characteristics.
''Amber, take a look at the Daily Mail today and let me know which way the wind is blowing''0 -
I wouldn't be surprised at that.malcolmg said:
The actors refused to do it as planned and had it watered down.JosiasJessop said:
I was expecting a bit if a whitewash, and it was. The book was written in a different time, where what is depicted - and it is not 100% clear - would not have been seen as rape by many people. But it is vital point in the books: it increases animosity between the various lead characters. I'm not sure this version will have quite the same effect.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
Interestingly, the 1970s series is much more faithful to the book.
I have little time for Winston Graham's son's argument: his father also wrote a very dubious scene in Marnie that might not withstand modern views. (An excellent book, BTW, made by Hitchcock into a terrible film).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-377496370 -
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.0 -
I had considered a cheese-themed Brexit analysis.
I came to the conclusion that the government's position was either Stilton (blue-veined and crumbly to the touch) or Emmental (hard, Swiss in origin and full of holes).0 -
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.0 -
Mr. T, revisionism is bullshit. Imposing modern norms on old or ancient works is bastardising history.0
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North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
It's much less explicitly rape than what happens in the book or, in fact, the original series (well worth watching, and as least as good as the current series. Also worth watching for the much-missed Angharad Rees).SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Marnie features full-on rape, even if only in a modern context and under somewhat unusual circumstances. So Winston Graham knew what he was doing.
I've read the books many times, and from what I remember the Poldark-Elizabeth scene is very well written in a way that leaves what happens in some doubt, at least by the mores of the time. It's also vital for future plotlines.0 -
That's the post-election rationalisation sorted. It was '50 states of Trump' that swung it.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.0 -
Wed better get rid of Shakespeare's histories then.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, revisionism is bullshit. Imposing modern norms on old or ancient works is bastardising history.
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Very good. Surprised you did not come up with raclette - hard but melts into a sticky mess under heat.AlastairMeeks said:I had considered a cheese-themed Brexit analysis.
I came to the conclusion that the government's position was either Stilton (blue-veined and crumbly to the touch) or Emmental (hard, Swiss in origin and full of holes).0 -
Mr. Jonathan, did Shakespeare rewrite Caesar's Gallic Wars to suit Elizabethan sensibilities?
Shakespeare wrote his own stuff [or with Marlowe, as you like it]. He didn't bugger up Thucydides because 16th century Londoners didn't like the way the Peloponnesian War was going.0 -
Do you mean by that fiction written some time ago, or recently-written fiction about historical periods?Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.0 -
@DanHodges: Tory poll average rises to 12 points - highest this parliament - as Theresa May's post-conference implosion continues...0
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No. She's been married before, to Poldark's now-deceased cousin, and has a son. She is about to marry his great enemy Warleggan. My view is that the rape is Poldark's way of getting vengeance on Warleggan before the wedding; it is a power over her and Warleggan. In fact, it's more of a power than he realises (will not say more for spoilers).MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
(Snip)
Although it's made more complex in the books and series by the fact they were once betrothed to each other before her first marriage, and still hold a fondness for each other.0 -
Finally we might actually get a decision on Heathrow, but unfortunately this is just the start of the process of planning, enquiries and appeals before a spade goes near the ground. We need to just get on with it, starting yesterday.0
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Of course Shakespeare (re)wrote history to suit his audience's tastes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, did Shakespeare rewrite Caesar's Gallic Wars to suit Elizabethan sensibilities?
Shakespeare wrote his own stuff [or with Marlowe, as you like it]. He didn't bugger up Thucydides because 16th century Londoners didn't like the way the Peloponnesian War was going.0 -
Have to say my gf was quite titillated watching the scene.SeanT said:
Because, of course, women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION. 0 -
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
@MTimT In the end I abandoned the idea quite early through lack of time and because it was ultimately too frivolous. One compensation of having very limited time is that I have to make sure that my thread headers actually say the thing I most think worth saying at the time, because otherwise good ideas will go beyond their post-by date.0
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Recently-written fiction about historical periods. Older fiction would either ignore the subject, or refer to it obliquely unless dealing with much older periods (at least in English-speaking countries, where censorship was stringent. Hence, my bowdlerised version of the Three Musketeers) .MTimT said:
Do you mean by that fiction written some time ago, or recently-written fiction about historical periods?Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.0 -
@BBCNormanS: No 10 confirm there will be no vote on Theresa May's Brexit debates0
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For the Maymoaners: WTF do you expect her to do?
a) Rule no.1 of negotiation is not to show your hand.
b) If rule no.1 is violated and May lists her demands, every Eurocrat from here to Bucharest will say "absolutely no chance they're going to get that" while simultaneously refusing to engage with UK until A50 invoked
c) Currency and markets tank some more; Sturgeon sticks her crowbar in the machine every 15 minutes; Corbyn looks slightly less of a joke
d) Months pass, in which political and economic chaos in UK worsens
e) A50 invoked, negotiations start on back foot
f) Worse result for UK ensues; whole world laughs at the UK
g) Civil war in which Scotland turned into radioactive wasteland. Tourism improves.
Brilliant. Just f*cking brilliant.0 -
LOL! Quite entertaining reading all the posts (and Scott's frantic shares of Faisal's frantic tweets) telling us how appalling everything is for TM and the government...CarlottaVance said:@DanHodges: Tory poll average rises to 12 points - highest this parliament - as Theresa May's post-conference implosion continues...
While their poll rise show's no sign of stopping...
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PPP: Among early voters in N.C., "63% say they cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton to only 37% for Donald Trump" https://t.co/HWJGyrXRMY0
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Well, can we tell david duke to fuck off?Luckyguy1983 said:
But not of the millions who support him.619 said:
A) I thought you weren't going to comment?taffys said:
Every article I read on Trump is so harshly dismissive of him and his movement, its impossible to see how the chasms created by the this election can ever be breached.JackW said:Ben Shreckinger of "Politico" looks at Trump's narrow win options as the clock runs down :
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/clinton-trump-election-countdown-polls-230212
There is no attempt whatsoever to understand this phenomenon, what lies behind it and what it might take to bring the millions that will vote for him back onside.
THose that do back Trump can expect no quarter from Hillary, if she wins. We should be dismissive of racist crazy people like trump who boast about sexual assault
C) 'No Quarter'? Don't be silly. She isn't a vindictive person, unlike 'Texting at 3AM' Trump0 -
White Stilton with Cranberries:MTimT said:
Very good. Surprised you did not come up with raclette - hard but melts into a sticky mess under heat.AlastairMeeks said:I had considered a cheese-themed Brexit analysis.
I came to the conclusion that the government's position was either Stilton (blue-veined and crumbly to the touch) or Emmental (hard, Swiss in origin and full of holes).
From the East of England, with some novelty value, but disappointing and full of purple fruits.0 -
As noted this morning, the crowds are whooping and cheering as the Emperor passes...GIN1138 said:LOL! Quite entertaining reading all the posts (and Scott's frantic shares of Faisal's frantic tweets) telling us how appalling everything is for TM and the government...
While their poll rise show's no sign of stopping...
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Your point would have merit if (1) it was a taxpayer funded project where such a strategic approach could be taken whatever the local economics, and (2) it was not illegal under current environmental legislation.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I note your advice and re-read. Mr Davies stated. "Indeed some have argued that the government should allow both Heathrow and Gatwick to expand. That would be a mistake. Allowing two proposals to continue could mean neither is built, as it would be impossible to argue that both runways could be fully used in the next twenty years while meeting our legislated climate change commitments. So the decision could be challenged in the courts."HurstLlama said:
Have you seen his article in today's Telegraph. If that article is indicative of the fellow's depth of thought I seriously question his fitness to be called an expert on anything and God only knows how he achieved a senior position in any organisation.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Howard Davies did advocate the Euro....... Now he advocates Heathrow. Is Davies an expert on either matter?JosiasJessop said:It'd be funny if, after a tortuous and forensic inquiry, the government were to choose something other than H3.
It'd be hilarious if they chose Boris Island. But the inquiry involved experts, and we all know how we're supposed to feel about experts now ...
Clearly Mr Davies does not understand the concept of competition and creating spare capacity and that by allowing two proposals to continue if one falters for a planning or financial problem etc the other can power ahead. Has Gatwick argued that it should be just one choice?
A very statist proposal from Mr Davies with fits in with his past endeavours.0 -
Books like Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty Trilogy (in which the heroine is forced into sexual slavery and abused by a succession of men and women) Diane Gabaldon's Highlander series (in which the hero rapes the heroine, and is raped in turn by an evil English officer) and Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel novels (where the heroine is a kind of high priestess of BDSM) have sold tens of millions of copies.SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.0 -
Possibly of some use as reference.
Via: https://bankunderground.co.uk/2016/10/18/bitesize-mapping-the-uks-trade/
"The two images below are based on import and export data for the UK’s top 25 trading partners for the first five months of 2016. The bigger the country appears on the map, the more of the UK’s exports (imports) they account for. Countries outside the top 25 are shaded grey."
Exports
Imports
Obviously we'd like to boost opportunities in less habitual areas, but it's a good starter to highlight where we'll need our initial agreements
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To be honest, money is likely to be the balancing factor.Morris_Dancer said:On free trade: any deal requires EU agreement (probably QMV). The EU will want us to have a worse deal, so there may well be strings attached. Particularly depends on whether nation-states have the whip hand, or the bureaucracy of Brussels. The former would be more helpful to us.
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No, most people are just getting on with their lives and waiting for TM and the government to invoke A50 in March.Scott_P said:
As noted this morning, the crowds are whooping and cheering as the Emperor passes...GIN1138 said:LOL! Quite entertaining reading all the posts (and Scott's frantic shares of Faisal's frantic tweets) telling us how appalling everything is for TM and the government...
While their poll rise show's no sign of stopping...
Cheer up. Two months today it's Christmas Eve! 0 -
The country has tuned out. They had enough of 'politics' in the past year - a General Election and a referendum - in both cases they gave clear answers and its up to the politicians to get on with the job......that Mrs May seems a sensible sort....lets see how she does, as for that old socialist running labour......GIN1138 said:
LOL! Quite entertaining reading all the posts (and Scott's frantic shares of Faisal's frantic tweets) telling us how appalling everything is for TM and the government...CarlottaVance said:@DanHodges: Tory poll average rises to 12 points - highest this parliament - as Theresa May's post-conference implosion continues...
While their poll rise show's no sign of stopping...0 -
The three musketeers is a very strange book in many ways.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
The early voting numbers in the poll are also encouraging for Clinton.619 said:
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
Re a and b and rule 1 -- How does negotiation work if neither party tells the other what it wants?Anorak said:For the Maymoaners: WTF do you expect her to do?
a) Rule no.1 of negotiation is not to show your hand.
b) If rule no.1 is violated and May lists her demands, every Eurocrat from here to Bucharest will say "absolutely no chance they're going to get that" while simultaneously refusing to engage with UK until A50 invoked
c) Currency and markets tank some more; Sturgeon sticks her crowbar in the machine every 15 minutes; Corbyn looks slightly less of a joke
d) Months pass, in which political and economic chaos in UK worsens
e) A50 invoked, negotiations start on back foot
f) Worse result for UK ensues; whole world laughs at the UK
g) Civil war in which Scotland turned into radioactive wasteland. Tourism improves.
Brilliant. Just f*cking brilliant.
Might I recommend a good book on the subject -- The Art of the Deal, by Donald J Trump.0 -
Wow. I hope Rubio has a strong ground game for his sake, although the dnc pulled out as the polls tightened.JackW said:Steve Bousquet of "The Tampa Bay Times" reports Florida Republican Gov. Rick Scott failure to stop the extension of voter registration after Hurricane Matthew resulted in 108,000 new names to the roll.
Obama won Florida in 12 by just under 75,000.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/surge-of-post-hurricane-matthew-voters-breaks-100000-mark/22997800 -
I assume you're being obtuse, because "showing your hand" is a long way from laying your cards down one at a time, at the appropriate time.DecrepitJohnL said:
Re a and b and rule 1 -- How does negotiation work if neither party tells the other what it wants?Anorak said:For the Maymoaners: WTF do you expect her to do?
a) Rule no.1 of negotiation is not to show your hand.
b) If rule no.1 is violated and May lists her demands, every Eurocrat from here to Bucharest will say "absolutely no chance they're going to get that" while simultaneously refusing to engage with UK until A50 invoked
c) Currency and markets tank some more; Sturgeon sticks her crowbar in the machine every 15 minutes; Corbyn looks slightly less of a joke
d) Months pass, in which political and economic chaos in UK worsens
e) A50 invoked, negotiations start on back foot
f) Worse result for UK ensues; whole world laughs at the UK
g) Civil war in which Scotland turned into radioactive wasteland. Tourism improves.
Brilliant. Just f*cking brilliant.
Might I recommend a good book on the subject -- The Art of the Deal, by Donald J Trump.
If not, I'd very much like to invite you to a poker game.0 -
You list your demands. What you do not do is list your fallback position.Anorak said:
I assume your being obtuse, because "showing your hand" is a long way from laying your cards down one at a time, at the appropriate time.DecrepitJohnL said:
Re a and b and rule 1 -- How does negotiation work if neither party tells the other what it wants?Anorak said:For the Maymoaners: WTF do you expect her to do?
a) Rule no.1 of negotiation is not to show your hand.
b) If rule no.1 is violated and May lists her demands, every Eurocrat from here to Bucharest will say "absolutely no chance they're going to get that" while simultaneously refusing to engage with UK until A50 invoked
c) Currency and markets tank some more; Sturgeon sticks her crowbar in the machine every 15 minutes; Corbyn looks slightly less of a joke
d) Months pass, in which political and economic chaos in UK worsens
e) A50 invoked, negotiations start on back foot
f) Worse result for UK ensues; whole world laughs at the UK
g) Civil war in which Scotland turned into radioactive wasteland. Tourism improves.
Brilliant. Just f*cking brilliant.
Might I recommend a good book on the subject -- The Art of the Deal, by Donald J Trump.
If not, I'd very much like to invite you to a poker game.0 -
I always think of Dogtanian from the CBBC version I watched as a kid. Quite enjoyed that series.Alistair said:
The three musketeers is a very strange book in many ways.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
Not read it, but isn't the central point about 50 Shades of Grey that it's entirely consensual?SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
0 -
Of course he did put the spin on history that his clients wanted. Shakespeare was the biggest Tudor propagandist going (at least that we know about). He was also, along with the Victorian sentimentalists, the biggest provider of myths that have become accepted in British society.Jonathan said:
Of course Shakespeare (re)wrote history to suit his audience's tastes.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, did Shakespeare rewrite Caesar's Gallic Wars to suit Elizabethan sensibilities?
Shakespeare wrote his own stuff [or with Marlowe, as you like it]. He didn't bugger up Thucydides because 16th century Londoners didn't like the way the Peloponnesian War was going.0 -
They skip the bit in the book where the Musketeers act as gigolos from the cartoon.Pulpstar said:
I always think of Dogtanian from the CBBC version I watched as a kid. Quite enjoyed that series.Alistair said:
The three musketeers is a very strange book in many ways.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
In a rational negotiation, perhaps, but only at an appropriate time of your choosing.DecrepitJohnL said:
You list your demands. What you do not do is list your fallback position.Anorak said:
I assume your being obtuse, because "showing your hand" is a long way from laying your cards down one at a time, at the appropriate time.DecrepitJohnL said:
Re a and b and rule 1 -- How does negotiation work if neither party tells the other what it wants?Anorak said:For the Maymoaners: WTF do you expect her to do?
a) Rule no.1 of negotiation is not to show your hand.
b) If rule no.1 is violated and May lists her demands, every Eurocrat from here to Bucharest will say "absolutely no chance they're going to get that" while simultaneously refusing to engage with UK until A50 invoked
c) Currency and markets tank some more; Sturgeon sticks her crowbar in the machine every 15 minutes; Corbyn looks slightly less of a joke
d) Months pass, in which political and economic chaos in UK worsens
e) A50 invoked, negotiations start on back foot
f) Worse result for UK ensues; whole world laughs at the UK
g) Civil war in which Scotland turned into radioactive wasteland. Tourism improves.
Brilliant. Just f*cking brilliant.
Might I recommend a good book on the subject -- The Art of the Deal, by Donald J Trump.
If not, I'd very much like to invite you to a poker game.
A list of demands submitted into an intensely political and irrational negotiation, months ahead of time, is borderline suicidal. Unfortunately for all concerned "intensely political and irrational" will characterise the brexit talks from start to finish.0 -
The reality and the fantasy are very different though, just as the nymphomanic happy hooker is from the trafficked and abused teenager. We read novels of murders, robbers and torture too. The problem come when those who cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality start behaving like fictional characters.SeanT said:
I think "consensual rape" - if we can call it that (and many do) - is popular with quite a few women for two reasons.Sean_F said:
Books like Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty Trilogy (in which the heroine is forced into sexual slavery and abused by a succession of men and women) Diane Gabaldon's Highlander series (in which the hero rapes the heroine, and is raped in turn by an evil English officer) and Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel novels (where the heroine is a kind of high priestess of BDSM) have sold tens of millions of copies.SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
1. It means they don't need to feel shame or regard themselves as sluts for having wanted sex, the choice was taken from them. Though of course they did want sex, secretly.
2. It means the women is SO irresistible a handsome alpha male (and it's always an alpha male, never a wimp) was literally unable to control himself in her presence. A massive turn-on.0 -
Mr. Jonathan, writing new works and altering existing works are fundamentally different things.0
-
And, so many such books are written by women, for a mainly female readership.SeanT said:
I think "consensual rape" - if we can call it that (and many do) - is popular with quite a few women for two reasons.Sean_F said:
Books like Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty Trilogy (in which the heroine is forced into sexual slavery and abused by a succession of men and women) Diane Gabaldon's Highlander series (in which the hero rapes the heroine, and is raped in turn by an evil English officer) and Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel novels (where the heroine is a kind of high priestess of BDSM) have sold tens of millions of copies.SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
1. It means they don't need to feel shame or regard themselves as sluts for having wanted sex, the choice was taken from them. Though of course they did want sex, secretly.
2. It means the women is SO irresistible a handsome alpha male (and it's always an alpha male, never a wimp) was literally unable to control himself in her presence. A massive turn-on.0 -
Fair enough. As any normal man would do, I refused my wife permission to buy the book when she requested it.SeanT said:
No. Famously the line is blurred several times. And blurring is being generous to Mr Gray.SouthamObserver said:
Not read it, but isn't the central point about 50 Shades of Grey that it's entirely consensual?SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
0 -
It's nice to have some certainty in British politics right now....Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, no. It isn't.
Corbyn was a disaster a year ago. He is a disaster now. In a year, he will still be a disaster.0 -
How can they be allowed to poll those already voted?JackW said:
The early voting numbers in the poll are also encouraging for Clinton.619 said:
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
Really? The worst I've ever experienced, even when the saucepan has boiled completely dry, is a small black mark on the white of the egg.williamglenn said:
If you keep cooking a hard boiled egg it eventually explodes and deposits a foul mess everywhere.taffys said:''Until the headbangers start whining. Expect the tone at PMQs to be HARDER...''
Its a softish hard Brexit, or a hard Brexit with distinctly soft characteristics.
''Amber, take a look at the Daily Mail today and let me know which way the wind is blowing''0 -
Back in my day they even censored Shakespeare in books for schools. The entire scene with the porter did not appear in the version of the Scottish Play that my school issued.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
The God awful DIane Abbott's voice and responce in the commons on child refugees.
Labour really are in trouble if this is the best for this very important position in politics.0 -
By all means tell anyone to fuck off, but basing your campaign on how ghastly some people are seems like a dangerous move to me.619 said:
Well, can we tell david duke to fuck off?Luckyguy1983 said:
But not of the millions who support him.619 said:
A) I thought you weren't going to comment?taffys said:
Every article I read on Trump is so harshly dismissive of him and his movement, its impossible to see how the chasms created by the this election can ever be breached.JackW said:Ben Shreckinger of "Politico" looks at Trump's narrow win options as the clock runs down :
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/clinton-trump-election-countdown-polls-230212
There is no attempt whatsoever to understand this phenomenon, what lies behind it and what it might take to bring the millions that will vote for him back onside.
THose that do back Trump can expect no quarter from Hillary, if she wins. We should be dismissive of racist crazy people like trump who boast about sexual assault
C) 'No Quarter'? Don't be silly. She isn't a vindictive person, unlike 'Texting at 3AM' Trump0 -
why not? exit polls are allowed after all.nunu said:
How can they be allowed to poll those already voted?JackW said:
The early voting numbers in the poll are also encouraging for Clinton.619 said:
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
Mr. Llama, that's a good scene.
Wine both provoketh and unprovoketh, for it provoketh the desire and unprovoketh the performance [or suchlike].0 -
What always puzzled me is why people called musketeers only ever seemed to fight with swords.Alistair said:
The three musketeers is a very strange book in many ways.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Rules are alot looser in the USA about reporting in/of polls than they are here.nunu said:
How can they be allowed to poll those already voted?JackW said:
The early voting numbers in the poll are also encouraging for Clinton.619 said:
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
SeanT said:
I would hope you gave her a sound, over-the-knee spanking for even thinking of buying it.SouthamObserver said:
Fair enough. As any normal man would do, I refused my wife permission to buy the book when she requested it.SeanT said:
No. Famously the line is blurred several times. And blurring is being generous to Mr Gray.SouthamObserver said:
Not read it, but isn't the central point about 50 Shades of Grey that it's entirely consensual?SeanT said:
Because, of course, a lot of women fantasize about forced and submissive sex endlessly, though the Guardianista feminists would deny this til they die. The handsome dominant man who roughly takes what he wants, from the faintly resisting but secretly excited woman, is a huge turn-on.Sean_F said:
Rape is enormously popular in historical romantic fiction.MTimT said:
My (admittedly fuzzy) recollection from the original series what that it was in a 'droit de seigneur' context. Was that the case this time too?SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....
Of course, that sort of thing is unacceptable now, but I am not sure I agree that actors should re-write either history or historical fiction (or indeed art) just to conform with today's mores. Part of knowing who we are (and the progress we have made as a society) is knowing what we were.
Fifty Shades of Grey sold 100m copies. ONE HUNDRED MILLION.
0 -
The unmissable Election Data analyses UKIP's local by-election performance:
http://election-data.co.uk/ukip-the-local-by-election-evidence0 -
You clearly have not had the joy of trashing a friends microwave by putting in six eggs during a house party.Chris said:
Really? The worst I've ever experienced, even when the saucepan has boiled completely dry, is a small black mark on the white of the egg.williamglenn said:
If you keep cooking a hard boiled egg it eventually explodes and deposits a foul mess everywhere.taffys said:''Until the headbangers start whining. Expect the tone at PMQs to be HARDER...''
Its a softish hard Brexit, or a hard Brexit with distinctly soft characteristics.
''Amber, take a look at the Daily Mail today and let me know which way the wind is blowing''
Happy days...
[As CDs are practically dead and gone these days, you can also entertain the children by fixing one vertically on some blutac, then microwaving it. The coruscation of sparks across the surface is pretty cool. Ventilated area recommended. Also google microwaving grapes and plasma. Umm, I think I need to get out a bit more.]0 -
Didn't the telegraph over the weekend have an article that basically said only London has the banking infrastructure banks want and need.SeanT said:Something for the Brexiteers. The idea of a London banking exodus is nuts. 10,000 will leave, not 75,000
10,000 is nothing, and could be made up in a couple of years by more biz ex-EU
http://www.politico.eu/newsletter/morning-exchange/politico-morning-exchange-presented-by-ge-brexit-bluff-citys-faux-pas-money-for-nothing/
I'm sure some people will move to Frankfurt and Paris. those people who are not as required as they believe they are will be given the opportunity to further their career in a European backwater while being led to believe its a great promotion.
And London as a whole will continue as before with little bits of work down elsewhere.0 -
It's disturbing to read some of the stuff Scott Adams is coming out with now:619 said:
"Democrats generally use guns to commit crimes. Republican use guns for sport and for self-defense."
Is it meant to be funny, or what?0 -
Exit polls cannot be released until voting has ended in a given state. The early voters data is based on whether the voters concerned are registered Democrats or Republicans.619 said:
why not? exit polls are allowed after all.nunu said:
How can they be allowed to poll those already voted?JackW said:
The early voting numbers in the poll are also encouraging for Clinton.619 said:
Trump needs NC. I don't think he has led in any polls there since the Convention...JackW said:North Carolina - PPP - Sample 875 - 21-23 Oct
Clinton 49 .. Trump 46
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_102416.pdf0 -
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.0 -
That is some exceptionally shy Trumpers in NC.0
-
He lost the plot a while ago. The stuff he spouted about Proposition 8(?) was eyebrow-raising to say the least.Chris said:
It's disturbing to read some of the stuff Scott Adams is coming out with now:619 said:
"Democrats generally use guns to commit crimes. Republican use guns for sport and for self-defense."
Is it meant to be funny, or what?0 -
Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.
"looking at" <> any chance of moving at all
0 -
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectProject/status/790593379750912000/photo/1
Wow if the AA vote continues like that he is surely screwed.0 -
Mary Whitehouse was campaigning for the Miller's Tale to be removed from school curricula when I was a lad.HurstLlama said:
Back in my day they even censored Shakespeare in books for schools. The entire scene with the porter did not appear in the version of the Scottish Play that my school issued.Sean_F said:
I was very surprised when I re-read The Three Musketeers a couple of years ago, to discover that D'Artganan is a rapist. That section was completely censored from the version that I read in my school library.SeanT said:
It was quite shocking. Not only was the great hero, Ross Poldark, unfaithful to the lovely Demelza, he possibly did it with a rape, or something close.Pulpstar said:Big news of the day seems to be an episode of Poldark apparently.
I'd call that brave scriptwriting. Or suicidal. Next Sunday's viewing figures will reveal....0 -
It's meant to cause a reaction that Adams can then belittle you for having as he didn't really say the thing you are accusing him of saying.Chris said:
It's disturbing to read some of the stuff Scott Adams is coming out with now:619 said:
"Democrats generally use guns to commit crimes. Republican use guns for sport and for self-defense."
Is it meant to be funny, or what?
See also all his previous posts for examples.0 -
Such as their entire regulatory structure.eek said:
And London as a whole will continue as before with little bits of work down elsewhere.SeanT said:Something for the Brexiteers. The idea of a London banking exodus is nuts. 10,000 will leave, not 75,000
10,000 is nothing, and could be made up in a couple of years by more biz ex-EU
http://www.politico.eu/newsletter/morning-exchange/politico-morning-exchange-presented-by-ge-brexit-bluff-citys-faux-pas-money-for-nothing/0 -
From the conversation, I'd guess it was way more than evens that there'd be a move of some sort (80%+ chance as a guess). The proportion of staff was entirely dependent on what happened to passporting.MarkHopkins said:Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.
"looking at" <> any chance of moving at all0 -
Miss JGP, reloading times in that era were horrendous, so you'd probably get off just the one shot then use your sword.
Good afternoon.
Mr. Anorak, doesn't that create cyanide?
Mr. Anorak(2), Barcelona was founded by Hannibal's father, Hamilcar [it's contested, but a nice idea].0 -
Wise words.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Llama, that's a good scene.
Wine both provoketh and unprovoketh, for it provoketh the desire and unprovoketh the performance [or suchlike].0 -
I have to say any banker looking to set up in a separatist region needs to get their head examined.Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.0 -
''I have to say any banker looking to set up in a separatist region needs to get their head examined. ''
Should Scotland's bankers be nervous?0 -
They won't go to Barcelona. Dublin is the most likely candidate.SeanT said:
I'm sure some will go but if we are nimble in our flexible, post-EU future, we will be able to attract others. e.g. official euro clearing will surely shift to the EU (tho this was likely long term, anyway); at the same time we will be able to strike down some of the anti-biz EU laws (bonuses anyone?) making London more alluring.Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.0 -
It doesn't work like a poker game because politics is about buying off interests. Theresa May talks tough on Brexit, not to gain negotiating power, but to pander to her party interest groups. May's supposed Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement (BATNA) is Hard Brexit and isn't a Best Alternative at all. The EU's BATNA is a Hard Brexit that doesn't damage their own special interests too much. I don't think the EU side is inherently more sensible than our lot, but they are sitting pretty on this negotiation, while May deals with the contradictions of her negotiating positions.Anorak said:
In a rational negotiation, perhaps, but only at an appropriate time of your choosing.DecrepitJohnL said:
You list your demands. What you do not do is list your fallback position.
A list of demands submitted into an intensely political and irrational negotiation, months ahead of time, is borderline suicidal. Unfortunately for all concerned "intensely political and irrational" will characterise the brexit talks from start to finish.
0 -
The passporting regime is more like passporting regimes. Some haven't come in yet.Anorak said:
From the conversation, I'd guess it was way more than evens that there'd be a move of some sort (80%+ chance as a guess). The proportion of staff was entirely dependent on what happened to passporting.MarkHopkins said:Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.
"looking at" <> any chance of moving at all0 -
To be fair, she had a point.Sean_F said:Mary Whitehouse was campaigning for the Miller's Tale to be removed from school curricula when I was a lad.
0 -
So did the Miller.Richard_Nabavi said:
To be fair, she had a point.Sean_F said:Mary Whitehouse was campaigning for the Miller's Tale to be removed from school curricula when I was a lad.
0 -
Thank you, that is fascinating. Muskets were quite large, weren't they? Did they just throw away the musket after the shot if no time to reload? It would be hard to engage in a sword fight with a musket strapped to your back, wouldn't it?Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, reloading times in that era were horrendous, so you'd probably get off just the one shot then use your sword.
(snipped)-1 -
Well it depends on the solution, some people think banks could capitalise small subsidiaries /post boxes in Dublin and route trades via a server room. Others believe around 10% of the City could decamp.SeanT said:
If this business went to Dublin, I reckon most London bankers would find a way to commute.MaxPB said:
They won't go to Barcelona. Dublin is the most likely candidate.SeanT said:
I'm sure some will go but if we are nimble in our flexible, post-EU future, we will be able to attract others. e.g. official euro clearing will surely shift to the EU (tho this was likely long term, anyway); at the same time we will be able to strike down some of the anti-biz EU laws (bonuses anyone?) making London more alluring.Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.0 -
Carlotta/Alanbroke
Do you consider that it is just possible that the First Minister has thought about these things more deeply than you pair.
It is obvious that she has more of a worked out plan than the Prime Minister.0 -
I think that you do need to allow for the fact that the top echelons are often not British. French bankers may well like Paris or Geneva, German ones may like Frankfurt etc. It is the British commuters who are less linguistically skilled and more easily replaced.SeanT said:
Yes, every potential EU rival to London has major problems (on top of lacking the ecosystem and financial infrastructure)MaxPB said:
I have to say any banker looking to set up in a separatist region needs to get their head examined.Anorak said:
The banker I talked to suggested his firm was looking at setting up in Barcelona, as one of the few sensible places where a London financier would happily relocate to.SeanT said:Interestingly, that politico story downthead echoes the views I heard from that ultra-rich birthday party I went to. The Brexiteering financiers and billionaires reckoned the banks were bluffing: "no one wants to live in Frankfurt, or even Paris. Most will stay."
Hmm.
Dublin: provincial, rainy
Paris: speak French, anti-business laws, security issues
Frankfurt: boring, speak German
Luxembourg: incredibly boring
Amsterdam: small town, too many canals, smells of herring
As others have written it's possible that if Hard Brexit is a disaster for the City, a lot of the business will go to NYC or Hong Kong/Singapore, and/or simply disappear altogether
In reality the main thing preventing a mass exodus from London is inertia, and the need for office space and infrastructure in their new site. It is far more likely that there will be a rundown by natural wastage and gradual job transfers rather than a mass movement.
My cousin who works in artificial intelligence for automated trading moved to the Continent this summer and seems quite happy, but I think the move was planned pre-Brexit.0 -
How does a 'worked out plan' prioritise 15% of Scotland's trade over 60% of it?scotslass said:Carlotta/Alanbroke
Do you consider that it is just possible that the First Minister has thought about these things more deeply than you pair.
It is obvious that she has more of a worked out plan than the Prime Minister.
How does a 'worked out plan' pay for moving from a Union that puts money into Scotland, to one that will take money out of Scotland?
Do tell......0
